Wood Burning Pool Heater - Upgrade and Update
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- We have loved having this pool heater available to boost the pool temps a bit in the spring and fall. It has worked great although over the last year and a half has lost some efficiency. Taking the advice of some great feedback on the first build I am going to try a few new ideas with this and see if I can't get a more efficient heat transfer and boost the temps up even more!
The most common feedback I received was "Why don't you wrap the copper tubing around the outside of the barrel?" This is a great idea and one that I had considered before I started the first version of the pool heater. I ended up deciding to put the tubing on the inside of the barrel because I wanted it to be engulfed in the flame with no tubing exposed to the outside air and I also didn't like the look of the tubing on the outside. In the end this is what I have found..
The coil on the inside is much more efficient at absorbing the heat; however, it does not hold up as well over time since it collects soot and creosote over time and becomes less efficient. Overall this is the best approach but you will need to take the coil out each year and clean it up.
The second approach was to wrap the coil around the outside of the barrel. This also works very well but in order for it to be most efficient it will need to be covered in some sort of insulation to keep the heat around the tubing. I noticed that the outside area of the tubing is actually working like a heat sink and cooling the outer side. With good insulation wrapped around the barrel with the tubing in between the heat would be trapped and provide the best heat exchange to the water. I am currently looking for some good outdoor insulation that I can use for this application.
In the meantime I have both the coil on the outside and the one on the inside in use and the temps I am getting are fairly close to what I had when I first started the project last year.
This has been such a fun project to work on and experiment with and I am excited for the winter season so I can test it's use heating my garage again! Stay tuned for updates on that and thanks for stopping by!
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Omg when she comes over and hugs you...heart melted
Man is it just me or does anyone else LIKE the way the copper looks on the outside? gives it a kinda steam punk feal to it.
TheFidget99 feel*
i like the copper coil look. i'd want to wrap the whole barrel though.
Like any Boiler, it must be disassembled once a year, cleaned, and put back together. next time try a 3/8" black iron pipe, tube bundle. installed in the top section of the firebox. run it through the back through a hole covered with a 6" stack cap. punch holes and put several loups from back to front, (make the 180° turn with street elbos,) and back out the rear. connect them with flex pipe like under your kitchen sink. cover the inconsistencies in the holes with KO Wool. (ceramic wool). at the end of the year you can pull the entire bundle in one shot, save the wool and clean it! easy peasy!
I remember probably 35 years ago, my dad doing something similar. We had a wood burning stove in our basement and my dad routed the water to run back and forth over the stove, (it was more a square stove than round) before it went to our water heater, I am not too sure what he saved by doing this, but the goal was that the water heater would last longer and we would save on the bill to heat that water. I was given the task of keeping the wood box full. It was a good job for me and taught me responsibility. I checked that box every morning before school because I never wanted that task to fall to my mom or my dad.
+CJStryke That is a really cool idea and I wish we had a wood burner in our basement. Preheating the water before it goes into the water heater would be a great energy saver. Thanks for sharing that, maybe I will have the chance to make something like that in the future.
+SSLFamilyDad l used a 55 gallon food grade barrel as my transfer tank.I used barrel fittings with 50 ft of copper pipe as a heat transfer to the clean well water .The input water is controlled by a ball toilet valve.A pressure pump transfers the water to the hotwater tank .We use around 60 gallons of hot water a day.I now save 8 kwhours of electricity a day.
+terry rehel I would love to do something like that, that sounds awesome.
It is so powerful,I have dispense extra heat energy,so that the harnessing and dispensing are somewhat in a balance,I estimate that it produces 5kw of equivalent heat energy.It is self cleaning because the circulation fluid is hotter and that the radiator lets the fire through it.I can also make a dry fire to burn off any deposits in a safe controlled maner.If you are interested I will explain the addons that I build,I can even use it to run a clothes dryer!!!
feel free to email me if you would like more details terry.rehel@gmail.com
The little lady steal the show!.
She's adorable.
ITS HARD TO KNOW WHAT THE WAS SAYING... BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH SMILE SMILE
Класно
TRUE
I've been considering a pool but was interested in reducing the expense of heating the water. I came across your video and found it most helpful! The creosote buildup can be made into ash by burning a hotter fire (a flue fire). This will occur when the stack temperature exceeds 270 degrees. In lieu of a small chimney fire, the addition of softener salt periodically will also help to convert that buildup to a brush-able ash. I've read several of the other comments and I agree that wrapping the tubing with a non-combustible insulation will greatly increase the efficiency of the operation. I have a good supply of wood so this could be a very viable solution to my application! Thanks!
I was thinking of doing something like this several years ago, but with a twist. Placing a 30 gallon drum, wrapped with copper coils, inside the 55 gallon drum. Then filling the space between with a high temperature mortar mix. It would still transfer heat, but would offer protection for the coils. Never had the opportunity put it to a test
HA. Should of read down as I just posted about doing a "double walled" stove like the one I have in my barn and running the copper tubes between the walls like a heat exchanger. never had much luck with high temp mortar mixes though so when we do ours will forego that, but may insulate the outside .... or may not.
Instead of mortar mix just try using sand, it should heat up and retain heat for some time after the fire is out.
Thats the best helper ive ever seen she's gorgeous bless her 😍😍👍👍
Congratulations, you know what I like the most about your video is the great love you have for your daughter, you remembered me when I was young I had 4 women and 3 boys but the girls stuck to me, very good yours.
great vid! a sealed box with a coil in it , inside the burn chamber , wrap the outside with a 50' coil backed with flashing and insulate, insulate the underground lines really well. do it all in 7/8 copper and you should see a significant difference .
+stcldcrzy1 I thought about making a baffle inside the burn barrel to keep the flame off of the coil to reduce the build up, that might be a future experiment, I am also going to dig up the underground tubing this fall and insulate it as well. Great ideas! Not sure about the larger copper though, can't afford it!
Very cool build vid 🙌. One other way to prevent creosote build up on your internal coils would be to put them inside a secondary burn chamber with a heated fresh air feed, sort of like a rocket stove/ mass heater. The burn temp inside that secondary chamber should be high enough to prevent build up 👍
Thanks for the update!! I built one similar to yours but opted out of putting the coil inside, I looped mine over the top 3/4 or the barrel and my remaining copper I coiled up the outside of the chimney! Then I wrapped the coils with aluminum foil to help capture as much heat as I could!! My water comes in at the chimney area first and then to the coils wrapped over the top of the barrel! Has been working pretty good this far, just fired it up again today trying to get one more swim in this weekend!!! Thanks for your great ideas!!
+Ed Belavitz That sounds like a great idea! I thought about wrapping the chimney pipe a bit with this tubing also which would capture a lot of heat. The way that I did it here does waste some of the area of the pipe that goes on the bottom of the barrel. How did you loop yours just on the top, an you share a picture on facebook? facebook.com/simplesuburbanliving
+SSLFamilyDad, I will take some pics for you in the and I will try to get it sent to you!!!
Art and science can bond, got the cash and this could be a beautiful copper art heater. This is the heart, just add the art!
Just a comment... heat transfer is all about "delta T" and mass flow rate. Using a manifold at the start and finish with many smaller diameter lines going through the hot environment will present more copper line with water at pool temp which is the lowest temp, which provides the greatest delta T and the greatest transfer of heat.
hope your pump doesnt fail. ive just built a barrel stove, stands vertical on 4 feet with a small air door low down and an old bbq lid on top with a hinge, liftable on a pulley. coil is 25 meters internally coiled and strapped inside burner. fire is top loading and coil is cleanable with wire brush. heats a 1000 litre ibc container in about two hours.
Great video. I'm looking to build something like this to heat a small hot tub, and also to use as a pizza oven. I wonder if enclosing your inner coil behind a metal sheet would have kept the coils protected from soot and also be easier to clean. I've no experience, it's just an idea.
So, line the barrel with insulation, then build up the floor to just below half way for the pizza stone. Build up the sides and place a metal sheet across the top, perhaps with the coil attached to it with heat paste. Seal it all around the edges.
If I were to do this I would definitely insulate the body of the heater to reduce all the heat lost there. I would have the copper coil around the outside of the chimney with water pumped around from top to bottom (ref: counter-current flow).
The chimney would be a narrower and the winding could be done horizontally and then mounted as a unit. I would then surround this with a second "chimney" to provide a warm cavity for the coils and then wrap this with more insulation. It would be bulkier but should extract more heat from the fuel.
I got told the chimney is the hottest part of a woodstove. I also saw a infrared picture that confirmed that statement. So it would be a good idea i guess to wrap the copper around the chimney.
this answer some questions i had about heat collection from a wood heater... i am still working on a design of my own... thanks for sharing... william
Did you ever build one? I'm looking for some ideas ;)
You could rap fiberglass insulation blanket around the sides of it to trap that heat in so the water in the exterior coil gets heated nicely
I didn’t read all the comments so this may have already been addressed but I would use foam insulation on your return pipes from the stove back to the pool, underground and above ground to avoid heat loss. I like your new design and suggestion for adding another coil or two.
necessity is the mother of invention....way to go..
I completely missed your intro! Your adorable daughter stole the show! Ha ha!
If you decide to go commercial, you’ve got a natural born salesperson...your daughter. She’s adorable.
She made the video in my mind... adorable x100
Give her a hug old chap.
I like the idea with the longer length of copper and if you paint it black iy will act like a solar heater also if the wood stove is in the sun.
+Robert Hansberger That is a great point, I could just let it circulate through the heater all the time even when it is not lit. Might add a little extra heat that way.
Have you considered trying to use a creosote log or burning the creosote reducing briquettes once in a while to reduce the buildup on the copper pipe? As a firefighter I see that creosote buildup when I respond to active chimney fires in the fall/winter time. Creosote reducing logs burned one in a while will reduce and prevent future buildup which will make your stove and coil system perform much more efficiently. Try it out maybe once a month or so when you're using the stove the most.
+Nicholas Beardslee I have actually never heard of those I will check that out thanks man!
Reviving a 6year old comment thread, but I’m about to do this with a retired offset smoker. I have thirty foot of copper I’m going to put in the cooker side of the smoker hoping that the fire being in the fire box and the heat just traveling through the coil might make it last a little longer. I’m just about to fill the pool so I’m hoping that will make the water hot enough to swim right off the bat rather than waiting a week for it to warm up.
I would have plumbed the coils in parallel instead of series. I had an outdoor pellet boiler as my primary heat years ago, and one thing you learn is that flow rate impacts the change in temperature.
You might see more delta (change in temperature) by slowing down the flow through the coils, as the water will have more time to absorb heat.
Many heat exchangers work on this principle, especially flat plate heat exchangers
Question did your chlorine you added to the pool ever had a chemical reaction with the cooper and turn your pool green or the liner black ?
Precious little helper...
Thanks for posting the video. I would like to someday build a hot tub heated by solar and wood as needed. Learned a lot from your work!
Some of the very first home hot water tanks used a copper coil in the fire chamber, the tank itself was a riveted galvanized steel tank
A rocket stove is commonly used to heat water or air like this. The exhaust is usually wrapped and insulated with sand or vermiculite. you should check it out! i do like what you've done though.
I like the idea of copper pipe to heat water in wood burning stove. I wonder if you had wrapped the coil around just the chimney pipe -if that would have given you enough heat and the mass - as it would have tighter coils.and as for insulating -you might be able to use like a clay cobb pipe over top of flu pipe so you have great thermal mass and insulation - i have a grill might try doing something like you did - great idea to use wood to heat the water -then pay power co $100. bucks to heat water
Thanks for the update!
If you can cover it from rain, they make Sticktight it like the replacement for asbestos but it's not waterproof. If you can cover it with that and then put at least a corrugated roof over it, i think you will enjoy it more.
Get your self some rock wool insulation wrap it tight and cover it with aluminum flashing to keep it dry . Works great. Do the whole barrel .
get yourself an barrel add on kit from northern tool company . then put your heating coil in the top barrel. you will get 10x the life from your coil, like i did. i added a small circulating pump.
Any pictures and information about the circulating pump? I also read about of the using of copper tubing's will add copper to the water, any comment on this, please! I would Appreciated. Thank you.
I would take a second barrel and cut the end off one end and cut it long enough to cover the pipe. split it so you can open the circumference and wrap it over the copper. then, I'd wrap that with insulation. Looks really good.
That's a good idea!
Nice Work! I built one of these too. About 5 yrs ago. Different materials and configuration. But, same principle.
I like your design better!
I used a 40gal water heater standing upright and a 100' coil of copper inside. I am getting a 30 degree increase in temp at 3gpm. But...
My burn chamber is much smaller and needs to be re-fueled often. Yours can burn a long time, unattended! That's a Huge Factor!
I get a lot of kreosote build-up too. The coil is removable. It's still a pain to get clean!
I think I'll be making a new one this year. Thanks!
I've been trying different ways to pump the water too. Other than using the filter pump. Because it cost so much to run all that time.
I'm in the lower Thumb area. Would be great to compare notes sometime.
I subscribed. will look for a response
Nice! From playing with my solar heater these past years, maximum temp gain in our pool has come from increasing water flow through the heater, not maxing out the temp of the heater output. I'm convinced now I want a wood-fired pool heater (Thanks!) to supplement the solar. Perhaps increasing the copper diameter or creating a manifold of several 1/2" wraps could increase overall flow. For sure a sort of insulation on the coils should improve the temp gain.
I was gonna suggest that in the other video you have, pre heat the water on the outside
[:37] Best video ever. Little girl makes my week. All the sudden the world is soft hearted, gentle and kind. The gentlemen is a rich man... heart, mind, body and soul.
I would certainly get a couple of Creosote eating logs from your fireplace store and burn them.... get the long burn ones not the quick shots and that should eliminate a lot of the internal creosote....
www.google.com/shopping/product/8130907214711599087?lsf=seller:8740,store:16564500321268303825&prds=oid:16924983955706917956&q=creosote+log&hl=en&ei=KRtzWM2eHMzUjwSo8rZI&lsft=gclid:CjwKEAiA48fDBRDJ24_imejhwUkSJAAr0M5kK_xcASpW2bhDaLENeUJVblrUCJX9D0yzhcmzKL9FNxoCFjfw_wcB
They make a 55 gallon drum with a flanged end cap- it’s a band with a bolt through it- just weld a couple brackets on it. Put your coil inside. And every five or six times you fire it up. Just remove it and wire brush it. Simple as pie!
Put the inside coil in its own box. with holes in top of that box will keep the coil clean and hot
What would the box be made out of?
Maybe u could just take another barrel and cut them n half to put over the copper on the outside keeping the heat around the tubing longer acting like a oven of sorts. Or some other kind of shield thingy magiggy to help retain heat.
Replace with stainless steel 3/4 brass fittings wrap outside wrap stack too. Temp gauge on line
this would probably work even better if you had a heat transfer barrel on top with additional tubing around it, I use to use a double barrel stove in my greenhouse to heat it and it generated a tremendous amount of heat.
Chuck
+Fensterfarm Greenhouse Very fair suggestion. I thought about doing the double barrel but I was trying to keep this low profile in our yard. Keep the wife happier:) That would surely make an impact on the efficiency though.
I wish I had that wood burning pool heater.
I'm embarking on a very similar project right now - whats your thoughts after 5 years?
Also all joints are brazed silver, not sweat welds. The brazed joint will not fail with high heat.
Building a sheet metal heat shield over the external copper pipes would reflect a lot of heat back on the pipes. Right now you are getting more heat loss from the majority of the pipe not touching the barrel.
The efficiency of the copper tubing on the outside is minimal,unless you sandwich it with aluminum flashing like a saddle back.The surface area of the copper pipe heat transfer will not be effecitive I built a boiler with a square wood stove in a cinder block box with a discarded cast irion radiator on top of the stove.I cut out the top of the stove and put the outlet smoke stack out of the cinder block box.IT takes an hour to heat up my hottub from 50 f to 100f. ,its a 200 gallon tub.The circulation fluid goes through a heat transfer coil.So the clean water does not come in contact with the cast iron radiator(they can get rusty)I use propylene glycol as the heat transfer fluid .
normally you have a hot burnchamber. this should be insulated, with good primary air (controllable) as the heat pickup in the burn chamber you start to distill the wood and woodgas is produced this is burnt in the secondary burn chamber. its only after this step you should start the process of removing the heat via your copper coils. buildup of creosote and tar suggest a wasteful and inefficient burn, normally you should just get a whitish fine powder which is easily removable. in regards of efficiency you measure the hpttest part of the burn (the bluish flame) and the egt, take the delta between these and divide by the hot temperature and you get the efficiency of your burner (i.e (Ch-Cc)/Ch = efficiency in percent. done right the heater should be virtually smokeless and have very little creosote and tar buildup. there are some builds like this (oildrums) on youtube... doing this can achieve amazing efficiency levels (90%), that saves a lot of wood and backache handling it! it also saves you from inhaling a lot of unhealthy gases which are known to cause cancer and other very unpleasant lung diseases
another good one. thanks man. also, grew up in michigan myself. outside of kalamazoo.
+shane holmes Thanks Shane! Glad to hear from another Michigander
I would have definitely walked the coil around the center tube because that one switch for the flu is going to get red hot rather quickly because where the coil are the coppers it's a safety factor and if you put any heating tape around it it's still not going to stop you from getting burned
Good idea man thanks
Hi! I just found your video on heating your pool with wood, and that led me to see all the other wonderful videos that you’ve put out over the years, so I’m excited to watch them too! I have a question for you, or anybody else that might know...would this setup work for a salt water pool, or would I have to alter it by using steel pipes or some other material. We just purchased a pool that is made specially for salt water pools, and I’ve read that certain metals are more prone to corrosion. Thanks in advance for any advice!!
Doubt it would work because of salt accumulation
so - for heat retention and insulation purposes - what would you think if the whole thing was buried into a mound of dirt? Only the door available (to feed the fire and clean) and the smoke pipe sticking out? Seems like we could increase the efficiency significantly...
pressure wash coils and drain stove. there is a spray cleaner available to clean coils on heat pumps and air conditioners. check it out.
Heat rises. Therefore copper coil at base of stove pipe be more efficienterer. Use an infared thermometer to verify temp points. Bottom of barrel much cooler that base of stove pipe. Much less copper needed too.
Just noticed ur a State fan! I watched the vid bc I was thinking how I might use that in the winter for my Koi
The idea of the Insulating is a great one, You should hold that heat. does the line incoming and pout are they insulated in the ground? Think That would help by not having to heat the ground. even the incoming line should be insulated. Just a Thought, Great video.
+Golfingferdie Great point, this was actually my problem when I used it for the garage heater, I didn't insulate the underground lines and it didn't work very well due to that. I plant to dig them all up this fall and insulate the lines.
Use a sand blaster or maybe a pressure washer to clean all the sut off the coils, make the copper nice and shiny.
I think if Put another 20 or 30 feet of windings split another barrel and put A jacket over the top of your copper winding It would trap a lot of heat and may raise the temperature and your outer windings don’t know how that would work for you But It’s a thought
I left out a couple words hopefully you can read between lines and figure it out what I was trying to say sorry about my poor texting skills good luck to you hope it works out
This would be efficient if a structure was built around the stove and filled with sannd as a heat mass, with the copper coils running above the stove and completely covered with the sand, and some type of cover that holds the heat in from dissipating so quickly
Looks good thank you for sharing
use a smaller drum wrap it then set it in side the bigger seal both ends and let for a small breez way (so that the air in side the smaller drum does not expand or explode)
+lee kasen Great idea, thanks!
the problem with using copper on the outside is that copper is a great DISPERSER of heat. That is why it is used in heatsinks to absorb and disperse heat. So as long as the temp outside is cooler than the water inside, the water will be getting cooled very efficiently by the copper as it runs through.
I'm not sure what kind of pool you are heating, but I made pretty much the equivalent and it worked like crud. left it running with a shit ton of burning charcoal and all the heat generated did nearly nothing to the water after 6 hours running.
Seems you would need probably double this size, with 4x the copper tubes to be able to actually reach a point where you would get the results needed to heat a pool of say 20-30,000 liters.
I'm not giving up on the idea myself though, because like I said, if you got enough copper to heat the water up, and then insulate the pipe that is running on the outside to minimize heat loss to air convection, then I might have success.
Its worth the struggle, because for me, wood is very cheap or free.
I agree with that, the copper coil on the outside should be wrapped with some fiberglass or fireproof insulation so that you can retain all the heat from the wood stove and the copper piping. Also, I will say I did a video on the effectiveness of this and how many gallons per hour you are heating and by how much. You will need to run the heater much longer than 6 hours to heat a 15,000 gallon pool! I used to run it for a few days and would see about a 10 degree difference
Have You thought about cleaning the copper inside? Maybe it would do it good like a chimney needs cleaning
I like it👍 I think the copper and black barrel looks great! More copper.
Just a thought. Have you tried burning a cleaner wood like oak? Pine gives off a lot of creosote that’s why it’s not used in fireplaces.
Genius just completely genius 👏
Im thinkin about this for my hot tub
How about coiling it around the outside in sideways configuration, not looping, but so it never tilts in a downward direction, then coil around the chimney in an upwards direction as well, then it can become a self pumping thermosyphon. Like a drip coffee maker but fire power
I was so confused up until the point you showed the recirculating system. kept thinking, "man, its just going to steam with the coils like that"
I’m actually surprised that the interior copper tubing didn’t just completely fail do to its lower melting point. I think if you just bite the bullet and pay for 80-100 feet initially and wrap it outside it would be long lasting and plenty efficient.
copper tubing has a melt point, I believe, of nearly 2000 degrees farenheit... and I don't think he stove is going to get hotter than 800 degrees or so... I think there's plenty of leeway...
Would more copper on outside and another barrel over that so it would be more like a old school boiler. Kinda late now unless you happen to have a odd sized barrel on hand. But always could be version 2.0 down the road.
Merci beaucoup ! I'm building the same !
Fabulous...how do you get it to connect on the filter? That's the only thing puzzles me
What if you had a double barrel on, could you wrap both barrels? Our pool is 18 x 33 48” deep.
Respectfully,
Thomas
What about wrapping the coil outside the and then slap on cob to hold the heat?
Maybe, could you, build a metal box, with the copper tubes inside of it, and seal the copper tubes inside, with only an inlet and an outlet? Then, mount the box inside of the barrel, with inlet and outlet the only parts projecting from the barrel? Like a heater core in a car. Just thought I'd offer my two cents, I do lots of repairs on automotive HVAC. :)
+advauto1 spark57 That is a really good idea, I could probably put a sheet metal shelf at the top on the inside and then just put the coils on that. Might think about giving that a try, thanks for the idea.
Did you ever try to insulate the barrel? if so, what were your results? I built a similar one with 50 feet of 1/2 inch SS on the inside. When stoked up, the barrel will get to 900 F and the water is piping hot. It is just difficult to keep it at that temp. But it does burn off any crap the builds up on the pipe
What about taking sliding glass and run black copper coils back and forth sun will add quite a bit of heat
almost identical to what I built for my pool. I built my stove from 16" dia., 1/4 " thick x 4' long pipe. coiled pipe with 100' of 3/4" copper tubing, wrapped it with insulation, then covered insulation with corrugated sheet metal. not pretty, but works great. so well in fact, that you better keep water circulating the entire time you're burning wood. turned off pump one time, and melted the solder in all the elbows and connections, and melted pvc going to the return line.
Great video. Looking at doing this for a hot tub, anyone think this would provide enough heat to keep a 6-8 person hot tub hot, if you were to wrap the entire stove in copper pipe and also have minimal distance from stove to tub?
i just got a used air tight stove wood stove I was thinking of putting a old house cast iron rad in it or on top to heat pool water any suggestions or opinions
Brilliant!
how about wrapping 90 ft of coil around it and then encasing it in concrete to stop heat dissipation from the coils being exposed to the elements. It will start to look like a pizza oven but maybe then you could get two for one uses out of the build??? just a fun idea to ponder??
should build a cinder block structure around the wood burner the coil will retain heat better
What would you wrap it with? And I can't believe that the pipe doesn't melt with a red hot barrel I think that ladies trick she used with building a box to go around it would help you out heating that pipe up more
nice job. Go Sparty, Beat the Buckeyes.
+Permaculture Prepper lol, yes!!
Worth watching just to see your daughter... She could sell ice the Eskimos
Did you consider rolling the copper coil flat for more surface contact on the barrel?
Does using the copper tubing affect the copper in the pool water
Hi, how are you? I like your videos and was wondering if Do you mind sharing the schematic of the connection with the pool filter inlet and outlet I’m trying to do the same, but I’m not very good on it. Thank you. Keep it up the good videos!!! God bless!
Hey ssl I am working on doing this project this week and looking to plumb into my hot tub. Wondering if you had any updated tips.
Pool heater 2600.00 pain in the ass = 0
Guess u guys are in it for the fun