OP KOH e PAIMA : THE PAKISTANI VIEW OF KARGIL WAR / L GEN P R KUMAR / LT GEN P R SHANKAR
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ค. 2024
- #GUNNERSSHOT #InternationalRelations #UPSC #CSE #StrategicAffairs #defence
OP KOH e PAIMA : THE PAKISTANI VIEW OF KARGIL WAR / L GEN P R KUMAR / LT GEN P R SHANKAR GUNNERS SHOT IS A CHANNEL FOR DEFENCE & STRATEGIC AFFAIRS, TECHNOLOGY AND WELFARE OF ARMED FORCES PERSONNEL.
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With every passing day, content on your channel is getting better. Indian military history is the least recorded subject. Apart from educating masses, Gen Shankar is making a great contribution to recording Indian military history. 🙏
Dear Sir! Let me give you a fact check. Kargil was a good operation which was handled badly at our end. Pak army managed to recapurte lost posts during 1971 war at Kargil and drass sectors. We also managed to recaputred some Indian posts and passes at siachen sector, lost earlier in 1984. Indians could only regain some posts at tiger hills area and one post at Gyongla region at siachin sector. We (Pak Army) is still sitting on Marpola , Dalunang Heights (over looking NH1 to Kargil), Brielman Heights and river side (stoneaway from NH1, NH301 & Kargil), Bunker posts, Ghulung pass (Overlooking Turtuk lost in 1971), Gyongla pass, Balafond la, sedal post at Indracol, K12, Siala pass ridge and more posts all captured from Indian army in 1999. Please note that Operation Koh e paima is still on. FYI, we captured heights at Silmo region established new posts in 2006.
My comments come rather late after watching this very interesting coverage more than once. My deep appreciation for Gen PR Kumar and Gen PR Shankar for so lucidly narrating these little known details and background from “the other side of the hill”. Compliments to Gen Kumar for such deep research and a very lucid explanation. Found it extremely educative and interesting. Excellent!!
THANKS A LOT SIR
Thanks
Thanks Gen Shankar and Gen Kumar
Respected Sirs! Firstly, thank you for your service and sacrifices! This talk was a very engrossing discussion on the psyche of the Pakistani Military around the Kargil war. It is also a fascinating case study of how ambition and megalomania can be so catastrophic. Lastly, the Kargil war was also a testament of the tenacity of the Indian armed forces and sagacity of the Indian government at times of crisis!
Jai Hind! Jai Bharat!
Watching form border kargil
Sir I think there is a book called “witness to blunder” by col Ashfaq hussain which discusses strategy and tactics of pak army in Kargil war in 1999
Jai Hind 🙏 🇮🇳
Thank you. Jai Bharat 🙏 1:35:10
Another request is to bring bureaucrats to provide a me comprehensive coverage
hmm
Do also look at current affairs.
Hope, on a ligher note, Gen. Shankar sir has enjoyed a Pakistani's company after Qamar Chima..😅
I can understand why ground patrols were not possible due to weather conditions. But why there were no arterial patrols to guard our borders over a period of 8 months?
Failure
Arterial or aerial?
One of the issues not addressed is the lack of preparedness for various possible situations, mitigation initiatives and readiness in higher echelons. Is it reactive or conversely less proactive in policy, planning and execution? Is the aggression posture on less resource capable adversary dampened by political imperatives? A myriad of questions lie unanswered at least from what is obvious.
That is for a later episode.
Sir, I loved this podcast. However have 1 suggestion, please take it in the spirit it is being made.. you are senior army commander and have a phenomenal amount of knowledge. Please do not call an expert and add your comments. Just one example your interjection almost changed the tack to India China.
hmm
Sir, it is painful to hear Indian generals extolling the so called bravery of enemies. Even after 1971 Manekshaw has done the same. It is best for such magnanimity to be left to poets and such fluffy segments of humanity. For the military, being aware of your enemy's strength and fighting ability is understandable, there's no for need to praise it either beforebefore, during or after battle. Leave that our. Even the stories of Indian military plying (and jointly partaking) alcohol and food to Pakistani officers in captivity during 1972-73 are very painful to imagine.
For the military, the enemy should remain an opponent, ideologically driven force against them, stripped of human values; and not as pitiable souls unfortunately having to fight for their country. Unless we have shatru bodh, we cannot visualize victory. And our military leadership must lead this shatru bodh.
only those who fight know the value of bravery...obviously you are not someone who has shed blood. you can spew all such nonsense sitting at home when your countrymen are dying. poor human being.
A soldier recognizes bravery and accepts it. We should understand that the Indian soldier is unique. After all we have thousands of years of history that teaches these values. I salute both the generals.
@@ManCan1203 I don't consider those who treat the bodies of enemies in the manner that Capt Kalia and his patrol were mutilated to be 'brave' fighters, by any yardstick. But you are entitled to your views, and there may be others who agree with you
'I will describe the events to you from the Pakistani side'. 1 and a half hours later..........😁
Hmm….you are from Pakistan?
@@gunnersshot9829 Jai Shri Ram!
Why I feel lag or incomplete I have watched this video again and again
It would be great if it was made point by point
Hmm
Gen Kumar touched on the political uncertainty (? turmoil) in India during that period. In April 1999, the Vajpayee government was brought down by a single vote cast by Gamang (Congress), a vote he was not morally entitled to, as he had just been elected as the CM of Odisha, hence needing to relinquish his MP status. However, as the Congreas led no confidence movement was tied at 271 votes each, and since Gamang had not yet tendered his parliamentary resignation, he voted, as per the instruction of Italian bar dancer. The rest is history.
Fast forward to Congress - Chinese Communist Party MOU in 2008, signed under the obnoxious nose of Italian bar dancer. Then, Depsang (2013), Doklam (2017), Galwan (2020)..
History continues to play out..
If Gamang had not voted, then speaker Late GMC Balayogi (TDP) would have cast his deciding vote in favour of the Vajpayee government, and history would have possibly played out differently, even in dealing with Kargil op from a stronger political front.
that is history
My dear think, What made military to sleep dedpite all weakness in govts ? Had it been percieved n detected earlier their routing out could have been mush easier. So more redpondibility of failure lies with cortosioned military brass of that time
Jai Bhaarat Sir
Dear Sir! Let me give you a fact check. Kargil was a good operation which was handled badly at our end. Pak army managed to recapurte lost posts during 1971 war at Kargil and drass sectors. We also managed to recaputred some Indian posts and passes at siachen sector, lost earlier in 1984. Indians could only regain some posts at tiger hills area and one post at Gyongla region at siachin sector. We are still sitting on Marpola (Overlooking Kargil), Bunker posts, Ghulung pass (Overlooking Turtuk lost in 1971), Gyongla pass, Balafond la, sedal post at Indracol, K12, Siala pass ridge posts since 1999 to date.
Hmm
Sort your economy and politics out. You sold yourself a dummy.
@@gunnersshot9829 Dont worry about our economy, we know how to sort our enemies. BTW you should do a video on Demjok, Gogra and other parts of IOL, where India has lost areas to China with our help. You should learn from Subramyamsawami, atleast he is honest.
What is kamaal here that instead of hanging their head in shame for sleeping while in active service while enemy occupied our controlled most strategic hights, both Lt Generals singing songs for each other. One more Lt Gen. Budhwar was deploying soldiers to catch birds to put them in cage and playing Golf as a Corp Cdr responsible for that area.
Bharat got it back but at what cost and what ratio of casualities, that to when Atalji swatted diplomatically n isolated Pak n NLI from rest of Pak military? Had Pak not diplomatically pressurized and have been supported intruders , imagine the outcome or losses.
Had these great strategists awaken n committed n kept military alert the Kargil could not happen at all. But after 71 there was corrupt Congress, later coalition n weak govts . Most of military top brass became Party savvy n India suffered like Kargil.
Many things to say but ..
atleast both must acknowledge the commitment and dedication of Musarraf towards Pak n correct estimation of most of our corrosioned military brass of that time.
They brought bad name for India then and now earning appreciation from innocent civilians for self boasting narrations.
Painful to listen but got to do so atleast smiling on failures of yesterday. No appreciation for your inefficiencies, not personal anyway ..
Hmm. Pessimistic
Both Gen Sahab best strategy n tactic is to perceive the future and plan accordingly with fair amount of alertness inclined towards it as Lt Gen Shankar once explained that how Arty need to be deployed to save Tawang .
Had been then topbrass done that normal n routine job of applying minds Kargil could not happen at all. All knew that Siachin is a permanent thorn in Pak chest, then why at Ist place no plan was made n vigil on Kargil peaks was kept to save Siachin ? If not by foot soldiers, IAF aircraft / hepters must have been deployed periodically to watch any movement. No?
So admit Ist, accept the failure n explain the event with serious faces not as a glorious activity.
Lt Gen. Kulkarni deserve to talk with Glorious face because he did to Pak what Musarraf did to India. Anyway Regards to both of you
@gunnersshot9829 what a word " Pessimistic" English has created and what style of use Britishers have left here as legacy to use it as one word answer when face bare truth Qn.
Nehru also stood Optimistic even after loosing out Aksai Chin due to same reason despite alertness of military that time but Kargil was really a slap on military's face..because it was caught sleeping rather Lt Gen Budhawar's golfing ( it was in newspapers Sir), No? If yes, then please accept and tell it Sir so that it is not repeated.
I have a point to make. Nawaz Sharif has proven to be unreliable time and again. First time when he could not prevent and salvage the situation during Kargil perfidy.
Atal ji had just signed Lahore declaration.
Second time when Modiji went to meet Sharif in December 2015.
Then Pathankot happened in January 2016. The Indian govt even allowed Special Pakistan team to visit the site, with zero result.
Then in September 2018, Uri attacks happened.
So let us hold any illusions. No Pakistani politician can negotiate peace with India. There is just no point talking to them.
Only organisation that matters is the Pak army, and they are entirely radicalised, and are schemers and backstabbers.
Modi and foreign office are on the right path with NO TALKS with Pakistan policy. It is working
They were heart broken to see their refused army getting wrapped in pakistani flag!!! No sir world is not that simple. Stop seeing Pakistan like it can be salvaged. It cannot. And where you have taken Pakistani hat. You just said everything from Indian lens. Click bait.
Hmm.
Sir, while we all agree with Gen Kumar and are shocked at the duplicity and cunningness of the Pak mil in executing this op while the Lahore diplomacy was happening; one cannot help thinking of a Chinese hand in this. Recent experiences have shown that high profile Indo Chinese events (Mahabalipuram etc) have coincided with some border scuffle or vicious statement from state propogsnds. Similar disconnects have also occurred during US China diplomatic events recently. Finslly, Musharraf's phone tapped conversations occurred while he was in Beijing, probably there to get top secret 'verbal only' instructions on the next steps of Op Koh E Paima grom his Chinese masters...
Duplicity starts with Chinese whispers.. and gets propogated by misguided ideology..
All duplicity n cunningness with Pak n China but was Indian military top brass was authorised to play golf and lower the guard ofgicially. Onus goes for these ppl responsible for guarding borders. Had it been reported by top military brass as was done before 1962 n GOI ( Atalji) did ignore it like Nehru, then they could had been relinquished of their ignorance/ failure whatever you say.