Multiple Sclerosis Pain Explained: Lhermitte Phenomenon
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2018
- Multiple Sclerosis Pain Explained: Lhermitte Phenomenon
Learn about MS with Aaron Boster MD! I started this channel to help my own MS patients learn between clinic visits. I use easy-to-understand language to provide accurate and approachable Multiple Sclerosis education. So, if you’re impacted by MS and want to up your game, make sure to subscribe to my channel right now!
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ABOUT This Video: In this video I’m going to teach you about Lhermittes phenomenon, an unusual pain syndrome oftentimes associated with Multiple Sclerosis.
I’ll explain the underlying cause of Lhermitte phenomenon, why it’s so common amongst folks with MS, how it presents clinically, and if you stick around to the end, how we can treat it.
Clinically Lhermitte is describes as follows: You flex your neck and feel electrical shocking sensation from your neck, down your back, into your feet! Now this is the most classic presentation, although in clinical practice I see many variations.
Lhermitte is caused by something bothering the spinal cord, most commonly in the posterior (back part) cervical cord. Your cord is tethered at the skull base and also within the spinal canal because of all the nerves that exit, holding it in place. Now, when you flex neck you put tension on the cord and stretch it a bit. This is enough to cause an MS lesion in the posterior cervical spinal cord to kinda “short circuit” and send false messages. In this case- electrical shocking sensations!
Other things that bother the spinal cord can also cause this, such as tumor, infection, or spinal cord damage. MRI C spine is very helpful in clarifying this.
New onset Lhermitte may represent a new MS attack, and we can quell the inflammation in the cord with high dose steroids.
When Lhermitte has stuck around and is now considered a “chronic symptom” we can use “neuropathic pain medications” to decrease the discomfort.
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WHAT ABOUT YOU? What has been your experience with Lhermitte phenomenon? How do you best describe it to others? Please leave your comments below!
Also, if you've been successfully treated for Lhermitte phenomenon, please share with us what worked for you!
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These videos do not provide medical advice and are for informational/educational purposes only. The videos are not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of a qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have read or seen in any of our videos.
“Lhermitte is a dead French guy” lol love it! These videos are the best. This was one of my very first symptoms 12 years ago.
Thank you for getting my goofy humor Stephanie! If you're willing to share, what was it like when you first had Lhermitte sign 12 years ago?
Aaron Boster MD I was a senior in college. I would feel it most acutely in conjunction with heat sensitivity when I would get out of a hot shower. I attributed it (at the time) to typical finals exhaustion.
ugg! 😖
At least now I know how to pronounce it! Thanks Dr. Boster! I appreciate a clinician with a good sense of humor!
I went to ER for this. Was eventually sent as outpatient to Spinal Surgeon. I have explained it the weirdest way, none of the doctors heard my description before. I described it as when I bend down to play my ACOUSTIC guitar, I feel a shock as if it were electric and I never owned an electric guitar. I have been dx since 2017. Also with ON since 2014. Uthoff's phenomenon as well/ Hope this helps anyone. and listen to Skrillex before you get an MRI. Be prepared. XOXO to all the MS commmunity, and anyone suffering from anything
I had my very first Lhermitte's a few weeks ago (over 22 years after first MS symptom), happened about 10 times during two weeks: after any sudden movement, first it felt like my brain stroke against inside of the skull, next was the vibrating-contrabass-string sensation down my spine, immediately followed by sort of a vibration feeling in my jaw bone (pretty crazy jump from the sacrum up into the jaw bone). The whole incident was each time almost pain free, but freaking strange and frightening.
Got a contrast MRI scheduled for next Wednesday, lets see if the pictures will manage to convince my doctor to change my DMD one last time.
Curious.. how did that mri look?
I just found your channel. Thanks for providing the information in a plain English presentation. I have a great MD who specializes in MS, but clinic visits are always so brief. Your demo is relaxed but thorough. I am a retired trauma nurse, I understand the information vacuum about MS and other neurological conditions can be frightening. I also have SPMS. This symptom is a bugger for me-not really painful, just annoying as heck. It's been quiet for years, but now it's back in a full-scale uproar, arms, hands, down to the floor and back in a rapid-fire salvo. Darn. But while looking for more information, I came upon your channel. Helped me get back on track. This is just another annoyance to deal with, a weird little blip that can be understood and managed. Nicely done, Doc! Thanks.
When I was diagnosed I had 3 lesions in my neck with one of them being active and larger than the other two. Since that time over ten years ago I have experienced this many times. It is typically when I turn my head although I can't figure out any certain way that brings it on. The electricity feeling shoots down my arm. Over the years I have gotten use to this as I have gotten use to so many other things and mostly I ignore it. (I take an off label seizure medication) Occasionally the pain is either very intense or very sudden and I will yelp like a crazy person. Luckily because I am aware of it I do not usually have to many instances of yelling anymore but in the beginning it was very difficult when I didn't expect it. I've become quite good at making the people around me thing I am "normal" and most people don't have any idea that I have anything wrong with me unless I tell them. I appreciate your videos because it is a very scary thing to go through all these changes in your body and to over come them. I have always worked to educate myself about my disease and I always find something new to learn in your videos!
I'm super glad that the information helps Lisa! Thanks for watching these videos, feedback like yours keeps me inspired to make more!
Your description of yelping like a crazy person made me laugh out loud because I literally just tried to explain how it makes me react(moan, cry, scream-didnt really fit)and could not think of a very good word for it. Yelp fits perfectly! Hope you're better! 😊
Bless you for giving my Spinal pain a name. Mine happens after being seated on a hard surface with my head cocked to the side or front I think, it’s brief and intense and painful but does not last more than a minute or so. I am So happy to hear that it has a name and explanation
Thanks for all the knowledge you share. The more we learn, the better we live with MS.
Thank you Dr. Boster for another very informative and easy to understand video.
YW Ernie, great to hear from you again! Thanks for watching and thanks for the feedback!
Dr. Boster, I’m so glad I found your channel!
I am so thankful for this, and had I bot come across your page or this specifically, I would've never been privy to spasticity.......Ive been struggling for some time and jut keep being told its a tare in my shoulder, (but both arms and legs are immensely effected here) now I have something to run with in understanding. Thank you.
Thanks for the videos. They’re very informative. Before I was diagnosed with MS I experienced this symptom but I didn’t know what it was at the time. For me, it wasn’t painful but when I would bend my neck forward I would get an electrical current sensation that would run down my back and the front of my left thigh. It would stop at the knee. It didn’t hurt but felt very strange and almost like I had a rubber band stretching right under the skin. It went away on its own after a few weeks or so. Once I was diagnosed and I described this to my neurologist, he told me what it was.
#MSWarriors
I experienced LeHermitte’s during my last flare. Initially, it felt like a shooting jolt down my spine to my toes. More of a surprising jolt than a painful one. A few days later as my flare/symptoms got even worse, it changed, becoming more painful and more localized to my neck/cervical spine.
Sounds super unpleasant JoAnn. Has it now gone away or do you still notice it at times?
Do you mid sharing how often you have this? I feel like I have this .. very painful and I usually let out a moan or scream as its so jolting and painful . I can remember where I was, Who I was with what I was wearing every time this has happened because it's so painful and surprises me. I've only had about 6-7 episodes in 12 years so not sure its lhermites..
Wow. Im undiagnosed but this is happening to me now. They thought I had MS 8 years ago... do you get migraines with the nexk pain?
My 1st attack with the dead guy thing ( lol) I was pushing a heavy grocery cart at Kroger for Thanksgiving dinner. I down thinking my hands were being shocked on the cart from wet shoes an electrical cord on the floor. It was very strange
I get this frequently. When I was going through the diagnosing process in 2018 it was so prevalent and scary. Now when it happens its not so jarring. Good vibes to everyone who experiences this!
Thanks for these videos. I recall having these since I was a kid. Had I known what I know now!
Howdy fae! Thanks for watching and I appreciate the kind words! Which MS topics would you be interested in hearing more about?
Fae925,yes I become aware of these electric sensations as a child to,does make you wonder if it's a very early sign of MS.
Yup. This was one of my first symptoms 10 years ago.
Thank you Dr for posting this video. I was in a cycling accident and fractured my neck and also had trauma to the spinal cord. After getting the neck brace off (at 10 weeks) I started going to PT appointments. As my neck slowly began moving again, I started having these shocks down my back legs and feet when I was taking a walk and looking down ( seriously almost dropped me). it gets much worse with physical activity and also appears in arms and chest. My spine surgeon didn't give me much info at all other than my cervical spine has healed and is stable, but this video has helped me better understand what the heck is going on. Is physical activity going to hinder any healing to the cord? As a cyclist, I hope to get back on the bike someday. Thank you again and be well everyone!
Thanks for the video. That was informative.
Your welcome Cementra and thank you for your support on the channel!
I've had a pain in my back(after rotating head forward and down) on and off for 37 years and only recently found out it was Lhermittes Sign, my problem is (middle of spine (top to bottom) just to the left hand side) I would explain the feeling as pinching the skin with a pair of pliers, the more your bend the tighter the pinch.
Makes me wince just thinking about it! Great Video.
I have had this for over a year now. I work at an airport and park airplanes all day. I noticed it at work when I turned my head down and it was like an electric shock in the back of my head painful enough to make my face wince. Once it is triggered in a day any similar movement will send it shooting again. So I find myself moving my whole body after it has been offset, which is difficult in my job. It is always in the same place in my head too. I had a brain MRI done a year ago to check for a tumor and they didn't find anything. I see a rheumatologist because I am ANA positive but for over 2 years now all my blood work has been normal. I told my doctor about all the neurological symptoms I have had for years that I had dismissed because I thought they were unrelated to rheumatology and therefore unimportant to gaining a diagnosis. I have now been referred to a neurologist and have my first appointment in a couple weeks. I am eager to see if this new avenue will give me an answer.
Did u see the neurologist?
Finally and name for what have been feeling. First time i felt it was when walking around the block with my wife. Not really painful but extremely weakening of my legs..i thought i was gonna hit the ground...ended up being a short walk.
Thanks Doc for the videos!
Last Feb. was my big relapse that ended with a diagnosis in June of 2017. Well, the Lhermitte’s phenomenon started mid March and it was just like you described a SHOCK starting at the base of my neck and ran all the way down my legs to my toes. I will never forget it! I was wrapping my little girls birthday presents sitting on my bedroom floor, leaned forward, tipped my chin down, and ZAP! Oddly, the week prior I had been experiencing an indescribable “creaking” right in the center of my chest/spine when I put my chin to my chest. So, I see that now as the development of the L’hermittes. Now, I continued to experience this zapping with the head tilt motion all the way through the fall. I did sort of learn to avoid the range of motion that would trigger it, and I sort of just oddly got used to it. Slowly, I noticed it wasn’t happening as much, and now it hasn’t happened in months! I am hopeful it means the DMD I have chosen is working, along with diet changes. Dr. Boster, have you seen patients improve with this symptom alongside maybe a lesion in the spine improving? (I do have a large cervical spine lesion).
Hey Cassie! No matter what the underlying reasons, it's AWESOME that you're better and not getting ZAPPED any longer! I have seen patients make improvements I didn't think possible following spinal cord attacks. I don't see it often but I have seen it!
Would it be typical for this symptom to disappear with the patient coming out of a relapse, or does it typically linger? (Mine hung around for seven months).
Either can happen. Recovery from an attack can take 6+ months in some cases, but it's not common.
Who do I tell about this harsh electrical cramp 9/10 for 45 seconds ANDD then lightens little by little, but I deff have itt.....who do I go c
Sounds very similar to my symptoms feels like I've been tazered to my neck.
Just waiting on ct scan results
OUCH!
Thank you that was helpful..
I think my case that is chronic and old multiple sport injuries matchs the phenomena that you were pointing...
Ive been trying to consult Drs here and there bit no one was able to help me.
Finally i ended up fixing it by my self using two kinds of substances, one has a positive effect on my neuro system and the other got an opposite effect.
By flipping between both status of my spine with some stretching exercises i think its getting better but very slow.
Noting that i got a hip and shoulder injury causes multiple scoliosis (nick, meddle and lower part.
I hope this information may help.
👌
I have had this symptom since I was diagnosed in 2008. When i bend my head down (which I dont do alot) it doesnt hurt rather its more of a tingling sensation down my neck and can feel this in my arms too.
Love the videos! When I get bad solumedrol 1 gram x 7 days tones things down. I will still have it but it is toned down a lot.
Thanks Henry!
Hi doc, love your Craftsman home!
I've had Lhermettes occasionally over the past 60 years, not now. I never found it painful. Just tingly.
Having MRI w Cervical spine, concerned about Gal dye. Have had several w dye, no prob
However, the last one in 2014 i was VERY nauseated after injection. Powered thru it (nurse), but should I be concerned? Your vids rock!
Thank you for watching Lo and thank you for sharing our experience.
As a side note, the cyclical gad MRI dyes are considered much safer, you might consider a scan ensuring they use one of those
Wow! I'm not crazy. When I tell my neurologist this how I feel, he look at me like I'm nuts. Thanks for this.
Thank you Dr Boster, yes I had that, I guess it was when I was having lots of relapses. I’ve been on Tysabri 5 years now. I didn’t notice when this symptom stopped but i’m glad it did.
I'm just glad it's gone! I hope Tysabri has helped keep the MS at bay, it's a great high efficacy therapy!
Aaron Boster MD yes Tysabri is fantastic, before it I was relapsing every two weeks but since being on it I haven’t had a relapse for years just symptoms like nerve pain, MS Hug and spasms. A combination of good diet, exercise, pacing myself and Tysabri is working wonders.
awesome Ann!
Annthepoet
You give me hope! After failing both copaxone and Rebif, I’m getting ready for my 3rd Tysabri infusion in a week or so. Have you felt that you’ve had neurological improvements as well, or primarily prevention of new lesions?
Can you feel this in your arms? Woke up in from a dead sleep with my arms buzzing like nothing I've ever experienced before, felt momentarily paralyzed. Now I have perceived weakness and muscle spasms all over my body, mostly calves. Also, after this episode I have been very depressed.
Just started experiencing this the last 2 days - it’s extremely uncomfortable not sure if anyone else gets nauseous from this ? Just got diagnosed in July 2020 still going through discovery of new ailments associated with MS -
Love your videos on this. 3 Questions tho. Can people with the Lhermitte’s sign only experience a few symptoms of it on different days versus experiencing it always? Is this usually temporarily if you are having just early signs of it? I just recently experienced this again yesterday. It was painful. It gave me other MS symptoms for a while that day. I experienced it again this morning while sleeping on my belly with my neck somewhat forward and looking to left on pillow. It was sharp at first in the back of head. It then started to very slowly creep down spine into arms, shoulders, middle body, and legs. I reacted in a ahhh way until it stopped. It caused tingling and burning and like a half numbness feeling to happen. It caused my body to shake in spine, arms and legs. My left leg gait literally changed to what my right side leg has been experiencing for years to say the least. Right side gait was unchecked for years and I just thought this was normal to me. I always find ways to adapt to anything I find wrong with me even when it is not checked by a doctor. Symptoms came and gone so I never was able to get to a doctor in time while it happened. So I always was frustrated when it disappeared at random even. The left gait problem I hope subsides, because I walk, push, pull, and lift a lot at work and fatigue settle’s in 2 hours at Least into a full 8 hour day at work. Weakness has been terrible right now while walking the past 3 days. I only take ibuprofen for work and at home and it only helps with minimal pain. I only take a minimal dose in morning and one dose when I get home right away or wait till later before bed. when needed and to afraid to take extra doses without talking to doctor first. I get to see a neurologist finally soon, but doctors here are very iffy to know which one will really even be the right doctor. They seem to specialize only in other diseases or symptoms upon the sites I see. Can a person send over MRI’s to your place for second opinions to check for possible lesions? I hate doctors that tend to not be thorough on a machine test.
Have MS flareup for over a month, because it took forever to get tested and then put on medicine. Now experiencing this now that I can feel inflammation in areas has decreased. More concerned with this being chronic, normal, because I absolutely do not like the feeling!
This was one of my first signs of MS but I thought The chiropractor could fix it and it just was not getting better. Till a week later I was completely paralyzed from the shoulders down and get diagnosed with MS I have lesions all over my brain and spine (24 active lesions)
I had that for 2 months i thought it felt great i could put my head down and electricity would go down my back and down my arms i would do it when my back hurt and the pain would stop i was so mad when it stopped working
I didn't have a buzzing or a pain, but when I turned my head to change lanes, I had almost a woozy feeling. It was intense and jarring enough that I immediately turned my head back to front facing. It did that for a while, and then I haven't experienced it since. I'm not certain this is what it was because the doctor would just look at me without comment. I just always wonder when I see information describing it.
I've been dealing with this for months straight - it used to come and go, but now it stays. Mines more of a buzzing sensation and pressure on my back when I move my head forward. Feels like I have a tens machine on my back. I also get tightening and tingling in both arms and legs. I take gabapentin 400mg at night and baclofen throughout the day. My spinal cord gets the wrong signals and causes vasoconstriction when I walk too - PAD ruled out and diagnosed as neurovascular. On Mavenclad now so hopefully no more new attacks - fingers crossed.
I’m going to get check. I’ve been going through something like this. Hope it’s just a pinched nerve.
I used to have that from my lower back down my legs all throughout my 20's. I couldn't walk while it was happening but then it would go away. It felt traumatic.
This is what led to my diagnosis. Pretty sure without it, I wouldnt be diagnosed or treated yet. I was having weird MS symptoms before, which on their own weren‘t too scary or typical, so nobody took me serious.
Only when Lhermitte‘s came into the picture and I told the neurologist at the ER „hey I feel an Electric Shock whenever I bend my neck forward“ I felt seen. So I view the symptom as my scary friend.
Thank you for the info, I didn‘t know it could be treated.
Does bending the neck hurt the lesion in any way?
Before I realized I had Ms, I had a spinal I nal ablation on C3,4,5,6 with good results. In fact I did the chin to sternum thing to show him where it hurts.
My first and very mysterious symptom that I ignored for over a year 😥
Is LP caused only from cervical lesions or could it be caused by thoracic or brain lesions? I experience this but no lesion on cervical spine...
Hi Dr. Boster, I’ve never commented but do post your videos in many MS groups on Facebook.
Over this past summer I had multiple enhancing lesions. I experienced sudden excruciating electrical pain. My pain would start in my neck and I could feel it slowly move across my entire head. It happened about 3-4 times. I describe it as brain on fire. Is this related?? I’ve also had the classic electrical shock(as described in this video) on and off for the past 23 years, if not longer.
I've felt this for about 2-3 months, for me there isn't any pain, even doing almost on purpose at times. briefly i feel it at my neck, but almost instantly from knees and down to feet, mostly ontop of feet and shins maybe. One time i kinda kept my head down, and felt like my feet were throbbing or shaking. more steadily constantly it can feel a little tingly, and at times hot in feet and shins, .. or sometimes id compare it to having applied those cooling gel creams.
I feel a little like im also going a little stiff in neck, or tension.. either from it directly, or just me trying to hold head still more.
yup. i have this too. although it's not especially painful for me...more just strange.
On 31 st Dec 2023 I had lost my left eye vision suddenly. After doing MRI ORBIT and cerebral spinal fluid examination it is diagnosed as Optic Nutritis.After steroid treatment, I regained my vision. Doctors don't utter a word about MS as. I have heard that Optic Nutritis is the first sign of MS.
Can Lhernittes sign be percieved as a strong tightening of the "back strap" muscles, the ones that run along the spine, when flexing the neck forward?
I began having Lhermitte's Signs (or phenomenon) after my first bout of Optic Neuritis. It would only happen after I left the gym and was worn out. I've had it once in a great while throughout the years and was very grateful when a neurologist finally explained what was going on in my body. I am curious to know why it has virtually gone away. Does MS progress past a certain point and then the Lhermitte's just ceases to exist?
Thanks for all of your informative videos...you seem to be a very kind and compassionate doctor who only wants to make people understand what MS is comprised of as well as making us feel like someone really is there to listen, understand, and educate. Kudos to you!!!
Symptoms can last months (or years) and then seemingly go away. Brain or spinal cord re-wires itself best it can, heals what it can, compensates for what it can. Lesions can reduce in size. It's not common for chronic symptoms to disappear but I've seen it.
Thank you for those very kind words Athena, I'm super glad I can help!
Thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to address my question.
I have a weird issue with my RRMS. I have this non-productive cough that has been going on for years. I have undergone numerous tests and was even seen by a lung specialist, however, no one can explain the cause of my cough. I mentioned the cough to my neuro and she quickly said that the cough was easily explained as I have a lesion in my C4 - C5 disc space. I have lesions at different locations in my spine, but she specifically mentioned this particular lesion. Have you ever seen or heard of anything like this?
This makes sense considering the neuroanatomy Athena. The nerves that come off the C3, C4, and C5 segments of the spinal cord are involved in breathing.(There's a saying in medschool, "C 3, 4 5 keeps you alive" to help remember they were involved in breathing!)
Damage to the cord at these levels could certainly impact breathing.
Thank you so much for confirming what I've been told! When I tell that to some doctors, they tend to look at me with scepticism and tend to think I'm looking for hydrocodone. I assure them that hydrocodone is the last thing I want to be on for the rest of my life and would try anything as an alternative. I've recently started taking Wellbutrin as the head pharmacist at a local hospital said that it might help with the cough, however it hasn't. Again, thank you!
i had experienced lhermitte before i had diagnosed ms.i can't remember how many years but it was there.i am a metalhead so i always thought that it was about my headbangings:) when i've diagnosed with ms,after my first treatment with cortisone it disappeared.with years my two spinal lesions disappeared too on mrı.i am using my drugs(copaxone) and i try to not give a fuck.do not be frightened with ms.just do not give a fuck about life,we are here to live a life and let yourselves live the best.ms can not beat you...
I am here. I have this syndrome. It started at 41 randomly one day walking my dog when i turned my neck. i grabbed my neck and said " OWWW wtf was that" At that time i was severly depressed from the loss of my parents and just wasnt feeling well. IM 43 now and it has happened about 15 times. It seem to always happen on my right neck from the lower ear to the top trap muscle of shoulder. It a sudden ZAPP and its gone, but it is quite painful. I tend to be more sensitive to all pain so for others this might not be painful. It happens usually when im moving my head to the side and talking. ive also noticed an increase in eye floaters and complete body soreness, stiffness. interestly enough i had a similar ZAAPP pain under my right rib and thought it was liver issues. tons of tests over 4 years and nothing found for that pain. it hurt bad. came and went. Then it stopped for good and never came back. i think it was a nerve firing off! but it dropped me to the floor. I dont know which one i rather get suprised by!! uggh. any natrual supplements to calm these nerves down? I get migraines often too and take Ubrevely 100mg
Informative video, thanks! Is it normal for Lhermitte's to move to different locations in the body and vary in intensity? For example, I find some days my toes buzz, other days a finger buzzes when bending neck and sometimes nothing at all. I also never feel it in my back! Strange disease this MS!
I think that it IS possible. Sometimes nature is just a bit too generous! Ugg. Thank you for watching and thank you fo sharing your experience KoolKatie!
I experienced the electric shock while stretching my arm to reach for something high above.. came from crook of my shoulder armpit area...??? Any advice what that could be..??
I had this 15yrs ago, I thought it was a result of a fall. When I had optic neuritis I told my family doctor. Had a MRI and nothing was found-is that mean I had something else? Can lesions disappear?
Like to hear some information regarding peripheral neuropathy in regards to chemotherapy: platinum, taxanes -- I know there is no cure for all the side effects but would like to be relatively pain-free to do functional daily living activities.
When (my tysabri) and now my ocrevus is due, my lehrmittes is MUCH stronger. My legs feel like they’re being “tazed”. If I’m not due for meds and it happens, I know I’m probably relapsing.
I was just diagnosed on Monday and had this going on for months. I thought it was a pinched nerve but I got my confirmation, just want it TO GO AWAYY. Do you recommend a specific type of seizure med and how long, also will this interfere with tecfidera?
Recently diagnosed with MS. It felt like an internal tremor or vibrations but i couldn't pin point where it was coming from. It only happened when i looked down
I have something like this but not my in neck but in my left eye. If I look to far to the sides or up and down
Hi there, I have another odd symptom which nobody else seems to. It's that my big toe insists on flexing upwards and sometimes refuses to lay flat like the others. It's wearing holes in shoes and socks!
I get this often but its more like a tingly feeling, sometimes on my back or my neck, normally on my left side.
Yes. Never once when I had it was it ever a shock.
I keep getting this happen, especially when I have a lot of inflammation issues going on. Im not currently diagnosed with MS but my symptoms are pointing that way. Because I have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome my GP tends to put any new symptoms down to deconditioning. Recently I was telling her about bizarre sensations of shaking but inside my legs. It felt like I was laying on a vibration plate. It tends to happen around late evening and is rather off putting and annoying. She put it down to deconditioning. I told about the fact that when I walk with my walking stick (as I tend to have little falls and stumbles) the floor feels like jelly. Its like I cant quite tell where my feet are as I think ive moved my foot quite far forward only to find that id taken a tiny step which will cause me to almost stumble. When this happens I kind of look like a toddler trying to walk. Lol. But now we have the head ache thing as well, eye pain when moving my eyes, light sensitivity. My vision can be fine one day but is blurry the next, had this checked by an opthalmologist and there is no reason for it. My Mum also had a lot of these symptoms and she was diagnosed with M.S. I just just dont quite know what to do. I have an appointment for a Neurologist but its in 9 months time! Do I go back to my GP and make more noise about all this? The symptoms are getting worse. Im already bedbound and it really disappoints me that they are so quick to put everything down to Chronic fatigue. Sorry this is so long by the way!!!
Hi doctor Boster! My case is really strange. I would really appreciate if you could take some time to analyze and comment. [My symptom]: When I bend my neck down such that my chin is just about to touch my chest, I feel a mild vibration in my buttocks. The vibration is very mild, 20% the intensity of a vibrating phone you may assume. Please note: I feel no other sensation anywhere else in my body: no shock, no pins, and needles, no pain. The vibration last 1-3 seconds and then goes away. [STRANGE PART]: So, let's say I bend my neck and experience the above-described vibration once. Now, if I immediately raise my neck up and bend it back down with considerable speed (& considerable tension) I DO NOT feel any sensation in my buttock. Also, any successive attempt made very quickly at moving my neck back up and down, up and down, up and down doesn't result in any sensation in the buttocks. Only if I take pause (20 seconds) and start over by bending my neck down, do I feel that vibration in my buttocks again. [WHAT MY DOCTOR SAYS] My doctor says this is L'hermitte's but isn't MS because: in MS every time you bend your neck you will experience the sensation. In fact, more the tension, more the sensation. That is why he has ruled out MS. What do you think based on your experience with your patients?
Hi I have word for word the same as you 100% ...
Have you found a solution to your problem because my doctor can't find a precise answer about me and it stresses me out when I think about it.
I hope you no longer have this problem and that you see this message. See you
I'm curious as well since having the same. Has anyone of you a diagnosis or further information?
@@itachysay9024 maybe you have an idea meanwhile?
Same problem.. Did u find out the solution?
I can't believe I am back to this post a good 4 years later.
Here's why I came back:
A guy pinged me on Instagram coz he read my post (dated: 2019) and felt his symptoms matched mine a 100%. So to enquire what happened to me after that, he pinged me. Now since there are a few other people who've said that their symptoms have also matched mine, I am here to share what happened to me after I wrote this post i.e. my journey post May 2019.
So it was back in May 2019 that I was experiencing the symptoms I mentioned in the post. Soon after that,
- I visited more neurologists in Taipei (I was based in Taiwan back then). They all said I don't have MS basis the physical exam they did. They also denied approval to conduct an MRI saying this was not Lhermitte's and such random sensations were possible, but doesn't mean it was MS.
- One of the nuerologists asked me to visit a psychiatrist because he thought I was losing my peace (coz of the uncertainty)
- The psychiatrist I visited put me on xanax (or something similar). Just to clarify, Xanax is an anti-anxiety drug that really slows you down, as in, your heart rate becomes slow and you feel extremely light, making you temporarily feel stress free.
- within 1 week of being on Xanax, the symptoms (I described in this post) went away and ever since those symptoms have never come back.
- since my symptoms went away after taking Xanax, psychiatrist said it couldn't be MS because MS doesn't get better with Xanax.
- with that he stopped my xanax and my symptoms have never shown up ever again. He said most likely it was some anxiety that triggered those symptoms.
So that was that. Never felt an MS-like symptom again. Never felt anything even remotely close to that again. Been fully normal ever since.
So if u are having these weird symptoms , may be see a psychiatrist.
Can Lhermitte’s sign be present in a person with piriformis syndrome and sciatic pain?
I had no clue this was a thing! I have had these symptoms for a long time. I have a horrible electrical shock that starts in my neck and shoots all the way down to my heel. I’ve fallen several times because my leg just gives out! Idk why, but I have never discussed it with my Dr. Well, maybe because I have had so much happen in such a short amount of time. Thank you for posting this as I would have never known it was an official thing.
You're very welcome squatch box! Glad this helped you! #WeHaveMS
Definitely one of my longest symptoms that I ignored. Mine shoots down my spine, arms and into finger tips. Sometimes it's weak and sometimes it's really strong and I swear it is vibrating my body. Is it weird if I don't mind it that much. :P
That's not weird ichabod, I'm glad the buzzy doesn't bother you. Not all sensory complaints will hurt, I'm glad this one doesn't fo you!
I agree. Out of all the symptoms I have, this is the least frustrating for me. Maybe because I can avoid it somewhat? Compared to not having proper feeling in my hands and feet, this seems pretty mild to me. I’d give anything to have my hands back!
Ichabod13, I'm the same have ignored Lhermetts for decades, to be honest I thought it was a normal human experience to feel this energy/shocks running through our bodies, so I just ignored it not wanting to look like a weirdo, but in saying that in the last 8months these shocks/Lhermetts have got alot worse debilitating to be honest,the shocks have become very painful, I dread even walking around in my home with a cane,that at any moment of my movement I'm going to experience that boot of electricity.
@@megd7593 how are your hands these days?
I experience the same thing except that flexing my neck does not cause pain but a vibration in the lumbar area and right leg. Could it be Lhermitte's sign even if it is not painful but just vibrating?
It gave me the Willy’s just watching you bend your neck like that lol! I feel mine right down to my heels and can be quite uncomfortable. Doesn’t last long but feels horrible.
Talk to your provider about it Kimberly. There are meds to help with this horrible symptom!
So an action potential can originate mid-axon at a lesion? Or is it an action potential that exists before the neck bend is further led astray by the lesion and the tension.
think of it as starting "mid axon" although this is admittedly oversimplified. Thanks for watching and thank for the question!
I recently did cervical spine and brain mri, it was clear with no lesions. Yet when i bend my neck towards my chest, i feel the elect feeling down to my legs, any idea if its caused by another reason?
I have this feeling for one month... When i bend my neck i have buzzing sensation in my tailbone area. .. But nothing goes down my spine...i went to my neurologist and he said its not lhermitte because it doesnt go down the spine... Here i saw you said its possible to feel it only at some part of bodie and that it doesnt need to go down the spine... I have apointed mri for next week...i am not diagnosed with ms... What are your thoughts on that?
If it doesn't hurts is it also a lhermitte phenomenon? fells like only an elektrik wave
I am on Lyrica...damn Lerhmite
I contacted my MS provider and let them know I wanted to cancel service😂
How about when moving neck sideways I feel electricity from neck into my skull not down my back. It’s enough to stop me in my tracks for a minute or two…. This was when I was in high school
Dr. Boster, can MS cause this phenomenon not going down, but up from neck to side and top of head with neck movement?
I don't know if what I'm feeling is this but often when I yawn Wich happens alot now I have a full body lock sometimes I lose vision but I can move my neck just fine
i feel this when i extend my neck and not flexion, could i have something like reverse Lhermitte Phenomenon?
When I sneeze I get that jolt of shock thru my arms to the tip of my fingers ... Very uncomfortable feeling
Had this happen to me today while I turned my head down and to the left, and it was very uncomfortable, left a lot of tightness around the occipital region.
I’m in the process of being tested for MS.
Thanks! This is some really valuable info
Can lhermittes just be pins and needles in your legs when you look down. I dont feel tingling or shock anywhere in my spine or arms. I only feel it in my legs. Also, can it be caused by walking.
Sounds like a variation of Lhermittes to me Jgh Jgh #WeHaveMS
I just saw this video I wasn't aware that there was treatment for this that is how they k we to check me for ME
right on Chris!
I've had this for years but I have wear and tear on every cervical discs. If I turn my neck to left or right to quick it's a shock alright. I've always described it as hot liquid lava erupting lol. There is only 2 times I've turned my neck and didn't move back couldn't move my head was half turned to left stuck it was bloody painful. I will always remember the 1st time it happened I was 17. I turned my neck the pain was ridiculous I thought that was it I phoned my dad at work panicking and he told me don't be silly u just hurt it. Did go to doctors that day honestly can't remember what he said but do remember he saying don't work today u need to rest 😂 I never ever went bk about this as I thought was normal until I started seeing neurologist. It is very painful luckily for me just lasts seconds only twice lasted alot longer
Sir can we get rid of this by eating any food??
When i first had this i told my neurologist it felt like a guitar string being pulled
Sir, is there any connection between Tregiminal Neuralgia
And MS, because both of seem similar to me
Howdy Grey Fox. Thank you for watching and thank you for the question. Here is a video on the topic that I hope will provide your answer: th-cam.com/video/b11h6QEXZdg/w-d-xo.html
Can it be because of anxiety???????
I've had it but never a shock like feeling but more of a tingle. Def not painful. I have been dx with spinal stenosis and also with MS so 😕. It def went away within months of decompressive surgery. It did not come back till I was hit at the side of the head 10yrs later. It's gone again 3yrs later. Within a wk of the head trauma I had that painful shock like pain in my arm. Of course drs said MS even tho it was only ever a differential diagnosis for 20yr due to the spinal stenois with lesions but lack of any brain lesiions. Dr then ordered MRI but only on cervical spine and wrote ''recent neck injury''. No mention of the head trauma. Hmm, what a way, IMO, to skew the results. MRI came back with another new spine lesion but also NEW pon ( middle cerebellar peduncle) and cerebellum on the side I was hit on. Dr still refused to do a head MRI and I change drs at that point but all this still stands on my medical files as my dr was also a WC dr. Thankfully the hindbrain lesions went away within a yrs but now new brain lesion mostly on the one side. From what I read DAI head injury on MRI scans will show up in the same parts of the brain as MS lesions. Any thoughts on that? Anyways, super helpful video as never heard it can be the painful shock like pain. Dr Aaron I believe you are not the same as the many ''corrupt'' or bias drs out there. Thank you for that.
btw, was so sick from the nausea, eye oscillating, dizziness that started soon after the head trauma but all was and is blamed on MS. Most resolved within a yr but the arm pain has recently come back. The eye floaters never resolved. Yet, no optic nerve lesions now or even on scans since 1994. Lost my job over this.
Sharing
Hello dr. Boster, can Lhermitte Phenomenon be felt only on one arm and leg? Nothing in the spine? Thanks!
Not the "classic" presentation, but IMHO yes.
@@AaronBosterMD thank you! I'm just before the diagnosis, but already know it's MS. Such clear sympthoms. You're doing amazing job here on youtube. I'm so grateful! waiting for your films all the time:) greetings from Poland! (i wish I lived in US, you're so advanced in treatments) Anna
Howdy Anna! I was just in Warsaw during your Independence day. Really amazing city!
@@AaronBosterMD that's where I live :) it really is.
Check out minute 2:01 on this video please: th-cam.com/video/qABDJ22DWE4/w-d-xo.html
But sometimes,I'm not moving at all and it'll happen. Sometimes,it just comes from my shoulder and up into my head and sometimes,from my hand all the way up into my neck. Has anybody mentioned that their brain feels like it's popping,or gets cold like a brain freeze?
Fibrowarrior, yes I've heard descriptions like that before.
I've had lhermitte's from lesion in part of cervical spine that controls arms for 3 months now. I wear a foam collar because if I forget and put head down, not only do I get zapped, I lose all muscle control in left arm and hand and some control of right hand for 2 to 6 hours. ( The meds aren't working) Does anyone have an idea how to get or make a collar that doesn't hold in heat. I need to be able to go outside without melting!
Hang in there Aisha! #WeHaveMS
@@AaronBosterMD Had a aha moment in the middle of the night and stood straight up in the bed! If you have soft collar on which all the Velcro is sewn on to the foam, and the foam overlaps to close it, wear it slightly open and backwards. The doubled foam under chin keeps you from putting head down and allows for air circulation around neck. Made a fabric sleeve for it with a pocket for an ice pack to put in the back(which is actually the front) 😁 No sweat... literally!
we're routing for you!
Contact MSSA, if you can't afford or insurance won't pay (Both for me) they can provide an Ice jacket and I (THINK) a cooling collar as well.. Hope yours goes away, mine did after 45days. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy ….
I will bend over to pick things up and it get an electrical shock in my neck. It doesn’t shoot down my toes. It just stays in the same general area. It doesn’t travel too far out side of that area. I wonder if my symptoms would qualify for Lhermittes.
Horrible shock down arm to hand, right side
This is the only freaky symptom I have. Can it exist independent of an MS process? I have DJD in my neck. As a result of the shocky thing, I no longer make this movement, including dancing. And can it heal?
Yet again, Yep, still no diagnosis...
ugg!
Lhermittes was my initial presenting symptom back in 09. It started out pretty mild- first beginning as only a small buzz or vibration in my pointer finger. I thought I possibly had a pinched nerve in my hand or arm, or that I was maybe developing carpal tunnel. Over the next few days, that “annoying buzz” turned into an incredibly intense electric-like pulse or burst every time I looked down. It was painful, and super distracting . I couldn’t focus on anything else. I purposefully tried to walk around with my chin up just to not trigger the feeling. I never actually felt it travel down my spine, but at different times over the course of those few weeks felt the electric burst in my arms, my low back, one foot, and most intensely in the front of my thighs. Being an MRI technologist who had scanned patients with this often described “barber chair syndrome”, I knew immediately what I was possibly dealing with. :( Being pregnant at that time, I never took any meds at and just waited it out. Lhermittes was a constant reminder of my c4-c5 lesion for about 6 mos to 1 year and after that point, only was present with elevated body temp. My heart goes out to anyone else who is suffering or has suffered from this symptom.
Thank you for sharing your experience Charity. That sounds positivity awful! Has it stayed away or are there times that you seem to notice the "annoying buzz" or pulses?
Do you possibly remember the size of your cervical lesion? Thank you.
Once inna whole I'll get this crunk/crinkle in my neck wwhen I move it, it could fkn droppppbmee
Lhermitte's is the only thing I have found that describes something that I deal with, and assume it is part of my MS. My doc says no, because my lesions are in the brain.
My experience feels exactly like touching an electric livestock fence wire. Oddly though, mine is triggered most often by looking up high. It's miserable.
How about back