I agree with your list, but I would also like to be able to switch detection modes (bird to animal to person to off) by just pressing a customizable button.
Instead of a new Z8II or Z9II I'd be more excited by a new crop camera with a higher pixel density (similar to Canon R7/OM-1 apsc 1.5x or apsh 1.3x) with a stacked sensor. I hope at least Nikon doesn't neglect the Pro level crop segment like Canon has. Also yes I agree about the pre-capture. Was best implemented on the OM-1. The Nikon Z8 is still an amazing camera just minor stuff needed. I think I prefer it to the R5 even the new one.
What do you need a crop camera for? the universe does not work around your navel. Nikon is a tinny company facing industry monsters with many subsidiaries in many areas. The Nikon Z9 already give you 20 megapixels in crop mode, use that. If they increase the number of focus points it will solve the issue instead of dropping resources in a camera very few need or want.
jaimeduncan6167 Nikon have already invested in a lot of superb nature/bird photog lenses currently the leaders in that department as far as I'm concerned. In Bird photography usually the most sought after is getting enough pixels on your bird. A higher density Camera such as any M4/3 or the Canon R7 will give you a lot more detail on the bird with the same lens than your full frame Z8 or R5. A lot of the time if you are cropping your full frame its waste of mem cards and quickly filling up buffers . More wasted frame space that a camera has to process. Nikon in the DSLR world had the best combo the D850 and a D500. Both professional cameras. I think instead of wasting resources making slight tweaks of the the Z8 or Z9 there are a waiting in line crowd out there for a mirrorless D500 and it would be nice if the 20MP was upped to equalled the R7. The lenses should be more than capable of dealing with the density resolution bump. So it's not a one or the other usually nature photogs have both types of cam and switch where necessary.
@@jaimeduncan6167 nikon are doing just fine and have been for ages (don't believe the Northrup's scare monger click baiting). Remember if Nikon fold, Sony lose a huge chunk of their income. So big even, that they bought out toshiba's sensor business after Nikon used them for a couple of successful cameras, that they were afraid that they could lose a huge client. If nikon want a crop milc camera, Sony will throw the a6x00 chip at them and scream 'please, tell us whatever changes you need - we will make them'. Nikon are not making a crop wildlife camera (yet), because the z8/9 sales are through the roof and exceeding expectations. There's no need to make a cheaper option (yet) as they are selling so well, and the d500 is also still selling well.
Highlight alerts would be great on the Z8 and Z9. They could implement this like Sony with zebras, or just add some kind of simpler alert that highlights or shadows are clipping (something that is a little bit easier to read than the histogram).
I love the request for more fps. Like, no criticism, but I did laugh. When these high fps, high mp cameras were first announced, fairly recently, we were all like 'wow! It's more than 10-12fps AND they habe high resolution!' and now there's an ask for more fps! As I say, not a criticism. We can't focus on the past so much, but I do find it funny. I recall the nikon f5 advert (a great short btw) with its incredible 8fps.
Considering the amazing images you get with version #1 of the cameras, I think we might be forgiven for thinking you're being just a little bit greedy wanting even better cameras :-) Terrific images gentlemen. Great suggestions, especially the double-click. One click for a focus preset and two clicks of the same button to engage the saved focus. Wish I'd have thought of it.
Coming from Canon R5 and owning Z8 and 9 you are spot on you are spot about the third dial as having to press that iso button is a real pain and also all Nikon Lenses from now on should have a clickable wheel with slight resistance so you can also use that for a usable wheel.
Very interesting discussion thanks. I'm currently considering a switch from Canon to Nikon (my first switch in 25 years!) because I think Nikon has a better range of lenses for wildlife. However, I'm still not convinced to make the move because of some of the issues you raised. AF capability, RAW Pre-capture and maximum FPS are the three big ones that are holding me back because I think the new Canon bodies are more capable with regard to these. However, I always believe in "dating the camera, but marry the lenses"! Nikon will surely address some of these areas where they're a bit behind - either through firmware or a new generation of bodies - and with their amazing lens line-up they'll be hard to resist for wildlife.
Nikon Z9 ii will come soon in 2025 in the Q4, that's my guess, because it'll be 4 years for Z9, and the flagship cameras refresh in every 4 years. Hope they'll do their best in the Z9 ii...
Super interesting and very well thought and explained Nicolas and Fabian 👏 Disclaimer : i'm quite less of a bird photographer than your are. The main thing i'd love for my Z9 in addition to your points : the same 3 front buttons for vertical shooting (just like onCanon right ?) The other top one you've talked about : Recall Function feature for Pre-Capture mode
Much of useful tips you got! I do BIF and I'm a beginner so nice to hear your thoughts. I'm also interested in macrophoto and would really like Nikon to upgrade firnware on present Z8 to handle burst with autofocus Nikon Z 105/2.8. If shooting with photo shift shooting you just get 1 s as the shortest interval, I would love to have as short as 5/100 s to match 20 frames/s. This means you get even more benefit of using the lens. Interval timer has 0.5 s as the lowest. Isn't it a quite easy problem to handle, just firmwarestuff? Perhaps someone out there has another solution to share?
@@FabianFoppNaturephotography Yes but I failed to mention I will do this with flashsync say 1/32 flashpower and maybe I can get 10 flashes/s so I want the interval be accordingly and as I understand this is not possible (referring to non static motives)
On my Z9, Bird subject/eye recognition more accurately and quickly recognizes birds, but Animal subject/eye-recognition doesn’t recognize mammals as quickly or accurately. For example, my Z9 in Animal Eye Recognition often focuses on the rump of an elk or deer instead of the head and eyes. Improving the AF speed, tracking, and initial subject recognition would be greatly appreciated.
I wonder if brands will run out of things to upgrade? Raw pre-capture will be great but everything else is pretty good as it is.. Will there be a ceiling?
Both cameras can be improved a lot still just with firmware upgrades for video in particular. Open gate recording, 14 bit raw, improved log curves, more raw compression modes (maybe R3D), improved auto focus and tracking. I don't think a Z9 or Z8 II are coming any time soon.
I guess resolution and noise floor can always be increased. Whether it is needed or not is a different question, but it can be. I also guess new features we haven't imagined yet may come. Go back 15 years and we would probably have laughed at the idea of getting rid of mirrors, subject detection AF and pre-capture on these cameras - let alone high mp and high fps in a one body solution. Heck, if you told me nikon would replace the f-mount, I would have wondered if you were being serious!
Ciao, about the sd card, while I was thinking the same when I bought my Z8, that maybe was better have 2 CF, I have to say that have an SD slot available give you the option, in critical situation, to go to the supermarket and buy one and use it. If you are travelling , or in remote areas, most likely you will be not able to get to a CF express, so this could make your life easier. The better solution in a wish list is to implement the same system that the sony A1 has, but of course with CF B
I think of buying Z8, as the ergonomy and the way the screen tilts is perfect for me. However I've researched a bit and it seems that the way you can program this camera is just ridiculous. How can there be no user modes like in lower range Nikons? Custom banks seem to be rather useless.
I think most Important is to improve its Bird eye autofocus, particularly for small birds and birds at a distance . Auto area autofocus should be improved. They are much behind Sony autofocus system. Sony a1,which is a 3yrs old flagship camera of Sony has more fast & accurate bird eye autofocus than Nikon Z8 ,what I am using. Precapture function is also more powerful and accurate in recent Sony 9 III . Precapture must be in Raw & 30 FPS is the preferred speed.
QUICK Autofocussing a bird in flight is very difficult with Nikon z8, where Canon & Sony autofocus system are much ahead. So Nikon should concentrate only on Quick and fast autofocus system to sustain in bird photography market who are the major buyer of this kind of cameras. Their dimand should not be ignored.
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
I agree with your list, but I would also like to be able to switch detection modes (bird to animal to person to off) by just pressing a customizable button.
Or implement an automatic mode like Canon 😊
It's possible on the sony a7iv
Instead of a new Z8II or Z9II I'd be more excited by a new crop camera with a higher pixel density (similar to Canon R7/OM-1 apsc 1.5x or apsh 1.3x) with a stacked sensor. I hope at least Nikon doesn't neglect the Pro level crop segment like Canon has. Also yes I agree about the pre-capture. Was best implemented on the OM-1. The Nikon Z8 is still an amazing camera just minor stuff needed. I think I prefer it to the R5 even the new one.
Yes, a cropped semi-pro body would be cool
What do you need a crop camera for? the universe does not work around your navel. Nikon is a tinny company facing industry monsters with many subsidiaries in many areas. The Nikon Z9 already give you 20 megapixels in crop mode, use that. If they increase the number of focus points it will solve the issue instead of dropping resources in a camera very few need or want.
jaimeduncan6167 Nikon have already invested in a lot of superb nature/bird photog lenses currently the leaders in that department as far as I'm concerned. In Bird photography usually the most sought after is getting enough pixels on your bird. A higher density Camera such as any M4/3 or the Canon R7 will give you a lot more detail on the bird with the same lens than your full frame Z8 or R5. A lot of the time if you are cropping your full frame its waste of mem cards and quickly filling up buffers . More wasted frame space that a camera has to process. Nikon in the DSLR world had the best combo the D850 and a D500. Both professional cameras. I think instead of wasting resources making slight tweaks of the the Z8 or Z9 there are a waiting in line crowd out there for a mirrorless D500 and it would be nice if the 20MP was upped to equalled the R7. The lenses should be more than capable of dealing with the density resolution bump. So it's not a one or the other usually nature photogs have both types of cam and switch where necessary.
@@jaimeduncan6167An aps-c is half the price of the Z-9
@@jaimeduncan6167 nikon are doing just fine and have been for ages (don't believe the Northrup's scare monger click baiting).
Remember if Nikon fold, Sony lose a huge chunk of their income. So big even, that they bought out toshiba's sensor business after Nikon used them for a couple of successful cameras, that they were afraid that they could lose a huge client.
If nikon want a crop milc camera, Sony will throw the a6x00 chip at them and scream 'please, tell us whatever changes you need - we will make them'.
Nikon are not making a crop wildlife camera (yet), because the z8/9 sales are through the roof and exceeding expectations. There's no need to make a cheaper option (yet) as they are selling so well, and the d500 is also still selling well.
Highlight alerts would be great on the Z8 and Z9. They could implement this like Sony with zebras, or just add some kind of simpler alert that highlights or shadows are clipping (something that is a little bit easier to read than the histogram).
True, I really liked that on Sony cameras
I love the request for more fps.
Like, no criticism, but I did laugh. When these high fps, high mp cameras were first announced, fairly recently, we were all like 'wow! It's more than 10-12fps AND they habe high resolution!' and now there's an ask for more fps!
As I say, not a criticism. We can't focus on the past so much, but I do find it funny. I recall the nikon f5 advert (a great short btw) with its incredible 8fps.
Yes, I sometimes think the same. But it’s really a game changer for songbirds in flight
Considering the amazing images you get with version #1 of the cameras, I think we might be forgiven for thinking you're being just a little bit greedy wanting even better cameras :-) Terrific images gentlemen. Great suggestions, especially the double-click. One click for a focus preset and two clicks of the same button to engage the saved focus. Wish I'd have thought of it.
Thanks!
Coming from Canon R5 and owning Z8 and 9 you are spot on you are spot about the third dial as having to press that iso button is a real pain and also all Nikon Lenses from now on should have a clickable wheel with slight resistance so you can also use that for a usable wheel.
I thought the same. But I think they wanted to give people the choice to use it as an MF wheel
16:27 stunning image!!!
Neat list too, thanks for putting it together
Thanks!
Very interesting discussion thanks. I'm currently considering a switch from Canon to Nikon (my first switch in 25 years!) because I think Nikon has a better range of lenses for wildlife. However, I'm still not convinced to make the move because of some of the issues you raised. AF capability, RAW Pre-capture and maximum FPS are the three big ones that are holding me back because I think the new Canon bodies are more capable with regard to these. However, I always believe in "dating the camera, but marry the lenses"! Nikon will surely address some of these areas where they're a bit behind - either through firmware or a new generation of bodies - and with their amazing lens line-up they'll be hard to resist for wildlife.
Nikon Z9 ii will come soon in 2025 in the Q4, that's my guess, because it'll be 4 years for Z9, and the flagship cameras refresh in every 4 years. Hope they'll do their best in the Z9 ii...
Always a tricky choice. But jumping ship is usually quite expensive as well
Super interesting and very well thought and explained Nicolas and Fabian 👏 Disclaimer : i'm quite less of a bird photographer than your are.
The main thing i'd love for my Z9 in addition to your points : the same 3 front buttons for vertical shooting (just like onCanon right ?)
The other top one you've talked about : Recall Function feature for Pre-Capture mode
Yes, good point about the buttons! This is much better done on the R3 and R1
I really hope we don't have to wait another 12-15 mths for a Z9II or Z8II to have Pre-capture and that it's available in a firmware update!
That would be great
Much of useful tips you got!
I do BIF and I'm a beginner so nice to hear your thoughts.
I'm also interested in macrophoto and would really like Nikon to upgrade firnware on present Z8 to handle burst with autofocus Nikon Z 105/2.8.
If shooting with photo shift shooting you just get 1 s as the shortest interval, I would love to have as short as 5/100 s to match 20 frames/s.
This means you get even more benefit of using the lens.
Interval timer has 0.5 s as the lowest.
Isn't it a quite easy problem to handle, just firmwarestuff?
Perhaps someone out there has another solution to share?
Do you mean the focus bracketing?
@@FabianFoppNaturephotography Yes but I failed to mention I will do this with flashsync say 1/32 flashpower and maybe I can get 10
flashes/s so I want the interval be accordingly and as I understand this is not possible (referring to non static motives)
On my Z9, Bird subject/eye recognition more accurately and quickly recognizes birds, but Animal subject/eye-recognition doesn’t recognize mammals as quickly or accurately. For example, my Z9 in Animal Eye Recognition often focuses on the rump of an elk or deer instead of the head and eyes. Improving the AF speed, tracking, and initial subject recognition would be greatly appreciated.
Unfortunately, all cameras seem to do better with birds than with mammals
I wonder if brands will run out of things to upgrade? Raw pre-capture will be great but everything else is pretty good as it is.. Will there be a ceiling?
I‘ve been wondering this for years 😅 but I do think that the innovation curve flattens
Both cameras can be improved a lot still just with firmware upgrades for video in particular. Open gate recording, 14 bit raw, improved log curves, more raw compression modes (maybe R3D), improved auto focus and tracking. I don't think a Z9 or Z8 II are coming any time soon.
I guess resolution and noise floor can always be increased. Whether it is needed or not is a different question, but it can be.
I also guess new features we haven't imagined yet may come. Go back 15 years and we would probably have laughed at the idea of getting rid of mirrors, subject detection AF and pre-capture on these cameras - let alone high mp and high fps in a one body solution.
Heck, if you told me nikon would replace the f-mount, I would have wondered if you were being serious!
Ciao, about the sd card, while I was thinking the same when I bought my Z8, that maybe was better have 2 CF, I have to say that have an SD slot available give you the option, in critical situation, to go to the supermarket and buy one and use it. If you are travelling , or in remote areas, most likely you will be not able to get to a CF express, so this could make your life easier.
The better solution in a wish list is to implement the same system that the sony A1 has, but of course with CF B
Sure, but I just buy 2-3 CFexpress cards. Even if one dies, I have more. The supermarket SD cards are usually also very slow
I think of buying Z8, as the ergonomy and the way the screen tilts is perfect for me. However I've researched a bit and it seems that the way you can program this camera is just ridiculous. How can there be no user modes like in lower range Nikons? Custom banks seem to be rather useless.
Yes, that’s something that I also hope to see implemented differently
I just bought a z8 don't scare me with these titles :)
😅
I think most Important is to improve its Bird eye autofocus, particularly for small birds and birds at a distance . Auto area autofocus should be improved. They are much behind Sony autofocus system. Sony a1,which is a 3yrs old flagship camera of Sony has more fast & accurate bird eye autofocus than Nikon Z8 ,what I am using. Precapture function is also more powerful and accurate in recent Sony 9 III . Precapture must be in Raw & 30 FPS is the preferred speed.
Yes, the A1 is still a very impressive camera (for photography)
QUICK Autofocussing a bird in flight is very difficult with Nikon z8, where Canon & Sony autofocus system are much ahead. So Nikon should concentrate only on Quick and fast autofocus system to sustain in bird photography market who are the major buyer of this kind of cameras. Their dimand should not be ignored.
Yes, I feel the same way