Gay rights: Life under Section 28 - BBC Newsnight
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2018
- 30 years ago Section 28 was introduced. It was - the now repealed - clause of a local government act, to stop a council promoting the teaching of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship. That's a quote.
The prominent gay writer and journalist Matthew Todd - he was editor at Attitude magazine for many years - was in school in those days, and looks back now, at the effect it had.
Newsnight is the BBC's flagship news and current affairs TV programme - with analysis, debate, exclusives, and robust interviews.
Website: www.bbc.co.uk/newsnight
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A priest talking about perversion. Erm....................
The men with a congenital fetish for the genitals and anus of other men are 100% much more ironically unsuited to discuss it. Majority of Priests are good moral people.
@@jamesparsons8593 it's hilarious isn't it. Deviants thinking they can criticise a man of God.
Children need protecting from priests not gay people
Whenever people talk about protecting children, challenge them. The "protection of children" usually means the protection of adult emotions.
Not at all. That's just your way of seeing it as you're from one of the deviant communities kids must be protected from.
unless we are talking about protecting them from Priests or the Military..
@@classicepisodesofcrimewatc9971 elsewhere you mentioned statistics - are you familiar with the actual stats of who really molests children ???
@@andipandi5641 Seek first the Kingdom of Heaven and all else will be given to you.
@@adampowell5376 Adam I think I may have misread/misunderstood your comment. If that is the case I apologise.
Much like Churchill, supporters of Margret Thatcher don't like to hear about her flaws. Opponents talk about the mass privatisation of previously nationalised industry, but the enactment of section 28 was her biggest swept under the rug failure. Having said that, it was a sign of how ignorant society was back then, much like a pet project of mine, how people with Autistic Spectrum conditions are treated, there is still a long way to go
It worked pretty well on rural kids like me who were autistic and got called gay and queer and lesbian...all without the least idea what they meant or a teacher or parent ever stepping in as though stopping bullies would make us gay...
Rebecca Mary Stell tough. At least being autistic wasn’t worshiped like it is now. Kids still get bullied.
You may think so
Margaret Thatcher (along with Enoch Powell!) was one of the few Conservative MPs who voted to decriminalize homosexuality in 1967.
@@minchul80 that may be so, but it counts for nothing when she brought in legislation that criminalised people who were caught talking about homosexuality to young people who were in the midst of discovering things about themselves and almost certainly going through very tough times at that point. Section 28 did nothing to help them, if anything it just made their lives miserable
Same-sex marriage is still banned in Northern Ireland!
Unfortunately most people (both protestant and catholic) in Northern Ireland support the ban on gay marriage. They are much more religious there than the rest of the UK.
Good
There is no such thing as same-sex marriage
@Straight White Male it’s not anymore so you can go cry to your pillow straight white male
@@stairnaheireann1445 bruh his username is literally ‘Straight White Male’ 😂
I was at secondary school as section 28 was repealed. Attitudes remained unchanged for many years after the repealing of section 28.
I protesten a lot against Clause 28 in 1988, even as a Dutch man. I stayed in the UK in spring/ summer 88, I took part of that demonstraties in London. And also when I was back in Holland, I took part of a protestdemonstration in Amsterdam when Queen Elizabeth was visiting our queen and country, because of the William and Mary year.
Do you know who started the movement that in the end led to section 28 in 1988?Im reading a lot about what happened.
Section 28 looks mild now, by the way we are going. two mums and dads isn’t complete family a child does crave a missing parent at any given point
@@andybray9791 I m not interested in your opinion.
@@bartvanos1466 nobody has to be
I found this so hard to watch. Terrible sad. Very well put together and produced.
what i find worse is the state funeral for Thatcher after this atrocity, the poll tax and then ironically giving Savile a knighthood and enabling him to f*ck children..
@@frankzappaspussy7362 Good points you've made
I never knew this happened this needs teaching in schools now!
👏👏👏
I'm a teacher, I'm working on it. :)
we learnt about it in school today :)
@@stevenjarvill6312pedo
What this piece only touched on was that the legislation didn't stop teachers from condemning it and they did so in the extreme in some cases, which fueled the aggression from peers. That said, I also had teachers who didn't care and could be accused of promoting it.
what i remember most about this time was the beeb being brave enough to stick their head way above the parapet and defiantly including a gay story-line in Grange Hill which made a point of portraying homophobic teacher as an ass hole and rather obviously equated homophobia with racism..
Yes, I remember that.
@@adampowell5376
totally unlike last night where the BBC are so desperate to maintain the license fee that they showed us a melodrama where the murderous UK Military are selfless heroes and the government policy of spending millions on a nuclear holocaust would be foolish to abandon..
It is of course not an equation, never mind being obvious. No one would ever dare to equate an aversion to incest for instance, as similar to Racism.
@@classicepisodesofcrimewatc9971 I would however claim that people prioritise their own emotions over the welfare of those involved. Whenever religious organisations cover up child sexual abuse it is because they prioritise reputation over the welfare of children (and over the welfare of minor attracted persons).
@@adampowell5376 the Church and religion overall are generally built on moral and universally good principles. The community of men with a congenital obsession with the genitals of other males is of course not.
Just sad. If these guys had a relaxed teacher to talk to and be told it’s ok to be gay then surely that’s positive.
These people don’t seem to understand that children need to be told about sexuality so they can stay safe.
The scary thing. Esther McVay wanted to bring this back - thank god she’s been defeated in her bid to become PM.
As if she hasn't killed enough disabled people - many of whom are LGBT... Vile woman.
Esther McVey is an airhead
She also supported Jimmy Saville
@@markfernandes9715 Well I don't think that's technically true. She is not an airhead, Kim Kardashian is an airhead. But Esther is not a nice person.
@@beccastell6439 She is vile.
I don't believe homosexuality (or any sexuality) should be dealt with in primary schools - absolutely not. high school... a different matter.
I agree, I only started fucking guys in high school, primary would have been too early
That's what I was going to say.
I agree with Sebastian
I'm not sure how telling a child that sometimes 2 people of the same gender love each other will damage them. My mum told me about a gay couple she was friends with when I was 5 and it didn't affect me in any way.
In religious schools/other educational institutions would be inappropriate
If one thing needs promoting to all children in our current society, it is the beauty of homosexual curiosity
lets just say *CURIOSITY* full stop with no preconceived idea of where that might go..
You are being sarcastic, right?
Not even slightly sarcastic, jesus....
As a gay man even I know that comment needs at the very least edited and at the most deleted. I hope you’re first language isn’t English and the way you typed this was by mistake.
I can't believe your silly comment got 17 thumbs up.
Margeret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan in a dress.
Ironic
Get the Tories out.
Margaret Thatcher voted in favour of homosexual law reform and abortion in1967/8
ok but that does nothing to change the fact she implemented section 28
She jumped on board and supported it as It was another way for her to silence what she viewed as "Loony Left" councils and any other " propaganda" they might choose to " inflict" on taxpayers
Oddly enough, the 1960s liberalization of anti-gay laws was only partly done in 1967.
Just goes to show that banning education of any kind under the guise of “protecting children” only ever does more harm than good
I've always wondered how much of the brain drain was due to section 28 and the hateful climate during that era.
I for one escaped to the tolerance of San Francisco and silicon valley during that hateful time.
The sickening and unjustified arrogance to believe you are more intelligent because of being born with a congenital fetish for a man's 💩 hole. Such a laughably *weird* worldview.
How's San Francisco doing now btw? LMAO
@@classicepisodesofcrimewatc9971 That's actually want you said. They didn't say it.
Britain under Thatcher took ten steps backward
Hey BBC, find that man @1:44 and ask what is his opinion today.
Was he a tv personality? He looks very familiar- might be in Sports or Motorsport??
Jill Knight was not fit to be an MP. She was too easily led.
Now thing’s have swung towards the opposite extreme with kids being told that things like homosexuality is cool and worthy of pride. It’s being glorified and promoted when it needn’t be. What’s totally perverse though is that “transgenderism” is trying to be normalised and in extreme cases encouraged in schools so it seems.
Lg.. stuff is a war on morality esp in religious and primary schools
I was a bit too young to remember Section 28 being made law (I was still only 8 years old at the time it came in) and when lesbians stormed the BBC Six O'Clock News. But I can to a certain degree relate to what those guys went through around that time. Although I wasn't bullied for being "gay" I did get called it from time to time (I was perceived to be that way apparently - I actually identify as a bisexual) I was still hiding under the closet if you like. This was around Summer 1996 (when I was about to turn 17) when I started to know a bit about my sexuality but society at the time would of meant I may of been ridiculed, bullied and excluded from a number of activities had I of came out around that time. I'm so glad Section 28 no longer exists and we now live in a more tolerant society even though homophobia will never truly go away (either because people of a certain generation still think that way or there homophobes pure and simple).
Boy George released "No Clause 28" in 1988 which didn't do that well in the charts.
Rude Boy 77 Boy George is still alive...
Rude Boy 77 you seem obsessed with gay sex... keep an eye on your search history wouldn’t want that wardrobe door to fly open 😂🤣
@@andrewlauder2777 if 77 is clue to his year of birth, he is the generation who turned 11 in 1988 and therefore ignorant as hell and thanks to Thatcher's ideas on education as a whole the stupidity is ingrained. It is probably habit by now, sadly.
The music sounds good though, better than the garbage music that comes nowadays. 50, 70s,80s, 90s and noughties music are the best.
I went to a Catholic scholl so it was practically section.28 even before because churchs did what they wanted.
I knew I was different in lots of ways. I fancied men and I was a girl, first bit yes second no, I was not female hut did not get this until I got married then two kids. A very abusive relationship for me sexually.and menatlly for the kids a lot of psychological and sometimes he hit the eldest on. At 30 I had a breakdown and spent 6 weeks in hospital. 6 weeks later he told me we were moving to Scotland whether I wanted to or not..
So I went. Not happy.
Best thing I ever did. Less than 2 years I left him with mums help.
Then I felr a sort of liberation. I gfelt male but tried a 'lesbian ' lifestyle but no way that will work.
Then I had another breakdown. The LGBTQ centre were fantastic, I now who I was. I left hospital and changed my name and wardrobe! ! Kids were fine with it so were mum and dad my brothers though other wise and although one is ok the other ignores me.. I got more and more into helping LGBT youth and although due to all my health problems I now at 51 still go to small prides around Scotland. Life is grabbing the neck and enjoying. This is my message. Losing your life is not worth it.
This is exactly what we are going through in Florida in 2023!
Good
Should have gone to public school where you could get reamed fro free....
Expert on that are you?
I haven't come across evidence that Clause 28 had much effect on what happened in classrooms. It was symbolic when it went on the statute books and symbolic when it was repealed. It did however regalvanise gay activism and that bore fruit later on with civil partnerships and gay marriage.
Well of course you haven't Jonathan because we are all in the closet! Whereas look at the difference repealing it made - 16 years on from repeal and 49% of teens define as something other than heterosexual. That should tell you something. Kids who would have got help with bullying who were not even gay got raped or killed themselves, and an entire generation were married with kids before we realised anyone could be gay, not just Kenny Everett... It is hard to find evidence of things not being done because it requires you to prove negative...
Does the lived experience of generations of gay people meet your evidentiary standards? Is that good enough? I grew up gay in the 80's and 90' in a former mining village in central Scotland. I feel very fortunate to live in the time and place that I do because there are still so many places in the world where gay people are treated horrifically. That said, the lasting impact of Section 28 has left me with major depression and PTSD and has in many ways ruined any chance of a happy and healthy life. I've managed to do well professionally despite these problems but the struggle is immense and the damage very real, my self esteem and self loathing was ingrained in me as a child. Because of people like Thatcher, the tabloid press and the bloody bible, I grew up believing I was evil, disgusting, that my true nature was abhorrent, I was fundamentally unlovable and to be myself meant certain exile. It's impossible to fully recover from that sort of trauma when it started so early in life and persisted well into adulthood.
The newly reformed Scottish Parliament made the first steps towards ending the mental torture of young gay people in 1999 by getting rid of Section 28 but it's legacy will be with me forever and I can hardly think about without feeling absolute rage.
I can try and forgive, try to consider that a lot of these zealots and bigots genuinely thought they were doing the right thing, but no, that is a complete abdication of intelligence and is unforgivable.
@@DayVid2.0 you should have caved in to the depression and ptsd. You and all the other s0d0z
@@classicepisodesofcrimewatc9971 that's exactly the sort of hateful bile we've come to expect from religious people. How very Christian of you.
@@DayVid2.0 no you haven't even heard the tip of the iceberg. Across the world there is a deep revulsion for men with a congenital fetish for the genitals of other men. You should have done humanity a favour all those years ago.
I find questionable , I was pupil when section 28 came and later became a teacher.
As a pupil in a school with out gay pupils back in 1980s we where taught about homosexuality, we where taught that itvwa s natural it was part if being a human. A number of teacher reminded use that section 28 only applied to local government. Most school outside major cities where separate from local govt with there own board of governors head teacher and there senior managers The schools deputy head teacher was an open and out gay man there was no issue school unless controlled by the local govt directly where not covered by section 28 and could teach about homosexuality. Anyone being homophobic where dealt with.
We watch homosexual educational films about puberty and changes we can go through. Heterosexual and homosexual sex ed was dealt with equally.
Certain teacher identified that they could be approached and would be open to talk to about any questions you had or if anyone was bullying.
Yes we had people call each other gay and some bullying generally at the wrong people my best friend was always being called homo and gay yet I was the anyone and no one ever said anything or tried anything on with me.
Later when I became a teacher section 28 was still in force but as my school where no L.A. run. That was ignored and sex ed was taught equally .
So when I see these reports I have to ask where in the country this was happening and is this a case of the typical British reporting of London only and igorning the wide population for the sake if the truth.
This is a common practise in the UK, that London and the South East are Britain. What happens here us wgat happens in the whole nation. Which all British know to be B.S.
The BBC is so London southeast focused that every other region us ignored.
When I watch this report I can only assume I went to an enlightened grammar later comprehensive school.
Most children where from families of educated people majority came from home owners working class/ lower middle class. Or parent where managers engineers chemistist doctors small business owners. Very few came from the rented sector or council estates. Our teachers where well educated quotes a few from oxbridge or better universities. Very liberal educated left leaning. So homosexuality was there quite a few of the teacher where gay or lesbian and those pupil who where gay and had older gay friends new these teachers. Nothing sexual ever happened. (Shame as some where sexy in the 89 I was in the school sixth form we where the only non Catholic school to have an independent sixth form other 3 school only went year 12 (5th year) so we both to mingle with staff out of school socially at the pub we went away with teachers to educational weeks at various location to do additional study, those if use who drive took our cars and we had good times. Our teacher where morevtgan just teachers. As we became adults they treated us as your adults developing.
As a young teacher myself I only had two occasions where I felt I could not be myself one was a Catholic boys school where I was an outside anyway and the other a Welsh high school.
Where another young PE teacher took me aside and said this school will not support gay teachers keep it quiet.
I did remain there long.
There is no excuse for schools or teacher to allow homophobia to go on unless they are homophobic themselves.
i know this was commented a year ago but i feel the need to reply. i live in the northeast of england gay/lesbian sex literally wasn’t discussed in our sex ed classes and i only just left secondary school last year. all we learnt about was masturbation, straight sex, and safe sex but from a straight pov. so i really can’t imagine it would’ve been much different in many places at the time. maybe you just hit lucky with some good schools.
LGB has and definitely didn't then have anything to do with the T.
Children don't need protecting, they need expose to all types of sexual and emotional encounter
Lucas D
that is the excuse that a child-mollester might make for his actions..
however - the bottom line is who holds the power and who is taking the initiative - are we talking about teachers answering questions and facilitating an open and healthy debate.. 0r one person imposing their own desires on an other..
Skipper Russell it isn’t Queer propaganda, I’m not saying primary school children need taught about sex, but they do at some point need to be made aware families come in all different ways now (not that you’ll agree with that as your no doubt anti lgbt in every way) but teens need to be able to be taught that it is not right to bully their peers who may be gay, gay teens need to be able to go to someone such as a teacher they trust to discuss confidentially their attractions and when it comes to sex education homosexual sex needs to have some inclusion so that those students who are gay and sexually active, will be safe and take necessary precautions for their and their partners safety and sexual health. No doubt writing this will have been a waste of time.
I don't think children should be exposed to all the types of sexual and emotional encounters, they should be protected. Information about sexuality can be discussed in Secondary School, not Primary School when their brains cannot understand the stuff properly.
ding dong the wicked witch is DEAD
Maggies in the mud
You know that AIDs crisis of the 80s that plagued the booty hole lovers?
She outlived ALL of them that dropped off during the 80s! 👆🏾 Hahahahahaha
I was 13 and remember seeing the newspapers and Thatcher speaking about it. I'd known I was gay for a couple of years at that point and with the media storm stoked by the Sun and Mail I had already decided having friends was a bad idea as I didn't want anyone knowing. Two years later I tried to take my own life but was stopped from jumping in front of a train by a passer-by, I was at the end of my patience with society but decided to pretend to be straight in the hope that life would improve. It did improve but I was trapped in a character that was not me. It took me until the age of 27 to come out to a friend, he was angry that I had not been able to tell him in the three years we had known each other. A few years later I told another friend and she outed me to everyone I knew. I'm now in my late 40s and still feel the effects of what these people did to my generation. I have never been to Pride, I'm not out to work colleagues, and I don't discuss my sexuality with my family. I will never get over the fear I felt growing up.
I would not be able to sit and talk to that stupid woman who ruined my life and those of so many others, hearing her say she was guided by what the newspapers say makes it all the more horrifying. Their generation let down mine.
That's a sad story. It's hard to be yourself in what is seemingly a straight world, you feel alone. It's much safer to stay in the closet as homophobia is still very much alive now as it was then, you only have to see the negative comments on pride videos to know this, they say things they can't say in public, behind a pc and fake pic. Homophobia is in sports, churches, police, schools, the army. It's nobody's business who you are, it's perfectly ok to be private. Sadly the LGBT are just tolerated and it fully accepted as people think, only the law has changed, not attitudes. Please be safe and be cautious as homophobic attacks have increased.
One of maggie thatcher's horcruxes...
Religious ppl get persecuted these days
False! People are waking up to religion's lies nowadays. Time to accept that it's dying.
Section 28 was the only thing protecting the mass amount of children in the school system! It’s strange pedophilia is a sexual orientation should I respect that too?!?!
No because you have no respect in you!
Or prison
There's a massive difference between two consenting adults of the same sex and pedophilia. The latter is the only thing you should be outraged about.
what about thachers disregard for Morals.
great
Should’ve kept it
By the way things are are going since same sex marriage, mermaid scandal etc
Bring back 28
It was a great thing homosexuality is being pushed in schools not just taught but pushed. Leave the subject alone if anything it should be advised against and taught to be straight and normal
you are a disgusting, hateful person.
Bring it back
Why don't you fuck off to another country instead?
Should still be here. Margaret Thatcher was bang on the money with section 28.
Thankfully we don't live in The Handmaid's Tale, much to your disappointment
Your entire existence is a blight on society
I'm sure she'll value your company in Hell
Hell's bells - get over it - to promote heterosexual relationships is being attacked. Stop being a victim and live your life !
Can an internet debate be a victim? Looks like a video to me but OK
The pendulum is turning
You can't change people's attitudes. I liked the old system of tolerance. Don't ask, don't tell! Just don't shove it in my face and we will get along. We will never be best friends but that is not so unusual. I am not friends with very many anyway. I can live the idea of two men or women choosing to live together just as long as they are NOT offered as a legitimate alternative to ordinary, difficult marriage. I don't want my grandson going to his school prom with his boyfriend instead of a girl. Some things shouldn't change. And they shouldn't be allowed to adopt children. It seems to me that just perpetuates the lifestyle. What else are these poor children going to know except the life a gay family?
more importantly your son will not want you to be too much of a narrow minded bigot.. but your grandson will just think that you are a harmless anachronism..
it is very perverted for two men to pay a woman to get pregnant so that they can then take that child away from its own mother.. but if there are children without a family who need one - and then we should be grateful to whoever can provide one..
it is in the nature of evolution that some things thrive and perpetuate themselves - and one of those things is gay people and their lifestyle.. however - it is grossly unfair that demented christian bakers or B&B proprietors should be crucified by the law for refusing to join in..
Most gay people have heterosexual parents. No evidence that the orientation of parents has an impact on the children they raise
Why can't you be friends with gay people? Maybe you should meet some. Not all of them are campy and weird, about half of them are just like everyone else, and you have no idea until they tell you.
I said I liked the system of tolerance, something you obviously lack. Humanity has a base model built on reproducing families: Mum, Dad, and the kids. It was the basic building block of every society. One generation is not going to reinvent the wheel no matter how much you want this to happen. Human nature WILL prevail and the "oddballs" are likely to face a sterner backlash than in the past. Do you believe that some of these foreign cultures currently coming here are going to be as accepting as you?
The fact that gay people are here is evidence that they had heterosexual parents (most likely), We will have to wait a generation or so to see how this social experiment works out.
Margaret Thatcher was the last great British PM. She talked common sense. The noisy left and their demands for social acceptance of every form of deviant behaviour has to be a bad thing! A society has to have some core values. Talking about extreme reactions to being the objects of scorn, such as the "jumper" in this video, should not obscure the fact that it probably kept many who may have strayed on a straight path.
I have a straight friend with two gay sons. How they got to be that way is a matter of conjecture. My grandson went to school with a boy who came out as gay while still at high school. The point I am leading toward is that none of their old friends bother with them anymore. They had to make new friends. Their old friends are polite enough but they don't want top spend time with them anymore for obvious reasons. In the old days, the scorn and abuse that their outing may have invited could have prodded them to try harder to conform and perhaps go on to lead normal lives, or kept their little secret to themselves. This new tolerance almost makes heroes of them today. They give up their old friends and enter a new support group. If that support group was not there, they may try harder to conform.
Being gay is not unnatural and being forced to conform should not taught, all that does is cause depression often leading to suicide, it is living a lie and in almost all cases causes pain and disruption to that person and the people in his life. Just because of the kids you mentions bigotry (no doubt helped being taught by yourself in part) is still prevalent in some areas does not make it right. If you do not wish to have contact with gay people maybe you shouldn’t leave comments on videos such as this. Just because you are a homophobe doesn’t mean it is right to be one, the fact you feel tolerance is wrong says a great deal about you and I’m sure your intolerance is not only shown towards people who are lgbt+ do us the favour of not having to listen to your outdated hatred!
Also Margaret Thatcher was an evil c**t who nearly destroyed many people’s lives and livelihoods and the only thing good about her was to show that women should have an equal place in the world.
@@pakese30 It takes a hard head to run a country well. Bleeding hearts (think Jimmy Carter, and maybe Obama) make a mess of it. Thatcher started the UK on the road to healing. She took on the unions who were too powerful. If you take a look at econ 101 you may find a bit that explains that when unions or any collective bargaining groups, use their power to force higher rewards from the system, others have to take less.
@@pakese30 Being gay is contrary to nature's intended role for you. Almost all are born with the tendencies towards that which nature intended for us. It is the exposure to ideas and events in our early lives that make us different. In more primitive societies, homosexuality is less common. Life is closer to traditional roles. I think the very early perceived relationship between the parents, assuming they are together, sets the stage for sexual development. If Daddy isn't around it would be the one the child identifies as Mummy's partner. Mummy is the centre of any young child's life. Few are born homosexual. Homosexuals are created by early events in their lives. Homosexuality seems more common today because we have loose values and the traditional family has fallen by the wayside. The models upon which children build are flawed. Parents bear a big slice of the responsibility for this, but society in general is at fault too. We have to be tolerant of those who cannot help being what they have become, but we don't have to like them or want them around us unnecessarily!! I think most people feel this way. We tolerate but we don't like.
Mexican Highlife can you then please explain why this unnatural thing happens in many species as well as our own? I have both a mother and a father, neither of which are happy I am gay, in fact I don’t remember ever hearing about homosexuality as a child, I was brought up in a catholic home and went to both a catholic primary and high school. None of my peers had home lives different from my own consisting the “normal” family unit, sissyness wasn’t stood for yet when I and my peers started going through puberty they looked to girls while was drawn to boys. There was no experimentation within my group of friends that sometimes occurs when hormones start racing and girls are not available, and believe me I wished mightily growing up that I could be interested in chasing after girls instead of pretending. I did not choose to be gay it would have been a damn sight easier not to have been.
What a great law they should bring it back
Shut up you tool
Jill Knight was not fit to be an MP. She was too easily led.