Defeat Tracking Dog Teams
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ส.ค. 2024
- Tracking dog teams seem to cause many to question their abilities to avoid detection.
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I would really enjoy doing a live with you.
Another thing is to know how scent travels. Scent settles in low places at night or cooler weather, rises at mid day and in hot weather (worst time of day for dog to get a scent). Scent will follow water down stream, so it is better to go downstream if you are trying to avoid them by using waterways. The longer you are in one location, the more scent you leave on the ground.
good point man also the wind is a big factor
Our production manager at work has hunting dogs. You can hear the excitement when he talks about letting his dogs work and that connection they have. Hats off to our search and rescue teams. Thankful for the good people we have on our side.
Deet impairs tracking dogs sense of smell for at least 12 hours. It attaches to the scent receptors much like carbon monoxide does to the hemoglobin molecule. I usually have 100% Deet in my kit.
When I was the commander of a platoon at the border, I tested dog handlers every week. I crossed the iron curtain and ran to the border. They caught me 90% of the time, and I know the forest good video man
How to defeat tracking dog teams: move faster and farther than the guys holding the leashes are willing to.
th-cam.com/video/Muj1YOrgNQw/w-d-xo.htmlsi=yHYmSYGAoxQgJavP
This guy went full commando and kept creating distance non stop. Even went down a large hill that was too difficult for the dog and handler.
I have a friend, Doug, and past coworker-he is now deceased-who was in the US Army Special Forces. He was one of the prairie dog protesters here in Colorado. His complaint was not that prairie dogs were killed but the bounty on coyotes that once existed here in Colorado. Take away the predator, increased the prey population. Anyway, my friend disrupted a prairie dog hunting competition in Nucla CO by running out from a stand of trees to drive the prairie dogs back into their holes. Authorities sent in dog teams to locate him, but they all failed. When the hunt resumed, Doug would pop out of the woods again, driving the prairie dogs underground. The dogs searched again to no avail. This happened repeatedly until the authorities bargained with Doug, giving him assurances if he would come out. Doug finally came out and was arrested. Later, I asked him more than once how he evaded the dogs. He never would tell me. Doug once went into the jungles in Belize and lived for two months alone. Doug had some mad skills! I miss him.
Doug sounds like a man who's skills were only eclipsed by his will. I can only speculate based on his sentiments to the natural order of things that he also had contempt for "prairie dog hunters" as there is no real skill in the practice. It's actually easier than shooting the proverbial fish in a barrel.
There are many ways to distract a dog and a tracker even for a significant period. However, a good tracker\handler will in due course pick up a trail. Growing up a farm kid with a grandfather who served in WW2 and Korea I have learned a few tricks in evasion but only good for a lone wolf not a squad.
Lol...there's plenty of coyotes in Colorado matter of fact there's enough in all the states, so many in fact that it's sickening. He should been pushing n moaning about the wolves not the prairie dogs n coyotes
@@matthewmaxcy1574 The event in Nucla CO with my friend Doug was over 30 years ago. In the 80s, there was a bounty on coyotes. I used to see stacks and stacks of hides at sales in the NG armory near here.
Sounds like a different type dude.
When I worked for The Texas Dog Academy, we trained tracking dogs.
The membranes in a dogs nose that enable it to pick up smells is about equal to the amount of skin on the dog. The same membranes in a human nose is roughly the size of a postage stamp.
The dog will know which track is the most recent.
You can use bear spray the same way you would use black pepper. And you are more likely to have that on you.
Yes Sir, I believe bear spray is basically pepper spray.
Good information Bill as usual!
It is ALWAYS fun to watch well trained search dogs work with their handlers!
I was a K9 handler back in the 1980s but my Malinois "Pinto" was patrol and apprehension.
1. Put ground in between you and the dog.
2. Find a hide/defendable position.
3. Draw the dog in.
4. Shoot the dog.
5. Rinse.
6. Repeat.
If you have a blade and are willing to sacrifice a protected limb you can replace 4. with a much quieter plunge into the neck of the dog.
If the handler doesn't release the dog. Putting a round into an officer from a concealed position will almost always force a release of the dog and a hasty retreat of the human team. Know your enemies tactics and use them to your advantage. Don't let fear dictate your actions.
Seems like most of the old advice couldn’t apply. When you find the dogs are coming for you where the heck are you going to stock up on all the booby traps and distraction measures? Plus, spending time to deploy said tactics is lost time you could be making distance. And also seems like the more evidence you leave behind of your track, the easier it is for them to deploy teams to cut you off or to jump ahead.
Coming from someone who’s trained numerous tracking and detection dogs, I think your advice is sound. Get ahead of them and stay ahead of them!
Paul Newman used Cayenne pepper in Cool Hand Luke. In my opinion different dogs have better senses than others. The more distance you can put between you and your pursuer, the better your chances of escape. Men notice spoor , Blood Hounds work mostly off scent. Their noses never get tired. No man can outlast a dog endurance wise. Pray for rain, snow, and a fast flowing river to jump in and cruise. Like I stated on your stealth camping video, In a SHTF situation, I wouldn't take a dog with me. You will be found easier. That's looking at it from more of an E and E situation, but it's best to look at both ends of the spectrum. Enjoy your videos, keep it up ! Using something frequently used by a missing person for the search dogs to sniff everyone has heard of. But If that missing person has a family Dog at home? Try and include that pet in the search ASAP ! That family pet knows the missing persons scent better than any other search dog involved. In a serious evasion situation, If the dogs get out in front of the handlers. If possible, it's best to take the dogs out of the equation yourself.
I have to disagree. I have seen dog handlers bring a dog in their arms after a recon in winter and that was a Czechoslovakian wolfdog
@@jerryj3047 what particularly are you disagreeing on ?
@@robertdodd9623 No man can outlast a dog endurance ... you are correct with other stuff
@@jerryj3047 Your saying a man in Winter , after recon, has enough strength to carry a 50 lb dog out of the wilderness . Because the dog is too weak? The dog may have been old, injured, or had health problems. Maybe the dog had been working with a previous recon ? Dogs have been used to pull sleds in terrible conditions to save lives with needed medications. The dogs generally do all the work, the man rides and steers. No Earthly man alive can out endure a well conditioned animal when it comes to endurance.
@@robertdodd9623 that dog was fine and these dogs last a long time, but in the deep snow after 25 km he had enough, not always, but I've seen it a few times, those dogs were used heavily every day, and yes he carries that dog to base
Oh man, you had me laughing at the start! In the 80's, back when I was doing dumb shit, I actually DID carry cayenne pepper on me specifically for that very reason🤣. I don't know if it ever had effect on the dogs, but boy I tell you, don't wipe the sweat from your eyes after spreading that shit on the trail !!! Great video, Stoker. Thank you.
😂🤣
Well thought out info! I can think of no reason LE would be using dogs on me. Rudy Giuliani probably didn't expect a 2 am search warrant either. That said - now I know how to pack my gear and where to go. I understand vegetation and moisture will hold scent much better than a hot, dry and rocky environment. Hope I never find out.
Glad you came back to this subject again.
You touched on using watercourses, streams/brooks/creeks etc. Was taught to use them when being followed by dogs and to make obvious "herringbone exits" on the side of the watercourse, just to slow down the dog by confusing it by giving it a lot of work to do.
Secondly, one of my gypsy friends always carried a extra handkerchief which had a pile of chilli powder/flakes in it to make a "scent mine" that would seriously pi$$ off the dog tracking you.
The man said to be the best tracker the British Army ever had , Eddie McGee, always said . . . " you have to get inside the head of the man you are tracking" . . .
This is a wee gem of a video, like the way you discuss subjects others just don't cover or only mention in passing. Keep up the good work.
Top is correct time and distance as well as movement is key to losing a tracking team, there have been many rumors of using scents ie, cayenne, cow dung, stanky mud, all the dog will smell is a stinky peppery human. As he said not traveling in a straight line can gain you time as well as cause a tracking team to lose confidence in them selves as well as others not trusting them. Also note if you want you and yours to be found have each member of your party step on a piece of aluminum foil. Keep that in the vehicle at the trail head so search and rescue have something to go on.
Talk about tracking, or detection dogs….
In the 1960’s, drug dogs were introduced to the Los Angeles Police Department. There was a lot of resistance to this at first, but the dog handlers changed a lot of minds, with a little trick.
They were able to detect and alert on stashes of narcotics in general, but one thing they did that put them over the top.
A dog alerted on three marijuana seeds that were inside a tube of toothpaste that was hidden in a light fixture on the ceiling!
It convinced even the hardest critics… but it was really a trick.
The dog wasn’t alerting to the pot seeds, it was alerting to the toothpaste in the fixture. It was too far out of place and the dog noticed it.
The drug dogs on the border, and airports, etc. are trained to detect amounts of coffee, which is used to disguise drug smells.
The dogs are amazingly smart, but it’s only effective if the handler can read the dog well.
It's also good to remember that you're NEVER going to fool the dog. The best you can hope for is to fool the handler, by making him not know what to make of his dogs behavior. Which (of course) is easier said than done.
As a former K-9 handler for a mid size city PD, most tracking failures are because of the handler mistakes, not the K-9 abilities.
Appreciate you sharing that.
yup👍👍
I knew an Austin TX Police K9 named Bear. He was a Bouvier with two stainless steel canines. The officer said he lost a tooth making an arrest, and he looked silly with just one silver tooth replacement.
He said when he was on foot patrol, Bear would tell him if someone had a gun on them.
The dog had just been promoted to sergeant, and I asked the handler if he was afraid the dog would outrank him some day. lol
Thank you for your service. I’ve known a lot of LEO’s, and have never met a police K-9 unit that I didn’t trust.
Also you can pee and sweat on sticks and then throw them random directions and up in trees. Also you can leave little bit of clothing up a tree where Dog cannot get to and that could buy you hours of distraction. You could also put scent or your fabric on a stick and float it downstream. Also simple Hog hunting spring snare traps are a bonus.
I'm not gonna lie this really makes me think outside of the box And try different ways to implement if I was needing to avoid something like this.
Another great method to buy yourself some time and may even stop someone from pursuing you any further is to just make it very difficult to follow you. If possible lead them through places that they are not going to want to follow you through like swampy areas or large Rocky terrain makes it a challenge for any dog team and in most cases will have to spend time going around.
Another is to give false lead's. Leave some scat going in one direction to say for instance a creek bed get in the water and walk in the water for a hundred feet or so and come back out and start moving again. They will have to spend time figuring out if you crossed or not and pick up your scent again. Traveling in the rain is a very good idea as well as it will somewhat mask noise and could make your scent weaker
Best way to defeat a tracking dog, is to "stop" the handler if you know what i mean. At least make them not want to continue to follow you...
The story of WWII evasion captured my imagination 35 yrs ago. Read just about all E&E files & Brit SPGs and well as agents on all sides.
One SOE agent (a remarkable story) managed to break out of his confinement after arrest and went on the run. Seems he knew a couple of tricks the SOE had taught him. Soon pursued by trained SD police dogs, who had his scent from his cell effects, he none-the-less stopped deliberately, had a good pee low on a tree, and then took off again, eventually escaping back to England.
Seems a good pee spot confuses dogs in the chase and delays them.
As a dog trainer/owner , I know most of this knowledge as well, but it's nice to hear someone else say it. Also, I'm a Minuteman. One of the first things I was trained to do, is mantracking and ESAER.
A good trainer is going to have mental fatigue as a constant issue due to having to keep the dogs on task, and adding mantracking to that equasion inevitably creates more mental fatigue. Add in the fact that a good ESAER is going to carry CAYENNE, not BLACK pepper, and the situation spirals out of control for the trainer. I actually DO put spices in my bugout equipment.
Great material, earned my sub!
Sound as if you better be in pretty good shape to add said distance in order to get away. But with a lead time of 1-2 hours, at some point, acquiring a means of mobility would be smart.
1 hour of lead time is at a minimum 4 miles on a road - 1-2 miles bushwhacking.
I used to work with german shepards in the security industry as a dog handler. Some of the things I learned about a dogs ability to follow a scent, firstly a dog can distinguish different scents the way a human can distinguish colour so I can see why pepper would be ineffective, secondly everything and I mean everything gives off or has a scent a dog can find and lastly when a dog follows a scent wind direction can greatly enhance or deter the dogs powers of detection. Iam quite sure if the dog is downwind of the source of the scent it enhances it for the dog or if the dog is upwind the scent becomes alot more difficult for the dog to follow. If it is windy it makes it ten times harder for the dog in this case. Working with these animals I have seen them nose to ground then stop and sniff the air then nose back to the ground, it would seem the scent also travels in the air currents and the dog knows this. So if your smelly and wash once a month fido will find you in no time.
GOOD stuff. I enjoy this type of topic/conversation. That show “Man Tracker”..with the dude on horseback in Canada, was always one of my Favs..ALTHOUGH I wasn’t naive “enough” to believe everything I saw either. I’d love to put it to ‘The Test’.
Just got back from vacation so I have to catch up. This is great information Top! I got some good ideas for tracker avoidance now. Cheers Bill! 🥃
Introducing my best Bruce Willis impression
Piss on one side of a track, throw your skivs on the other and bisect the two to proceed.
Pupper won't stand a chance lol.
Good Information Sir
Maybe we should take tracking by sent counter measures training from those that are tracking us.
By taking a good roll in the stinkiest dead thing you can find.
Thank you
The dogs olfactory system can break apart the odors at the molecular level. They track a person using eyes ears and nose. The nose is the most powerful. There are three separate odors a person gives off under stress. 👍
This is so inspiring, Thank you for sharing this with us! 😍
Rather interesting and informative. Looking for a lost child is probably much different than looking for an adult on the run.
An adult who is on the run and with a plan, an immediate search may be delayed to prevent contamination of the immediate site. However, a missing child should require an immediate search.
Just my thoughts.
What were the MACV SOG guys using,,, they mentioned pepper and mace powder that they would put on the ground ????
Good video , thanks for sharing , God bless !
One more point. the iron curtain left behind many victims the years 1948-1989. There were 450 civilians, not always intruders (e.g. Johann Dick was a tourist) or accidental. 654 border guards died. after the signal the rapid response team to the signal must be ready in less than 5 minutes, the driver, commander, handler, and gunner, and the driving time was around 15/30 minutes to the location of the signal. In the woods you have a 30-minute head start it's about 1 click if you're lucky and cut 30 minutes for every 1000 feet (304.8 meters) of elevation gain. the handler runs much faster than you thanks to the dog. I tried my best to fool dog Hendler but it was very difficult and yes it really hurt when the dog bites you🤣🤣
BOOBIE TRAPS
Same way COOL HAND LUKE DID!!!!
Good points
If they are close, would ammonia work? It would really burn their noses.
Usmc sniper here, get picked up by a vehicle,,,,also, fox in heat urine. Artillary or air strike
I've seen Skunk Musk for sale in Bowhunters' shops--also trapper lures. Would the application of either of these to one's shoes assist in throwing off the dogs?
Let’s test it for the channel. I’ll bring my mal, you bring your gear.
I’m game.
Would love that
I’ve always wanted to try out doing a tracking dog …. It would be an awesome challenge
AI, robotic dogs being developed, and drones are a disadvantage if you are being pressed and presuded
If you are hunting or being hunted I would ditch those neon blue jeans when in the woods. A friend of mine was elk hunting in blue jeans and I could pick him out a ridge line away, so could the elk.
I worked in an emergency room in a big city for some years and would see the folks who thought they could outsmart the police dogs when they were brought in to have their consequential injuries managed. The dogs were known by name in the ER. They were so incredibly powerful and I respected them so much. I know this community is different, but for the uninformed person who thinks they could outmaneuver a real K9, they just have no idea what these dogs are all about.
Exfiltration exersizes in the military where dog teams where send on our trail where frightning. The sound of the dogs in the distance can easily make you make bad decisions. I was told by one of them that you can make the dog stop tracking. But if you do and the dog is neutralized they will come in for the kill...
Any time you spend setting traps is a loss of traveling time. Obstacles that might slow you down seldom slow a dog. If you must set a trap, do so to harm the handler. A six-foot length of staff is a very effective tool to stop a dog if he closes on you. Always remember the best way to avoid a dog chase is heads up, strong heart, avoid the situation.
air scent....ground scent... surfaces that will and wont hold scent. scent degrades and faster in hotter dry weather. funny about the peeper why dont you put down a little beacon that says hey i was there...hahaha
One option you didn't mention take out the tracking team
it's not fun doing escape and evasion course in Panama, while raining all week long😅
Would thinks like bear traps or fire be effective?
My partner and I tracked for 11 kilometres with a capture at the end. We both needed a nap when we were done
I bet! Thanks for sharing!
A droan with imfered and heat signature is the best way to find you
To be clear. I am 100% against the use of dogs against humans who in the United States are presumed "innocent until PROVEN guilty". The use of a k9 always results in assault on the suspect. Even if it's a petty crime where the suspect flees on foot with no real risk to the public or officers in pursuit. The use of a k9 is unconditional at best and excessive force at worst.
HEY ! Where is Riggs ?? Are you evading him 😁
Well I'll never get that 10 min back
Time is about the only thing in your favor with my dogs. The Dog will start criss crossing to pick you up again. If you are under 15 minutes from the dog, you need to just surrender.
How bout the old Red Haring trick? It worked on fox hunting hounds! 🤣😂🤣
Remember hard ground like concrete dissipates scent quickly...
Spray bear spray or pepper spray behind yourself as you run
You cant stop the dog persay but you can do things to slow them down. We found that pure ammonia will blow out a dogs nose for a few hours.
How about Catalina reaper powder
Carolina reaper
Track-Rescue dogs can smell your scent even after months. In the EU they work in teams with 4 dogs.
I’d like to see that.
@@STOKERMATIC They smell skin particles, even over longer time, wind and rain/snow will spread the particles. Some dogs (selected) can still smell these. After a month of 3. I took party in a search for missing person in a large area. We were not allowed to make contact with the dogs. But I was truly impressed with the results.
The best way to avoid a dog tracking team is to remove the dog part of team with high speed lead poisoning from range.
Take the time to learn ways to distract or harrass said dogs and handlers.
Treble hooks fishing line placed in right spot can be a pain. Not advocate doing it.
Circling back on your own trail and going opposite way.
Weather can effect your scent.
Rocky terrian.
As mentioned avoid the reason to have dogs on your but.
Would climbing terrain that a dog couldn’t be viable? The tracking team would have to find a way around or lift the dog in some way.
Climbing terrain like that may leave more sign for the tracker - and if they have another way up, they’d cut you off.
But, situation dependent - do what you must.
MAC V SOG guys will let you know that you do not and will not evade the dogs. Your only hope is extraction! Or dispose of the tracking element.
Drones, thermals, dogs, all things people claim are impossible to defeat. Yet some backpacker offs his gf and they can't find him until his parents lead them to the body. I read again and again you can't defeat a tracker. Then where are they? Like saying watch out or they might send a ninja after ya. Yeah one of those.
Being i am a good tracker. I no i can be tracked. I just wonder some times if deer piss would work.
Ammonia
So when they bring the dogs out your basically fuc*ed lol
Certified? What organization certifies trackers?
nasar.org/education/courses-certifications/sartech-tracker/
I just take a big dump and spray piss then move in the other direction. It makes you faster too.
The only real way to defeat tracking dogs, is to not be in the search area.
Have worked with search dogs in Search and Rescue. There are Tracking, Trailing, Air Scent and Water and Snow Cadaver Search Dogs, they are all amazing at what they do. In most cases an Air Scent Dog is going to be used, unless you have a definite trail to follow, they do not normally follow a trail until they pick up a scent that matches the scent they are looking for. They also need to have a scent article from the person they are looking for. Some military and law enforcement dogs, as well as Cadaver dogs, are trained to react to any human scent.
While I agree, there are so many instances of dog teams being ineffective during SAR missions (for a variety of reasons).
@@STOKERMATIC If it is a good dog, with a good handler, and a good scent article. The main reason they might fail, is because the person is not in the area they were given to search. Have been on searches, where the dog teams could not find the subject, once was what turned into the first recovery mission I was on. All the teams, including one of the dog teams, walked right past this person because at first we were looking for a live person. The persons body was found close by the last known point, hidden in a creek and covered by brush, they were found because of reflective tabs on the shoes that was seen by one of the teams heading out after dark with headlamps.
Another one that turned into a body recovery, was a guy who was missing for a couple weeks, we covered the search area thoroughly. I had the feeling that the person had taken a different drainage that led deeper into the wilderness, outside of the search area that the supervisors thought he must be in. We also had one of the dog teams indicate in that direction, but the dog handler was also ignored. I ended up going out on my own, two days hike into the wilderness as that dog handler decided to "train her dog" and tried to approach the area from the place her dog had indicated. I was the one who found the body. I got chewed out for going off on my own. I just said I was out for a hike. Team politics can sometimes be a reason people do not get found.
@@STOKERMATIC another time during training, I was navigating for the same dog team mentioned above. I was mostly using my compass, but had a GPS that I would Mark any indications from the dog, as well as keep a record of the route traveled. When we got back to the start point after the training mission, I realized that I had dropped my GPS, I started backtracking, following my own tracks while the dog handler just walked past me and gave the dog some signal to get my scent, then the handler told the dog to "Find the object". I only made it about a hundred yards or more trying to track myself. And the dog found my GPS over a quarter mile away within ten minutes.
Thanks Top! Supper is on me!
🙏🇺🇸🥃
If you would like some real understanding of how to fool dogs and slow down trackers contact me. With perimeter containment and a legit tracker a dog is not needed. You are caught. Period. That being said, there are methods that can disrupt a dog using scent theory and deliberate tactics. All the tactics discussed a tracker already knows and know how to defeat it on the fly. Dogs stay in the rear of a real tracking team muzzled and used for apprehension only.
What kind of recon you are?! Cant even throw of puppies from you trail?
Best way is to leave traps along your trail to kill the dogs and injure the trackers.
Takes a lot of time to set up traps. Time you don’t have.
From what Im reading, you are not going to like it but dang. You are just going to have to kill them And keep killing them until there isnt any more. This is how we rose up the food chain and got were we are. Me I want to stay here, I like it. Please for my sake and the sake of your dogs, please leave them at home.
click bait…
What no tears of a commie?
🇺🇸🥃🇺🇸
I really appreciate what you do
Lmao your common sense approach is hilarious 😂😂😂😂
WTF !
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you. For I am the Lord your God, The Holy One of Israel, your Savior; I gave Egypt for your ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in your place. Since you were precious in My sight, You have been honored, And I have loved you; Therefore I will give men for you, And people for your life.
Isaiah 43:2-4
THE CREATOR WILL DESTROY YOU AND YOUR DOGS