The Failure of The Rings of Power... 1 Year Later
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.ค. 2024
- Join me on a journey through Middle-earth as we revisit "The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power" series one year after its debut. In this comprehensive analysis, we delve into fan responses, the show's departure from the source material, and the captivating character arcs that have shaped this epic tale.
🌟 The Rings of Power - 1 Year Later: As we look back on the first season of "The Rings of Power," we uncover the impact this series has had on Tolkien fans worldwide. From the awe-inspiring landscapes to the intricate lore, we reflect on how this show continues to redefine the magic of Middle-earth.
🎥 Fan Reactions: Discover how fans have responded to this bold adaptation of J.R.R. Tolkien's world. We explore the community's insights, theories, and discussions surrounding the show, shedding light on the diverse range of opinions that have emerged.
📚 Changes to the Source Material: Dive deep into the creative choices that have both delighted and challenged Tolkien purists. From character reinterpretations to narrative expansions, we examine how "The Rings of Power" has reimagined Tolkien's legendarium for a new generation.
🚀 Character Arcs and Evolution: Explore the evolution of beloved characters and the intriguing newcomers who inhabit this world. From Galadriel's journey to the rise of new heroes and villains, we dissect the character arcs that drive the heart of this series.
💫 Themes and Legacy: Beyond the stunning visuals and enthralling storytelling, we delve into the themes that resonate deeply with fans. From themes of power, friendship, and destiny to the exploration of familiar locations, we analyze the show's lasting impact.
Whether you're a die-hard Tolkien fan or a newcomer to Middle-earth, this video offers an immersive look at "The Rings of Power" one year later. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell to stay updated on all things Tolkien and Middle-earth!
Chapters:
0:00 - The Rings of Power... 1 Year Later
0:26 - The Tolkien Conundrum
4:56 - The Pacing
14:14 - Galadriel & Numenor
23:57 - Elrond & Khazad-Dum
29:33 - Arondir & The Southlands
32:41 - Nori & The Harfoots
36:29 - Legacy of The Rings of Power
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Boromir has roughly 20 minutes of screentime in Fellowship of the Ring, and you see what kind of character he is and how much he changes before the movie's end.
Galadriel only has 8 minutes and you feel the kind of being she is--immortal, ageless, powerful, and beautiful.
Galadriel in Rings of Power has EIGHT whole episodes and buttloads of focus on her, but not only does she try way too hard and fail to develop any kind of character, she never changes and it's almost NEVER portrayed as a problem.
I don't understand how ROP fans chose to justify Guyladriel of Season 1 by chanting "character arc/development." Like where? If there's any, the audience should have seen it. But the horrible script and dialogues failed to make the audience care. To make her sympathetic, change the stupid generic revenge plot.
Change the "revenge for my brother" to "searching for my missing husband (and daughter").
One problem with the revenge plot is that NO other elf goes for it. If the writers are real smartasses then they should have added new characters who are also vengeful....like what if the group that she lead in the beginning are group of elves who also have traumatic experiences (ex: being captured by Morgoth and tortured by orcs) who can't go back to their normal lives so them relating to each other's struggles, sticked with each other, and there goes Guyladriel's little band of miserable elves lol. Still ridiculous but if you're gonna ignore the lore then why not write something like this?
Why do Guyladriel need to be isolated and why is she this messed up? The backstory they gave us is not enough to justify making Guyladriel into a bitter karen. Even the canon Galadriel have darker past than her. Canon Galadriel lost all of her 3 brothers and many many relatives + all the family dramas of the House of Finwe.
And as for "character arcs" if at the start of the show she comes across as almost literally a 20 something with a lot to learn and lacking needed experience in order to eventually gain wisdom, fine except that is not her. But, dark as much of her distant (to us) past was and the grief and pain she suffered... she is to us anyway VERY OLD and powerful and presumably already very wise and compassionate. The immature, damaged, obsessed even petulant Galadriel just does not fit. No doubt there would be a lot of Elf-level evolution in her world view between this era and how she is in Lord of the Rings but the "arc" such as it would be would be too subtle for us humans to pick up on easily. So, they mangled and reworked a major character, made her more "human" to fit into their TV level story telling... as excellent as their production values were... the result is still that they seem to have dressed a TV level storyline in major movie garb. Sad fail...
If it looks good and has the right title associations and character names = big money and success. Hollywood franchise thinking with a mistaken narrow formula vision. @@queenberuthiel5469
Typical modern woman main character, she is flawless, the only problems in her life stem from outside influence and she merely needs to get rid of them to be the perfect person she already knows she is.
All the while being totally smug btw. And it’s both men and women writing them like this. I seriously can’t think of a single female main character that has a personal character flaw that is addressed as a negative by the show and that she gets over during the story.
Like yeah, people like Rey or Galadriel of ROP obviously have flaws, but they’re never acknowledged as that. Being arrogant for example is never seen as a problem but rather as the story actually believing that she is as superior as she thinks she is and doesn’t need to change.
Ah but Peter Jackson's LOTR was made with love first of all and faithfulness to the source material. RoP was an abomination.
PS Jackson really is the gift that keeps giving; thanks to him we have a n NEW Beatles song!
Galadriels main characteristic in lotr was wisdom just like gandalf. Their age, experience and mission to bring good was the common and dominating trait of their character.
Rop galadriel does not behave like age old entity, she behaves like a teenage bitch that does not have the capacity to learn anything.
That is my opinion
Peter Jackson didn’t “betray” Tolkien. He adapted the books into movie format the best that he could. Amazon had no intention of doing this. All they wanted, their entire goal of the show, was to make the Lord of the Rings their own thing and start a new franchise they could milk for years to come. Any “lore” that may be infused into the story exists only as a facade to convince existing Tolkien fans to watch the show. They took the very core of what made Lord of the Rings so cherished, the struggle between good and evil, and butchered it beyond all recognition. Frodo, Aragorn, and all the other characters in Tolkien’s world were ready to give their very lives for the safety of Middle Earth. The Rings of Power destroyed that notion, betraying the very soul of what made Lord of the Rings so great.
I cannot convey how disappointed I was with this show. There was so much potential, so much promise, and all of it was squandered trying to turn the Lord of the Rings into something it wasn’t. Unfortunately I can’t say I’m surprised. The current trends in Hollywood and big budget movie and show making in general seem to be milking existing franchises for all they are worth before moving on to the next one and rinsing and repeating. Be it Star Wars, The Witcher, Game of Thrones, Marvel, even the Disney princess movies, it’s just really disheartening to see so many beloved franchises treated with such utter disrespect and in some cases even pure, deep seated contempt for the original material.
@@anni.68 How? How is it faithful to Tolkien? I can count the number of lore accurate things in this show on one hand.
@@anni.68I don't think that word means what you think it means. Tolkien's themes and underlying messages are at best missing if not completely reversed.
You're just right.
@@pageachatter229 Don't try to discuss with these people. It's like trying to get blood from a rock.
@@anni.68 "There is no such thing as Lore" is a wonderfully stupid thing to say about an author who considered the published versions of his work to be the "authorized" version of them and who therefore spent YEARS perfecting his writing before showing him anything to his friends. A man who studied the Arthurian myth all his life and was saddened that it included so many contradictions and therefore attempted to create a legendary corpus that was perfectly coherent. A man who cared more about his made-up world than the real-life politics of Europe. A man who meticulously created entire languages, entire cultures and several thousand years of history. Your level of shilling is beyond the moon, my friend.
How the hell could anyone sit through a rewatch. Heroic. I literally fell asleep every episode I attempted to watch.
The harefoots actually sang about how nobody gets left behind whilst leaving behind a family with a crippled father. Literally neanderthals took better care of their sick and crippled.
I would rather forget this exist honestly...
Smeagol
i love the visuals at least
@@thegoldman25
Zuko: That was... not very good.
Toph: I'll say
Sokka: but the effects were decent.
@@thegoldman25At least you can look past the visuals to see how bad the show is. Too bad you you can’t do that with the Disney Sequel Trilogy.
It’s garbage.
I have several problems with the show, but here's my three main ones:
> Galadriel. Thanks to the replies, I realized that she is literally a genderbent Feanor, but the writers forgot that the abrasiveness, pettiness and suicidal arrogance are actually toxic flaws.
> The creation of the Rings. Why did they have to aim so low? I always imagined that the creation of the rings was more about the _process,_ involving alchemy/sorcery and all the incantations and intentions put into them, rather than simply the metallurgy. It takes away their mystique of being all-powerful relics capable of bending reality, when here they're just just shown to be a repellent for magic-elf-cancer or whatever's wrong with them.
> Compressing the timeline robs Sauron of his menace. He goes from a monster that held Middle Earth in a reign of terror for over 1000 years to some guy that caused trouble for a couple years and then got his finger chopped off.
Galadriel is actually around 8000 plus years old.
Because the show was written by millennial upstart brats who sip soy lattes at Starbucks.
Magic elf cancer 😂😂😂😂
@@gonaldocr24😂
ROP should be focused on how Sauron infiltrated and deceived the races. He should be the main character.
One of the big problems with the elf/woman relationship is that it doesn’t acknowledge the seriousness of it. The interracial relationship is seriously controversial in this world. Aragorn and Arwen are literally the third couple EVER in the history of middle earth. Every one of those relationships if fraught with tension and heartbreak because of the nature of it, whether the immortal has to watch their loved one die live on without them, or the immortal ends up dying and the family of the immortal is grieved by their loss. The human usually has to prove themself enormously to the elf’s family before there’s even a hint of approval. But in this relationship there’s none of it. They just suddenly like each other for apparently no reason. And there’s no gravity behind it. I didn’t sense any chemistry either. It’s literally so pointless.
And this is one of MANY examples where RoP blatantly copied the “formula” of Lord of the Rings. ✅ Elf + dwarf friendship, ✅ elf + human romantic relationship,
✅ hobbit + wizard friendship, ✅ mysterious rugged guy who’s really smart for some reason (Halbrand is supposed to look like Aragorn in FotR), to name a few. Instead of creating new and unique relationship dynamics they just used the same ones that already existed all over again, assuming that because it worked in Lord of the Rings and people liked it, it will likewise work and be liked in this, without really considering WHY those relationships and character types worked in the original.
As much I like stories not changing because they are so beloved, if this is some type of prequel or spin-off, a little creativity in the dynamics is needed. Give us the world and the core message, but give us a fresh new take in the plot. It's a mixed bag, but it's like the showrunners want to copy LOTR badly, but they also want to be their own thing. You have to pick one.
RoP didn't copy the formula, it's the exact same formula because the author is the same...J.R.R. Tolkien. To be clear, RoP, LOTR and the Hobbit are all adaptations from Tolkien's legendarium. So while your understanding of the complexities of interracial relationships in middle Earth are correctly observed, you are unwittingly saying is J.R.R. Tolkien copied from himself. RoP feels like it copied because it's from "The Silmarillion," which houses the core legendarium whose events take place prior to the Hobbit and LOTR. RoP takes place in the 2nd Age, LOTR and the Hobbit take place in the 3rd Age. Have you even heard of "The Silmarillion?" Weird that you could be this deep into the lore of Rings of Power and not even the relationship dynamics aren't newly created by the creators of the show. It's Tolkien's. All of it.
and then even cast Elrond as a hobbit version of Orlando Bloom😂Yes, that actor does have a little bit resemblance to Orlando but ten times less prettier😂
@@yeahaboutthatthough3656 a lot of the characters and relationships in RoP are not directly from The Silmarillion (I’ve read it), they’re made up. And in fact, RoP blatantly omits existing characters and relationships from the Silmarillion (Galadriel’s husband and children for example) as well. Sure any number of these made up relationships COULD exist in the Tolkien universe, my point is not that they couldn’t have happened in a different age all over again or whatever.
My point is that the writers were lazy and didn’t think up any NEW dynamics that also could have also existed in the Tolkien universe. Why is the elf/human/ or elf/dwarf (non-canonical) relationships the only ones to ever be explored? What about dwarves and humans? Humans and hobbits? Elves and hobbits? It’s unoriginal and lacking creativity and ingenuity. It’s precisely because this takes place in an earlier age that it would make more sense to write relationships with different dynamics instead of desperately trying to fit this monstrosity into the mould of a preexisting story. It’s like they had a checklist of all the character types and relationships they needed and came up with cardboard characters to fill them regardless of how much sense they actually made in the plot and whether they had any real meat to them (which they did not).
@@elizabethm4450 Respectfully, I'd like to push back a bit as it seems you're debating an argument I didn't make. I've been an annual reader of the Silmarillion myself since 2014. I know certain characters and relationships in RoP aren't original to "The Silmarillion." While I'm open to discussion, constructing an argument based on ideas I didn't express appears to be a bad-faith approach to an otherwise civil discussion.
To your points about the perceived "lack of creativity" in RoP's relationships, it's crucial to consider a key distinction. Under UK copyright laws, protection extends for 70 years posthumously. Consequently, much of J.R.R. Tolkien's work won't enter the public domain, allowing for broader creative exploration, until 2043. RoP writers are contractually bound by current Tolkien Estate licensing agreements, imposing strict rules and guidelines. Researching these contractual obligations before dismissing derivative works as "unoriginal" might be insightful considering the essence of copyright is to safeguard original intellectual property, and RoP, along with other works, is intentionally constrained in creative scope for at least the next two decades. Christopher Tolkien's contributions may even extend these constraints into the latter part of the century.
The Best Line Of The Rings Of Power:
RandompersonwhoIforgotthenameof: "Why do you keep fighting?"
Galadriel: "Because I cannot stop".
So inspiring!!
Internet: why are you making another season of this crap
Amazon: because I cannot stop
In Tolkien's work, the cardinal sins seems to be pride that hurts others, vengeance, and generally not acting with understanding and compassion. Every time a character exhibits these flaws, they must face some sort of punishment. This is so prevalent that it is practically a law in Tolkien's universe. And I'm not just talking about the blatantly evil character- this applies to the heroes too. The showrunner seem to have missed this entirely.
It's almost like they're saying "It's okay to be cruel and vindictive as long as you think you are in the right." Sauron would have approved of this message. Good job.
That's because it is what they personally believe. The Greater good outweighs all the lesser evil for power is the only truth.
I agree ur 100% right. Galadriel might as well walked into Mordor and taken the thrown she is pure evil and stupidity.
Honestly, when you think about it, Galadriel's pride _did_ cause her great suffering-if she had just left for Valinor as she was supposed to then Sauron wouldn't have returned.
So her punishment was getting what she wanted in _the worst way possible._
Yeah it's so current day. As long as you're a woman or suitable minority it's fine to be violent vengeful etc.
It's the mindset of activists...the end justifies the means.
What is the main problem of the show - and the most significant “mark” of a bad writing - is what I call “false tension”. The author establishes some problem: a conflict, a danger, something that makes tension - and then just drops it. Nothing has consequences and all these “false tension” periods are extremely short: say, the problem is established in ep1 and forgotten in ep2. In RoP the plot of the whole show is made of false tension shticks:
If Elrond loses the competition he will be banned from the Dwarven realm forever - no, that’s okay, nobody mentions it ever again. We have to leave the village and hide behind the walls of a stronghold if we want to live - nope, actually, we should leave the stronghold and go back to the village. Dwarven miners are trapped! - never mind, they are fine. Bronwin is wounded and going to die! - seconds later she is okay. No one should notice that Miriel is blind - next scene she is wearing a blindfold. And so on and so forth. It seems that it is the only way to move the plot forward that the screenwriters know.
these are actually really great points, I'm gonna start using this going forward, thank you!
So true! Watching this show reminded me of the stories I used to write when I was 10 😂 Just a series of erratic events like "And then this happened! And now this! Nevermind, they're ok. Now they go into the haunted forest!" 😂
@@FelarofTheMearh haha yeah we’ve all been there 😆
I didn’t even watch it and you summed it up quite nicely.
The main problem of the show is that every single storyline is a plotpoint that can fit right at home in Riverdale. I came to watch a grand heroic romance in the tradition of the great Eddas and Sagas, not sister-got-into-college-but-I-didn't and other adolescent suburban problems.
I’m surprised you didn’t touch more on Halbrand and how the show is trying to turn Sauron, the literal embodiment of self servicing evil, into a “morally gray anti hero with flaws”. Once that reveal happened and I heard their plans for his character in the future seasons, I tapped out big time
That's not unlike how J.R.R. Tolkien wrote about him in The Silmarillion though. He was written as skilled in the arts of friendly deception and manipulation. Overall, Sauron's deceptions were subtle, exploiting the desires and weaknesses of different races and individuals to further his dark designs. I didn't love RoP, but I didn't tap out because I recognize it's merely an adaptation, not a new story.
My issue is not with what he does but how the show feels about him. The show runners literally said in an interview that they are exploring Sauron as a morally nuanced anti hero type instead of how Tolkien described him as “as close as one could be to pure evil”. It’s like if they did a series about how Palpatine was actually morally complex and saw himself as the hero. Bollocks
@@rabbidsquerllz13 I mean the idea is not bad because as its said in the similarian he also nearly turned back too good which is a far cry from the totally evil person his master was. Where they made the mistake was having that version of Sauron in the show. By the time of the show he is full blown evil and should have been treated as such.
Honestly I'm rooting for Sauron in this continuity. Nobody can make their own decisions freely and wisely it seems.
With prequels, reboots, remakes or in between movies, Peter Jackson should make one last Middle Earth movie about the battle of Dale, Erebor & the Woolland Realms of Mirkwood. During which the battle for Minas Tirith was happening, make the movie a 3 hour & a half epic. No 2 part movie, just one last epic Middle Earth battle movie.
As a Tolkien book nerd, one of the most painful things is knowing how this Series must seem to non-nerds, and what it tells about the whole Arda-Universe. They'll never know many great characters and stories the universe holds, that could have been made into great shows ... including stuff that RoP touch a little. The Ring War, Feanor and his brothers, Beren and Luthien, Tuor, The children of Húrin, The end of Gondolin, Isildur, the history of Númenor. This chance to let everyone know how timeless, dark, complex, non-fantasy, epic, funny, sad humanity-explaining, philosophical the stories in this universe are, has been WASTED. It could have been like House Of The Dragon, like Breaking Bad, like The Dark Knight. But they opted for THIS.
I just enjoyed the movies even though it cuts many things from the book. But RoP, doesn't have a soul or respect for the book.
Be thankful that they didn't, they would've butchered it for sure ..
Here's my problem with the Elrond-Durin story line. I liked the idea of flashing out the way elves perceive time and the problems that come with that, like not being there for Durin's important life events. I liked how Durin is upset and how Elrond apologizes after Durin explains it, cuz that means he realized something that otherwise he might have not known. So I really like that an elf comes to understand the impact time has on other races.
The problem is that they used Elrond to do this. He is the only elf you can't use for that purpose. His father was a mortal and so was his TWIN BROTHER. If any elf has any understanding of how time goes for other races, how dying of old age works and how important it is to be there for mortal beings, it's Elrond.
And if the show wouldn't have shown his lineage, maybe I could forgive it. But no, they wanted the cake, so there is Elrond in the Numenor history library thingy with the first king of Numenor, aka his twin brother.
This show just wanted the names and treated everything else like an afterthought. I still maintain my opinion that it's purpose was money laundering. Literally the only explanation I can find for this showvs existence
EXACTLY! Elrond knows the problems of mortality, he is Half-elven the Peredhil who had mortals among his ancestors and also he was born in later First Age near it's end, so he is fairly young especially for Elves, in Second Age :) an ancient elf, an older one would have worked better for that purpose...and here I though that it should have been a friendship of Celebrimbor and his dwarven friend Narvi in focus :)...while the Durin, which should have been only one at a time, Durin III could have been the young prince (while his father the king has some other Norse name, and later when Durin becomes king Durin III who is reigning when rings are forged he receives the first of the Seven Rings). Also the ring influence could have later worked for drama in the relations between the elf friend and him and so on. In general though that rock smashing contest was kind of ridiculous :), I mean a ritual of that sort, pff and also named Sigin-tarag, which is just the name of the dwarven clan, the Longbeards, Durin's Folk :). Elrond maybe would have worked better as an actual ambassador to Numenor :) (because instead of happening on accident there, in contrived way it would work better to have someone send there on purpose, so for instance someone, even Galadriel if they had to would be send as an emissary for diplomatic reasons, heh, the character of Galadriel as she is sorely needed lesson in diplomatic dealing hahaa! Elrond due to his personal ties with Numenor would have make much more sense!
That is one major problem with this plotline; the second problem I have with it is that Durin is so angry that Elrond missed his wedding and the birth of his children... did he not think to send a message to his good friend that he was getting married? Durin has to reach out as much as Elrond does, or it feels wrong. Now, being upset because Elrond only comes to visit on special occasions would work.
@@Silvershadowfire yep! Correspondence, a letter, a messenger bearing news (we do talk about the royal heir wedding :)) and considering that the Elves of Eregion are the closest neighbors in general it seems kind of weird that they would not have any sort of regular contact at least through this...though the journey itself from Misty Mountains/Hithaeglir and Lindon which is well...quite a distance away on the coast, hundreds of miles away, so journey would take weeks at best if not up to a month.
But then it also makes one think, twenty years or so is said to be the time gap since they last saw each other I think? Well this is even for a Dwarf not that huge time....I mean by dwarven standards a 20 years is not even enough for a child to grow up :) a 30th something dwarf is still considered too tender for hard work or battle :) and adulthood is probably still ways off in official terms (in this world even Hobbits who are slightly more longlived, also become adults by 33 years old :) only common mortal men would be having normal lifespan) so technically 20 years is not that big Dwarves can live up hundreds of years, but still indeed it would require to have communication going that major event in the life of a friend is coming and distance itself would make additional gains to the time passing :).
Again the world it's taking place doesn't have the modern tech and the quick ways of communication are something else entirely (telepathy, seeing stones the palantiri that only allow to see at far distances) and these are special instances, other way the communication and exchange of news happens the normal traditional way...someone has to travel to bear the news or pass it on, messenger, errand rider, emissary in official business, envoy that would be natural in any contacts between established realms/kingdoms with diplomatic ties and one would expect that diplomacy would play some role before....I mean unless the show is so stupid to imply that before Elrond comes along there was no normal contact between Elves and Dwarves :), hell the biggest idiocy of the plot is how the Dwarves are unwilling to do something that is the most natural thing for them to do...TRADE their mined goods, and mithril trading would be something they would jump at the very opportunity!
Dwarves would be ecstatic to mine and trade mithril...indeed in lore the discovery of mithril is the logical cause why the elven realm of Eregion even exists in the first place! It's a case of 'gold rush' scenario, where a new resource is discovered...and then bahm a sudden wave of those eager adventurers and those seeking opportunities for it's exploitation come along, new settlements are established to help in the trade of it, this sort of economic cooperation and partnership is coming along naturally....hehe but the show tries to paint a wholly different picture.
This trade should have existed even officially before the mithril was discovered! For Dwarves were trading with Elves already since before in First Age (but for that I guess one would need to KNOW the lore in order to understand that :)), and this trade would have the Dwarves travelling to Lindon for many purposes, hell then one would think of exchanging news on relatively 'regular' manner but still it would have to take into account the geography and the limitations of travel :).
Ok but... money laundering is the only reason you can think of? My guy it's Lord of the Rings, what they truly wanted was money, it's as simple as that, Amazon execs thought "Hey this is an extremely well known IP, let's use it to bring in some cash and boost Prime", then they hired writers who probably would just nod at their every demands cause god forbid they hire someone with an actual vision for the franchise, and that's how we ended with a show that just checks boxes of what focus groups tell executives is safe and easy, actual quality be damned when they believe the title alone was going to bring mountains of gold
That's the reason this show exists, a greedy company wanting a "product" to make them loads of money, and hiring people who would follow their every order to make it "easier" for themselves, thinking success was guaranteed.... hey just like a fantasy villain
if felt as they didn't really read the book. They wanted to have a woke story. and so they use the best person to do it. Galadriel. And then they screw it up. Galadriel is one of the wisest being. She is in the white council and knew Saruman was wrong for the job. while her rest of her family went to war, and quest, she stayed home to protect the elves. Notice, she is the only one that is in middle earth that is alive. The male members of her family were idiots.
It really doesn’t make sense that Galadriel would be this driven by rage since she knows her brother will be brought back to life in the undying lands…
@@anni.68 OK. But because of the nature of Finrod's noble death, The Silmarilion says Finrod walks free with his father in Valinor. Galadriel may not KNOW that Finrod is out and free, but she must know that it is POSSIBLE, and she can see her father Finarfin and other relatives for sure. Besides, what is the point of trying to kill a Maiar? They are more unkillable than Elves are!
@@anni.68 FWIW, on page 176 of The Silmarilion, after describing how they buried Finrod's body, it says "But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar."
@@anni.68but she knows she will eventually see him
@@timmymarqueschen5018Correct
By that logic no christian should ever be upset about someone dying because they'll see them again in heaven.
I'm usually not a fan of fan-fiction. But I'm convinced that if you'd put a handful of very passionate Tolkien fans together that have no experience in screenwriting they would've put out a better story. For me this show is the perfect example of "What not to do when screen-writing".
Then you might like "Born of Hope" and "The Hunt for Gollum," both of which are available on TH-cam.
What also puzzles me: Galadriel is already married at that point in time and her husband has dissappeared. We hear about that during S1 at some instances.But she doesn't care the slightest about him (more about the tempest in her from the extra hot Burritos she had at breakfast...)
Doesn't she also have a daughter by this time?
@@Elora445 Not sure, would have to look it up.
@@Elora445the timeline is greatly condensed and muddled in this show, but I believe yes, she should.
She is a strong, independent wahmen, she don't need no man
@@Elora445 the time line is a mess in the show, but let's get some reference. Celebrían, Galadriel's daughter, was most likely born in SA 300. Eregion was funded in SA 750. The three rings were finished in SA 1590. Elendil was born in SA 3119. This mean that Celebrían was 450 years old when Eregion came to be, 1290 when the three rings were created, and 2819 years old when Elendil was born. So yes, she already had a daughter and a husband, and they were already leading a group of elves as lord and lady.
Halbrand not being a reverse Aragorn story, where he is the king that was promised but fails, is such a missed opportunity. Him being Sauron was too predictable.
Yeah it would have been pretty cool to see him get manipulated by Sauron as Annatar to take a ring of power to defeat that Adar. Like he knows Annatar isn’t trustworthy and there’s a price to pay for getting a ring but he does it anyway because he has no other choice to save his people. Then later he finds out that it was just sauron manipulating him and he was the one telling Adar to attack. But at that point the ring has already corrupted him a little and he’s a hero to his people. Kinda like if he was in the situation Galadriel was in at the end of the season. Like shit I just helped Sauron but i can’t say anything because that would make me look bad plus deep down I want the power.
how is he a king that was promised the village is in the middle of mordor and they haven't had a king in over thousand years. Thats just a misdirection by the showmakers. they had no idea what they were doing.
It's sole purpose was to make the audience convinced fake gandalf was sauron.
That is literally the only reason why its in the series.
@@juusovuolle8251Why would Galadriel even recognize the sigil of some long dead human dynasty in a far away land? It strains belief. But at least she's old enough. When Halbrand gets to pre-Mordor, everyone just accepts him even though there apparently hasn't been a king there for dozens of generations. That breaks belief.
That is a bad goal from the get go. If you're going to have a king that was promised, you can't have it be a king of one half torn down village, and you can't have none of the folks there even remembering the lineage, and then all of a sudden have some random stranger show up and then everyone just randomly goes along with it. From set up to execution, it was so half-baked that saying that there ever even was an opportunity to miss is overselling it.
Adar should've been Sauron. Not Halbrand.
You actually rewatched this thing? You deserve a raise, that's a seriously tough chore.
I could not watch the first episode again. I could hear my heartbeat slowing.
I only managed a total of 35 minutes, in two tries, of the first episode. The man must be a masochist.
i hated it. and i watched it 3-5 times already. Mainly to see all the failed things lol
I gave up 15 minutes into episode 3 then cancelled Amazon even though it was 12 months free with my home energy and internet bundle lol.
Dedicated critics/commentators suffer for their craft!@@JCO2002
The whole galadriel thing just feels like the writers desperately trying to make her a strong female character in the way Hollywood thinks they should be written. It sucks.
Here’s a hot take. What if they make Halbrand the main protagonist and make us get very invested in him. And then end the series with a surprise. At almost the same time as they reveal Gandalf.
I genuinely feel bad for so much of the production crew that probably worked their hardest for this show, so much from the sets, to the incredible music, to even a good amount of the effects look very impressive, specially for a TV show, honestly it's even directed well and has some beautiful cinematography in a lot of episodes... it really shows how writing is the primary element that brought everything else down
The directors were the writers, so they were responsible for the plot, characters, and pacing. I think you mean the Director of photography did a good job, which I agree.
Bad fight choreography.
@@Elemiriel "Directors were writers" um... actually no, J. A. Bayona, Wayne Che Yip and Charlotte Brändström directed the episodes and none of them were on the writing team
Directing and writing are not the same thing
J. D. Payne & Patrick McKay were the main writers and showrunners
The cast was also a mess.
Elves are meant to be these tall, glowing people.
Lean, but strong.
Not trying to be insulting, but Elrond made me think of a hobbit... constantly.
They also tried to make the established characters "younger": Elves do age up to adulthood, they just don't age anymore after a certain point (if I remember right, they count as adults at 100 years, but actually stop aging before that).
So Elrond and Galadriel should've had a certain wisdom and age to them far beyond mortal races, but they appear far too "childlike".
Their relationship also confused me.
As far as I know, Elrond married Galadriels daughter, but that's it. No best friend bracelets in sight at all.
It's like they flew over the pages and took whatever they liked from the books and yet failed to truly understand it's meaning.
Ps: You wanna make a series about the second age, you need the rights to the Silmarillion. It's as easy as that.
Pps: Not that it was a great idea to start with the second age to begin with.
They could've started the series off like the movies, by talking about the background in little flashbacks: Eru creating the Valar, the world, the different races (not the dwarves, he just gave them "the juice of life"), the trees, Morgoth!
Then they should've continued with the first age, because who doesn't want to see a human being badass enough to kill a dragon at least 4 times as big and strong as Smaug (With a sword! With nothing but a damn sword, I mean how badass is that?). 😂
Exactly, I feel bad for Bear McCreary
I still don't understand how a handful of solo youtubers can make better stories, than whole teams of paid writers.
It's much easier to 'fix' a story than to craft it from scratch. Not saying the writers of this show were any good, but it's a general rule. I read the line once 'great novels aren't written- they're edited'. And it's true. I also suspect modern production schedules just don't allow writers the time to go back over their material again and again to find fixes and tweaks to improve it. First draft of every story is always awful- ask any professional writer XD
@@Eviscerator03 but the story was already there
@@CeToxihuitl They didn't buy the rights to the Silmarilion so couldn't use most of it.
It's also unclear how much of the story problems are a result of meddling from 'non-creatives' such as marketing, or even from other writers not agreeing on certain parts. It's easier to write something when it's just you writing, with no real pressure on how good it is. It's even easier to write a critique than it is to write a story. Often times with bad writing in shows like this it's the best the writers could do with the circumstances they had. There's a good reason they've been striking.
@@Eviscerator03 If they didn't have enough IP to craft the story, then should they have made it? If you don't have all the material to build a bridge, do you half build it and call it a day?
I think that you’re ideas for improving the motivations for Galadriel are excellent; not only would it make us root for her as a character and give much more weight to her decisions, but that personality would align much more closely with the Galadriel of Tolkinien lore. And I would go further-why does she have to fall at all and become vindictive, cruel, and spiteful? It would be enough for her to try to do the right thing but have her wisdom clouded by her desire to take vengeance for her brother and accidentally aid the rise of Sauron. Her character flaw becomes willful ignorance to achieve her goals despite her great wisdom instead of a brainless tough girl persona, and she actually experiences the consequences to boot! I frankly can’t understand why they decided to turn Galadriel, one of the greatest elves remaining on Middle Earth, into a stereotypical tough Marvel heroine with anti personality.
And a side note: the elf-human romance is a complete disgrace. This is NOT something that happens on a whim in Middle Earth. It utterly cheapens the depth and brilliance of Beren and Luthien’s relationship as well as that of Aragorn and Arwen. For Tolkien, those relationships served as pivotal events in his mythology, shaking the very foundations of the world and highlighting in the most powerful way the greatest theme in Tolkien’s works: sacrificial love! In any other fantasy story, sure, whatever, throw your inter-race romance in, the fans love it, who cares. But NOT in Middle Earth. Not in Tolkien’s world. Of the hundreds of lore elements that this show butchered, this might be the worst, and I’m not exaggerating.
It really does show them (the showrunners) to be liars when they claim to be such big fans themselves. Otherwise they just have to be complete idiots but of course those are not mutually exclusive options. I don't expect that season 2 will be any measure better enough to not be a repeat flop even with different people at the helm. Because their manifesto hasn't changed. If they wanted to make a diversity focused girl-boss movie they could have easily done so without LOTR in the title. They betrayed fans but they don't think they did anything wrong so they won't apologize and correct it. Expectations are very low.
The biggest issues for me were realted to scale. Time, distance, area, population size, the volume of boat holds ...none of these things were established and the world felt empty and unestablished
The Rings of Power also lacked one thing Game Of Thrones and Lord of The Rings both had ...
... Sean Bean
Who did Sean Bean play in GoT, and how long did the character live?
@@KororaPenguinned stark and he got beheaded at the end of the first season
HOTD did pretty well without him
And I'm guessing that if Sean Bean were to voice a My Little Pony, it could only be leadup to an episode on the subject of grieving?
I thought you were going to say “ talent.”
You said that you love the visuals and I get that for the CGI, its great. But the sets and some of the costumes look like when I visited Disney Land in Paris - cheap plastic everywhere.
That is also the main theme for me with this series: every other minute I get pulled out of the story: Sets look different than animations, some great acting then some horrible acting, scenes where people behave like a 5 year old thinks that people behave, fights straight out of Xena Princess Warrior, hundrets of horses on 3 ships, and on and on and on...
This is like 90s trash TV with an amazing budget.
No the sets and costumes are all very well done, honestly, it's a beautiful show. What makes them look plastic is the cinematography. There were many bad choices in lighting and filtering and shooting that stole any sort of epic look to the action. The scenes in Numenor *did* look like a Disneyland show. But it was the way they filmed it that made it look that way. Too much saturation in the colors, no dust in the air, too much clarity in the backgrounds, it was a cinematography problem. Even I could take the footage of the show as we saw it and tinker with it in some software add change lighting and contrast, colors, filters and make it look much, much cooler, more real. I have no idea why they didn't. Probably because they spent so much money on the sets that they wanted us to see every detail. But that's not how you make something feel real on screen. The Lord of the Rings sets weren't half as well done, but they had true professionals in cinematography and post production that turned those inexpensive sets into visceral realities.
@@AlbinoMutant Interesting. I have not looked too closely at those details, it was just my feeling a year later. Just makes it worse, I guess :). Additionally I remember in some scenes it was just how they put people into a shot that just looks like Disney Land - like LOOK bad guys! LOOK they argue! LOOK they like each other now! Childish.
You are a child
Among the show's many problems, the final confrontation between the Harfoots, Wizard and 3 Witch Chicks was one of the most confusing sequences I've ever seen on screen. Characters bounced all over the location or popped up without context, the cuts in the action were jarring and there was no point of reference for anything happening. It was so confusing that I honestly thought my internet had glitched and the show had skipped forward by accident 😂
Hey, at least we know that not Gandalf is "good".
One of my pet peeves is when characters don't communicate or withhold information for no reason. At the very end of the series, there is NO reason why Galadriel doesn't share the Halbrand/Sauron reveal with Elrond, who literally shows up five seconds after he leaves and asks what happened. It would have been a hail mary buzzer shot attempt at the last second to show Galadriel has grown by admitting her wrongdoings and she didn't even do it then. ALSO, why would a character who's spent the entire series screaming about Sauron's return not IMMEDIATELY scream about it once she's proven right?
Also the weird random shot of Adar's horse getting up after it was knocked over completely took me out of it and made me laugh. It was so hilarious that they randomly cut away from hugely important dialogue to make sure we knew the horse actor is ok lol. And the SOUTHLANDS fade to MORDOR word art thing was so stupid. The writers oscillating between worrying we're too smart and are gonna guess their twists and thinking we're too stupid to recognize mount doom is jarring.
I Totally agree.
Galadriel not admitting or telling anyone it´s Sauron episode got me very perplexed on how they are going to resolve the issue in coming season. I mean, how could anyone trust her after that hmm
Glad you brought up the horse. That took me out of the moment as well. It was solely put in to show that the real-life horse wasn't hurt. Furthermore, the horse was tripped (if I remember correctly) something which would be quite difficult to do rather than injure or kill it with a weapon. That would have been more logical but you "can't" show animals being hurt even in fantasy. The entire falling over + getting up scene with that horse felt so artificial and out of place.
For me, the disjoint between Rings of Power and Tolkien was WAY bigger than just not adhering to Tolkien "lore". The problem was that series didn't adhere even remotely to Tolkien's most fundamental vision. Tolkien was primarily writing about Good and Evil, and the quintessential traits associated with Goodness were loyalty, selflessness, guilelessness, and honor. Not every Good character was perfect...some were flawed by pride or doubt...but any hero of Tolkien's would throw themselves on a grenade to save a friend.
The whole worldview of Rings of Power is toxic to the Tolkien worldview. I can't think of a character in Rings that wouldn't put themselves first. A bunch of amoral guileful post-modern antiheroes. Those simply do not exist in Tolkien. Within minutes of the series' start our brains are polluted with the image of a Galadriel who would leave one of her followers to die in the cold because he can't keep up. Can you even IMAGINE Tolkien writing that behavior for any character but a base villain? The writers of Rings are so profligate with their psychopathic characters that I wonder about their own psychological makeup. Can they even distinguish between Good and Evil? Were they even aware that Galadriel or the Harfoots casually leaving friends to die the instant they become inconvenient was mentally sick? Seriously, if you are going to hire someone to write a Tolkien story, probably the first thing you should do is find out if they can distinguish right from wrong.
Galadriel leaving her troops to die in the cold makes even less sense when you consider that Galadriel was betrayed by Feanor when she agreed to follow him to Middle Earth and instead of sailing with him to her new home, she was forced to cross the Grinding Ice in the very north of the world where many Elves ended up dying from the cold and peril. Galadriel never forgave Feanor for so harsh a treatment. The idea that she would condemn her own troops to the same fate she herself was subject too is a complete misunderstanding of who she is.
@@gunkulator1 Wow that's a really good point...I never thought about that.
Absolutely this. It's not just lore. It's everything, from the most basic spirit of his world to the scope and the details. Its departure is so great, that it almost feels like someone took Batman, and made it into Star Trek, with Batman having the backstory and personality of an ensign in Starfleet. It's literally THAT different.
@@anni.68 Galadriel would never have lead a group of soldiers in this fashion in the first place. And the criticism is that she version was so self-absorbed she didn't realize one of her men was passing out. Real Galadriel would have calculated that possibility and planned for it weeks ahead of time, and she'd have been able to do that 2000 years younger than the show version was. Where in the books did it ever mentioned Galadriel was a petulant sword twirling insufferable child during the Second Age? Even in Valinor she was wise, if proud and ambitious. Show version removed the ambition, gave her a chip on the shoulder for no reason because female characters aren't characters now if they aren't bullied or told to go home by the Patriarchy or something.
@@anni.68 No. She is not.
Tolkien never describes Galadriel "as a warrior". Tolkien says elf-women abstain from war.
Tolkien says when the Eldar came across Men who had a tradition of warrior-women, they found the practice to be strange.
Not only is the mithril plot line contrived, it is also materialistic. Exactly the sort of plot amazon would be responsible for. Its a bacterization of Tolkien's lore, like the elves need their magic batteries changed.
What does this even mean? Galadriel wanted a kingdom of her own. She had that sort of ambition. I think many of the Noldor's had similar ambitions. And when you have a kingdom, you don't want some shabby place; you will make it beautiful. And to make it beautiful, you need material. Is that materialism?
uhh idk if you can blame Amazon for the showrunners' writing. Amazon also has The Boys.
And I didnt have a problem with the darkness creeping over Rivendell cuz it heralded Sauron was closing in. BUT that mithrail would just repel the darkness is a betrayal of the original magic system. Mithrail was just known for its beauty & hardness, a beautifl vibranium.
Tolkien would tell you that you don’t need to be an expert on something to know if it sucks 😂
Nothing is worse than waiting for a specific moment from the book and it not happening or to tell someone who watched it with you “oh well it’s not like that in the book”
Not only is the Harfoots' treatment of their lame or injured cruel, it's also counterproductive to their survival. There is no analogous real-world counterpart to this behavior; no nomadic tribe in history has ever behaved like this. Even the Fremen in Dune treat their sick and injured, distilling them for water only when they're beyond saving.
It would make sense IF they were actively running away from somethig.
In Russia up until 100 years ago it was common if out on a sleigh with the family and wolves chasing you to kick grandma off the sleigh to save everyone else. Several tribal groups tyrn out aick and wounded as resiurces for non-priductive members dod not exist and even in the last 100 years in severe hardships like Leningrad and Stalingrad people would kick out members of the family because they were starving but worse, they slso commutted cannibalism often exchanging family members with neighbors so they wouldn't have to eat their own.
@@elessartelcontar9415 It all makes sense now: the harfoots are russians...
Interesting that you should mention House of the Dragon when talking about changing plot points. GRR Martin had some firm words to say about people working out what was to come:
“And there is a temptation to then change it-‘Oh my god, it’s screwed up, I have to come up with something different.’ But that’s wrong, Because you’ve been planning for a certain ending and if you suddenly change direction just because somebody figured it out, or because they don’t like it, then it screws up the whole structure.”
That was one of the problems with RoP, they were so desperate to come up with something that no one would know in advance that the ended up causing some major problems.
If you're writing a good story, people will always figure out the broad strokes of what is going to happen. Because a good story isn't just one thing happening after another randomly. Your characters, done well, will be people with consistent outlooks and patterns of behavior. Your narrative will foreshadow important beats, seeds will be planted and later bear fruit, characters make choices and the consequences can be imagined. A true twist -- something completely unexpected -- is really just a gimmick, sort of like a cliffhanger is a gimmick. Both twists and and cliffhangers, used judiciously at key beats, can enhance a reader or viewer's enjoyment of the story, creating emotions. But too much of it can ruin the story or desensitize us to the emotions they intend to create. So I agree, a good story can certainly be predictable. I watch some movies and read some stories over and over again. I don't lose enjoyment because I know what's going to happen. I want to see it happen that's why I'm watching.
@@AlbinoMutant Indeed.
A good story is character driven. Understandable personality and motivations leading to logical choices and actions which moves the plot
So if we understand the character we can often work out what will happen, but this isn't such bad thing. Too many people focus on surprises and keeping the audience guessing, but not realising just how satisfying it can be for the audience to feel right and justified as something happens that they already thought would happen.
In a way it reminds my of Hitchcock talking about suspense.
If the audience doesn't know about the bomb under the table then it's a big surprise when it goes off. But if the audience knows and the characters don't then it's a big suspense as the audience waits for the characters to work out what they already know.
So if we know character A and we know fact B then we can work out how the character would react when they learn that fact, that gives us the suspense of waiting for them to find out, and the satisfaction of being right when they do.
@AlbinoMutant ASOIAF/GoT was excellent at that. Ned's execution, red wedding, etc... were shocking and unexpected, but they didn't come out of nowhere. We knew Joffrey was mad, Cersei being a power hungry asshole and so on. Ned was far too gentle and honorable and got caught and died. It's extremely logical, but we as the audience don't expect the good guys, the main characters, to be executed like that. It's unexpected, but it's not incoherent.
Sadly nowadays movies and series care more about shock value than about logic. I can remember Star Wars 8 making shock value moments for the sake of subverting expectations and they did it essentially every 20 minutes of movie. But the entire movie became incoherent for it.
It is both fascinating and frustrating for me to watch these kind of videos. I enjoy hearing people explaining how something can be improved, especially in regards to storytelling.
But, it is frustrating that billion dollar companies aren't able to get hold of people who are great at the very basics of storytelling, when you don't have to look further than TH-cam to find a bunch of people giving great advice. They pay screen writers, directors and producers to do worse jobs than what people on TH-cam do as a hobby.
Changing the source material and having a mystery just for the sake to have a mystery is the greatest mistake any showrunner can make. Often times, there is a good reason why things play out as they play out. Take game of thrones for example, the first couple of seasons and all the books that exist so far paved the way for a showdown between the night king and Jon. Yet, just for the sake of having a surprise, they suddenly changed from Jon to Arya. One of the great mistakes the last season of GOT did. Also, movies dont need mysterys to be great. I watched LOTR likely already 100 times, I am not surprised by any means by any of the plot points. Why do I still keep rewatching these movies? Because they are INSANELY GOOD. The writing, the locations, Peter Jacksons methods to build tension, the music, the acting, the costumes, practical effects, the attention to detail, you really get pulled into the world of middle earth. If you as a director feel that you desperately need a surprise moment for your movie/series to be good, that just shows, that everything else is lacking. Dont get me wrong, surprise moments can be great, as the red wedding in GOT and the death of Ned Stark in the first season have showed us, but a surprise may NEVER come at the cost of a good, logical and compelling story.
I would also argue that the Khazad Dum segment gave me one of my biggest disappointments BECAUSE Elrond, Durin, and Disa were so well done...that the way the tension between Durin and his father built just felt off. Like...we see almost no serious tension. Then there's the mithril explosion and he comes in griping about some fight he had with his dad. Then the episode ends with them reconnecting. If we'd SEEN the fight, then the back-and-forth of their relationship would be so much stronger, and the eventual rejection would land so much better.
Fully agreed that the whole Harfoot plot should have been moved to Season 2, where it might actually tie into the rest of the story. There is another connection point which is the precision guided lava projectiles from Mount Doom eruption destroying a few trees in the Harfoot grove and nothing else, hundreds of miles away. That is some precision shooting there, Tex.
There are so many boneheaded contrivances happening in the RoP that it beggars belief.
Lava auto aiming projectiles of doom, it was all in the plot. You clearly didn't watch close enough :D
Agree but would add that the issue is this is “Galadriel Show”, you hit on the Harfoots, but really nothing happens until Galadriel shows up. The writers want Galadriel at the heart of everything, since she does not interact with the Harfoots nothing meaningful happens. All the threads are in a holding pattern, waiting for Galadriel to show up and be the key for everything. That is why it’s boring and slow, no one can shine or have a hero moment except Galadriel, they are doing stuff but have to slow walk it waiting for Galadriel to show up and make it happen. I predict the Harfoot thread will also not be fruitful until she meets them.
I do not need the murdering Haarfoots at all.
It sucked because hobbits didn’t exist in the second age.
I think the writers of the show thought: “Game of Thrones had many different storylines, we have to do the same.”
"After rewatching the series"... WHAT? You suffered such a torture? That's serious dedication!
Watching this 1 year later... I'm still so disappointed with the show. I haven't thought about it at all since it aired and the thought of re-watching season 1 feels like torture. That says it all really..
Its sad because this failure impacts future LOTR lore movies or TV shows.
Don't forget - Amazon was not able to acquire the rights to the Silmarillion for adaptation. Only the appendices.
But “The Chosen”, a show about the early ministry of Jesus and his 12 apostles which is extremely scant still managed to pull it off. “The Chosen” is a critical mega hit.
I’m not even religious yet the writers’ storyline for the apostle Peter’s brought me to tears. It was so heart-wrenching. So when judging RoP on it’s own merit, it’s flaws is not lack of canon but a writing issue.
Amazon had the tv rights to LotR and its appendices.
Thank goodness for that.
Your change to have Galadriel hear a whisper that Sauron might be back instead of hunting him is so simple but I think improves that storyline so much because, like you explained, we see her at her best and makes her decision to jump off the ship more compelling
It's quite obvious why Galadriel was written like that. You see it in most modern shows. A narrative is pushed where the female lead character is perfect, strong and never makes mistakes right from the start. And the only thing which holds the female character back is society and/or evil/weak men.
So we have a Mary Sue story and instead of a character arc, we have kinda a flat line.
The shows I can think of right now which follow this pattern are Captain Marvel, the new Star Wars films with Rey, Rings of Power obviously and She-Hulk.
When you find yourself rooting for the villain (Adar), you know they fkd up
16:41 because Galadriel needs to be seen as this "strong and independent woman" so therefore, for the sake of girl power, at every turn she is strong and independent and combatting anyone who gets in her way rather than creating a contrast with her vengeful self later
I mean... the Galadriel in Jackson's movies was very independent w/o being a ***** sooo...
@@Elemiriel she was, and she worked incredibly well as opposed to the version in Rings of Power
I couldn’t agree more about the pacing being such an issue. I tried so hard to enjoy this show but it dragged for way too long. It wasn’t until maybe the last 2-3 episodes that I really became invested and then it ended
the pacing , yes. But also literally everything. the entire attack on the village didn't visually make any sort of sense, nor did the plots of any of the sub-storylines. You literally have orcs with arrows shooting 1 sec before and when Arondir steps 10 paces from the tree line, the orcs forget to use their bows.....it's almost like 10 people wrote the same scene, and you got one dude giving out memos to 2 people at a time, telling them to team up, go into a breakout session, and come back in an hour, and then we all mix the stuff from all 5 teams together, as long as we meet deadline, who cares?
Don't worry too much about us hardcore fans. We knew you weren't as deep in as we were when you pronounce his name "Tol-Kin" and not "Tol-keen". But despite our pedantry we are (at least I am) happy to see you making this video and having more people enjoy his works enough to make video essays about them.
Plus this is how I get to experience the show since I couldn't stomach watching it. XD
And for Tolkien, that was a spiritual struggle, and the movies portrayed that so very well. So the movies truly kept the spirit of Tolkien and his philosophy as part of the films which grounded them in Tolkien’s religious thought. It was subtle but it was very much there. It tied the films to the man. It was what Tolkien would have wanted, for sure. He wasn’t opposed to adaptations DONE WELL. That’s the key. Jackson and primary actors “got” Tolkien’s mindset and belief system
The makers of ROP don't understand Tolkien. They certainly don't understand the characters. There's no fixing this mess. The music was the only good thing about it.
So far, the show hinges upon the character of Galadriel, and she's been a pretty unsympathetic (many would say downright unlikable) protagonist. That's the biggest reason for its poor reception amongst a lot of fans imo. You laid that out very well.
And honestly.... messing up a character like Galadriel is truly outstanding in all the wrong ways
She's not only unlikable, she's psychopathic. The show starts with her willing to abandon her troops to die in order to find Sauron. She invades an ice troll's home and when it tries to defend itself, she kills it. When she captures Adar she promises to commit genocide on the orcs. How are we supposed to sympathize with her?
What I disliked most was Bronwyn and Arondir. Horrible actors, bad storyline, bad sets, bad everything.
And the hobbits weren’t much better.
She’s portrayed as a modern day ‘strong’ woman
@@Brinta3 I couldn't dislike them. They just don't provoke any emotion on me. They are barely characters. We know next to nothing about them and they have no personalities.
33:44 - They have resolved the mystery of the stranger: he’s undoubtedly Gandalf…
”If in doubt, Meriadoc, always follow your nose”, Gandalf (Fellowship of the Ring, Mines of Moria)
“When in doubt, Elenor Brandyfoot, always follow your nose”, The Stranger.
About the Southlands thing, there are more than a couple of villages in the Southlands. There are many, as well as larger settlements further south. They're not going to be adjacent to each other like modern towns and cities or even like unincorporated areas where you have settlement along the roads. They're going to be small settlements, miles apart. Tirharad and Hordern if you go by the placement on the map of the Southlands in the show, are about 50 miles apart, the distance from Boston to Providence along I 95. There are likely other small settlements on the way that have no impact on the plot, but can't be seen from the others. In medieval Europe, most settlements were several miles apart. If you were to take a drone video of a village in medieval times you'd likely see no signs of other settlements around. Keep in mind as well, the Southlands is not just latter-day Mordor but also Gondor, so on the other side of the mountains are other settlements as well. That being said, I'm not defending the show, it was a disappointment, but I find the argument that you have to show every farming village in the Southlands for them to exist a little funny. Plus the major settlements would have been on the other side of the mountains, in fact the show references Pelargir, a major port city.
You lost me at "parts that were good"
Ha ha!
I’d have to agree that mystery for the sake of mystery is a major shortcoming of the series. One of the best parts of the first season is the friendship of Durin and Elrond. For me it sparked an interest in discovering who Durin is. It’s fortunate in this case that there is a lot of information about him. Knowing his doom, how it is a consequence of his desire to help Elrond, makes the scenes of them together precious.
How many people I wonder realised that the red headed Elf kid who was annoying Galadriel at the start was Feanor?
I know from certain who individuals who have connections to the show that it was a nightmare behind the scenes. people were fired left and right, writers couldn't agree what story they wanted to tell, the show was originally about a young Aragorn, some wanted to adapt the Silmarillion but didn't have the adaption rights to the book, the Tolkien estate giving them a long list of things they could and couldn't do on the show such as referencing the movies (even though the showrunners wanted to connect ROP to the movies) writers being fired because they wanted to insert more woke elemets into the show and was met with disapproval, a Tolkien scholar being fired, COVID19 impacting everything, the originally being 10 episodes but somewhere being changed to 8 instead, Jeff Bezos allegedly visiting the set and was furious on what he saw and demanded changes to be made in the middle of shooting. All in all, this show was produced with everyone's hands tied behind their backs, not really knowing what they wanted to do and the clock was ticking, and the best they could come up with was fan fiction.
It makes sense. That's why they spent so much money in this piece of garbage.
The fact that Jef Bezos was dictating what should be done is enough said 😂
Stupid projects indeed. And stupid woke elements that didn't need to be there. Chaotic and nightmare show.
Fan Friction more like lol
Is really hard to believe, some people want to insert even more wokeness, and it was refused.
The plotline you described for Galadriel was what I was expecting to see when the show was setting up the plot. But no, I was very disappointed and confused. When she jumped off the ship I literally laughed out loud because it was so ridiculous.
I’m convinced that the scene where she talks about Celeborn was filmed separately and just thrown in. I can’t think of any other reason her husband was never mentioned before or after and that the cause of her villain arc was her brother who died a hero.
Same.
I feared for the show in the first few scenes when it showed her as a nasty little elf-brat ready to punch out some other elf-kid.
@@sonofherne Totally. That kind of behavior would be totally out of character in VALINOR, at least until Fëanor starts stirring up shit, which is why that ends up being such a big deal. Valinor should not have bratty kids with petty rivalries and grievances. That is importing assumptions from our sordid world into a literal godly realm.
Your proposed changes to Galadriel wouldn't work for one piece of Tolkien lore you might not be familiar with: Elves, specially the ones that lived in Valinor, know that the Valar and the Maiar are eternal. Unless the Valar kick Sauron out of existence (like they did with Morgoth), the elves simply know that Sauron is still around - in a diminished state, sure, but with the ability to recover and come back in time. Even after the destruction of the Ring, a portion of Sauron's spirit remains. Too weakened to do anything, but he's there somewhere. During the Second Age he did not put most of his spirit into the Ring, so he is way more powerful and dangerous.
Funnily enough, everything you felt was too contrived was a 100% show invention
If I had to describe this show in one sentence, I wouId refer to Bilbo: it feld thin, sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread.
Most of the show looks great then you realize on a re-watch how they cut a lot of corners. For example, the human solders are waring printed shirts instead of actual armor.
You would never know if they did the cinematography and post production right. What they did to the look of the show was criminal. It completely wasted the effort they put into set design. Made it all look like scenery from Walmart. Terrible choices.
I think you might need to get your eyes checked if you only noticed the horrendous costuming on a re-watch. Its plain as day even in the promotional material.
15th top viewed original show of 2022 with 9 billion minutes of viewership at only 8 episodes is hardly a failure.
What they did to Galadriel should be seen as a crime and all the writers should be charged and sent to jail.
I was more invested in this youtube video than the actual show. I didn't even watch beyond episode 4.
Random Film Talk explains how Elrond is an absolute bad friend for Durin, being used to betray his friend and telling his secrets indirectly. Interesting how different this friendship can be seen
The funny thing about the discourse about ROP is so many formed negative opinions without even watching the show. I can’t count how many people have just gone along with the hate instead of thinking for themselves. Good old group think.
After watching ROP, I actually cancelled my Prime subscription.
Here’s how I would change the series. Discard it and forget it ever happened
If you want a fantastic form of the story that could have been told in this show, i can suggest more the video series by Tolkien Untangled! They have such great comprehension of tolkien’s story telling, it is truly awe-inspiring
I agree. Rainbow Dave's series about Middle Earth's 2nd Age was wonderful.
It was absolutely incredible. So coherent and well thought out and with so much heart. They should delete the existing show and hire him as a show runner immediately.
Yessss rainbow Dave!
Yes! I really think he should write that script. If Tolkien fans come together, we can use AI to animate our own film and/or use crowdfunding to produce our own movie.
Yes! When he described his opening scene for the show, where it's Elrond with his twin brother Elros, who chose mortality over being an elf and was on his elderly death bed.... I actually started tearing up. Ah! What could have been....
The best thing about this show was making fun of it!
i wish it was good
@@thegoldman25sorry you don’t like it but at least millions do. Just don’t watch it. Problem solved.
@@jboot77 less than 40% of viewers watched the show to the final episode .. Enjoy your terrible show.
@@bigwezz bros pissed that people enjoyed it. Bigwezz probably has a small cock.
@@bigwezz lol yea that’s still 100 millions 😂 I def will though!!! Ashoka’s out maybe you could try shitting on that one!! Your kind love doing that!! Gobless!!
We love this moment the most "You have not seen what I have seen.. You have not drunk what I have drunk..." - oh, sorry, that's not from the series, that's from "The Rings of Powder" computer game 😉
Mistake number 2 - making young Elrond a wimpy librarian mixed with a civil servant
The moment you started to tell the changes u'd make in guyladerial story arc from somewhere between 18:00 to 19:00. I immediately started to see her differently in a positive manner. Goes to show what big a difference just a little bit of good writing can make.
When does Galadriel transition from a warrior elf to powerful sorceress? Her whole persona is so different. The depth at which she speak is like 2 different person.
I was watching a nerd of the rings' video about the rings of power when I got this video as a suggestion. Great content!
It's literally amazing to me that "Rings of Flour" commands this much attention. SUPPORT INDEPENDENT CREATORS. Screw 'Zon and screw gigantic corporate garbage companies.
"Before I start, I must see my end.
Destination known, my mind’s journey now begins.
Upon my chariot, heart and soul’s fate revealed.
In time, all points converge, hope’s strength resteeled.
But to earn final peace at the universe’s endless refrain,
We must see all in nothingness... before we start again."
🐲✨🐲✨🐲✨
-- Diamond Dragons (book I)
Great breakdown that gave new perspectives that I haven't heard before! I really liked your comparison between Galadriel and Frodo, and why it's hard to root for Galadriel. I also laughed at Halbrand being the king of the southlands - containing like 100 filthy and worn down hobos; and at the harfoots being cruel, leaving their people behind and having the audacity to read out the names of those who they had left behind lol.
Yeah, the whole world just felt so small. What mighty force did Numenor muster to send to the Southlands...a half dozen ships and a few hundred half-trained raw recruits? The mightiest human nation that ever existed in Middle Earth...
Gotta hand it to the writers. What a truly creative name for a kingdom, "The Southlands." And what a kingdom it is. I think we see all of two small unnamed villages, each filthy and decrepit.
I apriciate you honesty about not knowing the soruce material. its tragic that, even when ignoring the bad story, the story that they do tell is told poorly. if the second season isn't canceled, hopfully very few people wtach it.
I am really impressed, and happy to say so,
You, Sir, are incredibly articulate, in a most entertaining way!
Being an old guy and fan of LOTR, and other similar genre.
But of course LOTR, by far, the best.
Sadly, in modern media, everyone has a voice. Unfortunately too often it seems to weigh in favor of negativity.
Very impressed of how well balanced you presented your perspective, your effort for fairness was obvious.
I enjoy too few youtubers with similar quality of character.
You stand out, even among them.
Ok,enough with the compliments.
Though I never did too much deep diving, beyond the books, I have read enough about the background of the writer and the LOTR story world, to better appreciate & enjoy the story.
I spent a career as an Army Infantryman, and that means my Brothers and I have had a tremendous amount of "hurry up and wait" (idle time) over the years.
Reading of course, was the most popular way to use that time.
Funny thinking about it, people saw us as big tough Soldiers, deploying to some of the most dangerous places in the Middle East & North Africa, if only they knew how many times we'd have conversations geeking out on LOTR.
So many fun memories.
Once, there was a small town we had befriended, and often humor was an important part of our bond.
Once, we practically had most of the towns children, and more than a few adults helping us to find a rumored Legendary village populated by short, hairy footed people that live in a secret place called the shire.
My guys would share short stories with anyone who'd listen.
One of our interpreters, poor guy. Needless to say it really put a challenge to his skills. But he enjoyed pretty much every bit of it.
It really struck home the idea of the things that can be born from combating hardship.
Never planned, never even considered as a strategy,
Just some curious Town Folk asking about certain books they commonly saw Soldiers with.
Sadly, this was way more the exception than the rule, how we were received.
But, this was truly an unexpected joy.
I know this sounds corny & cliche, but we get too few wins, which made this all the more special.
Thank you for the effort on a great job you did for this video!
And hopefully my story was a little enjoyable treat for you, in return for the fine job you did.
I am so looking forward to becoming a Grandfather, especially when I get to share the magic of LOTR with my Grandchildren, one day.
Take good care Young Sir, keep em coming.
God Bless You!
Bro u should write script for future seasons ,man u have an unique talent.Bro u should pursue direction as a career.
That's the dream! Thank you for the kind words!
I love how well you explain all this, especially since I myself am so bad at it lmao. Now I have a vid to point my friends towards. The only thing about Halbrand I managed to vocalize is "Why the heck did they make Halbrand when Annatar is ALREADY A THING" and then proceed on a rant about how Hallbrand is a doormat the whole season and actually extremely incompetent just so people would have only the slightest doubt about him being Sauron (and it still didn't work, we all knew it). Instead they literally could have called him Annatar, make him so fucking charismatic that even the AUDIENCE, who KNOW what's up, fall for his crap, only for the inevitable to happen.
What was the reason, again, that they change so much of what actually happens? Something about not having rights to certain media so they can't actually do it right? How stupid is that???
They don't have the rights to any material where Annatar is specifically named and described. They only have the rights to LOTR and The Hobbit and nothing else.
@@gunkulator1 so basically they, ironically, cheaped out
@@gunkulator1 And yet recently the Lord of the Rings Online video game added an expansion, Before the Shadow, that includes a flashback that tells the story of the forging of the Rings of Power in Eregion, and of the One Ring. Since they do not have Silmarillion rights, they used a different alias ("Antheron") and told the story, as it is summarized in Appendix B, in a few minutes, better than Rings of Power did. Lack of Silmarillion rights is no excuse at all.
When i first watched the show i really liked it. However, the moment the mysteries were done and I actually had time to think about it, the show quickly derailed for me. It claims to be centered around the LotR world, yet much of it doesnt feel Tolkien, just generic fantasy. It also has a billion lore problems, and not just nitpicks, but genuine problems. Like, why did they focus on mithril being the solution when it was supposed to be more nuanced? Where are the 7 rings for the dwarf lords and the 9 rings for mortal men? Numenors maps show their port cities yet they treat middle earth as something they havent even touched before. Why are they implying the wizard to be gandalf when the blue wizards are the only ones that came to the east (yes, two wizards, not just one).
If anyone around me still enjoys it, thats fine, but I can't defend this anymore.
Can you point out something wrong with the writing or directing or plotlines
@@TheGreatestJediOfAllTimeAbsolutely everything.
@joC1997 Galadriel is way too different from what she is supposed to be. She's extremely brash for what is supposed to be a well aged, wise elf. It's not even interesting brash, she just shoves herself into situations without any thought, and the thing about people, especially elves, is that they don't change into polar opposites no matter how much growth.
Some other problems include the whole Sauron going on a raft, Galadriel jumping ship 1000s of miles away from shore with no plan, numenoreans saying the elves will take their jobs, elves talking in terms of "It is said" when they are defined by foreign to the concept of tall tales since they experienced those days. It's not the worst show, but it's terrible as an adaptation of Tolkien.
@anni.68 I guess I exaggerated the idea that elves were not tied to legends. I'm not in my prime when it comes to Tolkien knowledge, since I've moved onto different things for the most part.
@@Enriqueguionesterrible analysis.
The problem with the Galadriel storyline is that the timeline mashes together events thousands of years apart, so we have the Silmarilion Galadriel who is arrogant and power hungry and follows her bloodthirsty vengeful uncle to Middle Earth, then Galadriel in a much later time with Elrond (soon to be her son-in-law) when she shouldn't really still be like that. Both Galadriels existed, but they can't exist at the same time in this series.
My comments are in refrence to the Harfoots story line. Now I've not read any of the Appendecies or any other source materials, so I may be wrong in this assumption, and my comment comes from watching the LOTR and Hobbit movies. And to me in my opinion is that the Harfoot is important because it gives you the story of how the Istari (Gandalf) came into exsistance, and how he became friends to the hobbit race. It sets up a story that would bring you to how gandalf becomes close to the hobbits and the baggin's family. It doesnt get told that way because the series never gets to explain this in the future seasons episodes. This also sets up how Galadriel got tempted by the power of Sauron to be his queen. Which ties into the time that Galadriel tells Frodo when offered the ring of power in the Mirror fountian. That she would be Queen and all would dispair. The Final one of Arondir and Bronwyn break the Tradition by becoming lovers to setup the story of how Aragorn comes to be born. As he is half elf half human. Like I said I could be wrong on some of these points but after watching the movies, that is how I see these stories interlaced with the movies. The sad thing is that it won't be told because the series was cancelled. I think if Guillermo del Toro had told these stories they would have been a bit more telling in the stories, but again we may never know!
Unfortunately, even with your rewrite, Galadriel jumping off the raft would still be nonsensical and akin to wanted-death as she should have drowned (given the distance from any land).
This. I was genuinely going to give the show a chance and then Galadriel’s jump happened 😆 Silly Feanor and his merry band of kinslayers, why did they kill for ships when they could just swim.
I dont think the pacing alone will fix the series since the writers have also written the series in a way where the decisions feel sometimes way too simplistic or just plain silly. One of the silliest things for me in season 1 was when the mysterious (who is probably Gandalf) stranger said before the fight that "i am good". That doesnt feel like something that a character should be telling but it should be rather be shown through his actions. Also Galadriels decision to just jump off the boat and start swimming back towards the Middle-Earth just feels like something that doesnt fit into a triple AAA produced tv series. Also Galadriel doesnt show a ounce of regret about the way she treats people around her in season 1 since it seems that just like the sea..."she is always right". A main character or any character should also grow during the seasons as a person but so far to a viewer it seems that Galadriel can do no wrong. Also the fast traveling happening in the show needs to end since it makes the world feel much smaller than it was in the movies. Oh yes and that volcano scene was something else. I knew that elves were magical but didnt know that they are able to survive a full blast from a volcano (which can be as hot as 1200 degrees celsius btw.)
100% agree. I like this video from the perspective of ''What would I have done to make it better'', but still...this show is the biggest and shittiest expensive fan fiction ever put on screen. Honestly, it's like it's been written by dumb people for dumb people. There were many issues with season 1 and the pacing was only one of those. In terms of story, there were MANY plot holes, conveniences, self-indulgences and so on, it was mind blowing. I don't want to make a list but for exemple, but just the simple fact that they made Galadriel jumped off the ship in the ocean, literally at the end of the world without anything to hang on to to swim back was stupid af lol She's an elf, not Aquaman. It wasn't even a case of suspending your disbelief...she should've drowned, plain and simple.
Then the characters were awfully written for the most part. Yes Galadriel is the worst and it's because (even this video touched on this but in a polite way) they made her a 2020's girl boss. That's it. She has no flaws, no depth, she's not accountable to anyone, she can beat everyone, she has no challenges whatsoever. She's perfect. Bronwyn is the same to an extent. She becomes the leader without anyone questioning her. That's how Hollywood think strong and powerful women are or should be written. On the other side, except from Halbrand, because he's Sauron, thus the villain, every other men are either weak, dumb, have no assertion, are tossed aside or told what to do. Even Elrond is wimp for god sake lol The show was written with our modern society politics in mind and not Tolkien's world.
One last thing is the world itself. Everything felt cheap and not lived in. Costumes, armors, the (clearly) artificial lighting and sets...everything looked WAY too clean. I didn't believe their version of Middle-Earth at all. It looked, again, like an expensive fan fiction. It was very appalling.
Its a womans power series where every heavily armored man gets thrown around while the woman flies above the enemy with a backflip and beheads them.
Goldman watching soo much rings of power material: you have not seen what i have seen!
I...was actually *most* frustrated with Elrond and Khazad-dum. The Dwarves were the story I was most looking forward to and therefore the one I was most disappointed with. Also, simply making Elrond the connection between Celebrimbor and Durin is as massive a waste of time as the Harfoot story. I really found it...less than believable. I would fix it, simultaneously saving time and compellingly answer the question "Why did the Dwarves accept the rings from the Dark Lord who destroyed their friends in the first place?" by resetting the story back to the version that can *only* be found in the Appendices.
Elrond being childhoid friends with Durin IV makes NO sense. Where would they even have met? Elrond has no reason to have been in Khazad-dum and NO dwarf child has reason to be at a distant Elven court, especially if the Dwarves don't much care for those Elves...which is pretty obviously Durin III's attitude. There is also no reason to invent and waste the time to tell a complete BS origin story for mithril.
Dwarves live in the mountains. Mithril is an ore in Middle Earth. It needs no more origin story than does iron or zinc, the audience just needs to be made aware of its existence, the importance of its properties, and how easily it can be obtained. What are its properties? It is more incorruptible than gold (gold can still be very easily cursed, which is why the one Ring is made from gold rather than mithril), sturdier than iron, exceedingly lightweight, and is a better medium than any other ore for laying positive magic. How easy is it to obtain? The only places on the planet that mithril can be mined are the Undying Lands and Khazad-dum. This is also why *everything* about the forging of the three rings in Season 1 was complete BS. Sauron would never have chosen to work with mithril, and Nenya (which was specifically designed and crafted by Celebrimbor *without* Sauron's knowledge) is the only Ring of Power that should have been made with mithril. Pain-In-My-K weren't just making up surprises for Tolkien fans with that one, they were showing their ignorance of Tolkien's ore properties by deciding that mithril is just magical in general, rather than realizing that it is merely a medium and specifically a positive medium.
Celebrimbor is a highly skilled craftsman who lives only a few days travel from Khazad-dum. Maybe a few weeks, if the entrance the Fellowship used was created later specifically for Celebrimbor and his Elves. Craftsmen need materials to craft, and Celebrimbor specifically works in stone and metal. I wonder where the nearest source for that is (she said sarcastically)? Even if Durin initially had no reason to know Celebrimbor from Adam, Celebrimbor would have known, in general, about the great mining and crafting of Dwarves and where to find their greatest city. The Dwarves were not isolationist. They traded goods and found customers to buy or commission their works. I know Bilbo told Frodo in the movies that his mithril mail was made by the Elves, but if memory serves, that coat was actually made *by* the Dwarves *for* an Elven child, but war prevented delivery. The audience doesn't even need to be shown the progression of Celebrimbor approaching Durin for supply from his mines, discussion of why he would need raw materials rather than finished goods, followed by geeking out together over crafting and a lifelong friendship. All the audience would need to see is that these two kingdoms do a lot of trade because their respective kings bonded over mutual respect of each other's crafting skill. Celebrimbor makes the first 16 rings with Sauron and, because Durin is such a dear friend and he wants their kingdoms to continue growing together, Celebrimbor gives him one. Then Celebrimbor makes the final three rings in secret while Sauron makes the One in secret and Durin does all sorts of amazing things in Khazad-dum with his ring. Et voila, we have a believable friendship between Elf and Dwarf, a ring of power in the hands of the most respected Dwarf lord in all the world, and no time wasted with making up completely incomprehensible origin stories for all of the above. But the moment Sauron finished and put on his Ring, Celebrimbor became aware of him through its connection with all the other rings he made. We now have an interesting dilemma for the friends to face.
So, we've got a ring in the hands of one Dwarf Lord, what about the other six? This is where Amazon's original character Disa comes in. The only thing about Disa that needs to be rewritten is her backstory. Making her one random black nobody dwarf in all of Khazad-dum is an almost criminal waste of character potential. Contrary to popular complaint, Tolkien absolutely *did* have different races in his work, but he wrote race as a function of geography and none of his major stories were focused on the geography where darker races lived. There are *seven* great Dwarf clans, and we have only ever seen one of them on the screen. Four of them are never definitively located in any of Tolkien's published works beyond "way out east of Gondor somewhere." Not even in the more obscure texts of the Legendarium are all seven placed on a map. However, Durin is established as being greatly revered by *all* Dwarves. It would not be beyond belief for a different clan to be willing to marry one of their daughters to the direct heir of Durin himself. Really, since we're switching out Elrond for Celebrimbor, she could marry Durin himself and we would stil have the interaction between friend and wife of friend, rather than the more distant friend and daughter-in-law of friend. Set one, or even two of those four clans further to the southeast and you suddenly have a whole bunch of plot-relevant dark-skinned Dwarves. In Disa, there would now be a warm, sympathetic character to introduce connections between the Dwarf clans and show the other clans all the amazing things Durin is doing with his ring. Hey presto, the other Dwarf Lords now have an incentive to accept rings of power, no time has been wasted with pointless "origin" filler, and the audience isn't bored out of their skulls by political maneuvering between characters they have no emotional conection with (which is pretty much the only other believable option for why the Dwarf Lords accepted Sauron's "gifts").
This comment blew my mind
@@darthJ9 Hopefully in a good way 😅
This comment is brilliant, I still think Disa would need to be recast though, dwarves live underground and would almost certainly all be pasty white.
Damn? Who the hell are you random TH-cam comment person? I want to watch your show.
@@heofnorenown I hold to the geography rule. And orcs and goblins were always out of the sun, but Tolkien never described them as pasty. Or uniformly chalky, as TROP made them. Or uniform *anything,* apart from the Uruk Hai. That's actually why I've always loved how PJ portrayed them.
speaking of Tom Bombadil.. it would have been so weird tonal if they shoehorned whimsical Tom Bombadil singing and dancing in between them fleeint the Nazgûl, getting on the bucklebury ferry and arriving at brie, being chased by Nazgûl again xD
They hated to see him go but understood it was the right move.
Halbrand could’ve been the first ‘wraith’ instead of rushing to reveal the big bad.
Also takes Elrond a long ass time to convince the dwarves to help build the forge, but then the forge seems to be built in like two seconds?
Similarly the rings are created extremely quickly
I did not know what Lord of the Rings was when I first stepped into a theatre to watch Fellowship. I loved every second and watch the extended trilogy every couple years, shared with my kids, etc. I stopped watching Rings of Power after 3 episodes, it was boring and took a wrecking ball to the entire world and every character and race. I also had no idea what was going on because nothing made any sense. This show is to LOTR what Last Jedi was to SW, both of which should be fully removed from canon. Watching various youtubes about the Rings of Power, Numenor, and Sauron are infinitely more interesting.
In the island of men, galadriel could turn worst, according to your story because she feels they are ungrateful for what the elves did for them.
But no, she was pissed since the beginning so no difference there.
House of the Dragon is top 3 seasons of Game Of Thrones up there with seasons 1 and 3. What a difference someone who cares about the source material and telling a good story can make. Specially because HOT D came after the worst season of GOT.
It's amazing how nobody talks about Game Of Thrones (I'm not talking about House of the Drogon). It's like the show never existed. That's a phenomenal achievement given how popular and huge GoT was. For contrast, people still talk about LOTR or the 5th element today, here and there. It's amazing the degree to which D&D fucked it up. lol by the by we still haven't heard anything about them ever since, nor do I want to :p
@@praetorian3902Thinking about it hurts me, talking about it even more. I have rewached every season like 3 times, except for the last 2 seasons which were barely worth watching once :/
@@killerbas40 Yeah those are good seasons. Except the death of Barristan Selmy, that never sat well with me. It was so cheap.
Have you watched Mauler's analysis on Season 8 ? Or Glidus' pisstakes ? Maybe that could help with the pain. Or milk of the poppy.
Does anyone remember those TH-cam channels that got free trips to support this show back then?
At 18:20, it could be Elrond looking for Sauron and bringing back news to Galadriel that Sauron is still out there. As Gil Galad's herald and second in command, this would make sense. You could even tie it to him still feeling the loss of his brother, Elros, who chose to be mortal. Then Elrond and Galadriel could travel to Numenor together. Galadriel gets frustrated with the Numenorians racism while Elrond despairs about the seeming fall of his brother's kingdom. That could work
I found absolutely nothing of value in all 8 episodes. That alone, the total void of value, was an accomplishment.
Other commenters have already noted this but I concur: Tolkien Untangled's detailed plot outline of an alternative approach to the material shows what could have been. Watch that and forget the ludicrous fanfiction celebrating its first ignominious anniversary. Or just read the books.
It was Galadrial jumping off the ship that made me think - this is poo. Why would she kill herself? She just happens to get rescued. Don't have coincidences like that.
There's actually a lot of potential for an arc for galadriel that matches the books. With the defeat of Morgoth most of the elves return home, but a few who love middle earth stay. They found hollin. It is worth pointing out that the original elven ring bearers were elrond, kirdan, and Galadriel. Even after the fall of hollin these three stay and found their own mini-kingdoms through the power of the rings. They are DESPERATE to cling to this last little bit of "elvendom on earth".
That could create a fascinating character arc with flaws and strengths. Is she kind and caring? Yes, but she has a drive to be "a queen" like all those of her heritage that are now dead. We only see the end of this arc in the movies where she gives up the ring, the last chance to keep her last vestige of her own power in the land she loves.
Elrond could be driven by a desire to live up to his father's legacy as the great hero of humans and elves alike. He could feel overshadowed by the numenorians (his brother's family line) for their great works and the great good they do for the world. This would mean that his decision not to keep the ring at rivendell, making for himself a great story, but to send it off and bring on the destruction of his home becomes more poingiant.
@@anni.68 yup. Great potential
About Tom Bombadil: How do you translate him to the screen without him being ridiculous? I'm not sure they could have pulled it of without making him hateable.
Indeed. Personally I even disagree with his presence in LotR. He should have been in the Hobbit, he would fit better in this story.
@@Angrenost02 same, putting everything from a book into its on screen version pretty much never works does it?
Hopefully they try so the show gets worse and people dislike it more
@@christiannicolasborgenstee3092 Yeah, pretty much that's the reason not even the greatest, most faithful adaptions ever made are 1-to-1 conversions, cause that's just not possible, changing the story from one medium to the other will cause situations where you will HAVE to alter at least some things, since not everything that works in a book will work in a film and vice versa
@@dalriada7554Even TV shows had to change stuff around though, His Dark Materials for example, an extremely faithful adaption of that trilogy but still has it's fair share of deviations, but most necessary due to being a show instead of a book