Really nice that you ran these numbers dude, now I feel like I can decide confidently whether or not I'm supposed to suffer through a rough lane. I always wondered but I was too lazy to work it out. Thanks!
How does taking the enemy safe lane T1 create a home for your carry to farm? (5:57) Is he supposed to then go offlane while the rest of the crew tries to get the enemyofflane T1 or what's the logic?
Lets flip it. Say you are the offlaner or pos4, and your carry and pos5 is being pressured by 3 heroes, what would you do? At least as the pos4 is to TP there, right? If they are diving the tier 1, maybe both you and the offlaner will TP. What does that mean for the enemy pos1? It is a 1v1 with the offlaner or even an empty lane. Which is exactly what the enemy 1 wants. So flip it again and you be the one as the pos5, leave your 1 and go pressure the enemy 1 to buy your own 1 some space
@@realJosephChan Good explanation as to why you want to go take the enemy offlane T1. But I thought in the video he meant "once you took the enemy offlane T1, you create room for your pos1" and your explanation is more like 'go take your enemy offlane T1 so you create fuss there and your pos 1 is alone and farms".
When the enemy safelane tower falls, you usually want your carry to go to that section of the map. It's a bit hard to explain through a comment without seeing the map, but it has to do with the relative safety of that area (especially with a ward or two). The enemy doesn't really want to be in that part of the map because the offlane tower is not worth very much. However, should the carry get chased out, they can fall back to their offlane jungle (the triangle) which is typically one of the safest parts of the map for your team. And as you can see in this video, the offlane jungle is still worth quite a lot!
Hey Zquixotix, i love this video so much, i keep rewatching to remind/check on the gold values of creeps. I play carry and this helped me alot deciding when to head to the jungle. Btw man, if i don't type your name exactly on youtube search i can't find your channel.. Just a suggestion (no offense) but Speeed uses Jenkins for his channel name and its easier to find. Anyway, loved that i found your channel cheers
16 minutes in to the ‘lane’ after my carry is now chain feeding in the lane - I suggest him leaving the lane and he flames the team for not supporting him ‘sigh’
Hey something I've come to realize as a support player who still plays too sacrafical I never know when being more greedy what net worth I should aim for or what item timing to aim for
How about chen and enchantress that can do camps pretty well as a pos 5, when should they take the jungle to be sure their carry didn't need that xp/gold
Chen and Enchantress tend to take creeps a bit earlier when the carry is usually still playing the lane. Chen really needs creeps to be able to do his thing, so it's okay for him to take creeps even if they're near the carry. Ideally though, you take neutrals from farther away since the carry can't farm everything. This way, the carry gets to farm effectively, but Chen/Enchantress still get the creeps they need. Another idea is that if you can do so safely, you can take creeps from the enemy jungle, simultaneously getting the creeps you need and stealing farm from the enemy!
@@ZQuixotix thanks I will try stealing enemy camps if possible, its a real struggle when enemy does everything they can to mess up my pulls/stacks and holy persuasion. Maybe offtopic but do you know any chen speciffic strats for lane equilibrium, i am a bit too dumb to think about stuff like that and maintain my tempo.
In high level games yes but not just the offlaner, they will usually rotate all heroes there so it's essentially a trade. In lower brackets you will get away with it, the only problem is when your carry doesn't know efficient farming pattern and doesn't go to the offlane (his new home) and stay to defend his tower and die.
what to do when you have to solo as a carry vs 2 offlane and softsupport bcs your hard supp left the lane bcs he died one time diving enemy under tower. This is my every game story
Mmmm well that's going to be tough. If lane equilibrium is near your own tower, you should be okay 2v1. If it's by their tower, try to do your own pull. If you can't pull, then try to just safely get XP (run around in the side trees and such). It's not optimal of course, but you're just trying to get some levels til you can jungle decently. That'll be the same idea as in this video, when you can sort of do 2-3 camps a minute. If it happens to you frequently, try to play carries that can either 1v2 or jungle quickly.
Carries with escapes can frequently survive a lane 1v2, so for example Faceless Void, Weaver, Juggernaut, Lifestealer, and Phantom Lancer. Carries who can jungle quickly could include Naga Siren, Terrorblade, PL, Luna, Sven, and Wraith King. Unconventional carries that can 1v2 could be Legion Commander, Venomancer, Nature's Prophet, Timbersaw, Axe, Bristleback, and Lone Druid.
Not if I grief them by blocking camps. I get triggered just by the fact that they are not a high level smurf. Because the opposite team obviously do. That's how I got down to Guardian. 🤣
![1 Orc vs 7 Computers [4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/7BWNchvzG1Y/mqdefault.jpg)
If you've got more questions about when to leave the lane, come drop by my Twitch stream and ask! www.twitch.tv/zquixotix
This guy deserves many subs..
He's the only content creator I know who will explain things to you both strategically and mathematically.
The level of depth and analysis put by ZQ is unmatched!
Very in depth content love it. Came from reddit, stayed/subscribed on youtube!
Thank you for your support!
Really nice that you ran these numbers dude, now I feel like I can decide confidently whether or not I'm supposed to suffer through a rough lane. I always wondered but I was too lazy to work it out. Thanks!
How does taking the enemy safe lane T1 create a home for your carry to farm? (5:57) Is he supposed to then go offlane while the rest of the crew tries to get the enemyofflane T1 or what's the logic?
Lets flip it. Say you are the offlaner or pos4, and your carry and pos5 is being pressured by 3 heroes, what would you do?
At least as the pos4 is to TP there, right? If they are diving the tier 1, maybe both you and the offlaner will TP.
What does that mean for the enemy pos1? It is a 1v1 with the offlaner or even an empty lane.
Which is exactly what the enemy 1 wants.
So flip it again and you be the one as the pos5, leave your 1 and go pressure the enemy 1 to buy your own 1 some space
@@realJosephChan Good explanation as to why you want to go take the enemy offlane T1. But I thought in the video he meant "once you took the enemy offlane T1, you create room for your pos1" and your explanation is more like 'go take your enemy offlane T1 so you create fuss there and your pos 1 is alone and farms".
When the enemy safelane tower falls, you usually want your carry to go to that section of the map. It's a bit hard to explain through a comment without seeing the map, but it has to do with the relative safety of that area (especially with a ward or two). The enemy doesn't really want to be in that part of the map because the offlane tower is not worth very much. However, should the carry get chased out, they can fall back to their offlane jungle (the triangle) which is typically one of the safest parts of the map for your team. And as you can see in this video, the offlane jungle is still worth quite a lot!
@@ZQuixotix Thanks for explanation
Love your vids, they're very helpful!
Thank you!
such a great video. hope ur channel gets the attention it deserves :D
Hey Zquixotix, i love this video so much, i keep rewatching to remind/check on the gold values of creeps. I play carry and this helped me alot deciding when to head to the jungle. Btw man, if i don't type your name exactly on youtube search i can't find your channel.. Just a suggestion (no offense) but Speeed uses Jenkins for his channel name and its easier to find. Anyway, loved that i found your channel cheers
Zach sharing some INT with the supports!
Awesome video; super useful!
Another great video from ProfessorZQ
i feel like this is aimed at me after our session hahaha
Haha partly! It actually came up in all my coaching sessions recently, which made me realize it's definitely an issue for a lot of players
Nice video, my issue is the opposite, leaving the lane too early to trilane, stack, ward or go mid lol
you are a great guy. Love your content
Great stuff man
16 minutes in to the ‘lane’ after my carry is now chain feeding in the lane - I suggest him leaving the lane and he flames the team for not supporting him ‘sigh’
Hey something I've come to realize as a support player who still plays too sacrafical I never know when being more greedy what net worth I should aim for or what item timing to aim for
Warding guide?
How about chen and enchantress that can do camps pretty well as a pos 5, when should they take the jungle to be sure their carry didn't need that xp/gold
Chen and Enchantress tend to take creeps a bit earlier when the carry is usually still playing the lane. Chen really needs creeps to be able to do his thing, so it's okay for him to take creeps even if they're near the carry. Ideally though, you take neutrals from farther away since the carry can't farm everything. This way, the carry gets to farm effectively, but Chen/Enchantress still get the creeps they need. Another idea is that if you can do so safely, you can take creeps from the enemy jungle, simultaneously getting the creeps you need and stealing farm from the enemy!
@@ZQuixotix thanks I will try stealing enemy camps if possible, its a real struggle when enemy does everything they can to mess up my pulls/stacks and holy persuasion. Maybe offtopic but do you know any chen speciffic strats for lane equilibrium, i am a bit too dumb to think about stuff like that and maintain my tempo.
Dota noob here - won‘t the enemy offlaner just take the tower if my hard carry farms jungle & support goes to our offlane?
In high level games yes but not just the offlaner, they will usually rotate all heroes there so it's essentially a trade. In lower brackets you will get away with it, the only problem is when your carry doesn't know efficient farming pattern and doesn't go to the offlane (his new home) and stay to defend his tower and die.
this is very cool bro
its hard to do in lower tier, lower tier your offlane and mid just afk farm. u got shit on your lane, the only option is to go jungle haha
Thank youuu
when your PA buys claymore and broadsword first lmfao., bruh how can you jungle with that shit
what to do when you have to solo as a carry vs 2 offlane and softsupport bcs your hard supp left the lane bcs he died one time diving enemy under tower. This is my every game story
Mmmm well that's going to be tough. If lane equilibrium is near your own tower, you should be okay 2v1. If it's by their tower, try to do your own pull. If you can't pull, then try to just safely get XP (run around in the side trees and such). It's not optimal of course, but you're just trying to get some levels til you can jungle decently. That'll be the same idea as in this video, when you can sort of do 2-3 camps a minute.
If it happens to you frequently, try to play carries that can either 1v2 or jungle quickly.
@@ZQuixotix i cant see any carry who can 1 v 2 vs axe lina or sk dazzle or necro shaman if i go jungle they will just take tower and invade our jungle
Carries with escapes can frequently survive a lane 1v2, so for example Faceless Void, Weaver, Juggernaut, Lifestealer, and Phantom Lancer.
Carries who can jungle quickly could include Naga Siren, Terrorblade, PL, Luna, Sven, and Wraith King.
Unconventional carries that can 1v2 could be Legion Commander, Venomancer, Nature's Prophet, Timbersaw, Axe, Bristleback, and Lone Druid.
Not if I grief them by blocking camps. I get triggered just by the fact that they are not a high level smurf. Because the opposite team obviously do. That's how I got down to Guardian. 🤣
lul