I think the labels hunt for desperation low key. These young up and coming desperate to make it artists that love their craft is who they really looking for because $50k to someone who earns $300 is all the money in the world.
Well Rihanna was a minor (and was legit threatened with death, even admitted by J) so was Foxy, and Bieber etc. The ones that didn’t sign, you’ve never heard of
Flip is talking like everybody friends… you know how many jobs told me were a family but never broke me off with a raise?… the friendship and family bs is the worst excuse for believing a company
@DagenLucas Yeah they do. Just like music contracts. It's we when everybody eats, but to keep eating off someone's work years later is crazy. The companies have shelved artist meaning blocked them working because they didn't feel like putting out something they won't back.
You just proved his point. When you first started, they made all these promises. 20+ yrs later you realized they weren't exactly doing what they said they would do. You asked out. An they said no. You'd feel a certain way.
Im confused, being family means being entitled to a raise? also, have you never fought with/been betrayed by family? I don’t really understand your point
@@yungslimeto35 that’s my point in a company you are never family. It’s always business. But some companies use the umbrella of the word family to not give raises and other benefits
The music industry is the pimp game. The entertainment business is the pimp game. If you are not a business mind but immensely talented, you will be their prey
You either bet on yourself, or you let someone invest in you and live out the terms you agreed to. The reason why these deals are so long is because there's no guarantee that any of the other investments will pan out. The game is the game.
@@CodeRed1991yes you are, you’ll find out real soon how that mindset goes for you (if you ever do anything of worth in your life) imagine telling that to the military after singing the contract 😹😹😹☠️☠️ YOURE GOING TO JAIL. Tell that to the irs, YOURE GOING TO JAIL
Speaks to how morally bankrupt this system is. I can sign a bad contract because I was desperate, pay back your investment 2x over and you'll still get to eat off me because I signed that bad contract at 21? Whole system is exploitative and fcked up.
been a year plus i watched a tv series man last movie i watched was whiplash and it was for educative purposes i don’t got that time to watch just to be entertained. the more i study music contracts the more i realize a lot of the human race is stuck in this struggle only a few really do got money and those few have to sign with the devil LITERALLY (the government) same thing joe budden is talking about you can apply it to elon musk when he was broke and struggling till those federal contracts and incentives came in.
Only in the music do they have this mindset of being entitled to your rights in perpetuity. In Hollywood you don’t see the studios tell Eddie Murphy, hey we put you in Trading Places your first big movie and we’re entitled to a piece of everything you make going forward. That would never fly. If they pay Will smith $20 million and the movie flops then the studio has to take the L and keep it pushing.
Eddie Murphy wasn’t the product, the film was the product which was owned by the production/film company. We don’t treat albums as individual products the ARTIST is the product unfortunately
@@notreallyafamousartist695 🤦🏾 You don’t know what you’re taking about. the music IS the product. vinyl, CD, digital downloads, steaming, master recordings, and publishing. That’s why when artist pass away they labels can still make money off of them if they own the masters and publishing.
Record labels loan the budget to artists to create the music. No different from financing house/car. Until they recoup/profit the agreed number. There's a lien on the music and artists contract.
It may have something to do with who created the record label business. The business model is heavily influenced by club owners in the 50s and those clubs were owned by mobsters. They created a predatory business model because thats who they were and what the industry have today is probably built on top of that foundation. But the movie business may not be a lot different, just listen to the Wayan Brothers speak about how the Scary Movie franchise was stripped from them. The creators of the content are not much different than the creator of the music. Actors and Directors are in a union though, so they have a big organization to protect them from things like lifetime 360 deals.
Kids, don’t be like flip. A guy like flip tries to put friendship in business matters. The most basic rule of business and friendship is that you don’t mix the two.
broooooo this should be the real talk. neocolonialism man. in africa in asia in south america. wonder why those ppl are suffering? have to deal with discrimination? all started in the 1600s and 1800s
How? Flip literally just signed a contract in December for another year. Same with Mellissa ford she even has her own podcast. Ish has his own merch store and company. Joe in no way suggested he wanted a piece of anything they have.
They aren’t advocating for it Jesus Christ, they are speaking from the standpoint of if it’s realistic to expect the owner to let you out of indentured servitude for no reason when it ONLY benefits them. They aren’t your dad. They aren’t your brother. The world is sick, it’s not gonna happen
Indentured servitude got a shit ton of White folks out of fucked up situations in Europe, to eventually being able to do messed up things to people in the US. Let's call a spade a spade. If you can work that contract right, and are doing so with clear eyes and focus, you can watch the budgets, the label will recoup what they need to recoup, and you can make out pretty great on the owed contract. To then be free to do different business on the next deal. But a lot of folks aren't clear-eyed about any of it, so some of the biggest stars in the world end up like Kanye West or now Drake, chasing advance to advance for the rest of their lives
Saying that the label should be able to make bread off of you years down the line because they gave you your start,is like the first job you ever had still wanting a cut of the job you have 20 years later because they started you in the job market 😂
2 different worlds. *Your first job doesn't pump millions in you to make your brand *Your Job makes the product/service, you just execute the distribution part of it.
Capitalism. That's literally the vicious cycle. Diddy is prime example of this. He used his ppls for his own gain. He thought he was a big dawg till them liquor folks reminded him of his place. He sued them for the BS and now he's facing a RICO. Them made Diddy felt like how he made all of the folks working under him felt for years
No. They are saying that shouldn’t happen, but if you sign the contract that says in perpetuity then try to ASK for them not to eat off of you IN PERPETUITY, then they’re probably going to say no and eat off of you forever. It’s not a SHOULD. It’s a IS THIS LIKELY TO HAPPEN. THE ANSWER IS NO, THEY ARE GONNA TELL YOU NO
Joe thinks like that cause they did Joe dirty and blackballed him and made him quit music so now he thinks it’s ok smh black people really have a fkd up mentality
That’s the difference between Master P, Kanye West, and all the rest of the industry. Those 2 dudes let their people go without the games. What Joe is talking about is the perpetuation of slavery (aka Puff and Co.)And as a Black man, that’s not cool.
Negotiate, those contracts can literally include anything you want. You have to be of high enough value in their eyes for them to be willing to alter their pre written contract. So if you’re not of high enough (perceived) value. Then walk away from the negotiation at that time. Go increase your (perceived) value. While also seeking out other entities that may see your current (perceived) value as high enough to agree to your terms. Or if what they are presenting is doable for you then go ahead. It’s really up to you.
Record companies are banks, that provide loans to acts with hopes on getting a return, in addition to what was initially invested. They aren’t going to absolve you of your debt, just as a bank wouldn’t clear your debt on a loan.
That's not what flip is saying. He's saying yes the company is pretty much giving you loan but he also said you been with them for 20+ years so that means they have already made there money back and some more Why should I be signed to you for the rest of my life? Thats slavery
@ You get what you negotiate. You can include masters ownership as part of your contract, if you’ve created enough leverage, just as you can negotiate a lower interest rate on your bank loan if you have excellent credit.
I mean... I feel like folk try to take advantage of the Waynes. They try to slick a Bow Wow. P wouldn't let them do that to Romeo. Ain't no way after so many years an artist should still be beholden to them folk. But then ain't that one of the reason Prince had to rename himself at one point?
If someone won't let you out of the contract and are telling you that you aren't making them any money 💰 it's because you are still valuable to them no if ands or buts
Literally the phrase that has excuse some of the most exploitative and morally bankrupt behavior human history. "Business is business" mentality made us into the living robots we are rn lol.
@@ptyten9718facts 💯. What’s crazy to me we watched rappers from the 90s-2000s talk about how vicious the record labels are but turned around & did the exact same thing with their artists
If you already made hundreds of millions or even billions off of someone, let them out the contract, that's ridiculous that people will act as if its never enough money to make off of a person.
It's always awkward to me when millionaires use terms like. I gotta put food on the table, to keep the lights on, money on my kid's mouth. Lol like you might have to return a BMW or sell a few watches and a condo before it gets to that
I never want to hear Ice talk about business or ethics ever again because by his logic Ice first supervisor from his first job deserves some of his Pod money
Too many people are judging morality based on whether the outcome is the best case scenario for them. If you sign a deal or contract with certain terms, all parties involved are obligated to uphold those terms. If you at some point decide "nah, I think it would be better FOR ME if xyz", that's cool for you, but that doesn't mean the other side has to now step aside, especially if it's to their own detriment. And if you thought the contract was wrong or immoral, then you shouldn't have signed in the first place.
That’s an antiquated exploiting practice in the music industry… just because you give someone start up front money in their beginning, doesn’t give you entitlement to any residual opportunities in perpetuity.. there needs to be a contract duration.
Y’all remember when your former boss gave you your first job? It probably sucked, but considering that you had no job experience before that, I bet it looked good on your resume. Using their logic, that boss should get a percentage of every check you earn for the rest of your life. “But Ronnjay, my former boss didn’t turn me into a millionaire or billionaire.” Same shit…Different tax bracket. 😒
If you have ever created anything for a former employer (a product, a service, a process for example) then you are already doing that especially if you had to sign an NDA or any other type of clause.
Yeah it’s a bit different. My first job also didnt invest millions to create me. They paid me wages for my time there. There is a version of this when a company pay tuition reimbursement and require u sign a 2-3 year contract after
That’s a bad analogy bro. A manager hiring an employee is simply selecting you for a position based on criteria in exchange for your time and labor that’s it. That manager is not putting up a financial investment for you and will not make money if you perform well. The return for both parties if you perform well is that you both keep your jobs lol
*After reading the book All you need to know about the music business by that lawyer…* Music Artists are contractors. Like the people who build your house or the physician using space at the hospital to treat you or the NBA player. CONTRACTORS. Not employees. That’s an important distinction because laws change between the them. Most music artists are not being screwed. I repeat. Most music artist are not being screwed. Fans develop a personal attachment to artists and are often swayed to whatever side of the argument an artist creates. So step back and look at other contractors for some objectivity. If a millionaire paid a contractor to design and build a 15,000 sq ft apartment. How would that look? In most building contractor deals (negotiations) the OWNER (similar to the Label) will pay the contractor a sum upfront. And then release funding over time as metrics are met. For the label that’s having sold a certain amount of music records. For the home owner that’s having finished a certain amount of square feet for the household. When the building contractor STOPS doing their job for whatever reason (sick, depressed, bored, upset, etc) then the owner has legal clause to refuse to pay them. Likewise for record labels. Why is this? BECAUSE THEY ALREADY PAID THEM UPFRONT AND HAVE A CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT. Artists could always just put out music on their own. That was the SoundCloud era. Guess what? They want money. They want more money than they had. The homeowner wasn’t giving out a charity and neither is the label. Most artists have 4 buffers to shield them from a BAD deal. Not BAD is not ILLEGAL. Themselves and their ability to say no. Their manager who will fight for the best contract for their client because managers get a slice of that pie. Their LAWYER who should be consulted at every negotiation.
Yea but for Ish point at what point does it stop.. like in his Rihanna point. Umbrella came out damn near 2 decades ago. So Jay z should be entitled to those Fenty checks
Flip never takes accountability for basic comprehension of contracts and chooses to lean on street logic when discussing business. If you do not have a lawyer to review your contract, do not sign. If you cannot get a lawyer you were underprepared for the opportunity at hand. Take some responsibility for yourself and the expectations you sign on the dotted line for. Stop relying so heavily on relationships, stop watching other pockets, creating a track record of delivering on contracts is what creates flexibility down the road.
The moment you start mixing friends with business, it becomes sour. Doing things for the Love doesn't make money and that's what I business needs to do. I understand what flip it's trying to say but it can never happen in the way of " you're my man's, let me do this and that for you" even if the contract is solid
Although we may be advocates for creative types, let's just ask the simple question..... In the 100+ years of entertainment business, why haven't these perceptive, capable independent artists wised up and built out their own fully developed independent entertainment industry? Probably because they don't have the organizational skills.I doubt it's conspiratorial, as most of them are not revolutionaries or historical enemies of the current executives' families or Bolsheviks etc etc So why they don't just show the world the difference?
I love the game now with these DSP, I always thought like Joe. I never wanted to get signed. I always want full control over my music, even if it doesn't go anywhere I don't care. I don't want somebody telling me when to put it out, what music to make, who to feature on. No way I want full control of my art.
a contract is not a chain with a collar that attaches the artist to the music company owner like a monkey attached to an organ-grinder..if people in the music business view contractual obligations as 'bait and hook' arrangements, then those 'contracts' are made in 'bad faith' and 'legally unenforceable'...yes i know contract law...
Rihanna never having Fenty if she didn’t have Umbrella is a hypothetical. It’s an opinion with a strong argument, however there’s no factual data to 100% prove that point.
It’s called a “sunset” date. You NEVER sign a partnership deal without a set date that this partnership will either end or enter into a review period in which a buy-out is available 🤷🏽♂️
Yeah. Flip walks into record company building like it's AA(Alcoholics anonymous). But I learned a long time ago to go straight to AA(Accountants & attorneys)
These labels have infinite power over their artists…just as they help “make” the popularity they can tear you down IF you are not smart enough to be a bit head of the game. It’s not necessarily the corporation’s fault that you hired the wrong Legal team to review and explain your contractual obligations.
Signing a record deal is like buying a car, you will get fucked one way or another, unless you are overly prepared and still you will have to fight to come out with an ok deal
Both sides are justified, from their own angle. However, It really shows the power of Media. So many Black people, I hear quote The Godfather, “It’s business. Not personal.” And they harp on that. And move like that. But, at the same time purporting to be Black excellence, Black power, Black entrepreneur - while using the same Mafia Music Contract that been around since Time. Diddy. His own artists made a skit… “RapeN U Records.” Lol. But you Black Excellence? Lol. Or, That deal they had Meg the Stallion signed to was crazy lol. She was right to try to get out of it. But J Prince and that Baseball Player made it seem like, “trying to hurt a Black business” 😂 You’re entitled to do business like everyone else. But don’t pull the Black Card when you signed a Black Woman to slave deal lol. And then acting like it’s suppose to be Loyalty. Loyalty is personal. So don’t say It’s Business Not Personal, but then expect Personal Loyalty. This contract says it’s not about Loyalty, it’s about Profit. So, she’s trying to go make a bigger profit elsewhere. As she should lol. “It’s business, not personal” - remember? Lol
So what I'm reading before Drake joined Cash Money. Cash Money was UMG until 1998. Then Drake joined Cash Money in 2009. So he has his option when he joined. Then I heard it was a bidding war. I got to just break off a minute. This dude head must have swole when he heard that. This is the point. You got people fighting over you it must have come to you by now. I got something. Nope! Your attitude was I'm about to lay back and collect this money. What Chappelle say: Gotcha Bih!😂😂😂😂
Everyone is underestimating the benefits of what Flip is getting at. It’s in the best interest of businesses long-term to do good business. Labels have a reputation for doing bad business, which is why more and more artists are going independent these days. Record labels still have to fight to be profitable which is the reality, but don’t gouge your business partners. This is why labels are dying.
Yeah this sounds like slavery. Imagine your job giving you an opportunity and the rest of your life they own the rights to you because you would’ve never gotten to Microsoft without the skills we taught you lol
This convo right here is the reason the South has been running Hip Hop for the last 25 years cause we dont do all that grimey shit that artists and labels up north do and thats why damn near all the southern rappers are still making good money and living good 20 years later, Gucci discovered Nikki Minaj, Migos, 21 Savage, Metro Boomin, Waka Flaka, Young Thug, Zaytoven, etc, and let them all move on and become a bigger artist without screwing, same thing with Organized Noise and La Face, they had Outkast, Goodie Mob, Toni Braxton, Escape, Jermaine Dupri, Da Brat, TLC, Donnell Jones, T.I. and they let them move on without screwing them, hell, Organized Noise and La Face gave, yes i said gave Oukast and Goodie Mob, 50 percent of royalties, publishing and masters to all of their music, no label, artist or production company up north will ever do that, until folks up north change their way of thinking when it comes to business involving hip hop, they will never be on the level they was on in the 80's and early 90's and the South will continue to run the show
Masta P did NOT act like joe budden and all of them are arguing he should have when it came to snoop dogg. He did what Queensflip is talking about. Salute
Got me over here thinking about the deal LOX had with Puffy where they were giving that man 100% of all residuals even after their Bad Boy contract was up. They weren’t paying Bad Boy, they were paying Puff which makes it all that much worse. But when you come in the game broke ASF, no world experience because you’re just a kid, you’ll sign whatever they put in front of you because this is probably the only shot you’ll get to play the game at this level.
Do you hear him? Flip. Your pockets sitting on four flat tires. Out the blue dude says we are going to give you 5 million. You will sign whatever he puts in front of you. Do you think he is thinking about friendship when he does that? No, he thinks I'm going to squeeze what money I can out this dude until the last drop. 5 mill! You got to be out of your mind. I'm a black dude. You think I'm about to willy nilly give you 5 mill.😂
A record deal is a loan. A high interest loan at that. The industry prefers to sign uneducated and desperate people. To a struggling artist someone talking to you about giving you a shot to follow your dreams and putting a few racks into your pocket most will sign anything. There is also a form of professional bullying. These folks will tell you take it or leave it and I won’t fuck with you if you don’t sign right now. Especially if it’s a powerful person you might feel obligated to sign. Flip is talking from a moral human to human perspective. Yes, it would be nice for folks to be fair in contracts. That’s not how most think. Those folks are comfortable having you sign over all your rights and eating off everything you do. They don’t give af. That’s how the industry is. Only if you come in with some skin already in the game to negotiate that’s when things are different. They take advantage of new artist and just rinse and repeat.
Wait why everyone on here acting as if they know what they talking about . This is just living room talk . Everyone is washed up on here . At least Mel knew when to be quiet. POD is getting Trash 🗑️ talking about irrelevant stuff , Who cares about yall topics 😮
Everybody seems to know music contacts are predatory but everybody still signs. Crazy business.
I think the labels hunt for desperation low key. These young up and coming desperate to make it artists that love their craft is who they really looking for because $50k to someone who earns $300 is all the money in the world.
Exactly
People are broke. Money can change their life. They think they can get out once they in it.
@ lol not me. I’m not bounding my life to a contract.. especially music industry.
Well Rihanna was a minor (and was legit threatened with death, even admitted by J) so was Foxy, and Bieber etc. The ones that didn’t sign, you’ve never heard of
Flip is talking like everybody friends… you know how many jobs told me were a family but never broke me off with a raise?… the friendship and family bs is the worst excuse for believing a company
No company says that bruh 😅😅😅
@DagenLucas Yeah they do. Just like music contracts. It's we when everybody eats, but to keep eating off someone's work years later is crazy. The companies have shelved artist meaning blocked them working because they didn't feel like putting out something they won't back.
You just proved his point. When you first started, they made all these promises. 20+ yrs later you realized they weren't exactly doing what they said they would do. You asked out. An they said no. You'd feel a certain way.
Im confused, being family means being entitled to a raise? also, have you never fought with/been betrayed by family? I don’t really understand your point
@@yungslimeto35 that’s my point in a company you are never family. It’s always business. But some companies use the umbrella of the word family to not give raises and other benefits
The music industry is the pimp game. The entertainment business is the pimp game.
If you are not a business mind but immensely talented, you will be their prey
That's how great artist get tied in.. Robbed..... Lose rights... Welcome to America 🤗
It's not just the music industry, it's literally just capitalism
You will be their hoe. 😂💯
You either bet on yourself, or you let someone invest in you and live out the terms you agreed to. The reason why these deals are so long is because there's no guarantee that any of the other investments will pan out. The game is the game.
Contracts can be renegotiated but if you sign something you can't be upset if persons ask you to stand by it
I'm not allowing a piece of paper to control my life
@@CodeRed1991yes you are, you’ll find out real soon how that mindset goes for you (if you ever do anything of worth in your life) imagine telling that to the military after singing the contract 😹😹😹☠️☠️ YOURE GOING TO JAIL. Tell that to the irs, YOURE GOING TO JAIL
@@notreallyafamousartist695 And that's why they have bankruptcy. I'm not letting a lousy contract stress me out and kill me.
Speaks to how morally bankrupt this system is.
I can sign a bad contract because I was desperate, pay back your investment 2x over and you'll still get to eat off me because I signed that bad contract at 21? Whole system is exploitative and fcked up.
@@notreallyafamousartist695 "anything of worth in your life" has to includ signing a contract? 😂
The older I get & the more the entertainment business gets exposed me wanting to watch tv movies & listen to music becomes almost null & void
been a year plus i watched a tv series man
last movie i watched was whiplash and it was for educative purposes i don’t got that time to watch just to be entertained.
the more i study music contracts the more i realize a lot of the human race is stuck in this struggle only a few really do got money and those few have to sign with the devil LITERALLY (the government)
same thing joe budden is talking about you can apply it to elon musk when he was broke and struggling till those federal contracts and incentives came in.
💯
I really hope Flip has business managers because his business mindset based around feelings and "what should be based on fairness" will never fly.
Only in the music do they have this mindset of being entitled to your rights in perpetuity. In Hollywood you don’t see the studios tell Eddie Murphy, hey we put you in Trading Places your first big movie and we’re entitled to a piece of everything you make going forward. That would never fly. If they pay Will smith $20 million and the movie flops then the studio has to take the L and keep it pushing.
Music business was run by black gangsters now............ 😈👿😈
Eddie Murphy wasn’t the product, the film was the product which was owned by the production/film company. We don’t treat albums as individual products the ARTIST is the product unfortunately
@@notreallyafamousartist695 🤦🏾 You don’t know what you’re taking about. the music IS the product. vinyl, CD, digital downloads, steaming, master recordings, and publishing. That’s why when artist pass away they labels can still make money off of them if they own the masters and publishing.
Record labels loan the budget to artists to create the music. No different from financing house/car. Until they recoup/profit the agreed number. There's a lien on the music and artists contract.
It may have something to do with who created the record label business. The business model is heavily influenced by club owners in the 50s and those clubs were owned by mobsters. They created a predatory business model because thats who they were and what the industry have today is probably built on top of that foundation.
But the movie business may not be a lot different, just listen to the Wayan Brothers speak about how the Scary Movie franchise was stripped from them. The creators of the content are not much different than the creator of the music. Actors and Directors are in a union though, so they have a big organization to protect them from things like lifetime 360 deals.
Kids, don’t be like flip. A guy like flip tries to put friendship in business matters. The most basic rule of business and friendship is that you don’t mix the two.
Colonization contracts is wild
broooooo this should be the real talk. neocolonialism man.
in africa in asia in south america.
wonder why those ppl are suffering? have to deal with discrimination?
all started in the 1600s and 1800s
This is low keyJoe budden talking about queen's flipps and Everyone else's contracts on the joe budden podcast 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
That’s what it sounded like, flip is saying let your boy out my contract.
1000% and he couldn’t say that and Joe was Daring him to say it lmfao
How? Flip literally just signed a contract in December for another year. Same with Mellissa ford she even has her own podcast. Ish has his own merch store and company. Joe in no way suggested he wanted a piece of anything they have.
@@tupactargaryen😂😂😂
True, 😂😂🤣
What they are describing is indentured servitude. The crazy thing is they are advocating for it. This is insane.
They aren’t advocating for it Jesus Christ, they are speaking from the standpoint of if it’s realistic to expect the owner to let you out of indentured servitude for no reason when it ONLY benefits them. They aren’t your dad. They aren’t your brother. The world is sick, it’s not gonna happen
@@notreallyafamousartist695it can happen if people took care of each other but people don’t so it won’t
@@notreallyafamousartist695 They are. We can agree to disagree.
Indentured servitude got a shit ton of White folks out of fucked up situations in Europe, to eventually being able to do messed up things to people in the US.
Let's call a spade a spade.
If you can work that contract right, and are doing so with clear eyes and focus, you can watch the budgets, the label will recoup what they need to recoup, and you can make out pretty great on the owed contract.
To then be free to do different business on the next deal.
But a lot of folks aren't clear-eyed about any of it, so some of the biggest stars in the world end up like Kanye West or now Drake, chasing advance to advance for the rest of their lives
@@notreallyafamousartist695 People really don't understand nuanced conversations. Playing devil's advocate doesn't mean you agree
Budden explaining how he runs the podcast
Don’t become a slave to someone cuz they gave you an opportunity that you also had to do your part in for it to work .. stand up and bet on yourself
Drake... features... 🤔
Just awesome! You stay humble despite the right to be proud.
Totally not a bot comment. “Wowzers I sure do love this! Keep it up!” Like what?
Bot views and comments
Saying that the label should be able to make bread off of you years down the line because they gave you your start,is like the first job you ever had still wanting a cut of the job you have 20 years later because they started you in the job market 😂
2 different worlds.
*Your first job doesn't pump millions in you to make your brand
*Your Job makes the product/service, you just execute the distribution part of it.
Y’all Mfs savage lol… get done wrong, get in power and do others wrong… the cycle continues
Slaves get free and go buy slaves smh
Capitalism 101
Capitalism. That's literally the vicious cycle. Diddy is prime example of this. He used his ppls for his own gain. He thought he was a big dawg till them liquor folks reminded him of his place. He sued them for the BS and now he's facing a RICO. Them made Diddy felt like how he made all of the folks working under him felt for years
No contract should be for life. Term limits always.
So Y'all Saying that If someone is Responsible for your Initial Success They should Own u and Eat off You forever ?
@@TimTurna29 That’s exactly what they are saying. The fact that they seem OK with that is indefensible.
@@dds_que7472you think with your emotions, they all disagree
No. They are saying that shouldn’t happen, but if you sign the contract that says in perpetuity then try to ASK for them not to eat off of you IN PERPETUITY, then they’re probably going to say no and eat off of you forever. It’s not a SHOULD. It’s a IS THIS LIKELY TO HAPPEN. THE ANSWER IS NO, THEY ARE GONNA TELL YOU NO
Only if you sign a contract for perpetuity! You agreed to these conditions.
Joe thinks like that cause they did Joe dirty and blackballed him and made him quit music so now he thinks it’s ok smh black people really have a fkd up mentality
That’s the difference between Master P, Kanye West, and all the rest of the industry. Those 2 dudes let their people go without the games. What Joe is talking about is the perpetuation of slavery (aka Puff and Co.)And as a Black man, that’s not cool.
Your wrong nobody in Master P’s camp owns their music nor have their rights
@@josephb11308sheesh😂
Negotiate, those contracts can literally include anything you want.
You have to be of high enough value in their eyes for them to be willing to alter their pre written contract.
So if you’re not of high enough (perceived) value. Then walk away from the negotiation at that time. Go increase your (perceived) value. While also seeking out other entities that may see your current (perceived) value as high enough to agree to your terms.
Or if what they are presenting is doable for you then go ahead. It’s really up to you.
Record companies are banks, that provide loans to acts with hopes on getting a return, in addition to what was initially invested. They aren’t going to absolve you of your debt, just as a bank wouldn’t clear your debt on a loan.
That's not what flip is saying. He's saying yes the company is pretty much giving you loan but he also said you been with them for 20+ years so that means they have already made there money back and some more Why should I be signed to you for the rest of my life? Thats slavery
Yea but worst because even after to complete everything you still have to buy back your masters
@ You get what you negotiate. You can include masters ownership as part of your contract, if you’ve created enough leverage, just as you can negotiate a lower interest rate on your bank loan if you have excellent credit.
I mean...
I feel like folk try to take advantage of the Waynes.
They try to slick a Bow Wow.
P wouldn't let them do that to Romeo.
Ain't no way after so many years an artist should still be beholden to them folk.
But then ain't that one of the reason Prince had to rename himself at one point?
Facts! And he wouldn’t work with anyone who didn’t own they music cause he didn’t want the labels making money off them after they dead
If someone won't let you out of the contract and are telling you that you aren't making them any money 💰 it's because you are still valuable to them no if ands or buts
Business is business never personal 💯 3:30 business doesn't mix with personal business 🚮 4:44
Literally the phrase that has excuse some of the most exploitative and morally bankrupt behavior human history. "Business is business" mentality made us into the living robots we are rn lol.
@@ptyten9718facts 💯. What’s crazy to me we watched rappers from the 90s-2000s talk about how vicious the record labels are but turned around & did the exact same thing with their artists
If you already made hundreds of millions or even billions off of someone, let them out the contract, that's ridiculous that people will act as if its never enough money to make off of a person.
It's always awkward to me when millionaires use terms like. I gotta put food on the table, to keep the lights on, money on my kid's mouth. Lol like you might have to return a BMW or sell a few watches and a condo before it gets to that
I never want to hear Ice talk about business or ethics ever again because by his logic Ice first supervisor from his first job deserves some of his Pod money
That's a dumb analogy.
Analyze your statement and look at who who owns the product.
Too many people are judging morality based on whether the outcome is the best case scenario for them. If you sign a deal or contract with certain terms, all parties involved are obligated to uphold those terms. If you at some point decide "nah, I think it would be better FOR ME if xyz", that's cool for you, but that doesn't mean the other side has to now step aside, especially if it's to their own detriment. And if you thought the contract was wrong or immoral, then you shouldn't have signed in the first place.
That’s an antiquated exploiting practice in the music industry… just because you give someone start up front money in their beginning, doesn’t give you entitlement to any residual opportunities in perpetuity.. there needs to be a contract duration.
Y’all remember when your former boss gave you your first job? It probably sucked, but considering that you had no job experience before that, I bet it looked good on your resume. Using their logic, that boss should get a percentage of every check you earn for the rest of your life.
“But Ronnjay, my former boss didn’t turn me into a millionaire or billionaire.”
Same shit…Different tax bracket. 😒
If you have ever created anything for a former employer (a product, a service, a process for example) then you are already doing that especially if you had to sign an NDA or any other type of clause.
Apples to oranges
If you sign “in perpetuity“ to work at McDonald’s I don’t know what to tell you
Yeah it’s a bit different. My first job also didnt invest millions to create me. They paid me wages for my time there. There is a version of this when a company pay tuition reimbursement and require u sign a 2-3 year contract after
That’s a bad analogy bro. A manager hiring an employee is simply selecting you for a position based on criteria in exchange for your time and labor that’s it. That manager is not putting up a financial investment for you and will not make money if you perform well. The return for both parties if you perform well is that you both keep your jobs lol
*After reading the book All you need to know about the music business by that lawyer…*
Music Artists are contractors. Like the people who build your house or the physician using space at the hospital to treat you or the NBA player. CONTRACTORS. Not employees. That’s an important distinction because laws change between the them.
Most music artists are not being screwed. I repeat. Most music artist are not being screwed.
Fans develop a personal attachment to artists and are often swayed to whatever side of the argument an artist creates. So step back and look at other contractors for some objectivity.
If a millionaire paid a contractor to design and build a 15,000 sq ft apartment. How would that look? In most building contractor deals (negotiations) the OWNER (similar to the Label) will pay the contractor a sum upfront. And then release funding over time as metrics are met. For the label that’s having sold a certain amount of music records. For the home owner that’s having finished a certain amount of square feet for the household.
When the building contractor STOPS doing their job for whatever reason (sick, depressed, bored, upset, etc) then the owner has legal clause to refuse to pay them. Likewise for record labels.
Why is this? BECAUSE THEY ALREADY PAID THEM UPFRONT AND HAVE A CONTRACTUAL AGREEMENT.
Artists could always just put out music on their own. That was the SoundCloud era. Guess what? They want money. They want more money than they had. The homeowner wasn’t giving out a charity and neither is the label. Most artists have 4 buffers to shield them from a BAD deal. Not BAD is not ILLEGAL. Themselves and their ability to say no. Their manager who will fight for the best contract for their client because managers get a slice of that pie. Their LAWYER who should be consulted at every negotiation.
Thankfully Ish was there to translate what Flip was trying to say.
Yea but for Ish point at what point does it stop.. like in his Rihanna point. Umbrella came out damn near 2 decades ago. So Jay z should be entitled to those Fenty checks
Flip never takes accountability for basic comprehension of contracts and chooses to lean on street logic when discussing business. If you do not have a lawyer to review your contract, do not sign. If you cannot get a lawyer you were underprepared for the opportunity at hand. Take some responsibility for yourself and the expectations you sign on the dotted line for. Stop relying so heavily on relationships, stop watching other pockets, creating a track record of delivering on contracts is what creates flexibility down the road.
Yall should get LaRussel from the bay on the Pod to talk about this topic.
The moment you start mixing friends with business, it becomes sour. Doing things for the Love doesn't make money and that's what I business needs to do. I understand what flip it's trying to say but it can never happen in the way of " you're my man's, let me do this and that for you" even if the contract is solid
Flip is delusional. This is business. Make sure you're not signed inperpetuity or buy yourself or finish your obligations and be done.
Ice always gives a negative response with no thought 😅
Need more clips like this
This is a touchy subject I’d love to speak on this.
Great conversation
Saying Jazz deserves a cut of Drake's money since the 00s is insane lmao these dudes are cucked 😂
slaves debating the rights of the slave master
I would love to hear what buddens makes these days from his music catalogue from streaming
Although we may be advocates for creative types, let's just ask the simple question..... In the 100+ years of entertainment business, why haven't these perceptive, capable independent artists wised up and built out their own fully developed independent entertainment industry? Probably because they don't have the organizational skills.I doubt it's conspiratorial, as most of them are not revolutionaries or historical enemies of the current executives' families or Bolsheviks etc etc So why they don't just show the world the difference?
I love the game now with these DSP, I always thought like Joe. I never wanted to get signed. I always want full control over my music, even if it doesn't go anywhere I don't care. I don't want somebody telling me when to put it out, what music to make, who to feature on. No way I want full control of my art.
Flip was talking about his contract with Joe, on the low
😂 yep
Love this
a contract is not a chain with a collar that attaches the artist to the music company owner like a monkey attached to an organ-grinder..if people in the music business view contractual obligations as 'bait and hook' arrangements, then those 'contracts' are made in 'bad faith' and 'legally unenforceable'...yes i know contract law...
You know so much more than all these artist. Foh. The game is rigged. Go into it,knowing that. Don't play if you don't wanna get fucked. Simple
Wayne and Birdman situation is a perfect example of the “music business “ aspect of it.
Rihanna never having Fenty if she didn’t have Umbrella is a hypothetical. It’s an opinion with a strong argument, however there’s no factual data to 100% prove that point.
Then when you fulfill your contract (and it’s super fruitful) you will get the R.Kelly, Michael Jackson, Kanye and Drake treatment.
He spoke all that shit about Eminem , now he know what it is to be a boss.
Yuuuuup. We keeping receipts out here. Joe thinks we forgot all that he’s said wit his hypocritical ahh
It’s called a “sunset” date. You NEVER sign a partnership deal without a set date that this partnership will either end or enter into a review period in which a buy-out is available 🤷🏽♂️
I don’t mind 360 deal but it has to have limits and an expiration date
😂 lifetime deal
“….And watch from afar!!” 🤔🤔🤔interesting choice of words…
Man ish made an Excellent point 🤷🏾♂️
In order for Rihanna to have Fenti she made them hit records
Flip always gets excited at an opportunity to talk about his relationship with Webb
This is the conversation I miss about the JBP
I love this conversation!
Flip want a friendship deal
Yeah. Flip walks into record company building like it's AA(Alcoholics anonymous).
But I learned a long time ago to go straight to AA(Accountants & attorneys)
😂...I hope they know this is the political equal of advocating for slavery.
These labels have infinite power over their artists…just as they help “make” the popularity they can tear you down IF you are not smart enough to be a bit head of the game. It’s not necessarily the corporation’s fault that you hired the wrong Legal team to review and explain your contractual obligations.
Business is never personal
So never bring feelings to an negotiation table
Signing a record deal is like buying a car, you will get fucked one way or another, unless you are overly prepared and still you will have to fight to come out with an ok deal
Both sides are justified, from their own angle. However, It really shows the power of Media. So many Black people, I hear quote The Godfather, “It’s business. Not personal.” And they harp on that. And move like that. But, at the same time purporting to be Black excellence, Black power, Black entrepreneur - while using the same Mafia Music Contract that been around since Time. Diddy. His own artists made a skit… “RapeN U Records.” Lol. But you Black Excellence? Lol. Or, That deal they had Meg the Stallion signed to was crazy lol. She was right to try to get out of it. But J Prince and that Baseball Player made it seem like, “trying to hurt a Black business” 😂 You’re entitled to do business like everyone else. But don’t pull the Black Card when you signed a Black Woman to slave deal lol. And then acting like it’s suppose to be Loyalty. Loyalty is personal. So don’t say It’s Business Not Personal, but then expect Personal Loyalty. This contract says it’s not about Loyalty, it’s about Profit. So, she’s trying to go make a bigger profit elsewhere. As she should lol. “It’s business, not personal” - remember? Lol
Likeness was definitely sold back in the Def Jam : Fight For NY videogame 😂
One of the better discussions they've had.
Exactly cus the moment joe starts yelling I usually click off. This was a nice listen
So what I'm reading before Drake joined Cash Money. Cash Money was UMG until 1998. Then Drake joined Cash Money in 2009. So he has his option when he joined. Then I heard it was a bidding war. I got to just break off a minute. This dude head must have swole when he heard that. This is the point. You got people fighting over you it must have come to you by now. I got something. Nope! Your attitude was I'm about to lay back and collect this money. What Chappelle say: Gotcha Bih!😂😂😂😂
As a producer, I definitely understand 100% we have to get paid fair is fair
Fair is very subjective. I do agree if you do work you should be compensated.
A deal can have an expiration date if thats what you sugn...if you sign youself away forever thats on you
that web and nitty example joe said was a cold example from joe, and flip waas stuck , cause his friend really did that lmao
Everyone is underestimating the benefits of what Flip is getting at. It’s in the best interest of businesses long-term to do good business. Labels have a reputation for doing bad business, which is why more and more artists are going independent these days. Record labels still have to fight to be profitable which is the reality, but don’t gouge your business partners. This is why labels are dying.
Yeah this sounds like slavery. Imagine your job giving you an opportunity and the rest of your life they own the rights to you because you would’ve never gotten to Microsoft without the skills we taught you lol
This is a definition of predatory. If you already recouped your money as well as profit, you should let the artist out of that contract. 💯
Business is business, ain't no free money out here 💥💥💥💥🔨
This convo right here is the reason the South has been running Hip Hop for the last 25 years cause we dont do all that grimey shit that artists and labels up north do and thats why damn near all the southern rappers are still making good money and living good 20 years later, Gucci discovered Nikki Minaj, Migos, 21 Savage, Metro Boomin, Waka Flaka, Young Thug, Zaytoven, etc, and let them all move on and become a bigger artist without screwing, same thing with Organized Noise and La Face, they had Outkast, Goodie Mob, Toni Braxton, Escape, Jermaine Dupri, Da Brat, TLC, Donnell Jones, T.I. and they let them move on without screwing them, hell, Organized Noise and La Face gave, yes i said gave Oukast and Goodie Mob, 50 percent of royalties, publishing and masters to all of their music, no label, artist or production company up north will ever do that, until folks up north change their way of thinking when it comes to business involving hip hop, they will never be on the level they was on in the 80's and early 90's and the South will continue to run the show
Great conversation amazing
💯09:08-09:42: THAT PART💯
Masta P did NOT act like joe budden and all of them are arguing he should have when it came to snoop dogg. He did what Queensflip is talking about. Salute
It’s crazy how the world is.
Business is business I love you but it’s business
People always hating on record labels, go do it yourself if it’s cheap . These companies invest money in these artists
Got me over here thinking about the deal LOX had with Puffy where they were giving that man 100% of all residuals even after their Bad Boy contract was up. They weren’t paying Bad Boy, they were paying Puff which makes it all that much worse. But when you come in the game broke ASF, no world experience because you’re just a kid, you’ll sign whatever they put in front of you because this is probably the only shot you’ll get to play the game at this level.
Danny sitting back like Birdman watching this.. Joe using the music industry jargon to let them all know he runs them 🥴
Flip got 28 episodes of contract talk and he stil don't understand its no friendships in a contract.
If you ain’t tryna read them contracts like a tekken combo. You’re bound to get finessed
More people should understand business, before engaging in it. Simple. Deals get made everyday. Learn how to make a deal.
Just a reminder gucci let young thug and migos go before going to prison. 1017
Wasn’t lil uzi signed to gucci before drama and cannon as well?
It's the same with John Cena and the WWE. I kinda agree with it. You were never gonna be who you are without the machine.
Do you hear him? Flip. Your pockets sitting on four flat tires. Out the blue dude says we are going to give you 5 million. You will sign whatever he puts in front of you. Do you think he is thinking about friendship when he does that? No, he thinks I'm going to squeeze what money I can out this dude until the last drop. 5 mill! You got to be out of your mind. I'm a black dude. You think I'm about to willy nilly give you 5 mill.😂
The issue is people think music business is different from any other type of business...
Everyday jobs sell that family inclusion bullshit too....
A record deal is a loan. A high interest loan at that. The industry prefers to sign uneducated and desperate people. To a struggling artist someone talking to you about giving you a shot to follow your dreams and putting a few racks into your pocket most will sign anything. There is also a form of professional bullying. These folks will tell you take it or leave it and I won’t fuck with you if you don’t sign right now. Especially if it’s a powerful person you might feel obligated to sign. Flip is talking from a moral human to human perspective. Yes, it would be nice for folks to be fair in contracts. That’s not how most think. Those folks are comfortable having you sign over all your rights and eating off everything you do. They don’t give af. That’s how the industry is. Only if you come in with some skin already in the game to negotiate that’s when things are different. They take advantage of new artist and just rinse and repeat.
Wait why everyone on here acting as if they know what they talking about . This is just living room talk . Everyone is washed up on here . At least Mel knew when to be quiet. POD is getting Trash 🗑️ talking about irrelevant stuff , Who cares about yall topics 😮
Sometimes listening to flip is kinda mind numbing
Great subject
UMGis on a whole different vibe right now: “ Ok let’s get it Bro…money, power respect the FIRST one is better” (for us.)😂
I respect Flips mindset. He always thinks everyones cool lol . He means well 🤷🏽
No friends or loyalty in business.