23:58 It's a pity you never had to use the force of will. Can you imagine how tilting it would be to see defense grid in game 2 off your opponents atraxa, just to get forced in game 3
Me, listening the deck tech "It's one of the first times I'm not convinced by the structure of a deck of yours". Bosh: "This is a fancy lookin yate hold together with duck tape". Well, glad to see we agree on the first impression xD Edit: Damn, I'm being very impressed. Lesson remembered, never doubt Bosh mastery.
7:10 I think I have heard this is the literal definition of "midrange". Usually when I hear "midrange" I do not think of a deck that plays 2 copies of Lion's Eye Diamond but I suppose, in a way, this counts.
i think a strength of the deck is if we arent using the forces out of the sideboard, we dont have to play so many echos because we play the 4 entombs. game 2 becoming a beatdown deck against their graveyard hate is stronk
It sounds like a weird idea but what would Emrakul tribal look like with the 12 mana with madness 6 emrakul from MH3 to take all of your opponent’s creatures, the Emrakul from pioneer to control your opponent + the aeon’s torn for the extra turn, annihilate 6, swing for 15? Maybe some smaller eldrazi or something like cloudpost or something get the mana faster for the hard cast to go alongside maybe flash/show and tell/through the breach or to bridge the gap before you just flop a big eldrazi into play for 3-5 mana or whatever. And if going “big” eldrazi there’s always Ulamog (the one that hits for 10 and mills 20) to go alongside this stuff but maybe the eldrazi from what Phil posted to TH-cam yesterday would be a more reasonable “bridge the gap” plan. In the unlikely situation you have all 3 emrakul’s and the opponent doesn’t straight up scoop you can make them bolt themselves or thoughtseize themselves or fetch and fail to find followed up with stealing all their creatures and annihilating all their lands to swing for mega lethal against an empty board but let’s not get too lost in the sauce.
Emrakul Tribal is the literal definition of getting lost in the sauce. If you don't win by putting the first Emrakul into play, what are you even doing?
@@Dracomandriuthus I think that madness 6 colorless is also not all that difficult in modern already and with something like legacy or vintage it’d be something they could do by turn 3 without assembling tron as well. For hard casting it, it’ll take 12 mana, which may as well be 13 or 15 like the other two versions of Emrakul. All 3 tron lands and you have 7 colorless so that if faithless looting or something similar was modern legal could tron land, map, tron land color filtering chromatic star or sphere, turn 3 assemble tron, crack the star or sphere for red and discard MH3 Emrakul using the remaining 6 colorless to cast it. It’s not as easy as some other things that could be done but turn 3 of any of the Emrakuls would generally just end the game on the spot. That’s the point behind show and tell emrakul and the only reason for not having emrakul in tron is 7 mana won’t cast a 13 or 15 mana spell but they put the 13 mana emrakul in lotus field combo because you get an extra turn in pioneer before you had to win or do something impactful and you could easy tap and untap the lotus field and the thespian stages enough to get the 13 mana pretty quick. That one wasn’t the aeon’s torn but the promised end would usually win the game too. Being that the existing emrakuls have been impactful despite their high mana costs and if tron could discard MH3 emrakul for 1 mana on turn 3 it could hard cast it for the madness cost and that’d help make tron more relevant. And they wouldn’t have to do some stuff with amulet of vigor or lotus field or devoted Druid or another deck that produces a bunch of mana but just wins with cultivator collosus, primeval titan valakut, or walking ballista instead of emrakul or ulamog instead. The “lost in the sauce” part might be trying to make a deck that could play all 3 versions like maybe have a lot of mana, some way to show and tell omniscience, and/or cast the new emrakul for its madness cost. Whichever Emrakul winds up in play will probably win the game with the promised end being the weakest but you’d also have to fill the deck with other stuff so that’s not emrakul or bust and the 2 mana eldrazi and/or the 3-5 mana eldrazi could help or if going lotus field or cloud post elvish reclaimer gives them something else to do like maybe just put a 20/20 in play instead of emrakul. Or maybe keep walking ballista in when they don’t turn off artifact activated abilities since a deck that can hard cast 15 mana emrakul will have a lot of mana. There’s also that door to nothingness combo using amulet of vigor and a 5 or 6 mana mox that taps for 1 of each color and there’s another artifact that can be used in place of casting cards for their cost making expensive cards cost 1 of each color instead of their normal mana cost. Many ways to hard cast emrakul without omniscience in play but show and tell omniscience is probably the most reliable that can be done turn 1 legacy or vintage with lotus petals or whatever in legacy but also moxen and black lotus in vintage like black lotus, show and tell omniscience, drop in promised end, mh3 emrakul, aeons torn (would require a pretty specific hand) and then take the extra turn and if you don’t win on the spot play your opponent’s next turn too to finish them off if they have cards in their hand that can be used on themselves like crackable fetch lands, lightning bolts, thoughtseize, stuff to sacrifice their creatures, wastelands to blow up their own lands, or whatever. By the end of it your opponent will have no permanents and no life points. As long as they don’t counter show and tell or all of the “free” spells you cast when you no longer have to pay mana for them.
Saw the title and only half read it, then it gave me an idea creatures with Echo costs would be kinda sick of rescaminator and wen to look up every creature with Echo costs..... And none of them are good for the archetype, this makes me big sad how cool would it be if there was a good echo creature? Just don't pay the echo and you always have a good target for Reanimate. Feels like a deliberate choice when WotC designed Echo.
I wonder if we could scratch this off in modern, use the psuedo diamond eye lion and echo, with scam package and persist, profane tutor, preordain or tome scour
I don't understand the friction between echo and discard spells. You use discard spells to get the echo through... is that not the most important thing? If you have no interaction and your opponent counters.. then what? You're stuck trying to grind. If you strip their protection then you have a higher chance of furthering your plan. Sure, they get a fresh grip.. but so do you. Soooo rinse and repeat? They might draw another counter or whatever but you might draw another discard spell to clear it. Plus with this deck your plan is to hit their life total on the way through. And you say that but then you're running grief? Sooo not bad? Anyway that said I think Lili is a bit odd. It's a discard outlet but it's a bit expensive and much worse at offering protection like targeted discard. I suspect either a more efficient dedicated discard outlet or targeted discard would be a better fit.
Whenever you say something like this, you gotta suggest where you would put the cards in the deck and how the replacements would improve the deck. So if your plan is to add discard to make Echo easier to resolve, what do you take out? You mentioned Lili, so that's 1 replacement. What else? Chrome Mox? Trim back the Reanimation package to focus on discard to resolve Wheel + Bowmaster/Hullbreacher? Like obviously you can make a case for a lot of cards to go in any deck, but unless you can construct a replacement list with reasoning then it's pointless speculating scenarios where the cards you want to add are good if those scenarios require worsening your game plan more in other areas. Adding cards to a deck is never free. Discard just doesn't suit what an Echo deck wants to do. An Echo deck wants to dump out cheap artifacts turn 1, wheel a new 7, do the same thing again, and then win. If the Echo gets countered then that's just the game you're playing, you scoop and go next. Discard spells are incredibly slow and adds additional turns to a deck that wants to win before the opponent realizes they even queued up for a game. Sometimes you can't do that, but that doesn't mean you should start slowing your deck down on purpose just because sometimes you don't turn 1 spank them. As you say the Lili is strange, but I wouldn't replace her with a cheaper discard spell, I would replace her with something that speeds up the deck. Even just adding a third Ponder would be better than a discard spell. Ponder makes your game faster, whereas discard makes the opponents game slower. Since Echo wants to go fast, choosing the option that speeds the game up will almost always just be better.
I love how the youtube game category of this video is Bowmasters (2016)
This is exactly the mad scientist's brew i was hoping for when i submitted this. Love it.
Me: sees the length of game 1
Me: Let me guess, dunpstered by Doomsday?
Bosh: Nah, I'll win
Nah I’d win
this contraption was beautiful, i will definitely be sending it back to you before i make it my next deck! appreciate you Brian!
Bosh and Roll facerolling people with random decks arc has defo begun
LET ME COOK
@@BoshNRoll Please dude, the smoke alarm is ringing…
@@BoshNRollif you wanna cook try to make mutate Brostorm work in pioneer;)
I have no idea what you just said, but I agree
Match 1 feels like revenge after all those other matches against Doomsday with meme decks
Fr
23:58 It's a pity you never had to use the force of will. Can you imagine how tilting it would be to see defense grid in game 2 off your opponents atraxa, just to get forced in game 3
Brainstorm into 3 Lotus Petals was hilarious
three of a kind, fold. Sponsored by an online poker game, lol.
WE ARE PODRACING!!!
Unburial Rites could be a cute way to tie together led and reanimator package
The 3-drop slot is just perfection
That was fun. I'm looking forward to watching another video with a revised version of this deck.
i really feel like this deck is meant to have a tranformative sideboard, round 4 is a perfect example of it
40:19 The funny thing is you have seen that card, it was in your deck when you played infect yourself. You just never drew the card the entire league.
Love the Uber competitive decks but brews make me very happy lol
Me, listening the deck tech "It's one of the first times I'm not convinced by the structure of a deck of yours". Bosh: "This is a fancy lookin yate hold together with duck tape".
Well, glad to see we agree on the first impression xD Edit: Damn, I'm being very impressed. Lesson remembered, never doubt Bosh mastery.
perfect way to start the league!!!
BOSH PACK GOOD MORNING
I find it amusing how this has become a daily comment template
same
@@jaredschroeder7555what does it mean?
7:10 I think I have heard this is the literal definition of "midrange". Usually when I hear "midrange" I do not think of a deck that plays 2 copies of Lion's Eye Diamond but I suppose, in a way, this counts.
That's legacy
the hero play round 2 is everything
I think playing one ‘from the catacombs’ to be able to entomb a reanimate spell seems potentially worth the slot
i feel like 1 echo in rescaminator as an entomb find when appropriate seems okay without much if any additional investment
sick run sensei
Does this deck want Careful Study, since we want only some cards in the graveyard?
i think a strength of the deck is if we arent using the forces out of the sideboard, we dont have to play so many echos because we play the 4 entombs. game 2 becoming a beatdown deck against their graveyard hate is stronk
Playing all the echos is great because if you don't need the entomb for an echo you get to use it on a hullbreacher to reanimate
@@Zauzzie I'm thinking about having this be a daze deck
Great podrace love to see it
It sounds like a weird idea but what would Emrakul tribal look like with the 12 mana with madness 6 emrakul from MH3 to take all of your opponent’s creatures, the Emrakul from pioneer to control your opponent + the aeon’s torn for the extra turn, annihilate 6, swing for 15? Maybe some smaller eldrazi or something like cloudpost or something get the mana faster for the hard cast to go alongside maybe flash/show and tell/through the breach or to bridge the gap before you just flop a big eldrazi into play for 3-5 mana or whatever. And if going “big” eldrazi there’s always Ulamog (the one that hits for 10 and mills 20) to go alongside this stuff but maybe the eldrazi from what Phil posted to TH-cam yesterday would be a more reasonable “bridge the gap” plan.
In the unlikely situation you have all 3 emrakul’s and the opponent doesn’t straight up scoop you can make them bolt themselves or thoughtseize themselves or fetch and fail to find followed up with stealing all their creatures and annihilating all their lands to swing for mega lethal against an empty board but let’s not get too lost in the sauce.
Emrakul Tribal is the literal definition of getting lost in the sauce. If you don't win by putting the first Emrakul into play, what are you even doing?
The small 2 drop from MH is going to be Much More competitively impactful.
Just a colorless lord to go into mud eldrazi stompy is big.
@@Dracomandriuthus I think that madness 6 colorless is also not all that difficult in modern already and with something like legacy or vintage it’d be something they could do by turn 3 without assembling tron as well. For hard casting it, it’ll take 12 mana, which may as well be 13 or 15 like the other two versions of Emrakul. All 3 tron lands and you have 7 colorless so that if faithless looting or something similar was modern legal could tron land, map, tron land color filtering chromatic star or sphere, turn 3 assemble tron, crack the star or sphere for red and discard MH3 Emrakul using the remaining 6 colorless to cast it. It’s not as easy as some other things that could be done but turn 3 of any of the Emrakuls would generally just end the game on the spot. That’s the point behind show and tell emrakul and the only reason for not having emrakul in tron is 7 mana won’t cast a 13 or 15 mana spell but they put the 13 mana emrakul in lotus field combo because you get an extra turn in pioneer before you had to win or do something impactful and you could easy tap and untap the lotus field and the thespian stages enough to get the 13 mana pretty quick. That one wasn’t the aeon’s torn but the promised end would usually win the game too.
Being that the existing emrakuls have been impactful despite their high mana costs and if tron could discard MH3 emrakul for 1 mana on turn 3 it could hard cast it for the madness cost and that’d help make tron more relevant. And they wouldn’t have to do some stuff with amulet of vigor or lotus field or devoted Druid or another deck that produces a bunch of mana but just wins with cultivator collosus, primeval titan valakut, or walking ballista instead of emrakul or ulamog instead.
The “lost in the sauce” part might be trying to make a deck that could play all 3 versions like maybe have a lot of mana, some way to show and tell omniscience, and/or cast the new emrakul for its madness cost. Whichever Emrakul winds up in play will probably win the game with the promised end being the weakest but you’d also have to fill the deck with other stuff so that’s not emrakul or bust and the 2 mana eldrazi and/or the 3-5 mana eldrazi could help or if going lotus field or cloud post elvish reclaimer gives them something else to do like maybe just put a 20/20 in play instead of emrakul. Or maybe keep walking ballista in when they don’t turn off artifact activated abilities since a deck that can hard cast 15 mana emrakul will have a lot of mana.
There’s also that door to nothingness combo using amulet of vigor and a 5 or 6 mana mox that taps for 1 of each color and there’s another artifact that can be used in place of casting cards for their cost making expensive cards cost 1 of each color instead of their normal mana cost. Many ways to hard cast emrakul without omniscience in play but show and tell omniscience is probably the most reliable that can be done turn 1 legacy or vintage with lotus petals or whatever in legacy but also moxen and black lotus in vintage like black lotus, show and tell omniscience, drop in promised end, mh3 emrakul, aeons torn (would require a pretty specific hand) and then take the extra turn and if you don’t win on the spot play your opponent’s next turn too to finish them off if they have cards in their hand that can be used on themselves like crackable fetch lands, lightning bolts, thoughtseize, stuff to sacrifice their creatures, wastelands to blow up their own lands, or whatever. By the end of it your opponent will have no permanents and no life points. As long as they don’t counter show and tell or all of the “free” spells you cast when you no longer have to pay mana for them.
probably more brazey b's in the side against chalice and leyline?
Nice one
Wow Bosh y u gotta hurt me a lands main like this
goryocoin on the rise 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
it was never relevant 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
Hello!
Hello!
Hello!
Good shit
Saw the title and only half read it, then it gave me an idea creatures with Echo costs would be kinda sick of rescaminator and wen to look up every creature with Echo costs..... And none of them are good for the archetype, this makes me big sad how cool would it be if there was a good echo creature? Just don't pay the echo and you always have a good target for Reanimate.
Feels like a deliberate choice when WotC designed Echo.
Match one game one my lord
I wonder if we could scratch this off in modern, use the psuedo diamond eye lion and echo, with scam package and persist, profane tutor, preordain or tome scour
sweet!
Hi doublestrike2!
10:00
In r2 g3 could you have blocked the broadside with Atraxa? It can’t throw itself so you’d get the lifelink right?
It has menace
broadside has menace, you'd need a second blocker. cant crack LED for the brazen borrower either as it can only block flying
Game 1 of round 5, couldn't you have used Goryo to revive the bowmaster for the final point of damage?
It’s not legendary
hi doublestrike2
Sup!
Oh damn, first??
I don't understand the friction between echo and discard spells. You use discard spells to get the echo through... is that not the most important thing? If you have no interaction and your opponent counters.. then what? You're stuck trying to grind. If you strip their protection then you have a higher chance of furthering your plan. Sure, they get a fresh grip.. but so do you. Soooo rinse and repeat? They might draw another counter or whatever but you might draw another discard spell to clear it. Plus with this deck your plan is to hit their life total on the way through. And you say that but then you're running grief? Sooo not bad? Anyway that said I think Lili is a bit odd. It's a discard outlet but it's a bit expensive and much worse at offering protection like targeted discard. I suspect either a more efficient dedicated discard outlet or targeted discard would be a better fit.
Whenever you say something like this, you gotta suggest where you would put the cards in the deck and how the replacements would improve the deck.
So if your plan is to add discard to make Echo easier to resolve, what do you take out? You mentioned Lili, so that's 1 replacement.
What else? Chrome Mox? Trim back the Reanimation package to focus on discard to resolve Wheel + Bowmaster/Hullbreacher?
Like obviously you can make a case for a lot of cards to go in any deck, but unless you can construct a replacement list with reasoning then it's pointless speculating scenarios where the cards you want to add are good if those scenarios require worsening your game plan more in other areas. Adding cards to a deck is never free.
Discard just doesn't suit what an Echo deck wants to do. An Echo deck wants to dump out cheap artifacts turn 1, wheel a new 7, do the same thing again, and then win. If the Echo gets countered then that's just the game you're playing, you scoop and go next. Discard spells are incredibly slow and adds additional turns to a deck that wants to win before the opponent realizes they even queued up for a game. Sometimes you can't do that, but that doesn't mean you should start slowing your deck down on purpose just because sometimes you don't turn 1 spank them.
As you say the Lili is strange, but I wouldn't replace her with a cheaper discard spell, I would replace her with something that speeds up the deck. Even just adding a third Ponder would be better than a discard spell. Ponder makes your game faster, whereas discard makes the opponents game slower. Since Echo wants to go fast, choosing the option that speeds the game up will almost always just be better.
Shallow grave would work better with the LEDs, unless I am missing something
I talked a lot about why I didn’t play shallow grave in the deck tech
@@BoshNRoll my bad, i must have totally spaced
9:30 could have surveilled the grief to reanimate it.
Leyline of the Void was in play
Leyline of the void in play
Leyline of the Void was in play
Getting Grief and not Griselbrand vs Gobos g2 was CRIMINAL
You can't entomb a card from your sideboard
What if we unbanned WoF in legacy 🤔🤔🤔