@@OnyemaechiAmuro They have grown sensitive to what kinds of questions they ask. They do call and/or have an online form for the reference to fill, but they don't even check if they are real. I have submitted friends as professional references, and they just believe whatever they say.
Just end the concept of references. It's a waist of time and an outdated concept. Also, virtually every reference callback that was done for me was in order to recruit them for a different job. My friends found it very annoying.
I had a former manager who was a complete scumbag. When I gave my notice he accused me of bluffing because he never got a call as a reference. He stated in a meeting with the Director that I would be begging for my job back on what would be my last day. The admin assistant told me what he said and was laughing hysterically inside. Some people are completely delusional.
I interviewed for a very menial position in a hospital's gift shop. They required references, which I provided, but then they demanded I provide my previous manager's personal e-mail address. Not the company's HR contact information but the actual manager's private e-mail. I explained to the hospital that my previous employer was a bank, and because of security reasons managers weren't permitted to get close to employees. I couldn't just call up my previous manager and ask for him for his personal email. The hospital said that they understood, but it was their policy and required for all applicants. Then the hospital said something that really pissed me off. After I called the hospital's HR department to question this policy further, they said that they too have a policy against managers giving out personal information to employees. So, basically they were asking for something that they themselves weren't permitted to provide. When I pointed out the hypocrisy of the situation, the HR lady got very nasty with me. I immediately withdrew my application stating that I rather not be associated with their hospital and their unfair hiring practices. I wonder how many applicants faked it. Gave a fake email and just pretended to respond as their previous managers?
@@Layarion It was 11 years ago, and at the time I didn't know if it were illegal or not. Plus, I live in the United States, in a red state (Republican controlled) where workers have very little rights. Most companies here constantly do these unethical but somewhat legal things.
@@JohnDoe-pf6qp I was thinking the same thing. I can't believe that EVERYONE who got a job there actually got their previous manager's personal email. I know they faked it.
@@MrKarlozz So TRUE. I worked in Cruise Line for the longest time. With the new superliner it's always SHORT STAFF. The one working on board have to wear a lot of hats to make the operation for service move on. When I was appraised I was given just 3 in all the field for grading. They focused on selling. How can you sell when you have to do different jobs all at the same time & when there are packages availing unlimited drinks. You are absolutely RIGHT.
@@larasmith5723 They're just giving you shitty performance reviews to keep your salary low. They know they're setting you up for failure, and the moment you just slightly challenge their appraisals they shoot your arguments down. Hope you're working at a better place now.
@@MrKarlozz Thank you for that realization. That company is really shit. I had an accident on board, sent me home, didn't approved my surgery & injection, then fired me. I'm glad they did as I had enough of all the BS.
@@MrKarlozz I'm moving on positively. I had both knee surgeries at the end of this month. My own expense. I'm sure when I get better much more opportunities will come my way. I've learned that loyalty is a thing of the past. The longer I've stayed the more the company doesn't really care about your well being & safety on board. It took a complaint from a passenger to my boss to let me have a decent rest as I wasn't been given medical attention & continuously working for weeks limping. I complaint to the HR to at least send me ashore to be check by a specialist but didn't happend. Instead they send home only to be kicked out eventually. That family thinking & all safety protocols etc. are all lies company wants their employees to think. They want you to think that they care & that you can speak to them anytime. All of the videos here are all eye opener & TRUE. I've learned the lesson the HARD WAY.
I was advised early on: Get someone to actually call your references first (a non-recruiting person you trust), hear what they have to say - _before_ putting them on paper for job application.
I feel that references are a huge waste of time and a nuisance. Workplaces should judge the person's abilities themselves not ask their previous employers as some don't get on well or they give bad review or had not work for a very long time and they don't remember them.
@Matthew Cox, Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that illegal? I believe I once heard somewhere that if an employer were to speak poorly of a former employee, that they’re breaking the law. That at worst, all they can do is acknowledge that you had worked there, but nothing more.
Used to be that people might talk, but today's climate is sue-happy. The only reference a company may give out is simply to verify that I actually used to work there.
@@lisamarielund6292 This is good advice. I would add that it's probably also a good idea to talk to one of your managers, seniors or what have you that got along with you.
@@lisamarielund6292 loool , i have 2 friends who are always my reference , regardless of the company where i apply (accountant) . The system fucked me once , i am never giving any real manager number .
I actually think the practice of asking for references should just be outlawed. If you call me to ask about a previous employee more than likely I'm just going to say yes they worked here and decline to answer any additional questions. If you are going to answer any additional questions you should NEVER stray outside of what can be factually documented (start date, end date, salary). Any sort of opinion based statement can land you in a world of shit and it's just not a good idea to even address the question.
So if my current employer finds out that I am applying for a new job, I get terminated. And then my new employer asks for a recommendation from the person who fired me. How does this make any sense ???
I once had one of my references DISSING me when he was called. We'd worked together a couple of years before, and all was fine. But, the work was drying-up and competition was fierce. Since we'd worked together, I'd learned more about HIS specialty ( USB Macintosh Drivers ) and was now a competitor to him. He didn't even live in the same area, so I didn't think it was a problem. The employer called me, and told me that my reference had obliterated me - then hired me on the spot.
I was going through this for 2 years trying to get a job, until finally a recruiter told me. The information was untrue, but I was young and i experienced, and now had no other references. Which in turn cost me another year.
@@sanguineregis5354 Some hiring managers, especially the good ones, can sniff out toxic work environments and the people who make them that way. After all, the person applying is doing so for a reason, and if that person is polite in the way they say they would like to go a different direction in their career coupled with that kind of reference, they get a good idea why you don't want to be headed that same direction.
@@sanguineregis5354 The other 3 references lauded me, and he could tell envy when he heard it. I ended-up getting three long term contracts with that firm over the years.
The comments about giving refences are spot on. The last company I worked for strictly forbid managers giving out references and all they would do is refer the person to HR and verify employment dates and title
this is exactly why all my past references are my friends and family posing as former supervisors. and they give glowing references because i can control the narrative.
Yep, I worked for a wall st firm many years ago, only employment dates, and that required consent. HR told me they had a big lawsuit over that issue and changed their policy.
I once told an employer that I was going to have a problem with references because I didn't know anyone. I don't know anyone personally to give address or phone for, I mean to say. They thought this was weird until I told them this: "I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to work. When I get a job, I clock in, do my job, and clock out. I don't have time to 'socialize' or 'get to know people'. I have a job to do that I am getting paid for, so I do it." I got the job. The references I gave were my mother, sister, and girlfriend.
The problems I had with providing references is that I rarely had contact with my manager. I just saw him once every blue moon. And the people I worked with were not buddy-buddy with me. They were just coworkers so I had no personal info on them like phone numbers and addresses. So I always ended up giving friends names. It wasn't exactly what employers were looking for but it is all I had to give.
I left my job because my boss gave his 'friend' a part-time job in my AP department and she proceeded to trash it department and create no end of messes for me to clean up.Add to that EVERYTHING was an argument and she 'only made a mistake, even though she made the same 'mistake' twice because apparently she doesn't feel it necessary to learn from them. She was totally unqualified to work in my department. After 10 years, I resigned abruptly because I could afford it and didn't want this garbage in my life. Add to that I'm highly introverted and prefer to live my life alone and in peace, I don't have 'references'. Nor would I recommend working there in any capacity. Toxic.
The interview process is brutal. Went through it once for a shit job... Decided self employment was the only way for me at 20 yrs old. I've never looked back...
I have once in my life been asked to be a reference, and at the time I worked for a fairly big company (3000+ employees) even though I was pretty low down on the corporate ladder. The reference request was for a friend of mine, applying for a job in a completely unrelated field (in which I happened to have some summer job experience lmao), and apparently the fancy exclusive corporate ending in my email address impressed them so they asked about my friend and her work ethics. I of course praised her to the skies and she got the job :D
i have been asked to provide references at every single job i have ever applied for. i have been a full time employee at 13 different companies in 4 different sectors across 2 decades.
Because of the slander liabilities now, I've found that former employers will now only confirm two things about former employees when a prospective employers calls for references; the former employees job title and their hire and separation dates. That's the only info some are willing to give out.
That is pretty much all most UK companies do. Date started, date left, job title/duties and maybe final salary. If nothing else it sorts out the fantasy CVs from the honest ones.
It's just a low bar to clear: Find 3 people who will put in a good word. If you're 16 and applying for a job at a fast food joint, your priest, teacher and neighbour are good references, because well, what do you expect a 16-year old kid would do? A local farmer who you've helped with work around the farm before etc. are also great. But let's say our suburban teen, let's call her Jessie, wants to move up in the ranks of her local fast food franchise. She applies for assistant manager. Her references now would be someone they should like to call, like her manager, shift leader, etc. And then later she moves laterally into another business. In Norway we have sections of the supermarkets with different bosses. You have a Drywares boss (flour, pasta, jam, etc. Stuff you put on a normal shelf.), a dairyware boss, greenware boss (fruits and vegetables) freshware boss (butchery/fish/deli), and so on. I don't know the English lingo, so I'll use my weirdly translated Norwanglish for... flavour. Let's go with that. So she applies for the position as green boss. She's great with customers, patient, helpful, knows the EU/EEA regulations, is tough but fair, etc. Since she's a manager at a franchise, her references could be the assistant manager, the franchise owner and say, the regional manager. When she later applies for the position of store boss her references could be store boss in her own store, store owner, other bosses, etc. The people you show to vouch for you says something about you, and it gives applicants that don't like to brag about themselves (try to get an American to hire a Scandinavian, and watch as frustration builds. "So you say you know chess?" "I'm not too bad at it, I guess." "Wait, aren't you *the* Magnus Carlsen?" "Yes." So if you're not comfortable with selling yourself, having some of your guys in your corner going to bat for you is immensely helpful to these personality types.
@@HrHaakon But what's tricky is if you haven't worked at a lot of places and your current place doesn't know you're looking. For example, I have worked at the same place for six years, in different positions, but it's a small team and my first job was there. If I had to provide a reference it would have to be from that place, because it would be very strange to give a student type reference after 6 years of working experience. Butttt... That would mean divulging to someone in a senior position I was looking for another job. I'm not currently, by the way, but you can see how that can get you in a bind.
@@HrHaakon moving up in a fast food franchise is not the best of careers. They tend to hire anyone with a pulse who passed highschool and has a car, so the social skills and environment are horrible. I personally make 60k/yr at the moment and I was fired from a fast food job because I was not suited for the trashy culture and many conflicts ensued. I'm sure there are a good handful of wholesome fast food joints out there, but that isn't the majority, especially in cities.
If you put down a reference who will diss you, then you deserve not getting the job. Way too many people don't bother to ask potential references if they can be a positive reference. It is always a risk though.
Not me shuffling up your videos from 2-3 years ago. A lot of helpful information, in fact, you're the first person I know that shares these internal perspectives because I wouldn't know anything about these processes as I don't work in HR. Thank you so much! I clicked on that notification bell too! Love the informative videos!!!!!
Thank you for making this channel. It’s majorly important for folks that feel insecure during layoff times. Been here before and would have loved to come across this channel then. You’re a true hero.
A lot of these large corporations actually outsource the hiring process to employment agencies as well to get the majority of their employees. I work for JP Morgan Chase and I originally got hired as a long-term temporary employee, and after a few years, I ended up getting hired by the company since they are very big on hiring within. I guess it makes it easier and less costly for them to just outsource that hiring process to another company, and when they feel that you will be a good asset to the company after working there as a temp for a while, that makes the process of hiring you permanently a lot easier for them. It also helps them weed out all the bad apples because temp agencies are known for hiring anybody, so when you get those rare employees that are actually good at their jobs, it’s less of a headache for the large corporation.
First, I've been binge-watching these videos, good job! Second, I had a job slip through my fingers because the hiring manager sent questionnaires to my references and those references did not complete the questionnaires. I didn't realize that could even screw up an interview until it happened!
When I was asked for references for previous employees, I could only verify dates. To get around this, I would say things like..I can’t say that....(insert glowing reference here). *Hint hint, *wink wink. If they sucked with me, but the new company might be closer to that employee’s strengths, I would always help them out. I mean...car rental isn’t a job for everyone.
That happened to me, about 5 years after I left a company the company no longer existed and the job was still on my resume. They had also changed names right before I left which made it almost unrecognizable. It was weird. I am still friends with one of my coworkers she was the EA to the VP so I asked her if I could use her as my reference for that position. I didn't have anyone else's contact info anymore. My best friend puts me down, she worked for the same company as well for a short time, I was her direct boss at the time. It was 20 years ago so none of us really have to use it anymore but for a while there it was funny how that circle worked.
Job references should be illegal except call to verify employment like job title and time frame. Even if you use a former boss with good relationship things could change when you leave. Also friends or co workers should not be used because when comes to job you have no idea what will be said or not. Getting a job these days is like going to court to avoid prison or be homeless. Sometimes all people have is the recruiter being their lawyer.
As always, excellent information. I think that the entire references thing is a joke. An HR person is supposed to call a perfect stranger and believe whatever they say, and make decisions about it without any actual confirmation of who that person is or the veracity of what they say. They take whatever the stranger tells them, good or bad. It's a very outdated system that started based on the premise that professionals are people of absolute integrity and never lie. I have made the test and once I used all made-up references, and got away with them "verifying" the references, and got an offer. Furthermore, actual references can be used only if they personally like you. If they don't, they will not give you a good reference (it has happened to me with a very vindictive past employer) regardless of how good of a professional you are. The other issue is that references are based on the premise that the person being called for reference is honest, impartial, professional and/or from company that is ethical, which is a joke since there are reasons why people are looking for alternatives to their current employment. Also, with the possible legal liabilities that they imply, prospective employers ask minimum and very specific questions, which defeat the purpose of what references are supposed to be for in the first place. I honestly think it's time to look into finding a better ways of confirming people's past employment experiences.
The thing about references that if you use your current manager as a reference that gives the heads up that you will be leaving and my fear is that if said manager doesn't want to loose you they may say they wouldn't hire you in order to keep you as an employee in their existing role. I never use current managers or anything like that for that reason, always a past manager.
Nowadays references are just difficult to have. If you're a good employee, I have noticed companies are bitter when you do leave for better pay and a higher position. I had a company put me on the no-hire list because I had to leave 2 days early on my 2 week notice, but I notified HR a week before. The job was a good reference for quality of my work because they use me to cover multiple managers that would leave the company. But after my hard work, the only reference they would give "I'm on the no-hire list". I was hurt. I bust my ass for that company. I called the company explaining I was a good employee, they said "HR policy is no 2 week notice, then you're on the no hired list. But I gave them a two notice and worked, left 2 days early with advance notice too. Work for them or fuck your career future is how they do people.
Yea that’s the best way if u have a boss that was under the big guy but over u guys and he’s just neutral u should be good they know ur work better than the big boss from observation anyways
@@ALifeAfterLayoff but the advice of not burning bridges isn’t really helpful. When not burning brides means that you bust your ass while in the company, give them lots of weeks of notice to help them cover any losses of workload, or “knowledge transfer” to help with “transistion”, the company or your manager can still feel salty and put you on the no hire list. It’s all set up to make the company come out better and lie about the good employee’s work ethic etc.
As a Scandinavian, I find it horrific to listen to this. Here it is outright illegal to say negative things as a reference, to make sure that former employers do not take revenge on perceived illoyality from a former employee
My last employer is a major financial institution and they are not allowed to give information because they have been sued before . I was a manager there for many years and only information we were allowed to give is whether they ever worked there. This is hard to explain on job applications because a lot of companies don’t know/believe this to be true. Therefore , I can’t use any of my former managers or employees from there as references 🤦🏻♀️
front door reference requests get shut down in montreal, it's almost seen as disrespectful to spam companies with such approaches. if you know someone on the inside you can ask informally and that's it. The rest is limited to "yeah, he worked here at some point, bye".
shitty employers will think you have something to hide, and will see it as a red flag. This reference check thing should not even exist. It's such BS. It's an employers' responsibility to tell if the candidate is the person they are looking for. Job interviews exist for that purpose. Employer is free to ask for yet another interview if still unsure. Asking for a reference is like admitting you don't know your job as an employer, you are not competent enough to tell if the candidate is qualified, so you need someone else to do your job for you.
I've never had an issue with references, but this one job for an entry level position had asked me for 5 references within a week, and I thought it was insane given how little time and how busy they are..
Most HR drones don't have time to call all over hell's creation for every single new hires references or previous employers. Unless it's a small company that has alot of free time, it's not going to happen. Think about it, would you have the time to call 300 references on 100 applicants? Yeah. Now I do list my friends as references. We all have an agreement between ourselves. They use me and I use them. We have a fictitious company we all worked for and we are all each other's managers. Only one of us actually received a call.
I am under the impression that legally, the only questions HR can ask another HR person is dates of employment and salary, Not, “is there anything else I should know...”. is this true or false? One of the reasons I left a previous job was my boss blatantly ignored me for two weeks. my boss was the jerk, not me.
Yes - HR from a company is only allowed to give start and end dates in a lot of states and your title but I doubt salary is one of the things they can discuss about a current or previous employee. Seems like that is private information that shouldn't be made public without your consent as it may paint you in a poor light if you are jumping up in pay quite a bit.
Key advice on make sure the reference is going to be good! Long ago, I was on an admissions committee for a PhD program. One student applicant had a reference from his department head that said "I wouldn't take this student for the program at my university and I don't recommend him for yours" I was amused but the professors were annoyed, saying that the department head should have told the student that he would not be able to give a positive reference rather than doing this. Of course, in some small colleges (and small companies for that matter) there may not have been a lot of choice of who the applicant could ask. And sadly, although people felt bad for the student being blind-sided by this, we didn't give him a place, because he had a bad reference!
References are such a waste of time for damn near everyone involved, plain and simple. Companies need to get away from requesting these and trust they are able to judge the persons resume, screening and interviewing skills that they are the right person for the job. Usually references (normally a good friend(s) you used to work with or just a good friend to you that are lying on your behalf) are just saying what they think you want to hear and not what is the real deal. Edit: Lets not forget a actual former managers or coworkers who you thought you were on good terms with who get some jollies off by trash talking you when they get calls for reference checks. How could you ever know they are bad mouthing you if they act nice to your face? It's just absolute nonsense and is really a practice that needs to be abolished.
We're not talking about your buddy's reference. In higher education, it is to verify the type of job skills you have and how they apply to the job you're applying to. Sure personally, I go a lot off of intuition and feeling for someone. I have been right a lot more than wrong - if I think their interview and skills on their resume correlate/translate, I take that chance. We're required to check references. It can be enlightening though.
@@petelee2477 I suppose the only way I could couch that would be to verify that a) you were reliable and dependable; b) you showed leadership qualities and poise under pressure (and in your pants). Sorry that last one was from a commercial that always gets me. I guess it would speak to your character. It is hard to translate one type of work for another. Some bosses dismiss it totally and sometimes a creative boss may look at it favorably and in a different way. Who knows?
Note that I've also had hiring companies come back at me after hiring someone I recommended. A former employee of mine used me as a reference, and as I had no issue with them I have them a positive review. The new employer hired them, but quickly things went south for reasons I'm not party to. They called me back trying to hold me to account for giving a good reference. Doesn't put me off giving good reviews. On the other hand I had a HR company approach me last year for a reference only to begin by saying I shouldn't continue if I was going to say anything negative. If so what is the point of wasting my time?
I assume that the company found negative reviews were more indicative of the reference and their personality rather than the applicant themselves. (I think we can all think of individuals who like to bad-mouth others, and these may make up a good portion of negative reviews. Most people, after all, wouldn't mention the bad parts about someone when giving a reference.) The positive things said about a person may be a better reflection of the person than the negative ones.
Yeah wow, seems like a total waste of time! I can't believe they called you to complain wow, your former employee probably had an issue with them because they were crazy!
I actually had that happen to someone I was hiring. On paper, they looked fantastic. The interview went well. The references were so glowing for this person - you would not believe. This was the absolute WORST employee I have ever had. I don't think she could actually read. She was argumentative from day one. She wouldn't follow directions and couldn't do an excel spreadsheet or fill out a form to save her life. She was awful with students. She tried to "steal" time. I thought they sent me a pod person instead of the real person.
In my 25+ years of work experience, I would say 50/50. Most companies will not call back or email the person trying to get a reference. Also, 50/50 on education checks. I know dozens of individuals that put degrees they don't have or a higher degree they don't have or are working on, and they all got hired!
Yea I would agree actually. I remember when I applied to this fast job in the past, and the only experience I had was that I worked at Shakeys (a fast food pizza place). While I was working at Shakeys, I was very rebellious, I would take longer breaks than I was supposed to, eat on my 10's when I wasn't supposed to to, talk a lot instead of working that much, and not do that much work overall. I've matured since then I'm not like that anymore. But at the time that's the only reference I had when applying to my new fast food job, so I put down Shakeys and their phone number. And I ended up getting a job pretty easy lol. In all honesty you can probably put a fake reference phone number, put the real place you worked at, but for the phone number just get like one digit off so the call wont go anywhere, the hiring manager really wont care to be honest. Edit: Also currently I have a bunch of references on my resume that arent even in business anymore, and I still get hired at different jobs lol so its really not a big deal.
Reference checks are so yesteryear! Why would any candidate provide you with any reference that make them look bad? If a recruiter or employer asks for references before a job interview invitation write to them as follows:- I would be happy to turn over my references list after the company and I had established a mutual interest. There are lots of unscrupulous employers out there. Make sure you do your homework before accepting a position.
I've been tossed around a lot at jobs and had just had it up to here. Then a friend asked if I wanted a job. I said no, changed my mind 2 months later and now work in the chillest place keeping fabric in the wear house in order, making sc, po and invoices documents. The boss is very kind and I never even gave a resume or had an interview. Life is good again 🙌☕
In Japan, Japanese companies WILL check references or they will actually call your previous employer without telling you (this happened in 2022 to someone who left my company and I took the call from his next employer's HR department). In my case I was interviewing for a Japanese company in NJ but HQ in Japan called my previous employer in Tokyo (about 25 yrs. ago).
This is true in education too. I have heard from undergrad professors they wont write a recommendation letter for a student they didn’t like for either jobs or grad school because professors have been sued and lost in court.
@@Ephesians5-14 That means you are a good egg! :-) If a faculty member does that, they think a lot of you. I have faculty members giving me great references (as a staffer) - that is rare. It is so heartening. Good luck to you!
Thanks for the videos, I've found them useful in self employment since every new customer is an interview then they become your boss. The lessons on self value and toxic bosses are do valuable. The legal term you were looking for is defamation.
Hey Brent, I really appreciate your videos. I am a college student who is going through the job hunt right now, and it is both difficult and tiring. Having someone like you in my corner to teach me about the process is helpful. I have a question about your work as a recruiter. Did you always want to go into recruiting? I've never met anyone who wanted to be a recruiter, but you seem like you're both knowledgeable in the field and very invested in your job. How do you keep your motivation and commitmnt so high (to this, or any job)?
Thanks Steven. I'm not sure anyone gets into HR to become a recruiter, to be honest. It just kinda happens. But it can be a solid career path. I've chosen the corporate side vs being a headhunter because I didn't like the idea of pressuring someone into a role so that I get a placement. I'll probably make a video about being motivated and finding passion, so thanks for the great idea!
reference checks are antiquated & serve no real purpose. & its even more of a joke b/c most companies will turn around & not provide references, so it really is pointless. I have used references that I made up (friends who are professionals) & that solved that annoying problem.
You should do a video on "backdoor references" . I had a situation where I ended up interviewing great in the first stages with a company and then was ghosted. After looking through LinkedIn I discovered someone I worked with several years ago was now working for the company I was interviewing at in the same department. We had a personality conflict in our previous work life so I am sure my resume was socialized among their team where the person recognized my name and badmouthed me.
i once got a call from a former employees prospective employer asking me about that person. thing was, they were quite literally the most incompetent, lazy person id ever worked with. i politely told them that i would absolutely rehire that person for an extremely menial role with zero responsibilities and very low compensation. im pretty sure the HR person on the other line understood my point because she said: "ohhh wow ok well thank you very much youve been very helpful".
If they ask for 3 references provide 3.. do not provide 4,5 or 8 most HR department will check ALL of them and will not offer until they have talked to everyone... One person is unreachable and the whole process gets stalled.
I've been interviewing for 20+ years. Don't think I've ever checked a reference. In my experience they're usually pre-primed people that are there to give a positive response. I have, on occasion, randomly called people at the company to ask for an impromptu reference, and that tends to get a much more honest appraisal. But IMHO if a candidate does themselves justice in the interview then there's little need for me to ask other people.
My new job hasn't asked for any references. They interviewed me and loved me. My last job didn't ask for references, either. I thought it was weird, but apparently they're not as common as I thought they would be.
but they don't honestly know if you've actually given them a legit manager's direct number and not a trusted friend/peer who you filled in about the job and gave a heads up to expect the call... aside from "honesty is good and lying is bad"... I've had managers who used cell phones with numbers that weren't listed/online, small managers within a tiny local section of larger companies- again with little local numbers you don't find when you google the company and can't really just look up, not to mention a customer or client as recommended could be literally anyone, again without any kind of searchable, verifiable info, then I've worked for people who have left a company and moved out of state for a different line of work and completely lost contact because we aren't buddies, I've worked for people who have passed away - really what's to stop me from giving anyone's number I trust besides "lying is bad"?
I supervised an employee who used me as a reference. She was always 20 minutes to an hour late to work . She cut corners when it came to her job and she always had a bad attitude. I couldn’t believe she used me as a reference. When her potential new employer asked if I would hire her back, I simply said, “That’s not my call.”
@@lilsabin. I’m always cordial and professional with anyone I work with so that could explain why she used me as a reference, but she made it a nightmare maintaining office morale. Her constant tardiness and absence made it hard on her co-workers. Often times they had to pick up the slack for her. Suffice it to say, they where glad when her employment was finally terminated.
If you are late, you buy me a cake (no cheap shit, then I switch your time on the roster so you were ‘on time’ I don’t do half hours though. That means 5-10 minutes late will cost you 15-20 on the cake and an hour of free work;) People rarely came late :)
It really depends on what field you're in. Most corporations in the business/finance/accounting world, in my experience, barely ever call references. Managers look at so many applications and resumes and they simply don't have time to call references for each candidate. From what I've heard, most references they get don't even reply to their emails/phone calls. Hell, most hiring managers I've met admitted to me that they skip cover letters! Unless you're trying to apply for a prestigious position, you don't always need references.
I have gotten all the way through an application amd then they asked for personal references, including their home address. How bout yall put that stuff at the top so I can see it early enough to not fill out an application for you?
You will not believe how many people do not update their resumes, references, etc. I cannot tell you how hard it was to really get the proper references for a person. That person turned out to be a real sh&tshow. Some things matter. I don't know about home address though, nowadays. In my most recent job search it has all been over zoom or email, etc.
@@jbjacobs9514 I hardly see how personal references would have helped that, though. I dont know about you, but I'd have whoever my personal references lie for me if I needed a little extra juice to help get me the job. Don't get me wrong, I know there needs to be a good way of making sure you are hiring the right person, but trusting their friends seems to easy to manipulate.
@@genericfighter There is a difference between fudging for your buddy and straight out lying about a person's qualifications. In the end it hurts them and your credibility. I don't generally ask for references from "friends" though - all of mine are professional references. I am working in research administration so you need references that will speak to your abilities in a way you can't fudge too much. :-)
@@jbjacobs9514 ah, I gotcha. I do not envy anyone trying to figure out if a candidate is worth trying out. I didnt even vouch for my brother when he applied to a place I worked.
Thank you so much for this video! I've "used up" a lot of my best references, due to roles that were just not sustainable. I once had to give six references, three professional and three personal.
Self-employed. I applied for a few corporate jobs. The prospective employers wanted my client list.:-( I told them the most I would provide is 2-3 reference clients and maybe an old employer. I never heard from them again! I am not providing them with a targeted sales prospect list. More than once, I have heard for people, in good faith, turning over client lists. What happened was the prospective employer's SALES department contacted them in a few weeks. What is the audiences thoughts?
In the UK, you can't legally give someone a bad reference and it has to be from a professional email account for all the issues talked about in the video. It's the old saying of, 'if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all.'
Here in Texas, employers are notorious on giving out negative or nasty references just to hurt a former employee. I was working at a company and had to verify references. One former employer told me that the former employee had AIDS and should be avoided. I was in shock when I heard this and so I told my supervisor about what I was told. My supervisor told me to just file the application to the "do not hire" file.
The rest of the world uses letters of recommendation which I'm sad you didn't even mention. Considering the liability issues, these letters make more sense. Also here in the USA I have never EVER had one of my referenced contacted, but I did have most of people I had to list on a Background Check *government job* contacted.
I was also wondering about letters of recommendation. I mean, you need them for internships and to get into post graduate schools. However I doubt most people would take the time to do it on behalf of someone else...
Government jobs are different. Very different from other jobs. Our university does background checks on all final candidates and requires reference checks from at least 3 people and they choose from your list and they DO contact them about the way you fit in the job they are advertising.
: Forming part of HR functions is the verification of potential staff profiles as stated in their CVs before a formal contract of employment is issued. Give a list of key aspects of a CV that may require further due diligence and how will you go about the verification process.?
What if i don’t want my current company to know that im applying for a new job somewhere else? The moment they know an employee is looking for a new job, they treat that person differently or could let go that same day....the new company im applying for wants a background check? Any advice?
Indicate on the app that you do not give permission for them to contact your current employer - any reputable company would oblige. And don’t use anyone at the current company for a reference. Even if you trust them.
A Life After Layoff - thank you for the reply. It’s really helpful. I have another question. Is it worth giving up a job in a corporate auditing firm (but super stressful and making me literally sick, anxiety and sleepless nights) to a blue collar job labor work with the same pay but a far drive? I want to quit but at the same time i have financial obligations and need insurance. Thank you.
typically on an application there is a "can we contact current employer" box and you check no. that lets them know that you don't want them to know you're looking for a job, if you check yes then they know it's ok to call. If you get to the interview you can let them know that they can't contact them because you'll be fired and you would like to leave on good terms. They should respect that, if they don't then they won't respect you.
In some cases, you can totally get around that. Unless they say they have to talk to your current boss, you can check no in the "can we contact your current employer" section. Most of the time they just check the references you provided. There are many reasons you may not want your current employer to be a referee for you. Sometimes they can't either. They may even be gone or retired. A background check is generally just to check for criminal activity in that state - nothing to do with your actual job or performance. Just that you haven't committed a crime in that state and that you are not on the sex offender registry.
Same in UNC Flagship system universities. The offers all come through HR but we are required to unofficially offer a position so that we can add it to a compliance report for the state.
If you’re going from one big company to another, also depends on the position you’re taking over, the chances of them asking for a reference or even verifying is highly unlikely. Like mentioned in the video, HR is pretty tight-lipped about this to limit liability. They will just confirm your title, and hiring date. They will NOT get into the nitty gritty on the habits of the employee. So other large organizations are not going to waste their time checking since they probably have the same policies in place.
@@kyleroberts1276 Well usually there’s no where to put on an application that your particular manager no longer works there. It’s usually, name of manger, number, and can we contact them. You’re going to leave it up to the potential employer to assume that’s why you put no? Risky. They could also assume the other way as well, which would be bad for you. I would just select yes, and if they call asking for that manager, they will be told the person no longer is employed there.
I always assumed this was to let you check yes on jobs you are no longer at, and no on your current job so your job will not know you are looking elsewhere.
@@gagewyn good point! However, I always select yes to that too. Saying no could have a negative connotation, such as “are you afraid your current employer is going to to say something bad about you?”. To my understanding, and please someone correct me if I’m wrong about this, jobs will offer you the job before they start calling. Then they’ll tell you, your offer is contingent on your references, etc, which probably includes calling your previous employer. If you’re offered the new job, you’ll be able to let your current employer know well before they get the call from the new job inquiring about you.
Put your friends as references and say it's your old managers. Have your friend act busy when answering. Yayaya I'm busy what's this about? Dave?? Dave Patterson?? Ya what about him? Reference? Ya he was good. I don't got time for this I'm busy! (Click) References are so stupid. Employers and their delusions of grandeur.
References are so dumb, now that I’ve been a reference for a few people. I give glowing references to the good employees, but mediocre/bad employees only get a reference that is like 20% less good. I have no loyalty to the other company, and only bad things can happen by being honest with them. It’s way too traceable back to me if they don’t get the job, and I still have to work with them. If they’re really bad, I just want them gone.
In most cases, there’s only certain questions that a new employer can ask their references. Like maybe only verify the person worked there and only give the job title, dates of employment and pay and also not even disclose the status upon a person’s departure.
References are fucking stupid, I landed a director level position after giving BS references. My brother acted as a former co-worker, my best friend acted as a former subordinate, and I got a TracFone and literally had them call me and I acted like I was my old boss. I'm now making 110k a year.
I work for a state university, and have been on quite a few Search Committees there (HR does not serve on the Committees, but we turn in our choices to them, and they do the actual hiring). Part of the protocol is that we really do check all references.
I’ve had bitter bosses go from singing my praises in 1:1 sessions, to picking me apart and trying to block internal promotions when I expressed interest in moving up. Bosses are not impartial references.
My mother worked for a small business who had a worker who would answer the phone sometimes. If the call was asking for a reference for a fellow employee, she would say terrible things about that employee just because. I guess she got her kicks out of it.
If the interviewe is not hired because of a bad reference and asks the interviewer was decision not to hire based on a bad reference obtained, what are the chances of that truth being revealed as opposed to a dismissive explanation?
What makes it hard for me, using references, is when 2 of my former employers went out of business, and the hiring company asks why they can't get in touch with them. I would ask the recruiter, "Did you check with the chamber of commerce? Alternatively, did you check to see what their EIN was with the Secretary of State office? I assure you, I did work for them, and they did exist." Typical answers were as follows: 1) We don't have time to do that. 2) Why didn't you mention that in your resume or application? 3) (similar to #2) You need to find a way to contact someone who used to work there, or we can't go forward. Seems kinda lazy and dumb, on their part. However, I can empathize with the fact, if you have 100's or 1000's of applicants, and you're trying to verify a candidate you're interested in, only to be stymied by the hiccup mentioned above, then that applicant is audibly irritated on the phone with you, you're going to dumb their app into the shredder pretty quick. It's a rather sad dichotomy.
I've been on three sides of this matrix. (1) I've had to provide references for my own job searches, (2) I've had to call references when hiring employees, and (3) I've been a reference for others who are searching for jobs. On occasion, when I've called someone else's reference, the person is either surprised that they were named or else provide a lukewarm response. Fearing that outcome when I'm in a job search, I always work with my own references ahead of time--and that includes sending them a copy of my resume along with any job postings or advertisements so they can be prepared for the kind of job I'm going for and have some responses ready. No one needs surprises during a reference check.
We will only check references if we have multiple candidates that are qualified for the job and need that "tie breaker" to make a hiring decision. As a side note. In my state a reference can not state anything derogatory against the person you are calling about as they can be sued if the candidate finds out. With that said, if you ask the references the right questions you can get to the answer you are looking for without jeopardizing them.
Respectfully, if I as your boss say to a prospective employer, “I would not hire him, he was terrible”, there is is no liability IF it is true or false, but is shown to be a personal opinion. Slander and Libel both require specific criteria to be met. In this example, I don’t see the criteria being met.
The fact that you don't see it means you have never been involved in a slander/libel lawsuit. To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact, "he was a bad employee", how is this a fact?; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person - documented communication with the reference checker; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence - "providing factually incorrect statement"; and 4) damages, or harm caused to the person who is the subject of the statement - "pay missed wages due to not being hired. All of you are so smart, but when you're served you start shaking like leaves
Legally speaking on a federal level past employers can only divulge a few things....hire date, separation date, and salary... Eligibility for rehire is such a huge window depending on company policy.
What’s difficult about giving your references a heads up about potential calls is that, for me, in dozens and dozens of interview processes requiring references, all but two asked for them in the application stage. It’s just not feasible to reach out every time you apply for a job and say, “Hey, someone from this laundry list of companies may or may never call you.” In those two instances I checked in and confirmed with my references, but from my end I never know when in the process a hiring manager is going to call.
I don't think they check references. My last "real job" I flat out lied about references, I gave fake addresses and phone numbers. Nobody ever questioned me about them or held me accountable. -- AT
In my industry I tend to work often with the same recruiters to fill positions for my company that are also calling on behalf of former employees, so they all know the drill. As a manager, if I am called and asked to give a reference one of two things is typically going to happen. I'm going to refer you to HR (which means they left on bad terms or just were not a good fit for us), or I will give a glowing reference. Only once have I ever given a negative feedback, and it was someone who didn't ask me first, and should have known better. They were let go for reasons I did not elaborate (but would NEVER hire again for any reason) and used me as a "personal" reference instead of a professional reference.
Thank you for all the thoughtful and really useful content on your videos. Please do a video on any of the below topics. 1. These days I keep seeing a common thing between a lot of my scheduled interviews and that is, the interviewers do not call on the agreed upon time and sometimes they don't even care to say sorry for wasting my time or leaving a candidate hanging. What's your tale on this as a recruiter? Also on teh other hand, how would you react if a candidate is a no-show? 2. I do not add any of my co-workers on social media and I am sure why that's a good practice. However, I am wondering to see, to what extent is it a good idea to add co-workers or essentially people from the same team on LinkedIn? 3. Are the LinkedIn references useful? If so, to what extent are they useful? 4. Are the skill endorsements useful? and to what extent? 5. Often times I face a problem when I ask my manager that I would like to grow inside a company. Essentially, I would like to move around in different roles for every two years and they do not support me. They lock me in one team and even though I like the company, they make it really hard to move around. What do you do in this situation? 6. How to negotiate your employer to pay partially or support continous education? 7. Is a little bit of humor appreciated in the interviews? if so, to what extent? because, often times I joke around with my co-workers and it keeps the situation lively and easy to work with and I hope to feel the same way when I am being interviewed into a new team. 8. If you have a lot of moving around on your profile, (switching companies every two years or so) how does that affect in the eyes of a recruiter? does it show that he can handle mutiple projects with wide range of experience or does it hurt? I know that's a lot of questions but I thought you could have some ideas on what candidates wonder about? and more ideas to make thoughtful videos and support growing and hopeful job seekers! Once again, Thank you so much! I wish I could connect with you in my LinkedIn network. Thanks! My linkedin profile: www.linkedin.com/in/nalamraviteja/ (If you ever wish to connect with a prospective candidate ;) )
Corporations: We do NOT give out references.
Also Corporations: We demand several references.
@@OnyemaechiAmuro That is the legal standard where I live.
i dont like reference , non of their business
@@OnyemaechiAmuro They have grown sensitive to what kinds of questions they ask. They do call and/or have an online form for the reference to fill, but they don't even check if they are real. I have submitted friends as professional references, and they just believe whatever they say.
Just end the concept of references. It's a waist of time and an outdated concept.
Also, virtually every reference callback that was done for me was in order to recruit them for a different job. My friends found it very annoying.
@@everythingisfine9988 I totally agree with you.
I wish I could use my previous employer as a reference, but I can no longer trust them.
Can you elaborate? Why?
@spirals 73 there are employment lawyers who can help with no win no fee basis.
I had a former manager who was a complete scumbag. When I gave my notice he accused me of bluffing because he never got a call as a reference. He stated in a meeting with the Director that I would be begging for my job back on what would be my last day. The admin assistant told me what he said and was laughing hysterically inside. Some people are completely delusional.
Anyone can be a reference
Most of the time we leave toxic companies. And yet even after we leave we are still subject to their sabotage
I interviewed for a very menial position in a hospital's gift shop. They required references, which I provided, but then they demanded I provide my previous manager's personal e-mail address. Not the company's HR contact information but the actual manager's private e-mail.
I explained to the hospital that my previous employer was a bank, and because of security reasons managers weren't permitted to get close to employees. I couldn't just call up my previous manager and ask for him for his personal email.
The hospital said that they understood, but it was their policy and required for all applicants. Then the hospital said something that really pissed me off.
After I called the hospital's HR department to question this policy further, they said that they too have a policy against managers giving out personal information to employees. So, basically they were asking for something that they themselves weren't permitted to provide.
When I pointed out the hypocrisy of the situation, the HR lady got very nasty with me. I immediately withdrew my application stating that I rather not be associated with their hospital and their unfair hiring practices.
I wonder how many applicants faked it. Gave a fake email and just pretended to respond as their previous managers?
shoulda reported that to your general attorney
@@Layarion It was 11 years ago, and at the time I didn't know if it were illegal or not. Plus, I live in the United States, in a red state (Republican controlled) where workers have very little rights. Most companies here constantly do these unethical but somewhat legal things.
Giving fake references is so common, and easy, it's why I think the practice of asking for references is just a huge waste of time.
@@JohnDoe-pf6qp I was thinking the same thing. I can't believe that EVERYONE who got a job there actually got their previous manager's personal email. I know they faked it.
@@Layarion More like the !labor Board.
Everyone deserves a second chance. If you didn’t perform in the last job it doesn’t mean you can never ever perform in your life again.
Often poor performance is due to poor management and chemistry. Not due to the employee's ability
@@MrKarlozz So TRUE. I worked in Cruise Line for the longest time. With the new superliner it's always SHORT STAFF. The one working on board have to wear a lot of hats to make the operation for service move on. When I was appraised I was given just 3 in all the field for grading. They focused on selling. How can you sell when you have to do different jobs all at the same time & when there are packages availing unlimited drinks. You are absolutely RIGHT.
@@larasmith5723
They're just giving you shitty performance reviews to keep your salary low. They know they're setting you up for failure, and the moment you just slightly challenge their appraisals they shoot your arguments down. Hope you're working at a better place now.
@@MrKarlozz Thank you for that realization. That company is really shit. I had an accident on board, sent me home, didn't approved my surgery & injection, then fired me. I'm glad they did as I had enough of all the BS.
@@MrKarlozz I'm moving on positively. I had both knee surgeries at the end of this month. My own expense. I'm sure when I get better much more opportunities will come my way. I've learned that loyalty is a thing of the past. The longer I've stayed the more the company doesn't really care about your well being & safety on board. It took a complaint from a passenger to my boss to let me have a decent rest as I wasn't been given medical attention & continuously working for weeks limping. I complaint to the HR to at least send me ashore to be check by a specialist but didn't happend. Instead they send home only to be kicked out eventually. That family thinking & all safety protocols etc. are all lies company wants their employees to think. They want you to think that they care & that you can speak to them anytime. All of the videos here are all eye opener & TRUE. I've learned the lesson the HARD WAY.
I was advised early on: Get someone to actually call your references first (a non-recruiting person you trust), hear what they have to say - _before_ putting them on paper for job application.
great advice
Yes, good advice
@Captain Chaos I would get a friend to call pretending to be in that I've employer role.
That's clever if you don't trust the person. What happens if they catch on to what's happening?
@Captain Chaos Let Elizabeth Holmes make the call, she is excellent in disguising her voice.
I feel that references are a huge waste of time and a nuisance. Workplaces should judge the person's abilities themselves not ask their previous employers as some don't get on well or they give bad review or had not work for a very long time and they don't remember them.
You are absolutely right! Why must companies make the hiring process so complicating?
I find it strange when companies won't give out references but to work there you have to give them references...
The twilight zone
The company's references are all over the internet.
💯🔥💯🔥
@Matthew Cox,
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that illegal? I believe I once heard somewhere that if an employer were to speak poorly of a former employee, that they’re breaking the law. That at worst, all they can do is acknowledge that you had worked there, but nothing more.
Used to be that people might talk, but today's climate is sue-happy. The only reference a company may give out is simply to verify that I actually used to work there.
was part of a mass lay off, I requested a reference letter and was told they do not provide but they insisted on my providing 3 when they hired me.
Give them the name & personal phone number of three co-workers that liked you.
@@lisamarielund6292
This is good advice.
I would add that it's probably also a good idea to talk to one of your managers, seniors or what have you that got along with you.
@@lisamarielund6292 loool , i have 2 friends who are always my reference , regardless of the company where i apply (accountant) . The system fucked me once , i am never giving any real manager number .
Talking about trust issue
@@lilsabin someone should start a business like this
I actually think the practice of asking for references should just be outlawed. If you call me to ask about a previous employee more than likely I'm just going to say yes they worked here and decline to answer any additional questions. If you are going to answer any additional questions you should NEVER stray outside of what can be factually documented (start date, end date, salary). Any sort of opinion based statement can land you in a world of shit and it's just not a good idea to even address the question.
Employee's salary is nobody else's business. You're asking for legal trouble.
In Canada it’s illegal to give a bad reference. It’s something to do with hindering someone’s prospects of gainful employment.
@@GCata-ys3hw Supreme Court of Canada ruled you can give a bad reference as long as the main motivation is not malicious. Fairly recent case.
@@wclark3196 I had no idea, thanks for letting me know.
More government regulation is never the answer.
So if my current employer finds out that I am applying for a new job, I get terminated.
And then my new employer asks for a recommendation from the person who fired me.
How does this make any sense ???
I once had one of my references DISSING me when he was called. We'd worked together a couple of years before, and all was fine. But, the work was drying-up and competition was fierce. Since we'd worked together, I'd learned more about HIS specialty ( USB Macintosh Drivers ) and was now a competitor to him. He didn't even live in the same area, so I didn't think it was a problem. The employer called me, and told me that my reference had obliterated me - then hired me on the spot.
I dunno what country you live in but in the UK that's illegal. In my experience almost nobody checks references.
I was going through this for 2 years trying to get a job, until finally a recruiter told me. The information was untrue, but I was young and i experienced, and now had no other references. Which in turn cost me another year.
Wait whyd he hire you still?
@@sanguineregis5354 Some hiring managers, especially the good ones, can sniff out toxic work environments and the people who make them that way. After all, the person applying is doing so for a reason, and if that person is polite in the way they say they would like to go a different direction in their career coupled with that kind of reference, they get a good idea why you don't want to be headed that same direction.
@@sanguineregis5354 The other 3 references lauded me, and he could tell envy when he heard it. I ended-up getting three long term contracts with that firm over the years.
The comments about giving refences are spot on. The last company I worked for strictly forbid managers giving out references and all they would do is refer the person to HR and verify employment dates and title
this is exactly why all my past references are my friends and family posing as former supervisors. and they give glowing references because i can control the narrative.
Yep, I worked for a wall st firm many years ago, only employment dates, and that required consent. HR told me they had a big lawsuit over that issue and changed their policy.
I once told an employer that I was going to have a problem with references because I didn't know anyone. I don't know anyone personally to give address or phone for, I mean to say. They thought this was weird until I told them this: "I'm not here to make friends. I'm here to work. When I get a job, I clock in, do my job, and clock out. I don't have time to 'socialize' or 'get to know people'. I have a job to do that I am getting paid for, so I do it."
I got the job. The references I gave were my mother, sister, and girlfriend.
"but here's my dog's facetime ID"
@@supersasquatch my dog BETTER give me a good reference! Lol
When I got an apartment, I used my boss and my mom(who has a different last name from me) as my reference, and they didn't ask any questions about it.
what type of position was it?
@@mortiphasm5597 That'd be even better if your mom WAS your boss
The problems I had with providing references is that I rarely had contact with my manager. I just saw him once every blue moon. And the people I worked with were not buddy-buddy with me. They were just coworkers so I had no personal info on them like phone numbers and addresses. So I always ended up giving friends names. It wasn't exactly what employers were looking for but it is all I had to give.
I left my job because my boss gave his 'friend' a part-time job in my AP department and she proceeded to trash it department and create no end of messes for me to clean up.Add to that EVERYTHING was an argument and she 'only made a mistake, even though she made the same 'mistake' twice because apparently she doesn't feel it necessary to learn from them. She was totally unqualified to work in my department. After 10 years, I resigned abruptly because I could afford it and didn't want this garbage in my life. Add to that I'm highly introverted and prefer to live my life alone and in peace, I don't have 'references'. Nor would I recommend working there in any capacity. Toxic.
The interview process is brutal. Went through it once for a shit job... Decided self employment was the only way for me at 20 yrs old. I've never looked back...
And how old are you now?
@@MrKarlozz 22
@@re8746
2 years as self employed then? Hope you're slaying
I have once in my life been asked to be a reference, and at the time I worked for a fairly big company (3000+ employees) even though I was pretty low down on the corporate ladder. The reference request was for a friend of mine, applying for a job in a completely unrelated field (in which I happened to have some summer job experience lmao), and apparently the fancy exclusive corporate ending in my email address impressed them so they asked about my friend and her work ethics. I of course praised her to the skies and she got the job :D
i have been asked to provide references at every single job i have ever applied for. i have been a full time employee at 13 different companies in 4 different sectors across 2 decades.
Because of the slander liabilities now, I've found that former employers will now only confirm two things about former employees when a prospective employers calls for references; the former employees job title and their hire and separation dates. That's the only info some are willing to give out.
That is pretty much all most UK companies do. Date started, date left, job title/duties and maybe final salary. If nothing else it sorts out the fantasy CVs from the honest ones.
References are stupid seeing as how you are giving out 3 of your best people to vouch for you.
It's just a low bar to clear: Find 3 people who will put in a good word. If you're 16 and applying for a job at a fast food joint, your priest, teacher and neighbour are good references, because well, what do you expect a 16-year old kid would do? A local farmer who you've helped with work around the farm before etc. are also great.
But let's say our suburban teen, let's call her Jessie, wants to move up in the ranks of her local fast food franchise. She applies for assistant manager. Her references now would be someone they should like to call, like her manager, shift leader, etc. And then later she moves laterally into another business. In Norway we have sections of the supermarkets with different bosses. You have a Drywares boss (flour, pasta, jam, etc. Stuff you put on a normal shelf.), a dairyware boss, greenware boss (fruits and vegetables) freshware boss (butchery/fish/deli), and so on. I don't know the English lingo, so I'll use my weirdly translated Norwanglish for... flavour. Let's go with that.
So she applies for the position as green boss. She's great with customers, patient, helpful, knows the EU/EEA regulations, is tough but fair, etc. Since she's a manager at a franchise, her references could be the assistant manager, the franchise owner and say, the regional manager. When she later applies for the position of store boss her references could be store boss in her own store, store owner, other bosses, etc.
The people you show to vouch for you says something about you, and it gives applicants that don't like to brag about themselves (try to get an American to hire a Scandinavian, and watch as frustration builds. "So you say you know chess?" "I'm not too bad at it, I guess." "Wait, aren't you *the* Magnus Carlsen?" "Yes."
So if you're not comfortable with selling yourself, having some of your guys in your corner going to bat for you is immensely helpful to these personality types.
@@HrHaakon But what's tricky is if you haven't worked at a lot of places and your current place doesn't know you're looking. For example, I have worked at the same place for six years, in different positions, but it's a small team and my first job was there. If I had to provide a reference it would have to be from that place, because it would be very strange to give a student type reference after 6 years of working experience. Butttt... That would mean divulging to someone in a senior position I was looking for another job. I'm not currently, by the way, but you can see how that can get you in a bind.
@@HrHaakon moving up in a fast food franchise is not the best of careers. They tend to hire anyone with a pulse who passed highschool and has a car, so the social skills and environment are horrible.
I personally make 60k/yr at the moment and I was fired from a fast food job because I was not suited for the trashy culture and many conflicts ensued.
I'm sure there are a good handful of wholesome fast food joints out there, but that isn't the majority, especially in cities.
If you put down a reference who will diss you, then you deserve not getting the job. Way too many people don't bother to ask potential references if they can be a positive reference. It is always a risk though.
Not me shuffling up your videos from 2-3 years ago. A lot of helpful information, in fact, you're the first person I know that shares these internal perspectives because I wouldn't know anything about these processes as I don't work in HR. Thank you so much! I clicked on that notification bell too! Love the informative videos!!!!!
Thank you for making this channel. It’s majorly important for folks that feel insecure during layoff times. Been here before and would have loved to come across this channel then. You’re a true hero.
A lot of these large corporations actually outsource the hiring process to employment agencies as well to get the majority of their employees. I work for JP Morgan Chase and I originally got hired as a long-term temporary employee, and after a few years, I ended up getting hired by the company since they are very big on hiring within. I guess it makes it easier and less costly for them to just outsource that hiring process to another company, and when they feel that you will be a good asset to the company after working there as a temp for a while, that makes the process of hiring you permanently a lot easier for them. It also helps them weed out all the bad apples because temp agencies are known for hiring anybody, so when you get those rare employees that are actually good at their jobs, it’s less of a headache for the large corporation.
The problem with my references is that the people I used are too old or dead, so it's a non-issue anymore anyway.
You might need to provide the company a Ouija board to contact the references.
First, I've been binge-watching these videos, good job! Second, I had a job slip through my fingers because the hiring manager sent questionnaires to my references and those references did not complete the questionnaires. I didn't realize that could even screw up an interview until it happened!
Appreciate your binging ;). I’m surprised they would reject because of that. Normally I’d reach out to you to ask for different references.
A lot of former employers simply can't be bothered to respond. Usually only 1 in 3 will.
When I was asked for references for previous employees, I could only verify dates. To get around this, I would say things like..I can’t say that....(insert glowing reference here). *Hint hint, *wink wink. If they sucked with me, but the new company might be closer to that employee’s strengths, I would always help them out. I mean...car rental isn’t a job for everyone.
How do you handle the problem of references of a former employer, where no one that you worked with in the job/department is no longer in business!?
Ask a friend and problem solved.
That happened to me, about 5 years after I left a company the company no longer existed and the job was still on my resume. They had also changed names right before I left which made it almost unrecognizable. It was weird. I am still friends with one of my coworkers she was the EA to the VP so I asked her if I could use her as my reference for that position. I didn't have anyone else's contact info anymore. My best friend puts me down, she worked for the same company as well for a short time, I was her direct boss at the time. It was 20 years ago so none of us really have to use it anymore but for a while there it was funny how that circle worked.
@@WomanRoaring you could have used a cousin or your niece. Doesn't matter, a reference is nothing really.
Heh well it's a great thing... No one to say anything about you
Job references should be illegal except call to verify employment like job title and time frame. Even if you use a former boss with good relationship things could change when you leave. Also friends or co workers should not be used because when comes to job you have no idea what will be said or not. Getting a job these days is like going to court to avoid prison or be homeless. Sometimes all people have is the recruiter being their lawyer.
Government agency: HR could disclose two pieces of information: Did she/he work there. And is that person eligible for rehire? That is it
The eligibility of rehire is a slippery slope
If you have the skills, you should be already eligible
i dont even know what that means, US is really weird
If the person was fired for some reason, chances are the agency will not rehire them. Does this help?
This is what Orange County Florida 🗂 does. Just confirms the true data, if this person can be re-hired.
What does it mean "eligible for hire"?
As always, excellent information. I think that the entire references thing is a joke. An HR person is supposed to call a perfect stranger and believe whatever they say, and make decisions about it without any actual confirmation of who that person is or the veracity of what they say. They take whatever the stranger tells them, good or bad. It's a very outdated system that started based on the premise that professionals are people of absolute integrity and never lie. I have made the test and once I used all made-up references, and got away with them "verifying" the references, and got an offer.
Furthermore, actual references can be used only if they personally like you. If they don't, they will not give you a good reference (it has happened to me with a very vindictive past employer) regardless of how good of a professional you are. The other issue is that references are based on the premise that the person being called for reference is honest, impartial, professional and/or from company that is ethical, which is a joke since there are reasons why people are looking for alternatives to their current employment.
Also, with the possible legal liabilities that they imply, prospective employers ask minimum and very specific questions, which defeat the purpose of what references are supposed to be for in the first place. I honestly think it's time to look into finding a better ways of confirming people's past employment experiences.
I agree. References are stupid.
The thing about references that if you use your current manager as a reference that gives the heads up that you will be leaving and my fear is that if said manager doesn't want to loose you they may say they wouldn't hire you in order to keep you as an employee in their existing role. I never use current managers or anything like that for that reason, always a past manager.
Nowadays references are just difficult to have. If you're a good employee, I have noticed companies are bitter when you do leave for better pay and a higher position.
I had a company put me on the no-hire list because I had to leave 2 days early on my 2 week notice, but I notified HR a week before.
The job was a good reference for quality of my work because they use me to cover multiple managers that would leave the company.
But after my hard work, the only reference they would give "I'm on the no-hire list". I was hurt.
I bust my ass for that company. I called the company explaining I was a good employee, they said "HR policy is no 2 week notice, then you're on the no hired list. But I gave them a two notice and worked, left 2 days early with advance notice too.
Work for them or fuck your career future is how they do people.
Try former bosses and colleagues. That’s why it’s important not to burn bridges on you way out.
Yea that’s the best way if u have a boss that was under the big guy but over u guys and he’s just neutral u should be good they know ur work better than the big boss from observation anyways
Or she lol
@@ALifeAfterLayoff but the advice of not burning bridges isn’t really helpful.
When not burning brides means that you bust your ass while in the company, give them lots of weeks of notice to help them cover any losses of workload, or “knowledge transfer” to help with “transistion”, the company or your manager can still feel salty and put you on the no hire list.
It’s all set up to make the company come out better and lie about the good employee’s work ethic etc.
As a Scandinavian, I find it horrific to listen to this. Here it is outright illegal to say negative things as a reference, to make sure that former employers do not take revenge on perceived illoyality from a former employee
At a university it is against the law to give a negative reference. :-)
My last employer is a major financial institution and they are not allowed to give information because they have been sued before . I was a manager there for many years and only information we were allowed to give is whether they ever worked there. This is hard to explain on job applications because a lot of companies don’t know/believe this to be true. Therefore , I can’t use any of my former managers or employees from there as references 🤦🏻♀️
front door reference requests get shut down in montreal, it's almost seen as disrespectful to spam companies with such approaches. if you know someone on the inside you can ask informally and that's it. The rest is limited to "yeah, he worked here at some point, bye".
NC.... Since they believe you.. It is best for the potential emploer to call your employer to experience for themselves
Employer
shitty employers will think you have something to hide, and will see it as a red flag. This reference check thing should not even exist. It's such BS. It's an employers' responsibility to tell if the candidate is the person they are looking for. Job interviews exist for that purpose. Employer is free to ask for yet another interview if still unsure. Asking for a reference is like admitting you don't know your job as an employer, you are not competent enough to tell if the candidate is qualified, so you need someone else to do your job for you.
I've never had an issue with references, but this one job for an entry level position had asked me for 5 references within a week, and I thought it was insane given how little time and how busy they are..
Most HR drones don't have time to call all over hell's creation for every single new hires references or previous employers. Unless it's a small company that has alot of free time, it's not going to happen. Think about it, would you have the time to call 300 references on 100 applicants? Yeah.
Now I do list my friends as references. We all have an agreement between ourselves. They use me and I use them. We have a fictitious company we all worked for and we are all each other's managers. Only one of us actually received a call.
I appreciate the video. Makes me real confident about my references. ALL MANAGERS. They've all been with me in the trenches.
I am under the impression that legally, the only questions HR can ask another HR person is dates of employment and salary, Not, “is there anything else I should know...”. is this true or false? One of the reasons I left a previous job was my boss blatantly ignored me for two weeks. my boss was the jerk, not me.
Yes - HR from a company is only allowed to give start and end dates in a lot of states and your title but I doubt salary is one of the things they can discuss about a current or previous employee. Seems like that is private information that shouldn't be made public without your consent as it may paint you in a poor light if you are jumping up in pay quite a bit.
Key advice on make sure the reference is going to be good! Long ago, I was on an admissions committee for a PhD program. One student applicant had a reference from his department head that said "I wouldn't take this student for the program at my university and I don't recommend him for yours" I was amused but the professors were annoyed, saying that the department head should have told the student that he would not be able to give a positive reference rather than doing this. Of course, in some small colleges (and small companies for that matter) there may not have been a lot of choice of who the applicant could ask. And sadly, although people felt bad for the student being blind-sided by this, we didn't give him a place, because he had a bad reference!
Yes, they do. I interviewed yesterday and already two of my references have let me know they were contacted and wished me well in getting an offer.
in short companies ask for references but don't give them out, whole thing is a joke
References are such a waste of time for damn near everyone involved, plain and simple. Companies need to get away from requesting these and trust they are able to judge the persons resume, screening and interviewing skills that they are the right person for the job. Usually references (normally a good friend(s) you used to work with or just a good friend to you that are lying on your behalf) are just saying what they think you want to hear and not what is the real deal.
Edit: Lets not forget a actual former managers or coworkers who you thought you were on good terms with who get some jollies off by trash talking you when they get calls for reference checks. How could you ever know they are bad mouthing you if they act nice to your face? It's just absolute nonsense and is really a practice that needs to be abolished.
We're not talking about your buddy's reference. In higher education, it is to verify the type of job skills you have and how they apply to the job you're applying to. Sure personally, I go a lot off of intuition and feeling for someone. I have been right a lot more than wrong - if I think their interview and skills on their resume correlate/translate, I take that chance. We're required to check references. It can be enlightening though.
@@petelee2477 I suppose the only way I could couch that would be to verify that a) you were reliable and dependable; b) you showed leadership qualities and poise under pressure (and in your pants). Sorry that last one was from a commercial that always gets me. I guess it would speak to your character. It is hard to translate one type of work for another. Some bosses dismiss it totally and sometimes a creative boss may look at it favorably and in a different way. Who knows?
Note that I've also had hiring companies come back at me after hiring someone I recommended. A former employee of mine used me as a reference, and as I had no issue with them I have them a positive review. The new employer hired them, but quickly things went south for reasons I'm not party to. They called me back trying to hold me to account for giving a good reference. Doesn't put me off giving good reviews. On the other hand I had a HR company approach me last year for a reference only to begin by saying I shouldn't continue if I was going to say anything negative. If so what is the point of wasting my time?
I assume that the company found negative reviews were more indicative of the reference and their personality rather than the applicant themselves. (I think we can all think of individuals who like to bad-mouth others, and these may make up a good portion of negative reviews. Most people, after all, wouldn't mention the bad parts about someone when giving a reference.) The positive things said about a person may be a better reflection of the person than the negative ones.
Yeah wow, seems like a total waste of time! I can't believe they called you to complain wow, your former employee probably had an issue with them because they were crazy!
I actually had that happen to someone I was hiring. On paper, they looked fantastic. The interview went well. The references were so glowing for this person - you would not believe. This was the absolute WORST employee I have ever had. I don't think she could actually read. She was argumentative from day one. She wouldn't follow directions and couldn't do an excel spreadsheet or fill out a form to save her life. She was awful with students. She tried to "steal" time. I thought they sent me a pod person instead of the real person.
In my 25+ years of work experience, I would say 50/50. Most companies will not call back or email the person trying to get a reference. Also, 50/50 on education checks. I know dozens of individuals that put degrees they don't have or a higher degree they don't have or are working on, and they all got hired!
I'm 58 yrs old. I have several good references, but nobody has ever called them. The whole process of getting hired is a big BS game.
Yea I would agree actually. I remember when I applied to this fast job in the past, and the only experience I had was that I worked at Shakeys (a fast food pizza place). While I was working at Shakeys, I was very rebellious, I would take longer breaks than I was supposed to, eat on my 10's when I wasn't supposed to to, talk a lot instead of working that much, and not do that much work overall. I've matured since then I'm not like that anymore. But at the time that's the only reference I had when applying to my new fast food job, so I put down Shakeys and their phone number. And I ended up getting a job pretty easy lol. In all honesty you can probably put a fake reference phone number, put the real place you worked at, but for the phone number just get like one digit off so the call wont go anywhere, the hiring manager really wont care to be honest.
Edit: Also currently I have a bunch of references on my resume that arent even in business anymore, and I still get hired at different jobs lol so its really not a big deal.
Reference checks are so yesteryear! Why would any candidate provide you with any reference that make them look bad?
If a recruiter or employer asks for references before a job interview invitation write to them as follows:-
I would be happy to turn over my references list after the company and I had established a mutual interest.
There are lots of unscrupulous employers out there. Make sure you do your homework before accepting a position.
I've been tossed around a lot at jobs and had just had it up to here. Then a friend asked if I wanted a job. I said no, changed my mind 2 months later and now work in the chillest place keeping fabric in the wear house in order, making sc, po and invoices documents. The boss is very kind and I never even gave a resume or had an interview. Life is good again 🙌☕
Your videos are pure gold. Thanks, Bryan. And thanks for the add on LinkedIn as well. I'm also in the Nash area
Thanks Justin. Appreciate the vibes.
In Japan, Japanese companies WILL check references or they will actually call your previous employer without telling you (this happened in 2022 to someone who left my company and I took the call from his next employer's HR department). In my case I was interviewing for a Japanese company in NJ but HQ in Japan called my previous employer in Tokyo (about 25 yrs. ago).
This is true in education too. I have heard from undergrad professors they wont write a recommendation letter for a student they didn’t like for either jobs or grad school because professors have been sued and lost in court.
Oh wow, I'm so relieved my professors are willing to help me with letters of recommendation..
This is totally true. By law you really have to be very careful what you say. Whether staff or faculty.
@@Ephesians5-14 That means you are a good egg! :-) If a faculty member does that, they think a lot of you. I have faculty members giving me great references (as a staffer) - that is rare. It is so heartening. Good luck to you!
What if my reference says they dont know me despite having work for them basically they are lying
What if you’re an introvert person or don’t have a lot of work experience what do you do?
Any company I’ve ever worked for instructs employees to send all calls for reference checks to HR & HR only verifies dates of employment.
This was a great video. Informative and easy to understand. Thank you.
Thanks for the videos, I've found them useful in self employment since every new customer is an interview then they become your boss. The lessons on self value and toxic bosses are do valuable.
The legal term you were looking for is defamation.
Hey Brent, I really appreciate your videos. I am a college student who is going through the job hunt right now, and it is both difficult and tiring. Having someone like you in my corner to teach me about the process is helpful. I have a question about your work as a recruiter. Did you always want to go into recruiting? I've never met anyone who wanted to be a recruiter, but you seem like you're both knowledgeable in the field and very invested in your job. How do you keep your motivation and commitmnt so high (to this, or any job)?
Thanks Steven. I'm not sure anyone gets into HR to become a recruiter, to be honest. It just kinda happens. But it can be a solid career path. I've chosen the corporate side vs being a headhunter because I didn't like the idea of pressuring someone into a role so that I get a placement. I'll probably make a video about being motivated and finding passion, so thanks for the great idea!
reference checks are antiquated & serve no real purpose. & its even more of a joke b/c most companies will turn around & not provide references, so it really is pointless. I have used references that I made up (friends who are professionals) & that solved that annoying problem.
You should do a video on "backdoor references" . I had a situation where I ended up interviewing great in the first stages with a company and then was ghosted. After looking through LinkedIn I discovered someone I worked with several years ago was now working for the company I was interviewing at in the same department. We had a personality conflict in our previous work life so I am sure my resume was socialized among their team where the person recognized my name and badmouthed me.
i once got a call from a former employees prospective employer asking me about that person. thing was, they were quite literally the most incompetent, lazy person id ever worked with. i politely told them that i would absolutely rehire that person for an extremely menial role with zero responsibilities and very low compensation. im pretty sure the HR person on the other line understood my point because she said: "ohhh wow ok well thank you very much youve been very helpful".
If they ask for 3 references provide 3.. do not provide 4,5 or 8 most HR department will check ALL of them and will not offer until they have talked to everyone... One person is unreachable and the whole process gets stalled.
I've been interviewing for 20+ years. Don't think I've ever checked a reference. In my experience they're usually pre-primed people that are there to give a positive response. I have, on occasion, randomly called people at the company to ask for an impromptu reference, and that tends to get a much more honest appraisal. But IMHO if a candidate does themselves justice in the interview then there's little need for me to ask other people.
Why ask for them if you don't need them?
aren't you checking references if you're calling where they've worked, just not the people they provided for you?
What do you do if most of your previous employers were big corporations and won’t give out references and your potential employer wants references?
Try asking your former boss directly.
My new job hasn't asked for any references. They interviewed me and loved me. My last job didn't ask for references, either. I thought it was weird, but apparently they're not as common as I thought they would be.
but they don't honestly know if you've actually given them a legit manager's direct number and not a trusted friend/peer who you filled in about the job and gave a heads up to expect the call... aside from "honesty is good and lying is bad"... I've had managers who used cell phones with numbers that weren't listed/online, small managers within a tiny local section of larger companies- again with little local numbers you don't find when you google the company and can't really just look up, not to mention a customer or client as recommended could be literally anyone, again without any kind of searchable, verifiable info, then I've worked for people who have left a company and moved out of state for a different line of work and completely lost contact because we aren't buddies, I've worked for people who have passed away - really what's to stop me from giving anyone's number I trust besides "lying is bad"?
This makes me feel much more confident about getting this job 👍
I supervised an employee who used me as a reference. She was always 20 minutes to an hour late to work . She cut corners when it came to her job and she always had a bad attitude. I couldn’t believe she used me as a reference. When her potential new employer asked if I would hire her back, I simply said, “That’s not my call.”
that is because ,"maybe" you were the "coolest" person with her at work , or the only person she "felt" good with . Not everyone think the same way :)
@@lilsabin. I’m always cordial and professional with anyone I work with so that could explain why she used me as a reference, but she made it a nightmare maintaining office morale. Her constant tardiness and absence made it hard on her co-workers. Often times they had to pick up the slack for her. Suffice it to say, they where glad when her employment was finally terminated.
If you are late, you buy me a cake (no cheap shit, then I switch your time on the roster so you were ‘on time’
I don’t do half hours though. That means 5-10 minutes late will cost you 15-20 on the cake and an hour of free work;)
People rarely came late :)
@@thulegezelschap5884 You have a name like a tyrant too. You cake-scoffing monster.
@@PORRRIDGE_GUN they did call me Hitler yes :)
It really depends on what field you're in. Most corporations in the business/finance/accounting world, in my experience, barely ever call references. Managers look at so many applications and resumes and they simply don't have time to call references for each candidate. From what I've heard, most references they get don't even reply to their emails/phone calls. Hell, most hiring managers I've met admitted to me that they skip cover letters!
Unless you're trying to apply for a prestigious position, you don't always need references.
I have gotten all the way through an application amd then they asked for personal references, including their home address. How bout yall put that stuff at the top so I can see it early enough to not fill out an application for you?
You will not believe how many people do not update their resumes, references, etc. I cannot tell you how hard it was to really get the proper references for a person. That person turned out to be a real sh&tshow. Some things matter. I don't know about home address though, nowadays. In my most recent job search it has all been over zoom or email, etc.
@@jbjacobs9514 I hardly see how personal references would have helped that, though. I dont know about you, but I'd have whoever my personal references lie for me if I needed a little extra juice to help get me the job. Don't get me wrong, I know there needs to be a good way of making sure you are hiring the right person, but trusting their friends seems to easy to manipulate.
@@genericfighter There is a difference between fudging for your buddy and straight out lying about a person's qualifications. In the end it hurts them and your credibility. I don't generally ask for references from "friends" though - all of mine are professional references. I am working in research administration so you need references that will speak to your abilities in a way you can't fudge too much. :-)
@@jbjacobs9514 ah, I gotcha. I do not envy anyone trying to figure out if a candidate is worth trying out. I didnt even vouch for my brother when he applied to a place I worked.
@@genericfighter Yeah, that would have been sticky! I feel ya. You really never know about people!
Thank you so much for this video! I've "used up" a lot of my best references, due to roles that were just not sustainable. I once had to give six references, three professional and three personal.
Self-employed. I applied for a few corporate jobs. The prospective employers wanted my client list.:-( I told them the most I would provide is 2-3 reference clients and maybe an old employer. I never heard from them again!
I am not providing them with a targeted sales prospect list. More than once, I have heard for people, in good faith, turning over client lists. What happened was the prospective employer's SALES department contacted them in a few weeks. What is the audiences thoughts?
In the UK, you can't legally give someone a bad reference and it has to be from a professional email account for all the issues talked about in the video. It's the old saying of, 'if you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything at all.'
Here in Texas, employers are notorious on giving out negative or nasty references just to hurt a former employee. I was working at a company and had to verify references. One former employer told me that the former employee had AIDS and should be avoided. I was in shock when I heard this and so I told my supervisor about what I was told. My supervisor told me to just file the application to the "do not hire" file.
@@ericbingham-kumpfcomposer5293 that’s disgusting 😱😡
@@amandatropp It was horrible and I was just shocked. I wonder how many times this applicant was bad mouthed by this former employer.
I’ve rarely had a job actually call my references, although they all ask for them.
The rest of the world uses letters of recommendation which I'm sad you didn't even mention. Considering the liability issues, these letters make more sense. Also here in the USA I have never EVER had one of my referenced contacted, but I did have most of people I had to list on a Background Check *government job* contacted.
Yea, as a teacher, all of my references always get contacted. Which makes sense since Im working with kids
I was also wondering about letters of recommendation. I mean, you need them for internships and to get into post graduate schools. However I doubt most people would take the time to do it on behalf of someone else...
@@jarronwilliams7227 Yep, the only time my references have been contacted was when I applied for jobs in the education sector.
Government jobs are different. Very different from other jobs. Our university does background checks on all final candidates and requires reference checks from at least 3 people and they choose from your list and they DO contact them about the way you fit in the job they are advertising.
: Forming part of HR functions is the verification of potential staff profiles as stated in their CVs before a formal contract of employment is issued. Give a list of key aspects of a CV that may require further due diligence and how will you go about the verification process.?
What if i don’t want my current company to know that im applying for a new job somewhere else? The moment they know an employee is looking for a new job, they treat that person differently or could let go that same day....the new company im applying for wants a background check? Any advice?
Indicate on the app that you do not give permission for them to contact your current employer - any reputable company would oblige. And don’t use anyone at the current company for a reference. Even if you trust them.
A Life After Layoff - thank you for the reply. It’s really helpful. I have another question. Is it worth giving up a job in a corporate auditing firm (but super stressful and making me literally sick, anxiety and sleepless nights) to a blue collar job labor work with the same pay but a far drive? I want to quit but at the same time i have financial obligations and need insurance. Thank you.
@@ALifeAfterLayoff define reputable
typically on an application there is a "can we contact current employer" box and you check no. that lets them know that you don't want them to know you're looking for a job, if you check yes then they know it's ok to call. If you get to the interview you can let them know that they can't contact them because you'll be fired and you would like to leave on good terms. They should respect that, if they don't then they won't respect you.
In some cases, you can totally get around that. Unless they say they have to talk to your current boss, you can check no in the "can we contact your current employer" section. Most of the time they just check the references you provided. There are many reasons you may not want your current employer to be a referee for you. Sometimes they can't either. They may even be gone or retired. A background check is generally just to check for criminal activity in that state - nothing to do with your actual job or performance. Just that you haven't committed a crime in that state and that you are not on the sex offender registry.
In North Carolina school systems, Principals are required to call references before extend offers through Human Resources.
Yup, that's pretty common.
Same in UNC Flagship system universities. The offers all come through HR but we are required to unofficially offer a position so that we can add it to a compliance report for the state.
If you’re going from one big company to another, also depends on the position you’re taking over, the chances of them asking for a reference or even verifying is highly unlikely.
Like mentioned in the video, HR is pretty tight-lipped about this to limit liability. They will just confirm your title, and hiring date. They will NOT get into the nitty gritty on the habits of the employee. So other large organizations are not going to waste their time checking since they probably have the same policies in place.
What do you do if your previous companies won’t give work references
Thanks man. I've subbed to your channel already. This is one of the job seeking problem that I'm having at the moment.
Normally what follows up after you list your references is “May we call these references?”. What happens if you check “No”?
Red flag for the employer
@@Nallisn not necessarily. It could be because that employer no longer works there.
@@kyleroberts1276 Well usually there’s no where to put on an application that your particular manager no longer works there. It’s usually, name of manger, number, and can we contact them. You’re going to leave it up to the potential employer to assume that’s why you put no? Risky. They could also assume the other way as well, which would be bad for you. I would just select yes, and if they call asking for that manager, they will be told the person no longer is employed there.
I always assumed this was to let you check yes on jobs you are no longer at, and no on your current job so your job will not know you are looking elsewhere.
@@gagewyn good point! However, I always select yes to that too. Saying no could have a negative connotation, such as “are you afraid your current employer is going to to say something bad about you?”. To my understanding, and please someone correct me if I’m wrong about this, jobs will offer you the job before they start calling. Then they’ll tell you, your offer is contingent on your references, etc, which probably includes calling your previous employer. If you’re offered the new job, you’ll be able to let your current employer know well before they get the call from the new job inquiring about you.
I have never once had a reference called, be it a previous boss or a relation.
I know, because I have asked on both sides.
Put your friends as references and say it's your old managers. Have your friend act busy when answering. Yayaya I'm busy what's this about? Dave?? Dave Patterson?? Ya what about him? Reference? Ya he was good. I don't got time for this I'm busy! (Click)
References are so stupid. Employers and their delusions of grandeur.
The weirdest one was a small market that wanted personal references, in so many words they said "like a roommate or something."
i provide 3 references to the company but they still not contact any of them , i provide them 15 days ago
Mine didn’t too
References are so dumb, now that I’ve been a reference for a few people. I give glowing references to the good employees, but mediocre/bad employees only get a reference that is like 20% less good. I have no loyalty to the other company, and only bad things can happen by being honest with them. It’s way too traceable back to me if they don’t get the job, and I still have to work with them. If they’re really bad, I just want them gone.
Burner phone, fake website, be your own reference. Practice a fake boss voice...jk probable future employer if you read this.
In most cases, there’s only certain questions that a new employer can ask their references. Like maybe only verify the person worked there and only give the job title, dates of employment and pay and also not even disclose the status upon a person’s departure.
References are fucking stupid, I landed a director level position after giving BS references. My brother acted as a former co-worker, my best friend acted as a former subordinate, and I got a TracFone and literally had them call me and I acted like I was my old boss.
I'm now making 110k a year.
I work for a state university, and have been on quite a few Search Committees there (HR does not serve on the Committees, but we turn in our choices to them, and they do the actual hiring). Part of the protocol is that we really do check all references.
I know SUNY In NY REQUIRES references for almost any job. I used to teach but wanted a programmer job so it was easy. I still had to list them.
I’ve had bitter bosses go from singing my praises in 1:1 sessions, to picking me apart and trying to block internal promotions when I expressed interest in moving up.
Bosses are not impartial references.
My mother worked for a small business who had a worker who would answer the phone sometimes. If the call was asking for a reference for a fellow employee, she would say terrible things about that employee just because. I guess she got her kicks out of it.
If the interviewe is not hired because of a bad reference and asks the interviewer was decision not to hire based on a bad reference obtained, what are the chances of that truth being revealed as opposed to a dismissive explanation?
None lol. They can get on big trouble if they openly say you that
What I've done about that is list previous employers that I knew the management had changed or, in one case, had closed.
What makes it hard for me, using references, is when 2 of my former employers went out of business, and the hiring company asks why they can't get in touch with them. I would ask the recruiter, "Did you check with the chamber of commerce? Alternatively, did you check to see what their EIN was with the Secretary of State office? I assure you, I did work for them, and they did exist."
Typical answers were as follows:
1) We don't have time to do that.
2) Why didn't you mention that in your resume or application?
3) (similar to #2) You need to find a way to contact someone who used to work there, or we can't go forward.
Seems kinda lazy and dumb, on their part. However, I can empathize with the fact, if you have 100's or 1000's of applicants, and you're trying to verify a candidate you're interested in, only to be stymied by the hiccup mentioned above, then that applicant is audibly irritated on the phone with you, you're going to dumb their app into the shredder pretty quick.
It's a rather sad dichotomy.
No company today allows anyone to give any references. Why even ask?
What if your references are sick and tired of being bothered again and again? Instead, i'm directing HR to saved testimonials.
I've been on three sides of this matrix. (1) I've had to provide references for my own job searches, (2) I've had to call references when hiring employees, and (3) I've been a reference for others who are searching for jobs.
On occasion, when I've called someone else's reference, the person is either surprised that they were named or else provide a lukewarm response. Fearing that outcome when I'm in a job search, I always work with my own references ahead of time--and that includes sending them a copy of my resume along with any job postings or advertisements so they can be prepared for the kind of job I'm going for and have some responses ready. No one needs surprises during a reference check.
We will only check references if we have multiple candidates that are qualified for the job and need that "tie breaker" to make a hiring decision.
As a side note. In my state a reference can not state anything derogatory against the person you are calling about as they can be sued if the candidate finds out. With that said, if you ask the references the right questions you can get to the answer you are looking for without jeopardizing them.
Respectfully, if I as your boss say to a prospective employer, “I would not hire him, he was terrible”, there is is no liability IF it is true or false, but is shown to be a personal opinion. Slander and Libel both require specific criteria to be met. In this example, I don’t see the criteria being met.
The fact that you don't see it means you have never been involved in a slander/libel lawsuit.
To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things:
1) a false statement purporting to be fact, "he was a bad employee", how is this a fact?;
2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person - documented communication with the reference checker;
3) fault amounting to at least negligence - "providing factually incorrect statement"; and
4) damages, or harm caused to the person who is the subject of the statement - "pay missed wages due to not being hired.
All of you are so smart, but when you're served you start shaking like leaves
@@Quentyn73 I like your analysis.
On a fun side note,I’m effectively judgment proof. I own no assets, so how do they gain anything if I cannot pay?
Legally speaking on a federal level past employers can only divulge a few things....hire date, separation date, and salary...
Eligibility for rehire is such a huge window depending on company policy.
What’s difficult about giving your references a heads up about potential calls is that, for me, in dozens and dozens of interview processes requiring references, all but two asked for them in the application stage. It’s just not feasible to reach out every time you apply for a job and say, “Hey, someone from this laundry list of companies may or may never call you.” In those two instances I checked in and confirmed with my references, but from my end I never know when in the process a hiring manager is going to call.
I don't think they check references. My last "real job" I flat out lied about references, I gave fake addresses and phone numbers. Nobody ever questioned me about them or held me accountable. -- AT
In my industry I tend to work often with the same recruiters to fill positions for my company that are also calling on behalf of former employees, so they all know the drill. As a manager, if I am called and asked to give a reference one of two things is typically going to happen. I'm going to refer you to HR (which means they left on bad terms or just were not a good fit for us), or I will give a glowing reference. Only once have I ever given a negative feedback, and it was someone who didn't ask me first, and should have known better. They were let go for reasons I did not elaborate (but would NEVER hire again for any reason) and used me as a "personal" reference instead of a professional reference.
Thank you for all the thoughtful and really useful content on your videos. Please do a video on any of the below topics.
1. These days I keep seeing a common thing between a lot of my scheduled interviews and that is, the interviewers do not call on the agreed upon time and sometimes they don't even care to say sorry for wasting my time or leaving a candidate hanging. What's your tale on this as a recruiter? Also on teh other hand, how would you react if a candidate is a no-show?
2. I do not add any of my co-workers on social media and I am sure why that's a good practice. However, I am wondering to see, to what extent is it a good idea to add co-workers or essentially people from the same team on LinkedIn?
3. Are the LinkedIn references useful? If so, to what extent are they useful?
4. Are the skill endorsements useful? and to what extent?
5. Often times I face a problem when I ask my manager that I would like to grow inside a company. Essentially, I would like to move around in different roles for every two years and they do not support me. They lock me in one team and even though I like the company, they make it really hard to move around. What do you do in this situation?
6. How to negotiate your employer to pay partially or support continous education?
7. Is a little bit of humor appreciated in the interviews? if so, to what extent? because, often times I joke around with my co-workers and it keeps the situation lively and easy to work with and I hope to feel the same way when I am being interviewed into a new team.
8. If you have a lot of moving around on your profile, (switching companies every two years or so) how does that affect in the eyes of a recruiter? does it show that he can handle mutiple projects with wide range of experience or does it hurt?
I know that's a lot of questions but I thought you could have some ideas on what candidates wonder about? and more ideas to make thoughtful videos and support growing and hopeful job seekers! Once again, Thank you so much! I wish I could connect with you in my LinkedIn network. Thanks!
My linkedin profile: www.linkedin.com/in/nalamraviteja/ (If you ever wish to connect with a prospective candidate ;) )