MAF Training and 10 Misconceptions | Arthur Lydiard and Dr. Phil Maffetone
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- Recently I keep hearing more and more endurance athletes talk about MAF Training, mostly positive, sometimes negative. I've realized there are several misconceptions about this non-traditional training approach.
In today's new episode #28 of the Extramilest Show, I'm taking a deeper dive into MAF Training and also discuss the following:
10 MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT MAF TRAINING
1: MAF TRAINING IS ONLY TRAINING AT LOW HEART RATE
2: YOU NEED SPEEDWORK TO RACE FASTER
3: MAF TRAINING WORKS FOR EVERYONE
4: MAF ONLY WORKS FOR THOSE WITH LOW FITNESS LEVELS
5: THE MAF 180 FORMULA IS ACCURATE FOR EVERYONE
6: MAF TRAINING DOESN’T WORK BECAUSE I HAVE TO WALK
7: I’M NOT PROGRESSING, SO IT DOESN’T WORK
8: YOUR MAF HR SHOULD BE AVERAGE HR ON WORKOUT
9: MAF TRAINING HAS NO VARIATION
10: THE MAF TRAINING APPROACH IS LIKE A CULT
LINKS AND TOOLS MENTIONED:
* Big Book of Endurance Training and Racing by Dr Phil Maffetone: amzn.to/2WAcfbT
* Marathon PR Program: www.extramilest.com/marathon
* Extramilest Facebook Group: / 209003219602686
* Jonathan Walton Extramilest Show: • How to Improve Your Ru...
* Larisa Dannis Extramilest Show: • HR Training with Laris...
* Josh Sambrook Extramilest Show: • Race Faster by Trainin...
* Jason Cherriman: • Heart Rate Training wi...
* Julianne Dickerson: • CIM 2019 | California ...
* Mark Cucuzzella: • Dr. Mark Cucuzzella on...
* Mark Allen: • Mark Allen Interview o...
YOU CAN FIND ME, FLORIS GIERMAN HERE:
► Personal Best Program: www.pbprogram.com/
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► Website - extramilest.com
► Podcast - extramilest.com/podcast/
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I was definitely grumpy and stressed with this at first. I complained more than most.
But these days, I’m having more fun running than ever, whether that’s at a maf pace or on a long tempo run.
Haha, the complaining part surely sounds recognizable. Glad you're having more fun running than ever, that's what it's all about!
the same, funny Kofuzi, i watched your video on this too. I would think, "i used to run 6 miles at 7:30, now im going to look slow going at 9:30". it was def hard to slow down.
probably my biggest motivation was watching my Ultra training budding, who trains at very low HR, without planning it, took off in a local half marathon at mile 3 and ended up averaging like 6:50.
@@zacharyscrimsher7319 That's great, did you see your race times getting faster? My current paces are very similar to yours.
I’m a beginning runner that could run an easy 9 minutes mile. Now I’m into the 13 14 minutes range. Totally frustrated and in disbelief that my hr is always going above my target 133.
@@cortezthekiller8178 I’m in the almost same boat as you. Just started out this week. Encouraged by other’s results and videos like this, and trusting the process to work out over time as we keep consistent to it. I’ve done 5ks around 20 mins, 10ks around 50 minutes, half marathons around 2 hours or 10 min/mile a couple of years ago. Keep up the good fight!
As a non-runner I started with MAF method just for health benefits and besides having lots of fun during my runs I have progressed heavily in 1,5 months. My HR went down significantly. At first I was struggling to run 10min/km within the MAF HR, now I am 8min/km and feeling great! :D So I definitely recommend it. I think its the most easiest and maybe even fastest ways to develop healthy cardio in shortest time. Cheers!
thank you so much, i have been looking left and right trying to determine if my 10min/km is normal, i just started MAF for a week, was wondering if i was doing something wrong
Thank you so much for your comment! I just started MAF and I'm at 10.5 min / km. My heartrate still spikes and start walking to bring it down. I'm happy to hear that it gets better with time. Long and slow can be frustrating but if it gets results in the long run, quite literally, it's great!
its normal bro. 10/km is good for a starter@@iduncareanimore
Yeah look at jakob and the late kelvin kipton, they all use maf 😂
I started MAF training and was upset about the slow speed runs for the first few days… but then, I noticed I started enjoying every run. It takes so much pressure off just having a timer and the heart rate monitor with a high HR alarm set. The improvements in all zones started immediately and I’ve officially ran every day for over a month without pain.
what device do you use for high HR alarm set.?
There was a book I read in college which was written by a runner who used the Lydiard method, he made the '68 Olympic team in the marathon despite having only average talent and average collegiate marks at Univ of Minnesota. Post college, he applied Lydiard's concepts and qualified at the trials race which was held at Alamosa, Colorado. It's a great book because it describes the Lydiard method and his journey using it to become an Olympian. His name was Ron Daws, the name of the book was "The Self Made Olympian".
Yes! Ron Daws. He also wrote “Running your Best”. At the end of that book he describes the qualifying marathon and how he had trained for the conditions and passed Billy Mills in the final miles to take that third spot on the team. I remember: when it’s your day to go slow old ladies in walkers should pass you by.
Started MAF training & I absolutely love it! I’m 64 & I have had to walk a lot in the beginning but as time goes by I’m walking less & less. Normally run around 9 min pace on long runs but with MAF I have had to slow down to around 12 min a mile… I’m now down to around 11 min & it’s getting better! It’s really fun & I can’t wait to see how I progress! 🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️🏃♀️
This training approach really works wonderful for me. On june 2023 i can run just as long as 1.75km pace 750 with 170 avg HR, by the end of December 2023 i can run my first HM pace 640 avg HR in 160. Amazing how this training method changes my aerobic capacity
Starters Carnivore Diet 4 months ago, started MAF traing 7 runs ago (a week ago)
I love being able to sing out loud while maintaining MAF. Makes it soooo much more enjoyable than busting my ass, "killing" every segment.
Excelent explanation of the MAF method. I am 75 , I do race walking , I haven't run for 25 years. I started MAF training 9 month ago , and it took a lot of patience , a change in my diet , and learn to rest not straining my body. I have improved 40 Sec.my time in a KM at 120 bpm. and my 5 K competition time in over 2 Min. Also I can do 15-20km. more per week. I have recently added once a week a tempo run, every other training remains under 120 bpm. I feel better than ever , and I am enjoying my sport even more. On top of that Iam 20 lbs. less in weight , and my % of fat is less than 10% , something that was unattainable for me before. Thank you again for the valuable information.
Eduardo
Incredible to hear that Eduardo. Thank you for making my day. Glad you've found an approach that works well for the race walking. Well done on your improvements, all the best on your journey!
Nice video and great job explaining the nuances of MAF base training
Thank you so much for these videos! Full of great information and your channel is just a big inspiration as well, appreciate all you do Floris! Just starting out, and I'm excited to see how the results turn out.
Great video Floris! Agree with everything said. Thanks for your great info and being such a positive person!
Thanks a lot Nick, much appreciated. Easy to talk about a subject I'm very passionate about :)
Floris... you're so great. Keep the good work. 👍👍This guy deserves more subscribers. I am so grateful that I discovered your channel 9 months ago. My 1:29h HM PR says everything. Before 1:36h
Thank you very much for clearing this up! Really useful videos keep it up.
Means a lot, thank you Adrian 🙏
Great summary here! Appreciate the thoughtful approach to answering questions and misconceptions. Keep up the great work!
🙏 means a lot, thanks Barry
Another great video, Flo! Appreciate the insights brother!
🙏 thanks Greg, means a lot coming from you brother. Hope you're well!
Definitely one of the best MAF videos I’ve seen!
Thanks Floris. Another great video. I’ve learned so much from your videos, website and FB groups!
So happy to hear that Tina, appreciate your kind words and support as always!
This just popped up on my TH-cam feed, I've been using MAF for several years and really enjoy the approach. One point I'd pick up on, Floris mentions using Max HR as a guide to finding training zones. There's plenty of published papers on Pub Med that show Max HR is not a reliable guide to identifying aerobic zones or fat max and according to the doctor that created the 220 formula it was never intended to be used to calculate Max HR across all populations.
This is a helpful video on the topic of MAF training.
Your articles have helped me be patient and overcome frustration. 2nd month in and I'm already feeling a great benefit in my running and outside of running. Thank you.
Great video, you always strive to learn more and help other people, thank you 👍🏿👍🏿
Thank you! Always happy to help spread the word about something that has worked well for me and for many others around the world. I just want more people to positively get impacted in one way or another. Have fun on your runs Justin! Cheers
Great audio 👍 And great content, meaningful and useful. Keep it up Floris!
:) thanks for noticing the audio haha! Glad you enjoyed it Simon. Cheers!
As always I love each episode! My experience with MAF Training has been incredible. I started training for my first marathon last summer with a typical training approach and encountered the same experience every time I started a running "program" for exercise, I hated it. I then discovered the MAF approach in August and it completely changed by view on running for me, I loved it! I am fit but not aerobically fit, and that was a big eye opener for me. I successfully completed my marathon in December and am already excited for the next one. MAF training makes so much sense and I fully believe in the process, the patience is the hardest part. But I am committed and happy I have the entire year to truly build my aerobic base. Thank you for all the great information! Aloha! Lisha
Great video and explanation Floris. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. A lot of common sense and good advice 😊
🙏🙏 Thanks and cheers Tim!
Great video, thank you I guess I did the same and ran my first Marathon under sub 4. Will bring in some variations as mentioned. ❤Believe in the Process
Fantastic video. Great information. Great to see Dr. Mark Cucuzzella mentioned here.
Floris you're definetly doin' a great job with these videos. Thank you so much.
Happy to hear that. This video took a while to make, but felt it was way overdue. Glad you enjoyed it. thanks Alessandro!
Thanks and gratitude with all your video that you made. It is very useful for me!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Man at moment im training for my first marathon following the polar flow program what looks similar to maf because of you after the marathon I will definitely have a go on maf. Thank you. Love your videos
I just finished my first marathon in Houston and was able to feel strong all the way through. After numerous injuries my first 18 months of running, my doctor recommended looking into MAF (I was overtraining quite badly trying to act like I was 35 and not 50) and I found this channel with a wealth of information and encouraging/inspirational testimonies from other 50+ age group runners. Since August I have been using MAF and have been healthy and progressing consistently and was able to finish my first marathon sub-4. Other than my quads being a little sore (still have plenty of running form improvement to go) I'm feeling great and credit much of that to not beating my body up for the last 6 months using LHR training. Thanks for all the great content and finding great testimonials to share with us Floris!
You have a great doctor!! Well done on your first marathon. All the best with your training Barry
😊 9:30
Thank you for this in depth explanation !
Anytime Wissam. Excited about your running journey my friend. You have some massive PR's in your future. 🙌🙌
Video title delivered, it cleared a bunch of my misconceptions
Excellent, mission accomplished!
I want to a performance lab and had my training zones calculated. Later, I came across the Maffetone 180-age formula, and the formula yielded the exact same training zones. I am enjoying running more than ever as a result have remained injury free. Keep up the great work Floria.
I have never been good at running or endurance. I have rarely been able to run further than like 500m for most of my life. Within a minute my heartrate has been close to max and ive tasted blood. I decided to try this MAF approach instead second time I tried it I could suddenly run without getting more and more out of breath. For the first time ever my legs hurt 10x more than my lungs 😅😊
I’m a former 10:20 Ironman triathlete, now getting off the couch after years of career choices displacing fitness. My singular goal this time (running only) is a sustainable lifestyle that includes regular exercise... even just getting started I’m conditioning myself to celebrate how easy it feels but being able to measure the progress (getting incrementally faster at the same HR, losing weight, etc). Most importantly, I can see how lower intensity directly supports greater consistency - in the MACRO view, there’s simply no substitute. I’m 40 and I know me at 50 is far more likely to be happy if I’ve run 4-6 times a week for 10 years vs the up/down roller coaster of occasional bouts of fitness... even intense fitness with rapid progress, followed by months or even years of injury, burnout, or just giving up and regressing.
Just wanted to say I love your channel and find the content stimulating, but I really like the approach you’re taking to produce more digestible focused videos vs hour-plus podcast/vlog content that tries to cover everything.
Appreciate your videos Floris. The research you use to back information is great. The interviews, the book, you’re experience. It’s really help me in my own running and staying injury free. I’m in a building phase currently for a marathon in early October and (knock on wood) I’m staying injury free vs. last year I was throwing in too much speed work. I still throw in some hill workouts every few weeks to keep the VO to Max up, but the majority is lhr. Appreciate the work you do!!
Excellent, stay injury free Stefan, all about that long game!
Most of my training was high intensity in cycling for speed, HIIT exercise and lately try to run (always try to improve my pace too). Then i find MAF training. Yes my pace slower than before but after exercise i can sleep well without feeling pain. I have more energy to run or ride longer.
Just realized my body was too tired after heavy exercise in the past. So i cant sleep well even though i felt so tired
Listening to the body is the most important lesson I've learned, and being a bit liberal with the 180 formula. I'm 37 years old, and I benefit keeping my low intensity runs below 147ish. If I'm on a 7 mile "easy" run, my first two miles pretty much always average 120 bpm, then slowly progress through the zone up to approx 147. Sometimes I'll be at 150 toward the end, but my body knows I'll get good rest and is prepared mentally for the next days runs 👍thanks for the video!
Very very good, Floris. Attitude has a big effect on heartrate and development.
🙏🙏 it really is all connected Rob. Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks!
Really helpful video, thank you. I'm trying 80/20 heart rate training after stumbling on the book when I was an armchair runner at the end of last year - following a stress fracture in training! I think consistency is important so I'm not going to jump to MAF now, but everything in this video felt like it would apply.
Happy to hear that. All the best in your training Steven!
Just started with MAF training. Was always a ‘no pain no gain’ believer until I saw your videos and researched on it. Thanks
Great to hear that. Keep it up!
Very good points, Floris, dr. Phil Maffetone would be glad to watch your explanation clarifying misconceptions! I can confirm you can like the MAF approach that you don't really want to run with higher intensity unless you are in preparation for a race. I have almost 3 years of MAF experience, initially with injuries, learning from own faults but today I'm not afraid of running faster if I want without the fear of getting injured. Thanks to low heart rate training and Floris's videos and interviews!
3 years already is a solid amount of MAF training right there Csaba! Exciting running year ahead for you. 🙏
Good info right there.. 🤙
Thank you floris. 🏃♂️
🙏👍Thanks Jeppe!!
Lovely video. Nice to hear you mention Mark Cucuzella. I read Run For Your Life about 3 months ago and it completely changed my training approach. I used to do all sorts of speedwork and drills and hill repeats that I had learned from Pete Magill's book, but I couldn't run much more than 3 miles. Now I am running over 30 miles a week and just did my first 21k long run. I've changed my shoes and my diet too. I'm still slow but I believe in the process and I have decided not to do any tempo runs until i get my easy pace under 10 min/mile. I'm going to do a half marathon in May 2023 and it's too early set any time goals. I have a good amount of time to continue base training and get comfortable with distances.
I have a quick question - for a more beginning runner does it make sense to do the monthly MAF test at 5k distance instead of 8k?
Very informative, the tip to slow down was the best tip i ever had
Glad it was helpful!
Great info thanks. For those interested,, I found the Wahoo ticr-x heart rate monitor really useful for these MAF runs as I could set it to announce my current HR every minute, for example and that way could target exactly what I wanted.
glad you found something that works for you, I haven't tried that one yet
Ahh no 8 confirmed my suspicions , I had started (what I thought) was MAF training on 1st May using average HR but watching your videos realized this was wrong , so I have adjusted since 13th May just 5 days ago , 53 years old with 2 years training my max is 132 bpm , 5 runs so far average HR for runs so far is about 124 bpm @ 9.40 pace , I did a 3.6 mile trail course I can run in 32 minutes it took just over 40 including having to walk up some short steep hills , Will stick with this and see how I progress thank you for this video
I really appreciate your videos Floris. I just started low heart rate training 2 months ago. I have already seen improvement. Thank you for all the encouragement!
Nice work on already seeing improvements @thesarge. Imagine training this way and improving further for the next 6 - 12 months!
That is the expectation right now. You are great at interviews and I love the caliber of guests. This channel has been very addicting. Cannot wait to see how I compete this year running and going to give triathlons a shot as well. Thank you again sir, and keep up the good work!
How are you getting on with MAF now 4 months later?
I have been training incorrectly but will try MAF Training. It makes sense. Thank you for this and your other super-informative videos on the subject.
Happy to hear that!
My problem with this as a beginner is that I could hit a slight incline around the neighborhood, or get impeded by construction, or just have thought of something unpleasant, and my heart rate will take small swings. Not to mention that I could run at a conversational pace and my heart rate will exceed 140/MAF. Which makes it nearly impossible to keep consistently in MAF zone unless I constantly check my fitness watch and walk the moment I hit a hill. Maybe this works with better trained individuals with an intuition about how fast they'd need to go, but the only way I can imagine MAF training working would be on a track or the treadmill.
Going through some of your older post, you never know what nuggets of knowledge can be picked up
Plenty old videos to catch up on haha, enjoy!
Great video and I appreciate that you discuss the flaws with heart-rate formulas. A good rule is to start slow and end faster--Lydriad's ideal that you go out easier and return faster is probably the best pace advice. Runners need to learn to listen to their bodies.
MAF training is an excellent place to start with the increase in the mileage, and it is with consistent mileage and training that you will see the best results.
👍🙏yes, listening to the body is definitely such an important component
Hey Floris, great clarification on MAF. I've been doing MAF training for 6 weeks now and can see improvements on my run already. I'm still on base building phase but will start on speed work once I begin to feel comfortably uncomfortable. Keep up the excellent message on MAF.
Well done Andrew, nice work on already seeing improvements. Thanks and have fun on your runs!
Great video. Learning to read your own body is very important & is/was challenging. Learning to relax & meditate on a long run has really helped me to run further distances at a greater rate.
I have not been running for 10days to to extreme cold weather. I am looking forward to getting some nice weather & go for a nice long run.
Corwyn Warwaruk hope you get back running soon. As you say, listen to your body 👍🏼
Hi Corwyn, It can surely feel challenging at first to really learn to listen to read your own body. This takes time to realize how signals feel. Glad you've found something that works for you. Sending your positive warm weather vibes from Los Angeles
Floris Gierman we got over the freezing mark today so I went out for an easy run ... set PR in 5km, 10km, & 21.1km. Felt great for an easy run until 21km... that last 100m was the worst!
Was able to run in zone 2 for 15km then picked up the pace & ran on the dark side for 4km then dropped back to zone 2 for the last 2km to cool down & let my body clear lactate. Going fast felt good then felt really not good.
I can’t wait for the snow to leave and for the green grass to return. Another 3 months of winter & snow!
To think a year ago I was close to 300lbs and hated walking & today I ran 21.1km. Great change can happen in a short time.
Hey Floris, I was introduced to your channel a couple of months back and absolutely love it, really enjoying my runs now and have learnt so much thank you. I am 23 and just ran my second marathon in sub 3, based on MAF training and your channel. I did very little speed work. Thank you for all the help and amazing information. love it.
Wow, well done on running Sub 3 in your 2nd marathon by 23 years old. You have a bright running future ahead my friend. Keep doing what you're doing! Thanks for letting us know
Great achievement. May I ask how many miles/km in your peak of training? And your average miles/km?
@@guitarman7575 Thanx pretty proud, feel free to check out my strava and reach out to me as well. www.strava.com/athletes/4646029.
In general I started building at the end of August with the aim to get up to 83-90 km a week. (This was based on tanda race predictor which said if I could run 87km a week @4:30 min/km pace then I would be on target to break 3.) So I started trying to build the kms and hoped that while running at my MAF hr my pace would increase to about 4:30. My max week around 93km. Check out my strava for exact details the race was the 3rd of Jan.
I listened to a lot of podcasts, and focused on some chi techniques, breathing, cadence etc. Trying to be light on my feet and listening to my body. Loved the whole process. Excited for the next challenge, good luck.
@@Codzilla71 hey, slightly confused by your question, when floris and I speak about low heart training we are speaking about the training process, training at a low hr. (As opposed to doing many interval sessions and tempo sessions).
@@Codzilla71 I actually did not wear my hr strap for the marathon and my avg hr acc. to my watch was 170 bpm. However my avg hr over the 3 months leading into the race was 149. I was 23 when I ran the marathon.
I learnt about MAF training when I was younger but could not do it for the very reason you mentioned. I was doing martial arts at the time with a lot of high intensity workouts per week. Even then I felt like I was aerobically unfit. I'd start to sweat as soon as we started training! I was anaerobically tough though and would work harder than most in a session having to change my top/gi half way through every session cos I sweated so much! In hindsight I'm sure now I should have stopped MA training for a time and done some aerobic base building but that never happened! Now I'm joining the cult of MAF! 😆 Cos it's good for me.. Same as I joined the cult of eating food when I was very young! 🤣 🤣 Keep up the great work Floris!
haha, glad you've discovered it now!
Great Vid Floris
🙏 Thanks PurpleWolf!
You make a lot of great points. It’s not a one-size-fits-all, as you have clearly said. I know I’m one data point, but of the last 4 marathons in the past 2 years, the 3 training programs where I did twice weekly speed work all resulted in half hour faster times (and BQ’s) versus the one where I did not do such speed work - all at similar total mileage. Granted, I wasn’t formally following the MAF plan and other variables may have played a role, but I seem to benefit from speed sessions, even around age 60. That said, I may give MAF another shot in when I start training for NYC later this year.
Happy to hear you've found something that's working for you @Carl. Even with a MAF training approach, you can still add speed sessions once or twice a week, as long as your body is able to handle it and ideally after you've developed an aerobic base first. All the best on your running journey!
Thanks a lot for these explanations - I'm just starting with the MAF training, and most of the doubts I had are treated in this video.
I'm using this approach for my current phase of base building. My hour maff pace is 4:51 per k and I had to resist passing people who overtake me
This summer I did a lot of sessions at moderate to high intensity. Just for the fun of it. After a short period of improvement I noticed that my longer runs or rides at an attempted easy pace got harder and harder. I think that's a sure sign that you should go back to square one: base building. Which is what I do now.
Exclusively training at an easy effort for more than a few months is still not optimal unless for health reasons or if you really detest higher intensity sessions. If you yearn for sprint or tempo sessions after months of MAF: do them! They're great! You won't lose your aerobic base by doing an intense workout once in a while.
I started after my second marathon on Dec 1st and have been training at MAF up-to now. Just PR’d in half marathon by almost 4 minutes, 1:30:04.8.The last week though I did add some speed work just to get leg turnover comfort. I plan on continuing until my next marathon in October, November, or December. Just adding miles and base. Add speed towards the end! Thank you for all the information you provide and some great interviews!
Congrats on a strong new PR Tony, keep it up!
Thank you Floris for the content you provide through You Tube and your podcast!
I´ve just saw your vídeo and feel on the mood for a slow easy run :-)
haha enjoy!
Why dint I find this video years ago, I've been injured multiple times during my training. now Im in my 40s and still love to run
average pace from 12/km to 9/km just in a couple of months
I was so frustrated and grumpy at first that I need to walk almost 75% of my session! now I'm loving it!
Glad you were able to pivot your mind from frustration to joy! Keep doing what you're doing Jeffrey. Cheers
I started MAF and where I usually run 15km a week I am running 40km a week at maf. So the increase in mileage helps mentally as I may have a much reduced pace but at least my mileage has increased. Hoping the higher mileage will accelerate developing aerobic base.
I started to apply the maf training formula,my age is 58-180=122 hearth rate-i run 5 kilometers,im okey and feel good!thanks for this video clip!
Hello! Great video, congrats!!
My dad is getting into MAF training and he doesn't speak English, so he asked me to write subs to this video in Portuguere since there's like zero people talking about it in Brazil. Would you mind if he uploaded the subtitled video to his instagram page (with credits, ofc) so his running buddies could see it too? I thought about that because TH-cam discontinued the community subtitles contributions and this content is super important.
Very, very good! Thanks a lot! :)
🙏👍
It took about 4 months for me to really see improvement. It took me cleaning up my diet to really make it work. I get annoyed when some runners just refuse to slow down saying they've tried it and it didn't work for them. They also think they have "freakishly high heart rates"...unfortunately, I think they miss out on amazing benefits.
Can you expand on the new diet? I'm 3 months in and seeing small improvements - i'll still eat far too much chocolate and other rubbish so my next step would be to cut that rubbish out.
I work in a warehouse and started jogging all day long a couple years ago. On top of that I would run hard two or three times a week. I started running better in these 25k trail runs. I think it works, but just lucked out with this slower running at work. Would never have done it with out work.
Thank you so much for your inspiring podcasts and information. I ran 4:01 (a.d 1:28 half...lol) 10 years ago when I was into running for 6 months. I am looking to make this a part of my life for the long term. I am getting back into it again at the regular (60-70k week) Age 34 now. I was wondering ... maybe the low pace is good at some layer stage? At the moment it seems motivation is key and body subjectively feels good and that mental meditative zone seems about 160-170bpm. For instance maintained here about 1.5 hrs yesterday. When I go down to 130-147 (my zone 2) my form seems a bit horrible, my mind starts thinking. Is it possible that everyone right at the beginning just has to go through this phase of pushing it in order to get their motivation and inspiration and form right and then later comes back to the MAF? Or is this a recipe for injury?
Great information, I'm very new to running and just started MAF training around a month ago and I'm really loving the aspects of it. No crazy changes but I started at about a 13+ minute per mile to about a 12 minute per mile currently. Also I'm able to recover faster which enables me to put in more miles per week. Went from 6 to 10 miles per week to 20 or so per week. I started with a significant amount of pain in my legs, joints and tendons. That has since dissipated. Still learning and growing everyday, currently reading one of Phil Maffetones' books.
Educationjack if you are new to running, patience is key 👍🏼
Well done, sounds like you're making many smart moves and your body is responding well. Lots of great insights in Phil Maffetone's book. All the best on your journey
100% patience is key
I personally gravitated towards MAF because it justified the kind of training I enjoy doing. I’ve been a casual runner all my life but have gone through “serious” phases at various times. Ten years ago was one of those phases and I raced a lot, joined a local running club and did lots of interval workouts at the local track. I blame all that speedwork for the chronic injuries I developed at the end of that season which caused be to disavow running for many years.
Although I wasn’t running much, I remained athletic by playing lots of pickup sports, biking to work, and hiking a lot in the mountains. Which is probably why when I picked up running seriously last year I found it pretty easy to maintain a decent pace at a pretty low heart rate. I never had to swallow my pride and walk in order to stay below my target heart rate. The low intensity allows me to put in a ton of miles without ruining my body. I just completed an 80 mile week and feel great.
Wow nice, 80 miles is solid!! Glad you found something that's working well and feels great for you. Keep it up!
Hi Floris, I love your videos - they are so inspirational. I am really sturggling with MAF training. I cannot run at all in my aerobic zone, I start jogging very very slowly and my heart rate spikes up higher than I am supposed to be running at. When I walk it goes right down, so I am jogging walking jogging. Will this improve as my fitness improves? It is really upsetting.
Marion McCabe I hope Floris answers your question but walk running is a good way to build up mileage and improve your fitness. The goal is to get miles under your belt, injury free so take it slow. But sprinkling in some faster efforts will likely be beneficial...be careful though too much leads to injury
Must try tomorrow,thank you,& I'm 73 yrs old is that ok?
It is interesting you mentioned cossfit with maf because that's exactly what I'm doing. I am a competitive master's CrossFit athlete, and this training is appealing to me because it seems to limit additional training stress beyond my normal CrossFit training. I had also read in the book that anaerobic efforts interfered with aerobic development. This is a totally new idea to me. People develop very high performance and vo2 max with anaerobic centric training. How do I reconcile these two ideas? Is it a question of recovery capacity? Thank you.
Thank you Floris! I stumbled across your videos around October last year (2019) and it's been an absolute revolation. Like many, when I first started MAF training, in order to stay below my MAF heart rate, I had to slow my pace significantly. However in just 2-3 months I can already run over 2min/mile faster whilst staying in my MAF zone. The benifits of this method of training for me have been amazing -
1) I LOVE running again. Even in the wind/rain/dark we have in England at the moment!
2) I feel the best I have for a long time - happier, stronger and more energetic (previously, I'd feel wiped out after a run, and not want to do anything)
3) I raced the other week, and hit similar time to my "pre-MAF" days, but felt significantly more comfortable, the whole race was more enjoyable and didn't feel like I was going to collapse at the end.
4) My appetite is more stable. I used to be ravenous after a run - but now I'm not. Also, I've noticed generally throughout the day - I don't experience the same hunger pangues I used to.
5) I am less sweaty after runs. (This is great as I have sensitive skin - I used to get really itchy if I was unable to shower imediately after a run - not an issue any more. Also, I used to have to wash my kit after every run, but now I can wear the same T-shirt a couple of times without it getting sweaty or smelly) So a bonus for the environment too!
I've always been an average runner. (I'm female, mid 30s, BMI ~22; PB's: ~26min 5k; ~56min 10k; ~2:20 HM; ~4:30 M) and have been told I'm far from reaching my potential - however previously, when I trained harder to try to race faster, I wound up either getting burnt out or not enjoying it any more. This new (to me!) approach has changed that. I know it's only early days, but I feel very excited!
You talk a lot about building endurance - especially during the first phase. I think this is very important. However, in addition to poor endurance, I think another major factor that has been slowing me down is poor technique. (E.g. poor posture, low cadence, and over-striding). So for me, I think going to track (with trained coaches on hand to advise on techique and drills) has really helped. So whilst I agree, for many people, initially spending 2-3months of strictly staying at or below MAF heartrate is likely very beneficial. For me, I think occasional short, fast sessions drilling good technique, has been incredibly benefical. As you say - everyone's different, and it's about listening to your body, and figuring out what works for you.
I'm so excited to see where this method takes me. Thank you so much for sharing your experience and knowledge with us.
Very well said L, glad you've found what is working for you, with the short, fast sessions drilling good technique. All the best on your running journey!
Thank you floris!!! Honestly speaking every time I watch your videos. I learned a lot!!! I’ve been using this maf method I would say November of 2019 and I can see already a huge improvement. Loading At least 40miles a week and still have energy left on my tank. I’m really excited every time I run. No injuries no discomfort. The only concern now is my heart rate spike up really fast after 3-4miles of my run. Any tips please. Thank you so much. Godbless
Happy to hear that Luigi, glad you're seeing huge improvements. Not sure what Heart rate monitor you use, I suggest using chest strap over wrist based optical. Proper warm up and cool down is important. If it spikes up real fast, slow down. Cardiac drift can happen and your fitness level takes time to improve over time with consistency. All the best with your training!
Floris Gierman thank you so much! Been using polar h10 chest strap.
@@luigia9173 excellent!
Very clear explanation and thanks for it, however i still have 1 question: during the 1st phase of building up aerobic if i add 1 high intensity run like tempo or interval so is it good to do like this?
Thanks a lot
13 min miles lol,but I did not feel tired at end ,it’s a good way of getting miles on the clock ,enjoying the run ,still happy 52 and looking at it as a good paced walk
I am 36. Started endurance training 4 years ago. Have done 5 Ironman and about 20 half and shorter distance Tris plus 3 additional marathons.
Dabbled with Maffetone last winter at around 45 miles a week.
This winter after taking two months off in the fall my fitness fell so much that maffetone pace was around 9:30/mile.
For 10 weeks now I have been running 70 mile weeks (with a couple 50 mile recovery weeks) just about all done at maffetone.
Pace is down to around 7:45/mile which is what it got to last year at 45/week.
Last month I seem to have regressed a little but was sick for close to three weeks and had a baby a month ago.
I feel good now but maffetone pace is closer to 7:55.
I have three weeks left until my marathon and I had planned on a two week taper but I going to do three weeks because my body just seems compromised and maybe slightly overtrained and tired.
Hoping to gain a massive amount of performance gains in next three weeks of taper to have any chance at a 3 hour marathon which is my stretch goal.
Running at slower pace has really allowed me to up my miles and not get the niggles I would normally get.
I am bummed and a little discouraged that I have really stagnated over the past month, but overall have come a long way.
Btw my wife is from Utrecht:)
Dustin Maher I admire your persistence 👍🏼
Congrats on your baby a month ago, that's a life changer right there. Well done on your races and aerobic progress. I think many athletes don't realize how taking 2 months off will really set back your MAF pace. Even working out 2 to 3 times a week can help maintain fitness levels a lot higher, vs taking fully off. Plus 3 weeks being sick, and lack of sleep with baby can all surely have a big impact on your performance.
Think the long game, progress will happen over time with consistency and patience. As much as sub 3 is a stretch goal in 3 weeks, don't sweat it if that doesn't happen, always next time, next cycle. All the best and tell your wife from me: "Gefeliciteerd met jullie kleine!!"
I watched a few running channels bashing MAF or provided half truth about MAF. Thanks for busting those misconceptions.
I really enjoy running with low intensity/heart rate based on MAF. No more injuries due to pushing for faster pace. No longer needed music while running, coz I listening to my body more. Getting the benefit of fat adapted. I don’t look at my watch for how long(time and distances) I’ve ran during a running session anymore, i can just keep running if I wanted. Running is like meditation, tai chi, zen, relaxation.
Most of all I look forward for my next run the next day.
Very well said Brian, glad to hear all of the positive changes in your running and life. Keep at it!
this way of running is so much better for the heart and aging of the heart so im all for it on most of my run and riding....and most faster runners i follow get injured doing lots of speed work and overtraining/ i have no injuries for years and have 10,000 miles in biking and 2000 plus running
Coffee... don´t drink it, before your exercise in low HR-Zones.
Enjoy your coffee after your training. ;)
Not disagreeing at all but putting speed aside, do u know of any scientific evidence that running at a MAF HR of say 140 (for a 40yr old) without coffee is any better for building ur aerobic base than running at 140 with coffee?
You are right! 😊
I started the MAF method 3 days ago and i am expecting to decrease my heart rate to improve my fitness. I am able to run a mountain half marathon with 1100+ vertical gain in less than 2 hours but as the season goes on, my fitness level starts to decrease until a I feel so tired that I have to take a break. I am 27 years old, so I think it´s a best moment to try out this method.
Surely good to continue to listen to your body and allow time for rest and recovery as well. All the best with your training!
Hi Floris, watched the vedio , beautifully explained various aspects of MAF training method.
I want to add something here which I have experianced after practicing it.
I ran my PB in 10K in a half marathon race which also was my best. In fact I had a series of PBs in that half marathon from 10K to Half Marathon.
The point I want to make is maximum anerobic sustainability increases by running with in aerobic equlibrium for longer duration. Length of time required to reach aerobic equilibrium varies for each individual.
My PB in 10K was 54:00 previously. I was stunned to see it has been lowered to 52:49 in a half marathon recently.
I was more energetic after that HM, where as I was fully exhausted in 10K run.
What does that mean? yes it is the anerobic sustainability which everyone is looking to improve for better performance comes only after attaining aerobic equlibrium.
What I understand by practicing MAF , it gives a concept, a starting point from where one can develop their own style by continously listening to body.
INJURY PREVENTION OR ZERO INJURY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT BENIFIT OF PRACTICING maf.
PRADEEPKUMAR MENON great improvements 👍🏼
Indeed, great improvements!
With all my races canceled for the first half of the year, I figure this is the perfect time to do a couple of months of dedicated MAF base-building. I’ve always believed in the benefits, but found it hard to truly dedicate the time for the base-building phase.
Great timing for that indeed. Enjoy the process Charles!
That's exactly what I'm doing. I was following my club sessions at the start but can't see the point currently so I'm doing maff until there's another race on the horizon
Hi Floris!
I’m wondering if you go out for a run at a heart rate of 160 at given pace, should you slow down your pace according to your heart rate when it elevates? In other words, my heart rate at a given pace isn’t the same further in to the run as to the begining, should I then slow down my pace for every kilometer? I used to increase every kilometer as I get warm. Thanks and keep up the great work!
Great video Floris! To answer your question in the video, I have had great success with MAF training. I progressed from about a 11m/m to about currently a 7:55m/m. I am very glad I took the months to do this training, as It greatly improved my distance running capability.
Incredible improvements Jordan, nice work. Keep it up!
man yes, I'm loving running more than ever. at the end of every run, im like lets go again! haha. and im sleeping better and dropping fat. i dont even pay attention to pace anymore. i keep my garmin on the HR screen during the run and thats all i see. except when it beeps each mile! then i peek teehee. I took Dr Phil's advice on ditching the head phones while running too. now i leave my phone at home, ears open, and its just me, my breath and my day dreams... and my garmin haha. just press start and enjoy the moments. thankful for this method.
Always great to see you, as a a 45 year old beginner i am trying the maf, my problem is that to have a correct running form (I am still working on that :) ) i always go over the MAF HR advised for me, of course i try to keep it low as possible. I usually do 20K a week on three runs and the 4th week is a rest week. Should I just jog until my fitness gets better with the draw back of not correctly running?
few different approaches here, even with consistent slow jogging, aerobically you should start seeing improvements and your body becomes stronger. Alternatively, you could take walk breaks to let HR go down more, then run a bit faster with a form that you feel is more natural, then walk once HR goes up. Also, walk up a hill, run a bit faster down. Few examples.
@@FlorisGierman will try, thank you
Nice pts! Just started to make a more concentrated effort on low hr training. Didn't realize that the hr I was training at in my easy runs was too high. I do have a high max heart rate..190 for a 44year old female. I've been runni g for awhile at with easy runs in the high 140's but had little niggles/ tired after runs... would like tto see my recovery better. I want too see less inflammation in my body so now(first week..) 130-140... and today I'll try low 140s for my long run. 3 months of base building too reset the body then add 2 months of some intensity to pr for a10k. Thanks for all the tips. So far I'm already having more energy and less inflammation.
Glad to hear that, keep it up!
@@FlorisGierman did my second maf test...nice progress I think. First maf test hot and humid, but averaged high 12's per mile... second maf test ave 10:58 So excited. Decided to stick with this till maf test drops to the 8's per mile I think. So nice on the body and once the ligaments have had time to adjust more I'll add more time on feet( now I ave around 8hrs per week). Thanks. Love the podcasts. I've watched all of them, sometimes twice.
Hi Floris!
I’m about 10 weeks into my MAF training experiment. I also had the initial slip in training.
First couple of weeks were around 9:15mile pace then went down to about 10. Then last night I did 7miles at an average of 8:50!
Looking forward to see how far I go with this, I’ve always struggled with injury with the more conventional training method. But feel great with MAF training and my legs feel stronger than ever!
So glad I stumbled across your TH-cam channel! Thanks for all the awesome content :)
I believe that Arthur Lydiards original phase training was
12 weeks or more of Aerobic training. For his racers, the goal was for them to run 100 miles a week. Also, there was a weekend day run of 22 miles. He had said to run comfortably. At the end of your aerobic run ask yourself if you could have run extra miles. If yes, then that was perfect. Sir Peter Snell said to run these, “Chatty, with companions”
4 weeks of hill training. 2 to 3 times a week. The other days run chatty, like recovery days, between high intensity intervals, and long aerobic runs. Snell would say run longish chatty recovery runs to avoid injuries. Lydiard would say never run at 100%. He would suggest to run the anaerobic runs at 90% or less effort.
Then 4 weeks of Anaerobic training. Again 2 to 3 of these workouts a week. Along with the “chatty” runs, as per Peter Snell. Include a longer run on the weekends.
4 weeks of Integration (hill & anaerobic)
4 weeks of specific race anaerobic runs (800 meters, 5K, 10K, marathons etc. etc.)
2 weeks of taper. Taper in volume, not intensity.
Race day!
I’ll start my Lydiard training, hopefully in a week from this Sunday. I’m shooting for the 2023 Houston Marathon.
See you on STRAVA.
I was stressed and frustrated with this at first. Not only would I complain about having to walk at times, I would literally cuss at the sky. So I would only use maf training a couple of days a week. Then I got hurt from overtraining (running 3 runs way above maf and squating/deadlifting heavy. So injury forced me to take MAF more seriously.
But now I’m having more fun and getting faster at a safer speed. I recently almost qualified for Boston (missed by 2 minutes). Looking forward to seeing what MAF training will do for the LA Marathon. Im putting in 50-70 miles a week. I also plan on running a sub 3!
Sometimes injuries is what it takes to have to look at other training approaches more seriously. All the best on your training and racing journey Fredrick!
@@FlorisGierman Exactly! Really love your podcasts. Keep up the great work. Who knows, maybe I will be a guest one day sharing my journey from prison (I did 8 years on a drug charge) to qualifying for Boston to running a Sub 3!
First MAF run today, well, more walking than running! This will be a challenge
Take it 1 day at the time, things will get easier and you'll be running more and walking less. All the best
Hi, I just got into running for around 4 months. At first, I’m doing the Galloway run/walk/run program. Early this year I stumble upon the MAF method. While doing the Galloway program, one of the main things is cadence drill so I always trained my cadence around 180 - 190. When starting MAF, I couldn’t run even for a minute with that range of cadence. So should I lower my cadence or should I just do run/walk/run with higher cadence to control my heart rate? I read that a higher cadence could avoid some injuries. I also read that you said about an 8-second sprint, would it give the same effect on MAF training compared to a really slow jog all the way through? Or does it didn’t matter whatever i do as long as i do it below my MAF heart rate?
Well done - good explanation.Maffetone is a genius and offers great opportunities for health and fitness. Glad you explained the limitations of the MAF formula. I think the "cult" label was levelled at many because of the unwillingness of many Mafites to discuss and debate from a scientific perspective and entertain people with a contrary view. For example my frustration was the insistence that training at a heart rate of 120 when i have an aerobic threshold of 136 is the optimum thing to do. Now to be fair - i accept it wont do me any harm; in fact a lot of good. But as Lydiard said you need an awfull lot of time to get the aerobic adaptions. But thanks for this - long over due !
Craig T Smith indeed it does take a lot of time. Sad how some are not prepared to see other sides of a debate.
Hi Craig, I appreciate your comments here and in the past, these haven't gone unheard. Everytime I started typing a reply, one of my kids would interrupt me or something else came up, and I realized I never ended up responding. Also the deeper dive on this topic was indeed overdue.
Well said about your personal example. Those variations can indeed make a difference in optimal aerobic training HR. Yes indeed, even below it can still have several great benefits and the aerobic adaptations surely can take a while.
Have fun out there on your runs!
@@FlorisGierman Thank you so much for taking the time to reply Floris. I think you are in a great position to become an independent and objective thought leader who could fill a vacuum by facilitating a "scientific forum" to support the MAF approach and explore different roads for getting the same results. And i think presenting different views would be healthy. I would refer you to two kindred spirits and world class coaches Steve House and Scott Johnstone. They are big MAF fans. They also discuss a topic that has bothered me for a long time but never seen any formal investigation into. They have their athletes training MAF untill they get their Aerobic Threshold (tested ) within 5% of their Anerobic threshold. Now he had an elite athlete with a VO2 max of 90 - higher than lance armstrong. But he had what they call Aerobic Deficiency syndrome - his Aerobic Threshold pace was 5 min 16 mins per km running and his heart rate was 135 at AET pace (they calculate Aet) he managed to move his AET from 135 to 158! (this was my concern about MAF) and his MAF pace dropped to 3 mins 53 per km. As a result of the aerobic adaptions made running exclusively below AET (NB they kept testing)he was selected for 2014 Olympic Team. You should get these guys on your channel - they are big Aerobic fans even for Alpine Climbing elites. This is a level of MAF interpretaion beyond the basic formula that i have never seen before - and i hadnt heard of aerobic deficiency syndrome. (And i am sure Maffetone would have observed similar in his practice) - but this is the first case study I have seems to corroborate my own hunch that my Aerobic threshold was quite a bit higher than the 180 - age. The book with the case is Training For The Uphill Athlete Hose/ Johnston and Jornet Page 47.
Happy running and coaching my friend - keep Phil Maffetones great work alive!
Great points 🙂
Thanks!!
Been building a base for 6 months now. Went from under 15 mile a week to at least 40 miles, and even did 70 one week (walked quite a bit that week)--following my maximal heart rate x .55-69 (bpm). I am 62 and had not been running for almost 10 years. Amazing how the mind can rationalize not running. I swam and biked to my benefit, but to not run translated into a stunted ability. So now I run, and can actually sing while running lol. I am lucky, as I have access to cross country and even very soft forest grounds (BC rain forests, with deep layers of biomass to run on!). I am a muscular body type with a BMI of 28, so jogging and running to build aerobic fitness can be done by "big" persons.
Mike Burnside singing whilst running is my thing also.... maybe as I be 60 next year? 🎶
Love it, I want to run with you and Run Guru Run and we'll have a singing run party together! 🥳🎶
@@FlorisGierman can't beat singing whilst running!
Great info, thanks! Ive been base building now for several months. Im 50 yrs old and have my sights on my first 50 mile race this November. My dilema/question has to do with mileage and MAF. I am running consistent 50 mile weeks and can maintain MAF (130bpm) at a SLOW pace up to about 12 miles. On my longer training runs (20+), is it recommended to implement walk/run for the remaining (8+) miles to continue to build a stronger base? Is it possible to build on MAF base by floating into higher zones for the last hour of a long run, or would I be doing more harm than good? I think I know the answer, but shutter to think of walking for 8+ miles!