I can understand you well. But the Erasmian harm goes beyond the issue of pronunciation alone. It has prevented Greek from being looked at holistically from antiquity to the present. The ramifications are too numerous to delineate here. -PZ
English grammar is simple, but English spelling and pronunciation can be taxing. Conversely, Greek grammar is very difficult (depending of course on one's background), but reading and pronouncing Greek is consistent and therefore simple. Pronouncing Greek is particularly easy for a Spanish-speaking person. -PZ
Γειά σου, Αλέξανδρε, και Καλή Χρονιά! Βρίσκεσαι στις ΗΠΑ ; Αν ναι, μπορεἰς να παραγγείλεις το βιβλίο αυτὀ μέσω PayPal. Παρακαλώ στείλε μόνο $15 στο NTGreek@att.net. (Ιδική έκπτωση!) Ευχαριστὠ. -ΦΖ Υ.Γ. Αν ενδιαφέρεσαι και σε άλλα απο τα βιβλία μου, παρακαλώ πήγαινε στο www.Greeklinguistics.net --ΦΖ
@@PhilemonZachariou I have been a part of a Christian Greek Church for 17 years. I have access to the Bible in Koine Greek. Koine and modern Greek is used on an ongoing bases at Church. I am struggling with some of the more difficult words.
Koine greek is used 2000 allmost years in the greek orthodox christian in all the says prays hymns readings. Erasmians never say when we ask them when we supposed change the way of how we said our language as greeks
That's right. Erasmians scholars prefer not to look at the Greek language holistically, or at least not beyond New Testament times (Byzantine and Neohellenic). At least the majority (if not virtually all) of them are more aware today that Erasmian is wrong! -PZ
Sorry for typo's. Blind in one eye and poor in other. Hard to see keyboard. I really do know how to spell! Published author and ironically, proof reader and collaborator on several theology texts. And Greek student for 60+ years. A most beautiful language. Whichever era!
Hello, friend. Go to my website, www.Greeklinguistics.net, and/or write me at NTGreek@att.net. I will make sure you get this book the simplest way. -PZ
@22:36ff What timeframe did the 14 Erasmian authors write their pronunciations? How did Erasmus learn Greek? Didn't any of his teachers ever hear the modern Greek of their time to know the actual vowel sounds, (diagraphs and diphthongs)? Would you mind doing an extended video on this subject?
Χαίρε, κύριε Ζαχαρίου. Ελπίζω ότι είστε πάρα πολύ καλά, σήμερα. I have a very important question, as a learner and potential teacher of the Greek language: According to Luke Ranieri, an excellent TH-cam content creator that you may be familiar with, phonemic vowel length is the most important characteristic to observe when pronouncing Ancient Greek, no matter which pronunciation is being utilized. What say you to this? Based on my understanding, phonemic vowel length dropped out rather early in Greek language's history (1st-2nd centuries AD), and since then educated Greeks have had no trouble learning and teaching the grammar of Homeric, Attic, or Koine with natural stress accent. Also, I am aware of the sound changes that led to so-called Modern pronunciation even in antiquity, although Luke Ranieri insists that the innovations in Classical Attic were supplanted by more conservative pronunciations in the form of the Hellenistic Koine. P.S: I've read parts of your book on this subject and have seen most of your videos on YT. Χάριν σοὶ οῖδα Α̣Π̣
Hello, Iberius, There is not a word in the whole classical literature about quantity, nothing about short, long, or common syllables or vowels. All these technical terms made their first appearance in late grammatical treatises in Greco-Roman (Hellenistic) times. All vowels and syllables orthophonically pronounced (e.g., in isolation) are isochronous “equally timed.” Granted, accented syllables in regular speech may be imperceptibly to noticeably longer and louder depending on the speaker’s intonational patterns, background, mood, or occasion. But that is not what quantity with respect to Classical Greek is all about. Vowel quantity in Attic Greek is a technicality of the art of metrical verse, not of ordinary speech. -PZ
@@PhilemonZachariouVery interesting answer. So not a single word about this in Classical Greek literature, then? So would you say Mr. Ranieri is mistaken when he insists on his website and in his videos that Ancient Greek grammar is "impossible" without phonemic vowel length? I mean, on the other hand he still presents evidence of iotacism and of loss of phonemic vowel length in Classical Attic in his "Vulgar Attic" video, and he is not ignorant of the same occuring in Palestinian Koine, as Benjamin Kantor has presented. So do you feel Ancient Greek having had phonemic vowel length and pitch accent has been a misinterpretation by philologists and that it NEVER existed in speech? I myself consider it irrelevant to my learning of Ancient Greek. I've been able to read a lot of Koine Greek with the historical pronunciation, namely The Gospel of John, without worrying about these things. What difference would it make with Attic or Homeric? Also, despite going back and forth on which pronunciation to utilize, I always settle on modern or historical pronunciation and I hope to not deviate from continuing my learning with this living pronunciation. It will always be a better alternative to Erasmian, for sure, and I personally promote the teaching and learning of Ancient Greek with the living pronunciation as it has been handed down through the centuries. A.P.
Iberius, Per the second part of your comments, I commend you for your resolve to pursue the historical Greek pronunciation (HGP), as it is a better alternative to Erasmian (or other concocted pronunciations of Greek). As for the first part of your comments, I will say this: The Athenians’ intense interest in perfecting the art of rhythm in metrical verse-the heartbeat of education in classical times-has apparently (mis)led many a Greek scholar to characterize Attic Greek as a flawless tonal tongue admirably filled with musical contours of metered long and short sounds, as though Attic Greek had been all poetry in song-and without a vernacular! It is no wonder that in sheer contradistinction to artistic Attic, the Attic vernacular, particularly at the colloquial level, was referred to as κοινή “common (tongue).” The HGP is closer to the phonemic sounds of Attic Greek, whether at the colloquial or the artistic level. But, again, there is no evidence that in the Attic vernacular vowel quantity, as today's scholars view it, existed. -PZ
@@PhilemonZachariouVery interesting answer. Sure to be hotly debated by philologists and such if presented by me on any academic or Ancient Greek platform. Χάριν σοὶ ἔχω, ὦ διδάσκαλε·
@@PhilemonZachariouI'd also like to humbly add a correction: Ancient Greek is posited to have had a pitch accent, not a tonal, system. So like Japanese rather than Chinese. So were the Romans mistaken when transliterating ω, ει η as long vowels?? Particularly η as ē? Can there not have been speakers that pronounced, say, ἡμέρα one way and others another way? One thing I will say: The fact that, thanks to scholars like Teodorsson and other textual evidence from Attic Greek authors themselves, we can know that phonemic vowel length and even pitch accent were dropped in common Attic Greek, as well as heavy ioticizing to the point of even ει merging with ι was taking place, makes me feel secure in adopting the living pronunciation and not deviating from it. If ioticizing and homophones, especially for inflected verbs, were not at all a problem in Attic speech, then I fail to see how it should be so for a Greek learner like myself. Perhaps you've heard of the hilarious τί σείει ὁ κύων; anecdote in Classical Attic literature (The author's name escapes me at the moment)?
The aspirate H is covered in my book, Reading and Pronouncing Biblical Greek: Historical Pronunciation versus Erasmian (Wipf & Stock Publishers, Aig. 10, 2021). It is partly covered in the abridged video (which you have apparently watched). A video on the development of H, particularly on its status in the classical period , may be worth considering. Thanks. -PZ
Your video deserve more views it is pure gold
Hello, Abraham, Thank you for your delightful comments! -PZ
Erasmian is what ancient greeks would call a barbarian language wtf it makes my ears bleed
I can understand you well. But the Erasmian harm goes beyond the issue of pronunciation alone. It has prevented Greek from being looked at holistically from antiquity to the present. The ramifications are too numerous to delineate here. -PZ
Nice work! Excellent and engaging summary of a fascinating book
Words deeply appreciated! -PZ
Σας ευχαριστούμε για τις προσπάθειές σας να εκπαιδεύσετε μη ελληνόφωνους. Είθε ο Κύριος να σας ευλογεί!
Σᾶς εύχαριστῶ θερμἀ. -ΦΖ
@@PhilemonZachariou Παρακαλώ
You are right, i'm a native Spanish speaker and learning english is difficult for us cause the letters change it's pronunciation all the time
English grammar is simple, but English spelling and pronunciation can be taxing. Conversely, Greek grammar is very difficult (depending of course on one's background), but reading and pronouncing Greek is consistent and therefore simple. Pronouncing Greek is particularly easy for a Spanish-speaking person. -PZ
Εξαιρετικη δουλεια !! Συγχαρητήρια!! Που μπορούμε να βρούμε τα βιβλια ;;
Γειά σου, Αλέξανδρε, και Καλή Χρονιά! Βρίσκεσαι στις ΗΠΑ ; Αν ναι, μπορεἰς να παραγγείλεις το βιβλίο αυτὀ μέσω PayPal. Παρακαλώ στείλε μόνο $15 στο NTGreek@att.net. (Ιδική έκπτωση!) Ευχαριστὠ. -ΦΖ
Υ.Γ. Αν ενδιαφέρεσαι και σε άλλα απο τα βιβλία μου, παρακαλώ πήγαινε στο www.Greeklinguistics.net
--ΦΖ
I purchased the digital version of your book a few weeks ago on Amazon. Very informative , thank you!
Awesome, thank you! -PZ
@@PhilemonZachariou very helpful with my studies Sir!
What type of studies? ( NTGreek@att.net )
@@PhilemonZachariou I have been a part of a Christian Greek Church for 17 years. I have access to the Bible in Koine Greek. Koine and modern Greek is used on an ongoing bases at Church. I am struggling with some of the more difficult words.
@@PhilemonZachariou thank you Sir, May your reward be great! Are you from Greece or Cyprus? God bless you!
Koine greek is used 2000 allmost years in the greek orthodox christian in all the says prays hymns readings. Erasmians never say when we ask them when we supposed change the way of how we said our language as greeks
That's right. Erasmians scholars prefer not to look at the Greek language holistically, or at least not beyond New Testament times (Byzantine and Neohellenic). At least the majority (if not virtually all) of them are more aware today that Erasmian is wrong! -PZ
Sorry for typo's. Blind in one eye and poor in other. Hard to see keyboard. I really do know how to spell! Published author and ironically, proof reader and collaborator on several theology texts. And Greek student for 60+ years. A most beautiful language. Whichever era!
A profoundly touching expression! -PZ
I gonna buy your book 🇬🇷📖
Hello, friend. Go to my website, www.Greeklinguistics.net, and/or write me at NTGreek@att.net. I will make sure you get this book the simplest way. -PZ
@22:36ff What timeframe did the 14 Erasmian authors write their pronunciations? How did Erasmus learn Greek? Didn't any of his teachers ever hear the modern Greek of their time to know the actual vowel sounds, (diagraphs and diphthongs)? Would you mind doing an extended video on this subject?
Good point, my friend. Your suggestion is seriously considered. -PZ
Χαίρε, κύριε Ζαχαρίου. Ελπίζω ότι είστε πάρα πολύ καλά, σήμερα. I have a very important question, as a learner and potential teacher of the Greek language: According to Luke Ranieri, an excellent TH-cam content creator that you may be familiar with, phonemic vowel length is the most important characteristic to observe when pronouncing Ancient Greek, no matter which pronunciation is being utilized. What say you to this? Based on my understanding, phonemic vowel length dropped out rather early in Greek language's history (1st-2nd centuries AD), and since then educated Greeks have had no trouble learning and teaching the grammar of Homeric, Attic, or Koine with natural stress accent. Also, I am aware of the sound changes that led to so-called Modern pronunciation even in antiquity, although Luke Ranieri insists that the innovations in Classical Attic were supplanted by more conservative pronunciations in the form of the Hellenistic Koine.
P.S: I've read parts of your book on this subject and have seen most of your videos on YT.
Χάριν σοὶ οῖδα
Α̣Π̣
Hello, Iberius, There is not a word in the whole classical literature about quantity, nothing about short, long, or common syllables or vowels. All these technical terms made their first appearance in late grammatical treatises in Greco-Roman (Hellenistic) times. All vowels and syllables orthophonically pronounced (e.g., in isolation) are isochronous “equally timed.” Granted, accented syllables in regular speech may be imperceptibly to noticeably longer and louder depending on the speaker’s intonational patterns, background, mood, or occasion. But that is not what quantity with respect to Classical Greek is all about. Vowel quantity in Attic Greek is a technicality of the art of metrical verse, not of ordinary speech. -PZ
@@PhilemonZachariouVery interesting answer. So not a single word about this in Classical Greek literature, then? So would you say Mr. Ranieri is mistaken when he insists on his website and in his videos that Ancient Greek grammar is "impossible" without phonemic vowel length? I mean, on the other hand he still presents evidence of iotacism and of loss of phonemic vowel length in Classical Attic in his "Vulgar Attic" video, and he is not ignorant of the same occuring in Palestinian Koine, as Benjamin Kantor has presented. So do you feel Ancient Greek having had phonemic vowel length and pitch accent has been a misinterpretation by philologists and that it NEVER existed in speech?
I myself consider it irrelevant to my learning of Ancient Greek. I've been able to read a lot of Koine Greek with the historical pronunciation, namely The Gospel of John, without worrying about these things. What difference would it make with Attic or Homeric? Also, despite going back and forth on which pronunciation to utilize, I always settle on modern or historical pronunciation and I hope to not deviate from continuing my learning with this living pronunciation. It will always be a better alternative to Erasmian, for sure, and I personally promote the teaching and learning of Ancient Greek with the living pronunciation as it has been handed down through the centuries.
A.P.
Iberius, Per the second part of your comments, I commend you for your resolve to pursue the historical Greek pronunciation (HGP), as it is a better alternative to Erasmian (or other concocted pronunciations of Greek). As for the first part of your comments, I will say this: The Athenians’ intense interest in perfecting the art of rhythm in metrical verse-the heartbeat of education in classical times-has apparently (mis)led many a Greek scholar to characterize Attic Greek as a flawless tonal tongue admirably filled with musical contours of metered long and short sounds, as though Attic Greek had been all poetry in song-and without a vernacular! It is no wonder that in sheer contradistinction to artistic Attic, the Attic vernacular, particularly at the colloquial level, was referred to as κοινή “common (tongue).” The HGP is closer to the phonemic sounds of Attic Greek, whether at the colloquial or the artistic level. But, again, there is no evidence that in the Attic vernacular vowel quantity, as today's scholars view it, existed. -PZ
@@PhilemonZachariouVery interesting answer. Sure to be hotly debated by philologists and such if presented by me on any academic or Ancient Greek platform. Χάριν σοὶ ἔχω, ὦ διδάσκαλε·
@@PhilemonZachariouI'd also like to humbly add a correction: Ancient Greek is posited to have had a pitch accent, not a tonal, system. So like Japanese rather than Chinese.
So were the Romans mistaken when transliterating ω, ει η as long vowels?? Particularly η as ē? Can there not have been speakers that pronounced, say, ἡμέρα one way and others another way?
One thing I will say: The fact that, thanks to scholars like Teodorsson and other textual evidence from Attic Greek authors themselves, we can know that phonemic vowel length and even pitch accent were dropped in common Attic Greek, as well as heavy ioticizing to the point of even ει merging with ι was taking place, makes me feel secure in adopting the living pronunciation and not deviating from it. If ioticizing and homophones, especially for inflected verbs, were not at all a problem in Attic speech, then I fail to see how it should be so for a Greek learner like myself. Perhaps you've heard of the hilarious τί σείει ὁ κύων; anecdote in Classical Attic literature (The author's name escapes me at the moment)?
I have book wsh your text books were not out of print. Thanks 🙏
Thank you. I hope many will get to read it. -PZ
This is the closser we can get to the Greek Jesus use to speak with the gentiles
That's right, Gabriel. -PZ
I bought your book. It's really amazing.
Good-sounding news, Robert. Thank you! -PZ
@16:49ff, did the ancient Greeks use the aspirate sound ("H") sound or is it a myth? Do you cover this in some detail?
The aspirate H is covered in my book, Reading and Pronouncing Biblical Greek: Historical Pronunciation versus Erasmian (Wipf & Stock Publishers, Aig. 10, 2021). It is partly covered in the abridged video (which you have apparently watched). A video on the development of H, particularly on its status in the classical period , may be worth considering. Thanks. -PZ
Ryan, please check my latest video on the Aspirate H, h. It was released a few days ago: "GREEK PRONUNCIATION 12 (Aspirate H, h)".
Εξαιρετικό το βίντεό σας. Εξαιρετικό και διαφωτιστικό. Μπράβο!
Σας ευχαριστώ πολύ! -ΦΖ
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
The Erasmian pronunciation deserves mockery and ridicule. It's pure nonsense. Thank you Dr for the video.
You are welcome! -PZ
@11:39 onward (especially Omicron and Omega) seems like good proof that the sounds have not changed.
Quite true, isn't it? -PZ
Επιτέλους!
Καταλαβαίνω, φίλε. Ευχαριστώ! -ΦΖ