lina simply does not need to have centaur warrunner's stun on a 7s cooldown at 625 cast range or 670 base attack range or 2 moon shards passively or a 350 health talent or a 900 magic damage nuke or a 20 right-click damage talent at level 10 or permanent 550 movespeed or the ability to get full stacks with 1 spell cast or the ability to refresh full stacks by only hitting 1 unit with 1 spell
what makes her broken is how she can transition from magic nuker in early game to a right clicker late game. if either her early game or late game gets a bit nerfed, she'll be balanced
@lalfakzualahnamte2021 really? Because nobody is playing her as a nuker in early game dude, they are playing her as a sniper with 1000000 attack speed and ms and a stun
@@lalfakzualahnamte2021 with all due respect, the build for her rn is max passive so you just need a falcon blade to have enough mana to cast spells and hit hit hit hit hit so yeah
Made a patch where Jenkins A. Has to talk about carry pudge B. Is leaving out carries like Riki and legion commander C. Has an existential crisis with Lina and turns into "And you have to say that you're fine but you're not..." meme. Just give us a tank carry patch and restore this man's sanity.
Riki is a support this patch, so not really considered a carry. If he was on the carry tier list he'd probably be in the grief tier by virtue of preventing your support from picking him.
@@Colopty you need the best supports in the world to play carry riki or LC and enjoy/win. it's impossble to use riki by it's original designation of support remover 2000 without it having like 20k farm. even in low mmrs people know how to counter riki big time easy.
7.32d Lina is a blight on this world. We should have seen the signs. 2 months ago when the mediocre Lina mid with only bkb + shadow blade was out-manfighting carries, "this seems kinda bullshit..." Little did we know the horrors that were in store for us.
Wdym by two months ago lol, the trend already seems to started when T1 Karl started to spam Lina mid rush BKB in 15 minutes mark and then going full right click build and got big winrate in TI 10, the hero is simply disgusting
They changed how Fiery work. Back than you need use all spells to have max fiery souls. Now you just need slave one creep waves to have max fiery. Early Lina game is so damn stupid strong with semi permanent 290 atk spd.
@@deadmagnet6318 There is no jungle in DotA. A stack of ancients gives less gold and xp than 1 normal wave of lane creeps. Jungle will never be viable in DotA.
The further problem with lina is you can't counter her with Dark Seer because her summoned illusions won't inherit the 7 stacks of fiery souls. So her illusion version is so weak you can't kill her with it.
@@davidbock6276 i completely agree with this fiery souls should be dispellable like jingu is can be dispelled et spirit can be its not even her ukt and yet it cant be dispelled which i don’t understand
I've been having success with arc so far My build is midas gleipnir octarine str blink hex then sell midas for aghanim/dagon/windwaker Gleipnir str blink 1 shots waves and provides so much control in teamfights and double hex is very good late game If not hard countered highground defense is always strong enough to go late game Gleipnir should be nerfed next patch, every strong hero rn builds gleipnir rn
@@guydudemanson2551 too bad the hero not worked pretty well in pro scene LUL, his power spike is pretty long compared to another meta heroes atm, also pretty weak in laning stage too, might as well just pick Spectre instead lul
Love the video but I gotta say, I still love to play arc after the patch and I think he still is broken, the nerf he mentioned at 9:41 is only for the secondary wraith from the aghs. This means that after arc gets aghs the first wraith he puts down still lasts for 45s and if someone walks into it, it summons another wraith that only lasts 15s. That may seem like a big difference but typically if you are going to use the second wraith you would end up using it within 15s. Normally you will have your main and your clone there so you toss out 2 wraiths, first wraith slows them then respawns another and while the second wraith is slowing you so you don’t really need the extra 30 seconds. Overall I feel like that nerf has very little effect on arc.
Le me who carries the game with a Night stalker and Dawn breaker. Night stalker this patch is godly. With shard you never go to base, And his ultimate his free vision, dota is game of vision and countering opponent moves.
The picture of BSJ...LOL. I can see you really went through the trouble to look for the weirdest picture of him you could find without making it obscene. That is an art form
My issue with naga is that she, in pubs especially, is extremely toxic to play against. You pretty much have to pick a hero that can keep her in a box early game and make sure she doesn't get farm, or else you end up trying to deal with illusions pushing every lane and farming every camp at the same time. I prefer fighting meepo, honestly.
this is a 1.5k take, but as a arc spammer, i find all of the arc builds to be situational. much like invoker, he is a very adaptive hero and in theory, he should have a high winrate. the reason people fail with him is because they prob dont push their limits with him. a very well rounded build that offers both self saves, catch, reach, and damage is : midas(some games. u may need maelstrom for teamfights/dmg first and max bubble) -> maelstrom(if game is hard or can not go late for any reason, you can be a defusal manta hero. your clone will do the full damage of defusal and lets u team fight early and get many kills) -> bots(if the game is tough, getting bots could just put you 2k behind. only get fast/rush if there are sidelanes to push and enemy is 5 manning down lanes to help split them up) -> glepneir(only if game is easy, no need for escapes/saves, absolutely need catch else get force or shadow blade first) -> force/pike -> bkb(you really should not need bkb unless the game is unplayable without it; arc is a hero that can easily survive jump and ganks if he positions well, uses sparks for vision(they show if an invis/smoked hero gets hit by it) and fights with his clone and supports with main hero if game is hard) -> silver edge(only if hex is not needed, else go a shadow blade straight into hex/bloodthorne) -> hex(gives arc a reliable 7 second hex that lets him kill people with almost 1k dps. can be swapped for bloodthorne if enemy does not have bkbs or dispels and wont be going those items fast ) -> sell midas into either more dmg/tank/ahgs/save (items like mkb, bloodthorne, AC, skadi, eblade, linkens(remember u get 2 of these, lets u put the clone's linkens on main hero), or even windwaker could be viable) -> buy moonshards if game goes ultra late and if you have 5k surpluss on buy back, buy for your other right click cores too and share. this is my list of items to go, sometimes i will go straight magic build and fight with magic build instead of defusal manta build and there are other play styles like arc with blink and the likes. the play style is, save clone for fighting if you are with team on main hero. if nothing is happening, and your main is jungling safe, split with clone. you can pick off with this build very easily, thx to shadow hex combo. u can save your self from stuns if your main is stunned but your clone is not with force/pike + bubble and right clicks with clone. again you just have to watch pro arc players play and learn when they go what style and WHY they do it. spam him in both easy and hard match ups to learn what to do slowly. be patient and play your own game. make sure to have control groups for arc warden otherwise it could be hard to play; 1 KEY = hero, 2 KEY = clone, 3 KEY = hero + clone, 4 KEY = manta/illusions, 5 KEY = all units, 6 KEY = all units except hero. also make sure you have a way of tabbing through your units to do easy combos: Qm Rm TAB Qc Ec Wc TAB Em TAB Ec TAB Wm Em (c = clone, m = main hero). arc is only as hard as you want him to be and as strong as u want him to be. have fun making both the enemy and your team hate you.
His best build involves forcing rotations to save someone getting owned by an illusion while the main afk farms. Magic build with strength blink, gliep, hex/dagon is just so strong because it doesn't suffer from the distance penalties of attack damage reduction. He's pretty bad because a right click build will force him to fight with the main arc, and he can die easy when jumped. This forces a magic build which makes him weak early and ultra late game. If you don't snowball midgame and end he can fall off pretty fast.
@@polo619652 i feel like playing him like a lone druid with ahgs just makes him weaker, he ultimatly is 2 heros and even if there is a riki and lc on the enemy team hunting u, if u position right and have the right wards and sparks, u dont get jump easly. the snowball aspect of his magic build is what makes it hard to play in lower ranks. thus i recomend the scaling right click build 2000 units is prety far and u can play safe with your main easily with a little micro work. both builds are valid depending on the game and drafts.
@@2wheels2 don't gamble yourself with arc, because once you lose the lane it's hard to get back lol. 4k here and arc warden is either a useless hero or a broken hero in the game, there's no inbetween. One of the reasons I hate AM and arc warden pickers, they fall behind so quickly that I have to watch their lane if the enemies use smoke or the mid ganked.
@@deathtoinfidelsdeusvult2184 all heros will struggle in a lost lane; catching up and reobtaining map control. also, i did forget to mention i recommend arc as a pos 1 and less so a pos 2. in the side lanes, he is strong aswell. he does feel lackluster if your team does not have teamfight though. if your arc wardens are not winning lane, unless it is againts a staple lane dom like viper, sf, unit heros, etc., i would say he can win most lanes with spark wraith and bubble or flux and bubble.
7.32d lina is honestly one of the most broken heroes I’ve seen in dota in a while. Hero doesn’t lose lane, has extremely low cd high damage kill threat with shadow blade and can out man fight virtually any hero when she gets satanic. Picked a good time to take a break from dota because seeing her in dpc is absolutely vile, surprised teams are even letting her through the first phase
At least there are another meta hero which have chance to counter Lina like Tuskar, Marci or even the cancer Riki sleeping dart combo, that's why Lina isn't the hero with biggest winrate in almost every DPC region (you can see the stat in Liquipedia), but she is still a ridiculously strong hero in this patch, and one of most contestable hero in pro scene too
See kids? In my old days, when shit like 7.32d Lina happened, we just spammed Techies and instakilled her over and over again for picking broken heroes. It did not matter if we won, or lost, as long as we made that Lina spammer commit suicide IRL. Now we can't do even that and we are stuck in this hellhole.
hey jenkins, can you make a tierlist for herald players and lowest elo possible? or maybe for climbing a little in ladder :D I listen to those reasons of tiers, good and alll buuut those never apply to low elo xd low elo matches decided by who has that 1 smurf on team or maybe who has not fighting each other in chat :D
Thank you Jenkins, I don't know if you saw my comment in one of your other tiers in which I asked you to do a Tier for pos 1, but I was hoping for one as crazy. Don't stop making tiers man, I love them and your approach.
I’ve played 2 games of Riki Carey against Lina carry and I won both of em, I did comeback both of them but the build was diffu, shard, bkb, bashed once I hit the shard diffu timming Lina could not 1v1 , silence no mana no stacks no fight the only problem was it was so slow getting farm and Lina was farming so fast but in a straight fight I was able to pick her off multiple times on side lanes and by herself
The problem is, Lina almost in all matches goes for Gleipnir, number one counter item for riki, then bkb, number two counter item for riki and if it wasn't enough, she goes also satanic and might go mkb as well to counter your smoke without bkb, so riki isn't really way how to counter that shit. She farms way too fast and outfarms every single carry even with bad lane.
Maelstorm PA is somewhat viable btw. I won quite a few games with it when I saw that we'll be forced to fight early. The lightning proc daggers be nasty on those supps early game. :D
I was telling a friend many months ago that if they notice it, Lina has generally only recieved BUFFED for the past 10 years of patches. Now it's happening guys.
the best luna build i have seen so far is aghs rush insto standard luna carry build. teh shard gives you so much absurd free dmg. is half a rapier every ult for free.
Just adding my bit to the huge pile of examples of how broken Lina is - I've played a bit of mid Lina few weeks ago, but never actually got to try her as pos 1 until this week. I played one game (mostly because my usual carries got banned) and right as it started I realised that the taskbar is blocking the bottom part of my screen, including the entire backpack etc. This threw me off quite a bit and caused me to accidentally fill it with neutral items that I instinctively picked up. xD Bottom line is: I was pretty distracted and probably played at like 30% of my normal efficiency, but the game was still pretty easy to win, I got a bunch of kills, 20k building damage etc. As long as you can keep your stacks up, you will win. Simple.
Gonna go play a couple of am matches with browns into battle f into travels and pushing lanes everywhere all the time and report back on how it feels. That strat of being a super aggressive rat that does go into fights even if you only have bf usually throws enemy teams of balance since an antimage that goes into hyper push all lane overdrive and kites them in teamfights from the back early is not something you see too often. And for those who say treads are the way to go, go to sleep grandpa, you have to farm your life away tomorow.
I return with an inconclusive report since am got banned 3 time and the last match where i got him my drow and Sand king went dual mid cussing each other out. Will have to properly try it tomorrow.
Every year n a half or so I get back into dota n I pretty much play Troll Warlord because I know how to play it well at times n don't have time to put into other heros so to me TW will always be top tier 🤘🏻 😈
@@abdumalikshukurov9241 you are watching a niche jenkins video, but dont know that jenkins team mate bsj built diffu manta pa in a pro game the other day and they lost the game
As main Lina mid player i suggest you to pick Sniper vs her in lane: 1) more damage than Lina 2) more range than Lina 3) Shadow blade Lina isn't meta, so no way for her to sneak up and kill you. 4) if you survive laning stage, Lina must fn gank and that sucks, because its Falcon blade meta not BoT. 5) you will outcarry her min 35+, no doubt about that. If you even the lane with Lina you are winning. Its Falcon Blade that makes her OP. Goddamnit it's 1100 gold full item and it's 550 gold to have SOLID damage with blades of attack. We need nerf for that moronic OP item.
ad 3) & 4) You do realise that just because some item isn't "meta", it doesn't mean it can't be used in a specific game, where it works better than the "meta" item? Maybe it's not exactly what you meant (no way for me to know that), but the way you phrased it, it's rather stupid ("hero A wins vs hero B, because hero B would need an item X to win and that item isn't meta"). You don't always buy meta items - you buy the items that you think are needed to win. Not to mention that "meta" doesn't fully apply to lower ranks etc. (e.g. SB is traditionally way better at lower MMR, because people are worse at using wards and dust - I usually went for SB on mid Lina and just made sure to kill enemy sentries around mid, which most enemies didn't respond to well enough).
@@randomguy6822 I didn't say item isn't meta - shadow blade Lina isn't something that works like it worked previously. This patch is almost impossible to go shadow blade on here without Falcon Blade. The point i was trying to make is that she is stupidly overpowered because you don't even need to make Falcon blade but just to buy Blades of attack and to harass enemies until they are out of lane or dead. That can also be done with Sniper on safe lane too, i tried and stomped some Divine 3 games. Its 1100 gold item - THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Nerf her safe lane potential and leave her mid lane as she should be. Also i hope that they nerf Templar Assassin safe lane too, her W with 25 mana cost is just what it is - unbalanced stupidity.
Lina's stacks need to fall off one at a time instead of all 7 being maintained by clipping 1 hero. If you clip one hero the other 6 stacks should time out. That would help a lot I think
Lifestealer can counter Nature's or people who try to pin him down using his Aghs upgrade. He also destroys Lina with some real dmg combined with Aghs. He's way better than C tier and I'm astounded you don't realize it.
Lifestealer is an out-sustain kind of fighter. Lina needs to be nuked down or controlled, otherwise she WILL kill you in a few seconds. If you try to just go at her as Lifestealer with Rage, you won't even reach melee. And even if you blink on her, you simply don't have the nuke potential to take her down quickly enough. Also, she farms way faster and will have better items - good luck ever killing Lina with Satanic as LS...
Yeah Lina just goddamn broken. Before this patch, Lina mid can slave mid small neutral camp to keep fiery buff up. I had like 80% winrate with Lina mid.
Out of curiosity - how do you get any reasonable farm with this build? It doesn't really make you more survivable to be able to safely farm lanes and Sabre doesn't speed up jungling by a lot for quick-attacking AGI heroes. And even with Sabre + Basher, you're not exactly a hero who wants to fight early and get your gold from enemies... I'm genuinely asking, because I've found PA almost unplayable lately, since you don't farm quickly/safely enough in the early game to get your items before the enemy takes control of the map, which makes you rely too much on your team holding the line for you.
is there even a next tier list because jenkins just covered all the roles maybe on the next patch or maybe make an item tier list for supports, carries, and offlane that would be good.
Surprised to see no honorable mention for DK. I suppose he's better as a mid but my god that hero can cheese wins with that agha manta octarine Sometimes you just lose because you actually can't stop him from just slowsieging towers with illus. It's demoralizing.
Like it's such a simple fix for lina: just make her shard give AS and make the ability give spell amp. Done, hero not dead, shit early game as a carry. Shit late game as a mid.
Where is tiny? Great lane, super fast farm and really high damage to both heroes and towers. Depending on the game he can solo kill most of the heroes. Would say A tier or B tier at least. Thoughts?
1 Mason 2 Gork 3 Bsj (especially when Mason is not online) 4 Ephey especially when she talks with the offlaner of the other team 5 Arteezy especially cause he is a pro player 6 Dendi especially when he decide to stop playng dota2 7 Twitch visualization doesn't mean value, and Bsj is a god Jenkins
Sniper as always been a trash carry. Sniper is good mid. The Headshot+take aim combo just does so much damage at lvl 7 and at lvl 10. I've been getting a dagger on him recently and it's pretty dope.
@@OlderThanTime09 Low MMR games often play out completely differently than pro matches or even just decently high ranks. For example some of the best offlaners this patch are almost never picked in Herald etc., because nobody can play them well... Supports are also generally worse at buying wards and dust (which makes invis heroes stronger) or even just, well, supporting their carry (which makes more versatile/self-sufficient carries stronger). The tempo of the game is also much slower, which impacts a lot of heroes in complex ways that I'm way too noob to describe or even properly understand.
14:48 we all know who he was talking about... like we just all knew cockva was the one who gets off to this shit, and ive played LD all day... i kinda get it but jeez
now that Jenkins has made a tier list for all roles in 7.32d, we are hopefully getting a new patch
no new patch before the Lima major, hope we get it before but... what are the chances
yeah maybe a couple weeks after the major
Nope can’t get new patch cause he didn’t make one for offlane
He made one for 7.32c not 7.32d
Definitely
Jenkins doing carry tier lists, BSJ doing herald game review. Hell must’ve frozen over
Why won't this ungodly patch end
You can always uninstall like i did 🤣😭
Whats wrong with this patch?
@@treedude4246 Lina
@@treedude4246 riki
@@treedude4246 Crystal Maiden is too strong. She needs another nerf.
lina simply does not need to have centaur warrunner's stun on a 7s cooldown at 625 cast range
or 670 base attack range
or 2 moon shards passively
or a 350 health talent
or a 900 magic damage nuke
or a 20 right-click damage talent at level 10
or permanent 550 movespeed
or the ability to get full stacks with 1 spell cast
or the ability to refresh full stacks by only hitting 1 unit with 1 spell
what makes her broken is how she can transition from magic nuker in early game to a right clicker late game. if either her early game or late game gets a bit nerfed, she'll be balanced
@lalfakzualahnamte2021 really? Because nobody is playing her as a nuker in early game dude, they are playing her as a sniper with 1000000 attack speed and ms and a stun
@@lalfakzualahnamte2021 with all due respect, the build for her rn is max passive so you just need a falcon blade to have enough mana to cast spells and hit hit hit hit hit so yeah
her stun is a skill shot it is not easy to land, the only broken skill is firey soul
make fiery soul dispellable
Made a patch where Jenkins
A. Has to talk about carry pudge
B. Is leaving out carries like Riki and legion commander
C. Has an existential crisis with Lina and turns into "And you have to say that you're fine but you're not..." meme.
Just give us a tank carry patch and restore this man's sanity.
Riki is a support this patch, so not really considered a carry. If he was on the carry tier list he'd probably be in the grief tier by virtue of preventing your support from picking him.
Both Riki and LC carry are in the dogpoo tier, they're just so dogpoo that Jenkins just didn't include them. They're griefing your team to pick.
@@Colopty you need the best supports in the world to play carry riki or LC and enjoy/win. it's impossble to use riki by it's original designation of support remover 2000 without it having like 20k farm. even in low mmrs people know how to counter riki big time easy.
LC carry... rofl what are you smoking bro. ;D
@@mavor101 merely stating it as the objective fact LC is listed as a carry.
7.32d Lina is a blight on this world. We should have seen the signs. 2 months ago when the mediocre Lina mid with only bkb + shadow blade was out-manfighting carries, "this seems kinda bullshit..." Little did we know the horrors that were in store for us.
Wdym by two months ago lol, the trend already seems to started when T1 Karl started to spam Lina mid rush BKB in 15 minutes mark and then going full right click build and got big winrate in TI 10, the hero is simply disgusting
They changed how Fiery work. Back than you need use all spells to have max fiery souls.
Now you just need slave one creep waves to have max fiery. Early Lina game is so damn stupid strong with semi permanent 290 atk spd.
@@Test-mq8ih Fiery in Ti was different back then, you need to spam skills to go faster, now you just slave one creep wave you got 80% of fiery
Now that jenkins has assembled all five pieces of the tier list exodia for patch 7.32d we can finally get patch 7.33
What about jungle
@@deadmagnet6318 There is no jungle in DotA. A stack of ancients gives less gold and xp than 1 normal wave of lane creeps. Jungle will never be viable in DotA.
Jenkins: rates pa and jugg 2 dogpoo-tier heroes. Picks both of them during the dpc match😄
Bro literally what was the PA build LOL
Not D-tier, dogpoo tier
hey, they won one of those games, somehow
@@snoozerdota2885hi
i dont draft.
sadly
The further problem with lina is you can't counter her with Dark Seer because her summoned illusions won't inherit the 7 stacks of fiery souls. So her illusion version is so weak you can't kill her with it.
Same issue with SD. You can not get strong illus. You can not purge it and the break does not last enough.
@@davidbock6276 i completely agree with this fiery souls should be dispellable like jingu is can be dispelled et spirit can be its not even her ukt and yet it cant be dispelled which i don’t understand
I've been having success with arc so far
My build is midas gleipnir octarine str blink hex then sell midas for aghanim/dagon/windwaker
Gleipnir str blink 1 shots waves and provides so much control in teamfights and double hex is very good late game
If not hard countered highground defense is always strong enough to go late game
Gleipnir should be nerfed next patch, every strong hero rn builds gleipnir rn
arc warden 1 is slept on, if he is aloud to farm two items the game is over. rush gleip/overwhelm blink
@@guydudemanson2551 too bad the hero not worked pretty well in pro scene LUL, his power spike is pretty long compared to another meta heroes atm, also pretty weak in laning stage too, might as well just pick Spectre instead lul
@@Test-mq8ih good point, he isnt fast enough for the meta
Love the video but I gotta say, I still love to play arc after the patch and I think he still is broken, the nerf he mentioned at 9:41 is only for the secondary wraith from the aghs. This means that after arc gets aghs the first wraith he puts down still lasts for 45s and if someone walks into it, it summons another wraith that only lasts 15s. That may seem like a big difference but typically if you are going to use the second wraith you would end up using it within 15s. Normally you will have your main and your clone there so you toss out 2 wraiths, first wraith slows them then respawns another and while the second wraith is slowing you so you don’t really need the extra 30 seconds. Overall I feel like that nerf has very little effect on arc.
it reduced his "techies minefield" bs. thats really it
Le me who carries the game with a Night stalker and Dawn breaker.
Night stalker this patch is godly. With shard you never go to base, And his ultimate his free vision, dota is game of vision and countering opponent moves.
The picture of BSJ...LOL. I can see you really went through the trouble to look for the weirdest picture of him you could find without making it obscene. That is an art form
My guy I think that's a serial killer with BSJ's face photoshopped onto it
My issue with naga is that she, in pubs especially, is extremely toxic to play against. You pretty much have to pick a hero that can keep her in a box early game and make sure she doesn't get farm, or else you end up trying to deal with illusions pushing every lane and farming every camp at the same time. I prefer fighting meepo, honestly.
Pick Brew, build Radiance, watch Naga cry. I have yet to lose as Brew VS Naga, especially with a Radiance.
Naga is easy to counter, just build cleave items it nullifies all her illu damage
Yep, kill 1 meepo all meepo dies.
Kill 1 naga illu, and she spawns another hundreds of them and steal your camps
@@darredenko dude before you get your radiance, naga will push your tower with manta and tarasque.
pick LC and use Q
this is a 1.5k take, but as a arc spammer, i find all of the arc builds to be situational.
much like invoker, he is a very adaptive hero and in theory, he should have a high winrate. the reason people fail with him is because they prob dont push their limits with him.
a very well rounded build that offers both self saves, catch, reach, and damage is :
midas(some games. u may need maelstrom for teamfights/dmg first and max bubble) ->
maelstrom(if game is hard or can not go late for any reason, you can be a defusal manta hero. your clone will do the full damage of defusal and lets u team fight early and get many kills) ->
bots(if the game is tough, getting bots could just put you 2k behind. only get fast/rush if there are sidelanes to push and enemy is 5 manning down lanes to help split them up) ->
glepneir(only if game is easy, no need for escapes/saves, absolutely need catch else get force or shadow blade first) -> force/pike ->
bkb(you really should not need bkb unless the game is unplayable without it; arc is a hero that can easily survive jump and ganks if he positions well, uses sparks for vision(they show if an invis/smoked hero gets hit by it) and fights with his clone and supports with main hero if game is hard) ->
silver edge(only if hex is not needed, else go a shadow blade straight into hex/bloodthorne) ->
hex(gives arc a reliable 7 second hex that lets him kill people with almost 1k dps. can be swapped for bloodthorne if enemy does not have bkbs or dispels and wont be going those items fast ) ->
sell midas into either more dmg/tank/ahgs/save (items like mkb, bloodthorne, AC, skadi, eblade, linkens(remember u get 2 of these, lets u put the clone's linkens on main hero), or even windwaker could be viable) ->
buy moonshards if game goes ultra late and if you have 5k surpluss on buy back, buy for your other right click cores too and share.
this is my list of items to go, sometimes i will go straight magic build and fight with magic build instead of defusal manta build and there are other play styles like arc with blink and the likes.
the play style is, save clone for fighting if you are with team on main hero. if nothing is happening, and your main is jungling safe, split with clone. you can pick off with this build very easily, thx to shadow hex combo. u can save your self from stuns if your main is stunned but your clone is not with force/pike + bubble and right clicks with clone.
again you just have to watch pro arc players play and learn when they go what style and WHY they do it. spam him in both easy and hard match ups to learn what to do slowly. be patient and play your own game.
make sure to have control groups for arc warden otherwise it could be hard to play; 1 KEY = hero, 2 KEY = clone, 3 KEY = hero + clone, 4 KEY = manta/illusions, 5 KEY = all units, 6 KEY = all units except hero.
also make sure you have a way of tabbing through your units to do easy combos: Qm Rm TAB Qc Ec Wc TAB Em TAB Ec TAB Wm Em (c = clone, m = main hero).
arc is only as hard as you want him to be and as strong as u want him to be. have fun making both the enemy and your team hate you.
His best build involves forcing rotations to save someone getting owned by an illusion while the main afk farms. Magic build with strength blink, gliep, hex/dagon is just so strong because it doesn't suffer from the distance penalties of attack damage reduction. He's pretty bad because a right click build will force him to fight with the main arc, and he can die easy when jumped. This forces a magic build which makes him weak early and ultra late game. If you don't snowball midgame and end he can fall off pretty fast.
Damn, bro. As an arc warden spammer myself this is helpful
@@polo619652 i feel like playing him like a lone druid with ahgs just makes him weaker, he ultimatly is 2 heros and even if there is a riki and lc on the enemy team hunting u, if u position right and have the right wards and sparks, u dont get jump easly. the snowball aspect of his magic build is what makes it hard to play in lower ranks. thus i recomend the scaling right click build
2000 units is prety far and u can play safe with your main easily with a little micro work. both builds are valid depending on the game and drafts.
@@2wheels2 don't gamble yourself with arc, because once you lose the lane it's hard to get back lol. 4k here and arc warden is either a useless hero or a broken hero in the game, there's no inbetween. One of the reasons I hate AM and arc warden pickers, they fall behind so quickly that I have to watch their lane if the enemies use smoke or the mid ganked.
@@deathtoinfidelsdeusvult2184 all heros will struggle in a lost lane; catching up and reobtaining map control. also, i did forget to mention i recommend arc as a pos 1 and less so a pos 2. in the side lanes, he is strong aswell. he does feel lackluster if your team does not have teamfight though. if your arc wardens are not winning lane, unless it is againts a staple lane dom like viper, sf, unit heros, etc., i would say he can win most lanes with spark wraith and bubble or flux and bubble.
Went and played lina for almost the first time ever on archons, gotta say, everything Jenkins said is actually true
7.32d lina is honestly one of the most broken heroes I’ve seen in dota in a while. Hero doesn’t lose lane, has extremely low cd high damage kill threat with shadow blade and can out man fight virtually any hero when she gets satanic. Picked a good time to take a break from dota because seeing her in dpc is absolutely vile, surprised teams are even letting her through the first phase
At least there are another meta hero which have chance to counter Lina like Tuskar, Marci or even the cancer Riki sleeping dart combo, that's why Lina isn't the hero with biggest winrate in almost every DPC region (you can see the stat in Liquipedia), but she is still a ridiculously strong hero in this patch, and one of most contestable hero in pro scene too
Good to know that Naga's Radiance build is going back into popularity. I used to play against Naga back then and they just build Rad and it's gg.
See kids? In my old days, when shit like 7.32d Lina happened, we just spammed Techies and instakilled her over and over again for picking broken heroes. It did not matter if we won, or lost, as long as we made that Lina spammer commit suicide IRL. Now we can't do even that and we are stuck in this hellhole.
Glad that the ending wasn't just my slow descent into madness.
hey jenkins, can you make a tierlist for herald players and lowest elo possible? or maybe for climbing a little in ladder :D I listen to those reasons of tiers, good and alll buuut those never apply to low elo xd low elo matches decided by who has that 1 smurf on team or maybe who has not fighting each other in chat :D
This has to be a voodoo ritual to summon the patch by posting all these tier videos
Epic editing @ end
Thank you Jenkins, I don't know if you saw my comment in one of your other tiers in which I asked you to do a Tier for pos 1, but I was hoping for one as crazy. Don't stop making tiers man, I love them and your approach.
I’ve played 2 games of Riki Carey against Lina carry and I won both of em, I did comeback both of them but the build was diffu, shard, bkb, bashed once I hit the shard diffu timming Lina could not 1v1 , silence no mana no stacks no fight the only problem was it was so slow getting farm and Lina was farming so fast but in a straight fight I was able to pick her off multiple times on side lanes and by herself
The problem is, Lina almost in all matches goes for Gleipnir, number one counter item for riki, then bkb, number two counter item for riki and if it wasn't enough, she goes also satanic and might go mkb as well to counter your smoke without bkb, so riki isn't really way how to counter that shit. She farms way too fast and outfarms every single carry even with bad lane.
welcome to the Lina Major!
I used to only pick either NP or Marci every game. Maybe pudge if available. Glad to see those two up top lol
Maelstorm PA is somewhat viable btw. I won quite a few games with it when I saw that we'll be forced to fight early. The lightning proc daggers be nasty on those supps early game. :D
Perfect editing at the end
this video was awesome, I was so exhausted after work today, I managed to fall right asleep after starting this!1!
THIS VIDEO IS WHY MY FRIEND KEEPS PLAYING NP CARRY AT HERALD RANK AND IT DOESNT WORK!!!
even in the netflix movie, Lina carries an entire nation
As an arc spammer I don’t even feel the aghs nerf
fr, i tried it with the nerf for the first time and it still felt great.
Ah yes....
Best carry recommendations from BSJ = BananaSlamJenkins
I was telling a friend many months ago that if they notice it, Lina has generally only recieved BUFFED for the past 10 years of patches. Now it's happening guys.
why do this moments before patch jenkins? what do you know? TELL US
30:29 why not both?
Holy fuck the light yagami laugh and zoom in. What editting.
the best luna build i have seen so far is aghs rush insto standard luna carry build. teh shard gives you so much absurd free dmg. is half a rapier every ult for free.
Just adding my bit to the huge pile of examples of how broken Lina is - I've played a bit of mid Lina few weeks ago, but never actually got to try her as pos 1 until this week. I played one game (mostly because my usual carries got banned) and right as it started I realised that the taskbar is blocking the bottom part of my screen, including the entire backpack etc. This threw me off quite a bit and caused me to accidentally fill it with neutral items that I instinctively picked up. xD
Bottom line is: I was pretty distracted and probably played at like 30% of my normal efficiency, but the game was still pretty easy to win, I got a bunch of kills, 20k building damage etc. As long as you can keep your stacks up, you will win. Simple.
I highly believe that Jenkins can make a 30mins video ranting about Lina
Now I'm curious about the carry Marci. Looked her up on pro tracker, seems to mainly lose a bunch so not sure about good games to learn from.
Qojqva has been playing carry marci a lot and he's been playing it well.
As a Marci and Ursa main, I am flattered
I won 8 out of 12 games firstpicking lina carry. And I'm a support player.
Gonna go play a couple of am matches with browns into battle f into travels and pushing lanes everywhere all the time and report back on how it feels. That strat of being a super aggressive rat that does go into fights even if you only have bf usually throws enemy teams of balance since an antimage that goes into hyper push all lane overdrive and kites them in teamfights from the back early is not something you see too often. And for those who say treads are the way to go, go to sleep grandpa, you have to farm your life away tomorow.
I return with an inconclusive report since am got banned 3 time and the last match where i got him my drow and Sand king went dual mid cussing each other out. Will have to properly try it tomorrow.
Every year n a half or so I get back into dota n I pretty much play Troll Warlord because I know how to play it well at times n don't have time to put into other heros so to me TW will always be top tier 🤘🏻 😈
You go girl WOO
a good tier list, I was cringed by some other carry tier lists so hard, ty for cleansing my eyes
Nice to see my favorite hero (Nature's Prophet) doing well this patch! "For the trees!" 🌲
Timbers INTENSIFIES!!!!
Jenkins what was that pa build?
I built manta, diffusal, and got a bkb at 40 minutes on PA and still didn't win my game. Terrible hero.
you shlould not buy stats items on pa. Go deso then bkb theb basher. Come in to figts when kill is clear
@@abdumalikshukurov9241 you are watching a niche jenkins video, but dont know that jenkins team mate bsj built diffu manta pa in a pro game the other day and they lost the game
People should buy double bashers on lone druid after double wraith band and hand of midas type of attack speed shit.
And the best offlane is SF
As main Lina mid player i suggest you to pick Sniper vs her in lane:
1) more damage than Lina
2) more range than Lina
3) Shadow blade Lina isn't meta, so no way for her to sneak up and kill you.
4) if you survive laning stage, Lina must fn gank and that sucks, because its Falcon blade meta not BoT.
5) you will outcarry her min 35+, no doubt about that.
If you even the lane with Lina you are winning.
Its Falcon Blade that makes her OP. Goddamnit it's 1100 gold full item and it's 550 gold to have SOLID damage with blades of attack. We need nerf for that moronic OP item.
ad 3) & 4) You do realise that just because some item isn't "meta", it doesn't mean it can't be used in a specific game, where it works better than the "meta" item? Maybe it's not exactly what you meant (no way for me to know that), but the way you phrased it, it's rather stupid ("hero A wins vs hero B, because hero B would need an item X to win and that item isn't meta"). You don't always buy meta items - you buy the items that you think are needed to win.
Not to mention that "meta" doesn't fully apply to lower ranks etc. (e.g. SB is traditionally way better at lower MMR, because people are worse at using wards and dust - I usually went for SB on mid Lina and just made sure to kill enemy sentries around mid, which most enemies didn't respond to well enough).
@@randomguy6822 I didn't say item isn't meta - shadow blade Lina isn't something that works like it worked previously. This patch is almost impossible to go shadow blade on here without Falcon Blade. The point i was trying to make is that she is stupidly overpowered because you don't even need to make Falcon blade but just to buy Blades of attack and to harass enemies until they are out of lane or dead. That can also be done with Sniper on safe lane too, i tried and stomped some Divine 3 games. Its 1100 gold item - THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Nerf her safe lane potential and leave her mid lane as she should be. Also i hope that they nerf Templar Assassin safe lane too, her W with 25 mana cost is just what it is - unbalanced stupidity.
Lina tier A, am tier B too. Jenk....
i often get flamed instantly when i pick mirana position 5
Didn't see Earth Spirit in this list. Absolutely disrespectable.
Most fun I had with dota was from 2015 to 2018. After that, not so much.
The lower tier heroes are the ones i lose to the most t--t
I think FartSJ is the best carry of the patch
Lina's stacks need to fall off one at a time instead of all 7 being maintained by clipping 1 hero. If you clip one hero the other 6 stacks should time out. That would help a lot I think
that sounds like jax from league
19:13 wtf how is your sakura weather working did valve finally fix?
LoL love the lina zoom in
14:40
so much hype on lina... when techies can still solo carry from early to late game...
Lifestealer can counter Nature's or people who try to pin him down using his Aghs upgrade. He also destroys Lina with some real dmg combined with Aghs. He's way better than C tier and I'm astounded you don't realize it.
Lifestealer is an out-sustain kind of fighter. Lina needs to be nuked down or controlled, otherwise she WILL kill you in a few seconds. If you try to just go at her as Lifestealer with Rage, you won't even reach melee. And even if you blink on her, you simply don't have the nuke potential to take her down quickly enough. Also, she farms way faster and will have better items - good luck ever killing Lina with Satanic as LS...
Yeah Lina just goddamn broken. Before this patch, Lina mid can slave mid small neutral camp to keep fiery buff up.
I had like 80% winrate with Lina mid.
That ending was some David Lynch shit
It's funny how you can compress this 31min video into just 1 sentence: Play Lina :D
@jenkins you should look into magic gyro. hyro with shard and bloodstone with radience. is actually god tier. its so dumb.
LOVE LINA BUT WE ALL KNOW NERF IS COMING ON NEXT BIG PATCH
I never go fury on PA. always Echo sabre basher so I could join clash early. i got 70% wr @ immortal with this build
Out of curiosity - how do you get any reasonable farm with this build? It doesn't really make you more survivable to be able to safely farm lanes and Sabre doesn't speed up jungling by a lot for quick-attacking AGI heroes. And even with Sabre + Basher, you're not exactly a hero who wants to fight early and get your gold from enemies...
I'm genuinely asking, because I've found PA almost unplayable lately, since you don't farm quickly/safely enough in the early game to get your items before the enemy takes control of the map, which makes you rely too much on your team holding the line for you.
Amazing, as always
This patch would be great if not for Lina Riki
jenkins i doodoo'd in my gaming chair
Where is Razor? First it was on the place of Gyro. But then he dissapears.
i rarely play dota these days but whats with lina as a hard carry? i mean she cant beat medusa and spectre in the late right?
is there even a next tier list because jenkins just covered all the roles maybe on the next patch or maybe make an item tier list for supports, carries, and offlane that would be good.
BananaSlamBundy
Im confused because some of the very low tier ones are very strong in 3-4k
so what is luna position now?
Surprised to see no honorable mention for DK. I suppose he's better as a mid but my god that hero can cheese wins with that agha manta octarine
Sometimes you just lose because you actually can't stop him from just slowsieging towers with illus. It's demoralizing.
Just played against a mid 40/2 Lina that was 0/2 in the lanning phase :)
Monkey King shard underrated for counter
Like it's such a simple fix for lina: just make her shard give AS and make the ability give spell amp. Done, hero not dead, shit early game as a carry. Shit late game as a mid.
Nah, she deserves to be thrown in the bin.
Where is tiny? Great lane, super fast farm and really high damage to both heroes and towers. Depending on the game he can solo kill most of the heroes. Would say A tier or B tier at least. Thoughts?
Unpicked as a carry and is way more potent as mid
coming from a herald, why isnt broodmother in this list? it says shes a carry
1 Mason
2 Gork
3 Bsj (especially when Mason is not online)
4 Ephey especially when she talks with the offlaner of the other team
5 Arteezy especially cause he is a pro player
6 Dendi especially when he decide to stop playng dota2
7 Twitch visualization doesn't mean value, and Bsj is a god Jenkins
I miss the Marci patch
Anyone know the song used when he was talking about lina?
Sniper as always been a trash carry. Sniper is good mid. The Headshot+take aim combo just does so much damage at lvl 7 and at lvl 10.
I've been getting a dagger on him recently and it's pretty dope.
I play some WK from time to time and the rab build is decent(at my level). You do need to get it in 18 mins or less tho.
I play troll too. His ult is trash if you use it defensively. Use it offensively and you can easily permasnare someone.
Why are you talking to yourself lmao
@@thatonerandomguyontheinter4971 < this is him
Shadow demon carry is really slept on
The best analyst in patch 7.32d.
I feel this is more a I want lina to be nerfed video than an accurate tier listing.
why is lesh and legion not here?
Meepo is good safe lane too
In herald, Sniper is SSS+ tier
oh look, shit tier and d tier is the things that i constantly see in ranked at the hell legend mmr
For real. Almost every low tier here is what I see in my Harold games.
@@OlderThanTime09 Low MMR games often play out completely differently than pro matches or even just decently high ranks. For example some of the best offlaners this patch are almost never picked in Herald etc., because nobody can play them well...
Supports are also generally worse at buying wards and dust (which makes invis heroes stronger) or even just, well, supporting their carry (which makes more versatile/self-sufficient carries stronger).
The tempo of the game is also much slower, which impacts a lot of heroes in complex ways that I'm way too noob to describe or even properly understand.
I am here for the BSJ PA S-TIER
Oh disregard his F-tier. maybe jenkins should have told FartSJ that
14:48 we all know who he was talking about... like we just all knew cockva was the one who gets off to this shit, and ive played LD all day... i kinda get it but jeez
Might want to consider Clinkz, Qojqva wins with him so much
PA is clearly S Tier, you just need to go for the manta diffusal build.