What The Writing Community Doesn't Understand About Writing Craft
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
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Learning about writing techniques is a good way to avoid working on your writing project while convincing yourself that you're not actually procrastinating. I think that's part of what's going on.
As a New writer should i not know about writing theory or technics? I mean i cannot just write right?i have to learn HOW. Writing is an Art ,a study isn't it?
@@ryotanu I'm not in any way suggesting that you shouldn't learn about writing techniques in general.
@@cavalrycome ok i understand
Also, I think OP was alluding to writers who procrastinate on completing their project by focusing on writing techniques (i.e. reading other books and blogs etc) instead of just finishing the story and exploring or implementing new things in the subsequent rewrite drafts.
You’re right- writing is a craft that can only be done by doing, but I think it’s also not productive to waste hours (or years) perfecting a sentence if the goal is to complete a novel or screenplay or whatever.
I completely relate to that. The HARDEST thing is forcing yourself to actually finish the first draft. Learning about craft, story structure, scene structure, characterization, the editing process, etc., can give one (me) a false sense of "overall understanding" and "preparation" when approaching, or re-approaching, the first draft. But we fall into the hole, the endless loop, where learning is never enough; there's always one more video you could watch, one more blog post to read, one more "book about writing" to inhale that will "equip" you that much better. But most of the learning and growth happens through the actual writing. There's a reason it's so much easier to learn tools than to use them. It's one thing to learn how to use a hammer; it's another to start using the hammer on the nails when the nails are your personal story ideas.
Shaelin is our favorite writing dad, thank you for adopting us all.
i am so proud of my many children !!
@@ShaelinWrites lol
@@ShaelinWrites #IBelieveInShaelinBishop
......and now i'm gonna go sit in the corner and think about what i've done, for that VERY, INCREDIBLY DARK JOKE.
I guess Im pretty off topic but do anybody know a good site to watch newly released series online ?
@Derrick Johnny try FlixZone. You can find it on google :)
To aid your artist analogy: if you're an artist and you don't know how to draw a cat, you go and look for reference, you study it, deconstruct it, internalize it, do a bunch of sketches and then go back to your piece and draw the cat. You don't go to your mentor and say "so, walk me through how to draw a cat."
Writing and drawing are so similar but for some reason people don't see it that way. You have to sketch and practice to problem-solve. Same with writing, you're just sketching with words. Chuck Jones: “Every artist has thousands of bad drawings in them and the only way to get rid of them is to draw them out.” Same with words. You have to write those thousands of crappy words before you arrive to the good stuff.
Thanks for making my analogy make more sense wth your actual artist skills :D
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I was going to add paint-by-numbers to the analogy. If you don't want to develop your painting skills, but you really want to "paint a cat," you can go to your local craft store and buy a paint-by-numbers kit to show you exactly where to put each spot of color in order to come out with a painted cat. It's a _completely_ different process that getting an original painting in your head out onto the paper, but it might feel satisfying at the time. I think some people crave even that kind of creation - I mean, the kits do sell.
For better or worse, there is no such thing as write-by-numbers. It's gotta be all you from the start!
The truth is art is chaos. Every possible case is different and there is no known way to solve it. Just do the thing.
U right
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I think what has created this constant indecisiveness and need for an answer are people who have a following who claim to know it all, have the answers, or that this is the only way to write. That then creates the idea that there IS an answer to everything, when there isn't. I used to be this way, partly because of those know-it-all blogs and because I was afraid of not having the answers and having to figure it out on my own. I thought that if somebody else chose for me or told me what to do, my writing would be better because it'd appeal to more people. It would be what everybody wants. That somebody out there must know more than me and I NEED to do what those who know more tell me to do because they know better. But I think that causes for more issues, especially with the piece you're writing. You can get lost in a rabbit hole of thinking you never know enough to begin writing your project, when writing isn't that complicated. There's a lot of trust that you have to place on yourself as a writer and not everybody has the self confidence or lack of fear to know they can solve any problem or figure it out themselves. I think the only advice a writer needs is to read, write, evaluate what you read and write, know how to filter criticism and apply it, and trust in yourself and the proccess. Thank you for this video! This definitely needed to be said 💓
So well said, this is a great comment + so true!
I agree!! The same thing happened to me and Im now working myself out of this overthinking.
In my experience, creative writing classes had that effect, at least the ones I took post high school. It was good for some tips but often times it ended up feeling like there was only one way to write a story and my method wasn't it. After dropping it, I found myself able to write whatever it is exactly as I intended with good results and helpful feedback. Sometimes, you just gotta wing it albeit in a calculated manner.
Spot on. I was going to comment the same thing before I saw this. I've found it especially prevalent in writing magazines. My mother used to buy them for me (bless her), but I didn't have the heart to tell her that I would largely disregard most all of the articles. They're a great tool, but I'll always hark back to the old adage of only knowing the 'rules' in order to break them. Plus, who likes being told what to do? gimps shouldn't write :P
A quote that has always stuck with me was from Jack Kerouac: "One day I will find the right words, and they will be simple."
I don't know if Shaelin will see this but excellent video as always. Confidence is key, and comes only by making enough mistakes that you find the most elegant way that suits yourself.
@@dannylam4180 So spot on
*Duckling is anxious* Shaelin hugs ducking protectively
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"Writing Ducklings" may be my favorite Shaelin phrase.
@Meek Peace My inner grammar nazi is screaming that "-ling" is not a gerund
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Hey, Shaelin. Thanks for this video, it really pointed out a problem that I think the entire internet age is suffering from, myself included. That being said, I'd just like to add something: you can use tools that are perhaps not the best to achieve a fairly good result. In my actual life, I've used blush as eyeshadow, brown eyeliner as an eyebrow filler and a screwdriver as a chisel to get rid of decaying wood. You don't need to have the best tools to get a good result. As long as it gets you what you want, use the tools you have. *Gets off soapbox* Thanks again for the video, you're great, bye.
I love this addition!!
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I agree completely. Honestly it is a side effect of Internet culture and certain trends The Youth (she says, with a disclaimer of Not All Youths). I've noticed it on Reddit going back YEARS--a whole crop of young folks (all the way up to, well, my age... so not so young anymore) who just... are incapable of fielding their own research. Incapable! I don't know where we failed two wholee generations but we have. I will answer questions on college forums for example where LITERALLY all I do is Google it and pull up the school website. Here, let me Google that for you. It's the same with writing. I will post a whole-ass video on a topic and then get an entire comment from someone wanting an ultra specific answer to their specific situation even though all the answers are in the video. I will be frank but respectful: in these cases, writers like that who cannot help themselves are not the writers you can help. I see my knowledge/advice as being for that specific writer who is seeking information and is willing/able/wanting to extrapolate from it. If I help even ONE self-starting writer with a tiny bit of info, I feel really good. But it's just not possible to help everyone--I don't have the bandwidth to answer all those personal questions. And no one can write your book for you. Make decisions for you. That's not how writing works. I hope people will come to help themselves in their own time, but in the meantime, I don't worry about it too much. (But, yes, this is an issue in the writing community.)
Haha I should probably take a page from your book and worry about it less myself! I've had very similar experiences to you, but you're right that you can't help everyone and that's probably for the best.
@@ShaelinWrites I am old and embittered haha.
Omg I love both of y'all. Recent subscriber to both. I feel star struck through the screen. 😳 Both of your channels are incredibly helpful. Alexa, I finally stopped thinking/talking about writing. Now I'm three chapters into the first draft of my first book. Yay! 🎉😅 Shaelin, I love that you addressed the fear of writing newbie writers like me experience. It's a fear that too often discourages writers from even giving it a shot. I'm finally writing my first book thanks to both of y'all. 🌟🎉
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"I'm not a physicist"
BAHAHAHHAHAHHHH THATS LITERALLY ME WHEN MY PHYSICS TEACHER ASKS ME *ANYTHING*
ok on a more serious note, i definitely see and agree with your point... I WILL NOW DO MY PHYSICS HOMEWORK ON MY OWN 😂
to be fair physics is Hard™ and my high school physics teacher literally told me to drop out of physics 12 on the first day because "I was definitely going to hate every second of it" and he "didn't understand why I was taking this class" and "wasn't I going into fine arts?"
@@ShaelinWrites well, good thing you went into the fine arts then 😂🤣
"You're definitely going to hate every second of this" sounds like a good beginning for a novel. Or even a title.
And then what would the character arc be? From hating it to loving it, perhaps? Isn't that called...LEARNING? The whole point of taking a class?
Let's think about this a moment. Why would "hate it" (vs "love it" or "indifferent to it" etc) be the criterion for whether to take a class or not? I notice he didn't say "you're definitely not going to learn anything from this class"
Sometimes teachers are graded on how their students are graded, on the theory that if the students don't do well then it's because the teacher is a bad teacher; and for this reason they try to screen out and discourage the ones who probably won't get a high grade.
I am also reminded of C. P. Snow's essay on "The Two Cultures" (science and humanities) which in turn reminds me of Pirsig's description in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" of a non-science guy who "botches it and botches it" and finally gives up on anything technical. Your teacher may have feared that you would become that guy.
@@rodschmidt8952 I think you are reading to much into this. My high school physics teacher was a humorous guy who cared a lot about his students. He knew I was going into fine arts. I had enjoyed physics 11 a lot and gotten an A, so registered for physics 12. On the first day, he told me physics 12 was extremely difficult and *recommended only for students going into engineering* (which I was not). He said, lightly, that I would probably hate every second of it, because he knew I wasn't very good at math but really just enjoyed the concepts of physics and that even though I'd done well in physics 11, physics 12 was a whole other beast. He was probably one of the best teachers I've ever had, could explain concepts better than anyone I've ever met, but he also knew what was best for me. He definitely didn't fear that I wouldn't get a good grade therefore encourage me to drop the class. He was looking out for me, but everyone knew this man was an incredible teacher. I really don't understand why people need to read the worst into every situation where I mention a teacher, jeez. It happens everytime.
@@ShaelinWrites Great😊 that you took fine arts. I'm from India and as anyone can guess we only have 3 things after 12th; doctory, engineering or doing bsc in non med.
I want to be a writer but had to pick non med now stuck with physics, chemistry, maths. The only thing I learn writing from is your channel and by following writing pages on Instagram, hey do you have one?
15:59 You are wonderful! What you just said (a minute prior) about being raised outside of the online writing community, I can relate so much. I became a writer without all these "resources". I took it upon myself to just write and learn as I go. I am still learning as I go and I am open to continue learning as I grow. Yes, I keep up with a lot of the tips and stuff, but I was actually taught by my parents to "get my hands dirty" and think through it. So your words are genuine confirmation to all I know and continue to learn. ❤
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it;s not the 'symptoms' of the writing community. it's the symptom of the internet, and social media, really.
Great video. On the subject of craft being more a set of broad tools than specific answers: That's exactly why writers have to read. It's why that's such common advice. Want to get better at writing? Write a lot, and READ a lot. Why? Because those broad tools you're talking about, well you can see how others have used them in various ways by reading.
If it were a painting, looking at other people's paintings would be the same thing. Not that it'd be impossible to create a lovely painting, never having seen one before, but it helps to have wide and varying examples of how those tools have been used by others.
I feel like another thing is, we feel like "what if we write this thing that people hate, or people interpret to be harmful and shame us" cause I see a lot of that lately, some people are reading media in a unique way, but then shaming the author even if it was completely the opposite of what their metaphor or intended metaphor was. I'm just worried of writing something that will be deemed "problematic". Which has become an increasingly lower standard.
One thing about being part of the writing community and it's new vastness is seeing its underbelly.
We're made to feel like there is only one Right Way.
At least that is why **I** hesitate and worry.
on of me best mate asked me once, "what if i write a homophobic character? would people think am a homophobe as well?"
and me, a raging bisexual, who at that point had also planned a homophobic character, as well as written a hypocritical biphobic lesbian character, with all me infinite wisdom, of course replied, "lmao prolly. go for it then kiss a lad to pwn the readers."
@@mophead_xu hahaha thank you for the comment. Yeah I guess people are gonna think what they want, the most important thing is that you know the truth in your heart. And can prove em wrong if need be.
I'm so glad someone mentioned this.
After the initial though of "I won't be able to sell this" (that I despise, but can't help because of OCPD), the very next thing is "What will they think of me?"
It's sad that I've come to this stage, when the sole reason I got into creative writing is to say something not everyone can say or understand. Sometimes it can be bitter, but as long as it's honest, you know what you're getting.
I used to despise traditional publishing because of the amount of censorship that can come with it. I didn't want anyone touching the cover of my book, removing any words or adding new ones just because they feel it wouldn't sell. And yet, here I am now.
I won't say just knowing that others suffer from this as well helps, but it will sure be nice to get myself out and then be the one to pull the others to safety.
Good luck!
@@dismantledbrain5910 Yes! That's exactly the feeling. Both parts of it. It's really hard to deal with, but hopefully getting therapy for my whole ass anxiety will help me be able to get through all the related issues, like being petrified of what people might think of me just for writing fiction that isn't good enough or has potentially problematic tropes, etc. etc. I constantly fear sharing my opinions or feelings.
@@dismantledbrain5910 My therapist was like, "We have this assessment but your anxiety is so severe we are gonna do this slowly." 😖
I needed to hear this so badly. I've fallen down a rabbit hole of learning about the craft through books, videos, articles and I can't get out. Like you said, I will watch a video or read a book and immediately feel like I need to know more on the subject. But when I sit to write I end up staring at a blinking cursor for hours sometimes only writing a few hundred words. I have over a dozen saved files with different story ideas, each only having a tiny bit written. My fear is overwhelming. I love what you said about trying to be more independent. I really need to "just do it" haha! Love your channel, very inspiring!
Try stream of consciousness writing or automatic writing. For me, stream of consciousness works best on a laptop and automatic writing works well with a paper and pen. Both allow you to free up your creativity and let go of the notion of perfection.
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The strange thing about writing (as an art form) is that art has no clear answers, whereas most people write with the knowledge they learned from schools. Great video!
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I actually think what you're describing is a symptom of tumblr, not a symptom of the writing community. I used to have a major blog in a particular community (not writing-related) and I ended up deleting it because I'd get 14 messages a day with questions that could have and should have been googled. As you alluded, the people on tumblr are young, usually teenagers, some as young as 13/14. At this age they're still learning to develop their critical thinking skills and unfortunately high schools tend to promote the idea of "this is the one and only correct answer and you need to consult your teacher/textbook for it" rather than promoting creativity and original thought.
Kinda funny because Shaelin basically just summed up the early beginnings of my writing journey. I viewed writing tips as hard set rules that i had to follow when in reality, they're just that, a writing tip. This kind of mentality literally paralyzed me in experimenting with my own writing process and just overall hindered me on learning how to write because i was so dependent on these tips to tell me what i had to do next. Although i finally learned to not give a shit anymore and learned to just do my own thing. Kudos to Shaelin for being real and for pointing out these faults in the online writing community!
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Writing my own novel is such a wonderful and scary experience. I end up googling a lot of stuff, sometimes multiple times a day. But when it all comes together, when I can get past this one spot I was stuck at or unsure of, it feels so good. This video hit it spot on. It's okay to ask questions, but self-discovery is it's own reward. And I'll be a much better writer for it.
I’m a late bloomer boomer. I witnessed my favorite mentor evolve from a sweet, obsequious, obsessively-helpful girl, into a forceful woman. You have personally achieved creative confidence. Young struggling artists don’t understand the real nature of creativity until they find their own light. I love your videos, and your new perspective.
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Shaelin: "This is not #AuthorTubeTea"
Outro music: "L u v t e a"
Me: 🧐
All jokes aside this video is much needed and could not agree more. You learn the most on the job, so to speak, and there comes a point where you have to just do it!
Great topic to cover and concept to bring up. This applies across the board, just effing do it! You learn as you go. There is no "get rich quick" scheme in being an expert on ANYTHING. I'm always floored how low peoples work ethic is in school, the workplace, life. It brings up a systemic problem in that people are not taught how to think critically and learn for themselves in addition to their access to information. There's a balance, that leans more toward personal critical thinking that can, in turn, accurately process information. Ultimately, do everything in your power to find an answer or solution yourself and if all else fails, ask for help. Loved this and hope people truly discuss this. It's an important conversation that's concept applies to everything in life.
Edit: We're here to help each other but not to the detriment of others personal growth.
Also, fear can be used used to motivate you or paralyse you. Most of the time, you get to choose!
I have a MC who, some say, needs to learn critical thinking (he operates on a set of rules his mom has made him memorize). So that's an interesting character arc: from non-critical-thinker to critical-thinker
“How do I write experimental fiction?” Lol
Writing is about creating problems and solving them. You can ask help about better ways to spend your money, but you are the one that is getting the money and the one that will go to the store see if that sofa is really that soft or if its blue color is a good fit in your room or not.
Thanks for this nice slap in the face hahahah
This is actually something I've been struggling with personally.. you know, getting out of that mindset.
I think it has to do with everything you said, I mean I didn't grow up as a writer-writer and the first bit of writing guidance I got was from the youtube writing community and honestly every writer on here really seems to know what they're doing haha I mean even if they don't I think they have to act like they do because that's what attracts the views from aspiring writers: confidence and apparent certainty. I think it's just too easy to believe all of you have all the answers haha, so much I've found myself looking for answers for very specific things as well. I guess it's just failing to view writing as art. Art is not like physics where there's right and wrong answers and formulas that guide you with certainty towards the right answer; with art you can literally never be wrong because you can create things a million different ways.
So thank you for this video; you gave a bit more insight into a topic I've been thinking about lately.
Haha that's true, I think that feeling that everyone else knows that they're doing is also a huge contributor. I've also felt like everyone else must have it together besides me before, but then I know people feel that about me so I think the truth is that everyone is a mess :D
And this would make an interesting character arc
And this is why your channel is my favorite of any writing channel Ive found so far. Its not ALL about the tips.
basically: cant wish to be a painter without getting some paints on yer fingers.
This video literally is describing what differentiates viewers and creators in my opinion, as always a great video Shaelin!
See I’m 13 and writing my first book, but my nan has written and published two novels, so I have someone to help me.
THIS 👏🏾 IS 👏🏾 WHAT 👏🏾 I 👏🏾 NEEDED 👏🏾
This is EXACTLY my problem. This video is the single most important video I have ever seen! 😭♥️
Well, some want your attention because they look up to you. I would set up a disclaimer/rules and direct them. I know it's hard to say, "look it up yourself." That's what I had to do when this one girl would call me at 1am, as I was up, and ask me basic biology questions. I'm not an expert on biology. I was usually just getting off work at 1am and my parents are biology/life science and A&P teachers, so I know a little more than some other people due to exposure. I answered her questions but found her to be inconsiderate. I didn't even have time to do my own homework and had to do it during lunchtime at school. I had to help support my family during HS due to my stepdad's health problems. I'm sure you have a life as well and people need to respect this. You can be polite and warn then ignore them if they cross your boundaries.
About writing being messy: A physics prof (Tom Tombrello, nicknamed T-squared) said: "You will re-invent the wheel. You will invent wheels that don't roll."
The problem likely stems from a poor education system.
People need to learn how to learn, and become comfortable in unfamiliar mental territory.
I became a better learner and writer from programming teachers refusing to teach programming line-by-line.
While it's annoying, and I could have learned more from instruction, the skill to experiment and formulate the problem into a Google search is a universal skill that's helped me much more.
The ideal teaching scenario would be taking children, finding the topic they are really interested in, and then making them learn about it to develop these baseline learning skills.
Then adapting those into learning techniques for any other skill.
This is a really important discussion!! I notice something similar on the artist end. I get people saying "hey i want you to do this art piece for me" and then when i give it to them, being like "no i want it in this style." like dude, just because i can draw doesn't mean i can do every single style lol. i also grew up without social media!!! i didn't have a smartphone until i was a junior in college and didn't start texting until i was 18. i think we are very similar lol
SO GOOD!! i used to be so into writing tips ever since I first attempted nanowrimo, but more and more often it feels more stifling than helpful, and at a certain point it kinda became clear that all the writing tips would not write a book for me lmao.
Man, I am the same way! One of the reasons I get crestfallen about my stories is the fear of making a mistake and not bring able to fix it. I'm currently revising a story, short one, for a writing contest and I get do scared to even try to write it out, b%c I worry the story will not only not win, but not even get placed. But, gotta remember that art can't be liked 100% and it's ok if I don't win, as long as I know I tried my best and don't worry what others will say about it. I mean look at James Patterson. His first novel got a 2/5 on Goodreads and yet he has sold a crap load of books. Thanks, Shaelin for the loving correction and encouragement!❤❤
For future content, Shaelin, I'd love to see more videos where you apply these major tools to a work. I feel that we have enough resources out there, enough information, but people are missing seeing someone just putting those tools into action, and then solving the problems along the way. On authortube, writing gets boiled down to: You outline based on these beats, and then...follow all my "tips" and that's it. One of my favorite videos was one where you edited your work and showed how you edit, and why. I felt that video followed the whole "give man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for his life time." I hope the next level of authortube is more focused on showing the real life process, rather than everything being about following a formula (beats) and having the right answer (tips).
I worry that people have forgotten how to play. Problems or challenges in writing are invitations to play. The structure and hints and tips and all that stuff are the swings and slides and monkey bars: the tools we use to play. Writing is playing on that equipment. When you have a problem, play with it. That's how you learn to get across the monkey bars without falling off and spraining your ankle.
I've tried to teach myself that the tight feeling in my chest when I don't know how to deal with a writing problem is anticipation of the adrenaline rush of playing with the problem. Excitement that I'm about to go off on wild adventures until something clicks and I can return from my side quest with a new technique to apply to that piece of playground equipment that had looked so daunting.
I worry that people of my generation (I'm old, my child is only a couple of years younger than you, Shaelin) have been so busy structuring our children's lives, putting everything into a schedule, that we've left our children afraid to just play. To take the time and risk the ankle sprains.
Combining that with your assessment that ready access to quick answers on the internet discouraging personal experimentation, and I think you're right that this wonderful boon of access to information has come with the challenge of learning how to let go and strike out alone.
Thank you, Shaelin. As someone who's come late to the language and concepts of writing structure and techniques, and who hasn't had access to the education you've had, I find your explanations and supportive attitude valuable. I hope your viewers all find this video supportive and encouraging, that was how it struck me.
I love this idea, that difficulties in writing are just opportunities to play and explore the story.
OMG you're spot on with your explanation, that's the kind of stuff I try to explain constantly to my music students as well. Learning music is not learning to play a specific piece of music but learning the skills you need to learn tons of them faster and more efficiently! It's the same with every kind of craft!
We live in a culture where people's priority is to impress their friends, which results in them ultimately getting stuck for lack of willingness to work on understanding the bigger picture.
Right, physics! Physics, eh? Physics, physics, physics, physics, physics, physcis. Physics! Hope you're getting all this down.
*I LOVE that line*
It’s so interesting to me the idea of ‘The Great’s’. This constant need for answers may partially be the result of social media and the chaos it’s brought, but I think there’s something to be said about how we view classical novels, poems, works of art etc.; we view them as Godly, on another level, and PERFECT. It’s important to know that no art is perfect, but all art is perfect. A massive contradiction, I know but I mean that there is no answer to make perfect art, but that’s what inevitably makes the final outcome of ones work perfect. All art comes from a perfect place, it should never come from what worked previously for another person whom you have little connection with. Yes, learn about the very few core answers with writing, but also make your own answers. The works from ‘The Great’ writers and artists didn’t have the answers we all want, they forged them themselves. We are at a vantage point as we can learn about them as well as from them.
Thanks Shaelin for your usual balanced discussion. I did chuckle when I saw the title. The term 'life hack' never fails to make me shudder.
Oh god I'm an anxious duckling
Edit: I feel like I needed this advice for learning how to art :0 I've been looking up amd downloading so many brushes for certain effects I thought was "oooh cool!" that Idk what to do with them all and it made me feel like I was stuck. I felt like I wasn't really learning anything when what I feel like I need to do now is learn patience and actual techniques for art so I know what it is I want to draw.
There‘s so much truth in this video. Thank you I‘m sure many people needed that!✨
Loved this video! I think that I’d to the list of things to do before asking Shaelin (in my complete non-expert opinion) would be to look at other works similar to yours for inspiration. For example, with that 7 perspective fantasy novel, maybe take a look at Game of Thrones and figure out on a craft level how it works.
I think what you're talking about is about the Internet in general and what it's done to our brains. It's taught us to think the answer to everything is out there, not in here, not in your head. Everything you need to know can be Googled. Except as I've been working on my book I've realized I'm having to exercise a different part of my brain. The ways I can potentially make my good great really can't be Googled. People just aren't used to that feeling of being on their own, but that's probably what any creative endeavor is.
As a painter, your painting analysis is spot on. There's a reddit called r/restofthefuckingowl which was made to spotlight really bad art advice and tutorials, but all everyone posts there are tutorials ant tips for advanced artists, because they assume shit like "well if it won't teach me the basics every time it's an incomplete tutorial."
This reminds me a lot of writing questions too. It's never "hey I have this question about my story, I'm not sure how to approach creating a language, does anyone know how languages are formed?" it's "tell me how a fantasy language has to sound."
People aren't looking for methods, they're looking for ready, complete templates they can just rearrange a bit and ta-da! A story. They don't want art supplies and a canvas, they want a paint by numbers picture that will somehow be exactly what they imagined in their head.
Fuck you're awesome. Ayt, imma quit living vicariously through youtube and go experiment
Terrific video Shaelin. I think you’re right that this problem is symptomatic of a larger sociological dilemma.
Writing is neither problem-solving nor answer-seeking, writing is inventing your own methodology (way of doing) to do whatever you sought out to do in the first place. Because it is an art, not a science, it relies on previous experience to set its own foundations, which also means it is forever open to revision and reinvention. So there are no hard facts or fast rules or truths even, there are only conventions and stabilities, and we may adhere to them, or we may not. The essential is: choose and do. Decide something and do it. There's no mystery, no secret tip, no revelation hidden behind curtains. It is a practical endeavour, a doing, hands-on work.
Paralysis by analysis has been a problem for pretty much everyone I know. Not necessarily a massive one, but it's definitely a thing that should always be checked
This is definitely something me and other teachers--of all kinds of subjects!--have noticed in our students, clearly increasing with every year. In the first week you kinda have to shake them out of the habit of waiting to be told the "correct answers" and push them to think critically instead. Because that's just what they've grown used to. At least in part because of a greater emphasis on testing in schools, but also--why would you need to learn any of this stuff if you've got Google in your pocket? xD;; And they are always, always very scared or embarrassed to come up with their own answers, but after you've pushed them out of the bird's nest and into the habit of thinking for themselves, they become significantly more confident and, imo, happier in class.
I think part of the problem are people who post videos like "How NOT to write". Like there is a wrong way to write.
Writing is a way to express yourself, akd as long as you doing that, you are doing it right. There are no two people who are writing the same way. Just enjoy what your do, and everything is good!
we are in the interim period between boomer gens lack of access to alpha gens inundation of knowledge thats whats leading to this analysis paralysis in the first place. its the same in the art, painting community too.
you gotta remember on top of that you are also a pre jk rowling-is-now-on-twitter writer. everyone else can see the success of harry potter and see her on twitter all day and have to bask in her shadow. her being a billionaire as well as being a little bit more like the everyday writer makes us all a little weighed down by the expectation that everything we do must be gold... when in actually harry potter was considered to be something that would fail when it first started. this forces us all to want the next billiondollar ip/franchise and every story must turn into that or we completely failed.
i think once we get rid of that expectation we will all just write. like for fun..
in a few years this should level out though, i think people will finally put ALL the fundamentals of writing online (just the basics, not the specific stuff you mentioned). once that happens, all we have to do is get rid of expectation, and fear of failure.
art is failure, we fail all the time. thats what causes us to create.
i say this cuz in the art/painting/drawing community, almost all the fundamentals of drawing ARE free on youtube because of a handful of really generous creators. the problem of high expectations still exists though, and theres not really an easy way to get around that.
I've noticed this in online spaces and it's frustrating. That said I really think this is a "newbie writer" behavior that comes from folks who come into the craft feeling lost or overwhelmed. They get "tips" and rules lobbed at them that are sometimes contradictory, and aren't sure how to craft a piece that fits within this rigid framework. Then, they're kind of SOL unless they can find a good critique group, otherwise it's just an endless loop of feeling lost and uncertain.
I have people who got bitchy at me for not taking their advices lol
Thank you! this is always a good reminder that I need to hear every once and a while. :)
As a physics major - you hit it right on the head. Learn the rules, apply them to solve the problem...and double check you work! Your analogy is absolutely spot on.
T h a n k y o u for this! I deal with this everyday, seeing it in so many groups. "What do you think of this? Can this happen? what about this? how do I do this?" I see a lot of writers/authors do this. Additionally, I find, that these writers also cry when they get the answer they are looking for because it wasn't simple and meant a lot of work and fixes. It gives me great anxiety when I see these questions and know that it's too nebulous to answer--or worse--know I will be chewed out for giving an adequate answer that's too much for the writer. (if that makes sense.) This was the video that the community n e e d s. Thank you so much for talking about this topic.
Back in my day we created our stories on the walls of caves.....
The fan base is now the "writing ducklings" ...
I have the opposite problem as whats described here. I tend to think I know it all and I rather try to stumble through an issue on my own, instead of learning from others. I've wasted a lot of time learning certain lessons the hard way, when I could have just taken advice from experienced people.
The best writing advice about writing advice doesn't exi-
I swear, every time I click on your videos, I learn something crucial about writing--if "learn" is the right word; I feel like you're bringing to light what we all used to know, or should have known, and somehow overlooked. I can tell you I've wasted god knows how much time trying to get Google give me the details I need to develop my story and characters. And it's been a mistake.
I just came across this video and I think I really needed to hear this. Now that I know what it is I can say for sure that I've slowly fallen into this category of people. I haven't worked on my story for months because I'm so afraid of messing up. This was like a wake up call for me, and now I can see what I can do to combat my insecurity.
Thank you so much Shaelin, you've inspired me to write again.
As soon as I saw the title I had an idea of what this was going to be about.
This was such a good video. Food for thought. Thanks for sharing.
I notice that, while I don't ask questions about writing specific things in stories for the most part, I like reading writing-craft books and I watch a lot of youtube videos about writing even if it's about something I already know about. It's not necessarily that I think I don't know enough about it, though I get the feeling I'm hoping something new is revealed in the video, but it's almost like comfort food to me at this point? It's easy to get into and rest my mind, maybe?
Hey Shaelin, very interesting points you made. However, I do feel like you kept on rehashing the same ideas over and over again. You could easily cut the length of this video in half.
The biggest problem with my writing, is that I can’t get out of my own way. I have a writing degree too.
This really sounds like you're highlighting how cancel culture affects writer's craft
its kinda destroying art lowkey
OMG, I used to see this on a Facebook page by Tyler something or other. People continually asking people to write their stories. Drove me so mad I left it.
"Everybody has a plan, till they get punched in the face." - Mike Tyson
This is so true! The best tip you can give a beginning author is to just write and work on their own (using beta readers and critique partners but no 'writing tips') until they feel like they know what they're doing.
It's also why I mostly give method advice, different ways of identifying and approaching a problem and of checking if a solution works. Tips are mostly bullshit anyways because for every tip you have at least 50 books that do it 'wrong' but still are good and/or successful.
Thank you Shaelin, this help me a lot
Truth tea! Writing is a solitary and personal process most of the time, just you and your brain. And no one else knows/cares about your work more than yourself, most of which you can control and solve. Having learned something is a better destination regardless of whether your work is right or not.
Hey Shaelin, can you tell me about nuclear reactions? And quantum fluctuations?
Jj, but this is, I guess, informative. Thank you 🙏🏻
We think the writing community is amazing, well, we would. But! There are a lot of people in this world who can't, or won't, engage in real life with people. This is for so many reasons. It is always a learning curve. Not one author started off as an amazing writer.
I got overwhelmed with all the online info too. It’s hard knowing when to start when there’s so much to learn and it’s easy to find too much time researching instead of writing. I think it would be helpful to give people on idea on what to focus on first
I love you but I think this video comes across as more condescending and bitter than it comes across as you being humble and loving. At least, in the first third of the video. I'm sure you didn't mean for it to be like that, but as a huge fan of yours I feel the need to tell you that I don't think this video is a great representation of how wonderful you are. Maybe I'm just too sensitive to unexpected tough love even if your commentary doesn't apply to me personally lol. I wouldn't say it's a bad video idea, but I maybe would've thought you'd approach this more tactfully. You look great btw 💗 I hope you don't hate me for this but it's the only video of yours I dislike. Not because of anything you said, but how you said it. Some things, despite your clarifications and disclaimers, sounded a little arrogant.
Thank you for the feedback, genuinely I didn't mean for this video to sound condescending but now I see why it might come across that way when a video is coming from a place of 'knowing better than' (even though my point was that I don't actually know better than haha). I'll be honest that I was trying very hard to be tactful and so I'm not sure exactly how I could have phrased the discussion in a softer way now that I'm watching the video over again, but it is something I'll definitely try to do better if I make another video in this kind of community-discussion style again. They're very hard videos to make because the line between voicing problems with a community can very easily sound like it's coming from a place of anger or arrogance, and I am still trying to learn to walk that line in order to do that as respectfully as possible. It's tough, but that's why I appreciate the feedback!
@@ShaelinWrites I think it's the part where you're talking about the things you do better than the people who ask you questions. It didn't feel necessary especially with your tone. I'll try to find the timestamp.
@@erikaroth6049 Hmm I see, I don't think I even considered that that could sound arrogant because I was trying to make the point that usually anyone asking me a question is just as capable as myself, I've just been put in a situation that gave me more confidence, so I didn't think it would come across as me thinking I was better than others because my point was kind of the opposite of that, but I do see what you mean and how it could come across badly.
Thankyou so much for saying this! I’ve been doubting myself so much and feeling overwhelmed with writing information lately when a lot of the process is being able to think on your own without so much advice. Watching this reminded me that I can write my novel an rely on myself a lot more than I do!
I like your videos on writing a lot. They have really helped me, and I’ve decided that I am finally going to write my first novel. So first I get a story idea, then a premise, then do research, then flesh out characters, then write a synopsis, then do outline, and then finally write right?
I think I need to apologize to a TH-camr. I wanted to know how to write a book in five days so I search TH-cam because TH-cam has everything. Right? No. I did not get the step-by-step instructions I felt I should have waiting for me in specific details but I got more on how to prepare so you can write a book in five days. I was livid! So I got snippy. Yeah, I know. All I could remember was her talking about making sure you know what your meal plan is and find a quiet place to write. Meal plan?! I need details. I see now I was being unreasonable and want to apologize to her. Now, what is her TH-cam channel name? Thanks, kind person! 😖😫🙏🏿
But, as artist and painter, author and illustrator, I can say "You have to find your style and own lens of seeing the world."
I had to find my voice, the ability to see the world through a filter, to show others the things I found in the world, open a door for them, they could not see, but I could.
I know this is an old video but I think this exactly sums up how I felt when I got back into creative writing after a long period of not really doing any.
I grew up as a writer, my mum has always been an avid writer and my dad has written too, although not to the same extent. I learnt so much from them throughout my childhood, and writing has always just felt intuitive to me.
When I started studying with the open university, I stopped writing creatively (save for poetry), but now I'm no longer studying, writing has taken a forefront in my life once more.
I found that I was incredibly rusty, that I second guessed everything that I did, and I even somehow forgot every SPAG rule to begin with (something that always came naturally to me, and also something I'd been continuously using throughout my studies so it's not as though I was out of practice in that respect, the self-doubt was just so intense it was like an electromagnet to the hard drive of my brain).
At this point, I could've easily turned to TH-cam channels or blog articles or online courses to re-learn the inherent creative writing skills I'd once possessed, but I actively chose not to. I knew that my headspace was so critical of my own ability at the time, I'd fall into the trap of trying too hard to meet the standards set by the often-conflicting advice available online.
Instead, I just kept writing. And reading my writing. And re-writing. And writing some more. I'm writing a five-part series, so I have plenty to be getting on with. Over time, it began to feel intuitive once more. I'm trusting my ability to produce what I want to produce. I'm trusting my ability to edit and clean up my writing.
Only now have I started exploring TH-cam videos on writing advice etc. because I can view it through the lense of "here's some advice that might be applicable to me, not a hard and fast rule that must be followed."
I think some of the most useful videos I've found are your ones about believing in yourself as a writer :)
Shaelin, I absolutely agree with all you say, BUT when I add your and other videos to my own independent problem solving, my learning is 10x faster! When I'm stuck, I keep solving it + watching videos from you and others. I could have never learned things I know now without these videos. So a BIG thank you for that! :)
Shaelin, you are the best, I've only just discovered this video but found it at the perfect time for me. I am one of your older ducklings, I started studying creative writing in my 40s and am now studying for my Masters (in the UK). Thank you for such great, insightful video content. You would make an amazing Prof!
Not gonna lie... after watching this, I finally realized this was my problem. I'm so glad I found this video so I can start getting out of this mindset. Thank you for putting this out there!
In part I blame the writer blogging community. Perpetuated by a culture that demands that every writer writes a blog. And so you get hundreds of blogs all containing the same things. Every other writer blog is hundreds of the repeat article: "DO THESE THINGS AND YOU WILL BE A PUBLISHED BEST SELLER!" It''s just a fucking carbon copy of the same "evergreen content" bollocks, often duplicate article in the same damn blog, written in the same bland tonal mixture of unjustified authority and excessive saccharinity, and most of it is treated as some sort of hard formula (as per your physics example) that you follow and "win" instead of a set of broad concepts that you adapt, or ignore, as necessary. It's infuriating.
Thank you! My grandpa's dad answered a whole lot of questions with, 'you need to try it yourself.' My grandpa taught that to my dad and my dad taught it to me. Try it. I made my first dress the summer after 3rd grade. 1955. That was also the summer I read Great Expectations and was introduced to a world so far beyond myself that I have never looked back. I feel for those who have been spoon-fed answers. That doesn't mean I don't look for answers when I should be trying to figure it out myself, though.
You have to try and do something, anything, even if it's crap. Once you have something, you can ask other people in the craft, what can I do to make this less crap? And then try to apply that. That's a good way to work through a problem with the help of mentors. But you have to get dirty and struggle
Of course your questions will probably be more specific, because you've gone through the process and have a better grasp now on what exactly is causing you problems. So your question to the mentor might be something like, "I can't seem to be able to create this specific atmosphere, even though I've tried this and that. Do you have any suggestions on how I can improve this aspect?" Notice the difference between that and "How do I write a terrifying horror story?"
Thank you for the video, it's pretty motivating! Even for things that aren't writing, to be honest.
You're got this, everybody! Even if it's really hard and takes time, it'll most likely be very rewarding in the end.
Perhaps start with what you dread the most or what you know to be the most difficult, if possible, and try not to think 'I'll do this now' before starting. Instead just do it. That helps me personally against procrastination.
Amazing advice.
(And I’m just realizing that this is over a year old)
As a developer, this is exactly what I suggest to others. And other developers will agree that being a developer is “5% coding 95% google”.
You can’t know it all, and each situation will require something different based on what YOU are trying to accomplish.
OMG...prob the biggest pet peeves I have for my soon to be ex..is he would constantly ask me to type out a question on a forum, group, etc about something he could JUST GOOGLE. He doesn't really write publicly because of issues, so I'd seem insensitive and rude to not ask obvious questions
A main thing you have that I suspect many of those asking don't have is practice. 🙂
I stumbled upon this interesting "lecture" the other day. I hear many variations of this across all fields of study (I'm related to an educator). Part of me wants to say that this is the outcome of poor stewardship by the older (i.e. my) generation on conveying the value of discovery and growth and progress, that it shouldn't all be about getting a feel-good prize all the time. We've lost the positive value of constructive criticism, as well as the big picture journey. I remember when first drafts used to be called "rough" drafts, as if to dispel any notion that the start had any chance of being close to the finish. We learned that there was a process, and that review and revision was the real meat. But now, I'm ranting, myself. Oops.😆
I know it's an old video, but as an artist myself, I can rely on your example of someone asking "How to draw a cat?"
As you rightfully mentioned, there's a variety of fundamental tools and techniques that an artist needs to learn in order to acquire the basic knowledge of how the world around us works from a visual standpoint (perspective, texture, muscle and bone structure, etc).
Once you learned that, it becomes a game of problem-solving, and the reason why it was a good example is because the answer to those problems is always the same: Reference.
How do I draw a cat? Well, look at a picture of a cat (or take a real one...If you manage to find a cat who's gonna stand still for more than an hour, in which case, you have found a very patient cat).
Observe the world around you and determine which tool to use in your toolbox. There's no secret tip to draw every specific detail apart from learning the fundamentals and observing whatever you want to reproduce.
So, again, great exemple.
This applies to a lot of art mediums too. I have a friend who sells stickers and said she was having a crisis because she felt she wasn't good enough or valid because she mostly traces. I asked her about attempting to free hand some designs and she said her perfectionism wouldn't let her because she doesn't have the skill. I went "well you forge skill, it'll take some trial and error but you have the ability" and she just changed the subject
I don't want to sound gripy but it's like so many people are scared of failing, or just want to "get good" at it, you have to go through a learning period.
My favorite video by far. How I missed it, don't know. You really poured your heart out here, as well as your beautiful mind. Humor, (a chef's kiss) You're a great mentor. By the way, I think the color brown looks good on you. A truthful comp, for your knowledge shared. Fair exchange, I would say. And, you are wonderful 😊
I’m so happy you make discussion videos like this. I needed this a few years ago. I got into the mindset that writing was nothing without a formula for everything. A lot of the time people take the art out of writing. I definitely did that. And then writing wasn’t fun anymore. Fear and indecision are my worst writer traits but I’ve learned that I’m never going to do what I love without experimentation and practice.
Ok this video got me thinking... a lot... First I have to say thanks. Yes you had privilege but obviously you aren't holding back any acquired knowledge. Secondly, I'm learning so so much and thinking more deeply after watch any of your's video and I just can thank u for being such a good teacher.
(english is my second language xd)
To me, the fundamentals are confusing.
There are plenty of books and info on EACH aspect of writing: story arc, character arc, subplot...but, very little to no info as to how those three combine in the story fundamental 'correct' way.
Plus, all of the other components, character development, outline, plot, story, tropes, pacing, etc..
I think people are aware they CAN throw down a story.
Reading other people's reviews, I see they can tank a book.
Some are extremely critical. And mean.
People want to know how to format the story basics. Then they want to know how to format the book itself...soft cover, ebook, whatever.
People can 'just do it', and I did.
I created a very basic cookbook, and uploaded it to Amazon as an ebook.
The formatting was crazy. The words were all over the board...different colors, different fonts, different sizes. My perfectly arranged pages were half pages, skipped pages, two recipes on a page.
No one wants to put out weeks of work, then find it is completely wrong, and... people will be quick to stomp your butt in reviews.
It's better to know these things, and learn to do it right, before publishing , IMO.
You did go to school for 2 years to learn these things. Others may not have the money, time, or ability for that.
Very happy that you did, and you feel confident to 'just do it'.
Others are reaching out to get that confidence. Yes, school is the answer for some.
Buying books, and pretending that's 'school', is the way others are doing it.
Maybe, think about the questions they're asking. It possible what they ask is something totally different than you hear.
The FaceBook board 'Fiction Writing' is a great board to learn from. Brian Paone even gives Tuesday Tips on editing, and other info that is useful.
Another great Facebook writing board is 'The Writing Gals'. There is also a TH-cam channel.