I like to remind everyone how very limited SETI is in fact. We do not listen all the time, don't look in all directions and use only certain search techniques. So far we aren't even done with searching a single drop from the entire ocean.
@@CarlosSpicyWang Calling them morons is a bit harsh. Saying that we're the only life is as invalid as saying that other life is out there. We simply don't know. Disregard my comment if you meant it in a sarcastic way lol, it's been a long day.
@@ICinnamonI You can pretty much guarantee that we are not the "only life out there". Everything in the universe is replicated and works on the same principles (chemistry and physics). The question is whether or not there is technological civilizations "out there", not life.
Also this search was only capable of finding type 2 civs. Since we're not even at 1, there could have been an abundance of civs around every star they looked at, just not at dyson-sphere building capability... or maybe they just found other 'quieter' ways to juice their progress
@@SevenSixTwo2012 I agree with the fact that it's extremely likely that we're not alone, based on what we know in chemistry and physics. But until we do there is no guarantee. My point is that we simply don't have proof for either. We can speculate, theorize and all that, but at the end of the day we still don't have the answer, no matter how likely it seems that life is out there. Is it incredibly likely that there is life besides us out there, based on what we know? Sure. Guarantee? Absolutely not.
I'm just really happy that there are other kinds of searches and serious studies like these going on! For sooo long these kinds of studies were not funded and I feel like, basically, the search is only just starting in recent years. Anyway, as always, you present the studies fairly and keep expectations super real. You're the best Anton!!!!
They weren't funded, because ivory tower scientists do not wish to find Alien civilizations... whether it's "out there" or in our own star system. This find would essentially decimate their egos and societal status, as they would no longer be the keepers of what we now perceive as the most advanced knowledge.
@mandelbraught2 I fail to understand your logic. I get what you mean but given the technological level we're at, what do you suggest?? Giving up or slowly but steady continue our efforts until we finally meet the requirements of intergalactic communication?
Anton, I wish you well. My dad bought me and my son some of your shirts for Christmas and they're just awesome. I got into space as a kid 20 years ago and I can't wait to share that with my boy.
It may be like trying to find a 1/100th of a needle in a solar system sized haystack but even if we picked up some relic of a transmission from 2B years ago that’d still be a win imo. The goal when searching for life isn’t to communicate with it anyway, it’s simply trying to prove its out there in any capacity.
@@amazzzed There's no such thing as a believer, in science, he just follows the facts and information presented. I think Anton would absolutely love to cover a legitimate discovery of alien life. He's even spoken about it before, he used to be a really big enthusiast about the search for intelligent life, but has realized scientific discovery is the only way to go about it.
@@TSOP2020 Most science is factual, so technically no? It just is regardless if you want to think it is real or false. Can it be adjusted or modified depending on new discoveries, yes, but again, it's just facts. You do a math equation, it's either right or wrong, there is no believing it is right or wrong.
I have no doubt that Life, Intelligent Life and even Civilizations have existed , exist now and will exist somewhere, somewhen in the universe. The problem is that distance = time and vice versa. So the likelihood of any civilizations being close enough at the same time to become aware of another much less actually communicate is Slim and None.
@@Strype13Do you have any independently verifiable 6σ peer-reviewed evidence of non-terestrial life. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence as Buzz Aldrin (pilot of the Apollo 11 Eagle) said. We have also done surveys of thousands of galaxies looking for excessive infrared. None found. Now JWST is looking at exoplanet atmospheres for non-natural gasses such as CFCs. None found. However we continue to look.
The hubris of thinking that somehow or other little bit of time span that we've had with technology, equates to being able to see all these technological civilizations, teaming around us... Maybe not hubris, but definitely a misunderstanding of not just the vastness of space but also of time, and I can think at the top of my head of eight civilizations on planet Earth that were on the cusp of becoming technologically sophisticated enough to have machinery, and who knows maybe that would have led to electronics, but failed to do so before being consigned to the dustbin of history. And think of how many times we almost disappeared off the face of this planet, in the last 80 years. What I would like to see is a rigorous mathematical study on how to detect an ever-increasing distances, a window of 80 years of technological noisiness followed by a big kaboom, and if we can technically actually see that from all the noise around
Yup. I'm pushing 70, and I've followed this stuff for over half a century. I loved the wacky UFO stuff, the sci-fi stuff, and the more sensible SETI stuff. But over the years, I've come to the same conclusion - there are probably aliens out there, and not just bugs either, but we will never have any contact with them. Some may have been dead for a billion years! (There does seem to be a small element of desperation creeping in - we are not looking for 'Them' - we are looking for 'Us' - but a better 'Us', a more evolved 'Us'! The problems of the world seem unresolvable, and we need Them to intervene).
hilarious degree of assurance here, that what we know enough about time and gravity to dismiss such travel, when even the greatest physicists admit both are still fundamentally mysterious
I always eagerly await your next video! Fortunately you produce a lot of content, and always great content. Everybody here would love to have a beer (other) with you and listen to you geek out on all things science and tech.
I still maintain that in order to properly search and attempt communication we should have communication buoys either on the outskirts of the system. Alternatively above and or below the Sun. Think of a radio tower being atop a mountain. It needs to be in a place that is easy to target and with minimal interference. it also needs to move as little as possible.
You could use the gravitational focal point of the sun and get something like 50billion times gain to a single solar system, or conversely, put a small telescope there and get high resolution images of planets and moons to about 100ly.
Something like a primitive coming to a more modern area, seeing no smoke signals or semaphore flags, and conclusively concluding that if there were any people inside the buildings, they are not communicating with each other... so there likely aren't any people in that city.
I believe that there is life out there, but a few decently good reasons why we haven’t heard from them. 1: we are the earlier life. 2: they communicate through quantum signals (if that’s even possible, sending data through entangled particles) or gravity or magnetism. 3: they started communicating when we did but are far away and the speed of light and radio and anything else takes time. 4: they died out already. It is likely that multicellular life could exist close to us on an undiscovered planet, but if so, it is not advanced, advanced a little later than we did, or simply isn’t there, being the most likely one. I do, however, think that in the future we could absolutely make contact with aliens, however the question being how fast can they travel, do they notice us, and do they have a genuinely good reason to come here?
Anton: Intriguing topic. It is possible that the way of communicating is different from ours. Different or more advanced technology, different way of communicating. ⚡️
Far side of the moon needs SEVERAL telescopic stations AND a network system of communication satellites in lunar orbit. This needs to be a priority above (or in collaboration with) human exploration as the primary targeted goal. ALSO, a solar system wide, fully integrated communications network (Jovian, Martian, and Terrain Lagrange points 3, 4, 5 of each). The science would be (Oxford definition) AWESOME. Deep space network (high speed), parallax observation satellites, and blissful silence of interference. I can only wonder if we ever manage a solar polar orbit communications network. (I’d love to see the math and cost proposals. And targeted science benefit analysis). Imagine a continuous laser grid accurate LIGO and communications broadband array of all these instruments! A Fleet of Nancy Grace Roman, LISA, x-ray, and microwave observatories… potentially achieve frequency resolution on the order of microhertz (μHz) or even better. What would the resultant science net our understanding? Amazing. AI filters, data processing and auto-targeting…. Wow.
You forgot the best kind, using the gravitational focus point of our star to get a 50 billion times boost in resolution. We could get high resolution images of planets and moons to 100ly and get detailed atmosphere measurement on planets crossing their star orbits anywhere in the Milky Way, perhaps even in other galaxies with better than james Webb observatories.
The distance between stars in our own galaxy, not to mention the distance between ours and other galaxies, is the main reason that we don't get signals from other intelligent life. The distance to the nearest star to us in our galaxy is about 4(four) light years. A radio signal from a distance of just 1(one) light year away would be nearly invisible in the cosmic background noise.
I don't think your assertion holds up. It's said that when Arecibo used radar to look at asteroids, the signal might be picked up 1000 light-years away.
@@sandal_thong8631 The transmission of electromagnetic radiation from a source to a receiver of that signal, like cell phone signals, is subject to the inverse-square law, which states - The radiation inverse square law specifies that: the intensity of the radiation goes down by the square of the distance from the source. For instance if you move twice as far from the source the intensity of the radiation will decrease by a factor of 4 - which is why the further you get from a cell tower, the worse the reception is. Now imagine that, not in miles, but in light years from the source.
We need a paradigm shift in physics. There are answers we will never know because we can’t see smaller than a point or faster than light. I think someone should say nothing travels faster than light that we can detect and only energy can travel at above light speed. All these scientists are mortified of each other’s critique to the point that none of them will share the absurdities that they have examined in collaboration. They’re scared to death of religion for their funding so they tiptoe around us and look at each other in silence with so much to say that can rescue physics from a near 40 year Plateau. Let’s correctly assume only energy can travel faster than light and open up the universe for open minded discovery. I guess I had a lot to say. Peace
Seen the alien vessels 18x. Amazing tech. There is a war going. I propose ComET…directed communication with the local alien community. This will assure that government lying ends.
Our shield is even better than the dark forest - show them we're here, and then fill the airwaves with videos showing what happened to all the independent cultures who encounter Earth capitalism over time. And then welcome the ETs here - we'll even give their kids free McDonald's for a month, and a free sub to Disney+! Yeah, no, they give us a wide berth.
I haven't had time for keeping tabs on SETI in specific and space exploration in general for a long while so I am very grateful for your channel being able to give me these concise and accessible updates about the newest information within the field Anton. Absolutely fascinating that SETI is becoming better at identifying "false alarms" from things like pulsars and mechanical glitches, and that they've started going through old telescope data for possible signatures.
SETI's approach to finding intelligent ET's is the equivalent of pointing a drinking straw up in the air in some random public space in the hopes of it catching some stray spittle from someone's mouth as they communicate... and defining that spittle as evidence of the existence of intelligent life. 🤣
It would seem to me that there might be many Civilizations out there that may have reached our level anyway. They'd be using radio, but not necessarily much in the Ghz region. Their signals usually mean't for terrestrial use would be too weak for us to pickup. Meanwhile the really advanced Civilizations would have gone to exotic communication systems that we dont yet utlilize.
If there really exists aliens they'd probably already be on TH-cam, making awesome science videos, speaking with cool accent and greeting people wonderfully 😁
@@davidkachel some aliens might do that, but all of them? I bet there's also diversity in alien cultures, thus, they're already with us or they're ultra-rare or they don't exist (anymore or at all?).
@@ulrikof.2486 "All of them"?!! We have had radio for slightly more than 100 years. On a galactic scale, that is not even a nanosecond. We have already come close to wiping ourselves out several times. If we get lucky, we MIGHT not wipe ourselves out for two or three more galactic microseconds. Any civilization that has not developed radio yet is unavailable to us for discovery, and any civilization that is more advanced than us has almost certainly developed a more efficient means of communication that gets around the ridiculously slow speed of light: also unavailable to us! (And if so, they wouldn't think to try radio.) That leaves only those civilizations existing for a similar nanosecond, at exactly the same time as us. Two nanosecond civilizations existing at precisely the same nanosecond?!! Ain't gonna happen. There could be millions of civilizations out there and probably are... but just at a different "when". Fermi's question was a dumb one. He should have asked, "WHEN are they?"
Looking towards the center of our galaxy doesn't seem like it would be a very fruitful search. The closer towards the center you'd get the higher the radiation gets. Life as we know it would be impossible there.
I would also think there might be more perturbations of the orbits of planets due to stars being closer together. Seems this might disrupt the climate which might inhibit technologically advance species from arising.
in the universe? that wouldn't be right. even accounting time, there are billions of planets out there. there has to be at least another civilization really, really far away from us. sure we won't ever find them in the next 500 years or so at the very least, but they're probably there.
I use to lend my computer over to SETI back when they use to use people’s computers to help find any signals. It was way back in late 90’s early 2000’s.
some of the images from the papers caught my eye, im a fiber artist and they look like they would make great weavings. i know an odd thing to be inspired by.
When search for extra-terrestrial signals, we have to keep in mind that we are searching for signals in distant past. The diameter of our galaxy is in the order of 350,000 light-year with a radius of about 170,000 light-year. When searching for a signal extra-terrestrial in our galaxy, we are searching for a signal emitted long before modern humas existed. The situation is far more dramatic when searching in other galaxy. The Andromeda Galaxy is at 2.54 million light years away. Any signal from an alien civilization in Andromeda Galaxy would imply a civilization more than 2.5 million older than us after using electro-magnetic comunication and much more advanced.. That's a scary thought! Extrapolating to other galaxies further away get even more scarier.
It’s just more evidence faster than light travel simply isn’t possible. Also that an incredibly advanced society would be very fast paced and information focused, simply traveling a short cosmic distance means thousands or millions of years pass for everyone else while seconds count for society they leave behind. It’s simply not possible to have a cohesive society when space is ultimately insanely isolating.
Calculating the odds of non-terestrial life requires mathematics. And math requires a minimum of 2 numbers to estimate odds: #1 the number of planets in the Milky Way and #2 the probability that a planet hosts life. We have an idea of #1 but absolutely no idea of #2.
Thanks, Anton. This is something that’s fascinated me since I was a child. That said, I believe that if there is advanced intelligent life out there, they may well have found other forms of long distance communication that are way ahead of us. I also think there’s an inherent anthropomorphic projection on to this topic. (Or, maybe that’s a little too much Star Trek shaping my young, impressionable mind!) But, we have to start somewhere!
I think we vastly overestimate how robust synthetically generated radio signals are; as well as our capability to accurately detect them over vast distances. It requires a herculean effort for humans to generate a radio signal that would be intelligible at the distance the Voyager probes are traveling at; and it's only about 1 light day away. We simply aren't capable of generating a radio signal with enough energy to travel two light days. The inverse square law is very unkind to human generated radio signals over astronomical distances: every time a radio signal doubles it's distance, it's amplitude drops by half. Radio signals generated by humans don't even escape the solar system before dropping well below the noise floor of the CMB. Why would we assume another civilization elsewhere in the galaxy wouldn't have the same limitation? There's also the dynamic differences in local radio sources to consider: Compared to the radio noise emitted by the sun, the earth is like the sound of a mouse squeaking next to a hydrogen bomb detonating. Over an astronomical distance the radio noise generated by the sun will vastly overwhelm and scramble any stray radio traffic generated by the Earth that leaks into space. Again; why would we assume that another similar civilization to our own wouldn't be looking at the same limitation? SETI is a great idea and it's work is extremely important, but I personally don't think it's ever likely to detect ET phoning home via radio signals. Not because those signals aren't there, they're just much too faint to travel that distance without dissipating into the ringing ears of the universe: the CMB.
Consider how many years we used to get to this point of technology. Try to predict how advanced or "ascended" aliens would be compared to us in just a couple of hundred years. Now compare to the age of the universe. the odds of us connecting to an alien race even remotely compatible to is technology-wise is abyssmal.
We're very special here. Even a blade of grass is a highly complex and unique product of life on this ONE planet within probably 10 average-sized galaxies (according putting some numbers into the Drake equation) which has a manipulative intelligence on it.
There is no 6σ, independently verifiable and peer-reviewed evidence of non-terestrial life. Fuzzy gun camera b&w photos are fun to look at but do not constitute evidence.
It's important not to lose sight of the fact that SETI is NOT a "search for extraterrestrial INTELLIGENCE". Rather, it is a search for extraterrestrial TECHNOLOGY. The distinction is important because while technology implies intelligence, the reverse does not hold. It seems most likely, based on the evidence that has come to light to date, that life at the microbial level will turn out to be ubiquitous, occurring wherever conditions allow. Higher order life (think: plants and animals) will be orders of magnitude rarer. Intelligent life orders of magnitude rarer still, and technologically capable life rarest of all. Thus, a search for biological markers is more likely to yield positive results than a search for technological ones.
Awesome video as always! However I don't get why now that we have a bill signed by potus where we have the definition of NHI, very few scientists interested in SETI are fighting to get access to classified sensor data about uap.
Well you see, half a dozen congressmen, who happen to be on the payrolls of certain Defense companies mentioned in the UAP Bill, have blocked the UAPDA and have eliminated the definition ls and terms of "NHI". So yea... 👽🇺🇸
Maybe they are not using radio frequency, but something like neutrinos or other methods that will not interact with matter and it will keep the signal clean of disturbances on long ranges. If I would have to communicate on very long distances that is what I would try to convert the information to.
There is so damn much we do not know! Until we discover intelligent life, we won't know if it exists. Speculation is fun and it can generate lots of ideas to advance the science. Humanity will find out, when we find out. Thanks for keeping us up to date, Anton!
While these studies are certainly commendable it’s important to recognize they are barely scratching the surface of what’s possible to detect. The galaxy is a very big volume, the number of stars astounding and the possible modes of communication, modes of technology signal leakage and types of techno signatures imaginable (or beyond imaginable because the technology and science is so foreign), so to detect anything with what we have deployed so far would be unlikely.
If there are aliens out there and they want to stay hidden then making your radio signals blend with the background noise would be a good way to do it.
There may be plenty alien civilizations with technology but we be the only one of a very small minority that knows or knew about radio waves and how to transmit and receive radio waves.
I think we might be the first, or one of the first, spacefaring civilizations in our part of the cosmos. Intelligent life, with the ability to become spacefaring or at least communicate across space, seems like it is very rare. At least to me given my current assumptions about spacefaring civilizations that spread themselves out enough to make their extinction unlikely.
maybe very few of them use typical radio signals like our own while the rest took a different technological route, creating and utilising something undetectable by human inventions?
SETI have admitted; if the visible universe was reduced to the size of all the earths combined oceans then the region we have searched would less than a glass of water. How about that Anton?
The visible universe is insanely huge. Being at a level of a "glass of water of our oceans" already is a massive accomplishment. But I don't know why all of the visible universe is that interesting for such a search right now. We can't travel or communicate with someone outside of the Milky Way and even if we ever detect an alien messages from another galaxy, it will be insanely ancient and the source might not be existent anymore, at the point in time, when we identify such a signal. The Milky Way should be our priority, starting with everything close to our location, not somewhere in the Andromeda galaxy for example.
That isn't the relevant issue at hand, though. The overarching problem is the fact that distance equates to time, and the likelihood of any civilizations being close enough at the same time to become aware of one another borders on absolute zero. If we scaled everything down to subatomic levels where the Earth is microscopic and the Sun is the size of the period at the end of this paragraph... the nearest galaxy would be 250,000,000 miles away. Even at subatomic scales, the distances involved become astronomical almost instantaneously.
@@johndonson1603 But there is no doubt, that intelligent alien life exists, if the universe really is infinite in size. Or in other words: It is impossible, that we are alone in an infinite universe. I'm unaware, that there is a debate regarding this at all (sure there is, but this is more a philosophical one in my opinion). The real question is, how often intelligent life develops and where the next intelligent civilisation is located. This is where the debate really starts. Some claim life basically develops everywhere and the closest example of intelligent life is just around the corner. We'll propably meet soon with each other. Others claim it is rather rare and that maybe we're the only intelligent civilisation in the Milky Way itself right now and that others might be much farther away. In other galaxies for example. So far in fact, that we'll never be able to get in contact with each other. I tend to believe the later version. I also don't know how we're supposed to identify such a civilisation in another galaxy. But even if we do - the hype would be insane. How do we tell everybody, that these signals are millions of years in the past and that this intelligent civilisation is most likely dead by now? That there is no chance to establish contact? Do you think this would really end the debate for good? I think it would cause much bigger issues for human society.
You mean your woefully ineffective "search" not actual search which implies interstellar travel, landing on exoplanet's. Search grounded in reality and not in fantasy.
I understand the problem regarding the distance vs noise issue. But we should be sensitive enough with our present technology to find signals from millions of light years away, if aliens had ever used structured radio waves. There should be a constant stream whilst they started their communication journey. Unless we missed that period in their history, because we hadn't reached that level ourselves. But that's just one alien civilization we're talking about. The fact that we're listening to a lot of nothing is the most striking thing.
The challenge is much bigger than the effort. The distances are huge. Life signs are difficult even for the less advanced life forms and the tech ones probably travel and communicate on an entirely different level (in fact they must if they are space farers). Still the spectral surveys of known planets in the "goldilocks" zones is not very encouraging, if the key elements are not present.
Being closer to stars might be worse to find life. A star that goes Super Nova or transitions to a different star might be worse to other star systems around them. Those explosion or other, might affect the atmosphere of said planets of other star systems.
so far we haven't even looked at 1% of the observable universe and everything that we thought rare is not really that rare add on that purely mathematics of how often "things" happen its extremely more unlikely that we are alone / unique than not
If you are making a mathematical argument for extraterrestrial life then two quantities are required: #1 the number planets in the Universe and #2 the probability that a planet hosts life. We now have a rough idea of #1 but absolutely no idea of #2. None.
It seems that since we live in a remote arm of the galaxy, it would make sense to look in other remote parts. This is in part because supernovi cleanse the more dense parts of life far more frequently. Just a thought.
Supernovae and kilonovae are necessary for creating then seeding star-forming nebulae with elements need for rocky planets. Without them the only planets that can form are gas giants.
How ridiculous. You mean that no civilization in a galaxy billions of light years away is beaming a radio signal with as much power as the Sun directly at us? And then waiting billions of years for a reply? Shocking. I would have thought that this would be very common.
I don't think a high concentration of stars gives good odds for long-term biospheres in fact I think that we will most likely only find such things on the outskirts of galaxies
I think that in the future, we will use laser &/or maser linked telescopes in a triangular formation to create an Earth orbit wide aparture. Later, we may use a Trigonal Bipyramidal configuration. These may exist out there like beacons of Alien technosignatures.
Given the Advent of the discovery of quantum entanglement you'd think we could use that to make faster than light Communications and that's what I would assume any advanced civilization would use, just my two cents
I fathom the problem lies not within our methods but rather in the fact that we are looking for radio signals. There is a possibility that alien civilizations might use lasers for communication since it is far more effective in numerous ways.
We need to take a closer look at this Kardashev classification: Whether advanced civilizations really increase the flow of energy - and even produce exceptionally powerful radio signals: I'm pretty sure such an assumption is simply wrong. In our civilization, for example, radio signals have become quieter over the past 40 years.
10^26 Watt ! (!!) That is just an really insane power.... Conclusion: Yes, no civilizations like that; but that does not surprise at all. Every civilization to survive for eons would have to be a bit smarter than just throwing terawatts (per person) into space. You just do not need that for a decent living.
How likely is it that "alien" transmissions would be detectible unless they were directed specifically at us? It's hard to imagine how much energy it would take for a signal to be readable for 10s, 100s, 1000s, etc. of lightyears in all directions. You would aim the transmission energy at your intended target, NOT blast the whole universe. So, if they aren't trying to talk to us specifically, are we likely to hear them?
Even assuming that life, intelligence, and technology aren't so improbable that any ETs are at least a few galaxies away, our civilization's technology is trending towards lower energy consumption for any given task and reduced pollution, and our population towards diminishing or even negative growth as we urbanize. If that's common among technological species then it would be highly unlikely that we would ever spot anyone during the brief noisy burst of development before they settled back down into a clean, quiet low density population that has little pressure to expand into space, and equally unlikely that we would spot them before they likely self-destructed if they didn't.
As always excellent mind warm up with Anton. Just maybe there is life everywhere where it’s not being cooked to death or frozen in near perpetuity. Then the question of why are we here is meaningless
If there is really is alien life, you're spot on. Then life isn't special. It isn't a gift from a higher power, and secular concepts break down since it's no longer theoretical to believe on alien life.
I have some thinking as to "why we are here" but it is very dark. We are an energy dissipation interval. All life is dissipating energy al the time, sustained by new inputs of energy from the sun. Surplus builds up like an arc which discharges electrical potential which has built up. Intelligent life dials that up to 11. ETI can only exist where there is a lot of negentropy or high order of energy stores like concentrated mineral bodies or carbon sources. An intelligent technological life can not arise in its absence. The planet wants to "shake it off. Energy wants to run downhill like water to more entropy and gives rise to an organism to do that quickly, more quickly than slower moving nature. Once that is done so are we. Even if we leave the planet we will meet energy consumption limits somewhere as the sphere of entropy of our own making overtakes us, and very quickly on a cosmological timescale. Intelligent life lives fast and short. We are here now but will soon be gone, determined by other physics realities, proud and hubristic but short lived. I think ETs do not normally contact each other because their time frames keep missing each other. This sort of thinking has 2 effects. Extreme existential angst and depression and, if one can ride that doomer bummer, arrive at making peace with that reality and becoming immune to depression in the face of anything life has to throw at us. To get to enlightenment one has to go through hell first.
@@coweatsman Intriguing both scientifically and philosophically. Single cell organisms took less than a half a billion years to appear on earth and it took 3 billion years for single cell organisms to create multi-cell organisms they can live and survive in at first, and another 600 million years forward to you and I. I suggest life is inhalant quality of the universe waiting its time that might never come or be short lived. Where I disagree without mentioning any intelligent design beside our own manipulation of the world that is manmade, is that there are at least 5 layers of being in philosophical makeup of human self, starting with only physical layer on the outside and the Ego layer as the innermost layer. If one befriends their ego’s ambition with plans of constructing a future filled with opportunities that feeds their ego while in harmony with inner conscientiousness and morality befitting their society, the hell you talk about of what they have to go through, will be a cake walk, because it’s not resisted as if it was imposed. It’s a path in a Journey of self arrival. Wisdoms is mastering patterns where enlightenment is a rare phenomena, few seconds a few times in an entire lifetime. A healthy mind will not go through hell for things beyond its control on the outside when all its important control surfaces can only be discovered inside and at its disposal.
@@coweatsman to your point, we are infinite possibility. It's possible there will be future life that will be able to meet but we may not be in that situation
If a species of infinitely advanced beings need to communicate with eachother; what makes us so sure they would use em signals? What would stop them from encoding information onto a gravitational wave? Since distance is a limitation for em waves, perhaps they use other dimensions that we can't "see". I appreciate having the seti institute, those people do great work; especially Jodi foster! But I can't help but feel like we're barking up the wrong tree.
I strongly suspect non-Human life on Earth is far more intelligent than we're able to perceive. We constantly find out that our own ancestors were more intelligent than we thought. So, I think its completely irrelevant to search for 'intelligent life' elsewhere, when we don't even recognize it here.
Great job Anton - the search continues. I don't think trying to find radio signals will be the way we discover something though. The vast distances are such a huge hurdle to overcome. Plus you have different types of intelligences. For example on Earth some civilizations discovered the wheel, some knew about it but never found it useful and some never discovered it. And as we know, natural selection vastly prefers instincts over intelligence - so there might be life someplace else - but its instinctual.
If extraterrestrial life forms are anywhere near as smart as us & have been around for longer, they're probably using Quantum encrypted Communications using quantum entanglement to communicate across long distances....
There could have been a space fairing civilization in half the galexy and their final signals just hit us 40 years ago. How would we ever know? The odds of civilizations coenciding is astranomical.
Why we don't detect already exists technology? We know how they worked, and what type of signature expect. Just looking at The Earth from far away (WEBB?), do some suggestions and using an existing telescope detect same signals.
I’d love to comment but typically I get bullied off the comments in about an hour if I even so much as say the word alie-actually I’ll just not say it. Thanks Anton for the vid as always
Seems to me that an advanced civilization might well have abandoned the use of electromagnetic waves ( laser, radio, etc ) long ago. Humans have used radio for a little over 120 years. I can't imagine that we won't find something better in the next 500 years... so, if we find radio or optical signals they would likely be from a civilization close to ours in terms of technical development. That really reduces the number of possible civilizations we can detect....other civilizations are not only distant in space but also in time. A 'radio civilization' would be one that is near to us in terms of time, no matter how distant. What might a civilization 10,000 years more advanced than we are use for communication? I don't know what it could be, but I bet you it WON'T be radio.
We have radio communication, the internet and even experiment with entangled quantum stuff. Still we have newspapers, books and write letters. Sure, we might invent a lot of crazy tech in the future, but that does not mean we will stop using the older stuff.
@@billmilosz nope, you didn't refute mine, which is that a new way to communicate doesn't erase all older ones. Learn about logical fallacies and how to think critically. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, it's just that, an anecdote.
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I like to remind everyone how very limited SETI is in fact. We do not listen all the time, don't look in all directions and use only certain search techniques.
So far we aren't even done with searching a single drop from the entire ocean.
Morons: REEEEEEEEEEE WE'RE THE ONLY LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
@@CarlosSpicyWang Calling them morons is a bit harsh. Saying that we're the only life is as invalid as saying that other life is out there. We simply don't know. Disregard my comment if you meant it in a sarcastic way lol, it's been a long day.
@@ICinnamonI You can pretty much guarantee that we are not the "only life out there". Everything in the universe is replicated and works on the same principles (chemistry and physics). The question is whether or not there is technological civilizations "out there", not life.
Also this search was only capable of finding type 2 civs. Since we're not even at 1, there could have been an abundance of civs around every star they looked at, just not at dyson-sphere building capability... or maybe they just found other 'quieter' ways to juice their progress
@@SevenSixTwo2012 I agree with the fact that it's extremely likely that we're not alone, based on what we know in chemistry and physics. But until we do there is no guarantee. My point is that we simply don't have proof for either. We can speculate, theorize and all that, but at the end of the day we still don't have the answer, no matter how likely it seems that life is out there. Is it incredibly likely that there is life besides us out there, based on what we know? Sure. Guarantee? Absolutely not.
I'm just really happy that there are other kinds of searches and serious studies like these going on! For sooo long these kinds of studies were not funded and I feel like, basically, the search is only just starting in recent years. Anyway, as always, you present the studies fairly and keep expectations super real. You're the best Anton!!!!
They weren't funded, because ivory tower scientists do not wish to find Alien civilizations... whether it's "out there" or in our own star system. This find would essentially decimate their egos and societal status, as they would no longer be the keepers of what we now perceive as the most advanced knowledge.
SETI searches should be easy. ET should be easy to spot. I am actually surprised they don't have an obvious presence in our solar system.
@mandelbraught2 I fail to understand your logic. I get what you mean but given the technological level we're at, what do you suggest?? Giving up or slowly but steady continue our efforts until we finally meet the requirements of intergalactic communication?
@@sadderwhiskeymann i personally suggest METI, let them find us
@@mandelbraught2728 ET should be 2x-3x the size of the full moon. There is nobody out there.
Anton, I wish you well. My dad bought me and my son some of your shirts for Christmas and they're just awesome. I got into space as a kid 20 years ago and I can't wait to share that with my boy.
It may be like trying to find a 1/100th of a needle in a solar system sized haystack but even if we picked up some relic of a transmission from 2B years ago that’d still be a win imo.
The goal when searching for life isn’t to communicate with it anyway, it’s simply trying to prove its out there in any capacity.
Honestly if we ever find aliens I expect Anton to be the one who tells me about it first.
@@amazzzedand he won't announce it until we're Sure
Avi Leob made a convincing case about omuamua. Anton disagreed.
@@amazzzed There's no such thing as a believer, in science, he just follows the facts and information presented. I think Anton would absolutely love to cover a legitimate discovery of alien life. He's even spoken about it before, he used to be a really big enthusiast about the search for intelligent life, but has realized scientific discovery is the only way to go about it.
@@Pengun3so.. you believe that there is “no believing” in science?
@@TSOP2020 Most science is factual, so technically no? It just is regardless if you want to think it is real or false. Can it be adjusted or modified depending on new discoveries, yes, but again, it's just facts.
You do a math equation, it's either right or wrong, there is no believing it is right or wrong.
I have no doubt that Life, Intelligent Life and even Civilizations have existed , exist now and will exist somewhere, somewhen in the universe. The problem is that distance = time and vice versa. So the likelihood of any civilizations being close enough at the same time to become aware of another much less actually communicate is Slim and None.
This is the exact conclusion that I wish more "believers" would familiarize themselves with. Well said, my friend.
@@Strype13Do you have any independently verifiable 6σ peer-reviewed evidence of non-terestrial life. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence as Buzz Aldrin (pilot of the Apollo 11 Eagle) said.
We have also done surveys of thousands of galaxies looking for excessive infrared. None found.
Now JWST is looking at exoplanet atmospheres for non-natural gasses such as CFCs. None found.
However we continue to look.
The hubris of thinking that somehow or other little bit of time span that we've had with technology, equates to being able to see all these technological civilizations, teaming around us... Maybe not hubris, but definitely a misunderstanding of not just the vastness of space but also of time, and I can think at the top of my head of eight civilizations on planet Earth that were on the cusp of becoming technologically sophisticated enough to have machinery, and who knows maybe that would have led to electronics, but failed to do so before being consigned to the dustbin of history. And think of how many times we almost disappeared off the face of this planet, in the last 80 years. What I would like to see is a rigorous mathematical study on how to detect an ever-increasing distances, a window of 80 years of technological noisiness followed by a big kaboom, and if we can technically actually see that from all the noise around
Yup. I'm pushing 70, and I've followed this stuff for over half a century. I loved the wacky UFO stuff, the sci-fi stuff, and the more sensible SETI stuff.
But over the years, I've come to the same conclusion - there are probably aliens out there, and not just bugs either, but we will never have any contact with them. Some may have been dead for a billion years!
(There does seem to be a small element of desperation creeping in - we are not looking for 'Them' - we are looking for 'Us' - but a better 'Us', a more evolved 'Us'! The problems of the world seem unresolvable, and we need Them to intervene).
hilarious degree of assurance here, that what we know enough about time and gravity to dismiss such travel, when even the greatest physicists admit both are still fundamentally mysterious
Its diffecult enough finding intelligent life here
Exceedingly, albeit distressingly accurate statement.
says the stupid lmao
For real.
accurate 💚
minor spelling mistake 😏
… the center of the Milky Way may have the highest concentration of stars, yes, but it also has the highest ungodly concentration of radiation!
I always eagerly await your next video! Fortunately you produce a lot of content, and always great content. Everybody here would love to have a beer (other) with you and listen to you geek out on all things science and tech.
I still maintain that in order to properly search and attempt communication we should have communication buoys either on the outskirts of the system. Alternatively above and or below the Sun.
Think of a radio tower being atop a mountain. It needs to be in a place that is easy to target and with minimal interference. it also needs to move as little as possible.
You could use the gravitational focal point of the sun and get something like 50billion times gain to a single solar system, or conversely, put a small telescope there and get high resolution images of planets and moons to about 100ly.
Wonderful presentation as always ANTON,TY for your diligence and hards work👍👍👍
Something like a primitive coming to a more modern area, seeing no smoke signals or semaphore flags, and conclusively concluding that if there were any people inside the buildings, they are not communicating with each other... so there likely aren't any people in that city.
As well put as possible. We don't know what to look for.
I believe that there is life out there, but a few decently good reasons why we haven’t heard from them. 1: we are the earlier life. 2: they communicate through quantum signals (if that’s even possible, sending data through entangled particles) or gravity or magnetism. 3: they started communicating when we did but are far away and the speed of light and radio and anything else takes time. 4: they died out already. It is likely that multicellular life could exist close to us on an undiscovered planet, but if so, it is not advanced, advanced a little later than we did, or simply isn’t there, being the most likely one. I do, however, think that in the future we could absolutely make contact with aliens, however the question being how fast can they travel, do they notice us, and do they have a genuinely good reason to come here?
Anton: Intriguing topic. It is possible that the way of communicating is different from ours. Different or more advanced technology, different way of communicating. ⚡️
Todavía nos falta investigar nuestro Sistema Solar. Podría existir quizás 🤔 algún tipo de vida microbiana.
@@franciscopagan3255¡Tienes razon!
If there are civilizations that employ quantum communication technologies, there's no way we'd be able to discover them right now.
Gravitational waves could be an option.
Far side of the moon needs SEVERAL telescopic stations AND a network system of communication satellites in lunar orbit. This needs to be a priority above (or in collaboration with) human exploration as the primary targeted goal.
ALSO, a solar system wide, fully integrated communications network (Jovian, Martian, and Terrain Lagrange points 3, 4, 5 of each). The science would be (Oxford definition) AWESOME. Deep space network (high speed), parallax observation satellites, and blissful silence of interference.
I can only wonder if we ever manage a solar polar orbit communications network. (I’d love to see the math and cost proposals. And targeted science benefit analysis). Imagine a continuous laser grid accurate LIGO and communications broadband array of all these instruments! A Fleet of Nancy Grace Roman, LISA, x-ray, and microwave observatories… potentially achieve frequency resolution on the order of microhertz (μHz) or even better. What would the resultant science net our understanding? Amazing. AI filters, data processing and auto-targeting…. Wow.
Ok smart guy, and how will you deal with the sharkpeople inhabitting the far side
You forgot the best kind, using the gravitational focus point of our star to get a 50 billion times boost in resolution. We could get high resolution images of planets and moons to 100ly and get detailed atmosphere measurement on planets crossing their star orbits anywhere in the Milky Way, perhaps even in other galaxies with better than james Webb observatories.
@@hugegamer5988 agreed. That is a super deep space option. The solar system communications array I detailed would be able to support that for sure!
@@timmyingelbrecht6977 if they are ever found, I’m sure they would be delicious! 🤪
Radio signals seem to be by far the most unlikely way we could ever detect the presence of another civiisation in the milky way.
The distance between stars in our own galaxy, not to mention the distance between ours and other galaxies, is the main reason that we don't get signals from other intelligent life. The distance to the nearest star to us in our galaxy is about 4(four) light years. A radio signal from a distance of just 1(one) light year away would be nearly invisible in the cosmic background noise.
I don't think your assertion holds up. It's said that when Arecibo used radar to look at asteroids, the signal might be picked up 1000 light-years away.
@@sandal_thong8631 The transmission of electromagnetic radiation from a source to a receiver of that signal, like cell phone signals, is subject to the inverse-square law, which states - The radiation inverse square law specifies that: the intensity of the radiation goes down by the square of the distance from the source. For instance if you move twice as far from the source the intensity of the radiation will decrease by a factor of 4 - which is why the further you get from a cell tower, the worse the reception is. Now imagine that, not in miles, but in light years from the source.
TY Anton for the news that if there is intelligent life elsewhere, they are smart enough to keep quiet. 👽 👾
shhh
The dark forest!!!
We need a paradigm shift in physics. There are answers we will never know because we can’t see smaller than a point or faster than light. I think someone should say nothing travels faster than light that we can detect and only energy can travel at above light speed. All these scientists are mortified of each other’s critique to the point that none of them will share the absurdities that they have examined in collaboration. They’re scared to death of religion for their funding so they tiptoe around us and look at each other in silence with so much to say that can rescue physics from a near 40 year Plateau. Let’s correctly assume only energy can travel faster than light and open up the universe for open minded discovery. I guess I had a lot to say. Peace
Seen the alien vessels 18x. Amazing tech. There is a war going. I propose ComET…directed communication with the local alien community. This will assure that government lying ends.
Our shield is even better than the dark forest - show them we're here, and then fill the airwaves with videos showing what happened to all the independent cultures who encounter Earth capitalism over time.
And then welcome the ETs here - we'll even give their kids free McDonald's for a month, and a free sub to Disney+!
Yeah, no, they give us a wide berth.
I haven't had time for keeping tabs on SETI in specific and space exploration in general for a long while so I am very grateful for your channel being able to give me these concise and accessible updates about the newest information within the field Anton. Absolutely fascinating that SETI is becoming better at identifying "false alarms" from things like pulsars and mechanical glitches, and that they've started going through old telescope data for possible signatures.
Wonderful as always Anton. Thank you. 😉👍
SETI's approach to finding intelligent ET's is the equivalent of pointing a drinking straw up in the air in some random public space in the hopes of it catching some stray spittle from someone's mouth as they communicate... and defining that spittle as evidence of the existence of intelligent life. 🤣
It would seem to me that there might be many Civilizations out there that may have reached our level anyway. They'd be using radio, but not necessarily much in the Ghz region. Their signals usually mean't for terrestrial use would be too weak for us to pickup. Meanwhile the really advanced Civilizations would have gone to exotic communication systems that we dont yet utlilize.
good comment
let's all recognize that Anton does *not* place ads in his videos and thank him for that
EDIT: forgot to put *not* in lol
I think you mean "does not"! Love Anton for ininhibited science news.
@@gmunny46fixed it
If there really exists aliens they'd probably already be on TH-cam, making awesome science videos, speaking with cool accent and greeting people wonderfully 😁
Or, they would be smart enough to give this planet a wide berth and go look for intelligence somewhere else!!
@@davidkachel that’s better than giving the planet a wide iron core asteroid which should be simple given they can move across star systems.
...all supervised by machines of loving grace :-)
@@davidkachel some aliens might do that, but all of them? I bet there's also diversity in alien cultures, thus, they're already with us or they're ultra-rare or they don't exist (anymore or at all?).
@@ulrikof.2486 "All of them"?!! We have had radio for slightly more than 100 years. On a galactic scale, that is not even a nanosecond. We have already come close to wiping ourselves out several times. If we get lucky, we MIGHT not wipe ourselves out for two or three more galactic microseconds. Any civilization that has not developed radio yet is unavailable to us for discovery, and any civilization that is more advanced than us has almost certainly developed a more efficient means of communication that gets around the ridiculously slow speed of light: also unavailable to us! (And if so, they wouldn't think to try radio.) That leaves only those civilizations existing for a similar nanosecond, at exactly the same time as us. Two nanosecond civilizations existing at precisely the same nanosecond?!! Ain't gonna happen. There could be millions of civilizations out there and probably are... but just at a different "when". Fermi's question was a dumb one. He should have asked, "WHEN are they?"
Looking towards the center of our galaxy doesn't seem like it would be a very fruitful search. The closer towards the center you'd get the higher the radiation gets. Life as we know it would be impossible there.
Yea but not finding anything let's hacks such as Neil deFrasse Tyson pat himself on the back for being so smart
@@vilelucaTyson is a legend in his own mind.
I would also think there might be more perturbations of the orbits of planets due to stars being closer together. Seems this might disrupt the climate which might inhibit technologically advance species from arising.
it would be a real bummer if we are the only intelligent life in the universe......
It actually looks like we are alone.
It's a big place, lots of possibilities.
in the universe? that wouldn't be right. even accounting time, there are billions of planets out there. there has to be at least another civilization really, really far away from us. sure we won't ever find them in the next 500 years or so at the very least, but they're probably there.
I use to lend my computer over to SETI back when they use to use people’s computers to help find any signals. It was way back in late 90’s early 2000’s.
The 5 stages of alien intelligence research:
- denial.
- anger.
- bargaining.
- depression.
- acceptance.
thanks for covering this topic!
Very cool thanks anton
i love the 2 min of calming music and silence at the end of the videos
some of the images from the papers caught my eye, im a fiber artist and they look like they would make great weavings. i know an odd thing to be inspired by.
I think science is a wonderful thing to inspire art of all kinds! Please share what you create!
When search for extra-terrestrial signals, we have to keep in mind that we are searching for signals in distant past. The diameter of our galaxy is in the order of 350,000 light-year with a radius of about 170,000 light-year. When searching for a signal extra-terrestrial in our galaxy, we are searching for a signal emitted long before modern humas existed. The situation is far more dramatic when searching in other galaxy. The Andromeda Galaxy is at 2.54 million light years away. Any signal from an alien civilization in Andromeda Galaxy would imply a civilization more than 2.5 million older than us after using electro-magnetic comunication and much more advanced.. That's a scary thought! Extrapolating to other galaxies further away get even more scarier.
It’s just more evidence faster than light travel simply isn’t possible. Also that an incredibly advanced society would be very fast paced and information focused, simply traveling a short cosmic distance means thousands or millions of years pass for everyone else while seconds count for society they leave behind. It’s simply not possible to have a cohesive society when space is ultimately insanely isolating.
"alien signals" are like "numbers stations", they often have no fixed frq and never repeat
there's probably an intergalactic freeway running straight through the planet's core... we're still listening to FM signals.
Lets not discount the thought that we are the first civilization. The evidence or lack of is growing.
There are aliens. Whether we can “discover” them or not. Thanks for the video.
very likely indeed. JUST FIND ONE PLEASE BEFORE I AM DEAD!
You should tell SETI about your insight. I'm sure they'd be happy to hear the question has been answered.
What is your independently verifiable 6σ evidence for evidence of non-terestrial life?
@@Duane_Day I can promise yout that we won't find any extraterrestrial civilizations.
@@douglaswilkinson5700 careful, you'll trigger him.
Figuring out how life started on Earth would be a major step towards calculating the odds of life existing elsewhere in the universe.
Calculating the odds of non-terestrial life requires mathematics. And math requires a minimum of 2 numbers to estimate odds: #1 the number of planets in the Milky Way and #2 the probability that a planet hosts life. We have an idea of #1 but absolutely no idea of #2.
Thanks, Anton. This is something that’s fascinated me since I was a child. That said, I believe that if there is advanced intelligent life out there, they may well have found other forms of long distance communication that are way ahead of us. I also think there’s an inherent anthropomorphic projection on to this topic. (Or, maybe that’s a little too much Star Trek shaping my young, impressionable mind!) But, we have to start somewhere!
I think we vastly overestimate how robust synthetically generated radio signals are; as well as our capability to accurately detect them over vast distances. It requires a herculean effort for humans to generate a radio signal that would be intelligible at the distance the Voyager probes are traveling at; and it's only about 1 light day away. We simply aren't capable of generating a radio signal with enough energy to travel two light days. The inverse square law is very unkind to human generated radio signals over astronomical distances: every time a radio signal doubles it's distance, it's amplitude drops by half. Radio signals generated by humans don't even escape the solar system before dropping well below the noise floor of the CMB. Why would we assume another civilization elsewhere in the galaxy wouldn't have the same limitation?
There's also the dynamic differences in local radio sources to consider: Compared to the radio noise emitted by the sun, the earth is like the sound of a mouse squeaking next to a hydrogen bomb detonating. Over an astronomical distance the radio noise generated by the sun will vastly overwhelm and scramble any stray radio traffic generated by the Earth that leaks into space. Again; why would we assume that another similar civilization to our own wouldn't be looking at the same limitation?
SETI is a great idea and it's work is extremely important, but I personally don't think it's ever likely to detect ET phoning home via radio signals. Not because those signals aren't there, they're just much too faint to travel that distance without dissipating into the ringing ears of the universe: the CMB.
Yeah. 👍
This doesn't mean much as finding anything is extremely difficult. But it is quite possible in this time and space, we are it.
Consider how many years we used to get to this point of technology. Try to predict how advanced or "ascended" aliens would be compared to us in just a couple of hundred years. Now compare to the age of the universe. the odds of us connecting to an alien race even remotely compatible to is technology-wise is abyssmal.
We're very special here. Even a blade of grass is a highly complex and unique product of life on this ONE planet within probably 10 average-sized galaxies (according putting some numbers into the Drake equation) which has a manipulative intelligence on it.
Love you Anton. Any reasonable investigation shows we are being visited now.
There is no 6σ, independently verifiable and peer-reviewed evidence of non-terestrial life. Fuzzy gun camera b&w photos are fun to look at but do not constitute evidence.
It's important not to lose sight of the fact that SETI is NOT a "search for extraterrestrial INTELLIGENCE". Rather, it is a search for extraterrestrial TECHNOLOGY. The distinction is important because while technology implies intelligence, the reverse does not hold. It seems most likely, based on the evidence that has come to light to date, that life at the microbial level will turn out to be ubiquitous, occurring wherever conditions allow. Higher order life (think: plants and animals) will be orders of magnitude rarer. Intelligent life orders of magnitude rarer still, and technologically capable life rarest of all. Thus, a search for biological markers is more likely to yield positive results than a search for technological ones.
Awesome video as always! However I don't get why now that we have a bill signed by potus where we have the definition of NHI, very few scientists interested in SETI are fighting to get access to classified sensor data about uap.
Well you see, half a dozen congressmen, who happen to be on the payrolls of certain Defense companies mentioned in the UAP Bill, have blocked the UAPDA and have eliminated the definition ls and terms of "NHI".
So yea...
👽🇺🇸
The only reason we "see" distant events is the huge amount of energy involved. Why would "intelligent life" send a signal that big?
they probably communicate through devices using superpositioned particles
Maybe they are not using radio frequency, but something like neutrinos or other methods that will not interact with matter and it will keep the signal clean of disturbances on long ranges. If I would have to communicate on very long distances that is what I would try to convert the information to.
There is so damn much we do not know! Until we discover intelligent life, we won't know if it exists. Speculation is fun and it can generate lots of ideas to advance the science.
Humanity will find out, when we find out. Thanks for keeping us up to date, Anton!
While these studies are certainly commendable it’s important to recognize they are barely scratching the surface of what’s possible to detect. The galaxy is a very big volume, the number of stars astounding and the possible modes of communication, modes of technology signal leakage and types of techno signatures imaginable (or beyond imaginable because the technology and science is so foreign), so to detect anything with what we have deployed so far would be unlikely.
If there are aliens out there and they want to stay hidden then making your radio signals blend with the background noise would be a good way to do it.
Honestly neutrino based communication is the obvious solution for other life forms to communicate with.
Why? Neutrino travel at sublight speeds. They a hard to detect. Etc.
There may be plenty alien civilizations with technology but we be the only one of a very small minority that knows or knew about radio waves and how to transmit and receive radio waves.
Intelligent life will be very quiet to allow their instruments to be more sensitive.
I think we might be the first, or one of the first, spacefaring civilizations in our part of the cosmos. Intelligent life, with the ability to become spacefaring or at least communicate across space, seems like it is very rare. At least to me given my current assumptions about spacefaring civilizations that spread themselves out enough to make their extinction unlikely.
maybe very few of them use typical radio signals like our own while the rest took a different technological route, creating and utilising something undetectable by human inventions?
We should explore more of the ocean.
SETI have admitted; if the visible universe was reduced to the size of all the earths combined oceans then the region we have searched would less than a glass of water. How about that Anton?
The visible universe is insanely huge. Being at a level of a "glass of water of our oceans" already is a massive accomplishment. But I don't know why all of the visible universe is that interesting for such a search right now. We can't travel or communicate with someone outside of the Milky Way and even if we ever detect an alien messages from another galaxy, it will be insanely ancient and the source might not be existent anymore, at the point in time, when we identify such a signal.
The Milky Way should be our priority, starting with everything close to our location, not somewhere in the Andromeda galaxy for example.
That isn't the relevant issue at hand, though. The overarching problem is the fact that distance equates to time, and the likelihood of any civilizations being close enough at the same time to become aware of one another borders on absolute zero. If we scaled everything down to subatomic levels where the Earth is microscopic and the Sun is the size of the period at the end of this paragraph... the nearest galaxy would be 250,000,000 miles away. Even at subatomic scales, the distances involved become astronomical almost instantaneously.
@@dnocturn84
The point is more that proof of an alien civilisation having existed is important, it ends the debate for good .
@@johndonson1603 precisely
@@johndonson1603 But there is no doubt, that intelligent alien life exists, if the universe really is infinite in size. Or in other words: It is impossible, that we are alone in an infinite universe. I'm unaware, that there is a debate regarding this at all (sure there is, but this is more a philosophical one in my opinion).
The real question is, how often intelligent life develops and where the next intelligent civilisation is located. This is where the debate really starts.
Some claim life basically develops everywhere and the closest example of intelligent life is just around the corner. We'll propably meet soon with each other. Others claim it is rather rare and that maybe we're the only intelligent civilisation in the Milky Way itself right now and that others might be much farther away. In other galaxies for example. So far in fact, that we'll never be able to get in contact with each other. I tend to believe the later version.
I also don't know how we're supposed to identify such a civilisation in another galaxy. But even if we do - the hype would be insane. How do we tell everybody, that these signals are millions of years in the past and that this intelligent civilisation is most likely dead by now? That there is no chance to establish contact? Do you think this would really end the debate for good? I think it would cause much bigger issues for human society.
You mean your woefully ineffective "search" not actual search which implies interstellar travel, landing on exoplanet's. Search grounded in reality and not in fantasy.
We're already moving onto space laser communications.
I understand the problem regarding the distance vs noise issue. But we should be sensitive enough with our present technology to find signals from millions of light years away, if aliens had ever used structured radio waves. There should be a constant stream whilst they started their communication journey. Unless we missed that period in their history, because we hadn't reached that level ourselves. But that's just one alien civilization we're talking about. The fact that we're listening to a lot of nothing is the most striking thing.
The challenge is much bigger than the effort. The distances are huge. Life signs are difficult even for the less advanced life forms and the tech ones probably travel and communicate on an entirely different level (in fact they must if they are space farers). Still the spectral surveys of known planets in the "goldilocks" zones is not very encouraging, if the key elements are not present.
Being closer to stars might be worse to find life. A star that goes Super Nova or transitions to a different star might be worse to other star systems around them. Those explosion or other, might affect the atmosphere of said planets of other star systems.
so far we haven't even looked at 1% of the observable universe and everything that we thought rare is not really that rare add on that purely mathematics of how often "things" happen its extremely more unlikely that we are alone / unique than not
If you are making a mathematical argument for extraterrestrial life then two quantities are required: #1 the number planets in the Universe and #2 the probability that a planet hosts life. We now have a rough idea of #1 but absolutely no idea of #2. None.
Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.
It seems that since we live in a remote arm of the galaxy, it would make sense to look in other remote parts. This is in part because supernovi cleanse the more dense parts of life far more frequently. Just a thought.
Supernovae and kilonovae are necessary for creating then seeding star-forming nebulae with elements need for rocky planets. Without them the only planets that can form are gas giants.
How ridiculous. You mean that no civilization in a galaxy billions of light years away is beaming a radio signal with as much power as the Sun directly at us? And then waiting billions of years for a reply? Shocking. I would have thought that this would be very common.
I don't think a high concentration of stars gives good odds for long-term biospheres in fact I think that we will most likely only find such things on the outskirts of galaxies
True. However, the metalicity and number of nebulae drops the further you get into the outskirts of the galaxy.
I think that in the future, we will use laser &/or maser linked telescopes in a triangular formation to create an Earth orbit wide aparture. Later, we may use a Trigonal Bipyramidal configuration. These may exist out there like beacons of Alien technosignatures.
Given the Advent of the discovery of quantum entanglement you'd think we could use that to make faster than light Communications and that's what I would assume any advanced civilization would use, just my two cents
I’m here!
Thanks for this 👍🎄
Thats sooooo funny.... I was thinking to myself if we were smart!! we would keep quiet too!! 😅😅
I fathom the problem lies not within our methods but rather in the fact that we are looking for radio signals. There is a possibility that alien civilizations might use lasers for communication since it is far more effective in numerous ways.
We need to take a closer look at this Kardashev classification: Whether advanced civilizations really increase the flow of energy - and even produce exceptionally powerful radio signals: I'm pretty sure such an assumption is simply wrong. In our civilization, for example, radio signals have become quieter over the past 40 years.
10^26 Watt ! (!!) That is just an really insane power.... Conclusion: Yes, no civilizations like that; but that does not surprise at all. Every civilization to survive for eons would have to be a bit smarter than just throwing terawatts (per person) into space. You just do not need that for a decent living.
How likely is it that "alien" transmissions would be detectible unless they were directed specifically at us? It's hard to imagine how much energy it would take for a signal to be readable for 10s, 100s, 1000s, etc. of lightyears in all directions. You would aim the transmission energy at your intended target, NOT blast the whole universe. So, if they aren't trying to talk to us specifically, are we likely to hear them?
Happy new year, Anton!
Life is out there. If we find them or not. But it’s fun to wonder about it
Even assuming that life, intelligence, and technology aren't so improbable that any ETs are at least a few galaxies away, our civilization's technology is trending towards lower energy consumption for any given task and reduced pollution, and our population towards diminishing or even negative growth as we urbanize. If that's common among technological species then it would be highly unlikely that we would ever spot anyone during the brief noisy burst of development before they settled back down into a clean, quiet low density population that has little pressure to expand into space, and equally unlikely that we would spot them before they likely self-destructed if they didn't.
As always excellent mind warm up with Anton. Just maybe there is life everywhere where it’s not being cooked to death or frozen in near perpetuity. Then the question of why are we here is meaningless
If there is really is alien life, you're spot on. Then life isn't special. It isn't a gift from a higher power, and secular concepts break down since it's no longer theoretical to believe on alien life.
I have some thinking as to "why we are here" but it is very dark. We are an energy dissipation interval. All life is dissipating energy al the time, sustained by new inputs of energy from the sun. Surplus builds up like an arc which discharges electrical potential which has built up. Intelligent life dials that up to 11. ETI can only exist where there is a lot of negentropy or high order of energy stores like concentrated mineral bodies or carbon sources. An intelligent technological life can not arise in its absence. The planet wants to "shake it off. Energy wants to run downhill like water to more entropy and gives rise to an organism to do that quickly, more quickly than slower moving nature. Once that is done so are we. Even if we leave the planet we will meet energy consumption limits somewhere as the sphere of entropy of our own making overtakes us, and very quickly on a cosmological timescale. Intelligent life lives fast and short.
We are here now but will soon be gone, determined by other physics realities, proud and hubristic but short lived. I think ETs do not normally contact each other because their time frames keep missing each other. This sort of thinking has 2 effects. Extreme existential angst and depression and, if one can ride that doomer bummer, arrive at making peace with that reality and becoming immune to depression in the face of anything life has to throw at us. To get to enlightenment one has to go through hell first.
@@coweatsman Intriguing both scientifically and philosophically. Single cell organisms took less than a half a billion years to appear on earth and it took 3 billion years for single cell organisms to create multi-cell organisms they can live and survive in at first, and another 600 million years forward to you and I. I suggest life is inhalant quality of the universe waiting its time that might never come or be short lived. Where I disagree without mentioning any intelligent design beside our own manipulation of the world that is manmade, is that there are at least 5 layers of being in philosophical makeup of human self, starting with only physical layer on the outside and the Ego layer as the innermost layer. If one befriends their ego’s ambition with plans of constructing a future filled with opportunities that feeds their ego while in harmony with inner conscientiousness and morality befitting their society, the hell you talk about of what they have to go through, will be a cake walk, because it’s not resisted as if it was imposed. It’s a path in a Journey of self arrival. Wisdoms is mastering patterns where enlightenment is a rare phenomena, few seconds a few times in an entire lifetime. A healthy mind will not go through hell for things beyond its control on the outside when all its important control surfaces can only be discovered inside and at its disposal.
@@coweatsman to your point, we are infinite possibility. It's possible there will be future life that will be able to meet but we may not be in that situation
Those aliens are tricky. Not announcing that they are coming for us.
Why would any space faring civilization or other civilization try to communicate vast distances with sub light transmissions? It's impractical.
They are all dead Dave, everyone is dead Dave, nobody else is alive Dave, everyone is dead Dave, your all alone Dave.
If a species of infinitely advanced beings need to communicate with eachother; what makes us so sure they would use em signals? What would stop them from encoding information onto a gravitational wave? Since distance is a limitation for em waves, perhaps they use other dimensions that we can't "see". I appreciate having the seti institute, those people do great work; especially Jodi foster! But I can't help but feel like we're barking up the wrong tree.
I strongly suspect non-Human life on Earth is far more intelligent than we're able to perceive. We constantly find out that our own ancestors were more intelligent than we thought. So, I think its completely irrelevant to search for 'intelligent life' elsewhere, when we don't even recognize it here.
Great job Anton - the search continues.
I don't think trying to find radio signals will be the way we discover something though. The vast distances are such a huge hurdle to overcome. Plus you have different types of intelligences. For example on Earth some civilizations discovered the wheel, some knew about it but never found it useful and some never discovered it. And as we know, natural selection vastly prefers instincts over intelligence - so there might be life someplace else - but its instinctual.
Plausible deniability is a powerful tool...
Just look up! They are everywhere!
Your awesome!! ❤❤❤
Anton with today's news: still no detection or aliens
You would need to expand physics to cover superluminal communication channels.
If extraterrestrial life forms are anywhere near as smart as us & have been around for longer, they're probably using Quantum encrypted Communications using quantum entanglement to communicate across long distances....
Thanks
There could have been a space fairing civilization in half the galexy and their final signals just hit us 40 years ago. How would we ever know? The odds of civilizations coenciding is astranomical.
hi Anton - 🛸✨
Why we don't detect already exists technology? We know how they worked, and what type of signature expect. Just looking at The Earth from far away (WEBB?), do some suggestions and using an existing telescope detect same signals.
I’d love to comment but typically I get bullied off the comments in about an hour if I even so much as say the word alie-actually I’ll just not say it. Thanks Anton for the vid as always
Seems to me that an advanced civilization might well have abandoned the use of electromagnetic waves ( laser, radio, etc ) long ago. Humans have used radio for a little over 120 years. I can't imagine that we won't find something better in the next 500 years... so, if we find radio or optical signals they would likely be from a civilization close to ours in terms of technical development. That really reduces the number of possible civilizations we can detect....other civilizations are not only distant in space but also in time. A 'radio civilization' would be one that is near to us in terms of time, no matter how distant. What might a civilization 10,000 years more advanced than we are use for communication? I don't know what it could be, but I bet you it WON'T be radio.
We have radio communication, the internet and even experiment with entangled quantum stuff. Still we have newspapers, books and write letters. Sure, we might invent a lot of crazy tech in the future, but that does not mean we will stop using the older stuff.
@@T.efpunkt So how many Quipu or cuneiform baked clay tablets are still in use, praytell? Not all methods are still in use.
@@billmilosz clay tablets? Idk. Stone tablets? Just take a walk at a cementry.
@@T.efpunkt Yeah I didn't ask about stone tablets. Your argument has fallen apart.
@@billmilosz nope, you didn't refute mine, which is that a new way to communicate doesn't erase all older ones. Learn about logical fallacies and how to think critically. Anecdotal evidence isn't evidence, it's just that, an anecdote.