Outdated Headgear and Left-handed Salutes with the British Army in Menorca- "What's In A Painting?"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ส.ค. 2024
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~~Video Description~~
What's in a painting? Well as it turns out, an awful lot! Even just a single piece of artwork can provide us with all sorts of amazing insights into history. So in this video, I thought I'd explore one of my favourites, portraying the 25th Regiment of Foot (and others) on the island of Menorca!
~~Sources & Further Reading On This Topic~~
Find the painting at the National Army Museum website: collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.p...
Read more about Chiesa here: www.radnorshire-fine-arts.co....
And of course, you can find all of the books I reference provided as free PDFs at my website!
www.nativeoak.org/library/
~~Other Links & Contact Info~~
`Find a free digital library, shop for merchandise, and learn more about this channel's charity work at: ` www.nativeoak.org/
You can directly support my work by becoming a Patron of this channel:
` / brandonf
You may also give a one-time tip here:
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And of course you can follow me on Facebook and Instagram!
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` / brandonfisichella
~~Timestamps~~
Intro 00:00
Background 02:13
The Grenadiers 04:50
Sponsor Message 09:20
Saluting 11:50
Officers Footwear 17:02
The Guard & Drill 17:48
Concluding Notes 22:21
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.79[1/2] แก๊งไทบ้านพาบุกเมืองบั้งไฟโก้ ยโสธรรรร!!!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ldr3_fvTEXk/mqdefault.jpg)
Brandon is a detail nerd, why I respect him.
The double hand tuck seems like an 18th century version of standing around with your hands in you pockets
E6 mafia transcends time and place
The grenadier of the 11th Foot is off duty. It was customary for soldiers off duty to carry their sidearms, but not their firelock. That crook-of-the-elbow carry shows up in many officer portraits. When General Gage ordered that soldiers off duty were not to carry their sidearms in Boston in 1774-75 was, according to Lt. Barker, resented by the men.
Another interesting aspect of the painting is how the men of the guard are carrying at shoulder, with the firelock parallel to the body, and at a 90° angle to the ground, with the butt as low as the length of the arm would allow.
As a guy with short arms, I found support one of the least comfortable carries. The extra stability provided by tucking the hand into the waistcoat made it a little more bearable.
Please do the other Minorca paintings, and don't spare the detail or feel you have to keep it short. You are doing very good work.
A grenadier screws up and as punishment gets placed on guard duty and ends up having himself immortalized in a painting.
The bloke in the miter cap reminds me of when I joined up. The army was in the process of changing uniforms, so folks in training were still in the old gear, but when you got to battalion you got the new gear, as new stuff came in. My first tasking was providing security for a G8 summit, where I was wearing the new uniform, other than the bush cap. I had an old style forager cap, which stuck out like a sore thumb.
Mind I ask which military you were in? I saw much the same in the US military through the early 2000s. I think by the time I joined the US Marine Reserves in 2008 the USMC had transferred fully to the digital camouflage but the other services were still in transition and there were plenty of photos of troops wearing both uniforms. Also in my own unit I saw during a ball where the dress code was Class A/Dress Blues, a few Marines were wearing Service A (the "business suit" uniform). Turned those guys had gone to boot camp during the time when dress blues weren't issued at boot camp which happened periodically. Ironically as reservist we're issued two sets of dress blues as we do a lot of ceremonial duties.
Heck even more recently recruits in basic training had to wear FROG (fire resistant organization gear; meant to be worn on deployment) uniforms for a brief time due to the shortage of regular uniforms from COVID supply chain issues.
@@SEAZNDragon Canadian. I arrived in my battalion in 2002, as we were going from Vietnam era olive drab uniforms to digital.
FWIW in the British army it was still correct to give a left-handed salute right through the 1860s (and probably beyond) if the officer was approaching on your left. It's right there in black and white in the Field Exercise drill manual of the time.
I can confirm that it also applies as of "Infantry Drill 1896" that my late Victorian group uses
The order stopping them went out in August 1918.
The fact that you managed to sneak that sponsor without me expecting it , you win Mr F , you win.
I REALLY want to see a crossover video of Brandon and Bernadette Banner. They’d be awesome together!
I've caught some of Bernadette's videos. What a sweetheart! AND a VERY talented young lady!
@@wayneantoniazzi2706 agreed! Don’t you think Brandon and Bernadette would go well together?
@@randomname1251 Absolutely! "A match made in Heaven!" as the old saying goes.
You know, Bernadette brings out the old Italian grandfather in me, as in:
"Wassamatta that girl? She's young, she's smart, she's-a good-lookin', how come she's a-no married yet?" 🤣
Now do a video on doggos in the 18th century British army. They're all good boys, Brandon!
Brandon you sure love your details and accuracy and I commend you on that
Outdated gear is just as common today, we were running around in fatigues in two different camos from the 90s, had cold weather gear in mid 00s camo while officially the army adopted a whole new pattern in the meantime nobody ever saw except on some of the show ponies or top brass. Signals was pretty low on the refitting priority list.
Yes, I'd love to see more "painting reviews". Frankly, all the lady Butler's paintings would be great. There are also a lot of sketches from the Napoleonic Wars that are very interesting
Appreciate you explaining "contemporary." I often see people use to mean "modern,"or something current.
13:13 that is quite a… jaunty position on the left. Less “Sir!” And more “Sirrr~”
Saluting in the British Army keeps evolving. In Northern Ireland we carried our SLR's with the butt on our right hip with the barrel in the air, if you were saluting you dropped it to your left and gripped the stock with your left hand then raised it again.
The mountrd cavalry salute by bringing their sword from the slope to the carry, or if they are already at the carry, to the slope, then the carry.
I could star at 18th century paintings for hours. I was just talking with another regiment about saluting officers earlier today.
Pet dogs are still a common sight in British barracks. And not just in married quarters either. Both my sons (serving in different regiments of the Royal Armoured Corps) have several dogs (amongst other pets) living in their blocks. It’s apparently not uncommon for them to escort their owners to the workplace either.
When USAAF 8th Air Force personnel began arriving in Britain in 1942 and were sharing bases with the RAF they were suprised at how many dogs were around. Pleasantly surprised! Hey, most of those American kids were dog lovers themselves.
You've got to hand it to the Brits, they love their dogs and say to hell with those who don't!
3:52 So that is where the expression "having a filed day" comes from. Live and learn.
interesting. only Brandon would notice all these small details
22.00 You can also see their shadows - demonstrating clearly the gap between their heels
If you did a series like this I’d watch every episode.
You're doing good dude, been watching you for a few months now I think, appreciate all your hard work 🙌
Hello Brandon. You painted a good picture of the details. The sort of thing I loved when making and painting model figures. I liked later uniform descriptions as they were more definite and less vague, though would have been interesting if putting a model army together for pre revolutionary period.
A very interesting video of a very interesting painting! That's a good talk you gave Brandon but allow me to be a bit of a wet blanket. While there's things we can learn from the painting we have to assume the artist got all the details right. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I can see him observing various units and troops around the island and furiously sketching away with paper and pencil and then heading back to the studio and:
"OK, just what was that fellow wearing and what was on that fellows cap and how was that fellow standing and..." while he tries to get the memory straight. Unless of course he was contracted to do the painting (s) and just had to go with what was there, uniforms in a state of flux as the individual components showed up when they did.
One thing that jumped out at me was the single-masted lugger in the harbor (right over the lieutenant colonel's head) flying a Union Jack instead of the proper Red Ensign. But then a lot of artists got ships flags wrong in those days.
Anyway, it really isn't worth losing sleep over. The paint's a fine time capsule by an artist who was there and thought what he was seeing should be preserved for posterity. We've got to give him credit for that!
Oh, than as now there certainly was going to be a time lag in changing from one uniform style to another. In the present day US Army I believe there's a grace period of two or three years for the change to be completed. If there's any US Army veterans out there feel free to correct me if needed. I was in the Marines and except for the utility uniform (fatigues to you others) we hardly ever change. A Marine from WW2 for example would instantly recognize one from today in his Dress Blues or Service "A" uniform.
I love when something is written I history as "the done thing" and you can just tell that it was written down because the opposite was what actually happened. I expect plenty of soldiers tried to see officers as little as possible
Great video, would love to see more like it. I like British uniforms.
18:00 short version is, when you’re arranging a squad for maximum “snap and pop” as we used to say, everyone is arranged by height. So this soldier is the right guide (that’s a whole other thing that’s an equally plausible explanation for his presence but much longer) because he’s tall and whoever arranged this parade was trying to make it look really good.
With the hand in the waistcoat, I wear overshirts a lot, and it’s very comfortable to rest my thumbs in between the buttons similar to what is portrayed in the painting. I imagine a large part of it is resting their arms. Aswell as being fashionable and looking cool.
I definitely would love to hear of more paintings and story pictured by them. Especially since I would have trouble to determine who among the artists of the paintings I saw had any clue at all about what they're trying to show. It would also be nice to learn some practical bits of knowledge of life back then, if they're at all present on a painting.
I love this content specifically! I want to know more about the etiquette of military units of the day. The idea of using grace and showing manners that would be reserved more so for nobility rather than conformity to a set bureaucratic standard is fascinating and even a bit inspiring.
Nice job Brandon as always
A minefield of saluting clangers ,making desertion desirable.
I love the color in those Chiesa pieces!
I like the idea of branching out into covering other forms of media. I will be right here to watch no matter what you chose to talk about. Excellent video. Keep up the exceptional work.
Do a part two. Really you should make this a series. Maybe 3 or 4 videos a year or something
The grenadier as part of the guard detail.
I wonder if each company was expected to supply one man for the detail.
When I was doing perimeter guard at Camp Bastion, that is basically what happened. Each unit on camp provided one individual to the detail rather than the whole detail coming from one unit. I suspect something similar is happening here.
Brandon has such classy and effortless swag n rizz.
Always fascinating stuff Brandon! I always like to learn about new artists and I like Giuseppe Chiesa's work.
Brandon, sir I love the way you do your ads. This is informative and entertaining 👏 👍
This was fascinating, I demand more painting reviews, please :)
I really enjoyed this format ... though I've also really enjoyed your other formats too.
Wonderful!
I have to say, that "sloppiness", if we can call it that, somewhat appears even in modern military. It mostly depends on the situation, and most of the time you can only see it in small details. A good example of this is the constant battle that some SgtMajs have with some junior enlisted, and even some NCOs, on how fadded some of their cammies are in the Marine Corps. Most of the time they wear it like that because they like to look like they're salty because usually the cammies fade due to the sun, which means you've been going to the field, or working outside rather than in an office. In other words, it's a symbol of experience.
On the topic of the etiquette of the soldiers on the right, I can agree from my own experience, that it's natural for soldiers to not act as robots. I'm part of my local scout troop, and whenever the seniors, or their superior officers are preoccupied, most recruits will instantly break their posture to strike up conversations, or move their weight on to one leg to ease the pain of standing, in a maneuver which we call "placing the jack". Other times, even in the presence of their superiors, many recruits would attempt to look around and keep their mind preoccupied, in an attempt to not fall asleep while in the ranks. Over time, we manage to decrease the frequency of this happening, but it's still quite a common occurrence among the rank and file, and even some junior officers for that matter. Even though the army is much more strict that the Scouts or the Cadets, I'de take a guess that those officers would still have to deal with a fraction of what we have to deal with.
Brendan, where did you access that pen and ink drawing at the beginning of the video?
Those are sketches by Philip James de Loutherbourg, who was responsible many very well detailed pieces featuring the army and army life.
Excellent observations by everyone.....especially about a squad of new recruits overseen by a Grenadier guard from the previous "watch"...perhaps? Brilliant thought.
Otherwise, the transition period between the waistbelt and double cross belt systems is obvious in one of the landscape paintings you showed where both systems are seen....as still seen in Revere's Boston Massacre engraving. I think everyone notices and appreciates these difference when "interpreting" (ie. living history, research, miniatures, movies, new historical art, antique collection items etc....) the difference between the 7 Years' War, 1760's transitions, "early Rev War", "Middle Rev. War". "Late Rev. War", Saratoga and Southern Campaigns, and perhaps even Frontier duty modifications for hatchets?
We might note that a Cartridge box and it's belt is not required for every day dress unless accompanied by a musket. To allow a bayonet or sword as a side arm is reasonable when in uniform for most occasions...(except digging trenches for example)..but a cartridge box (especially with ammunition) might only be allowed when under arms (with musket) or unarmed parade.
We notice no "haversacks" or canteens in the paintings because it is merely a guard/parade occasion and not campaign/combat.
Saluting is a symbolic gesture of a gentleman/soldier removing one's felt hat in the presence of authority, which had developed an entire culture of etiquette in the 17th cent....notably in the court of Louis XIV, but is entirely impractical with a miter or bearskin etc...especially under arms....so a mimicking hand gesture is adopted with various differences in different situations, nationalities and eras.....(many countries' sailor's eventually turned their filthy tar covered hands inward for example). The original 17th cent. felt hats were large flatish brimmed "Swedish Caviler hats" but were quickly made with a turned up front brim and later PINCHED on the corners (the beginnings of the later true cocked hats) which primarily allowed for the facility of new (more efficient) drill movements required for the transition from matchlock to flintlock.......but of course also developed new etiquette details for a cocked hat salute.
Tucked hands in the waistcoat to relieve fatigue (a little) in that "support arms" movement?
Excellent approach Brandon! Thank you!
Ken
Was going to add that the motion of the hat being lifted as a salute also anciently comes from the act of a knight lifting his visor to a superior (expressed somewhat when a "knight", "Duke", "Prince", etc...and KING are depicted on various coats of arms with that rank some lesser ranks showing an "open" visor, front-view and side-views). These are not depicted by accident.
Also, consider the obligation of removing one's hat in a Christian cathedral (except often the King himself, royal family, granted exclusions ...and guards ON DUTY.
Ken
Mr Beat recommended this channel.
Nice jacket. Love the charcoal.
Please do more
Brandon, we’re the foot guards a really elite regiment. And if not, who were the elites of the elites (I’m not talking about flanker regiments) of the British empire?
This is a very good question! I've actually decided to make a video on this topic. Keep an eye out for it in the next few days! Thanks for the suggestion!
@@BrandonFBecause for example like in empire total war, they depict the foot-guards as the elites. As that what happens in most games.
As historian of uniformology I must tell contemporary paintings and drawings are a treasure. Interestingly it's not that much about famous academic painters - sometimes the most valuable sources were drawn by common people and even children.
You have done many The Patriot reviews now we need a Napoleon review!
It’s crap.
There. Reveiew done. 😉
I think the grenadier on the right of the line is there to return the other grenadiers that have been relieved to their barracks. The grenadier officer appears to be handing his relief officer the daily guard duties. The battalion guard looks to be new recruits since they look exactly alike and show some lack of discipline. The two other officers may be there to observe how the change is done.
On the matter of stuffing your hand in your waistcoat, I've done that because it supports your arm while holding your firelock for long periods of time.
I dont know if it is still *current* UK military practice, but as late as WWII, British and Commonwealth regulations directed that, if your right hand was incapacitated or properly (i.e., something duty related, not merely holding a cigarette) occupied, you were to salute with the *left* hand.
I really dig that jacket.
One thing in to be a little careful with is that some of the units in the region at the time were in fact Hanoverian and they wore very similar but slightly different uniforms to the british.
I'm in the US army and the discrepancies in the uniforms make sense, at least from my modern perspective. Unit commanders will often times authorize minor changed to the uniform to make their troops stand out among the rest. I've had units buy baseball caps for soldiers to wear in uniform and I've seen others require soldiers wear their dress uniform beret in their normal duty uniform. soldiers assigned to cavalry units are allowed to wear cowboy hats to represent their historic role, which serves much the same purpose as the infantry hangers the grenadiers carried. There are also different boot types authorized and soldiers can earn the right to wear spurs, or various tabs and badges that denote training they've recieved. If all these men are from different units, i could see various officers making changes to their mens uniforms so they would stand out among the crowds of other soldiers
And then as you walk by , really assert your presence but mogging the officer when he finally notices you
I'd guess that this was a composite painting. The actual scene portrayed didn't happen but it's made up from a selection of sketches made by the artist, probably over a period of time, so you end up with a bit of a Mish mash of different outfits
Talking about specific details like this, I actually have a question for you Brandon. I’ve noticed a lot of drums from the Napoleonic wars are colored somewhat oddly. Some are just a tan color with whatever the regiments facing color is on the tops and bottoms, others have intricate designs along the side of them, and others still are randomly colored. In some cases, mainly the French army, I’ve even seen several drums from different regiments with the same colors. Do you by chance know anything about this? Was it just a Colonel’s or higher ranking officer’s preference? Was it a standard that certain companies, battalions, and even regiments had certain designs? If you do know any place where I can learn about this, I’d love to know!
Yes do a video on unprofessional Victorian era drill that would be interesting.
What were the punishments for failure to salute an officer? I want to see a video on that. (And more like this, analysing paintings, &c.)
Eyes right was officially performed with the left hand until, IIRC 1917
I'd like to learn more about the actual drill used at the time
I just made my first bearskin ❤
Here's a question about this sort of thing. In paintings of Napoleonic cavalry charges (Eylau, Friedland, Waterloo etc) every cavalryman is in a perfect uniform. Were these men truly this well equipped at all times? I have read about cuirassier breastplates being used for cooking so surely on campaign these were not well kept, right?
21:55 - the shadows clearly show that their heels aren't together.
Given how hot that part of the world gets in summer, those heavy wool uniforms must have been uncomfortable.
can u review the mini series Washington
Why is a grenadier included in the guard? From the 17th to mid-19th centuries, regiments were made up of 10 companies: 8 Battalion companies and 2 flank companies (1 of grenadiers and 1 of light infantry). Could the guard consist of one member of each company, one of which is the grenadier company? It would fit with the 10-man guard.
I was 20 years in the army. I don´t know if I ever had all equipment acording to regulation. I am kind of supriced that of dutiy soldiers didn´t do more private modification of their uniforms.
I have always operated under the interpretation that he has been assigned to that battalion company because they wanted a grenader to upgrade the company for some deficiency. It's more common to put a light infantry man in a battalion Company for that purpose. I was thinking for whatever the deficiency was they brought in a grenadeader.
It's a painting made about Menorca, they probably went together to the beach and then he returned to the wrong barracks because he was completely drunk.
have we found an example of ye olde 'Generative Automata Intelect'?
In the US Navy aviators will salute with their left hand when they are ready for launch on the right catapult
13:33 **slap** "What side was that, Private Pyle!?"
are you a actual historian or just a huge fan of history?
Is it “Regiment OF foot” or “Regiment Afoot?”
Regiment of foot
What is up with that ship behind Mr. Lefty with three triangular sails in a row?
It appears to me to be a single-masted lugger, typically used as a cargo ship or as a tender for the larger ships BUT, the artist has the wrong flag on it. The lugger's flying a straight Union Jack, it SHOULD be flying (or in proper terminology "wearing" a Red Ensign, a Unon Jack in the upper left corner as you face it with the remainder of the flag red.
@@wayneantoniazzi2706
A very helpful comment, Wayne!
I have an interest in one lugger -
see Wikipedia's "Hired armed lugger Duke of York".
It states
the DoY was under the command of Benjamin Sparrow.
Benjamin was always the name of the eldest boy
in my mother's Sparrow family.
They lived in South Devon,
not far from Plymouth,
and were farmers with access to the sea.
They were also quarryowners at Cattedown and Oreston
with quays for ships and barges,
supplying 4.5 million tons of limestone
to build Plymouth Breakwater from 1812-1841,
and sending stone as far as Malaya.
I can find no information
on the Duke of York's Benjamin Sparrow,
but am hopeful
that one day an expert on Napoleonic war luggers
will cross my path.
/
@@zen4men Thank you for that very, VERY complimentary and interesting response!
@@wayneantoniazzi2706
My pleasure!
Your comment caught my eye.
/
Amazing what one learns on the internet!
I have found at least a dozen ancestors
killed at the Battle of Flodden.
Two Macleod great(x6)-grandfathers
lead their men out for Bonnie Prince Charlie,
and one earned the title "Old Trojan"
aged 54 at the Battle of Falkirk
for killing a mounted dragoon,
while both survived Culloden.
It changes one's view of history
when probable ancestors
took part in certain events,
such as King Harald Hardrada,
KIA at Stamford in 1066.
But I am stumped so far
on this particular Benjamin Sparrow!
Even if not related,
he deserves to be better known
beyond his very brief Wikipedia entry!
/
@@zen4men Well for what it's worth not everything's on Wikipedia, not yet anyway. You MAY find something on Benjamin Sparrow in the RN's archives, I believe they're in Greenwich if I'm not mistaken?
I have to admit I know very little concerning my European ancestry. Supposedly there's an Italian knight in the family way, WAY back but aside from that if a US Marine officer recruiting commercial from the 1990s is correct then the only "knight" in the family is ME! 🤣
As far as I'm concerned my family's history begins at Ellis Island where my immigrant grandparents got off the boat around 1920.
And absolutely, it's amazing the things you learn and the people you meet on the Internet!
Did this Italian fellow just happen to sell some of his meticulous paintings to the French?
Huh
Majorca and Minorca.
Major and Minor.
Big and small.
Minorca is pretty dull because it was largely uninhabitable due to decades of North African Muslim predation.
Gang
So you're still not supposed to purposely avoid officers in the modern American military to avoid giving the proper salute/greeting
7:43 this is just plain false. An infantry hanger is extremely usefull in bayonet fighting. For example, if you miss a thrust with your bayonet and end up too close to use your weapon effectively, it is safer to draw the hanger and end the fight, rather than to actually try to retreat to a distance where both bayonets can attack each other. This is the case with any long weapon, which is way in pike squares of the 17th century, all infantry still wore swords.
I am sure that is technically the case- but such a specific scenario was largely not present in 18th C. combat, when as it is bayonets rarely actually made contact. This meant that the swords simply weren't worth carrying. It is also worth noting that bayonet fencing and other forms of melee training were not typically present in 18th C. military training either, in order to effectively employ such methods.
@@BrandonF Oh! I forgot about that. Bayonet charges rarely actually landed did they?
@@iantheduellist Yeah- most charges ended up either failing, or pushing the enemy from the field before they made contact. Typically the threat of them, if an enemy was actually able to close the distance, was sufficient to deter anyone from hanging around too long! Proper bayonet drill only really took off after the Napoleonic era as I understand it.
Can I just ask, why are you so interested in the British military. And I’m assuming you are an American right?
Take some lessons in video presentartion and STOP WAVING YOUR HANDS AROUND. Three minutes was enough. T
"keeping their bodies erect, looking full at the officer they intend to compliment, with manly confidence"
sounds a bit gay ngl