Neoplatonism and Christianity
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 มิ.ย. 2024
- Delve into the philosophical and theological parallels that shaped the development of early Christian thought. From the influence of Plotinus and his concepts of the One and the emanation of divine beings, to the fusion of Platonic ideas with Christian theology, this video uncovers the intellectual interplay that helped shape the foundations of Western spirituality. Explore how Neoplatonic concepts, such as the nature of the soul, the hierarchy of being, and the pursuit of the divine, found resonance within Christian doctrines
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Music by:
Filip Holm
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Sources/Suggested Reading:
Gerson, Loyd P. (ed.) (2019). "Plotinus: The Enneads". Cambridge University Press.
Gerson, Loyd P (2008). "Cambridge Companion to Plotinus". Cambridge University Press.
Greer, Rowan A. (1979). "Origen: Selected Writings". Classics of Western Spirituality. Paulist Press.
Laird, Martin (2004). "Gregory of Nyssa and the grasp of faith: union, knowledge and divine presence". Oxford University Press.
Lossky, Vladimir (1944). "The Mystical Theology of the Eastern Church". James Clarke & Co.
Luibheid, Colm (Translated by) (1987). "Pseudo-Dionysius: The Complete Works". Classics of Western Spirituality. Paulist Press International.
McGinn, Bernard (2003). "The Mystical Thought of Meister Eckhart: The Man from Whom God Hid Nothing". Independent Publishers Group.
O'Meara, Dominic J. (1981). "Neoplatonism and Christian Thought". State University of New York Press.
Pine-Coffin, R.S. (Translated by) (2003). "Confessions". Penguin Classics.
Proclus "The Elements of Theology: A Revised Text with Translation, Introduction, and Commentary". Translated by E.R. Dodds. Second Edition. Oxford University Press.
O'Meara, Dominic J. (1999). "Plotinus: An Introduction to the Enneads". Oxford University Press.
Wallis, R.T. (1998). "Neoplatonism". Second Edition. Bristol Classical Paperbacks. Hackett Publishing Company.
Ware, Timothy (2015). "The Orthodox Church: An introduction to Eastern Christianity". New Edition. Penguin Books.
Chapters:
00:00 Intro
2:22 What is Neoplatonism?
5:12 Origen of Alexandria
14:16 The Cappadocians
20:04 Theosis
22:44 Pseudo-Dionysius
31:03 Meister Eckhart
32:51 Augustine
36:18 Later Developments
37:28 The Doctrine of the Trinity
38:50 Conclusions
#mysticism #neoplatonism #christianity
As a Byzantine Catholic, I am grateful for your work in bringing Christian Mysticism to public. It would be great if you discuss aposkatastasis in St Dionysius the Areopagus, St Gregory of Nyssa, St Maximos the Confessor, St John Paul II, and Hans von Balthasar.
No Maximus? Pssshhh
@@christosanesti518 This is incorrect St. Maximus the Confessor is venerated by the Catholic Church
I agree fully with your statement.
Where are you from? I've always wondered who are Byzantine Christians as I've never met one (I'm from Bulgaria).
@@EvilSmonker the Catholic church seems to be for white folks. The eastern church seems to be for brown folks.
Oversimplifcatiion here: but The Byzantine catholic church seems to be an attempt of unification between skin color, doctrine, ritual, without compromising scripture and tradition.
I am touched when you said you were "eternally grateful and humbled" for sharing your thought and engaging with you. The honor is ours. Am glad you took the time to do such videos.
Same here!
In what minute he said it so?
@@rami-sepIf he didnt say it in the video, He probably wrote it in a comment thread responding to OP's comment.
He engaged with his audience in the comments, unlike a lot of creators who rarely engage with their audience in the comment section.
Excellent, a Christian video! I love all the videos, I love the Sufism topics but I'm always excited for a Christian descusion . I hope it's a long 50 minute one 👍🏽
Considering a video can't have beliefs, I don't see how a video can be "Christian"
@@ClaimClam bold claim coming from a clam
@@ClaimClam this mfer
i think they meant a video on christianity just worded it differently
Almost 50!
I think follow up videos specifically on Latin (Augustine, Boethius, etc) and Byzantine Neoplatonism would be good. Also a video on the fascinating figure of John Scotus Eriugena.
I think a video dedicated to Pseudo-Dionysius would do well, and I’d love to hear more of your thoughts on his incredible work. The man who took on the name of the disciple who converted due to Paul’s sermon on “the unknown God” is among one of the most fascinating and influential thinkers in the entire Christian tradition.
Also, David Bentley Hart is a very popular modern theologian and philosopher who has championed a return to a neo-Platonic philosophical frame for Christian theology.
You know, in case you ever want a fun interview in this vein.
If I recall correctly not only were Origen's ideas condemned but Origen himself as well.
@@samswallace1626 While Origen was indeed (I think, deeply unjustly) condemned, he remained a profound influence and his intellectual descendants radically shaped how how the church thought philosophically.
That said, given that so-called NeoPlatonism was the last of the great philosophical schools to survive to the transition to Christianity, even without him it would have still been dominant (see Augustine for example).
Both East and West remained dogmatically Platonic in metaphysical discourse until Aquinas came and shook things up.
*St. Dionysius. Origen is an anathematized heretic as are his teachings.
Oh my god that Origen gotcha moment had me dying. Took me completely by surprise cause it’s so uncharacteristic of you to throw an edit like that in there. But I love it!
Keep up the good work brother!
Cited you in my last Philosophy term paper. 🙏
same hahaha, i didn’t expect it at all. made me laugh
Best channel on religion on TH-cam. A great Buddhism episode and now a great Christianity episode.
I'd love you to do a video on Christian Scholasticism and John Duns Scotus in particular.
Or even better, John Scotus Eriugena
Yeah, this is the best religion explainer channel. My other favorite religion channel is What They Believe, which interviews members of different religions to get it in their terms. I like the scholarship here and the connection there and if the two channels could merge in some way the result would be basically the best thing ever.
The line of thought between Origen and the cappadocean fathers and thire connection to middle platonism and the influences of Plotinus on the cappadocean fathers especially Gregory of Nyssa and in turn thire effect and often direct writing of the early councils and much of early Christian thought in general is fascinating many thanks for the much need video and you being you n all your work
Fantastic stuff, have watched every video in this multi-channel collaboration on neoplatonism and they're all so good, glad you're keeping the series going!
Utterly enchanting. I confess much is over my head, yet your delivery somehow follows a clear throughline. Looking forward to more
Hahah I loved the edit & sound on Origen’s reveal! It was refreshing and not over done in the video, perfect bro & thank you once again for your contributions to us ❤
As always, you never disappoint. The content is very interesting, so thank you.
Just realized you use your own music for your videos! I love it!
Why I love DUNE is because Frank Herbert weaves so much philosophy and religion into it, got me into researching study all. In Children of Dune before going off ,LETOII says to Stilgar the Fremen leader - ""The beginning and the end are one," Leto said. "You live in air but do not see it. A phase has closed. Out of that closing grows the beginning of its opposite. Thus, we will have Kralizec. *Everything returns later in changed form*."
Isn't alot of what the NeoPlato-Christians say about 'God' no different than the DAO-ism? The human brain has only so far in conceptualizing existence and the universe it seems but this way is more reflective of reality imho.
@@xunqianbaidu6917 And who are you? I don't care of your opinion - talking about something being unknowable and beyond comprehension but encompasses all is SAME, regardless why how thru what process you come up with it. The outcome of your behavior and life following that mindset honestly ends up same no matter the names you give it. Live in your provincial spiritual bubble.
Apart from basic historical research posits Jesus studied Buddhism being spread already into Middle East by his time. It all was mixing as how to interpret the world self universe society. Don't follow this channel if you can't grasp that concept of humanity paths of seeking enlightenment going thru same ideas.
Dune is one of those series that changes how you see life and your perspective. Read all 6 and loved every second.
@@klyanadkmorr The short answer is "No". Platonism shares a common thread about "God" with every eastern theology as well as Daoism but is more in line with Buddhism than Daoism.
The idea that Daoism is a continuous form of dualism is quite different than the concept of the nature of forms, as found in Platonism. Daoism is a very philosophically complex theology and would be too difficult to really break it down in a brief comment here. The one thing to remember is that ALL religions (aka theology/mythology/mysticism) has ideas that will inevitably transcend from one to the other.
I am most appreciative of the content of your videos Filip, but the constant interruptions are annoying but not sure they can be avoided. Your comments are thoughtful, thorough and very well researched. Love your work. Thank you!
I love this! Very short yet very informative and educational. Thank you!
Another great video. Well researched and presented
😊
I love seeing Gregory of Nyssa! The Life of Moses is a great read. It’s a very interesting connection with between the Garments of Skin and the physical world of the Neoplatonists (not that it’s a connection Gregory directly made, but it comes to mind in the context of this.)
You somehow manage to create videos on the topics I find the most fascinating. I love the level of detail you’ve been going into with recent vids too. I’m a seminary student and often refer this channel to fellow students and professors. Thank you for your great work!
Thanks. I spent a lot of time exploring Eckhart, Pseudo Dionysius & Neoplatonism while in religious community 30-40 years ago. Good to refresh my memory.
Fantastic video keep it up you're doing amazing things also what is your favourite historical series of all time???
I love the dialogue between the main religion tubers I watch
Love your content! The influence of Neoplatonism in Christianity is absolutely fascinating to me. It's very evident once you have familiarity with it.
This is a great video! Please do a follow up regarding Renaissance figures like Marsilio Ficino and their relationship to Neoplatonism. This is always under-stated in discussions about the Renaissance and Humanism and is in many ways the core of why it even happened.
I wish there were 50 hours in a day and I could study all of those topics in depth. I want to read all the primary sources, the secondary materials, everything, but I haven't even finished the Bible yet... Thank you for giving us a glimpse, though.
Just do amphetamines and never sleep
I am convinced that neoplatonism’s influence is what separates orthodoxy from heterodoxy in the Christian faith. This is because as Filip points out, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is heavily influenced by neoplatonism. By delineating 3 persons within the Trinity, the early church fathers were able to conceive of the “One” substance behind the 3 persons as Platinos’, nonpersonal, “One”.
That makes sense, since apparently, the bibles entrusted to the Roman Catholic Church were influenced by Plato, and Origen ran with it, Eusibius went along as well, Pamphilias then gave the compromised Bible to Constantine, who wanted semi-Arian scriptures in order to keep peace in his realm.
I think that’s the other way around more so as Neo Platonism was influenced by Christianity since Christianity existed before it and most had their influence from it.
@@ralphowen3367???
@@hap1678 Which comment were you questioning?
@@hap1678 I do not know how gnosti christendom fits in, but it somehow is related to the new platonic ideology. The gnostics believed the body and flesh was evil and Planonists figured like Origen that Christianiy might mix well with Greek philosophy. I am just guessing though. Jesus said if someone ("every spirit") does not confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not of God--I John 4:3.
Fascinating! And beautiful, a pleasure to look at. Thank you!
I've watched these 3 times now over the course of several days its so good. And I've watched the whole series as well they are all so well done. TY so much all of you. My eyes are not as good as they once were (old age) so high quality audio content like this is a big part of my ongoing learning.
28:17 What you said here sounds very much like the subject of “Dark Night of the Soul” by St John of the Cross. The entire video is great as well. As a Christian and a student of Neoplatonism this is a fascinating subject. Just a little bit of reading and it’s clear that Christianity was heavily influenced by Greek thought, especially Platonic. It makes me wonder how much this influenced those that ultimately chose which books to be included in the New Testament. The letters of Paul have some Neoplatonic undercurrents that would be very attractive to a council that also leaned towards that philosophy. Very interesting stuff to be sure.
Thanks a lot, this is a great introduction to the topic. We're not far away from sufism, by the way. Could you please make a presentation of lesser know figures like Evagrius? I remember how impressed I was by his writings - his insights and ideas are astonishingly close to the ideas we usually associate with buddhism or advaita vedanta.
very good video...I take university exams on Medieval Philosophy this semester and this video is absolutely helpful...
Hello, thank you for your content, good stuff! I came here to write a suggestion that you should give reading advice and youv actually done it. Legend!
We don't just want, we need your in depth videos about these figures you talked about in this video. Congratulations my friend, you are truly one of the best content creators on youtube according to my opinion. And I bet alot of people would be pleased to see more stuff about orthodox crhistianity.
Love your work, but always so happy when you post a video on Christian mysticism, expecially if it touches on Orthodox Christianity! Keep up the good work 👍🏼
He didn’t like your comment even though it’s a top comment because he’s biased against Orthodoxy and Catholicism
Fantastic overview. Would love to see a deeper dive into Pseudo Dionysius as well as videos on Cusa and Ficino!
Great video, great channel man. Hi from Scotland. 👋🏴
The concept of theosis certainly predates the Cappadocians and Athanasius. Irenaeus said before the end of the Second Century, "[Jesus] became what we are so that we might become what He is."
But it cannot be traced to the Hebraic world the rabbi lived and died within. He wouldn't understand it, consequently the cult that followed his death stands refuted.
@@ganshrio7336 It is already there in the writings of John, Peter, and Paul (who studied under Gamaliel, so at least his rabbinic cred is reasonably solid). Guess those three First Century Jews aren't Hebraic enough for you.
The "God became like us so we can become like God" is a concept that you can find rather easily in the New Testament
Love to see some of my favorite Christian philosophers highlighted here! Gregory of Nyssa has been very influential to me and isn't as well known as I think he should be.
Is there a work by him you would recommend?
@@nectanbo I think the only good English translation of his work is the Homilies on Ecclesiastes
@@justinbirkholz7814 thank you, will look into this 👌🏽
@@nectanboLife of Moses, Life of St. Macrina, On the Soul and the Resurrection, On the Making of Man, The Great Catechism, On the Lord's Prayer, On the Beatitudes.
A wonderful video. Deep gratitude to Filip.
Please do video on Desert Fathers, i feel it really fits the themes of your channel
St Augustine also very explicitly identifies the Neoplatonic godhead with that of John 1 and Philippians 2 in Book 7 of the Confessions. His only issue is that they denied the incarnation (9.13-9.14).
Please make a video of Origen of Alexandria
You're work is beyond expression congratulations.
Thanks so much, this one of your best ever!!
I really enjoyed this video; the many connections you made between Plotinus and others was fascinating. Some of them were new to me. I also liked the possible connection between Origen and Plotinus through their common teacher the Platonist Ammonius Saccas. I might have added that Augustine was well read in Plotinus specifically, but that is a minor point. // As an aside, and I know it's a side issue, I am averse to the use of the term 'Neo-Platonism' because 1) Plotinus didn't consider himself as doing anything new, and 2) all of his contemporaries also thought of Plotinus as simply a Platonist. 3) This view, that Plotinus was simply a Platonist (jus like Plutarch, for example) was held for over 1,000 years. For example Ficino considered Plotinus to be a Platonist, no 'neo' anything. It wasn't until the 17th century when some German historians introduced the term Neo-Platonism because they wanted to separate the mystical teachings of Plotinus from the 'rational' teachings of Plato. But Plato was a mystic and the mysticism of Plotinus is simply the mysticism of Platonism. OK, I'm done with the aside. // I am very much looking forward to the next presentation. Thanks.
Hardly an aside. Important point you make. Thank you.
I wonder if Augustine's reading of Plotinus was influential in adoption of, or later rejection of, Manichaeism.
Hey, you may hear this too often. But your works are art. They are true ones. I adore your works soooo much.
And also, this is random, but could you suggest some good movies to watch?
I like your taste of "art" so much. I believe your movie preferences would be significant.
Thank you.
Excellent. So read. The connections so evident.
Filip: Your videos are beyond-words informative, and I must say, beautiful! Please keep on doing what you are doing! It would be a honor to chat with you sometime. - Lukas
1:57 be very careful about what you mean by this. If you look at church fathers like Justin Matyr, you can see many of the practices and beliefs are still maintained in churches to this day so to say an "Orthodoxy" wasn't established isn't entirely correct.
I need more Christian videos from you
Excellent discussion 👏
Excellent topic. Thank you 🙏🏽
Contemplate what ' omnipresence ' means . As Sri Ramana Maharshi said ' infinity does not allow for finite parts within it ' .
Meister Ekhart sounds very much like an Advaitin to me . ✌️✝️🕉️
He's realized complete liberation.
He was a stoic pantheist. He wouldn't have a clue what you are talking about, much like the Pirahã people.
Thanks for the video, would love to hear your view on Astrotheology many of these relgions have an astrologoical aspects in their teachings.
Great video Filip! Would you consider doing a video on Teilhard de Chardin? A very interesting figure that is very often not spoken about.
38:25 This part in the conclusion blew my mind! When I used to be a Christian, it was so hard to understand the Trinity other than explaining God as maybe a "multi-dimensional" being. But seeing the Trinity as various manifestations of God through different condensations of being (The One, the subtle/causal, the physical) it makes more sense how they can says there's one God in three manifestations. So fascinating, thank you!
Have you considered a video on the similarity between the platonic 'One' (and its similar ideas in Islam and Christianity), the Advaita Vedanta ideas of Monism, the Dao, the Taiji (Supreme Ultimate) and Buddha-nature. They seem to be remarkbly similar, at least at face value. Might be too big a subject to tackle in a single video though.
Hardly, it would be better to understand these ideas within their original languages and cultures. They are all alien to each other.
As always, this was a great episode, but it does raise a question for me. How was Neoplatonism adopted among Christian groups like the Neophysites (Armenians and Copts) or the Nestorians?
Coptic-egyptian church, Armenian orthodox church, Ethiopian orthodox church, Syrian yacobite(jacobite) church are miaphysite christians not a neophysite. Miaphysite Church was at war with Nestorian church for 100's of years...
Monophysites
Yes, please have more videos on Neoplatonism, and one with Ficino/Pico.
I was shocked how different malls in Kuala Lumpur were from America. They were everywhere (it blew my mind you walked through them to get places), had everything for everyone, and were always full (not to mention everyone wore masks)l. It’s the opposite experience as in the US. It did seem to come down to a difference in urban planning, because, although KL was built for cars and had many also, KL made it all work with massive planned projects that included malls, high rises, office buildings, everything. I couldn’t imagine something of that scope being possible in the US. Too many people would need to agree.
You might also have mentioned that the tax benefits available to mall developers in the 80s and 90s are no longer available. That’s slowed mall development (and replacement) in the US in the years since.
Correct me if i am wrong please… But wasn’t the council of nicea in 321-325ad the meeting that actually changed Christianity to what it is today??? Wonderful video thank you…
It played an important role in the establishment of the trinity as we know it, sure. But it was also something that had developed, and continued to develop, before and after.
@@LetsTalkReligion i believe it as well that Gnostic, Mithraism, Dionysus, Apollo (?) were prior to second Christianity???
I've watched this at least 4 times now. I wish there was a whole book on this development and interchange. The religions in that time seem a lot more deep and meaningful than our modern bs take "Jesus died and I believe so I'm goin to heaven". Signed up for your patreon :)
Agreed.
There is a fantastic podcast called the secret history of western esotericism and the episodes on Plotinus are as equally fantastic.
Read them for yourself. St. Dynosuis, St. Thomas Aquinas, and others were huge on Neo Platonism and Christianity. Although I do find it fascinating how such a foundation is laid upon Christ and what he did for us. The apostles not even knowing much of this philosophy and later fathers developed it
Thank you for the wonderful upload
This episode is so validating... I saw some parallels between to the two schools of thought but had no real leg to stand on. Thank you for this!
I’ve always seen the differences between the Old and New Testament’s partly as one being more Jewish influenced to the other being more Greco Roman influenced. The kind of thing I think about when I can’t sleep.
@@MartyMcKJewish Kabbalah is Aristotle and Plotinus melded together student of Plotinus even created the tree of life that Jews adapted into their own.
It would be good to know which of the beliefs are found in Christianity versus which ones clearly are only from Hellenist thought. Things like preexistence are found in the OT and NT but others like Gods impassibility or being beyond all human understanding are certainly contrary to biblical thought. There is some overlap so it would be ideal to different between what is purely platonic vs what could be in both vs what is only biblical (Jewish/Hebrew).
God being beyond all understanding is almost a definition of the Christian God, it is stated in the Orthodox liturgy. If that is not Christianity, I don't know what is.
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.“ - Matthew 11:27
If you want to find that out just research what the jewish people and rabbi jesus believed during the second temple period.
Yes!!! A Christian video!!!! Finally
I've become fascinated by the philosophical principles that seem to be shared by eastern religious thought in the likes of Hinduism, Buddhism, and Jainism on one hand, and on the other in the west by the likes of Neo-platonism, the mystery religions like Orphism, and the vast array of ideas and practices that fall under the umbrella of gnosticism. Apparently such ideas have persisted in the west both as heresies outside the established bounds of Christianity, and as explored in this video, within the Christian mainstream.
It seems to point to a set of beliefs that are deeply rooted in the Indo-European religious tradition, which have been passed down to many succesor belief systems, and heavily influenced many others. I'd love to see an in-depth examination of those possible connections; the breakdowns of Indo-European religion I've seen seem to mostly focus on comparisons between the names and roles of deities within various pantheons, which feels like a shallow aspect to focus on, though admittedly a lack of written records from that early period may mean I'm hoping for too much.
Incredible work!!!
Platonism was one of the reasons I finally left christianity. When you properly study it you realize of the inconsistencias christian doctrine has with this neoplatonic approach, the mainstream christian one, and the judaic one. The Monad can't be any named god, much less a human god. Those in any case would be just other emanations of the Monad. Just as when Paul didn't understand at all the athenian Unknown God, christians, and muslims too got the Monad completely wrong.
Why so? The God of Christianity cannot be known, that is almost a definition. The Orthodox liturgy says exactly that.
@@nikolaosaggelopoulos8113 If that were the case then christian doctrines wouldn't come from it, they would come from somewhere else...
This is a common christian contradiction, you cannot pretend to preach what The Monad wants (implying the Monad has any agency, which is already questionable) while at the same time you acknowledge you cannot truly know or understand The Monad.
If you truly realize you cannot understand the Monad, then how can you know the god Yahweh of the hebrew religion is the Monad? how can you know Yashua Ben Yosef is actually the Monad? If you say Yashua is an incarnation or emanation of it, how is that any different from acknowledging any of the other multiple Gods emanated from the Monad?
At the end, all you can do to justify these paradigms is sticking to hebrew mythology, which wouldn't be any different from doing a platonic exegesis to classical myths, and in both cases, you can have complex valid relligious systems.
@@americaeaustraliaepius4338 - I do not understand what you are talking about. Of course one cannot know what God wants or that God wants, if God wants, if one cannot know God. It would be silly to ask whether God has a name. Besides "since God is one and unique, he cannot be named in any way" St Justin the Martyr.
@@nikolaosaggelopoulos8113 Then why you insist in preaching what the Monad supposedly wants? you cannot know it, no one can. Indeed the Monad is one, unique and cannot be named in any way. THAT is why the Monad is NOT a being. Yahweh, just as Yashua, are beings, both have consciousness and agency, and in the case of yashua, he's simlpy a mortal, not even a God from the ideal world, just a mortal from the physical reality.
This is the mistake christians do when they engage with platonism. They assume the god of the hebrews, the triune god Yahweh/Yashua/holy spirit is the Monad, when it clearly can't be. If something, he'd be just another emanation o fthe Monad.
@@americaeaustraliaepius4338 - Who preaches that the Monad wants something? The God of the Old Testament is not the God of Christianity, except in the way the OT God is interpreted by the Fathers of the Church, i.e. as a trinity. None of the natures of the trinity nor the Christian God as a unit are said (e.g. in the Nicene Creed) to want anything.
Christianity just keeps revealing itself to be far more interesting than I ever imagined
Yes it goes very deep. Check out Saint Maximos the Confessor.
I rather go to the real thing and not the pretender... christianity is that pretender
@@americaeaustraliaepius4338 ok
What is that piece of art with the black circle surrounded by everything? It really moved me and I would love to find it. Thank you!
Wow, this is great, thank you!
Theosis should be the goal of all Christians IMHO. Too bad Protestantism decided such things were spooky and ergo "evil." Once the soul get's a taste of God's divine presence through prayer & contemplation, she will be changed forever by the estatic Union. And she will be permanently changed in very real ways. *Glory be to God on high!*
Rabbi Yeshua did not believe in a "soul", it would be alien to him. He wouldn't even understand you.
Apocatastasis changed my entire view on Christianity to positive :DDD
Great show!
Thank you, Filip!
It is amazing how greek philosophy impact in christianity, from Plato, to Plotinus and the stoics, the pagan school didnt disapear or die, it just get new language, a christian language, it is there, very alive but in disguise.
Yes, it’s as if the New Testament borrowed heavily from the Greeks and Romans 🤔. I think Richard C. Miller has a book that investigate this called Resurrection and Reception in Early Christianity.
They were not pagans, rather monotheists, practically all of them. Their monotheistic beliefs tend to be sidelined or completely ignored because they were not formalised into some official religion with standard rituals, as in the case of the Israelites.
Would be great to connect with people in Sweden who is interested in christian mysticism/esotericism and wishes to develop a community/network of some kind.
🕊🇸🇪
Many western European Fraternal orders promote the study or practice of Christian mysticism found in the western European Esoteric tradition such as the Swedish Rite Freemasonry do that; its doctrine is based on Templarism and Christian Mysticism. Rectified Scottish Rite, Memphis Rite, and Misraïm Dienst are other system of fraternal Christian mysticism. Outside of Freemasonry there is Martinist and Rosicrucian.
@@kevionrogers2605 Thank you for taking time to answer.
I feel somewhat confused about masonry. I don't doubt there is lots of knowledge and even proper heritage of christian esotericism, but I get the feeling that there is something else that have crept into its ranks. I am afraid I wouldn't discern between what is what.
Have you heard of cypriotic mystic Daskalos and The Researchers of Truth?
I listened to the episode on Rosicrucians from Agrippa's Diary recently and it was fascinating.
@@Mika-El- I have not.
40:50 I really enjoyed listening to this discussion on Christian Mysticism.
Thank You
Thanks so much. Fascinating.
It’s a testament to the Neoplatonic air that St Augustine breathed that he couldn’t even criticise ‘literal’ emanation from God without in the same breath speaking of ‘returning to the One’ (his words, not mine):
“…you did not make all things from yourself… but rather you made all things from nothing; you made them an unformed unlikeness, which would be formed by your Likeness so as to return to you, the One…” - Book Twelve of The Confessions, 28.38
It's faith, not the nous. Faith = trust = letting go = actually relaxing your muscles inside your body and head. Life changes.
Mathew 14:31. Peter supposedly walked on water. Where is thy faith to do so Christians? What is your excuse?
@39:25mins. Nice to see the church in my hometown Cologne.
So impressed. Thank you. I’d love to hear you speak about Athanatheos.
APOCATASTASIS NOW!
anyone else think this all sound very Buddhist? The whole unitting of the soul makes me think of the concept of nirvana where the soul unifies with reality.
Different because most buddhists don't believe in individual souls, they think we are made of 5 aggregates of matter which cling to the material world which is Samsara or existence. For them Nirvana is not like heaven but a state achieved when they dissolve the aggregates of matter and in their words "douse the flame" of desire and transcend the cycle of reincarnation.
They explain it as going from a fire to turning into warm embers but for us Christian the union is always relational, we seek to burn in the love of the Trinity retaining our individuality but reflecting the perfection of God. It's not some abstract dissolution into an impersonal universal soul.
Similar time periods. Same thought, different understanding; separated by land and culture.
In Buddhism, there is no "reality" to be unified with. And no soul, for that matter 🙂 But I think I can see what you're getting at.
@@LetsTalkReligion The superficial similarities between Neoplatonic thought and Eastern philosophy and where they critically diverge is definitely something that should be covered eventually, but I'd imagine that requires a truly absurd amount of study and needle-threading to properly collate everything together.
It is more similar to hindu way of thought, not buddhist.
Definitely peaked my interest.
Nice of you to add a list of suggested books to read.
And yes, to quote another post here: Best YT channel for "religious history "
*piqued 😘
Very useful, helpful - thank you
Do you know bro in polytheistic traditions like Hinduism, hellenism, Astrauism, zoroastrianism, slavic faith, Norse faith, Vedic faith mrithraism , kemetism,Aztec faith ,Mayan faith shintoism,Chinese folk religion etc , and Yoruba faith etc .have a concept of henotheism in which one supreme lord and one supreme divine lady give birth to all Gods, Demi-gods ,angels ,fairies, demons gargoyals, devil's and humans and other organisms and in polytheistic religion/ faith like hellenism The lord/lady Khaos divide himself into one divine supreme lord and one divine supreme lady and marry each other and give birth to all other beings in existence of cosmos that beings is beyond all creation and above all and beyond all hypersversal,metaversal , Omniversal ,multiversal and universal things that being is so powerful that if he came into existence the entire creation would be destroyed except his sons and daughters which are his biological creation like Gods and Goddesses
How is Zoroastrianism Polytheistic?
@@ReformedEducation ever heard of mrithraism the worship of lord mrithra who was son of supreme lord adhura mazda the first monotheistic religion is Zoroastrianism made by prophet zaruastra and before that they are polytheists
@@xunqianbaidu6917 Says flat 🌎 earthers sun 🌞 rise from mud Followers and whole quran and bible has rubbish science and also earth is flat earth is centre of our solar system
@@xunqianbaidu6917 yes abharamic religion is rubbish and gibberish
@@xunqianbaidu6917 even through their is no historical proof of 6000 years old creation of universe and a person name Jesus exists or adam exists or abharam exists all are made up story
Plato: destroy democracy, reinstate oligarchic tyranny, can you beat that fascism?
Christians: hold my holy water!
@Sigma - He was pupil of Socrates and (seemingly) nephew of Critias of the Thirty Tyrants. He should have been given the hemlock as well and at the very least we should all spit on his posh courtyard as Diogenes did.
Look: the only Platonic Aristocracy (rule of the philosophers) ever was the USSR... and it was also a "popularity contest", with Trotsky losing to Stalin. The rest is history.
I therefore double down on democracy (incl. socialist democracy) as the only viable form of government, because people may be fickle and somewhat dumb (Plato included, mind you, if people is generally this or that, so are you, because you're also people) but they are the many eyes and minds that can prevent mismanagement... by other people, by people attracted to power (often by the wrong reasons: not altruist service but selfish ambition). The main reason why the (neo-)Platonist USSR failed was because it did not implement democracy (this was of course arguably impossible because of its prematureness and illiterate peasant characteristics, much like Cromwell's Commonwealth also failed to establish a bourgeois-style democracy earlier in history, but regardless). Only democracy can keep corruption and abuse under some control, imperfect as it may be, in any non-democratic hierarchy, corrupt parasites will thrive and destroy society.
Plato was arrogant as Diogenes observed and his arrogance of "perfect ideas" was a burden on society until Kepler decided to get rid of it... and thus kickstart (along some others) modern science (which is again at some risk because of entrenched Platonism in Academia, mind you).
Only good comment
@@LuisAldamiz your conceptualization of the USSR does not match actually history.
The USSR Soviet democracy was council democracy. It wasn’t a sham people actually voted and had representatives. Marxism is based on democratic worker ownership of the means of production.
Historians like Robert W. Thurston explained while the top of the soviet system became largely bureaucratic, and controlled by Vanguard Communists the local levels of society remained largely participatory democracy.
Yes Leninist Vanguardism did exist and was hotly criticized since it’s very beginning by someone like Luxemburg who preferred direct democracy. And Marx’s ideas of democracy are influenced by Aristotle that it should be extended and wealth should be redistributed to stabilize democracy.
Also USSR was driven by a materialist philosophy especially Lenin’s version of Marx. Which was certainly not what Plato had in mind. Lenin wrote how much he deplored people like Kant I am sure that extends to Plato.
So the USSR is the worst example, the Catholic and orthodox church who actually believed in Neo-Platonism is the best example of applying the Republic.
@@matthewkopp2391 - Single party "democracy"? Seriously.
I remember that in the best days of the Perestroika there was a last ditch attempt at actually implementing soviet democracy as the martyrs of Kronstadt once demanded with their lives... but the project was aborted by USSR implosion.
A single party regime is a single party regime: there must be diversity of options, open debate, transparency, criticism, etc.
The main reason I'm not Leninist (but still at least partly Marxist) is because that leftist version neo-Platonism is in essence wrong, to the point of I sometimes claiming that Fanny Kaplan was right when she shot Lenin, much as Charlotte Corday was when she killed Marat, as both were leading the revolution astray (at least arguably so).
Democracy belongs to the People, not the party, any revolutionary party is there to serve the People (and the Revolution), not to usurp them. A single party regime is a tyranny of the philosophers (some philosophers at least) much as Plato dreamed it. Nothing ever got so close to Plato's ideal as the Bolshevik produce: although Cromwell was on that line too, he could never constitute his rule of the enlightened, Lenin did... the product was Stalin.
You could say: what about the twin party system of the USA? And I'd reply: that's an oligarchy or plutocracy, there's nothing enlightened about the elites that rule the USA except the gilded shine of their greed maybe. That is what makes the USSR model superior in spite of its totalitarianism (which makes it inferior in the orthogonal coordinates however).
Luxemburg had definitely some good insights in her criticism (although she totally missed the point re. oppressed nations, where Lenin was clearly more correct) but Rosa did not succeed, so she remains a second tier reference. Subsequent 20th century successful revolutions followed invariably the Bolshevik "enlightened dictatorship" model, for the good and for the bad. This was probably determined by the low development of Capitalism and thus also the proletariat in their respective contexts (invariably peripheral and underdeveloped), where it served however as nationalist or anti-colonialist force.
The Christian and Muslim neo-Platonisms are always unfinished wannabes: they never establish, except maybe for proto-communist heretics like Savonarola anything like the rule of the philosophers, they always go for Plato's less ideal options: timocracy and oligarchy, i.e. old school warlordism. That's the deep and terribly tragic for us all contradiction of fascism, which IMO began with the Constantinian Shift, with the establishment of the Christian Church as totalitarian (oligarchist) single party in the Roman Empire. Previously Rome had been a mere military dicttorship, without totalitarianism, without a single party with a political commissary in every village and neighborhood (priests) controlling every single thought of every single person. Then we were knee deep into what can only be described as fascism (with a "proto-" caveat if you wish) and that lasted for more than 1000 years, and still lingers somewhat.
However it was not a rule by the philosophers: philosophy itself was almost banned.
I've been trying to make sense of my mystic roots for so long, and this helps quite a bit. I took a lot of notes. Thank you!
Great video. Thanks. ❤
Excellent video. A good follow up would be how advaita vedant and neoplatonism converge in most principles.
They don't.
Very good video, thank you!
Can someone tell me what the image at 31:17 is? I find myself utterly gobsmacked by it.
Hi Filip, I wanted to thank you for producing this informative video. I have recently finished reading works by Pierre Hadot and Dominic J. O'Meara, in conjunction with corresponding readings of the Enneads. The purpose is, for myself, to see and comprehend the undeniable link between many of the earlier Church Fathers and Neoplatonism. As I now read, Augustine, Aquinas, and works similar to V. Lossky, these connections seem to jump off of the printed page into immediate recognition. Very satisfying indeed. I'll see what other presentations you have that aligns with my study.
Great video thank you. Do you happen to have the title/artist of the piece at 26:58? Thanks again, subscribed
incredible video. the concept of all things coming from and returning to God is echoed in Vedic philosophy. do we know about any influence of far Eastern thought on Platonism?
Love your channel ❤
Filip, can you please expound on the similarities b/n Athanasius of Alexandria teachings and neo-platonism? as an
ex-ethiopian orthodox christian, which is a sister church of the coptic-orthodox church, I'm quite interested.
Great video. Thanks.