@@InspiringPhilosophy And they're now trying to frame YOU as the one who was chest thumping and being rude in their new response they made RIGHT after you made yours. The gaslighting is just crazy with these guys.
I knew Mythvision was garbage ever since his video on David wood. What his channel really is just a way for his fans to have their hatred of Christianity and apologists affirmed.
People forget the original draw to Mythvision was Robert Price who got non-personed when he casually mentioned he was voting for the "wrong person." Mythvision is spite and casual hatred all the way down
@ yeah Derek would have gotten cooked if David responded. Video was so terrible. The guy Derek brought on had no idea who he was talking to, he unironically told them Jesus was Jewish, like duh.
I hate being "that guy", but I've said it multiple times now: Derek is not a good-faith actor, even if he's convinced himself that he is. I saw it nearly a year ago give or take. I've been trying to warn people that he pretends to be nice and objective and approachable so that he can get close enough to stab you in the back. I've always had a generally good sense for when someone is like that, but ...well, without going into details, though if Mike remembers an email I sent him some time ago about a personal issue he'll know why, after the last couple of years I've been WAY tuned up to see people's behavior without rose-tinted glasses. And Derek absolutely lights that sense up like the 4th of July. I sincerely wish he didn't. If I had any advice for Christian apologists going forward it would be to stay away from the guy. He's like a bad ex that desperately wants to still be liked while he burns all the bridges he comes across.
EXACTLY. i’ve been confused about this for the longest time. why do people like mike and david wood think he’s a good dude or ”one of the good ones”? it seems so abundantly clear to me that he’s a snake just by looking at how he acts in people’s chats in contrast to how he acts in his videos, completely different
@@vedinthorn No, Derek will play off the situation for views, as does everyone else (IP has done this many times). As soon as Derek starts to come out on top people like you accuse him of stabbing people in the back to draw attention away from the fact that he was right. They both knew what they were doing from the beginning and IP is crying now because he's been exposed as a liar. This was a back and forth TH-cam debate, what has Derek done or said that warrants this level of offense being taken? What "backstabbing" has taken place?
1:03:48 I don’t understand why this guy thinks the 3 day motif is such a big deal. Josh literally included the thing about Jonah in his correspondence, it’s obvious that it’s a common near eastern motif and not pagan borrowing.
@ No, it’s not borrowing if it’s apart of everyday speech and writing. Someone can use the phrase “I’ll be back” and have never watched let along be copying the movie Terminator because it’s apart of everyday speech even though it was famously used there. In this case it’s quite obvious that it’s just being used to borrow a phrase from Jonah (Matthew 12:40) and in neither case must it be taken as a literal time indicator.
@davethebrahman9870 and what would be considered ridiculous belifs? a belif that you don't agree? can I go to an atheist and make fun of them for being an atheist or what about a debate or discussion?
@@IliyaKardgar Supernatural beliefs are ridiculous because in order to hold them one must ignore everything we have learnt about the world since the Scientific Revolution of the 17th century. Hume gave the decisive argument against accepting miracle stories based on testimony in 1748. Every new discovery has only confirmed that supernatural events don’t happen. Theists prefer to live in a world of goblins and fairies, like our pre-scientific ancestors. Ridicule is a valid response to adults who do this, just as it is to Flat Earthers and Homeopaths. The experience of being ridiculed can lead people to understand what they are incapable of seeing through logic.
The fervent....glee? and energy they're expressing going through this....like an addict finally getting their fix.... it's a bit concerning, really. Like they cannot even wait a millisecond to rip into their arguments, not even to listen to what was said...
This is honestly really sad. I really enjoyed Derek’s dialogues with Christians over the last couple years. Let’s pray he seeks to make amends privately so those sorts of dialogues can come back. :)
Orthodox Christians do not celebrate Christmas on January 6, we celebrate it on December 25th. However, those Orthodox who use the Old Calendar celebrate it on the Julian 25th of December, which is January 7 on the Gregorian Calendar. A lot of people get mixed up about this.
For those who still don't understand, Derek who is supposedly friends with IP went to "expose" him without even asking his side and where they disagree. This isn't an honest mistake as Derek claims, its public slander
If you watched Mythvision's 3 hr video he tells you he don't really know them personally but believes they're probably good people. The thing IP hates being corrected especially when he's wrong. He's like the Richard Carrier of Christian Apologetics. What do I mean by that? I mean he comes off as arrogant and not humble
@@mickeylax9975 Yes he does about 2 hours into their 3 hr video. Also IP doesn't thoroughly research. When he does he only utilizes sources that fit his narrative instead of what the data and evidence presents. I say IP really needs to work on being more humble and less arrogant. As well as be more honest in research
I'm so sorry your friend betrayed you like this IP. The joy and eagerness throughout this attempt at an exposed video is pathetic and disturbing. It hurts me to see you hurt as well. You mean a whole lot to me man - as you have helped strengthen my faith when I was very new to Christianity. I love you brother
I’ve never understood the argument that some Jews made up a Messiah that they and their converts would have to die for and be rejected from both Jewish society and pagan as well. Jews had many candidates for a messiah and abandoned them when they died. Why was Jesus different? They didn’t “make up stories” about the others.
It is because Jesus is the real deal, unlike their 1666 messiah or the Menachem Mendel Schneerson fellow. Fun Fact: The founder of *sr#el converted to Orthodox Christianity because even he saw the truth and writing on the wall.
@mdm123196 This isn't even the same contextual conparison. Without trying to make this political, Regarding 9/11, it was claimed to be done because of the U.S. involvement in the support of Israel replacing the Palestinians. In the view of the Muslims, they're fighting for the justice of their brethren. The 9/11 hijackers were like kamikaze. Where as the early witnesses of Jesus were dying trying to proclaim witness of him. It would be akin to dying over a story they firsthand made up. It would make no sense to do that. Would you be willing to die over a fantasy you made up?
@Dnpnts like i said people were killing themselves for made-up beliefs way before Jesus.. and the truth is that there is very little actual historical evidence to confirm or deny that the twelve were actually martyred for believing in the resurrection. According to the Acts of Peter, Peter was crucified not because of his faith, but because Agrippa and Albinus were angry at Peter for causing their wives/concubines to become chaste. What actual historical evidence can you provide that the 12 were martyred for their faith? Most critical scholars think the accounts were legendary.
@mdm123196 first off, I was showing the difference between your comparisons and how they were flawed. I was showing you where the argument was coming from. Yes, there were martyrs for all kinds of reasons, not only for religious causes. But like I said, early witnesses were said to be martyred over a supposed lie. Off the top of my head, James, the brother of Jesus was said to have been martyred, Josephus writes of it. Paul writes of his impending death. Yes, we can use Paul as a witness, even Bart Erman agrees with this fact. If we can use Paul, then add Stephen to the list as well. Then we have the apostolic fathers who died having claimed to be disciples of some of the original 12. It's well documented. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can find more documentation if I look.
@Dnpnts Josephus wrote that James was stoned to death by the high preist Ananus because James broke the law of Moses. Not for believing in the resurrection. Bart Ehrman says in a few different blog posts that we can not know how they died because WE LACK HISTORICAL EVIDENCE. Google it. None of what you posted is historical evidence. We just don't know. What we have is church tradition, and that's it. It is not well documented. This is consesus critical scholarship.
@blamtasticful What part of "these two" did you think was referring to the singular individual who filmed his own response to slanderous accusations by two soytards
Mythvision is just a big grift. You can tell by his subscribers. He has been flatline for a while. Michael he is not an honest broker, break ties with this dude.
All mythvision does is cope. He coped with jay dyer and he coped with you. These atheist apologist are beyond soft. They can't handle any kind of push back.
@@Taydutt13 I would say the opposite. Christian apologists only using church sources and scholars forced to sign faith statements is not thorough research. When top notch scholars show that certain church dogmas are incorrect it's the Christian Apologist that can't handle the evidence
Don't Gnostic Informant and Derrick reject a lot of what Dan McClellan and Bart Ehrman have to say for a lot of the stuff discussed in these videos? They also accept a lot of their arguments as well. its just picking and choosing certain arguments so their worldviews are always correct, and funnily enough, the have the nerve to accuse you of doing it. In an interview with Derrick, you can see that Dr. Tabor gets pretty annoyed on how childishly Derrick handles New testament scholarship, essentially molding it to fit HIS POINT OF VIEW.
I wanted to like Derek, and l wanted to like Bowen. But they're just so bad faith, it's ridiculous. And associating with some of the worst Anti-theist apologists certainly doesn't help their approach
I just watched like 10 minutes of their livestream responding to this video. These guys are clearly toxic and STILL don’t understand the points you were making in this livestream. It’s actually really sad. Sorry you had to go through this IP.
Mythvision knows he is giving false information. There is no way he is that stupid. Its more likely that he thinks YOUR that stupid that you dont and wont research things for yourself. In alot of his videos, he will claim something, give the texts and put it on screen.....if you read it, it actually doesnt say what he is claiming. Ive made several comments calling it out. And of course, i never get a response. He is ridiculous.
@stevie6621 his followers, folks who watch his stuff........believe what he is saying. It seems legit cause he shows he does the research and he will bring in guests and folks that study historical things. So it has to be legit.....right. Thats why i watch his videos. Maybe i missed something. But its pretty much all the same crap..........they all leave stuff out. Why? I dont know. To suit their view? They are in denial? Because they are catering to their fan base? Because they get paid to? I think its the money. They see that they can get paid for this narrative so.....why not. Let me do some half fast research, just enough to convince folks and let me get some guests who share my narrative.........and i get paid for it. Thats what i think they do what they do. Thus dude knows the stuff he us putting out is manipulated to suit his narrative cause his audience wants to hear it. And the bigger the audience.....the steady $$$ flow. Its just like any other YTer channel......cater to what people want to see so you can get the views and here comes that cash. Mythvision dude aint stupid......he knows his audience is stupid enough to believe his manipulated reaearch and that he is going to keep doing it for as long as he keeps getting paid to.
@@Noxthedunmer Well spoken, yes. I don't see much evidence for intelligence either way so I can't say. I can say that a degree does not intelligence prove, and his videos, while eloquent, rarely strike me as intellectually demanding; he seems to be of average intellect.
In my view, what we have here are two people without PhDs and this gives them a sense of inferiority for which they are compensating with obscurantistism. They both need to calm down
So people who blaspheme Christ and the faith for a living turned out to be a pair of douches and aren't really your friends? Wow, now! Say it ain't so!
It's sad that people out there base trust on other's beliefs rather than how those beliefs make them act. In my experience Christian beliefs make a lot of people untrustworthy but I would never say all Christians are not to be trusted because I have seen people have Christian beliefs that make them more trustworthy. Same way with atheists, Muslims, Buddhists.
This is why light is to have no fellowship w darkness and we're instructed not to cast our pearls before pigs. Im so sorry you've been attacked. Im praying for your endurance and healing, brother.
I kinda have to agree with this old atheist TH-camr TaylorX04. He stopped making atheist TH-cam videos because the community has changed not for the better
Heliocentrism is directly tied to evolution and the Big Bang. You cannot have evolution and the Big Bang without the spinning ball. Your world view seems a bit confused…
I just went though Derek’s videos and his comment section wow idk if it’s the new atheists or what but they absolutely hate Christians they are literally just yes men
@@InspiringPhilosophyYea, some of them are saying you are throwing a tantrum, and that you are acting this way because your ego has been attacked and you cannot handle being wrong. Even Planet Peterson has made a comment. It truly is repugnant to see the double standard; when they make an error or they complain, it is a mistake and a criticism, but when Christians complain or make an error, it is sophistry and they are whining.
@@InspiringPhilosophyThe accusations of atheists in the comments are ridiculous. They accuse you of being arrogant for not being corrected, this is the most pathetic accusation I have seen. And answer me, is it about Baal and Jesus??
Once I saw the thumbnail of that video saying “he’s 100% wrong” I knew it was gonna be a lot of hyperbole lol They started the video, not with the point of the video, but with a montage of IP yelling to build a case for “arrogance” so that when they “expose” him it looks like it’s coming from a humble and credible source
I don’t believe that the three day & three Night is copied because if look at the Old Testament the Number three is used lot and there also many time 40 day & 40 nights is use in Old Testament. So there is a president for the use of three day & 3 night in the Bible.
It's funny how people like MythBlindness always use the most far fetched explanation instead of the most obvious one. Of course the 3 days motif is from the OT and not from paganism.
I wonder if Josh didn't know and genuinely needed to research, or if he didn't send it to you because he knew you would look up what he sent and he knew Derek would just spout it off without investigating it because Derek believes Kipp and Josh without any question.
I was subscribed to myth vision and before even watching this I unsubscribed from him. No one attacks by bro! 😂 Good Job IP I was waiting for a response from you!! We are all sinners and make mistakes. Can I have often heard you IP make corrections to certain things that you have said. Its sad that Myth vision and other similar channels seems to only mainly attack Christians. But of course the world will calls us blind and liars and malign our character. But God!!! Gives grace to the humble and strength for us walking this road. In my experience has been this!!! Praise God for what you're doing Michael Jones! You have helped me tremendously!
Well, I don't know any of the content of these three (and have but little pre-inclination any which way), but I just happened across Derek's M/V's just now posted reply-video (to this video above) and the first 15 mins was all him reasoning and self-justifying merely from his own assertions about the imaginary intentions of himself and others. That was enough for me. All the best!
Let me see if I got this right, you're telling me that the Vision Myth and the guy I don't even know are saying that Jesus was inspired by other gods?!? Are they still in the Zeitgeist documentary??"
Well, the sneaky thing is that the correct answer is " not exactly", their position is like yes Jesus did exist but everything about Him is made up, which is a neat little contradiction
I can't watch myth vision. Derek is very bitter. I mean his atheism schtick and myth nonsense is too much but the bitterness doesn't help. Same with Apologetics Roadshow. That guy seems bitter too...
IP I love your content and I support you. But with the grace of Christ I hope you have a conversation with Myth. You two have separate convictions and I believe as two people seeking the truth you should make amends. So please forgive Derek. I honestly think both of you aren’t completely right in this. But as a fellow Christian I think maybe both of you should have an honest conversation. God bless!
What kind of sucks is it seems like Christian and atheist TH-cam has become more volatile lately. I mean from the calmer people on both sides. There have always been crazy people on both sides, but lately it seems like everyone is more in tribalism.
From what I've seen(which isn't much) he toots his own horn on how much more welcoming and healthy their community is and how mean Ips chat was to him.
Mythvision podcast went directly to apologise XD hahahahahaha get out of here. Go listen to sum Dr.Kipp trashtalk LMAO... Its literally 2 am and Im bursting of laugh I can sleep now... oh my HOW BAD . Mythvision is... LOL
As a young earth creationist I love the equating YEC and being a flat earther on Mythvisions part. I can tell they've really attempted to understand YEC. Are there any other YECs in the comments lol. I just started listening to you less than a month ago IP. Thank you for all you do. I appreciate and respect you being solid in your views even though I'm on the opposite end of you on certain topics. I look forward to more live streams in the future brother.
At first, I thought ‘it’s really not that deep’. Then I thought ‘who would I expect to act like this towards me? If I were a TH-camr, and everyone in my contact list were also, who would I expect not to text me and clarify before making an hour+ video of public criticism?’ I couldn’t come up with anyone who would do that. I don’t think Derek has committed some ‘unpardonable sin’ but that is a socially incompetent (or, at the very least, odd) move to make. Derek was very animated when saying IP should have reached out to Josh. So I do have to wonder, if it bothered him that much, why wouldn’t he first act like an adult, take his own advice and reach out to IP before blasting him-IP-on the internet for almost four hours? Derek reached out to Josh. Derek reached out to his friend so his friend could air his grievances alongside him in the video. But in the month-or-so period of time it took him to make the video, he never thought to send a short text or give IP a call? I’d like to see them make up in the end but my limited reasoning skills and experience in dealing with other people gets me thinking this is not an everyday mistake.
Have any of you debated Adam Green yet? Seems like something you might want to find courage to do, given what is going on in the world. Well? Just more excuses?
I don't understand the 5th January issue. Jesus didn't turn water into wine at his baptism, and the Gospel of John was written long before the date was chosen. Even if I gave them everything I still can't see the causation
Nothing more than is already accounted for by the hellenization that took place before Jesus was even born. Read any of the Jewish scholars who wrote about Jesus and you'll see how deeply rooted the gospels are in the old testament and the Israelite religion. No necessity to borrow from Greek myth to fabricate a myth.
This drama farming is silly coming from both sides, and it goes both ways. IP could have reached out to Derek about these minor details at any point as well, instead of trying to smear him. Both parties seem to be talking by past each other rather than seeking to clarify their actual disagreements. Instead of making video after video uncharitably harping on each other’s minor mistakes, how about a conversation? IP’s stubborn insistence on implausible and frankly bizarre interpretations of the difference between a transformation and replacement miracle is telling, however. At the root of this, I suspect there is actually very little disagreement about the broader issues of cultural transmission and the argument is about degree of its scope and relevance to early Christianity.
CS Lewis said that Jesus is true myth, meaning that he is the fulfillment of hopes oh humanity not only Jews and that all myths in some way point to Jesus (however imperfectly). On this view we would expect similarities between some mythology and the Gospels, because the myths are expressions of hope that points to Jesus and they find their fulfillment in Jesus. It would be way more strange if the story and teaching of Jesus would be totally void of cultural references and connections. So, as I see it, it is not copying but fulfilling the hopes that are common to humanity. So the claim that Jesus turned water into wine like some deity or rose from the dead in three days like some other deity it is exactly what we should expect. Those were glimpses of hope that pointed towards the real hope. In fact if there are some religions that we are not aware of, they would most likely to have elements that we would recognize in Christ.
Yes: 2 Corinthians 10:5 (ESV) We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
@@crushinnihilism Well the question is asked to Christians and Christians respond according to their worldview. This is said by Paul one of the apostles, from a Christian pov (at least) the view that the text is inspired by the holy spirit is seen as true, so your point can only work from an atheist pov. (something irrelevant in this case)
For instance, in his letter to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 9:24-27), Paul uses athletic metaphors that resemble the kind of rhetoric found in Greek philosophy, including Aristotle's discussions of self-control and the pursuit of excellence. Acts 17:28: In the famous speech to the Athenians at the Areopagus (Acts 17), Paul quotes a line that is similar to a saying from the Stoic philosopher Epimenides but also has parallels to ideas expressed by Aristotle. The quote is, "For in him we live and move and have our being," which reflects a common philosophical belief about the divine's immanence in human life. Though this is not directly from Aristotle, it shows Paul's engagement with the broader philosophical landscape. While Paul doesn’t directly cite Aristotle or other Greek philosophers in a way that we see in later Christian writers, there is a clear presence of Greek philosophical ideas in his work, as well as engagement with the intellectual culture of his time. Also, IP never said that there is a direct quote from Aristotle, only that there are certain inspirations in Paul's writings
The only one who is triggered by this debate is IP - he seems more nervous both in his speech and his body language. But that is not just the case with @MythVisionPodcast or Dan Mcllelan but with all other atheists/sceptics that he engages with. Look at MythVision response to this video. As Derek pointed out in comment in this video you two should talk
I think you did a good job responding, well done as always honestly. But i still think you should invite derek to the stream, I get the fact that its difficult to have a conversation with someone who intended to hurt you, but maybe he wants to apologise or better explain the message of his video (even tho it think its quite obvious). So i really think you should invite him
IP has done that several times, and Derek still acts the same. Ultimately Derek cares more about providing hate porn of apologists for his fans than being a fair critic and friend.
You seeeeee the mythvision big and strong and has two people yelling at IP!!!! Humiliated!!! You’re done boy!
😂
I read this in David Wood's voice 😂
@@InspiringPhilosophy And they're now trying to frame YOU as the one who was chest thumping and being rude in their new response they made RIGHT after you made yours. The gaslighting is just crazy with these guys.
@@Hearth123 I read it in AP’s 🤣
Read their comments, on myth vision comments, literally looks like Muslims comment section
I knew Mythvision was garbage ever since his video on David wood. What his channel really is just a way for his fans to have their hatred of Christianity and apologists affirmed.
People forget the original draw to Mythvision was Robert Price who got non-personed when he casually mentioned he was voting for the "wrong person." Mythvision is spite and casual hatred all the way down
Yeah that David wood video was so bad. I wish Wood had responded to it.
Hatred? Opposite points of view are hatred? Sounds like a leftist narrative.
@ yeah Derek would have gotten cooked if David responded. Video was so terrible. The guy Derek brought on had no idea who he was talking to, he unironically told them Jesus was Jewish, like duh.
I hate being "that guy", but I've said it multiple times now: Derek is not a good-faith actor, even if he's convinced himself that he is. I saw it nearly a year ago give or take. I've been trying to warn people that he pretends to be nice and objective and approachable so that he can get close enough to stab you in the back. I've always had a generally good sense for when someone is like that, but ...well, without going into details, though if Mike remembers an email I sent him some time ago about a personal issue he'll know why, after the last couple of years I've been WAY tuned up to see people's behavior without rose-tinted glasses. And Derek absolutely lights that sense up like the 4th of July. I sincerely wish he didn't. If I had any advice for Christian apologists going forward it would be to stay away from the guy. He's like a bad ex that desperately wants to still be liked while he burns all the bridges he comes across.
EXACTLY. i’ve been confused about this for the longest time. why do people like mike and david wood think he’s a good dude or ”one of the good ones”? it seems so abundantly clear to me that he’s a snake just by looking at how he acts in people’s chats in contrast to how he acts in his videos, completely different
@@vedinthorn No, Derek will play off the situation for views, as does everyone else (IP has done this many times). As soon as Derek starts to come out on top people like you accuse him of stabbing people in the back to draw attention away from the fact that he was right. They both knew what they were doing from the beginning and IP is crying now because he's been exposed as a liar.
This was a back and forth TH-cam debate, what has Derek done or said that warrants this level of offense being taken? What "backstabbing" has taken place?
1:03:48 I don’t understand why this guy thinks the 3 day motif is such a big deal. Josh literally included the thing about Jonah in his correspondence, it’s obvious that it’s a common near eastern motif and not pagan borrowing.
Isn't that the same thing?
@ No, it’s not borrowing if it’s apart of everyday speech and writing. Someone can use the phrase “I’ll be back” and have never watched let along be copying the movie Terminator because it’s apart of everyday speech even though it was famously used there.
In this case it’s quite obvious that it’s just being used to borrow a phrase from Jonah (Matthew 12:40) and in neither case must it be taken as a literal time indicator.
@@BNBarbarous I'm making the inigo Montoya face right now😂
"mock them, ridicule them." -Richard Dawkins
That's what new Atheism is always About! It's more worse
Saul Alinsky would have been proud.
@@raphaelfeneje486 Ridiculous beliefs shouldn’t be ridiculed?
@davethebrahman9870 and what would be considered ridiculous belifs? a belif that you don't agree? can I go to an atheist and make fun of them for being an atheist or what about a debate or discussion?
@@IliyaKardgar Supernatural beliefs are ridiculous because in order to hold them one must ignore everything we have learnt about the world since the Scientific Revolution of the 17th century. Hume gave the decisive argument against accepting miracle stories based on testimony in 1748. Every new discovery has only confirmed that supernatural events don’t happen. Theists prefer to live in a world of goblins and fairies, like our pre-scientific ancestors. Ridicule is a valid response to adults who do this, just as it is to Flat Earthers and Homeopaths. The experience of being ridiculed can lead people to understand what they are incapable of seeing through logic.
@@IliyaKardgar Reply censored
The fervent....glee? and energy they're expressing going through this....like an addict finally getting their fix.... it's a bit concerning, really. Like they cannot even wait a millisecond to rip into their arguments, not even to listen to what was said...
They barely listened and just wanted to talk about their ideas.
@@InspiringPhilosophythey’re doing a livestream right now 😂
@@InspiringPhilosophy IP, are you going to respond to his response to his response?
This is honestly really sad. I really enjoyed Derek’s dialogues with Christians over the last couple years.
Let’s pray he seeks to make amends privately so those sorts of dialogues can come back. :)
Orthodox Christians do not celebrate Christmas on January 6, we celebrate it on December 25th. However, those Orthodox who use the Old Calendar celebrate it on the Julian 25th of December, which is January 7 on the Gregorian Calendar. A lot of people get mixed up about this.
Interesting nuance, thank you! :)
@CopeandSeethe325 as a Greek I can confirm
That is a fascinating clarification. Thanks!
Yes. Thanks for clarifying this.
For those who still don't understand, Derek who is supposedly friends with IP went to "expose" him without even asking his side and where they disagree. This isn't an honest mistake as Derek claims, its public slander
Turns out he's just another Jim Majors
If you watched Mythvision's 3 hr video he tells you he don't really know them personally but believes they're probably good people. The thing IP hates being corrected especially when he's wrong. He's like the Richard Carrier of Christian Apologetics. What do I mean by that? I mean he comes off as arrogant and not humble
@@cruzefrank no he doesn’t
@@mickeylax9975 Yes he does about 2 hours into their 3 hr video. Also IP doesn't thoroughly research. When he does he only utilizes sources that fit his narrative instead of what the data and evidence presents. I say IP really needs to work on being more humble and less arrogant. As well as be more honest in research
This is demonstrably false and tells me you didn’t watch any of the responses.
I'm so sorry your friend betrayed you like this IP. The joy and eagerness throughout this attempt at an exposed video is pathetic and disturbing. It hurts me to see you hurt as well. You mean a whole lot to me man - as you have helped strengthen my faith when I was very new to Christianity. I love you brother
I’ve never understood the argument that some Jews made up a Messiah that they and their converts would have to die for and be rejected from both Jewish society and pagan as well. Jews had many candidates for a messiah and abandoned them when they died. Why was Jesus different? They didn’t “make up stories” about the others.
It is because Jesus is the real deal, unlike their 1666 messiah or the Menachem Mendel Schneerson fellow. Fun Fact: The founder of *sr#el converted to Orthodox Christianity because even he saw the truth and writing on the wall.
@mdm123196 This isn't even the same contextual conparison. Without trying to make this political, Regarding 9/11, it was claimed to be done because of the U.S. involvement in the support of Israel replacing the Palestinians. In the view of the Muslims, they're fighting for the justice of their brethren. The 9/11 hijackers were like kamikaze.
Where as the early witnesses of Jesus were dying trying to proclaim witness of him. It would be akin to dying over a story they firsthand made up. It would make no sense to do that. Would you be willing to die over a fantasy you made up?
@Dnpnts like i said people were killing themselves for made-up beliefs way before Jesus.. and the truth is that there is very little actual historical evidence to confirm or deny that the twelve were actually martyred for believing in the resurrection. According to the Acts of Peter, Peter was crucified not because of his faith, but because Agrippa and Albinus were angry at Peter for causing their wives/concubines to become chaste. What actual historical evidence can you provide that the 12 were martyred for their faith? Most critical scholars think the accounts were legendary.
@mdm123196 first off, I was showing the difference between your comparisons and how they were flawed. I was showing you where the argument was coming from. Yes, there were martyrs for all kinds of reasons, not only for religious causes. But like I said, early witnesses were said to be martyred over a supposed lie.
Off the top of my head, James, the brother of Jesus was said to have been martyred, Josephus writes of it. Paul writes of his impending death. Yes, we can use Paul as a witness, even Bart Erman agrees with this fact. If we can use Paul, then add Stephen to the list as well. Then we have the apostolic fathers who died having claimed to be disciples of some of the original 12. It's well documented. That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure I can find more documentation if I look.
@Dnpnts Josephus wrote that James was stoned to death by the high preist Ananus because James broke the law of Moses. Not for believing in the resurrection. Bart Ehrman says in a few different blog posts that we can not know how they died because WE LACK HISTORICAL EVIDENCE. Google it. None of what you posted is historical evidence. We just don't know. What we have is church tradition, and that's it. It is not well documented. This is consesus critical scholarship.
These two are more dedicated to pretending to be attacked than Jussie Smolett
Yes IP loves to cry when his feelings are hurt lol
@blamtasticful What part of "these two" did you think was referring to the singular individual who filmed his own response to slanderous accusations by two soytards
Famous French actor.
Mythvision is just a big grift. You can tell by his subscribers. He has been flatline for a while. Michael he is not an honest broker, break ties with this dude.
All mythvision does is cope. He coped with jay dyer and he coped with you. These atheist apologist are beyond soft. They can't handle any kind of push back.
@@Taydutt13 they are their own gods. They cant handle being incorrect, that takes away their perceived power
@@Taydutt13 I would say the opposite. Christian apologists only using church sources and scholars forced to sign faith statements is not thorough research. When top notch scholars show that certain church dogmas are incorrect it's the Christian Apologist that can't handle the evidence
@@cruzefrank what evidence?
hes not right about ip but he is right about jay dyer that was just a terrible conversation lol
@@Greyz174 I think both make mythvision look bad
Mike standing on business! Glad you exposed these guys. They come to you in sheep's clothing but inward are ravenous wolves
Mythvison is a joke
Inspiring stupidity is
@@reeseexplains8935Insulting won't solve anything.
Don't call me that, have more respect
@@kapafrank2407 Right. Derek only has pseudo-scholars come on his channel
more than a Joke, he is paid by Antichristian elements like Soros(Devil's agent) to destroy Faith in Christians, expose this puppy.
Don't Gnostic Informant and Derrick reject a lot of what Dan McClellan and Bart Ehrman have to say for a lot of the stuff discussed in these videos? They also accept a lot of their arguments as well. its just picking and choosing certain arguments so their worldviews are always correct, and funnily enough, the have the nerve to accuse you of doing it. In an interview with Derrick, you can see that Dr. Tabor gets pretty annoyed on how childishly Derrick handles New testament scholarship, essentially molding it to fit HIS POINT OF VIEW.
Video link? Also isn't Dr. Tabor someone who just looks annoyed even if he isn't?
I wanted to like Derek, and l wanted to like Bowen. But they're just so bad faith, it's ridiculous. And associating with some of the worst Anti-theist apologists certainly doesn't help their approach
I only see one person whining about character assassination when called out on their BS.
Then you're not very perceptive
@@paradisecityX0 At least I'm not blind.
If you're an Anti-theist, you're blinder than a mole
@@blamtasticfulNo, you're a sycophant.
I just watched like 10 minutes of their livestream responding to this video. These guys are clearly toxic and STILL don’t understand the points you were making in this livestream. It’s actually really sad. Sorry you had to go through this IP.
Mythvision knows he is giving false information. There is no way he is that stupid. Its more likely that he thinks YOUR that stupid that you dont and wont research things for yourself.
In alot of his videos, he will claim something, give the texts and put it on screen.....if you read it, it actually doesnt say what he is claiming.
Ive made several comments calling it out. And of course, i never get a response.
He is ridiculous.
Of course the guy ain't stupid. He just doesn't like God and will do whatever to be in denial. Mythers are jokers.
@stevie6621 his followers, folks who watch his stuff........believe what he is saying. It seems legit cause he shows he does the research and he will bring in guests and folks that study historical things. So it has to be legit.....right.
Thats why i watch his videos. Maybe i missed something. But its pretty much all the same crap..........they all leave stuff out. Why? I dont know. To suit their view? They are in denial? Because they are catering to their fan base? Because they get paid to?
I think its the money. They see that they can get paid for this narrative so.....why not. Let me do some half fast research, just enough to convince folks and let me get some guests who share my narrative.........and i get paid for it.
Thats what i think they do what they do. Thus dude knows the stuff he us putting out is manipulated to suit his narrative cause his audience wants to hear it. And the bigger the audience.....the steady $$$ flow.
Its just like any other YTer channel......cater to what people want to see so you can get the views and here comes that cash.
Mythvision dude aint stupid......he knows his audience is stupid enough to believe his manipulated reaearch and that he is going to keep doing it for as long as he keeps getting paid to.
Should be “mythvision HUMILIATED!!”
Thank you for refuting MythVision and Billy Carson. Please refute Esoterica next, I already did that in my head.
Haha yeah I always did my thing in the comments or head with Billy for years. So satisfying to see it handled to scale.
The Esoterica guy can't take criticism
Esoterica is well spoken and very intelligent.
@@Noxthedunmer Well spoken, yes. I don't see much evidence for intelligence either way so I can't say. I can say that a degree does not intelligence prove, and his videos, while eloquent, rarely strike me as intellectually demanding; he seems to be of average intellect.
Esoterica was part of a satanic cult responsible for the Pearl HS shooting. Worth a google.
The "three day motif" argument is extremely dumb.
No single culture can trademark any number of days.
Peace of God guide your heart IP.
In my view, what we have here are two people without PhDs and this gives them a sense of inferiority for which they are compensating with obscurantistism. They both need to calm down
They go around happily inserting 'transformed' into Dionysus fountain miracle.
And they say the you are adding into the text.
And cite scholars as Michael isn't one...just that
@@blamtasticful did you watch the video
@@blamtasticful😂 what scholar ever made a convincing case that goes something like - look: water - > wine - must be "borrowed" from Dionysos?
The water does tranform into wine tho
@@crushinnihilism No, it does not.
It just flows as wine.
And when it is taken away from the area it is still Wine but it tastes like water.
Glad to see this response. I tried to watch their video, but couldn't get passed Derek getting all red and flushed throughout it.
There's a myth in Mythvision.
So people who blaspheme Christ and the faith for a living turned out to be a pair of douches and aren't really your friends? Wow, now! Say it ain't so!
😆😆😆😆👏👏👏💯
It's sad that people out there base trust on other's beliefs rather than how those beliefs make them act. In my experience Christian beliefs make a lot of people untrustworthy but I would never say all Christians are not to be trusted because I have seen people have Christian beliefs that make them more trustworthy. Same way with atheists, Muslims, Buddhists.
Also there's no such thing as blasphemy
This is why light is to have no fellowship w darkness and we're instructed not to cast our pearls before pigs. Im so sorry you've been attacked. Im praying for your endurance and healing, brother.
I never liked Derek and saw him as a snake oil salesman.
If Derek is the guy from MythVision, he is a joke. The guy is a teenage and has zero knowledge about Christianity and ancient history.
I am ready for another 100 back and fourths of this lol
Or 3 back and forths 100hours long 😂
I kinda have to agree with this old atheist TH-camr TaylorX04. He stopped making atheist TH-cam videos because the community has changed not for the better
I enjoyed the calmer approach of this video.
Mythers are worse than flat eathers 🤣
And most flat earthers happen to be Christians 😂🫵
@@pessimistic.zoomer Not true but nice try 😆
@@pessimistic.zoomer last time i checked the official flat earth society said the majorty of their members were secular
Heliocentrism is directly tied to evolution and the Big Bang. You cannot have evolution and the Big Bang without the spinning ball. Your world view seems a bit confused…
I believe in evolution, the Big Bang and the spherical earth..
I think derrick is lowkey a Billy Carson follower 😂
I just went though Derek’s videos and his comment section wow idk if it’s the new atheists or what but they absolutely hate Christians they are literally just yes men
Yeah, and they complain Christians are mean. Pot meet kettle
@@InspiringPhilosophyYea, some of them are saying you are throwing a tantrum, and that you are acting this way because your ego has been attacked and you cannot handle being wrong. Even Planet Peterson has made a comment. It truly is repugnant to see the double standard; when they make an error or they complain, it is a mistake and a criticism, but when Christians complain or make an error, it is sophistry and they are whining.
@@InspiringPhilosophyThe accusations of atheists in the comments are ridiculous. They accuse you of being arrogant for not being corrected, this is the most pathetic accusation I have seen. And answer me, is it about Baal and Jesus??
Once I saw the thumbnail of that video saying “he’s 100% wrong” I knew it was gonna be a lot of hyperbole lol
They started the video, not with the point of the video, but with a montage of IP yelling to build a case for “arrogance” so that when they “expose” him it looks like it’s coming from a humble and credible source
Thank you IP for what you do.
I don’t believe that the three day & three Night is copied because if look at the Old Testament the Number three is used lot and there also many time 40 day & 40 nights is use in Old Testament. So there is a president for the use of three day & 3 night in the Bible.
Jonah. Need I say more?
It's funny how people like MythBlindness always use the most far fetched explanation instead of the most obvious one. Of course the 3 days motif is from the OT and not from paganism.
Derreck also made another response video again, and it far more worse than before
All they do is lie. They have to, otherwise they wouldn't have a channel.
Thanks for describing Michael's channel!
@blamtasticful Projection is not an argument
@paradisecityX0 Neither is "you suck at perception" but it doesn't seem like you have a perspective worth taking seriously anyways....
@@henryschmit3340 l said you're not very perceptive, not that "you suck" at it. Nice try though
@blamtasticful I'm talking about 'Mythvision'.
Mythvision comes across as a jilted lover badmouthing his ex ... so many atheists deeply hurt by a God they say doesn't exist
MORE EXPOSING MYTHVISION!
Yes. Pray for them. They will hate your prayers for them but Gods love is stronger than their hate.
They don't care about your prayers. That's silly.
Derek also stabbed Robert Price in the back too
What did he do?
I wonder if Josh didn't know and genuinely needed to research, or if he didn't send it to you because he knew you would look up what he sent and he knew Derek would just spout it off without investigating it because Derek believes Kipp and Josh without any question.
I was subscribed to myth vision and before even watching this I
unsubscribed from him. No one attacks by bro! 😂 Good Job IP I was waiting for a response from you!!
We are all sinners and make mistakes. Can I have often heard you IP make corrections to certain things that you have said.
Its sad that Myth vision and other similar channels seems to only mainly attack Christians. But of course the world will calls us blind and liars and malign our character. But God!!! Gives grace to the humble and strength for us walking this road. In my experience has been this!!! Praise God for what you're doing Michael Jones! You have helped me tremendously!
Derek is Billy Carson Jr! And he knows it!
1:09:49 mic drop 😂😂😂
The biggest red flag to me about Derek is all of the suave, alpha male pictures on his website and elsewhere 😂
You guys should do a tag team thunderdome event to settle the score and get the guy who does paulogia to animate it
I never liked myth vision I been commenting crap in there comments for years.
But glad the channel is being EXPOSED RIGHT NOW!!!!!
I think this is the angriest I’ve seen IP
Well, I don't know any of the content of these three (and have but little pre-inclination any which way), but I just happened across Derek's M/V's just now posted reply-video (to this video above) and the first 15 mins was all him reasoning and self-justifying merely from his own assertions about the imaginary intentions of himself and others. That was enough for me.
All the best!
Let me see if I got this right, you're telling me that the Vision Myth and the guy I don't even know are saying that Jesus was inspired by other gods?!? Are they still in the Zeitgeist documentary??"
You've got it wrong brother
So I'm clear because I went halfway through the live
Well, the sneaky thing is that the correct answer is " not exactly", their position is like yes Jesus did exist but everything about Him is made up, which is a neat little contradiction
@danyboon4851 How is it invented when we have sources that say otherwise?
@azrael516 Derek probably believes everything in the gospels is made up and mostly taken from pagans and applied to a random teacher called Jesus
Keep strong, IP! We love you! Some of us owe our seats at the table to you! We’re paying for you! Please keep running the good race!
I've never seen anyone more smugly proud of themselves for obliterating endless straw men than the guy in the hat that IP is responding to. 😂
Ever since watching the myth vision debate with madebyjimbob I couldn't take that guy serious
I can't watch myth vision. Derek is very bitter. I mean his atheism schtick and myth nonsense is too much but the bitterness doesn't help. Same with Apologetics Roadshow. That guy seems bitter too...
Apologetic roadshow isn't bitter, he is just legitimately a psychopath
@briandiehl9257 really? Psychopath? I don't watch his stuff enough to know. What makes you come to that conclusion?
@@DUDEBroHey He says so frequently, you should watch his testimony video
Michael will you reply to them again??
IP I love your content and I support you. But with the grace of Christ I hope you have a conversation with Myth. You two have separate convictions and I believe as two people seeking the truth you should make amends. So please forgive Derek. I honestly think both of you aren’t completely right in this. But as a fellow Christian I think maybe both of you should have an honest conversation. God bless!
What kind of sucks is it seems like Christian and atheist TH-cam has become more volatile lately. I mean from the calmer people on both sides. There have always been crazy people on both sides, but lately it seems like everyone is more in tribalism.
MythVision creating bunch of Myth about you and Bible?? Why not Im surprised
You don't get to reach out and punch a man in the jaw, then demand a light sentence in court.
Derek is a sell out
He is a kid (a teenager to be precise)
Myth Vision is responding to your live Michael. I want to know what's going on. What's the reason?
From what I've seen(which isn't much) he toots his own horn on how much more welcoming and healthy their community is and how mean Ips chat was to him.
@thesnatcher3616 Could you say everything they say? Are they citing academics to prove that Jesus is inspired by Baal?
@azrael516 Might as well just watch it rn.
I'm not going to watch it, I saw that they are saying that Baal inspired the story of Jesus from what I'm seeing
@azrael516I've seen some convincing arguments that Islam was inspired by baal worship.
Mythvision podcast went directly to apologise XD hahahahahaha get out of here. Go listen to sum Dr.Kipp trashtalk LMAO... Its literally 2 am and Im bursting of laugh I can sleep now... oh my HOW BAD . Mythvision is... LOL
As a young earth creationist I love the equating YEC and being a flat earther on Mythvisions part. I can tell they've really attempted to understand YEC. Are there any other YECs in the comments lol.
I just started listening to you less than a month ago IP. Thank you for all you do. I appreciate and respect you being solid in your views even though I'm on the opposite end of you on certain topics. I look forward to more live streams in the future brother.
At first, I thought ‘it’s really not that deep’. Then I thought ‘who would I expect to act like this towards me? If I were a TH-camr, and everyone in my contact list were also, who would I expect not to text me and clarify before making an hour+ video of public criticism?’ I couldn’t come up with anyone who would do that.
I don’t think Derek has committed some ‘unpardonable sin’ but that is a socially incompetent (or, at the very least, odd) move to make.
Derek was very animated when saying IP should have reached out to Josh. So I do have to wonder, if it bothered him that much, why wouldn’t he first act like an adult, take his own advice and reach out to IP before blasting him-IP-on the internet for almost four hours? Derek reached out to Josh. Derek reached out to his friend so his friend could air his grievances alongside him in the video. But in the month-or-so period of time it took him to make the video, he never thought to send a short text or give IP a call?
I’d like to see them make up in the end but my limited reasoning skills and experience in dealing with other people gets me thinking this is not an everyday mistake.
I always thought IP was a total schmuck for calling Mythvision a friend.
Yea
Cool?
Schmuck.. A yiddish word..ביידיש דברים!!
Hi, sorry guys. Can I get a source on the whole Rationality Rules trying to bait David Wood thing at (1:44:24)?
25:25 well, when one’s god is one’s self, every offense is a blasphemy.
Gnosticism was destroyed in 180 ad by St. Irenaeus. We need to pray for these two.
Have any of you debated Adam Green yet? Seems like something you might want to find courage to do, given what is going on in the world. Well? Just more excuses?
I don't understand the 5th January issue. Jesus didn't turn water into wine at his baptism, and the Gospel of John was written long before the date was chosen. Even if I gave them everything I still can't see the causation
It is possible that the new testament might have a slight Greek " flavor " to its writings .
Social, economic and historical
Nothing more than is already accounted for by the hellenization that took place before Jesus was even born. Read any of the Jewish scholars who wrote about Jesus and you'll see how deeply rooted the gospels are in the old testament and the Israelite religion. No necessity to borrow from Greek myth to fabricate a myth.
This drama farming is silly coming from both sides, and it goes both ways. IP could have reached out to Derek about these minor details at any point as well, instead of trying to smear him. Both parties seem to be talking by past each other rather than seeking to clarify their actual disagreements. Instead of making video after video uncharitably harping on each other’s minor mistakes, how about a conversation?
IP’s stubborn insistence on implausible and frankly bizarre interpretations of the difference between a transformation and replacement miracle is telling, however. At the root of this, I suspect there is actually very little disagreement about the broader issues of cultural transmission and the argument is about degree of its scope and relevance to early Christianity.
They weren't storming the Capital, they were celebrating the feast of Dionysus.
I psycho analysied Derek and saw this coming long ago
I can't believe you broke up with derek , you two used to be a good couple and great example of how a christian & atheist can be best buddies
We need a new response for their new video.
We should keep him in our prayers.
As a veteran of the Weeb Wars, I can affirm politics are gay.
this was needed thank you man!
I look forward to your response to them IP
CS Lewis said that Jesus is true myth, meaning that he is the fulfillment of hopes oh humanity not only Jews and that all myths in some way point to Jesus (however imperfectly). On this view we would expect similarities between some mythology and the Gospels, because the myths are expressions of hope that points to Jesus and they find their fulfillment in Jesus. It would be way more strange if the story and teaching of Jesus would be totally void of cultural references and connections. So, as I see it, it is not copying but fulfilling the hopes that are common to humanity. So the claim that Jesus turned water into wine like some deity or rose from the dead in three days like some other deity it is exactly what we should expect. Those were glimpses of hope that pointed towards the real hope. In fact if there are some religions that we are not aware of, they would most likely to have elements that we would recognize in Christ.
Could someone tell me what's going on?
I never wanted to like either one of them and I never liked either one of them . Theyre simply not likeable people in my opinion.
Is fighting fire with fire what Jesus preached for us to do?
Yes:
2 Corinthians 10:5 (ESV) We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,
@lizzard13666 notice it's not christ saying that
@@crushinnihilism Well the question is asked to Christians and Christians respond according to their worldview. This is said by Paul one of the apostles, from a Christian pov (at least) the view that the text is inspired by the holy spirit is seen as true, so your point can only work from an atheist pov. (something irrelevant in this case)
@@crushinnihilism he worked for Christ.
@@Playinggaming-r8u early Christians didn't have a consistent worldview. It took centuries before they worked things out, and they still disagree.
Where'd Paul quote Aristotle?
For instance, in his letter to the Corinthians (1 Corinthians 9:24-27), Paul uses athletic metaphors that resemble the kind of rhetoric found in Greek philosophy, including Aristotle's discussions of self-control and the pursuit of excellence.
Acts 17:28: In the famous speech to the Athenians at the Areopagus (Acts 17), Paul quotes a line that is similar to a saying from the Stoic philosopher Epimenides but also has parallels to ideas expressed by Aristotle. The quote is, "For in him we live and move and have our being," which reflects a common philosophical belief about the divine's immanence in human life. Though this is not directly from Aristotle, it shows Paul's engagement with the broader philosophical landscape.
While Paul doesn’t directly cite Aristotle or other Greek philosophers in a way that we see in later Christian writers, there is a clear presence of Greek philosophical ideas in his work, as well as engagement with the intellectual culture of his time. Also, IP never said that there is a direct quote from Aristotle, only that there are certain inspirations in Paul's writings
The only one who is triggered by this debate is IP - he seems more nervous both in his speech and his body language. But that is not just the case with @MythVisionPodcast or Dan Mcllelan but with all other atheists/sceptics that he engages with. Look at MythVision response to this video. As Derek pointed out in comment in this video you two should talk
DAE feel a creepy culty vibe from the Mythvision followers?
1:54:00 Low Church response? Based?
These guys shoud've clasped hands and jumped up and down to get the excitement out....too much kool aid?
1:47:52 Nathan who? I’d like to look the person up IP is talking about
I think you did a good job responding, well done as always honestly. But i still think you should invite derek to the stream, I get the fact that its difficult to have a conversation with someone who intended to hurt you, but maybe he wants to apologise or better explain the message of his video (even tho it think its quite obvious). So i really think you should invite him
IP has done that several times, and Derek still acts the same. Ultimately Derek cares more about providing hate porn of apologists for his fans than being a fair critic and friend.
Basilides is pro ounced basil- i - des. The I is long like the final ee
Not in Greek.
Anyone who calls themselves a prophet during a podcast is cringe
Knew it from his first video:
Mythvision and gnostic informant are fronts for rabbinical nonsense.
1 Thessalonians 2
John 8
Etc.
Great job Michael