19/8/2012 Paignton to Dartmouth Railway. A4 Bittern stalls climbing to Churston from Paignton with Class 25 banking on the rear. Further assistance required from P&DR `s 7827 Lydham Manor.
Yes I was very lucky to get that shot. I had seen bittern at Whiteball and drove to Churston to try and get it there. Having waited 20 minutes I decided I had missed it. Went back to the car and was just getting in anmd heard it chattering up the hill. Legged it back to the bridge to get the sequence you saw here.
Great catch! Not often you catch a train rolling back down the hill. Never understand why they don't roster a more capable locomotive like Goliath to help whenever they have these long express trains visiting just as a standard practice. I've can count at least 5 occasions off the top of my head where Pacifics have stalled on this railway.
Hi. Yes very lucky. Seems to be a trait of three cylinder pacifics they suffer from wheel slip. A lot of power with low adhesion weight. The bullied pacifics had the same problem. However at this spot there seemed to be a track geometry problem or something as everything seem to slip there.
This is the reason there was only the one Pacific on the GWR , Great Bear I believe? There just isn’t sufficient traction on the more challenging sections of the GWR for a Pacific to perform satisfactorily!
As a the owner of AMERICA’S MALLARD, seeing Bittern in GARTER BLUE staling is heartbreaking as GARTER BLUE is a express livery. Seldom to expresses on the main stall, but I can see where a heritage railway can cause stalls with a heavy rake behind the tender.
Yes these things do happen . Three cylinder Pacific's are notoriously light footed however. As, so are wonderful speedster so. That train had come the 100 miles from Bristol and done a grand job as it still does today. But faced with that climb and not being able to take a run at it did cause the unfortunate stall. Thanks for your comment.
My guy, A4 Pacifics were built to run on flat raid beds Not inclines, Sir Gresley designed every one of his locomotives with utmost care and precision.
Greasy rails indeed, good effort by the cls 25 driver to keep going but a sulzer type 2 trying to push a a4 plus mk1 coaches is a big ask. Even the manor was having to fight for adhesion.
Pannier tank L94 managed 7 coaches with no banking engine assistance up this bank. Goes to show it's not how much power but how effectively it can be applied.
The tank probably had comparable power to the 25 on the back? (I'm guessing, I don't know much about steam). It seems like the A4 and 25 ought to have had plenty if both were in decent condition.
1,2,3.. 1,2,3..1,2,3...chuffs away with a 3 cylinder engine, with the 2 working the hardest. The middle cylinder was the achillies heal of these locos, but what a sound. The Americans mostly kept to the two.
Early 1900s we had pretty many. New Haven and Union Pacific though kept them on while the other roads converted the 3 cylinders back to 2. The UP 9000 actually have Gresley Valve gear and one is preserved but not operational. The others used Joy valve gear on the inside and walschaerts valve gear on the outside.
When I looked at this and heard that diesel rattling at the back , I just sensed it was a waste of time to be used to push that A3 , obviosly fully loaded being a celebrity status engine , my first thaughts were , push it with a 9f , in the end it was a 4-6-0 that pushed Bittern , full load and that ineffectual diesel heap up the hill .
Go figure it takes a GWR sure footed loco to save the day! GWR and LMS locos can dig into a good gradient. LNER locos are more about speed not digging in to keep speed. Gresleys locos always seem exceedingly slippery.
Taking an A4 with 12 coaches up 1 in 60 is inevitably going to have problems. But surely that was the point of the whole exercise? Where's the fun in just puffing straight to the top?
Reminds me of stalling up Shap on the way from Glasgow around 1965 on a holiday weekend special to Morcambe. Surely this gradient is nothing in comparison!
The driver on the 25 was doing the best he could but the track was slippy and canted. On a good rail a 25 would easily have shifted it, but even the Manor was slipping so there was evidently a problem. Maybe a tamper could sort the track out
![แล้วแต่เวรแต่กรรม-ครูศรีหนุ่ม [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Xide0fkAS8g/mqdefault.jpg)
That pusher stream locomotive looked spectacular.
Yes I was very lucky to get that shot. I had seen bittern at Whiteball and drove to Churston to try and get it there. Having waited 20 minutes I decided I had missed it. Went back to the car and was just getting in anmd heard it chattering up the hill. Legged it back to the bridge to get the sequence you saw here.
Great video. Reminds me of some of The Railway Series stories!
I was thinking exactly the same thing
You can definitely hear the wheelslips during the loco’s attempts! 😏
Great catch! Not often you catch a train rolling back down the hill.
Never understand why they don't roster a more capable locomotive like Goliath to help whenever they have these long express trains visiting just as a standard practice.
I've can count at least 5 occasions off the top of my head where Pacifics have stalled on this railway.
Hi. Yes very lucky. Seems to be a trait of three cylinder pacifics they suffer from wheel slip. A lot of power with low adhesion weight. The bullied pacifics had the same problem. However at this spot there seemed to be a track geometry problem or something as everything seem to slip there.
Shoulda used a Deltic
@@Choober65 should have had a king upfront. The A4s reputation is based on one of them going very fast downhill.
This is the reason there was only the one Pacific on the GWR , Great Bear I believe? There just isn’t sufficient traction on the more challenging sections of the GWR for a Pacific to perform satisfactorily!
Thanks for sharing this!
I have 3 A4 models including the Bittern. What a sorry sight and embarrassment for the LNER in GWR territory !
As a the owner of AMERICA’S MALLARD, seeing Bittern in GARTER BLUE staling is heartbreaking as GARTER BLUE is a express livery. Seldom to expresses on the main stall, but I can see where a heritage railway can cause stalls with a heavy rake behind the tender.
Yes these things do happen . Three cylinder Pacific's are notoriously light footed however. As, so are wonderful speedster so. That train had come the 100 miles from Bristol and done a grand job as it still does today. But faced with that climb and not being able to take a run at it did cause the unfortunate stall. Thanks for your comment.
Pity the A4 driver didn't get the regulator open more quickly after each slip, it seemed to take a long time to reapply power.
I agree.
As I said befor LNER all show and no go? And had to get a push from a GWR Manor class.
With no locomotive exchange in the 1920s there would be no A4s as the LNER pacific at that point were significantly out classed by the Castle class.
A4 isn't really designed for climbing big hills, more for the flat ECML. GWR Manor couldn't run non stop London to Edinburgh!
And a Rat !! Love that Silzer sound .😁👍
My guy, A4 Pacifics were built to run on flat raid beds
Not inclines, Sir Gresley designed every one of his locomotives with utmost care and precision.
Bittern should be lucky though this wasn't lickey. I've heard the lickey incline is the steepest in Britain.
Greasy rails indeed, good effort by the cls 25 driver to keep going but a sulzer type 2 trying to push a a4 plus mk1 coaches is a big ask. Even the manor was having to fight for adhesion.
they need to get rid of the 25 and get something a bit more powerful like a 37/47 esp with the gradients they have.
@@vikingsmb BR and GWR had a 40MPH limit on that section of the line.
Pannier tank L94 managed 7 coaches with no banking engine assistance up this bank. Goes to show it's not how much power but how effectively it can be applied.
The tank probably had comparable power to the 25 on the back? (I'm guessing, I don't know much about steam). It seems like the A4 and 25 ought to have had plenty if both were in decent condition.
1,2,3.. 1,2,3..1,2,3...chuffs away with a 3 cylinder engine, with the 2 working the hardest. The middle cylinder was the achillies heal of these locos, but what a sound. The Americans mostly kept to the two.
Early 1900s we had pretty many. New Haven and Union Pacific though kept them on while the other roads converted the 3 cylinders back to 2. The UP 9000 actually have Gresley Valve gear and one is preserved but not operational. The others used Joy valve gear on the inside and walschaerts valve gear on the outside.
When I looked at this and heard that diesel rattling at the back , I just sensed it was a waste of time to be used to push that A3 , obviosly fully loaded being a celebrity status engine , my first thaughts were , push it with a 9f , in the end it was a 4-6-0 that pushed Bittern , full load and that ineffectual diesel heap up the hill .
bittern:bear
the diesel:henry
Was that diesel really not enough to help?
STILL doing better than modern shite.
Go figure it takes a GWR sure footed loco to save the day! GWR and LMS locos can dig into a good gradient. LNER locos are more about speed not digging in to keep speed. Gresleys locos always seem exceedingly slippery.
Taking an A4 with 12 coaches up 1 in 60 is inevitably going to have problems. But surely that was the point of the whole exercise? Where's the fun in just puffing straight to the top?
Whoever planned the loading of that engine with all those carriages knowing of that incline ought to be sacked! Painful to watch.
pity they didnt have an s160 then
Reminds me of stalling up Shap on the way from Glasgow around 1965 on a holiday weekend special to Morcambe. Surely this gradient is nothing in comparison!
This gradient is considerably worst. 25mph run up and tight curves all played apart here.
Why do they send out grossly under powered engines? Hell The pusher couldn't get up the hill on its own if it had to.
ya masuk akal tidak bagiku gandengan trlalu panjang itu berarti maksa kekuatan
That Diesel simply is not pushing! My old lawnmower would do better!
The driver on the 25 was doing the best he could but the track was slippy and canted. On a good rail a 25 would easily have shifted it, but even the Manor was slipping so there was evidently a problem. Maybe a tamper could sort the track out
@@philbartlett7898 didnt the old rat sound good. Love the Baby Sulzer. 😁👍
I have no idea who the crews are, but their not doing a good job
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