Just got off a call with my buddies where we created characters for a DC20 game I'll be DMing for them! Super stoked to get my first hands on experience with your system!!
An idea for you: Give players the option to add one "attrition" dice to their roll (any dice size they are willing to risk) , however they also take the value of the “attrition" dice in damage, to represent their struggle in battle. This way players can more gurantee they win the combat challenge but sacrifice some health regardless. To convert to dc20 the attrition dice damage could be static based on the dice size they chose.
This is basically how I designed combat for the Quick & Dirty RPG System, via a skill challenge-like system. It's very cinematic while still making player choices matter. Probably the major difference between Q&DRPG and DC20 in this regard is that there is no tallying up of success points in Q&DRPG. Instead, the narrative changes after each dice roll in a direct, diegetic manner rather than tallying up a non-diegetic resource and then coming up with a post-hoc narrative after the fact. I'm not saying that that's bad, but it can be immersion-breaking for some who are more averse to story-gamey mechanics. In either case, the inclusion of these skill challenge systems is a big plus in my book and makes me want to try out DC20 more than other post-OGL debacle, D&D derivatives currently in production.
This sounds awesome for running random encounters, or just any combat that makes sense for the story but wouldn't be tactically interesting enough to be fun as a full combat!
One thing I really like about this mechanic is that it works both ways: a means to avoid superfluous combat encounters AND as a way to wrap up a combat encounter where the main challenge has passed and everyone is just going through the motions of cleanup.
I DM a table that uses an Unholy amalgamation of your system and 5e. In a few weeks they'll be heading into a ruined city full of hoards of undead. I absolutely CANT WAIT to do it as a combat skill challenge!! Coach you're doing a great job and are such an inspiration. Ty so much and keep up the great work!
So for the past couple of months I've been planning a large scale fight and I've looked up many videos trying to figure out how best to do this. At one point I was making a small war game for the players which I realized very quickly, would really only limit options/choices rather than inspire creativity. This system helps alot and is a great tool for any DM (DC20 or 5e or even pathfinder if you are willing to be ok with focusing on narrative over crunchy rules). Thanks coach!
We tried it for the first time last thursday. The "communication intermediary" (Discord, in that case) turn this task into a difficult one because (you know it) Discord or Zoom or whatever creates a kind of Jell'o wall in which we are all stuck. Simple communication becomes harder in a group (who's talking to who, for whom is this answer, etc. And I don't talk about these micro delays that turn casual and dynamic conversations into difficult journeys) We must practice but I would be really happy to try it in person. This being said, I litterally ADORE this challenge things! Good job! An excellent trademark. I'm really enthousiast.
Thank you for sharing the one time payment option online! Ive been a fan of your content for years from when it was just homebrew advice but never been able to pay for patreon. so thanks for catering to people like me. also right now Iv'e been loving videos that i can watch to help myself learn the rules/character creation of your game. (ideally I would like to send them to players at my table when trying to switch them over to your new system) I'm super happy to support you finally for all the help you gave me for game prep, keep up the great work!
Would really like to see a BBEG/mini boss template sort of video, so we DM's can go ahead and sort of "plan out" our bigger encounters, already got my players to switch from 5e or DC20, but I (me specifically) am having issues with boss level enemies attributes and such. love the work, keep it up!
@TheDungeonCoach the plan was for 2players to be down in the arena, and 1 is up on the view part. (3man party) I got planned for first a mass battle, then monsters of epic proportion will appear and the players must team up with the other contestants. I do have some problems running this, since it's a lot of people... 8 entrances to the arena and arena is 600×600 feet 😆
I played the 0.4 Alpha along with it's little one shot. Great fun! I wrote notes, and took feedback from the players. Stuff like typos, unclear rules, or thoughts on the design. Wondering if you're taking feedback @The Dungeon Coach? Can I send it somewhere?
Thank you for this video! We created DC20 characters yesterday, and Friday we'll be doing the adventure that came with it. So this helps me feel more familiar with the intent behind the adventure. Plus, I love the idea of skill checks anyways, and want to use them more :). So I see skill checks as it's own, well, GM skill to get better at.
I had an idea for HP in DnD I’ve wanted to try out but need to find a group first. Not sure if it would work in DC20 but here it is lol. It’s a simple stamina system where maybe the first 3 levs make your HP pool and every lev after that makes a Stamina pool. It’s basically using the bloodied condition but visual for players. This gives the idea of every hit actually being “dodged” or “blocked” but drains stamina till they get really hit. That way you can flavor a bite attack from a adult dragon as a near miss instead of wondering how the pc still is kicking when the teeth are as big as him 😂. Also makes sense as to why you heal so much at a rest and you can add more mechanics to it if you wanted.
First of all - Really love this! An idea to help this concept is to track progress through a progress clock (a core mechanic introduced in TTRPG’s like Blade in the Dark). Basically a pie chart evenly divided into # of sectors. Second of all, I have a temptation to use this in PvP combat - For when players want to have a training combat or even settle a dispute through non-lethal combat. It’d even be easier to track if you used the progress clocks, making a clock per side. The first clock to hit success would take the other down, discussed openly through the entire party. Thoughts on whether this would go well or not?
So basically, a one round, freeform event instead of combat to speed up lesser encounters? Dude, you're a genius. This reminds me of Ghost of Tsushima, where you can, instead of fighting a group of Mongols, issue a challenge and try to cut several of them down in a series of iai-do duels. That really helped make fighting groups of enemies feel less repetitive and tedious. You win a quick event, you might cut the group down by 1 to 3 or even 5.
Holy shit, the ability to have both turn based combat and combat skill challenges fit into the same system is something i never knew i needed. This will speed up things a lot while still having attrition and consequences/complications!
Hi Coach! Maybe somebody should tell you but your system of +5, -5 roll check system is official system of DnD in some encouters from DnD Starter Set "Phandalin The Shattered Obelisk" 🧐
@@TheDungeonCoach Correct me if I'm wrong: "When a creature that can see the medusa's eyes starts its turn within 30 feet of the medusa, the medusa can force it to make a DC 14 Constitution saving throw if the medusa isn't incapacitated and can see the creature. If the saving throw fails by 5 or more, the creature is instantly petrified. Otherwise, a creature that fails the save begins to turn to stone and is restrained"
DC20 gets more interesting with each of these entries. I love granting narrative control to a player, so making all combat be collaborative storytelling is idealistic
Maybe this is a bigger discussion than a comment in this video, but I was actually thinking hard about the idea of making the players spend their resources before a big bad and I think I'm beginning to not like the idea. I understand why D&D does it. But I think it will condition the players into thinking that there will always be something bigger or more challenging coming, so they might spend most of their time just avoiding playing all of their tools, just because they want to leave all of their "good stuff" for the big bad. This can lead players to not enjoy all of the character's abilities and fun gameplay because of their idea that they at some point MIGHT use them. I'd really like to know what you think about that.
You say this can be used to wear down their resources. And not only Hp. But how can you do that when they don't spend mana points/spell slots? I really like the idea in most situations, but I would like an option if I want them to spend resources. I think this could be an advantage for non-spell functions as their resources could come back more easily, such as: Sneak Attack, Action Surge, or Bardic Inspiration..
Excited to see how this goes, Coach! Are there any plans for alternate settings for DC20? Is it going to be strictly high fantasy, or is there some room in there for weird west or sci-fi or something like that?
Im wondering how to runing this in my campaign that involves guns. I want them to do a type of "run n gun" where the party has to get to point B while dodging bullets.
You either design a game that has a cinematic approach, prioritizing narration over mechanics. Focusing on fast action and quick turns, collaborative story telling and simple straight-to-the-point gameplay. Or you design a game that's focused on offering a tactical resource-management with positioning, turn-management, and action/reaction economy. You know: what this guy described: th-cam.com/video/ud9b2HnLvDE/w-d-xo.html
In DC20, you have 4 actions which can be used also as reactions. But the more often you do something in a round, the weaker it becomes. This is usually done by the Multiple Check Penalty, where each action you take that rolls a check grants disadvantage (which can stack) on all future checks until next turn. (Checks include attacks, maneuver checks, spellcasting checks, etc.) The Help action grants a +1d8 bonus which lowers to a +1d6 on its 2nd use, then down to a +1d4 on its 3rd use. I think he has a video on his channel explaining the 4 action system in depth, if you were interested in more specific details. :)
I think Daggerheart is using a similar initiative system in their game... their logic being, "well you don't have a turn order for social encounters..." Which.... is not necessarily a bad argument. But monsters don't have turns they just "respond" to the players actions and it's just a back and forth.
Wow. That is a nifty spin on combat. It does take the opposite approach from DND 4E. DND 4E focuses more on tactical and detailed cobat. I don't think either side is objectivly better. It would depend on player preference. 4E was an attempt to appeal to those that play video games, like Workd of Warcraft. However it ended up having a big backlash from DND veterans. 5E was a compromise between the two groups. There was more detail vs less detail. Those that have fun with more strategy and tactics are better off using minitures. They would especially benefit from 4E. Those that have fun with more imagination and storytelling are better off using theater of the mind. They would especially benefit from the combat skill challenge described in this video. I don't know what side I would be on. I am not experienced enough to make a choice. I would like to try both approaches. One can even use both to make a campaign more varied. The combat skill challenge is great for small encounters, like barfights, random encounters and fighting minions. The tactical fight is great for bosses. One can even make a rule that magical reasources are only used during the bosses. Then the magicians can put thier best foot forward and unleash some truely anazing magical effects. Poor warlocks. Thry get picked on so easily. I think there should be a house rule allowing the DM to restore reasources of classes dependent on short rests. The DM should restore at thier discression, whenever they are done in battle. If there are going to be special tactical boss fights, they should be followed by a short rest or some short term resiration of magical resources. The warlock can use thier powerful spells on the boos. They are confident that they will get thier resources after battle.
@@justinbader3885the comment is not reductive. The video is explaining all of the benefits and nuanced uses of a skill challenge lol. Its informative and a good reminder/addition to DMs but it's not different. Respect to the coach getting his bag and good videos, but if he woulda said "This is my systems take on Skill Challenge" I could see how that woulda made it more clear for OP.
I imagine there are groups who will really vibe with this approach...and others for whom it's just a little too abstract. I think it is maybe not a great fit with D&D, where characters are built with the current combat rules in mind. It would feel very anticlimactic to me if my paladin scored a holy smite on an undead beast, only to be told "Congrats, you get 1 success point". And that bit where you punish players for being insufficiently "creative" (by your standards) really rubs me the wrong way. Playtesting with a bunch of TH-camrs (i.e., professional entertainers) may be skewing your perspective. You might be surprised how many players just plain aren't interested in that kind of "Critical Role"-ish heavy improv. I think one of the secrets of D&D's success is that it's easily adaptable to a number of different playstyles. I suppose baking one particular approach into your rules might make sense from a niche marketing standpoint, but man, the first time my barbarian got disadvantage for "just" swinging his greatsword, I would get up and leave. But as I said, I'm sure there are tables where this approach will absolutely hit the spot, so good luck with it.
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Just got off a call with my buddies where we created characters for a DC20 game I'll be DMing for them! Super stoked to get my first hands on experience with your system!!
Omg that’s so exciting! I hope y’all have a freaking BLAST!
how did it go?
An idea for you: Give players the option to add one "attrition" dice to their roll (any dice size they are willing to risk) , however they also take the value of the “attrition" dice in damage, to represent their struggle in battle.
This way players can more gurantee they win the combat challenge but sacrifice some health regardless.
To convert to dc20 the attrition dice damage could be static based on the dice size they chose.
Love this idea!
This is basically how I designed combat for the Quick & Dirty RPG System, via a skill challenge-like system. It's very cinematic while still making player choices matter.
Probably the major difference between Q&DRPG and DC20 in this regard is that there is no tallying up of success points in Q&DRPG. Instead, the narrative changes after each dice roll in a direct, diegetic manner rather than tallying up a non-diegetic resource and then coming up with a post-hoc narrative after the fact. I'm not saying that that's bad, but it can be immersion-breaking for some who are more averse to story-gamey mechanics.
In either case, the inclusion of these skill challenge systems is a big plus in my book and makes me want to try out DC20 more than other post-OGL debacle, D&D derivatives currently in production.
For D&D conversion, I'd personally use the proficiency dice rule (d4 to d12 scaling).
Sorry just wondering you use this scaling for what? The damage the players take on a failure or?
This sounds awesome for running random encounters, or just any combat that makes sense for the story but wouldn't be tactically interesting enough to be fun as a full combat!
One thing I really like about this mechanic is that it works both ways: a means to avoid superfluous combat encounters AND as a way to wrap up a combat encounter where the main challenge has passed and everyone is just going through the motions of cleanup.
I DM a table that uses an Unholy amalgamation of your system and 5e. In a few weeks they'll be heading into a ruined city full of hoards of undead. I absolutely CANT WAIT to do it as a combat skill challenge!!
Coach you're doing a great job and are such an inspiration. Ty so much and keep up the great work!
So for the past couple of months I've been planning a large scale fight and I've looked up many videos trying to figure out how best to do this. At one point I was making a small war game for the players which I realized very quickly, would really only limit options/choices rather than inspire creativity. This system helps alot and is a great tool for any DM (DC20 or 5e or even pathfinder if you are willing to be ok with focusing on narrative over crunchy rules). Thanks coach!
Coach. I can't tell you how greatful I am for this video rn. About to hop into a DC20 one shot and I needed to remember how to run these.
We tried it for the first time last thursday. The "communication intermediary" (Discord, in that case) turn this task into a difficult one because (you know it) Discord or Zoom or whatever creates a kind of Jell'o wall in which we are all stuck. Simple communication becomes harder in a group (who's talking to who, for whom is this answer, etc. And I don't talk about these micro delays that turn casual and dynamic conversations into difficult journeys) We must practice but I would be really happy to try it in person.
This being said, I litterally ADORE this challenge things! Good job! An excellent trademark. I'm really enthousiast.
Thank you for sharing the one time payment option online! Ive been a fan of your content for years from when it was just homebrew advice but never been able to pay for patreon. so thanks for catering to people like me.
also right now Iv'e been loving videos that i can watch to help myself learn the rules/character creation of your game. (ideally I would like to send them to players at my table when trying to switch them over to your new system)
I'm super happy to support you finally for all the help you gave me for game prep, keep up the great work!
Would really like to see a BBEG/mini boss template sort of video, so we DM's can go ahead and sort of "plan out" our bigger encounters, already got my players to switch from 5e or DC20, but I (me specifically) am having issues with boss level enemies attributes and such. love the work, keep it up!
💜💜💜
This sounds like something that could be really useful for my colosseum Free for all battle 😊
Omg! You could do this across multiple rounds! With other epic stuff happening between!
@TheDungeonCoach the plan was for 2players to be down in the arena, and 1 is up on the view part. (3man party)
I got planned for first a mass battle, then monsters of epic proportion will appear and the players must team up with the other contestants.
I do have some problems running this, since it's a lot of people... 8 entrances to the arena and arena is 600×600 feet 😆
@TheDungeonCoach wouldn't be possible to make a vid about an event challenge system? 😅🤣
I played the 0.4 Alpha along with it's little one shot. Great fun! I wrote notes, and took feedback from the players. Stuff like typos, unclear rules, or thoughts on the design. Wondering if you're taking feedback @The Dungeon Coach? Can I send it somewhere?
On the discord server, there is a thread for feedback! I would love to hear it!!! 💜💜💜
Thank you for this video! We created DC20 characters yesterday, and Friday we'll be doing the adventure that came with it. So this helps me feel more familiar with the intent behind the adventure. Plus, I love the idea of skill checks anyways, and want to use them more :). So I see skill checks as it's own, well, GM skill to get better at.
I’m ready to get my hands on this game. Keep the good work up dude ❤
I had an idea for HP in DnD I’ve wanted to try out but need to find a group first. Not sure if it would work in DC20 but here it is lol. It’s a simple stamina system where maybe the first 3 levs make your HP pool and every lev after that makes a Stamina pool. It’s basically using the bloodied condition but visual for players. This gives the idea of every hit actually being “dodged” or “blocked” but drains stamina till they get really hit. That way you can flavor a bite attack from a adult dragon as a near miss instead of wondering how the pc still is kicking when the teeth are as big as him 😂. Also makes sense as to why you heal so much at a rest and you can add more mechanics to it if you wanted.
this subsystem is perfect to simulate "grinding" in a Isekai/MMO style campaign
First of all - Really love this! An idea to help this concept is to track progress through a progress clock (a core mechanic introduced in TTRPG’s like Blade in the Dark). Basically a pie chart evenly divided into # of sectors.
Second of all, I have a temptation to use this in PvP combat - For when players want to have a training combat or even settle a dispute through non-lethal combat. It’d even be easier to track if you used the progress clocks, making a clock per side. The first clock to hit success would take the other down, discussed openly through the entire party. Thoughts on whether this would go well or not?
So basically, a one round, freeform event instead of combat to speed up lesser encounters?
Dude, you're a genius.
This reminds me of Ghost of Tsushima, where you can, instead of fighting a group of Mongols, issue a challenge and try to cut several of them down in a series of iai-do duels. That really helped make fighting groups of enemies feel less repetitive and tedious. You win a quick event, you might cut the group down by 1 to 3 or even 5.
Holy shit, the ability to have both turn based combat and combat skill challenges fit into the same system is something i never knew i needed.
This will speed up things a lot while still having attrition and consequences/complications!
Dang, DC20 sounds like a good time. When I get back to RPGs I'd love to give it a whirl
Hi Coach! Maybe somebody should tell you but your system of +5, -5 roll check system is official system of DnD in some encouters from DnD Starter Set "Phandalin The Shattered Obelisk" 🧐
O yea? I love “by 5s”
I didn’t know they did that! I wonder why they don’t do it as much now
@@TheDungeonCoach Correct me if I'm wrong:
"When a creature that can see the medusa's eyes starts its turn within 30 feet of the medusa, the medusa can force it to make a DC 14 Constitution saving throw if the medusa isn't incapacitated and can see the creature. If the saving throw fails by 5 or more, the creature is instantly petrified. Otherwise, a creature that fails the save begins to turn to stone and is restrained"
I’m really looking forward to getting to play DC20!
DC20 gets more interesting with each of these entries. I love granting narrative control to a player, so making all combat be collaborative storytelling is idealistic
Maybe this is a bigger discussion than a comment in this video, but I was actually thinking hard about the idea of making the players spend their resources before a big bad and I think I'm beginning to not like the idea. I understand why D&D does it. But I think it will condition the players into thinking that there will always be something bigger or more challenging coming, so they might spend most of their time just avoiding playing all of their tools, just because they want to leave all of their "good stuff" for the big bad.
This can lead players to not enjoy all of the character's abilities and fun gameplay because of their idea that they at some point MIGHT use them.
I'd really like to know what you think about that.
I solve this in DC20 by giving a LOT of abilities the use rate of "Once per Combat" I think that solves exactgly what your saying :)
Thank you for putting out yer own system.
This is much better than just home brewing 5e.
Thanks! This rly helped me understand how to actually run the fight Scenario. Awesome
Hi, you said there was gameplay content coming for DC20 by others. Where can I look out for those?
You say this can be used to wear down their resources. And not only Hp. But how can you do that when they don't spend mana points/spell slots?
I really like the idea in most situations, but I would like an option if I want them to spend resources. I think this could be an advantage for non-spell functions as their resources could come back more easily, such as: Sneak Attack, Action Surge, or Bardic Inspiration..
Excited to see how this goes, Coach! Are there any plans for alternate settings for DC20? Is it going to be strictly high fantasy, or is there some room in there for weird west or sci-fi or something like that?
Im wondering how to runing this in my campaign that involves guns. I want them to do a type of "run n gun" where the party has to get to point B while dodging bullets.
It's a bit like Blades in the Dark - yet not exactly... it sounds amazing, really!
You need to play Tunnels and Trolls, a 1d6 game
You either design a game that has a cinematic approach, prioritizing narration over mechanics. Focusing on fast action and quick turns, collaborative story telling and simple straight-to-the-point gameplay.
Or you design a game that's focused on offering a tactical resource-management with positioning, turn-management, and action/reaction economy. You know: what this guy described: th-cam.com/video/ud9b2HnLvDE/w-d-xo.html
Question about DC20 - can you use the help action as a reaction?
In DC20, you have 4 actions which can be used also as reactions. But the more often you do something in a round, the weaker it becomes. This is usually done by the Multiple Check Penalty, where each action you take that rolls a check grants disadvantage (which can stack) on all future checks until next turn. (Checks include attacks, maneuver checks, spellcasting checks, etc.) The Help action grants a +1d8 bonus which lowers to a +1d6 on its 2nd use, then down to a +1d4 on its 3rd use. I think he has a video on his channel explaining the 4 action system in depth, if you were interested in more specific details. :)
I think Daggerheart is using a similar initiative system in their game... their logic being, "well you don't have a turn order for social encounters..." Which.... is not necessarily a bad argument. But monsters don't have turns they just "respond" to the players actions and it's just a back and forth.
Wow. That is a nifty spin on combat. It does take the opposite approach from DND 4E. DND 4E focuses more on tactical and detailed cobat. I don't think either side is objectivly better. It would depend on player preference. 4E was an attempt to appeal to those that play video games, like Workd of Warcraft. However it ended up having a big backlash from DND veterans. 5E was a compromise between the two groups. There was more detail vs less detail. Those that have fun with more strategy and tactics are better off using minitures. They would especially benefit from 4E. Those that have fun with more imagination and storytelling are better off using theater of the mind. They would especially benefit from the combat skill challenge described in this video. I don't know what side I would be on. I am not experienced enough to make a choice. I would like to try both approaches. One can even use both to make a campaign more varied. The combat skill challenge is great for small encounters, like barfights, random encounters and fighting minions. The tactical fight is great for bosses. One can even make a rule that magical reasources are only used during the bosses. Then the magicians can put thier best foot forward and unleash some truely anazing magical effects. Poor warlocks. Thry get picked on so easily. I think there should be a house rule allowing the DM to restore reasources of classes dependent on short rests. The DM should restore at thier discression, whenever they are done in battle. If there are going to be special tactical boss fights, they should be followed by a short rest or some short term resiration of magical resources. The warlock can use thier powerful spells on the boos. They are confident that they will get thier resources after battle.
Stealing the hell out of this for my Shadow of the Demon Lord campaign (2). I will have to tweak it a little.
Distilled.... Like vodka...
26 min to tell me to use group skill test. '-'
Thanks for saving me the watch
This is wildly reductive but sure, it's literally called a skill challenge...
@@justinbader3885the comment is not reductive. The video is explaining all of the benefits and nuanced uses of a skill challenge lol.
Its informative and a good reminder/addition to DMs but it's not different.
Respect to the coach getting his bag and good videos, but if he woulda said "This is my systems take on Skill Challenge" I could see how that woulda made it more clear for OP.
I imagine there are groups who will really vibe with this approach...and others for whom it's just a little too abstract. I think it is maybe not a great fit with D&D, where characters are built with the current combat rules in mind. It would feel very anticlimactic to me if my paladin scored a holy smite on an undead beast, only to be told "Congrats, you get 1 success point".
And that bit where you punish players for being insufficiently "creative" (by your standards) really rubs me the wrong way. Playtesting with a bunch of TH-camrs (i.e., professional entertainers) may be skewing your perspective. You might be surprised how many players just plain aren't interested in that kind of "Critical Role"-ish heavy improv. I think one of the secrets of D&D's success is that it's easily adaptable to a number of different playstyles. I suppose baking one particular approach into your rules might make sense from a niche marketing standpoint, but man, the first time my barbarian got disadvantage for "just" swinging his greatsword, I would get up and leave.
But as I said, I'm sure there are tables where this approach will absolutely hit the spot, so good luck with it.
The "Critical Role" style is also heavily dependent on the DM as well. If they plan half assed you just find yourself asking questions.
TL;DW
BLUF
Bottom Line Up Front
too much talking about what if's and not focused on the purpose/subject of the video.