Note: this is an issue that only plagues engine models which tooling was created before the invention of BLI's smoke unit, aka before paragon 2...back then when most of their engines had plastic boilers. This includes the PRR I1sa, NYC J1, PRR T1, Reading T1, N&W, UP MT73, PRR M1, and others. Note that certain engines like the ATSF 4-8-4 partially combated this issue by using brass smoke stacks, on a plastic body. This greatly helped in reducing warping, but the smokebox was still susceptible.
@@gonebamboo4116 they have plastic boilers and the smoke unit inside is much lighter than a lead weight which the pre-paragon2 engines had. so...no not really.
I recently bought a used Paragon 2 J1d from a train show. I’m glad I watched this or else I might of used the smoke unit without noticing and would end up with a melting model.
Great criticism video! I agree with you. For plastic shell engines like the T1, J1, and I1sa, they continually cause melting problems. Or as I like to call it, "boiler melting syndrome". Hence, every TCS job has me gut them out, and the overall reliability of the model goes up as a result.
Lol yup! When you do remove the electronics tho, I think you should also remove the smoke units at the same time and replace the space with a chunky weight, to make your engines run better. Otherwise youre just wasting the precious space inside the boiler!
My local hobby shop will fit them and put a speak up in the front. Makes the engine sound way more realistic. Definitely recommend and I’ll never go back to tender sound.
@@SRC_model_rail I would never put a speaker inside an engine as it just takes up valuable space which could be used for weight instead to make an engine pull more. The only time Id consider ever putting a speaker inside an engine would be if its already too heavy where additional weight would be unnecessary...and theres STILL spare space for a speaker. But Ive yet to find any engine like that.
I removed my smoke unit out of my ATSF 3751 and added additional weight into it and its a super, super, puller. I never wanted a smoke unit in my steam engines, because I want more operational pulling capacity than a smoke eye candy unit.
Yes! That is definitely the move. Im glad atleast for the ATSF 3751 class, BLI chose to implement diecast/brass smoke stack, so for those who DID choose to use the smoke feature, their boilers didnt start melting. They should have done the same on other similar plastic models such as the PRR I1sa and M1a/b when adding smoke units to them.
While I haven’t had engines melt from a smoke unit, I’ve definitely had smoke fluid ruin the boiler PCBs (mostly MTH) from the smaller wicks not soaking the recommended amount of fluid. It’s a shame smoke units can cause these problems since it can be a really cool feature! I guess BLI and MTH wanna throw ‘em in just for the sake of a gimmick.
Yea, I dont mind them installing smoke units into engines, as long as it doesnt affect the rest of the engine. Shorting PCBs...leaking smoke units...melting boilers is unacceptable. Cheers!
I dont think theyre feasible. If not PERFECTLY sealed, water corrodes and rusts brass and metal. More importantly it can short and destroy your decoders. Water also will mold inside if you dont run it 100% dry each time youre finished running the loco. Lastly water is far less dense than smoke, meaning the water smoke unit is much larger in size than your normal smoke unit. (hornby demonstrated it inside a giant 4-8-2).
I'd been telling people for years about bli smoke units flaws .. it leaks between the circuit board and fluid bowl .....when they leak the smoke inside the boiler shells and the smoke residue sits on the engine board and cause decoders to blow out......I'd went threw 4 PRRQ2 4 PRR T1 3 PRR S2 ....4 AC6000 locos all do that issues I'm talking about .....ps my T1 shell melted to ..they sent me a new one. ..I cove that inside section with epoxy to keep it from melting .
wow that is very unlucky, Ive never had smoke fluid cause shorts since the mineral oil it consists of shouldnt be electrically conductive. Also I noticed that fluids leak out way more if you store the engine back in its box without fully running the smoke fluid dry/empty.
@@trainman440 well when smoke units box leaks smoke....leaves oil residue and it lays on the engine board it will short out and fry the decoder......when you run smoke unit while running your trains it leaves oily residue on the track causing the train not getting traction or not making contact on the track . loss signal....
@@joepinto509 precisely. Smoke oil is an insulator and NOT and conductor. When its on the tracks it prevents electricity from going from the rail to the wheels. So by that logic, having it on circuit boards shouldnt do any harm as its not conducting any electricity.
I had a Paragon2 PRR T1. It ran well, but then I noticed I heard a squeaking noise coming from the smoke unit. I tried turning it off but it kept turning on. It never bothered me until I started doing some slow crawling on the engine. My T1 started to "skip" when doing slow crawls every time I heard the squeaking noise from the smoke unit. I got curious and did something crazy which was unplugging the smoke unit from the PCB board inside the locomotive. Then for some strange bizarre reason, the T1 started running flawlessly, that it can rival the performance of a brass engine with it comes to slow crawling. I love BLI engines, but I never cared for their smoke unit. It's messy and it leaves a nasty residue on the engine and has devasting consequences if it is not properly adjusted.
thats interesting, sounds like a short or something of sorts somehow putting a load on the motor. Glad to hear unplugging it fixes it! Thanks for sharing :)
I had a BLI BNSF ES44AC that had a smoke unit and the shell was made all out of plastic the engine even when I had the smoke unit set to off the heating part still would warm up and get very hot to the point where it melted the area that the smoke unit was at.
thats weird, the heating element should be off when you turn the smoke switch manually to OFF. If its not doing that then you might have a miswired engine.
@@trainman440 Yeah I had the switch behind the smoke unit turned OFF when it happened due to the smoke smelling terrible. But I am getting another ES44ac From Broadway and hopefully this one doesn't have that problem so I am just going to keep an eye on it when it returns.
I will state this time and time again, until BLI Fixes the Decoders and Smoke units, I ain't purchasing a single model from them ever again. I'll stick with my brass.
lol fair enough, for some models though, BLI is still cheaper. Notably the PRR K4s...I paid $130 each for mine and theyre much more detailed (or cheaper) than the brass selection.
Ya lately bl par3 engine ingot are starting with problems.won’t take a reset so I’m sending it back probably board gone .it just takes off full power but nothing happens in reverse
thats a common problem with blis own decoders...I had a similar issue, and turn out it came from trying to use programming via program track. BLI decoders NEED to be programmed using program on the main. if you dont itll screw up all the CVs and go insane. Try factory resetting using programming on the main and avoid using the program track. Good luck!
Hello, BLI's website indicates the S3 having a diecast body, therefore it's not plastic and wont melt. Similar to the K4s in the video though, it still could benefit in being a better puller if you were to remove the smoke unit and replace it with more weight.
So I’m planing to buy a BLI NW Class A and Y6A/Y6b….but every time I do some research I hear so many bad and good things about BLI. As I am European, I can’t just send them back in case there is a problem. Costums etc are a big problem. So is it safe to buy these models? They had been released before already
I just got a GN S-2.. it's supposedly 1lb 10 ounces with tender.. and it doesn't wanna pull crap even with traction tires. It has smoke. I'm thinking about trying to take the springs off the trucks to see if that would help. My cheap Bachmann Overland pulls way more. That's a shame. A $100 Bachmann vs a $800 BLI. Like wtf
That's unfortunate to hear man. Yea it sounds like it might have some suspension issue, where not all drivers have equal weight distribution on the track. Check to see if the engine is balance. if you put a pencil between the center two drivers and the rails the engine should balance on it like a see-saw. The one thing I will say is, price DOES NOT correlate to pulling power. A $3000 brass loco will not necessarily pull more than a $10 trainset engine. I wouldn't make that sort of assumption. Bachmann recently has been well known for making great pullers that dont use traction tires, all at an affordable price. Good luck!
Thanks for the advice! I'm actually new to the hobby. I dabbled a little as a child (30 years ago), but nothing serious. Now I'm trying to build a full on multi-track layout. I did pick up a SD-90 MAC from Athearn, and that thing is A BEAST! It's pulled everything I've thrown at it with zero problem!
@@jasonworden8209 aye! welcome back to the hobby man, its always good to see more people join :) dont let the toxicity and stuff get in the way, I feel like there's more and more of that lately in the hobby. Do what you want and let others do what they want. Glad youre enjoying the SD90 MAC Ive heard good things about them! Yea please feel free to message me (either YT comment or Instagram DM preferred) if you got further questions :) Those GN S2s might not be the best pullers but boy are they pretty!
"Doctor Hobby" youtuber, has had a bunch of BLI smoke unit issues. I do have some BLI locos, but don't plan to use smoke units, becuase of mess on layout
yep, he seems to have a lot of trouble with them, yet persists to try and get all his engines smoking. If I were him I would just give up and enjoy the hobby with out it. Saves a lot of time money and frustration on his part.
I pre ordered the bli S1 with a smoke unit but the s1 is a big engine so I think it should be fine for me. I do admit I got a little scared clicking on the video, but I also remembered that S1 is a big locomotive
The S1 being brass shouldnt melt. And yea its big enough where youre not losing all that much out on weight. This was mostly directed to those original paragon models which were made of plastic.
Its a shame since the rest of the T1 engine is diecast. Everything including and below the running boards, the cab, etc. is all diecast. Just chose to make the boiler itself plastic.
too bad I wish I knew about this before my PRR T1 melted. It's already melted pretty bad and it's quite hard for me to get the spare part for it.. and quite expensive too since I live in Indonesia
This is a novel idea in theory but nearly impossible to apply in practice. we dont use water cause it can be detrimental to the internals...it can short circuit electronics if it leaks even at all (like if u store the engine horizontally in its box after a running session with water still inside) and it also corrodes many metals. Additionally, water vapor units would consume significantly more water than an oil smoke unit would consume oil, meaning youd be putting like 40 drops of smoke water fluid in to run for barely 5 minutes. Resulting in a MUCH larger smoke unit, which is very hard to fit into these tiny models.
@@TheTransportationFanfromCA This is a commentary about why specifically broadway limited (who only puts smoke units into HO engines) smoke units inside ho locomotives are sometimes poorly designed. It doesn't pertain G scale. Water vapour smoke might be more viable in G scale, if given that they are built to be waterproof. But I am no expert in G scale.
I'm planning on installing a Keepalive capacitor in my PRR T1 and in the process I'm going to ask if it's possible to have the Smoke unit Removed as well. I've never used it and the club I'm a part of, The Rockledge Model Railroad Museum, has a Strict No Smoke policy, and I'm fine by that but to be safe I'm going to remove the smoke unit seeing that They are known to Destroy BLI locomotives.
I would recommend simply turning smoke off by flicking the smoke ON/OFF switch at the bottom of the loco. If your engine is a paragon3 or newer you can simply add keep alive by purchasing one from BLI's online store, and plugging it into board inside the tender. You wont even have to take the engine apart. If you want to remove the smoke unit entirely from the engine, you can do so by taking the shell off the boiler, unplugging and removing the smoke unit, and reassembling, but that isnt really necessary.
What do you expect from a company that uses junk QSI decoders and ignores warranty a request for them? I have two engines that are now shelf queens waiting for new decoders to be installed by me. I already ripped their garbage out of them. Just add these fires waiting to happen to the list of their crap. When you see them at model railroad shows, they have one guy with a table showing their new engines on dead track pieces with no demonstrations and no obvious preparation for any useful customer service from them.
I have no issues with plastic engines, in fact they can be quite good, since its much easier to modify (drill cut etc) a plastic engine than a diecast engine. Just dont put something thats meant to heat up inside one.
@@Steamer96 Youre stripping your plastic engines? Have you had plastic engines that broke due to the boiler being plastic? Ive never had that happen unless you're dropping your engines on the floor.
@@trainman440 When I owned Rivarossi locos back in 2010 and the boilers would crack from the screws. If I recall it was because the parts were loose and causing mechanical problems.
@@grahampahl7100 i see, couldnt sneak past an expert :P Im a packaging engineer who apparently didnt pay enough attention to material science class in college
Ya forgot to say .I don’t have a program track setup .I always use the po on digtrax for bl tried holding the bottom down under tender like five times an powered off then on also tried cv-8 an still goes full bore forward. Idk I’ll send it in a see .
thats not what i was getting at. It doesnt matter if you have a program track or not, but how youre programming it. You MUST use programming on the main (POM). NOT PO, which is the normal programming mode.
true, however the default is set to very high. and each time you reset the decoder, and forget to change it, you risk melting again. Not to mention most BLI owners wont bother going in and changing that CV. It also doesnt negate the fundamental fact that putting a heating element inside a tube made of a thermoplastic material (which can melt when exposed to heat) which melting point is below the max operating temperature of said heating element, is a BAD idea.
I really want the BLI Commodore Vanderbilt that they are putting out later this year and I am going to be so sad if the reviews of that engine end up being the same criticisms that I keep hearing about BLI.
Eh, itll probably be fine being diecast and all. To me though it looks like they messed up the dimensions of that engine. the front nose is wayyy too slanted, and narrow. The side shrouding is far too thick and very noticeable (look at the piloy step/ladders at the front). Because its so thick they had the make the nose more narrow which makes the entire engine look strangely thin. Anyways, i personally wont be buying one esp with such a high price tag.
I don't know why these manufactures don't have a think tank/testing group before they put a locomotive out for the public to purchase. Not only is there the problems you showed in regards to heat damage, but for the most part BLI smoke does not compare to MTH, Roco and the like. If I would have purchased a BLI Blue Goose at that price I would have sent it back after seeing that pathetic smoke......
BLI is still a relatively small company, Im not sure if they have the funds to do testing as extensive testing such as that. Although I agree more testing should have been done before manufacturing.
@@trainman440 I understand and agree in part with what you are saying, however, for their own growth and reputation they should realize that they can't ask $900 for an upscale model and have it perform that way, especially when a $500-$600 locomotive from another manufacture blows it away. I would have told them just to scrap the smoke feature and lower the price a little bit until they get it right....
@@roundsaturn31 I agree lol its insane such an expensive model could have so many quality control problems. say what you want about mth being overpriced and stuff but atleast they have a better track record for producing reliable stuff. (their old stuff was bad but it got only better and better)
Tell & Send This Message To Trainworld & TrainLand Inc. Cause All Trains Today Have Bad Design Made In China. They Mix The Die-Cast & Plastic Together Witch Is Really Bad Of All Brands Of Model Trains That Money Is A Waste For U.S & Not Fair. You Have A Right Video To Say Things About The Smoke-Units, Models & More. You Video Is Good To Talk About. Good Job 👏
Ya I agree Broadway came Out with hippo they should of did a all cast body an frame .I’m sure in next ur or two they’ll be a hippo brass hybrid like there tribune .love the 2-10-0 favorite engine but after working on the layout I was just about to throw one for the first time ever .engine really only ran 20’times around the layout maybe little more but sat there a lot to . Well par 3 only have two of them one hippo an one 2-8-2 . But tried linking three par 2 an one 3 an it does not work motors are different an had nothing but problems. So ended up taking the 2-10-0 par3 by itself on different main while the other three were running fine with about 30 cars .so started the par3 an seamed like it wanted to go but was sort of lazy !!weird .also seamed jerky.flipped reverse an backed up fine for 20’ no cars .then flipped forward an did same thing an all of a sudden is started shorting out .shut power off an on a straight no switch’s an the thing took off at 90mph .grabbed it an turned off power .the dial was off!! Powered up system dial off an engine takes off again so was just about to {^{^{€{~~
BLI wont ever do a brass hybrid hippo. They never retool models with new tooling. Plastic engines are fine as long as you dont remove the weight from inside and swap it for a smoke unit! Cheers
I agree, thankfully theres a hardwired switch on the engines to turn off the smoke lol. I couldnt imagine breathing in the smoke has any health benefits, but rather only drawbacks. glad to hear you found a way to enjoy this hobby without hurting your health!
good criticism video, but I feel it's a little wrong to buy a used loco and be mad at the fact that the original owner used a feature that they bought it for. It's unfair to say that it was abused when it was used for its intended purpose after the time of purchase.
I mustve not been clear in the video. Im NOT mad at the original user. Im disappointed at BLI adding smoke units into engines which werent designed with smoke units in mind, aka made the smoke funnels out of plastic. Cheers!
@@trainman440 precisely, last Christmas in 2021 I got a pennsy decapod and it melted after 5 min of running. I have 4 good bli steamers but have sworn off buying any more bli since then
@@scoobs2511 Eh, BLI is still fine, Id just avoid using smoke on the plastic engines. wouldnt swear off buying from them, i think thats a bit of an extreme reaction.
Paragon 2 smoke units are not good at this point, I’ve had many issues with them and i have no issues with melting, just the operation. Paragon 3 and Paragon 4 smoke units are much better then the paragon 2 ones.
Paragon2 smoke units arent nearly as powerful. it seems that after too many complaints of bli smoke units being not powerful enough, bli turned up the power on their p3 and p4 smoke units. as a result they started melting boilers more.
@@trainman440 The only issue I see with generators overheating is the smoke generator probably heat level got set too high as a mistake, its easily programmable to make it cooler and ive gotten most new locos from dealers so ive been ok
Gutting it and replacing it with lead weight is probably the best way to go about it. or simply save yourself some time and money and simply get a PCM/paragon version, which already has all that from the factory. plus easier wiring.
This is a novel idea in theory but nearly impossible to apply in practice. we dont use water cause it can be detrimental to the internals...it can short circuit electronics if it leaks even at all (like if u store the engine horizontally in its box after a running session with water still inside) and it also corrodes many metals. Additionally, water vapor units would consume significantly more water than an oil smoke unit would consume oil, meaning youd be putting like 40 drops of smoke water fluid in to run for barely 5 minutes. Resulting in a MUCH larger smoke unit, which is very hard to fit into these tiny models.
Note: this is an issue that only plagues engine models which tooling was created before the invention of BLI's smoke unit, aka before paragon 2...back then when most of their engines had plastic boilers. This includes the PRR I1sa, NYC J1, PRR T1, Reading T1, N&W, UP MT73, PRR M1, and others. Note that certain engines like the ATSF 4-8-4 partially combated this issue by using brass smoke stacks, on a plastic body. This greatly helped in reducing warping, but the smokebox was still susceptible.
So you're saying my paragon 4 hippo's are okay?
[not before paragon 2, ]
@@gonebamboo4116 they have plastic boilers and the smoke unit inside is much lighter than a lead weight which the pre-paragon2 engines had. so...no not really.
I recently bought a used Paragon 2 J1d from a train show. I’m glad I watched this or else I might of used the smoke unit without noticing and would end up with a melting model.
Glad I could help someone!
Great criticism video! I agree with you. For plastic shell engines like the T1, J1, and I1sa, they continually cause melting problems. Or as I like to call it, "boiler melting syndrome". Hence, every TCS job has me gut them out, and the overall reliability of the model goes up as a result.
Lol yup! When you do remove the electronics tho, I think you should also remove the smoke units at the same time and replace the space with a chunky weight, to make your engines run better. Otherwise youre just wasting the precious space inside the boiler!
My local hobby shop will fit them and put a speak up in the front. Makes the engine sound way more realistic. Definitely recommend and I’ll never go back to tender sound.
@@SRC_model_rail I would never put a speaker inside an engine as it just takes up valuable space which could be used for weight instead to make an engine pull more. The only time Id consider ever putting a speaker inside an engine would be if its already too heavy where additional weight would be unnecessary...and theres STILL spare space for a speaker. But Ive yet to find any engine like that.
I removed my smoke unit out of my ATSF 3751 and added additional weight into it and its a super, super, puller. I never wanted a smoke unit in my steam engines, because I want more operational pulling capacity than a smoke eye candy unit.
Yes! That is definitely the move. Im glad atleast for the ATSF 3751 class, BLI chose to implement diecast/brass smoke stack, so for those who DID choose to use the smoke feature, their boilers didnt start melting. They should have done the same on other similar plastic models such as the PRR I1sa and M1a/b when adding smoke units to them.
The best dynamic smoke unit is the Marklin/trix… they never rushed to use this type if unit so the design is extremely thought out
mth's smoke units are arguably also very very solid!
@@trainman440 they are very good, my one issue is the noise they make
While I haven’t had engines melt from a smoke unit, I’ve definitely had smoke fluid ruin the boiler PCBs (mostly MTH) from the smaller wicks not soaking the recommended amount of fluid. It’s a shame smoke units can cause these problems since it can be a really cool feature! I guess BLI and MTH wanna throw ‘em in just for the sake of a gimmick.
Yea, I dont mind them installing smoke units into engines, as long as it doesnt affect the rest of the engine. Shorting PCBs...leaking smoke units...melting boilers is unacceptable. Cheers!
What about replacing the smoke unit with a water smoke one like the hornby steam generator locos use where it doesn't heat up.
I dont think theyre feasible. If not PERFECTLY sealed, water corrodes and rusts brass and metal. More importantly it can short and destroy your decoders. Water also will mold inside if you dont run it 100% dry each time youre finished running the loco. Lastly water is far less dense than smoke, meaning the water smoke unit is much larger in size than your normal smoke unit. (hornby demonstrated it inside a giant 4-8-2).
I'd been telling people for years about bli smoke units flaws .. it leaks between the circuit board and fluid bowl .....when they leak the smoke inside the boiler shells and the smoke residue sits on the engine board and cause decoders to blow out......I'd went threw 4 PRRQ2 4 PRR T1 3 PRR S2 ....4 AC6000 locos all do that issues I'm talking about .....ps my T1 shell melted to ..they sent me a new one. ..I cove that inside section with epoxy to keep it from melting .
wow that is very unlucky, Ive never had smoke fluid cause shorts since the mineral oil it consists of shouldnt be electrically conductive. Also I noticed that fluids leak out way more if you store the engine back in its box without fully running the smoke fluid dry/empty.
@@trainman440 well when smoke units box leaks smoke....leaves oil residue and it lays on the engine board it will short out and fry the decoder......when you run smoke unit while running your trains it leaves oily residue on the track causing the train not getting traction or not making contact on the track . loss signal....
@@joepinto509 precisely. Smoke oil is an insulator and NOT and conductor. When its on the tracks it prevents electricity from going from the rail to the wheels. So by that logic, having it on circuit boards shouldnt do any harm as its not conducting any electricity.
I have a PRR T1 from BLI with a smoke unit. Ever since the day I got it I’ve never used the smoke unit, the kill switch is set to off and it stays off
yea...I do the same. just unfortunate that the smoke unit takes up space which could have been weight. eventually gonna rip them all out.
@@trainman440good luck
@@southernpennsyrailfan8579 Ive already done a few! not hard at all
I had a Paragon2 PRR T1. It ran well, but then I noticed I heard a squeaking noise coming from the smoke unit. I tried turning it off but it kept turning on. It never bothered me until I started doing some slow crawling on the engine. My T1 started to "skip" when doing slow crawls every time I heard the squeaking noise from the smoke unit. I got curious and did something crazy which was unplugging the smoke unit from the PCB board inside the locomotive. Then for some strange bizarre reason, the T1 started running flawlessly, that it can rival the performance of a brass engine with it comes to slow crawling. I love BLI engines, but I never cared for their smoke unit. It's messy and it leaves a nasty residue on the engine and has devasting consequences if it is not properly adjusted.
thats interesting, sounds like a short or something of sorts somehow putting a load on the motor. Glad to hear unplugging it fixes it! Thanks for sharing :)
I had a BLI BNSF ES44AC that had a smoke unit and the shell was made all out of plastic the engine even when I had the smoke unit set to off the heating part still would warm up and get very hot to the point where it melted the area that the smoke unit was at.
thats weird, the heating element should be off when you turn the smoke switch manually to OFF. If its not doing that then you might have a miswired engine.
@@trainman440 Yeah I had the switch behind the smoke unit turned OFF when it happened due to the smoke smelling terrible. But I am getting another ES44ac From Broadway and hopefully this one doesn't have that problem so I am just going to keep an eye on it when it returns.
I will state this time and time again, until BLI Fixes the Decoders and Smoke units, I ain't purchasing a single model from them ever again. I'll stick with my brass.
lol fair enough, for some models though, BLI is still cheaper. Notably the PRR K4s...I paid $130 each for mine and theyre much more detailed (or cheaper) than the brass selection.
My y6b had no smoke loved it but the valve gear was misaligned somehow and it destroyed itself under warranty tho 😂
Have fun paying $10,000
Ya lately bl par3 engine ingot are starting with problems.won’t take a reset so I’m sending it back probably board gone .it just takes off full power but nothing happens in reverse
thats a common problem with blis own decoders...I had a similar issue, and turn out it came from trying to use programming via program track. BLI decoders NEED to be programmed using program on the main. if you dont itll screw up all the CVs and go insane. Try factory resetting using programming on the main and avoid using the program track. Good luck!
Do their S3 Northerns fall into this category?
Hello, BLI's website indicates the S3 having a diecast body, therefore it's not plastic and wont melt. Similar to the K4s in the video though, it still could benefit in being a better puller if you were to remove the smoke unit and replace it with more weight.
@@trainman440 Common sense should have told me to check their website to begin with...
@@SOU6900 lol no worries i got u.
Well said, the best thing to do with Bli smoke units is to REMOVE them!!!!
yessir!
So I’m planing to buy a BLI NW Class A and Y6A/Y6b….but every time I do some research I hear so many bad and good things about BLI.
As I am European, I can’t just send them back in case there is a problem. Costums etc are a big problem.
So is it safe to buy these models? They had been released before already
I just got a GN S-2.. it's supposedly 1lb 10 ounces with tender.. and it doesn't wanna pull crap even with traction tires. It has smoke. I'm thinking about trying to take the springs off the trucks to see if that would help. My cheap Bachmann Overland pulls way more. That's a shame. A $100 Bachmann vs a $800 BLI. Like wtf
That's unfortunate to hear man. Yea it sounds like it might have some suspension issue, where not all drivers have equal weight distribution on the track. Check to see if the engine is balance. if you put a pencil between the center two drivers and the rails the engine should balance on it like a see-saw.
The one thing I will say is, price DOES NOT correlate to pulling power. A $3000 brass loco will not necessarily pull more than a $10 trainset engine. I wouldn't make that sort of assumption. Bachmann recently has been well known for making great pullers that dont use traction tires, all at an affordable price. Good luck!
Thanks for the advice! I'm actually new to the hobby. I dabbled a little as a child (30 years ago), but nothing serious. Now I'm trying to build a full on multi-track layout. I did pick up a SD-90 MAC from Athearn, and that thing is A BEAST! It's pulled everything I've thrown at it with zero problem!
@@jasonworden8209 aye! welcome back to the hobby man, its always good to see more people join :) dont let the toxicity and stuff get in the way, I feel like there's more and more of that lately in the hobby. Do what you want and let others do what they want. Glad youre enjoying the SD90 MAC Ive heard good things about them! Yea please feel free to message me (either YT comment or Instagram DM preferred) if you got further questions :) Those GN S2s might not be the best pullers but boy are they pretty!
Cool man I appreciate the support! Subscribing!
"Doctor Hobby" youtuber, has had a bunch of BLI smoke unit issues.
I do have some BLI locos, but don't plan to use smoke units, becuase of mess on layout
yep, he seems to have a lot of trouble with them, yet persists to try and get all his engines smoking. If I were him I would just give up and enjoy the hobby with out it. Saves a lot of time money and frustration on his part.
I pre ordered the bli S1 with a smoke unit but the s1 is a big engine so I think it should be fine for me. I do admit I got a little scared clicking on the video, but I also remembered that S1 is a big locomotive
The S1 being brass shouldnt melt. And yea its big enough where youre not losing all that much out on weight. This was mostly directed to those original paragon models which were made of plastic.
Blue TI meltdown is from @doctorhobby . He has a whole series detailing BLI smoke unit pain.
indeed! he made a good video
I just don't buy the plastic ones. Or if I do, such as the PRR T1, I won't use the smoke
Its a shame since the rest of the T1 engine is diecast. Everything including and below the running boards, the cab, etc. is all diecast. Just chose to make the boiler itself plastic.
too bad I wish I knew about this before my PRR T1 melted. It's already melted pretty bad and it's quite hard for me to get the spare part for it.. and quite expensive too since I live in Indonesia
yea...sorry to hear man :/
A big flaw with the current smoke units is that it leaks everywhere and make your track dirty and makes you slip when pulling big trains
yes lol, its really freaking annoying, having to clean oily smoke fluid off your engines. Good point, I shoulda brought that up during my improv rant!
Maybe they should use one of those thing were you put water in it and it blows smoke and history it looks more realistic a channel Mike Ramsey did it.
This is a novel idea in theory but nearly impossible to apply in practice. we dont use water cause it can be detrimental to the internals...it can short circuit electronics if it leaks even at all (like if u store the engine horizontally in its box after a running session with water still inside) and it also corrodes many metals. Additionally, water vapor units would consume significantly more water than an oil smoke unit would consume oil, meaning youd be putting like 40 drops of smoke water fluid in to run for barely 5 minutes. Resulting in a MUCH larger smoke unit, which is very hard to fit into these tiny models.
What about g scale
@@TheTransportationFanfromCA This is a commentary about why specifically broadway limited (who only puts smoke units into HO engines) smoke units inside ho locomotives are sometimes poorly designed. It doesn't pertain G scale. Water vapour smoke might be more viable in G scale, if given that they are built to be waterproof. But I am no expert in G scale.
Ok thanks ..not sure how to that but I’ll look into it an ask few Friends how to do thanks !.
I'm planning on installing a Keepalive capacitor in my PRR T1 and in the process I'm going to ask if it's possible to have the Smoke unit Removed as well. I've never used it and the club I'm a part of, The Rockledge Model Railroad Museum, has a Strict No Smoke policy, and I'm fine by that but to be safe I'm going to remove the smoke unit seeing that They are known to Destroy BLI locomotives.
I would recommend simply turning smoke off by flicking the smoke ON/OFF switch at the bottom of the loco. If your engine is a paragon3 or newer you can simply add keep alive by purchasing one from BLI's online store, and plugging it into board inside the tender. You wont even have to take the engine apart. If you want to remove the smoke unit entirely from the engine, you can do so by taking the shell off the boiler, unplugging and removing the smoke unit, and reassembling, but that isnt really necessary.
@@trainman440 thanks
What do you expect from a company that uses junk QSI decoders and ignores warranty a request for them? I have two engines that are now shelf queens waiting for new decoders to be installed by me. I already ripped their garbage out of them. Just add these fires waiting to happen to the list of their crap. When you see them at model railroad shows, they have one guy with a table showing their new engines on dead track pieces with no demonstrations and no obvious preparation for any useful customer service from them.
Just another valid reason to hate plastic model steam locomotives.
I have no issues with plastic engines, in fact they can be quite good, since its much easier to modify (drill cut etc) a plastic engine than a diecast engine. Just dont put something thats meant to heat up inside one.
@@trainman440 I've always despised plastic, it strips and breaks way too easy.
@@Steamer96 Youre stripping your plastic engines? Have you had plastic engines that broke due to the boiler being plastic? Ive never had that happen unless you're dropping your engines on the floor.
@@trainman440 When I owned Rivarossi locos back in 2010 and the boilers would crack from the screws. If I recall it was because the parts were loose and causing mechanical problems.
@@Steamer96 Huh, well blis plastic boilers arent directly screwed on, there's metal inserts so the boiler shouldnt crack regardless.
ABS is not a thermoset plastic. your second comment of it being a thermoplastic is correct.
yea I realized afterwards I said the wrong term :/ looks like someone was paying attention :)
@trainman440 I'm a qualified plastics engineer so picked up on it straight away lol
@@grahampahl7100 i see, couldnt sneak past an expert :P Im a packaging engineer who apparently didnt pay enough attention to material science class in college
Ya forgot to say .I don’t have a program track setup .I always use the po on digtrax for bl tried holding the bottom down under tender like five times an powered off then on also tried cv-8 an still goes full bore forward. Idk I’ll send it in a see .
thats not what i was getting at. It doesnt matter if you have a program track or not, but how youre programming it. You MUST use programming on the main (POM). NOT PO, which is the normal programming mode.
Just go in and change the CV to reduce the voltage of the smoke unit and prevent any plastic melting.
true, however the default is set to very high. and each time you reset the decoder, and forget to change it, you risk melting again. Not to mention most BLI owners wont bother going in and changing that CV. It also doesnt negate the fundamental fact that putting a heating element inside a tube made of a thermoplastic material (which can melt when exposed to heat) which melting point is below the max operating temperature of said heating element, is a BAD idea.
I pulled the smoke unit out of my Santa Fe 3751 because it burnt out I ended up installing a suethe smoke unit in its place
Nice, solid choice
I really want the BLI Commodore Vanderbilt that they are putting out later this year and I am going to be so sad if the reviews of that engine end up being the same criticisms that I keep hearing about BLI.
Eh, itll probably be fine being diecast and all. To me though it looks like they messed up the dimensions of that engine. the front nose is wayyy too slanted, and narrow. The side shrouding is far too thick and very noticeable (look at the piloy step/ladders at the front). Because its so thick they had the make the nose more narrow which makes the entire engine look strangely thin. Anyways, i personally wont be buying one esp with such a high price tag.
I don't know why these manufactures don't have a think tank/testing group before they put a locomotive out for the public to purchase. Not only is there the problems you showed in regards to heat damage, but for the most part BLI smoke does not compare to MTH, Roco and the like. If I would have purchased a BLI Blue Goose at that price I would have sent it back after seeing that pathetic smoke......
BLI is still a relatively small company, Im not sure if they have the funds to do testing as extensive testing such as that. Although I agree more testing should have been done before manufacturing.
@@trainman440 I understand and agree in part with what you are saying, however, for their own growth and reputation they should realize that they can't ask $900 for an upscale model and have it perform that way, especially when a $500-$600 locomotive from another manufacture blows it away. I would have told them just to scrap the smoke feature and lower the price a little bit until they get it right....
@@roundsaturn31 I agree lol its insane such an expensive model could have so many quality control problems. say what you want about mth being overpriced and stuff but atleast they have a better track record for producing reliable stuff. (their old stuff was bad but it got only better and better)
Tell & Send This Message To Trainworld & TrainLand Inc. Cause All Trains Today Have Bad Design Made In China. They Mix The Die-Cast & Plastic Together Witch Is Really Bad Of All Brands Of Model Trains That Money Is A Waste For U.S & Not Fair. You Have A Right Video To Say Things About The Smoke-Units, Models & More. You Video Is Good To Talk About. Good Job 👏
thanks! Im sure BLI has heard of many people who dislike their smoke.
@@trainman440 Yes, They Should!
Ya I agree Broadway came
Out with hippo they should of did a all cast body an frame .I’m sure in next ur or two they’ll be a hippo brass hybrid like there tribune .love the 2-10-0 favorite engine but after working on the layout I was just about to throw one for the first time ever .engine really only ran 20’times around the layout maybe little more but sat there a lot to . Well par 3 only have two of them one hippo an one 2-8-2 . But tried linking three par 2 an one 3 an it does not work motors are different an had nothing but problems. So ended up taking the 2-10-0 par3 by itself on different main while the other three were running fine with about 30 cars .so started the par3 an seamed like it wanted to go but was sort of lazy !!weird .also seamed jerky.flipped reverse an backed up fine for 20’ no cars .then flipped forward an did same thing an all of a sudden is started shorting out .shut power off an on a straight no switch’s an the thing took off at 90mph .grabbed it an turned off power .the dial was off!! Powered up system dial off an engine takes off again so was just about to {^{^{€{~~
BLI wont ever do a brass hybrid hippo. They never retool models with new tooling. Plastic engines are fine as long as you dont remove the weight from inside and swap it for a smoke unit! Cheers
Im just glad im able to turn off the smoke units. My asthma doesn't handle the smoke well. Thats the only reason I dont like them.
I agree, thankfully theres a hardwired switch on the engines to turn off the smoke lol. I couldnt imagine breathing in the smoke has any health benefits, but rather only drawbacks. glad to hear you found a way to enjoy this hobby without hurting your health!
good criticism video, but I feel it's a little wrong to buy a used loco and be mad at the fact that the original owner used a feature that they bought it for. It's unfair to say that it was abused when it was used for its intended purpose after the time of purchase.
I mustve not been clear in the video. Im NOT mad at the original user. Im disappointed at BLI adding smoke units into engines which werent designed with smoke units in mind, aka made the smoke funnels out of plastic. Cheers!
That's a class a I have a y6 and its all metal so must be a newer tooling with smoke in mind
gotcha, so the class A is plastic but y6 is diecast. thanks!
@@trainman440 precisely, last Christmas in 2021 I got a pennsy decapod and it melted after 5 min of running. I have 4 good bli steamers but have sworn off buying any more bli since then
@@scoobs2511
Did BLI provide any service or warranty repair?
@@scoobs2511 Eh, BLI is still fine, Id just avoid using smoke on the plastic engines. wouldnt swear off buying from them, i think thats a bit of an extreme reaction.
@@gonebamboo4116 I didn’t even try because I’ve had terrible experience w their customer service in the past
Paragon 2 smoke units are not good at this point, I’ve had many issues with them and i have no issues with melting, just the operation. Paragon 3 and Paragon 4 smoke units are much better then the paragon 2 ones.
Paragon2 smoke units arent nearly as powerful. it seems that after too many complaints of bli smoke units being not powerful enough, bli turned up the power on their p3 and p4 smoke units. as a result they started melting boilers more.
@@trainman440 The only issue I see with generators overheating is the smoke generator probably heat level got set too high as a mistake, its easily programmable to make it cooler and ive gotten most new locos from dealers so ive been ok
I would gut it.
Gutting it and replacing it with lead weight is probably the best way to go about it. or simply save yourself some time and money and simply get a PCM/paragon version, which already has all that from the factory. plus easier wiring.
They should go to water vaper or not put tjem in
This is a novel idea in theory but nearly impossible to apply in practice. we dont use water cause it can be detrimental to the internals...it can short circuit electronics if it leaks even at all (like if u store the engine horizontally in its box after a running session with water still inside) and it also corrodes many metals. Additionally, water vapor units would consume significantly more water than an oil smoke unit would consume oil, meaning youd be putting like 40 drops of smoke water fluid in to run for barely 5 minutes. Resulting in a MUCH larger smoke unit, which is very hard to fit into these tiny models.
Twenty eight point 35 grams to the ounce
Bird Shot.
I just turn the smoke unit off.