The History of the Overground - South London Line (SLL)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ส.ค. 2024
- Another day, another Overground Line. This is a brief History of the South London Line (SLL). From the early beginnings of the London, Chatham & Dover Railway to being used by the London Overground. It is now a critical route for South London.
Twitter: Ashley_Rabot
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Great video! Although...a very unique way to pronounce 'New Bermondsey'
And Dalston!
Good one ! Just to correct you there is another proposal for the reopening of Brixton Station on the South London Line tracks so it can create an interchange with the Victoria and Southeastern services.
This would make a lot of sense!
I think it’s been investigated, but the viaducts are too high and difficult to build on apparently
But I do find it silly that the London Overground passes right through the centre of Brixton without stopping. Even if building it went well over budget, the station would pay for itself
@@RS-pb2se I do find it silly aswell, but it's still on proposal stage so it's not fully dropped yet. Hopefully something can be figured out in the future for an Overground Brixton Station.
@@seancirillo6605 It's not needed so much to interchange with the existing Brixton station (or even the Victoria Line) but more to give Brixton itself better travel possibilities to Clapham Jct, Peckham, and the other places on the Overground - and of course all the additional places you can get to with one change; and of course to give the people in all those places a chance to visit Brixton (great for shopping and entertainment). So, why not build the station on the west side of Brixton Road, which looks easier?
@@RS-pb2se Clapham High Street could do with more services from Orpington etc actually stopping there, like additional platforms or routings. I know this might slow down services for other users but I think the additional interchange or direct services out of London are worth it, given the 8/15 min present SLL overground intervals are too distant and services crowded peak and really off peak too.
Dear Ashley,
Thank you very much for this video, which I just re-discovered! The animations are really excellent and a highlight of your overground videos. I lived near Denmark Hill in the 1980s and can confirm that the initial services on the Thames link route via the south London line originated from Cricklewood going to Sevenoaks via Catford loop. It is a shame that the northern platforms at Brixton which are actually on the south London line are closed. I believe this happened in 1916, as part of wartime economy measures. The line from Blackfriars towards Victoria via Loughborough Junction was used by trains from Ludgate Hill and Blackfriars until as late as 1929. I believe services used to run to Wimbledon via the connections to the London and south western lines at Clapham Junction. Finally, another future development may be easy reopening of the line to Battersea Park as a regular service to increase train frequency, as the south London line is now a victim of its own success. Thanks again!
Two important facts about the SLL.
The line was originally very lightly laid and is said to have been the reason for the introduction of the Stroudley Terrier locomotives in 1872
The line was the first south of London to be electrified, in 1909. This was with the overhead system adopted by the Brighton company. The intention was to electrify to Brighton and there were further extensions to Coulsdon. Overhead electrified lines lasted on the Southern Railway until about 1930. The original trains with flattened roof sections were still running into the 1950s.
This and other early London electrifications are worth a separate video.
Also worth a video or two are the problems of running busy London inner suburban services with steam, which continued until around 1960.
Southern do still operate a service from London Victoria to London Bridge, using parts of this line, but mainly over a different route
Yes, it was a complete and utter waste of time when I did it. Hint: Trans-Siberian it ain't.
A very long way round, via Clapham Juction and Balham to Crystal Palace, then Sydenham, and onto London Bridge via the main line through Forest Hill from there, trains call at all stations.
Yes, Thameslink did run a service down the Catford Loop line from 1988, trains initially starting at Cricklewood, then Luton, and running via Blackfriiars, Catford and Bromley, then via Swanley to Sevenoaks. This was later transferred to South Eastern and curtailed back to Blackfriiars though the service has been passed back to Thameslink more recently.
Catford is one of my local stations so I can confirm this. I believe there was also a point during the Southeastern operation where they used thameslink trains during the weekdays but Southeastern trains at the weekend which I found a bit odd.
Once again great video; I am addicted
Good video, appreciate all the effort you put into animating the lines on the map
With New Bermondsey station which is to be proposed. The new station would be located close or near to Millwall FC “The Den” stadium which could be closed during match days when Millwall are playing at home. And new housing development to be built at New Bermondsey.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Bermondsey_railway_station
When I first moved to the Clapham/Brixton area in 1979 the line was very unloved, with peak-hour services only; Clapham High Street station was even featured in the "Evening Standard" as one of the most revolting stations in London! But then something happened and the trains started running all day, every day - I think it was a half-hourly service. The buildings at Clapham High Street were sold off, and the station modernised, but unstaffed. I was working in Victoria for many years, and often came home on that line. And was sad enough to get up very early one Sunday morning in 2012 to catch the very first train from Clapham Junction to Highbury & Islington!
Aren't there plans for a station at Brixton for the Overground?
Are you sure that the proposal for a service from London Victoria to Bellingham is still active? The platform at Battersea Park was extended a few years ago and, in doing so, the link between between the South London Line and the line into Victoria was severed.
The former South London Line is now a terminus platform at Battersea Park.
From what I've read it's for a direct service, You can currently get there but need to swap at denmark hill. Maybe national rail is messing with me...
@@ashleyrabot Maybe the proposed service from Victoria is along the mainline (not calling at Battersea Pk) and turning off just N of the mainline platforms at Brixton (or maybe even rebuilding the disused branch-line platforms); that way there would be no need to cross over from the LBSC lines to the LCDR lines near Denmark Hill.
@@ricktownend9144: From what I remember that was roughly the plan for the Bellingham services. From the May 2018 timetable the Thameslink trains had a 20min gap in between some trains, and I think the Cinderella Line campaign mentioned that was as there were plans for another stopping service to provide a 10min frequency. (Don’t remember whether those just ran to Bellingham or further afield though...)
@@fetchstixRHD Yes, that strikes a chord in my memory! It's really quite unusual for stations as close to central London as Crofton Park, Catford and Bellingham to have only a half-hourly regular service; there's Acton Main Line - but that will get better when Crossrail starts up properly. The only other one I can think of is the (again) Thameslink Sutton service, south of Streatham (where it splits to serve two lines, each only getting a half-hourly service). Let's hope the Bellingham line gets its extra trains soon after Covid has retreated...
@@ricktownend9144 Yes, you can't get into Victoria from the SouthEastern side through Battersea Park Station any longer. One of the former through platforms there has had the track lifted completely, and the other has buffer stops at the northern end, which is where the Parliamentary Overground services run into to terminate.
Excellent video again. Thank you for fulfilling my request
Money for New Bermondsey was allocated in August 2019 from the Housing Infrastructure Fund.
Main future change for the route is the addition of an extra 2 trains per hour on the Overground which will happen once new trains are introduced on the North London Line, allowing the older trains to be transferred across to the East London Line.
Bellingham services were cancelled a long time ago due to the cut connection from the Atlantic lines to the Brighton Main Line at Battersea Park for 10 car platform extensions. It's been made up for with an more intensive Thameslink service, which was a better proposal anyway as it gives quicker and better access to Central London, more modern trains and doesn't have to cross from the Catfords to the Atlantics at Crofton Road Jn, making timetabling a whole lot easier.
Great topic, but are you sure about the early closure of East Brixton station? I seem to recall that it was still functioning into the 1960's. The LBSCR electric sets with overhead current collection introduced about 1909 also had a long life (after being converted to 3rd rail collection in the 1920's), and were still running well into the 1950's.
I think it's a mistake, the label on the map says 1976
Indeed you're both correct. The station closed in 1976, as opposed to me staying 1876 on the voiceover!
Yes, the LBSCR electric system was built in two segments, with WW1 intervening. When Southern was formed and took over the system in 1923, they had to let it be finished, at the same time putting in the equipment to convert it to third rail, which happened around 1929. Some of the sets with overhead current collection became class 2SL and ran on the Wimbledon-Croydon line through Beddington, now part of the Croydon Tramway. They were very distinctive, because the roofs over the cabs were flat, where the overhead power pickup had been. From memory, they were withdrawn about 1953.
I think the Thameslink didn't begin operation along this section until the late 00's early10's. Before that I remember Southeastern used to run a similar service from Sevenoaks which terminated at Blackfriars.
Great video anyway!
Services operated from Snow Hill to Orpington via Catford way before Thames link.
Thameslink - Luton to Orpington in 1988 or 89!
Very interesting and a great video
Just like roads, South London trains gets a poor deal compared with North London. The fragmentation of the South London Line and the much tidier North London Line (before it became part of the Overground) reflect the respective states of the South Circular Road and North Circular Road.
Nice video!!!!
New Bermondsey station already has the skeleton of the station in place on Surrey canal road. It just needs to be fitted out for use
Hi Ashley, East Brixton closed in 1976, not 1876, as you stated.
A station in Brixton is really needed. A high level station will be very expensive and need compulsory purchase orders/would have planning permission blocked (right to light, ruin my property value etc), so this could never happen unless the buildings around the station where the train passes over are demolished and rebuilt.
Then there is Brixton East, which could be linked to Brixton via OSI. There are, of course, no new developments to pay for this via S106 agreements so it hasn't been done.
There is always a short sightedness over closing lines/stations and also selling land for quick cash (e.g. spare track land along lines so now new parallel tracks can't be laid, useful tracks being closed and having the land sold off e.g. Palace lines are now to be tunnelled as part of crossrail 2 and there are more examples I cannot think of right now)
Brixton already had 2 stations as well as a shit ton bus bus services
Are you saying that Brixton is part of the South London line. Because that's wrong , Brixton is on the Southeastern Victoria to Orpington line.
What about the parliamentary from victoria to battersea park?
Thameslink ran through Catford to South Bromley in 1988. Not sure of the exact route.
Could you be confusing South Bromley (actually Bromley South) with South Bermondsey?
Bromley South u mean
And WHERE is 'New Brondesbury'?
You still pronounce Dalston incorrectly
At the time of writing this I came back from Jay foreman
First Comment!
**insert sad British empire noises**
@@thesalandarian3314 im your 100th subscriber.
@@andym2024 thank you.