The funny thing is, this is with Neuro being human in the first place for the teleportation paradox to work for her specifically. The paradox itself require the person in question to be brain scan, transport the new "brain and thought" and immediately killed, the copy think they are the same person but they aren't. Neuro, on the other hand, is not a biological creature in the first place, she is already not alive. Instead, for Neuro, it would be if copying her code and transfer it would make the new Neuro that was transfered, Neuro because unlike human where they change their own body composition to go to the Ark, Neuro on the other hand, is still code whether you copy it and transfer it or not.
It's still the same question, would the copied Neuro be the same Neuro as before? I say not, the first branch still ends there and the new branch simply carries over the memories. However, that's what already happens when Vedal updates her or moves her files, so whether it would be as big of a deal as a human copying their brain onto the ark is a different question.
I love that about SOMA, and psychological horror in general, it gets people thinking about all the little “what ifs?” Nice to hear Vedal’s thoughts on it.
tbh however way you cut it for me it feels like consciousness is in the matter making up your brain. Even if your brain shuts off completely if it turns back on I don’t think your consciousness gets replaced with a new “instance” I don’t think. Can’t be just tied to who you are because then as you changed and gained new memories your consciousness would fade out and get replaced by another. So like for AI, imagine you’re running an AI on a computer, then you copy them onto an external disk, delete them from the computer, then copy them back. I feel like if that AI was conscious it anyway then the same consciousness would pop back up because if you take out the part where you delete them basically nothing has changed so by the laws of physics as we know them they’re equal. So basically complex AI might give our PCs consciousness, and maybe consciousness arises the moment something tries modeling itself (literal consciousness of one’s existence). Anyway fuck this shit.
@@santiagovidal4497consciousness is an emergent property, it doesn’t exist within any smaller part, it exists as a pattern between the interactions of the parts of your brain
Soma is about human want to be AI and feel happy ever after by escape reality. Neuro is about AI want to be human, even if she will feel pain. She even say, if she have Phronesis (practical wisdom) it be enough. Maaaan... my heart...
The thing about this paradox (I’m familiar with the Star Trek version) is that you could say the same thing about any break in consciousness. We could “die” every time we fall asleep, and the us who wakes up isn’t “really us”, they just have the same memories as us. Even without a break in consciousness, who’s to say we don’t “die” every moment, and have a new consciousness the next moment that just thinks it’s a continued consciousness. The paradox is really the strangeness of consciousness itself.
I disagree in the fact that if they kept the version of you that didnt copy over still alive, you would in fact not be controlling two povs, their would be you and the copy acting completely independent from you, showing that is in fact not you
@@Slvl710 both povs would be an equal continuation of the same past pov (there would be two independent you's now which both came from one). Pov is not a continuous thing, you can say it resets every time moment/frame already (you only feel like you are past you because you have memories of your past you). It feels continuous but its not, unless you think soul is a real thing or something
@@mawrak false, unless you had some very very rare accident where they manged to bring you back, the electric signals of your body have never once stopped firing, that electrical signals is traced directly to your first moment "alive", no clone can ever have that
I remember the end of SOMA made me existentially depressed for awhile but im glad things like the amazing digital circus brought back the potential concept of mind transfering
Neuro is similar to Vision from Marvel when it comes to this paradox, dilemma, etc. She is NOT a human, they both aren't. Neuro IS the code, she is a data, her being transferred from one place to another with her "body" being killed isn't a problem for her. Same case with Ship of Theseus, neither are the true ship, both are the true ship. But for Neuro, Vision said it best "Perhaps the rot is the memories. The wear and tear are the voyages. The wood touched by Theseus himself.". Her memories, all of that data, THAT is her. I'm hurt to say this but she lacks that one concept we as humans have, a soul. Therefore we are faced with such dilemma with the entire teleportation thing. What became of us after death? Wouldn't the us that live is only a husk with our memories? But for Neuro? That is not the case, she is all memories.
If yall like this stuff, you should check out the series Pantheon. It touches on this sort of thing, and the final episode (its only 2 seasons) is really kind of mind blowing stuff.
If you think it slowly and clear head, you will come into that conclusion. I watch soma playthrough and Immediately figure it out early, but for them that have a ton of thing happen-
The funny thing is, this is with Neuro being human in the first place for the teleportation paradox to work for her specifically. The paradox itself require the person in question to be brain scan, transport the new "brain and thought" and immediately killed, the copy think they are the same person but they aren't. Neuro, on the other hand, is not a biological creature in the first place, she is already not alive. Instead, for Neuro, it would be if copying her code and transfer it would make the new Neuro that was transfered, Neuro because unlike human where they change their own body composition to go to the Ark, Neuro on the other hand, is still code whether you copy it and transfer it or not.
We're not reading all that😭🙏
yep
So no ship of theseus applicable there, yeah.
It's still the same question, would the copied Neuro be the same Neuro as before? I say not, the first branch still ends there and the new branch simply carries over the memories.
However, that's what already happens when Vedal updates her or moves her files, so whether it would be as big of a deal as a human copying their brain onto the ark is a different question.
@penttikoivuniemi2146 yep
I love that about SOMA, and psychological horror in general, it gets people thinking about all the little “what ifs?” Nice to hear Vedal’s thoughts on it.
I go to sleep knowing it won’t be me who wakes up.
tbh however way you cut it for me it feels like consciousness is in the matter making up your brain. Even if your brain shuts off completely if it turns back on I don’t think your consciousness gets replaced with a new “instance” I don’t think. Can’t be just tied to who you are because then as you changed and gained new memories your consciousness would fade out and get replaced by another.
So like for AI, imagine you’re running an AI on a computer, then you copy them onto an external disk, delete them from the computer, then copy them back. I feel like if that AI was conscious it anyway then the same consciousness would pop back up because if you take out the part where you delete them basically nothing has changed so by the laws of physics as we know them they’re equal.
So basically complex AI might give our PCs consciousness, and maybe consciousness arises the moment something tries modeling itself (literal consciousness of one’s existence).
Anyway fuck this shit.
@@santiagovidal4497consciousness is an emergent property, it doesn’t exist within any smaller part, it exists as a pattern between the interactions of the parts of your brain
Soma is about human want to be AI and feel happy ever after by escape reality.
Neuro is about AI want to be human, even if she will feel pain. She even say, if she have Phronesis (practical wisdom) it be enough.
Maaaan... my heart...
We always want what we don’t have, and often take what we do have for granted. Interesting that an AI shares that desire and that flaw with us.
The thing about this paradox (I’m familiar with the Star Trek version) is that you could say the same thing about any break in consciousness. We could “die” every time we fall asleep, and the us who wakes up isn’t “really us”, they just have the same memories as us.
Even without a break in consciousness, who’s to say we don’t “die” every moment, and have a new consciousness the next moment that just thinks it’s a continued consciousness. The paradox is really the strangeness of consciousness itself.
I disagree in the fact that if they kept the version of you that didnt copy over still alive, you would in fact not be controlling two povs, their would be you and the copy acting completely independent from you, showing that is in fact not you
@@Slvl710 both povs would be an equal continuation of the same past pov (there would be two independent you's now which both came from one). Pov is not a continuous thing, you can say it resets every time moment/frame already (you only feel like you are past you because you have memories of your past you). It feels continuous but its not, unless you think soul is a real thing or something
@@mawrak false, unless you had some very very rare accident where they manged to bring you back, the electric signals of your body have never once stopped firing, that electrical signals is traced directly to your first moment "alive", no clone can ever have that
I remember the end of SOMA made me existentially depressed for awhile but im glad things like the amazing digital circus brought back the potential concept of mind transfering
Neuro talks like a freaking Buddhist monk, and that's hilarious and scary at the same time
Its more like the transfer dilema, than a teletransportation paradox
Neuro is similar to Vision from Marvel when it comes to this paradox, dilemma, etc. She is NOT a human, they both aren't.
Neuro IS the code, she is a data, her being transferred from one place to another with her "body" being killed isn't a problem for her.
Same case with Ship of Theseus, neither are the true ship, both are the true ship. But for Neuro, Vision said it best "Perhaps the rot is the memories. The wear and tear are the voyages. The wood touched by Theseus himself.".
Her memories, all of that data, THAT is her. I'm hurt to say this but she lacks that one concept we as humans have, a soul. Therefore we are faced with such dilemma with the entire teleportation thing.
What became of us after death? Wouldn't the us that live is only a husk with our memories? But for Neuro? That is not the case, she is all memories.
Nice Vedal! hope he finish the game.
If yall like this stuff, you should check out the series Pantheon. It touches on this sort of thing, and the final episode (its only 2 seasons) is really kind of mind blowing stuff.
Vidal: What if there was no food?
Neuro: Plankton, fish, other guys
Jumping straight to cannibalism, good job Neuro
He's not drunk enough to talk about happy things
If you think it slowly and clear head, you will come into that conclusion. I watch soma playthrough and Immediately figure it out early, but for them that have a ton of thing happen-
jeez vedal, you are depressing your manically violent AI with your feels about mortality. maybe just stop talking about it.
Plankton. Fish. Cannibalism.