Johnny Archer wins the first game and immediately, the score keeper posts a win for CJ Wiley. I have noticed over the years that score keepers are not good at their job. But I have to say that score keeping is a VERY tough job so.... LOL Cheers
CJ started out hustling when he was a kid. I imagine he played on any tables that he could win money on. Most bars would not have allowed him entrance at 16 or 17, but pool halls would have, so I think he was probably familiar with every table and size.
Along with his good friend Scotty Townsend who was also a great bar box player. We lost Scotty in a motorcycle wreck a few years ago. Together they ruled the Gulf coast taverns and sports bars.
@@BladeRunner-td8be This is a 7 foot table. Look at the distance between the length of the cues, when they lay them on the table, and the distance left to reach the end cushion. Cues are usually 58 " and the distance cushion to cushion on a 7 foot is usually 40"x80", or sometimes 39"x78". The 8 footer is always 44"x88". There's no way that there's 30 more inches of table from the end of the cue to the end cushion.
Is it just me or these 7ft barboxes always have slopes, the q ball never travels in a straight path and in general balls zoom over cloth way too far/fast.
Either CJ and Johnny were looking to hustle someone else later that day, or two of pool's greatest players were embarrassed and brought to their knees by a fast bar table. At one point I thought I was watching Wack-A-Mole. It took ten racks before both of them could get the ball to stop within two feet of their desired position. I honestly have never seen them play worse.
I stand corrected. After watching again you are right. Thanks for bringing it up. Interesting that he would shave his head. I have played in his Sports Bar in Dallas many times back in early 90's.
This was a godawful match, considering these two are giants of the game. I'm not bragging when I say that I would have bar-b-qued either of them, even on this equipment, unless they were actually laying down here. Did either of them break and run out, even once? After rewatching this match, I have concluded that the reason their level of play is not up to par, is the table they're playing on is way out of level, and the slate is dished, (meaning it is low in the center, notice how the balls hardly ever end up against the side cushions, and almost always roll towards the center), and the cloth is really a fast type, (too fast, maybe Simonis 760), because both players are having a lot of difficulty with holding the cue ball, and in getting on the right side of the ball for position. It's really a shame that players of their callibre are relegated to playing on such crappy equipment.....this table is what we, as technicians in the billiard industry, always used to refer to as an RPS......Real Piece of Shit.
I've got news for you, the side pockets are generally smaller on a bar box than the corner pockets are, which is the opposite case on a regulation table. And, actually, the corner pockets aren't really all that loose on this table. The size of the pockets didn't even come into play as much as you think they do with these seasoned top players. These are both world champions, and they are mostly having trouble adjusting to the speed of the table, and they are getting out of line quite a bit. Plus, there's more to how the pockets will accept a ball or reject it than just the size of the opening. There's the depth of the slate into the pocket, what they call the "porch", the angle of the facings, or the "pitch" of the pockets, and the size of the pocket at the mouth and at the throat, both of these sizes are a factor, as well.
@@dougoverhoff7568 I appreciate how technically elaborate your reply is and the time you put in it. However this still is a baby game when compared to a real table like chinese pool or snooker where true technique, stance and straight cueing, cue ball control have to be perfect to put. These days if a ball hits the rail and goes in, it just puts me off completely.
@@adnanbezri To each his own, I say. And, variety is the spice of life, as they say. BTW, my own practice table for years was a 9 foot antique snooker table, with the rounded snooker pockets, that measured just under 3", the side pockets a little wider, of course. And with 2 and1/8" pool balls, there was only 1/4" of play on either side of the ball. So, I can attest to the accuracy needed in order to play well on tight equipment. FYI, I have run three consecutive racks of 9 ball on that table, and countless racks of 8 ball, just so you know that I can play a little. Also, it frustrated many of my friends who attempted to play on it, and rarely did any of them run out on it, despite the fact that most were much better than average players. Incidentally, this table was in my billiard supply store, just so that you know that I do know my equipment. Each game has its own discipline, and not to take anything away from those other games, there is still a beauty and an art in the game of pool. Albeit, many pool tables today are equipped with too wide of pockets to make the game as demanding as it might, or possibly should, be. That is due in large part to Willie Mosconi who, as a member of the Brunswick advisory board in the early 60's, suggested opening up the pockets, in order to attract more players to the game. He also recommended the addition of different colors of cloth, in hopes of attracting the female players. Keep in mind, however, that the average class of player out there still struggles to make any high runs, even given those wider pockets, and wants to make balls, and not to always see them get rejected from too tight pockets. And, pool room owners are reluctant to putting in tables with too tight pockets, because it would drive away their patrons, who might otherwise become frustrated and never return, and that's not a smart business move. So, you may not be a big fan of the game of pool, but then you don't have to be, either, as there are other disciplines for you to enjoy. Good luck, and good shooting. Rack 'em up!
@@dougoverhoff7568 i used to love pool and I moved on. In my good days, I ran 10 consecutive racks of 8 ball in a tournament and 6 consecutive racks of 9 ball. Now I make centuries on a snooker table and never looking back. Next year I am going to Q School.
I've watched every CJ Wiley video I can find. In most of them he does not play well at all. Are they only posting his bad games? I know he's a great player. I've heard so many stories of him running 15 straight racks. Maybe he just didn't perform well in tournaments?
I agree he didn't play well in this video. However he was in the Philly / DE area this past August (2022) and won the 3 or 4 tournaments he played in while he was here giving lessons. I met him and took a 3 hr. lesson. Well worth it!
@@seamusmcfadden994 I know he plays great, but I also know old school road stories are embellished as they get older. I knew an old school rosd legend very well. Scotty Townsend
that table looks to be what I call a "kiddie table" 3.5 x 7 ft. I can't believe players of top talent would demean themselves by playing on such a small table. What's next, a 3 x 6 table. It's just ridiculous to watch.
@@lowfat1969 I beg to differ. The only challenge a small table bay present is more clusters, and even more if the cloth is slow. If you know the basics of cue ball positioning, it only takes a few rounds to get used to the speed of the cloth for precise positioning.
@@kchiang4 that's what I said... smaller table require more accurate Que ball control because of the cluster and the size of the table and speed of the cloth is irrelevant because while most small bar tables have thicker and slower cloth for longer life you can also have a bar table fitted with simonis cloth that is just as fast. Also not all bar table has the same side rail to end rail ratio this ratio difference changed the bank angles and multirail shots. I have played and instructed billiards for over 30 years and It takes more than a few rounds to adjust to playing me on any table. Don't take my word for it, if you ever come to Dallas bring your money and I'll give you as many round as you need to adjust.
@@lowfat1969 you should’ve been more specific in your wording. You only mentioned the cue ball positioning. I’ve played in leagues in the Midwest where it was all bar boxes. Neither cue positioning nor clustering of the balls hampered my game at all. Straight up a lot easier than the shimmed 9 foot tables I’m used to. Don’t assume everyone’s a chump. I run one half the time, also aspiring to instruct and write my own book on the game.
He’s playing for himself, not for you to watch. And if you’re playing him, he’s not hurrying up so that you can finally get a turn. I actually think it’s quite stupid for players to shoot fast. most of the pros actually shoot at that pace.
@@chili015 No, different people have different sweet spots for pace. I'm sure he's reasons why he prefers that pace, and I'm sure he's tried different paces already. It could also be for keeping the mental game in check, or for ensuring more consistent form/shot routine. Again, shooting fast has no functional purpose in pool unless you can work with that rhythm flawlessly. Shooting fast may even lead to or add on flaws in your stroke, like a dropped elbow, over/under wrist tuck easily. 1 missed ball means game over, not like in your armature leagues. Again, they are not playing for your entertainment. I just rewatched this game. He's not shooting slow. Y'all never watched a pro play before if you think that's slow.
Johnny Archer wins the first game and immediately, the score keeper posts a win for CJ Wiley. I have noticed over the years that score keepers are not good at their job. But I have to say that score keeping is a VERY tough job so.... LOL Cheers
i noticed that too. Isn't that crazy
Johnny kept his hair, he's the true winner
As long as the drapes match the carpet
This table has to be nearly a quarter inch out of level from the break end downhill to this racking end!
"Dont f*** with the baldies!" (The Wanderers)
I love the backround music 🎶🙄
Johny would have lost 30 times with a 1 minute per shot clock.redic
I think CJ started out as an bar box extraordinaire
CJ started out hustling when he was a kid. I imagine he played on any tables that he could win money on. Most bars would not have allowed him entrance at 16 or 17, but pool halls would have, so I think he was probably familiar with every table and size.
Along with his good friend Scotty Townsend who was also a great bar box player. We lost Scotty in a motorcycle wreck a few years ago. Together they ruled the Gulf coast taverns and sports bars.
Man that was a great match. 2 of the best
Seems to be a good number of people on who who are uninformed about various aspects of pool
Juke joint day's, make sure there's a back door...
TABLE fast as glass
I'd much rather have seen them on a 9 foot.
At least it's an 8 footer. I won't watch a match on a 7 foot table and I don't care who is playing.
@@BladeRunner-td8be as you watched them play on a valley bar box....
@@allenwelden7099 You do realize Valley makes an 8' bar box?
@@BladeRunner-td8be This is a 7 foot table. Look at the distance between the length of the cues, when they lay them on the table, and the distance left to reach the end cushion. Cues are usually 58 " and the distance cushion to cushion on a 7 foot is usually 40"x80", or sometimes 39"x78". The 8 footer is always 44"x88". There's no way that there's 30 more inches of table from the end of the cue to the end cushion.
@@BladeRunner-td8belmao this is a 7 foot table you goober lol 😂 😂😂😂😂😂
Filmed this match with the security camera, nice touch, some high production stuff.
10 minutes of this was Johnny racking lol😆
Best to play Johnny in a tournament. Gambling with that man seems like a bad decision for some reason.
Is it just me or these 7ft barboxes always have slopes, the q ball never travels in a straight path and in general balls zoom over cloth way too far/fast.
Wiley didn't do himself no favor going with the skint head look.
It's ok to be bald dumb fuck
I was hoping cj shot draw on the 9
Either CJ and Johnny were looking to hustle someone else later that day, or two of pool's greatest players were embarrassed and brought to their knees by a fast bar table. At one point I thought I was watching Wack-A-Mole. It took ten racks before both of them could get the ball to stop within two feet of their desired position. I honestly have never seen them play worse.
Are you sure that CJ? Hairless?
Bald is not for certain race of people.
Not sure who the bald player is, but I know its not CJ Wiley, but he is playing Johnny Archer
That is CJ. He shaved his head.
I stand corrected. After watching again you are right. Thanks for bringing it up. Interesting that he would shave his head. I have played in his Sports Bar in Dallas many times back in early 90's.
It's because of all that flat earth theory that he will argue with you over for hours
TvJMack k
What is all of that weird noise in the video?
somebody did noise reduction on the audio and left some artifacts
This was a godawful match, considering these two are giants of the game. I'm not bragging when I say that I would have bar-b-qued either of them, even on this equipment, unless they were actually laying down here. Did either of them break and run out, even once?
After rewatching this match, I have concluded that the reason their level of play is not up to par, is the table they're playing on is way out of level, and the slate is dished, (meaning it is low in the center, notice how the balls hardly ever end up against the side cushions, and almost always roll towards the center), and the cloth is really a fast type, (too fast, maybe Simonis 760), because both players are having a lot of difficulty with holding the cue ball, and in getting on the right side of the ball for position. It's really a shame that players of their callibre are relegated to playing on such crappy equipment.....this table is what we, as technicians in the billiard industry, always used to refer to as an RPS......Real Piece of Shit.
Yeah, they are playing on what looks like a 4 x 8. This video was taken in 2014, and Johnny won 3 open tournaments after this vid, so....
What a joke look at those pockets ! Freakin huge
I've got news for you, the side pockets are generally smaller on a bar box than the corner pockets are, which is the opposite case on a regulation table. And, actually, the corner pockets aren't really all that loose on this table. The size of the pockets didn't even come into play as much as you think they do with these seasoned top players. These are both world champions, and they are mostly having trouble adjusting to the speed of the table, and they are getting out of line quite a bit. Plus, there's more to how the pockets will accept a ball or reject it than just the size of the opening. There's the depth of the slate into the pocket, what they call the "porch", the angle of the facings, or the "pitch" of the pockets, and the size of the pocket at the mouth and at the throat, both of these sizes are a factor, as well.
@@dougoverhoff7568 I appreciate how technically elaborate your reply is and the time you put in it. However this still is a baby game when compared to a real table like chinese pool or snooker where true technique, stance and straight cueing, cue ball control have to be perfect to put. These days if a ball hits the rail and goes in, it just puts me off completely.
@@adnanbezri To each his own, I say. And, variety is the spice of life, as they say.
BTW, my own practice table for years was a 9 foot antique snooker table, with the rounded snooker pockets, that measured just under 3", the side pockets a little wider, of course. And with 2 and1/8" pool balls, there was only 1/4" of play on either side of the ball. So, I can attest to the accuracy needed in order to play well on tight equipment. FYI, I have run three consecutive racks of 9 ball on that table, and countless racks of 8 ball, just so you know that I can play a little. Also, it frustrated many of my friends who attempted to play on it, and rarely did any of them run out on it, despite the fact that most were much better than average players. Incidentally, this table was in my billiard supply store, just so that you know that I do know my equipment.
Each game has its own discipline, and not to take anything away from those other games, there is still a beauty and an art in the game of pool. Albeit, many pool tables today are equipped with too wide of pockets to make the game as demanding as it might, or possibly should, be. That is due in large part to Willie Mosconi who, as a member of the Brunswick advisory board in the early 60's, suggested opening up the pockets, in order to attract more players to the game. He also recommended the addition of different colors of cloth, in hopes of attracting the female players. Keep in mind, however, that the average class of player out there still struggles to make any high runs, even given those wider pockets, and wants to make balls, and not to always see them get rejected from too tight pockets. And, pool room owners are reluctant to putting in tables with too tight pockets, because it would drive away their patrons, who might otherwise become frustrated and never return, and that's not a smart business move.
So, you may not be a big fan of the game of pool, but then you don't have to be, either, as there are other disciplines for you to enjoy.
Good luck, and good shooting. Rack 'em up!
@@dougoverhoff7568 i used to love pool and I moved on. In my good days, I ran 10 consecutive racks of 8 ball in a tournament and 6 consecutive racks of 9 ball. Now I make centuries on a snooker table and never looking back. Next year I am going to Q School.
@@adnanbezri Good for you. Good luck!
I've watched every CJ Wiley video I can find. In most of them he does not play well at all. Are they only posting his bad games? I know he's a great player. I've heard so many stories of him running 15 straight racks. Maybe he just didn't perform well in tournaments?
Pool player road stories are like fishing stories, the more they are told the more racks they ran.
I agree he didn't play well in this video.
However he was in the Philly / DE area this past August (2022) and won the 3 or 4 tournaments he played in while he was here giving lessons. I met him and took a 3 hr. lesson. Well worth it!
@@somepeoplecanthandlethetruth A lot of his stories are verifiable though.
@@seamusmcfadden994 I know he plays great, but I also know old school road stories are embellished as they get older. I knew an old school rosd legend very well. Scotty Townsend
These guys dont like barboxes at all.
At their talent level I would never play on a beer joint table. Wouldn't even go to the places that have them.
World class pool players competing on little kiddie tables. I can't stand it. I'm out
i learned on a 4x8. the 7s are smaller, but more traffic means more thinking.
that table looks to be what I call a "kiddie table" 3.5 x 7 ft. I can't believe players of top talent would demean themselves by playing on such a small table. What's next, a 3 x 6 table. It's just ridiculous to watch.
It's ;ppls ridiculous but it is more of a challenge to compete on a smaller table. Smaller tables require much more accuracy on the q ball position
@@lowfat1969 I beg to differ. The only challenge a small table bay present is more clusters, and even more if the cloth is slow. If you know the basics of cue ball positioning, it only takes a few rounds to get used to the speed of the cloth for precise positioning.
@@kchiang4 that's what I said... smaller table require more accurate Que ball control because of the cluster and the size of the table and speed of the cloth is irrelevant because while most small bar tables have thicker and slower cloth for longer life you can also have a bar table fitted with simonis cloth that is just as fast. Also not all bar table has the same side rail to end rail ratio this ratio difference changed the bank angles and multirail shots. I have played and instructed billiards for over 30 years and It takes more than a few rounds to adjust to playing me on any table. Don't take my word for it, if you ever come to Dallas bring your money and I'll give you as many round as you need to adjust.
@@lowfat1969 you should’ve been more specific in your wording. You only mentioned the cue ball positioning. I’ve played in leagues in the Midwest where it was all bar boxes. Neither cue positioning nor clustering of the balls hampered my game at all. Straight up a lot easier than the shimmed 9 foot tables I’m used to. Don’t assume everyone’s a chump. I run one half the time, also aspiring to instruct and write my own book on the game.
@@kchiang4 tou·ché
CJ is bald now..and that table is fast..
Actually he has a full head of hair now. I was shocked when I noticed this at the recent Mosconi Cup. He looks good. Cheers
@@BladeRunner-td8be cj is a good guy and smart too.
@@BladeRunner-td8be No he's bald. As of August 2022. Stop.
@@tomshaw661 I love CJ, maybe smart but .......awfully gullible.
Every Flat Earther is gullible.
CJ looks alien like or like bozo the clown. Plays like it too, now. Horrible play for a once top pro on a barbox.
archer is a slow boring player to watch
Agreed. It's like, SHOOT THE BALL ALREADY!!!
He’s playing for himself, not for you to watch. And if you’re playing him, he’s not hurrying up so that you can finally get a turn. I actually think it’s quite stupid for players to shoot fast. most of the pros actually shoot at that pace.
@@kchiang4 - You're not wrong, but Archer has been playing pool for over 30 years. If he did play faster, the results would likely be the same.
@@chili015 No, different people have different sweet spots for pace. I'm sure he's reasons why he prefers that pace, and I'm sure he's tried different paces already. It could also be for keeping the mental game in check, or for ensuring more consistent form/shot routine. Again, shooting fast has no functional purpose in pool unless you can work with that rhythm flawlessly. Shooting fast may even lead to or add on flaws in your stroke, like a dropped elbow, over/under wrist tuck easily. 1 missed ball means game over, not like in your armature leagues. Again, they are not playing for your entertainment.
I just rewatched this game. He's not shooting slow. Y'all never watched a pro play before if you think that's slow.
@@kchiang4 Earl, Filler, Shaw, Shane all play faster and are better for crowds.
They always draw them.
Horrible play