*Ray's Top Tips* Off grid Vehicle power supply kits are not new, I engineered them first in military vehicles fitted with RADAR in the late 1960’s. Prior to this date, inefficient rotary converters were used to produce a 230 V supply. 24 V solid-state inverters were followed by 12 V units and are reliable and have efficiencies above 80%. Off-Grid, means having your own independent 230 V AC power supply. You can use an inverter based kit to power domestic 230V equipment, including ebike chargers and other small electrical appliances. My tips for getting going with an inverter outfit that will get you ‘Off Grid’. Inverters ● Choose the right size of the inverter, 300W charges any ebike, 1000W drives most small appliances including fridges. ● It's the total power draw you need to consider, look on the appliance label, fridges run at 45-120W but take 700W+ starting. ● Inverters work from 11.5 to 14.5V DC. Switch on without a load, they take 10W, loaded, a 1000W unit takes around 1200W . ● Inverters are fused inside or out, most use auto blade fuses. Most inverters shut down at around 11.5V to protect the battery. ● Inverters driven directly from the vehicles battery must be limited to 300W they can draw more than 30 Amps. Circuitry ● System 1, vehicle battery - 30A fuse - 300W inverter, powerful ebike charger, much faster charge, more efficient, run engine! ● System 2, adds LA leisure battery, (140Ah minimum), small battery and small charger, or big battery and powerful charger. ● System 3, adds solar panels, minimum 250W, more the better, electricity downloaded is free and batteries last longer! ● Keep fuses small and cables large, systems 2 and 3 use Schottky diodes, use 1 or 2 x 40V 50A devices; General details. ● Vehicles with ‘smart alternators’ need a battery to battery charging device, most new campervans have basic alternators. ● Buy a small plug in voltmeter or state of battery indicator (lighter socket) to be aware of when you might need to charge up. ● 1000W inverters will charge several ebikes at the same time, small ebike chargers might be only 50% efficient, large, 90% + ! ● Lead acid batteries are heavy and need to be secured and vented. 12V Li-ion leisure types are not cost effective options now. ● Ensure all connections are good, supply cables are protected, battery always secured upright and buffer charged monthly. Technical ● The 230V wired output should comply with current regulations, always use a latching Residual Current Device to BS 7071. ● ‘Sealed batteries’ may need to be vented as they can produce small amounts of hydrogen (explosive gas) and in rare cases a poisonous gas, Hydrogen disulphide (H2S2).
Seriously bad advice, inadequate cable sizes and serous lack of correct size fuses. You cannot use speaker wire to connect those batteries. Take this video down!!
79 strand wire is 2.5mm it should handle 20A so if fitted with 10A fuse its not a problem, thing get bad when you watch this video and rig up your battery with some B&Q flimsy speaker wire and dont fit a fuse. should have advised people to use automotive wire and explained fusing and wire size.
Old geezer is stupid. EBike batteries are not 230v. Mine is 60v. It uses a 230vac charger if you are in olde England. 110vac is the charger voltage in USA. It is NOT the batteries voltage.
Yeah, I think he's just a diy hack, not really an engineer. There are several dubious things he says. Speaker wire? Really? "A bigger charger will be better, how much, we don't know." C'mon, if you were really an engineer you'd know.
Good grief. This is a prime example of why learning about electric systems on TH-cam from MTB enthusiasts is a terrible idea. So many dangerous faults and omissions in this.
Agreed. Never once mentioned need for pure sine wave inverter and the fact you can eliminate the battery and go PV Direct to bike battery using a Elejoy 400 step up type boost MPPT controller with a bike battery plug wired into the output end. My 400w mono panel goes direct to my 60v sur ron battery through the boost controller set to 66v cut off. This old geezer missed a lot of points. Sounds like he would screw up an expensive battery.
A question for you next video! After so many people have commented that this video is Poor advice, dangerous and should be taken down. Why have You have not done so? If somebody attempts to copy this set up and has an accident or a fire you’ve got to be held responsible! The video comes across and is in the format of how to! As a very minimum The video should start and end and have reference to a disclaimer to say that this is just personal ideas and based on principle do not copy this! A Channel your size its following the amount of people that will watch this surely you have a responsibility and somewhat a duty of care too ?
Legally speaking, I don't think there's any duty of care, because there's no relationship between the EMBN and the viewer that would create such a duty. But I'm not a lawyer.
Please talk to a professional shop about setting this stuff up, Ray’s advice is a big worry. Do not connect two batteries together with speaker cable and some diodes ffs. His advice is very concerning and embn should not have put this video up. Ive worked in the RV market and everything said had me gasping wtf.
TO-220 diodes TOO with the centre leg cut off ffs, SPLIT RELAY, PROPER fusing and 318-A, UV stable cable ffs, hole through FLOOR to gas battery ffs, ;-[
10 Amps in front of a alternater that puts out around 100 amps? And speaker wire... stop. the wire need to be at least 16mm2 (5 awg) and if the cable is very long 25mm2 And most newer cars won't charge the battery fully. So you need a dc/DC charger
OMG no, no no that’s so dangerous that’s not the way to show amateurs how to set up Electrics particularly on a modern car I hope you’re well insured giving advice I’d like that
Stu Parry it just that if he’s got a car with an intelligent alternator charging system it will destroy the engine management system too totally ridiculous to show something like this in such a popular channel
Yes agreed, as a mechanic it's horrible to see all the bad advice online , all modern cars an Van's have more ecus than u can shake a stick at aswell as smart charging,
Hi there, appreciate the attention to detail! The video is only an overview to show the basics. However recently with smart alternators there is a problem, they do not work the same way as the old alternators. The reason for the change is that they are energy saving and load the battery on braking cycles etc. If you have a smart alternator or possibly a stop-start facility on your vehicle you will need a B-B charging unit. Please see Ray's tips above, where he has attempted to cover the project in more detail. Doubtless to say there will be more questions but please get involved its great to hear from you!
Please take this video down. This is not how to wire up a dual battery setup. He clearly doesn't know shit about 12v systems and how many amps a setup like this draws. And what is the point of a diode. It will still draw power from the start battery when the car is turned off. Witch was the whole point of a double battery system. That you still can start your car.. and why reccomend using speaker wire. And not the correct size cable that is for car use.. and you are missing fuses on the secondary battery there should be a fuses on every cable that connected to the plus side. But the plus site the cables a so small so they a probably going to melt before the battery explodes xD
Thought I would add an option if you have a hybrid you already have a giant battery. I use a 1000w inverter wired to the 12v battery. Keep the car in the on position and you have as much battery as you want if the hybrid runs low from charging the 12v the engine will start and charge it up automatically. The setup cost me 150usd. Go prius 😅 barely uses any fuel to charge an ebike.
Hey EMBN! At about 1:30 into the vid ray says "ebike batteries are 230 volts"! This is incorrect as most ebike batteries are 36 volts dc! The ebike battery chargers require 230 volts alternating current for the input power! Ride ride ride!
If you've got an electric hook up why would you charge a leisure battery to then charge the ebike battery when you can charge the ebike straight from the mains 🤷🏻♂️
Guys this is not good advice, no talk about discharging lead acid batteries. Leisure batteries don't like to drop below 20% discharge as it damages the lead cells inside. Very quickly dropping the batteries capacity. A off grid deep cycle would be better, happy to drop to 50%. In the title it says off grid, they pull out an extension lead that is not off grid!! Zero chat about the amps your alternators makes, carful not to over load it. My 6a bosch charger requires a 490watt inverter, video saying 300watt should suit all, not my case. For me that works out at 40amps off the car. The fact the chap talking was not talking numbers is worrying. I would also recommend buying a camper split charger, it's that diode he spoke about as a kit, wiring including. Don't buy speaker cable to drive a inverter. 40amps through speaker cable could end up burning the cable. Poor advice from a good channel.
I would use proper copper battery cable 35mm2 for the connection between the float batt and leisure batt, that looks like an electrical fault waiting to happen. Use cable size calculation tools to determine cable size. Also nowhere I heard anyone mention that you're only supposed to use no more than 50% capacity of your lead acids otherwise their life cycle is reduced dramatically. Money no object.. Go lithium!
I was thinking the same as I was watching the vid. The alternator produces probrably 80 amps or more and with low voltages as like in a car the thicker the cable the better. it also helps voltage drop in the cable.
@@meuliedoka The alternator doesn't 'produce' current, it's the device that draws current. The Inverter is only drawing about 4Amp from the battery 800w/240v Rays only using a 10Amp fuse so is well within the cables spec. you will only really need 1mm2/core for that so Ray's 79strand cable will be about 2.5mm2/core so is more than enough for this application.
@@CurvedSlightly Hey Chuck, i've been down to see the numbers on these systems and more than happy with them. Obviously love your comments above to hahaha!
@@CurvedSlightly the fact that Ray put a 10 Amp fuse in his setup there is no imediate danger that the wires would melt, so that is a good thing to start with. The inverter may only draw 10 amps or les but I am woried about what hapens when you use the inverter for a couple of hours and the leisure battery gets discharged for let`s say 50%. The moment you start the car then the alternator wil likely try to charge both the car and leisure battery at probrably a much higher current then the 10 amp fuse installed(so then its dependand on what amperage the alternator produces). And what do some people usually do when they have a blown fuse? Right they install a bigger one and then it becomes dangerous.
This guy is straight dangerous! Like someone pointed out, DIY hacker, not checking his numbers at all. 10A fuse? This will draw 80 A at 12 volts to get 1000 W for charging 4 A at 240V, completely disregarding the heat losses of the inverter and the charger - from 25 to 50% I must confess: i stopped watching after he presented the coiled up speaker cable with cross section not remotely adequate for such applications - are you hacking a heater or a charger?!?
I measured it all with a shunt, using a quality inverter (Victron) and the standard Bosch 36 V x 4A charger and peak from the leisure battery with some allowance for temperature derating was around 230 Watts.
@@JohnRushworth You are correct, a 4A Bosch charger will draw around 230 watts which is ~18A @12v. But would you would be mental to put 18A through speaker wire. If you can afford an ebike you can afford an extra $20 to get some decent cable.
I can see there's a lot of comments on here from people that really don't know what the fcuk they're on about. Ray may be a bit ol'skool 'Heath Robinson' but he knows his sh1t. I'm not going to put you all right as I'd be here forever. 1stly. Speaker cable is fine as long as it's fairly thick, his 79 strand is 2.5mm2 that's absolutely fine. In fact speaker cable has less resistance, as that's the whole point of it. If you use poxy speaker cable from your crappy ALBA stereo, it'll melt because it won't take the current. It's exactly the same as automotive power cable, but it has less resistance and more expensive. 2ndly, An alternator won't 'put out' 100amps, it's the device that 'draws' current, so it will only 'draw' what it needs, the alternator can easily 'supply' over 100amps if needs be, that doesn't mean that everything on the vehicle will be at 100amp!
No no no... why have you not explained that you need heavier gauge cable to start running longer extensions ? Otherwise you’re risking a fire Seriously, just chuck a Dcdc or VRS on and a deep cycle in
with the MPT-7210 solar mppt charge controller you can bypass the lead acid battery and the inverter all together, given that your battery accepts a simple +- charging current (no +5V or other encryption signals required by the BMS). all you need is 2 ebike batteries so one can hang on the charge controller while the other one is being used. the MPT-7210 costs around 30£ plus you need an appropriate plug to match your battery charging port. bypassing the lead acid battery and inverter saves you money and increases your charging efficiency dramatically = less solar panel surface required. for a typical 36V battery, the terminal charge voltage needs to be set at 42V. the PV input always needs to be lower than the charging voltage ( in this case
Exactly right. My 60v battery is charged 60v direct using a 400w mono panel connected to a Elejoy 400 boost mppt with output wired to a Cnlink xlr type plug for my battery. The cut off is set for 99% so that I balance the cells only when home using the Sur Ron A.C. charger. This old geezer never once mentioned that if you are using an inverter you should only ever use a Pure Sine one .
Example 2 you have an outlet to charge your 12v battery??? Why did we do this in the first place.... How about just do this. And have unlimited charges. Beginner: deep cycle battery, victron dc to dc charger, pure sine wave inverter. Intermediate: lithium battery with solar panel and charge controller, and inverter Expert: buy a 12v step up and make a dc to dc charger to charge your bike with max efficiency. And implement to any of the above
to be honest it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a better higher amp battery as a extra for your bike and charge both befor you set out and you can play all day on your bike, you have come up with a rather pointless and costly answer to a simple problem,
Surely be better to pay extra 2 quid a night on campsite for their electric hook up and money saved buy a 2nd battery. Also what guarantee is the bike manufacturer going to give you on the batteries of you bike if your not using the correct voltage through all those crazy ideas
Ray reminds me of my Dad (an electrical engineer). I ask my Dad a question about electricity, and when he's finished answering the question, I'm more confused than before I asked it! Good timing on the video. I'm leaving in a few days to my cabin that has no wired electricity. It will be my first time there with my e-bike. Hoping the generator there is sufficient to charge my bikes battery.
I live with MS, mostly in my van, solar panel, mppt charge controller, pure sine wave inverter a Merida e160 and two shimano batteries. Highly, highly recommend 2nd bike battery, allows for epic days or endless boost mode at bike parks. I can only walk for 0.5km or so, but ebike all day!
I've got a van and run a TV and stuff off mine. Just got 2 110ah leasure batteries with a split charge relay off the main battery. Used to charge my 504wh battery twice on one charge of the leasure battery system 👌
I am not following how a 110 amp hour battery won’t easily charge a 500 or 700 watt hour e bike battery. For my 700 watt hour Levo battery at 36v is about 20 amp hours (I think this makes sense as the 4 amp charger takes about 5 hours to charge the battery). So I will reduce my 110 amp hour leisure battery at full charge to 80-90 amp hours depending on efficiencies. This is well above the 50% safety limit of draining the battery. Seems the 110 ah battery could fully charge the 700 wh battery twice without issue. Where is my math off where Ray is saying it will only charge a 500 wh battery once.
Lead acid doesn't perform well at anything greater than a 30% state of discharge. Any more and you risk permanently damaging the capacity. Deep discharge variants tolerate a little more, but for a better system life and more cycles before loss of capacity even with ideal discharge practices, look into lithium.
Dale, your Levo battery is at 36v. The lead acid is at 12v. So 20amps @ 36v is actually 60 amps @ 12v. So by fully charging your Levo battery your 12v lead acid battery will have dropped from 110ah to 50ah. Then also consider that the inverter is may only be 90% efficient. Another consideration is that once you draw down your 110ah battery to ~60% capacity the voltage will also drop. Then your inverter might cut out because they battery cannot supply enough power at a high enough voltage. This 'voltage drop' is why you really want thick cables and have the inverter as close to the 100ah battery as possible. So it might realistically draw down 66amps. This video is soo bad I'd suggest going to one of the ebike forums and asking there.
Speaker wire is not appropriate, especially for the 3000w system he was talking about - you’d need roughly 35mm wire for that! A proper solution would be either a split charger or battery to battery charger for charging from the vehicle battery or an mppt controller for charging from solar panels, these also need appropriate fuses/trip switches and wire to suite the current load which is determined by the maximum power output of the inverter
If you have a Levo, buy an extra battery to take along. Only £1150. If you have a family, buy everyone a Levo and spare battery so you can ride together all day (perhaps buy another Levo and spare battery for guests).
Will a bigger charger hurt the battery on the bike? Also I know you need a pure sine wave inverter I did not hear that mentioned? Also now with the cost of LifePo4 batteries that is the way to go. I realize this is an older video
How many Watts is your inverter? I have a 300W inverter. Hoping that is good enough to get the job done. I have to drive 2 hours (each way) to the trails I will be riding so I can get 4 hours of charging done driving to the ride.
I think its 400watts. But a guy that works for specialized said to be sure that I have enough amps cuz the levo draws 3 amps. So,I got a 4 amp one. And I screwed up I plug it into,the 12volt adaptor in,my truck. Not the lighter
Needs a revisit on this one, we can now charge directly from solar panels using mppt and dc/dc buck converters, so to do away with the inverter and 230v charger bricks etc if not done already
You just need a additional deep cycle battery Isolator, fuse, invertor. Basic stuff. If your newish car doesn't like it. You didn't hook it up properly or its a pos. And try again.
Damn, it seems like i jave to be an electrical engineer in order to charge my E-MTB on the go. I dont know anything about amps, watts, votls or current. Im trying to learn, but its all confusing inless you understand the basics. My wife and i both have Specialized Turbo Levos and im looking for a solution to top off our batteries while we are having a lunch break, between rides. If we take a big loop,come back to the car, i want to charge our bikes for an hour or so, just to get 15% to 20% more chatge to take a second ride after lunch. Its not as easy as i thought it would be and im going to have to do a lot of research, and spend a lot of money, to accomplish my goals.
Stop giving electrical advice!! This is very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing!! No talk about fusing, wire size etc... Should be explained!!
I’m a sparky and thought I’d watch this for a laugh but I was cringing instead 😬 definitely use an AutoElectrican if you don’t 100% know what you’re doing. This video is a clear NOT the correct way. Not safe.
cool vid.. but i can tell u first hand 300watt inverter in def not enough for todays chargers.. i have shimano ec6000 charger and 500watts was not enough to run mine... just heads up...
Did he really just say 18a for an upgraded charger, my god the battery's bms wouldn't be able to handle it. Before anyone thinks about upgrading the charger please have definitive knowledge about what the max charge rate of the bms is, and if in doubt contact the manufacturer of the battery. The worst thing about it is they are saying charge the battery in the boot, great idea throw 18a at a battery that's probably rated for less than 10a right above the petrol tank.. On another note, just buy an inverter that plugs directly into the cigarette socket...
I love EMBN but this advice is dog shit!! What the hell are they thinking airing this?? This is an accident waiting to happen. No fuses, no split charge (needed to stop auxiliary battery flattening the main battery) this is botching at best, dangerous at worst!!! Embn you need to do a tidy version of this
Can recommend an electric van. You have bike storage and simple camping in one car. Benefits with the electric cars is that you can have it switched on without producing noise and exhaust gases while running AC or heating. Also battery capacity in EV´s is measured in kWh and that´s plenty for e-bike charging.
You put the inverter at the back just to cause yourself a problem instead of right next to the battery? It is tiny and can be anywhere. This stuff is stupid and dangerous in places.
A far easier way would be to use an integrated Power Pack Inverter, it's a battery box with an inverter etc or use a spare old battery in the back with the inverter hanging off that. The problem is the 2 amp chargers some bikes use take too long like 6 hours. If money is no option buy a spare e bike battery to suit your bike.
Honestly, if you are adding a car into your e-biking mix, just chuck a second charged bike battery in it and swap it out when you need it. Not only will that likely be the same investment, but you won't have to sit in your car for 3-4 hours waiting for a charge...
I really hope that you guys read my post. Here in the US we love camping and so many people use gasoline run generators to power lights and other things. I have a Coleman Powermate 3000 OHV 4-Stroke Gas Generator. It's supposed to produce 120v with 2 sockets. I tried plugging in my charger for my 48V 15ah lithium ion battery but the l green and red lights just blinked. I took it as it's not working. Now here at home both my chargers are dead. I also have a 2000 watt inverter at home. Seeing your video, was there something I missed? I have 3 to power up when we go camping.
![[Live] ศึกมหึมันส์มวยไทยสังเวียนเดือด เวทีมวยชั่วคราวสวนสยาม | จันทร์ 30 กันยายน 2567](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pM1k6f7JXUc/mqdefault.jpg)
*Ray's Top Tips*
Off grid Vehicle power supply kits are not new, I engineered them first in military vehicles fitted with RADAR in the late 1960’s. Prior
to this date, inefficient rotary converters were used to produce a 230 V supply. 24 V solid-state inverters were followed by 12 V units
and are reliable and have efficiencies above 80%. Off-Grid, means having your own independent 230 V AC power supply. You can
use an inverter based kit to power domestic 230V equipment, including ebike chargers and other small electrical appliances.
My tips for getting going with an inverter outfit that will get you ‘Off Grid’.
Inverters
● Choose the right size of the inverter, 300W charges any ebike, 1000W drives most small appliances including fridges.
● It's the total power draw you need to consider, look on the appliance label, fridges run at 45-120W but take 700W+ starting.
● Inverters work from 11.5 to 14.5V DC. Switch on without a load, they take 10W, loaded, a 1000W unit takes around 1200W .
● Inverters are fused inside or out, most use auto blade fuses. Most inverters shut down at around 11.5V to protect the battery.
● Inverters driven directly from the vehicles battery must be limited to 300W they can draw more than 30 Amps.
Circuitry
● System 1, vehicle battery - 30A fuse - 300W inverter, powerful ebike charger, much faster charge, more efficient, run engine!
● System 2, adds LA leisure battery, (140Ah minimum), small battery and small charger, or big battery and powerful charger.
● System 3, adds solar panels, minimum 250W, more the better, electricity downloaded is free and batteries last longer!
● Keep fuses small and cables large, systems 2 and 3 use Schottky diodes, use 1 or 2 x 40V 50A devices;
General details.
● Vehicles with ‘smart alternators’ need a battery to battery charging device, most new campervans have basic alternators.
● Buy a small plug in voltmeter or state of battery indicator (lighter socket) to be aware of when you might need to charge up.
● 1000W inverters will charge several ebikes at the same time, small ebike chargers might be only 50% efficient, large, 90% + !
● Lead acid batteries are heavy and need to be secured and vented. 12V Li-ion leisure types are not cost effective options now.
● Ensure all connections are good, supply cables are protected, battery always secured upright and buffer charged monthly.
Technical
● The 230V wired output should comply with current regulations, always use a latching Residual Current Device to BS 7071.
● ‘Sealed batteries’ may need to be vented as they can produce small amounts of hydrogen (explosive gas) and in rare cases
a poisonous gas, Hydrogen disulphide (H2S2).
Does a bigger charger give you less cycles of your expensive $500 battery
Seriously bad advice, inadequate cable sizes and serous lack of correct size fuses. You cannot use speaker wire to connect those batteries. Take this video down!!
Yeah. This advice is soo bad that I question all of their other advice.
79 strand wire is 2.5mm it should handle 20A so if fitted with 10A fuse its not a problem, thing get bad when you watch this video and rig up your battery with some B&Q flimsy speaker wire and dont fit a fuse.
should have advised people to use automotive wire and explained fusing and wire size.
Old geezer is stupid. EBike batteries are not 230v. Mine is 60v. It uses a 230vac charger if you are in olde England. 110vac is the charger voltage in USA. It is NOT the batteries voltage.
Old geezer never once mention need for a Pure Sine Wave Inverter
Speaker cable 🤦♂️. Way to much resistance. Take this video down before somone has a fire
Yeah, I think he's just a diy hack, not really an engineer. There are several dubious things he says. Speaker wire? Really? "A bigger charger will be better, how much, we don't know." C'mon, if you were really an engineer you'd know.
Yeah that's pretty bad advice really. I would like to see the wiring in this guys house lol.
The problem is anyone learning how to do these things from this video alone shouldn’t be.
I'm an auto electrician. This video has some extremely poor advice. You should consider taking this video down.
I'm an Electrical Engineer and have to correct 'Auto Electricians' all... day... long...
I'd say Ray's one of those , DIY guys that's done all his own work in his house...you know, the house that's probably going to set fire .
Speaker cable!! For goodness sake don’t listen to this guy! Disaster waiting to happen!
Ray is definitely 'off the grid' alright. Chocolate blocks and speaker wire everywhere....
Good grief. This is a prime example of why learning about electric systems on TH-cam from MTB enthusiasts is a terrible idea. So many dangerous faults and omissions in this.
agreed.. Speaker cable to handle power... A repairman is going to get a shock.
Agreed. Never once mentioned need for pure sine wave inverter and the fact you can eliminate the battery and go PV Direct to bike battery using a Elejoy 400 step up type boost MPPT controller with a bike battery plug wired into the output end. My 400w mono panel goes direct to my 60v sur ron battery through the boost controller set to 66v cut off. This old geezer missed a lot of points. Sounds like he would screw up an expensive battery.
A question for you next video! After so many people have commented that this video is Poor advice, dangerous and should be taken down. Why have You have not done so? If somebody attempts to copy this set up and has an accident or a fire you’ve got to be held responsible!
The video comes across and is in the format of how to!
As a very minimum The video should start and end and have reference to a disclaimer to say that this is just personal ideas and based on principle do not copy this!
A Channel your size its following the amount of people that will watch this surely you have a responsibility and somewhat a duty of care too ?
Legally speaking, I don't think there's any duty of care, because there's no relationship between the EMBN and the viewer that would create such a duty. But I'm not a lawyer.
Please talk to a professional shop about setting this stuff up, Ray’s advice is a big worry. Do not connect two batteries together with speaker cable and some diodes ffs. His advice is very concerning and embn should not have put this video up. Ive worked in the RV market and everything said had me gasping wtf.
That setup is dangerous. The cables are going to melt and blow up the amg battery. Didn't see him put fuses on the secondary battery
Half way through the video I went to the comments to find a comment like this lol
@@Shacko117 hahaha same
I agree, this is shocking advice. Also no talk about amps etc.
TO-220 diodes TOO with the centre leg cut off ffs, SPLIT RELAY, PROPER fusing and 318-A, UV stable cable ffs, hole through FLOOR to gas battery ffs, ;-[
10 Amps in front of a alternater that puts out around 100 amps? And speaker wire... stop. the wire need to be at least 16mm2 (5 awg) and if the cable is very long 25mm2
And most newer cars won't charge the battery fully. So you need a dc/DC charger
SPLIT RELAY, PROPER fusing and 318-A, UV stable cable ffs, hole through FLOOR to gas battery ffs, ;-[
Premier inn and my Bosch 6amp charger...oh and an all you can eat breakfast 😉👍
All you can eat breakfast...hahaha...love it!
OMG no, no no that’s so dangerous that’s not the way to show amateurs how to set up Electrics particularly on a modern car I hope you’re well insured giving advice I’d like that
Agreed soo dangerous , cable sizing too small
Stu Parry it just that if he’s got a car with an intelligent alternator charging system it will destroy the engine management system too totally ridiculous to show something like this in such a popular channel
Yes agreed, as a mechanic it's horrible to see all the bad advice online , all modern cars an Van's have more ecus than u can shake a stick at aswell as smart charging,
Stu Parry Yep I’m an electronics engineer I can see them getting some legal challenges on this when things start to go wrong
Hi there, appreciate the attention to detail! The video is only an overview to show the basics. However recently with smart alternators there is a problem, they do not work the same way as the old alternators. The reason for the change is that they are energy saving and load the battery on braking cycles etc. If you have a smart alternator or possibly a stop-start facility on your vehicle you will need a B-B charging unit.
Please see Ray's tips above, where he has attempted to cover the project in more detail. Doubtless to say there will be more questions but please get involved its great to hear from you!
4 Buy a second battery
Please take this video down. This is not how to wire up a dual battery setup.
He clearly doesn't know shit about 12v systems and how many amps a setup like this draws.
And what is the point of a diode. It will still draw power from the start battery when the car is turned off. Witch was the whole point of a double battery system. That you still can start your car.. and why reccomend using speaker wire. And not the correct size cable that is for car use.. and you are missing fuses on the secondary battery there should be a fuses on every cable that connected to the plus side. But the plus site the cables a so small so they a probably going to melt before the battery explodes xD
I can tell Steve knows exactly what Ray's on about...
Thought I would add an option if you have a hybrid you already have a giant battery. I use a 1000w inverter wired to the 12v battery. Keep the car in the on position and you have as much battery as you want if the hybrid runs low from charging the 12v the engine will start and charge it up automatically. The setup cost me 150usd. Go prius 😅 barely uses any fuel to charge an ebike.
wow, you're a legend.. what a good idea !! :)
Hey EMBN! At about 1:30 into the vid ray says "ebike batteries are 230 volts"! This is incorrect as most ebike batteries are 36 volts dc! The ebike battery chargers require 230 volts alternating current for the input power! Ride ride ride!
Obviously that's what he meant
I'm sure Ray meant the charger, smarty pants.
you're a mong
If you've got an electric hook up why would you charge a leisure battery to then charge the ebike battery when you can charge the ebike straight from the mains 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah, very poor advice all round.
It is awful advice but I suspect this is for a second go around while you’re still at the trail car park away from the hookup.
Guys this is not good advice, no talk about discharging lead acid batteries. Leisure batteries don't like to drop below 20% discharge as it damages the lead cells inside. Very quickly dropping the batteries capacity. A off grid deep cycle would be better, happy to drop to 50%. In the title it says off grid, they pull out an extension lead that is not off grid!! Zero chat about the amps your alternators makes, carful not to over load it. My 6a bosch charger requires a 490watt inverter, video saying 300watt should suit all, not my case. For me that works out at 40amps off the car. The fact the chap talking was not talking numbers is worrying. I would also recommend buying a camper split charger, it's that diode he spoke about as a kit, wiring including. Don't buy speaker cable to drive a inverter. 40amps through speaker cable could end up burning the cable. Poor advice from a good channel.
Steve: "Ray, can I ask a question?"
Ray: "Sure..."
Steve: "What the f**ks a volt?"
I would use proper copper battery cable 35mm2 for the connection between the float batt and leisure batt, that looks like an electrical fault waiting to happen. Use cable size calculation tools to determine cable size. Also nowhere I heard anyone mention that you're only supposed to use no more than 50% capacity of your lead acids otherwise their life cycle is reduced dramatically.
Money no object.. Go lithium!
I was thinking the same as I was watching the vid. The alternator produces probrably 80 amps or more and with low voltages as like in a car the thicker the cable the better. it also helps voltage drop in the cable.
@@meuliedoka The alternator doesn't 'produce' current, it's the device that draws current. The Inverter is only drawing about 4Amp from the battery 800w/240v Rays only using a 10Amp fuse so is well within the cables spec. you will only really need 1mm2/core for that so Ray's 79strand cable will be about 2.5mm2/core so is more than enough for this application.
@@CurvedSlightly Hey Chuck, i've been down to see the numbers on these systems and more than happy with them. Obviously love your comments above to hahaha!
Chuck Norris that 300w inverter could draw 25amps though. 300w/12v (it’s 12v the inverter draws after all, not 240v) = 25amps.
@@CurvedSlightly the fact that Ray put a 10 Amp fuse in his setup there is no imediate danger that the wires would melt, so that is a good thing to start with.
The inverter may only draw 10 amps or les but I am woried about what hapens when you use the inverter for a couple of hours and the leisure battery gets discharged for let`s say 50%.
The moment you start the car then the alternator wil likely try to charge both the car and leisure battery at probrably a much higher current then the 10 amp fuse installed(so then its dependand on what amperage the alternator produces).
And what do some people usually do when they have a blown fuse? Right they install a bigger one and then it becomes dangerous.
Can't you just use a generator?
Yes. Yes you can.
IMPAX IM800I 700W INVERTER GENERATOR 230V (15760)
Yeah, or just run your car!
This guy is straight dangerous! Like someone pointed out, DIY hacker, not checking his numbers at all. 10A fuse? This will draw 80 A at 12 volts to get 1000 W for charging 4 A at 240V, completely disregarding the heat losses of the inverter and the charger - from 25 to 50%
I must confess: i stopped watching after he presented the coiled up speaker cable with cross section not remotely adequate for such applications - are you hacking a heater or a charger?!?
I measured it all with a shunt, using a quality inverter (Victron) and the standard Bosch 36 V x 4A charger and peak from the leisure battery with some allowance for temperature derating was around 230 Watts.
@@JohnRushworth You are correct, a 4A Bosch charger will draw around 230 watts which is ~18A @12v. But would you would be mental to put 18A through speaker wire. If you can afford an ebike you can afford an extra $20 to get some decent cable.
I can see there's a lot of comments on here from people that really don't know what the fcuk they're on about. Ray may be a bit ol'skool 'Heath Robinson' but he knows his sh1t. I'm not going to put you all right as I'd be here forever.
1stly. Speaker cable is fine as long as it's fairly thick, his 79 strand is 2.5mm2 that's absolutely fine. In fact speaker cable has less resistance, as that's the whole point of it. If you use poxy speaker cable from your crappy ALBA stereo, it'll melt because it won't take the current. It's exactly the same as automotive power cable, but it has less resistance and more expensive.
2ndly, An alternator won't 'put out' 100amps, it's the device that 'draws' current, so it will only 'draw' what it needs, the alternator can easily 'supply' over 100amps if needs be, that doesn't mean that everything on the vehicle will be at 100amp!
No no no... why have you not explained that you need heavier gauge cable to start running longer extensions ?
Otherwise you’re risking a fire
Seriously, just chuck a Dcdc or VRS on and a deep cycle in
1kw inverter Generator sorted. No wiring needed.
Exaclty mate job done
And you can easily run 100amps on some speaker wire.. just make sure to have a 10 amp fuse in front xD
Better get a pure sine wave, those commercial ebike chargers are expensive (and proprietary connectors are getting popular these days)
with the MPT-7210 solar mppt charge controller you can bypass the lead acid battery and the inverter all together, given that your battery accepts a simple +- charging current (no +5V or other encryption signals required by the BMS). all you need is 2 ebike batteries so one can hang on the charge controller while the other one is being used. the MPT-7210 costs around 30£ plus you need an appropriate plug to match your battery charging port. bypassing the lead acid battery and inverter saves you money and increases your charging efficiency dramatically = less solar panel surface required.
for a typical 36V battery, the terminal charge voltage needs to be set at 42V. the PV input always needs to be lower than the charging voltage ( in this case
Exactly right. My 60v battery is charged 60v direct using a 400w mono panel connected to a Elejoy 400 boost mppt with output wired to a Cnlink xlr type plug for my battery. The cut off is set for 99% so that I balance the cells only when home using the Sur Ron A.C. charger. This old geezer never once mentioned that if you are using an inverter you should only ever use a Pure Sine one .
Example 2 you have an outlet to charge your 12v battery??? Why did we do this in the first place....
How about just do this. And have unlimited charges.
Beginner: deep cycle battery, victron dc to dc charger, pure sine wave inverter.
Intermediate: lithium battery with solar panel and charge controller, and inverter
Expert: buy a 12v step up and make a dc to dc charger to charge your bike with max efficiency. And implement to any of the above
to be honest it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a better higher amp battery as a extra for your bike and charge both befor you set out and you can play all day on your bike, you have come up with a rather pointless and costly answer to a simple problem,
Speaker wire is for speakers! Should be way heavier and possibly double insulated. Agree with every one else should be taken down
So Ray tell me about this set up.....whilst I try keep a sensible distance because you keep moving towards me......🤣
Surely be better to pay extra 2 quid a night on campsite for their electric hook up and money saved buy a 2nd battery.
Also what guarantee is the bike manufacturer going to give you on the batteries of you bike if your not using the correct voltage through all those crazy ideas
Ray reminds me of my Dad (an electrical engineer). I ask my Dad a question about electricity, and when he's finished answering the question, I'm more confused than before I asked it! Good timing on the video. I'm leaving in a few days to my cabin that has no wired electricity. It will be my first time there with my e-bike. Hoping the generator there is sufficient to charge my bikes battery.
Ray is THE MAN ...more videos with Ray 👍
I live with MS, mostly in my van, solar panel, mppt charge controller, pure sine wave inverter a Merida e160 and two shimano batteries. Highly, highly recommend 2nd bike battery, allows for epic days or endless boost mode at bike parks. I can only walk for 0.5km or so, but ebike all day!
Very good advice Justin. I am thinking of getting extra batteries so I can charge them while I'm out riding.
Fair play to you keep shreddin xxx
I was told a stronger charger will generate a lot of heat and could make the batteries burst into flames.
I've got a van and run a TV and stuff off mine. Just got 2 110ah leasure batteries with a split charge relay off the main battery. Used to charge my 504wh battery twice on one charge of the leasure battery system 👌
I am not following how a 110 amp hour battery won’t easily charge a 500 or 700 watt hour e bike battery. For my 700 watt hour Levo battery at 36v is about 20 amp hours (I think this makes sense as the 4 amp charger takes about 5 hours to charge the battery). So I will reduce my 110 amp hour leisure battery at full charge to 80-90 amp hours depending on efficiencies. This is well above the 50% safety limit of draining the battery. Seems the 110 ah battery could fully charge the 700 wh battery twice without issue. Where is my math off where Ray is saying it will only charge a 500 wh battery once.
Lead acid doesn't perform well at anything greater than a 30% state of discharge. Any more and you risk permanently damaging the capacity. Deep discharge variants tolerate a little more, but for a better system life and more cycles before loss of capacity even with ideal discharge practices, look into lithium.
Dale, your Levo battery is at 36v. The lead acid is at 12v. So 20amps @ 36v is actually 60 amps @ 12v. So by fully charging your Levo battery your 12v lead acid battery will have dropped from 110ah to 50ah. Then also consider that the inverter is may only be 90% efficient. Another consideration is that once you draw down your 110ah battery to ~60% capacity the voltage will also drop. Then your inverter might cut out because they battery cannot supply enough power at a high enough voltage. This 'voltage drop' is why you really want thick cables and have the inverter as close to the 100ah battery as possible. So it might realistically draw down 66amps. This video is soo bad I'd suggest going to one of the ebike forums and asking there.
I have no ideal what this guy is saying, but I love him. 😉😂
Awesome, love this!!!Great idea for the video. Get Ray smashing some ebike laps at a trail centre. :)
Speaker wire is not appropriate, especially for the 3000w system he was talking about - you’d need roughly 35mm wire for that!
A proper solution would be either a split charger or battery to battery charger for charging from the vehicle battery or an mppt controller for charging from solar panels, these also need appropriate fuses/trip switches and wire to suite the current load which is determined by the maximum power output of the inverter
If you have a Levo, buy an extra battery to take along. Only £1150. If you have a family, buy everyone a Levo and spare battery so you can ride together all day (perhaps buy another Levo and spare battery for guests).
Will a bigger charger hurt the battery on the bike? Also I know you need a pure sine wave inverter I did not hear that mentioned? Also now with the cost of LifePo4 batteries that is the way to go. I realize this is an older video
Ray is a legend! Lets keep his workshop a regular thing 👍
David Wilmshurst it might be a nice guy but showing people are very dangerous set up
I have a invertor in my truck that plugs into cigarette lighter and works good!
How many Watts is your inverter? I have a 300W inverter. Hoping that is good enough to get the job done. I have to drive 2 hours (each way) to the trails I will be riding so I can get 4 hours of charging done driving to the ride.
I think its 400watts. But a guy that works for specialized said to be sure that I have enough amps cuz the levo draws 3 amps. So,I got a 4 amp one. And I screwed up I plug it into,the 12volt adaptor in,my truck. Not the lighter
Buy Ebike with 700 watt battery, Problem solved
Pleaseeeeee do a review of the new Whyte EMTB’s. I would really appreciate it.
Needs a revisit on this one, we can now charge directly from solar panels using mppt and dc/dc buck converters, so to do away with the inverter and 230v charger bricks etc if not done already
It's takes me about 100 miles to drain a 625w battery on eco
You just need a additional deep cycle battery
Isolator, fuse, invertor. Basic stuff. If your newish car doesn't like it. You didn't hook it up properly or its a pos. And try again.
Yeah it's basic. But this dude doesn't get it. He probably uses speaker wire for 230v in his house to xD
Buy a second bike battery battery, charge at your house and job done. No explosions, fires or electrocution!
Damn, it seems like i jave to be an electrical engineer in order to charge my E-MTB on the go.
I dont know anything about amps, watts, votls or current. Im trying to learn, but its all confusing inless you understand the basics.
My wife and i both have Specialized Turbo Levos and im looking for a solution to top off our batteries while we are having a lunch break, between rides. If we take a big loop,come back to the car, i want to charge our bikes for an hour or so, just to get 15% to 20% more chatge to take a second ride after lunch.
Its not as easy as i thought it would be and im going to have to do a lot of research, and spend a lot of money, to accomplish my goals.
Stop giving electrical advice!! This is very dangerous if you don't know what you are doing!! No talk about fusing, wire size etc... Should be explained!!
Just buy a 12v to 36v e-Bike charger for under £30 - they are commonly called boost chargers - I have one and it can be set for 24v, 36v, or 48v
Any body else thinking of Kenny everett's reg Prescott?
Hello DIY freaks ffs 😂😂😂😂😂
LOL DC to AC to DC. Guys this is wrong. Let me show you how to do it. (Video coming soon).
WTF??? I would never ever risk the expensive battery of my Specialized Turbo Creo SL...
I hope people don’t do what the videos shows 👎👎👎
I’m a sparky and thought I’d watch this for a laugh but I was cringing instead 😬 definitely use an AutoElectrican if you don’t 100% know what you’re doing. This video is a clear NOT the correct way. Not safe.
cool vid.. but i can tell u first hand 300watt inverter in def not enough for todays chargers.. i have shimano ec6000 charger and 500watts was not enough to run mine... just heads up...
Did he really just say 18a for an upgraded charger, my god the battery's bms wouldn't be able to handle it. Before anyone thinks about upgrading the charger please have definitive knowledge about what the max charge rate of the bms is, and if in doubt contact the manufacturer of the battery. The worst thing about it is they are saying charge the battery in the boot, great idea throw 18a at a battery that's probably rated for less than 10a right above the petrol tank.. On another note, just buy an inverter that plugs directly into the cigarette socket...
I love EMBN but this advice is dog shit!! What the hell are they thinking airing this?? This is an accident waiting to happen. No fuses, no split charge (needed to stop auxiliary battery flattening the main battery) this is botching at best, dangerous at worst!!! Embn you need to do a tidy version of this
If someone knows a decent price on a an 18a charger let me know cuz from what I see they are expensive.
1000w or so, ultra quiet gas generator are forbidden in UK? Also there are a plenty of Portable LiIon Power Station 230v ready. What is this mess?
Can recommend an electric van. You have bike storage and simple camping in one car. Benefits with the electric cars is that you can have it switched on without producing noise and exhaust gases while running AC or heating. Also battery capacity in EV´s is measured in kWh and that´s plenty for e-bike charging.
You put the inverter at the back just to cause yourself a problem instead of right next to the battery? It is tiny and can be anywhere. This stuff is stupid and dangerous in places.
A far easier way would be to use an integrated Power Pack Inverter, it's a battery box with an inverter etc or use a spare old battery in the back with the inverter hanging off that. The problem is the 2 amp chargers some bikes use take too long like 6 hours. If money is no option buy a spare e bike battery to suit your bike.
Have a question I have a 5000w watt e scooter what size of a petrol generator would I need to recharge please answer thank
one day we will have a "solar panel helmet" to have the bike charging constantly from the sun while using it.
I was looking how to make charger out of inverter, and youtube brought me here. Time wasting video.
Where is the dcdc charger? To put in 14v? Have you heard of lithium?
Do not listen to this, especially if you have a vehicle with a battery regeneration system like a vw t6 go to professional camper van specialists
Not a solar panel but a marine battery hooked up to charge when car is on and an inverter is all you need.
Steve looks mighty nervous around electrical equipment. 😂
Why not using lifepo4 cells ? Half the weight … 8000 charge cycles ?
If you have no idea what a cat flap is, look for a split charge relay which is it's correct name!
1:26 so eBike batteries are all 230v?? Funny geezer...mine is 60v.
I have a converter that plugs into the cigarette lighter that even new cars still have. I wouldn’t be running leads from a battery .
I do not know if this is a parody or not, Thumbs down for science illiteracy.
Have you guys every looked at forms to move transport your bike to the trails? I can't find a roof bar for my ebike any recommendations?
This dude needs to not be teaching electronics like this, gonna get someone hurt
This video should be called "3 ways to set your vehicle on fire"
Late to the party but speaker wire isn’t sufficient.
If only it was 1940,s this info could be useful..
Just got a chargery 1-24s 1500w charger my stock 500w charger just died 5years old rip.
This is the worst advice I've seen for charging yet.
How about for those person that their rv is the bike it self
3 day? just buy more battery is batter then charge it !
Back in time for tee time? Where to put the clubs? 😂
Color: Black-350W/36V/21S
Why not use a split charge relay instead of the diode wotsit ?
danimayb they’re very inexpensive AND they come with appropriate cabling!!
2 lightweight 60watt foldable solar panels in series and a good inverter, and you can forget the car too.
Honestly, if you are adding a car into your e-biking mix, just chuck a second charged bike battery in it and swap it out when you need it. Not only will that likely be the same investment, but you won't have to sit in your car for 3-4 hours waiting for a charge...
Offgrid with a car am I missing something?
Prime example on how to set your car on fire
You would be better off using solar panels
Just buy a spare battery
get a E CAR @sonomotors
Or the e-NV200, can do travelling, camping and bike storage in one...
I think this bloke is winding as up
Is there a danger in trying to charge the battery too quickly? Could that generate too much heat and cause a burn out?
Potentially, but the charger would cut off much before that was to happen.
I really hope that you guys read my post. Here in the US we love camping and so many people use gasoline run generators to power lights and other things. I have a Coleman Powermate 3000 OHV 4-Stroke Gas Generator. It's supposed to produce 120v with 2 sockets. I tried plugging in my charger for my 48V 15ah lithium ion battery but the l green and red lights just blinked. I took it as it's not working. Now here at home both my chargers are dead. I also have a 2000 watt inverter at home. Seeing your video, was there something I missed? I have 3 to power up when we go camping.