Please do more docs like this puts many offers to shame, repetition of information, loud music, hard to understand narration, this is example of good documentary
47:57 This picture reminds me of a quite interesting story I've heard about Ismay. Around the time "A Night to Remember" was published in November 1955 Walter Lord got a letter from England about the "remarkable finish" at the 1913 Derby in Epsom Downs. Craganour, the favourite, crossed the line first and was escorted to the winners' circle. Then, without a protest from anyone, it was disqualified and the race was awarded to second-place Aboyeur. Craganour, Lord's correspondent said, was owned by Bruce Ismay, and I guess the inference is clear: the establishment would never let an Ismay-owned horse win the hallowed Derby. Walter Lord then went to check the story. Everything turned out to be accurate except for one important detail. Joseph Bruce Ismay didn't own Craganour. Charles Bower Ismay, his younger brother, did. Still, Craganour remained disqualified. The reason? Craganour's original jockey had been replaced by an American one, Johnny Reiff. I don't know why that was but the move was immensely unpopular, and the discussions the judges are (apparently) supposed to conduct at the end of the race before announcing the winner presented them with the golden opportunity to discredit Reiff. Walter Lord, though, said he still got letters afterwards still linking Bruce (not Bower) Ismay and Craganour together
This is an excellent documentary, and I appreciate that you minimized the use of pictures or scenes from the 1997 movie. I have been a Titanic historian since the late 70s, and this is perhaps the best presentation I have seen. Nice job.
39:43 5th Officer Lowe was asked at the Senate hearings what an iceberg was made of. He replied "Ice I suppose sir" I have a feeling Lowe was a very direct person.
J. Bruce Ismay did technically supply more lifeboats than the Board of Trade required (though just a handful more) but then there's Google which still says that he was the one who "in a move that would become highly controversial" decided to limit the number of lifeboats on the Olympic and Titanic to 16, even though the davits could accommodate 48 (the number strongly advocated for by Alexander M. Carlisle of Harland & Wolff). Ismay justified his decision by saying that the ship itself was a lifeboat so there was no need to clutter the deck. (How did he know that his ship was its own lifeboat if he wasn't the shipbuilder I wonder.) And then there's Walter Lord who said that the Board of Trade section responsible for lifeboat capacity was dominated by the shipowners themselves they wanted to utilize the space for more 1st-class amenities (instead of "cluttering it with - of all things - lifeboats."). With that, Lord said, the shipowners "knew exactly where they stood on the issue, and they didn't want boats for all." Ismay tried to evade American jurisdiction by sending a message to the White Star offices in New York and asking them to hold this other ship the Cedric until he and the crew came so they could go back to England as soon as possible. To that he added "Propose returning on [the Cedric] myself." He made the message look even more suspicious by signing it "Yamsi" his last name spelled backwards. Congress heard about it through the USS Chester though and Sen Smith was able to form his subcommittee to investigate the disaster.
About the role of lifeboats as "ferries" between the stricken ship and the rescue ship (so that there was "no need" to have "boats for all") I think the trouble with that approach is by the time the "ferries" made one trip and came back the stricken ship might've been in a far more precarious situation if not already beneath the water. So with a full lifeboat complement and a nice and properly trained crew it would've all been more effective and faster everyone would've been evacuated at the same time. The normally stormy North Atlantic is no place for such "ferries" especially if the crew had to row (the boats weren't motorized) the poor crew would've for sure been exhausted from rowing in choppy waters. That night the sea was "like a millpond" (Ruth Becker) and it seems largely forgotten that this is really the exception on the North Atlantic. (And the very fact that it was so calm makes it very easy for people now to think of lifeboats as "ferries") Also the word was spread at the time that the North Atlantic run was so busy "there were always other ships nearby if anything happens." The Titanic was doubtless no exception the Californian was only 10mi away or most probably less than that (donkey boilerman Ernest Gill and carpenter James McGregor saw the Titanic's distress rockets very plainly as did the officers) but then (a) she was the one and only ship really close and (b) Cpt Lord just wouldn't do anything (not even as little as wake up Cyril Evans just a few steps away and have him check on the situation). And then apart from the Californian all the other ships contacted by Phillips and Bride were much further away. The Carpathia for just one was no fewer than 58mi from the scene so she needed 3.5hrs she didn't get there until 1h40min after the Titanic slid beneath the water. In closing what real good is a ship nice and "nearby" on "the always busy North Atlantic" if the captain just won't bother?
38:47 #7 was the lifeboat that took William Thompson Sloper who was falsely accused of dressing as a woman. #7 was also the one and only lifeboat lowered within one hour after the impact it had room for 65 yet it was lowered with only 28, less than half its capacity. This means that only a total of 28 people left the sinking ship during the first hour after the impact
32:47 What was the Titanic's final destination? New York. What was the name of the ship the Titanic almost collided with? Of all names - New York. Isn't that quite something. Anyway though I wished they had actually collided it took place at the harbor so help would've been available just around the corner. Then in another really eerie coincidence Eliza Gladys "Millvina" Dean who was both the youngest passenger aboard (2.5mo) and the very last survivor passed away right on the 98th anniversary of the Titanic's launch May 31 2009
@@dovetonsturdee7033 It was of the officers' concern the sooner they know the better I didn't say the message was secret "Highlighted reply" here too btw
@@fmyoung 'I didn't say the message was secret.' I didn't say that you did. The presence of ice in the area was known from a number of other signals. It was hardly news, and Smith had already taken action. What, by the way, are these regular references to 'highlighted reply' when they are simply the comments to which I am responding?
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Highlighted reply again " 'I didn't say the message was secret.' I didn't say that you did. The presence of ice in the area was known from a number of other signals. It was hardly news, and Smith had already taken action. What, by the way, are these regular references to 'highlighted reply' when they are simply the comments to which I am responding?"
41:16 It may be that he "could see no women and children in the vicinity" but I am sure he knew many would be left on board thanks to the inadequate lifeboat capacity
Bruce Ismay seems to have completely lacked a conscience. It was too much to expect from a man who hovered suspiciously near the lifeboats of the sinking Titanic and even appropriated a sailor's rowing seat--after he'd been the very one to actively reduce the number of lifeboats from 48 to 16 and 4 collapsibles.
Except Ismay did not influence the numbers of lifeboats. Or so, at least, Alexander Carlisle, the designer of the Olympics, stated when giving evidence to the British Inquiry.
What I hear from Walter Lord in "The Night Lives On" is that Carlisle from Harland and Wolff vigorously advocated for increased lifeboat capacity on WS's new superliners (he wanted 64 although he felt that 48 would be enough) but Ismay decided against full lifeboat capacity thinking as he did (along with many others) that lifeboats would be needed only as passenger ferries from the stricken ship to the rescue ship. The justification used for that was "there is always another ship nearby on the busy North Atlantic run". In the Titanic's case the Californian was nearby yes but then Cpt Lord just wouldn't bother. And all the other ships contacted by Jack Phillips and Harold Bride where much further away. (The Olympic for one was 505mi away so she would've needed just under a full day to make it to the scene.) Besides with full lifeboat capacity all the passengers could have been evacuated at once no one would've been left waiting on the sinking ship for the "ferries" to come back for more passengers The ship itself might've well been beneath the water by then
@@giovannirastrelli9821 Carlisle was even made to sign a recommendation that reduced the number of lifeboats required for the new superliners. An incredulous Lord Mersey asked "Was that your view?" "It was not" Carlisle hesitantly replied after the commissioner pressed him for an answer "Why on Earth did you sign it?" "I do not know why I did. I am not generally soft" Then in an effort to break the strain the attorney-general said "Well, I should not have thought so?" after which Carlisle said "But I must say I was very soft the day I signed that."
@@fmyoung 'What I hear from Walter Lord in "The Night Lives On" is that Carlisle from Harland and Wolff vigorously advocated for increased lifeboat capacity on WS's new superliners.' When did Carlisle 'vigorously' campaign for that? He simply stated that he designed the ship to be able to carry more lifeboats in the event that the Board of Trade changed their regulations to cater for the new superliners being introduced. When they didn't, the original number of 16 (plus four collapsibles) was retained. Even with extra boats, it is unlikely that there would have been time to launch them, by the way. In the acrual sinkings, the last two collapsibles floated off as she sank.
Boring, long, dull narration, overly detailed with endless information that was uninformative and uninteresting. The female narrator sounded robotic, like she read from a teleprompter.
Please do more docs like this puts many offers to shame, repetition of information, loud music, hard to understand narration, this is example of good documentary
"Offers"? I think you mean others?
@@fmyoung yes others
47:57 This picture reminds me of a quite interesting story I've heard about Ismay. Around the time "A Night to Remember" was published in November 1955 Walter Lord got a letter from England about the "remarkable finish" at the 1913 Derby in Epsom Downs. Craganour, the favourite, crossed the line first and was escorted to the winners' circle. Then, without a protest from anyone, it was disqualified and the race was awarded to second-place Aboyeur. Craganour, Lord's correspondent said, was owned by Bruce Ismay, and I guess the inference is clear: the establishment would never let an Ismay-owned horse win the hallowed Derby. Walter Lord then went to check the story. Everything turned out to be accurate except for one important detail. Joseph Bruce Ismay didn't own Craganour. Charles Bower Ismay, his younger brother, did. Still, Craganour remained disqualified. The reason? Craganour's original jockey had been replaced by an American one, Johnny Reiff. I don't know why that was but the move was immensely unpopular, and the discussions the judges are (apparently) supposed to conduct at the end of the race before announcing the winner presented them with the golden opportunity to discredit Reiff. Walter Lord, though, said he still got letters afterwards still linking Bruce (not Bower) Ismay and Craganour together
Fantastic work. First time I've seen a doc follow Ismay until the end. Don't listen to the haters...they consume information like children
This is amazing! And I think that the Narrator did an amazing job telling Ismay's story
Excellent clear narration and full of good information, not repetitive as in sone, music in background as it shoukd be, fantastic find on TH-cam
This is an excellent documentary, and I appreciate that you minimized the use of pictures or scenes from the 1997 movie. I have been a Titanic historian since the late 70s, and this is perhaps the best presentation I have seen. Nice job.
Excellent video thanks 👍😊
39:43 5th Officer Lowe was asked at the Senate hearings what an iceberg was made of. He replied "Ice I suppose sir" I have a feeling Lowe was a very direct person.
Very interesting and well put together,keep it up
J. Bruce Ismay did technically supply more lifeboats than the Board of Trade required (though just a handful more) but then there's Google which still says that he was the one who "in a move that would become highly controversial" decided to limit the number of lifeboats on the Olympic and Titanic to 16, even though the davits could accommodate 48 (the number strongly advocated for by Alexander M. Carlisle of Harland & Wolff). Ismay justified his decision by saying that the ship itself was a lifeboat so there was no need to clutter the deck. (How did he know that his ship was its own lifeboat if he wasn't the shipbuilder I wonder.)
And then there's Walter Lord who said that the Board of Trade section responsible for lifeboat capacity was dominated by the shipowners themselves they wanted to utilize the space for more 1st-class amenities (instead of "cluttering it with - of all things - lifeboats."). With that, Lord said, the shipowners "knew exactly where they stood on the issue, and they didn't want boats for all."
Ismay tried to evade American jurisdiction by sending a message to the White Star offices in New York and asking them to hold this other ship the Cedric until he and the crew came so they could go back to England as soon as possible. To that he added "Propose returning on [the Cedric] myself." He made the message look even more suspicious by signing it "Yamsi" his last name spelled backwards. Congress heard about it through the USS Chester though and Sen Smith was able to form his subcommittee to investigate the disaster.
About the role of lifeboats as "ferries" between the stricken ship and the rescue ship (so that there was "no need" to have "boats for all") I think the trouble with that approach is by the time the "ferries" made one trip and came back the stricken ship might've been in a far more precarious situation if not already beneath the water. So with a full lifeboat complement and a nice and properly trained crew it would've all been more effective and faster everyone would've been evacuated at the same time. The normally stormy North Atlantic is no place for such "ferries" especially if the crew had to row (the boats weren't motorized) the poor crew would've for sure been exhausted from rowing in choppy waters. That night the sea was "like a millpond" (Ruth Becker) and it seems largely forgotten that this is really the exception on the North Atlantic. (And the very fact that it was so calm makes it very easy for people now to think of lifeboats as "ferries")
Also the word was spread at the time that the North Atlantic run was so busy "there were always other ships nearby if anything happens." The Titanic was doubtless no exception the Californian was only 10mi away or most probably less than that (donkey boilerman Ernest Gill and carpenter James McGregor saw the Titanic's distress rockets very plainly as did the officers) but then (a) she was the one and only ship really close and (b) Cpt Lord just wouldn't do anything (not even as little as wake up Cyril Evans just a few steps away and have him check on the situation). And then apart from the Californian all the other ships contacted by Phillips and Bride were much further away. The Carpathia for just one was no fewer than 58mi from the scene so she needed 3.5hrs she didn't get there until 1h40min after the Titanic slid beneath the water.
In closing what real good is a ship nice and "nearby" on "the always busy North Atlantic" if the captain just won't bother?
Will you ever do one on the RMS Majestic?
38:47 #7 was the lifeboat that took William Thompson Sloper who was falsely accused of dressing as a woman. #7 was also the one and only lifeboat lowered within one hour after the impact it had room for 65 yet it was lowered with only 28, less than half its capacity. This means that only a total of 28 people left the sinking ship during the first hour after the impact
Tolle Dokumentation, würde es nur gerne auf Deutsch ansehen wollen. Mit den Untertiteln ist nicht so das Wahre.
32:47 What was the Titanic's final destination? New York. What was the name of the ship the Titanic almost collided with? Of all names - New York. Isn't that quite something. Anyway though I wished they had actually collided it took place at the harbor so help would've been available just around the corner.
Then in another really eerie coincidence Eliza Gladys "Millvina" Dean who was both the youngest passenger aboard (2.5mo) and the very last survivor passed away right on the 98th anniversary of the Titanic's launch May 31 2009
Has been a long time
36:19 Why Cpt Smith handed the message to Ismay instead of dutifully posting it on the bridge for his officers to read is hard to understand
Because it was one of several similar messages. There was nothing either secret nor urgent about it.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 It was of the officers' concern the sooner they know the better I didn't say the message was secret "Highlighted reply" here too btw
@@fmyoung 'I didn't say the message was secret.' I didn't say that you did.
The presence of ice in the area was known from a number of other signals. It was hardly news, and Smith had already taken action.
What, by the way, are these regular references to 'highlighted reply' when they are simply the comments to which I am responding?
@@dovetonsturdee7033 Highlighted reply again
" 'I didn't say the message was secret.' I didn't say that you did.
The presence of ice in the area was known from a number of other signals. It was hardly news, and Smith had already taken action.
What, by the way, are these regular references to 'highlighted reply' when they are simply the comments to which I am responding?"
If the photo of collapsible C is the one islay was on and in documentary ,which person is he in the bout ?.
That’s actually collapsible D, but even if it was C, it would still be impossible to tell who’s who.
❤
41:16 It may be that he "could see no women and children in the vicinity" but I am sure he knew many would be left on board thanks to the inadequate lifeboat capacity
Bruce Ismay seems to have completely lacked a conscience. It was too much to expect from a man who hovered suspiciously near the lifeboats of the sinking Titanic and even appropriated a sailor's rowing seat--after he'd been the very one to actively reduce the number of lifeboats from 48 to 16 and 4 collapsibles.
Except Ismay did not influence the numbers of lifeboats. Or so, at least, Alexander Carlisle, the designer of the Olympics, stated when giving evidence to the British Inquiry.
Did you even watch this video or done any actual research? Because right now you’re literally just quoting a 1943 Nazi Propaganda movie.
What I hear from Walter Lord in "The Night Lives On" is that Carlisle from Harland and Wolff vigorously advocated for increased lifeboat capacity on WS's new superliners (he wanted 64 although he felt that 48 would be enough) but Ismay decided against full lifeboat capacity thinking as he did (along with many others) that lifeboats would be needed only as passenger ferries from the stricken ship to the rescue ship. The justification used for that was "there is always another ship nearby on the busy North Atlantic run". In the Titanic's case the Californian was nearby yes but then Cpt Lord just wouldn't bother. And all the other ships contacted by Jack Phillips and Harold Bride where much further away. (The Olympic for one was 505mi away so she would've needed just under a full day to make it to the scene.) Besides with full lifeboat capacity all the passengers could have been evacuated at once no one would've been left waiting on the sinking ship for the "ferries" to come back for more passengers The ship itself might've well been beneath the water by then
@@giovannirastrelli9821 Carlisle was even made to sign a recommendation that reduced the number of lifeboats required for the new superliners. An incredulous Lord Mersey asked "Was that your view?" "It was not" Carlisle hesitantly replied after the commissioner pressed him for an answer "Why on Earth did you sign it?" "I do not know why I did. I am not generally soft" Then in an effort to break the strain the attorney-general said "Well, I should not have thought so?" after which Carlisle said "But I must say I was very soft the day I signed that."
@@fmyoung 'What I hear from Walter Lord in "The Night Lives On" is that Carlisle from Harland and Wolff vigorously advocated for increased lifeboat capacity on WS's new superliners.'
When did Carlisle 'vigorously' campaign for that? He simply stated that he designed the ship to be able to carry more lifeboats in the event that the Board of Trade changed their regulations to cater for the new superliners being introduced.
When they didn't, the original number of 16 (plus four collapsibles) was retained.
Even with extra boats, it is unlikely that there would have been time to launch them, by the way. In the acrual sinkings, the last two collapsibles floated off as she sank.
Boring, long, dull narration, overly detailed with endless information that was uninformative and uninteresting. The female narrator sounded robotic, like she read from a teleprompter.
So many wrong takes in one paragraph. Hold the L