And so we come to the (almost) final video of 2018. I want to say a special thank you my patrons, and a big thanks to all of you who have stuck with me thus far. I will be taking a break till January, and I intend to work on the On Writing book (2018 edition)! It'll have extra thoughts in footnotes, a detailed appendix, and a little bit of *exclusive content*. I shall let you all know when it is available. So, until then, Merry Christmas, don't forget those who have none, and share some love! All Hail Supreme Leader Mishka, ~ Tim
I feel called out. Okay. Fruitcake is good when prepared correctly. I find it tastes like a mixture between cinnamon bread and rasins. When making it you travel a fine line between making a fruitbrick and a fruit puddle. You just have never had a good fruitcake.
Happy Yule , And fruitcake is extraordinary really sweet and sugary and I love sweet and sugary and it's moist so I actually don't have to chew it too much.... I wouldn't say it's bad but I definitely couldn't eat it all the time. And I think is a avatar would to go tyrannical, it would be to have peace. By removing the freedoms of others.
About light Vs Dark In order to see anything the lights and shades of dark needs to be both present Without light the room is completly dark and you can't see anything Without Darnkness theinfinite ammount of light your eyballs would be burned balance of both is needed to see
I think what makes an avatar inherently “good” is that in order to master all four elements you have to understand the perspective of every nation. And be willing to learn from people who think differently than you. The wisdom of the avatar is from understanding others.
Emma Herzig yes or there would have to be a scenario set up where they learn all the elements with out traveling kind of like Korra did, before she left the south pole to learn air
@@emmazig That'd perfectly set up how they could potentially lose, if a story is made. Which I'd love to see. 4 main characters, each a different bender, working together to defeat an evil Avatar. Could even explore alternative bending via learning from each other. IIRC, Lightning bending is kind of "Water bending done by a fire bender", for example. Thus we could have a sort of twisting to the Avatar's journey to learn all 4 techniques, as our heroes learn from the methods and styles and even philosophies of the other 3 nations.
That wouldn't work because of the cycle tbh. The hundred year war was started by Sozin after Roku's death (because he was the avatar). Roku was obviously born of Fire Nation decent. Even if Sozin still started the war with Roku completely out of the story Sozin would've had to kill Ang, find the next two Avatar born and kill them
King-Of-Ruin It’s still quiet possible, say Aang died, the water one was killed in a freak penguin sliding accident and that the earth one was killed by the Fire Nation. Voila, you have a Avatar who has to struggle with the slightly facist fire nation indoctrination and how they are their own country’s worst fear.
King-Of-Ruin it was more of a ‘what if’ statement Like let’s say Roku was originally a earth bender and only knew Sozin in the same way Aang knew Bumi Then everything would play out the same and when Roku dies the next avatar would be born into the Fire nation during the start of the war
@@Chrosteellium FINALLY what if X was the avatar scenario, how about instead of a char being part of X nation how about a what if X char was the avatar!!!! I think ty lee would of made an amazing avatar, yes she can't bend but that doesn't stop ppl from getting bending we have seen it happen with zaheer and others getting airbending. Double posting
“The Avatar must maintain the balance.” “Both Raava and Vaatu are essential for survival of the world, both being important.” What if the world was absolutely ordered and peaceful, and the Avatar brought chaos to restore the balance to a more middle-ground?
@@noahdmnc Its because the writers didn't care about or understand eastern philosophy, this is a fucking Jesus and Satan plot if I have ever read one. And I read the lion the witch and the wardrobe.
I want to watch that and see how the world has to fight a villain who is overpowered and thinks he is doing the right thing, but he clearly is not. Also there are many avatars could have a villainous traits are not villains.
I think a earth avatar growing up an orphan and doing morally questionable things to survive finds out he is the avatar first tries to get a better position in life but gets dragged into politics in a world where the avatar is kind of overshadowed or considered a relic perhaps due to the technological advancements or long term peace between the four nations
Evil avatar wouldn't be overpowered at all, his/her connection with previous avatar would be really weak, and make her/him unable to enter avatar mode, avatar without avatar mode is just a bender with 4 elements honestly, put him/her in a ring against 4 bender then he/her probably will loose easily.
I would love a morally confused avatar. Or rather morally indifferent. They don’t really care for either. They just do what they need to survive. Think Toph when they first met her. She was very indifferent to the worlds entire situation.
*Ozai was a good guy.* 1 - Though the man banished his son zuko he ended up giving him supplies that lasted two years (731 days maximum depending on if their was a leap year or not) and it continued to last for most of the Winter book. Zuko also had enough money to pay the engineers at Zhao's base/territory who repaired his vehicle. 2 - He genuinely was proud of Zuko when he was told a story of him killing the avatar in ba sing se. He hugged his son and helped him up. Even letting him speak in war councils & meeting's. He valued the opinion of zuko & considered him as relevant as Azula. 3 - Ozai saved Zuko from Azula who was chasing him in childhood (is depicted in a painting/portrait which zuko remembers a couple of time's in the series). 4 - Ozai saved Zuko again during his childhood (mentioned by the man himself in a comic named "The Promise" it was on a beach prior to when Lu Ten ever died). 5 - Ozai could have put an end to Ursa's life but he allowed her to remain alive and choose to let her go back to her village, meet her parents and live her life with Ikem, he set his love free & still bravely takes the hatred of his son even though it was all Ursas fault Ozai never blamed her. 6 - Ozai hired a yuyan archer to slay Ikem, but he failed, then instead of punishing or firing the archer ozai gave him permission to get a better job in a private/independent group/organization called "The Rough Rhinos" who ended up being friends of his brother Iroh. This nameless archer got a relationship with iroh, a good job, a identity because of a great human being like Ozai. 7 - The reason he asked Azulon to revoke the birthrights of Iroh is because Ozai knew his brother better than everyone and wanted him to be happier. He understood that after LuTen's death prince Iroh would not be able to rule properly or take up his responsibilities very soon. It would be too much stress for his brother so Ozai solved irohs problem by making a request. 8 - Ozai encouraged and guided Azula in her life, helping her in her problems, giving her the love that her slut of a mother would never give to her. 9 - He did not discriminate against any race, species or gender. Ozai never judges people based on their looks. He judge's them based on merit instead. Which is why Ozai banished his son zuko cause he lacked merit. He allowed women to serve as warriors, guards and soldier's. 10 - Ozai also encouraged Zuko to hit him during their agni kai duel, but zuko refused, if he had followed the order and hit ozai then it is very likely that zuko wouldn't have been banished and instead would still be allowed to stay in the palace despite having a scar and not need to capture a avatar or kill one to go back home. 11 - Ozai gave Zhao many promotions despite his failure, he was the best boss basically, giving his workers many chances and their salary would be raised. He is the nicest person to work for. Ozai let people like admiral chan go to islands for a paid vacation. 12 - Ozai had several chances to kill his beloved brother Iroh (the fat fugck was in prison, helpless) but he was merciful, resistant and cared about his life, he forgave iroh for his crimes and sins and let him have two square meals every day & training equipment in jail. Ozai probably had that young female guard hired to serve Iroh in the prison cause he wanted his brother to be happy. He also probably encouraged his brother to marry again after Lu Tens mom died but Iroh was too stubborn, stupid, ignorant and needed an excuse/pretext for hating his younger, taller, handsome brother.
@@kagamiuchihathebeast5862 you are forgetting the fact that 1 - He gave zuko a permanent scar on his eye because he spoke out of turn ONCE. 2 - He tried to kill zuko with lightning on day of black sun.
When used for ill, Peace becomes tyranny. When used for good, Chaos becomes rebellion. Peace within the heart can lead to tranquility, but also stagnation and apathy. Chaos in the heart can lead to impulsiveness, but also creativity and growth.
@jocaguz18 actually it doesn't have to be, oppression can just be the limiting of information in or out of a specific group of people oppression isn't inherently _physically_ violent
I've heard one interesting take that the next Avatar after Korra should actually be a pair of twins: One holding Raava's spirit, the other holding Vaatu's after its inevitable rebirth. We could see not only how the "Dark Avatar" has to reconcile Vaatu's twisted ideology and reform it into what it should be, a force to bring freedom, creativity and passion into the world but also how the "Light Avatar" has to reconcile the stagnancy, tyranny and dogma the previous Avatars influenced by Raava wrought. I dunno, maybe a concept to see hypothetically?
I have thought about this. I think Vaatu would re-emerge in the avatar and the new avatar would have to find true balance in themselves with both spirits inside them. Maybe since Vaatu took the past lives from the avatar he can give them back?
Question, would both avatars follows the same cycle (water>earth>fire>air) or would the "dark avatar" cycle be the "opposite" or "opposing" bending (if light avatar is a water bender, then dark avatar is a fire bender) or would a "dark avatar" not follow any cycle as vaatu is chaos
@@sonictacocat Hard to say, I'd also speculate that since Vaatu never bothered to approach each individual dragon turtle to give each element the "Dark Avatar" may only be able to bend water and earth: The former from Unalaqs spirit and the latter from the new Avatar. This could either mean the "Dark Avatar Cycle" would only be just yo-yoing from water to earth or it'd constantly be looking for airbending or firebending children to be born to try and complete the cycle.
@@TheSpearkan would it not be only water, because Kora’s Uncle was only a water bender. So it would probably just swap between the north and south pole.
I always felt that, if they ever made a third series, it should explore what it would be like for a sibling of the Avatar, or if it's even possible for an Avatar to have siblings.
+Cool Infinity Maybe a story where the avatar actually questions the entire function of the white lotus would be interesting. To be honest the whole Red lotus idea could have been a brilliant way to have a more nuanced conflict beyond simply fighting a particular nation. Or how the red lotus were more or less just the "bad guys".
The JuanTrueKaiser My read on them is the White Lotus are essentially the Avatar universe's equivalent of the Knights Templar. Skeletons in their closet and splinter groups with nefarious aims were an inevitability, and what made them overall force of good was a combination of their full scope being secret even from one another making it hard to subvert the order, and there being several people of incredibly strong moral fiber holding positions of leadership. Gyatso, was the Grand Master of the order during Aang's childhood, and several people Gyatso took Aang to meet were later initiated into the order. Iroh was Grand Master of the order during the events of the Series. This only really came into play when he issued the call to arms... But I digress. The order is fully capable of producing evil effects and even being misguided in good endeavors, such as how they essentially screw the pooch with Korra's upbringing and training. This was partly Katara's doing, as she had an undue influence on the order's activities. How could they have not predicted the conflict of interests there...
@@MogofWar Where the Order of the White Lotus actually came from would also be an interesting idea for some side series or comic. I could their rise coinciding with particular political developments centuries or even millennia ago, shaping how they could have gone from a public to secret organization. Or maybe they did some terrible things in the past against the avatar. Who knows.
@Jay Well yeah, realistically the Aang could probably destroy Toph. But then again, Toph was highly skilled and extremely powerful, possibly one of the greatest Earthbenders *ever.* That's not to say Aang isn't powerful too. My main point is that Toph was probably one of the most powerful benders of her time in her prime, besides maybe Yakone and Aang.
The battle to maintain balance--and restore peace, you mean? Yin and Yang always fight, but one can't exist without the other. The equilibrium of their fight means that everything stays still and quiet. Peaceful.
@@aliza_h that's an interesting take on it! I hadn't considered it that way to be fair. I'm still not fond of the depiction of Yin and Yang through the hero/villain lens the show gave Raava and Vaatu (which was more my intention above) but I'll admit I don't know the philosophies intimately
I remember thinking about this when Iroh told Zuko that the avatar has to get rid of Ozai or else history will see the event as more royal bloodshed. The avatar is an absolute say in a lot of decisions in their world, it would only be natural for some of them to take advantage of their authority
Are you saying, there is a problem with the Dai Li. Why they give free vacation to Lake Laogai, so they can be bad. But seriously for a moment, I wouldnt say the Dai Li is not inherently evil, they was slowly twisted over time, and became more secret police, than just protectores of cultur.
nah raava is better, reason why she was holding vantu of for centuries then beat vantuu again(wan). I think she would probably become weaker and obv evil
@Mr.Supreme Half the point of the video seemed to be one of "Evil is based on perspective" and from the perspective of say the loving people of the Earth Kingdom, killing him was an evil act to the point a group still celebrated her demise.
My friend wrote a pretty cool scenario for a evil Avatar where the Avatar got fed up with technology advancing and felt it took away the specialty of bending, feeling like bending is now a unimpressive background aspect in the world so they team up with a dark spirit to follow a path of destruction to revert the world back to a state where bending mattered again (it takes place after tLoK)
I'd like to imagine this happens a few times, which might explain why in 10000 years since Wan the world is somewhat still developing Like at some point humans reached a point of advancement and spirits or plain war pushes humanity a few thousand years to develop again from scratch
Ok, like everybody else, I know "Legend of Kora" doesn't reach the level of greatness this show reached (which is why I stoped watching it at the start of the second half of season 2). However, I do think it has potential, so I'm working on my own headcanon for it. The main aspect I seek to fix right now ? The big villain of the entire show. A twisted nihilistic manipulative avatar who attempts to return to the world of the living. Now here's the problem. That avatar's alignement is chaotic evil. But I don't know what her plan should be for both the spiritual and material world. So, for anyone here who is a fan of Lovecraftian horror, has played "KOTOR 2" and has seen/read both "Bird Box" and "Anhilation", what do you think her end goal should be ?
@@JabamiLain Perhaps she could be trying to merge the two, making death functionally impossible, and resulting in people growing so old and weak (if they were alive before the merge), that they can do nothing to stop the once-dead (People who were dead at the time of the merge) from ruling with an iron fist
@@yellowflametree4238 I don't think so. If you look at our own history, technology only really exploded some hundred years ago, but human civilization is waaaay older.
@@hotlinesanzensekai7084 yea but from what we can tell from wans time period when he died it should of reached some what modern tech in what 500 hundred or so years the weren't cavemen there were closer to 1500 ce China than spear chucking at mammoth cavemen
Pretty sure Kyoshi’s whole back story was thievery and assassination and stuff, and upon becoming a fully realized Avatar never fully turned away from it.
So, you know fruitcake? I like fruitcake. I'll defend it. It needs to be made properly - go light on the molasses, make sure the candied fruits are fresh, not stale, and consider using a recipe that makes for a lighter and fluffier batter - but I do find it delicious when someone has put sincere effort into baking it. There. Was that a good break from everyone in the comment section being a philosopher? ;) Heh heh. Have a wonderful day. ...I won't even put an adage after that statement, either. Cheers!
I love this video, because the good and evil is the problem I had with LoK. I feel like if there was way too much peace, there would an avatar that would cause chaos, not necessarily cartoonish villain evil, but to create disorder, which is how avatar Kuruk was in a sense. The reason why no immensely chaotic avatar exists is probably because a world completely at peace is not probable, especially with the nature of humans.
Yangchen made a spiritual mess which Kuruk sorted out. Roku and Kyoshi caused problems that Aang had to solve, and after that, Aang left his and left some of Roku for Korra to solve. Your theory is coherent to me.
The concept of "Yin" and "Yang" is not about good and evil (as western media tends to say). It is simply about 2 sides of the same coin (be they objectively good or bad). Both of which need to be in balance for harmony to exist.
Hm I thought of Katara and Azula as some Yin and Yang. The warm and friendly water bender with the hidden dark side represented by her hatred for the murderer of her mother and her blood bending and Azula as the not so friendly fire bender with some hints, that there is still good in her, that the Emperor could not destroy. Though in terms of balance I´d say Azula needs a bit fine tuning.
Kinda reminds me why the hell sometimes God is evil to me... Im natrually a really lucky person, mostly luck is on my side along with intuvition. But i sometimes gotta remind myself that every good has bad in it.
Unalaq would’ve needed to gain all the elements from the lion turtles and then fuse with Vaatu during Harmonic Convergence to make it permanent and allow for more dark avatars. But Harmonic Convergence isn’t for another 10,000 years and no one knows where the lion turtles are so unless there’s some other way, it’s not happening any time soon.
@@13zomi in theory, the avatar can energy bend them extra elements if my understanding of that is correct. Probably easier than finding multiple lion turtles. They still wouldn't reincarnate though
Well, chaos and peace are still opposites.... Though I suppose not quite as fully opposed as peace and conflict or order and chaos. Still. Things can be orderly but not at peace. I think it's going with the idea of being at peace vs being conflicted or chaotic.
@@plzletmebefrank I guess it's the context of everything that makes me think she represents order and he represents chaos. If that makes more sense? But instead she is peace and he is chaos which makes slightly less sense to me. The opposite of chaos is order...
@@sparten316 I think it's because the story was being told by an unreliable narrator, meaning that what we see is not what literally happened, it's just a memory. In that view, the sudden outburst of dangerous spirits makes more sense, because that's what it felt like for the Wan and ms. spirit.
Aang: "I've only had to use violence for necessary defence." Me: "what about all those fire nation soldiers who were on the boats you sunk that mysteriously never resurfaced."
That's what makes avatar a complex character They have so much power hence their decisions could lead to consequences beyond their control Roku leaving sozin alive lead to his own demise Kyoshi would have killed sozin
Roku was going to die on the volcano. Sozin being there just delayed it. According to the novels, Kyoshi gave chances and didn't start with killing. So it makes sense that if she was best friends with Sozin, she'd give him a chance like Roku did.
If Aang had died when the war began, and then the fire nation wiped out the water tribe and earth nation Avatars over the course of the 100 year war. It's possible that either Zuko or Azula would have been the Avatar.
Well if the avatar is the one who's job is to bring balance to the 4 nations, then would the avatar at least notice the fire nation's or Dai Li's ideology or something. Would it be a matter of time if the destiny of the avatar's have changed? Like what happened to Zuko, (although not the avatar) his destiny changed from capturing the avatar for the fire nation into helping the avatar bring peace to the 4 nations?
More terrifying theory: Raava can tell whether someone will be a good avatar or not while they're in the womb. Raava then chooses an appropriate host to carry out her will. There is no free will in the world of Avatar. No will... but Raava's.
Sure, if that was true you really think out of all waterbenders Korra would've been the best choice. She's not necessarily bad as the Avatar but there's obvious better choices besides her.
Raava doesn't choose a host. She is bonded with Wan's spirit. This is why she explicitly says " we will be together for all of YOUR lifetimes" . Raava follows the wan reincarnation line.
I've always believed that the rebirth of the avatar isn't instant and that ravaa will find an appropriate host with loving parents/a good character rather than randomised incarnation
I think the issue is that in these shows we are always led to take an automatic agreement with what a seemingly benevolent character says is true even if they are subjectively biased towards their own view. The Light sprit Raava claims she is "Light & Peace" when in actuality she more represents "Light & Order", I actually think she is misleading us as she's asserting that her way is infact the correct way to be for no other reason than that she says so. She also can't truly represent Peace because she is literally in a perpetual adversarial relationship of war against the Chaos spirit Vaatu.
Also she's always angry XD I remember laughing so hard when the friend I was watching the show with told me that for the spirit of peace, she though she was pretty aggressive and spiteful XD
Maybe that’s the point people are missing, that even these spirits that believe these things about themselves are flawed in their logic and believe themselves to be far more objective than they actually are
Raava was also apparently fine with that one Water Tribe Avatar hunting down and trying to kill Koh for purely personal reasons. I don't think a bridge between the human and spirit worlds should be running around trying to kill spirits, but hey, the whole Raava-twist doesn't make sense anyway.
So I started watching you about 6 months ago. Your analysis and articulation of the content you present is so thought provoking! Just got my “a wizard did it!” Shirt and everyone thinks it’s awesome. Thanks for what you’re doing on here Tim!
Yep. I hate it when they make things so binary by saying "this is good and this is bad." Having the blurring line and spectrum makes things interesting and realistic. The concept of Raava and Vaatu is fine, but their execution was pretty horrible due to how binary they were and how they impacted the story. It would have been much better if they were "light and dark" but not necessarily "good and evil" -- just different takes on the same idea and, like the yin and yang they present, had more of each other inside of themselves. Also, tying the Avatar specifically to Raava instead of the Avatar being neutral and a force of just spirits in general, really made it seem like there is no true balance in the Avatar world. The whole idea of the Avatar world is about balance. But when the Avatar is inherently "good" that throws out the balance when there isn't an counterpart save for once every 10,000 years or whatever mumbo jumbo they made up. Seems like just having the Avatar be neutral and be shaped by their surroundings would have been much more interesting and useful commentary on life and reality.
Not to mention they got the Yin-Yang thing completely wrong. Yin, the feminine, is dark, passive, negative, etc. Yang, the masculine, is light, active, positive, etc.
I mean the original avatar had a pretty low budget and was a nickolodean kid's show, but they did a great job anyway. They could only get so morally grey when the show's main audience was kids originally.
Timothy Bell ... no. That’s been a thing since way before Disney in a lot of Star Wars media. Disney didn’t invent the idea of trying to strike a balance, they’re just more consistent about it than the Expanded Universe.
Meh, Vaatu was more evil from a rational, human POV. Raava's goals seem good to us because they allow human civilization to grow and prosper. Raava also became a human sympathizer. Conversely, Vaatu's influence creates a world of wild, unthinking beasts, an ever-spreading jungle of survival of the fittest, where humans are laughably outmatched. Vaatu also views humans as insects and pawns. In my Avatar fanon, my character, the amnesiac Sun Spirit in human form, ends up living the life of a human, and ends up sympathizing with humans to a far greater degree than Raava: he ends up becoming a hardcore human supremacist, and begins to view spiritual intrusion in human affairs to be an affront to humanity, and spirits themselves as interloping alien colonizers. In his view, the Material World is the property of humans to do with as they see fit. He stubbornly maintains this view even after regaining his memories.
If you look at Raava and Vaatu in accordance to the DnD alignment system, Ravaa is Lawful and Vaatu is Chaotic. Theoretically speaking, Ravaa could very easily be riencarnated into a Lawful Evil Avatar..
This is true but in the avatar world it takes a lot to kill someone like the fire lord ozie gave Zuni a scar just a scar he is the best fire bender in the avatar series so I bet if I was in avatar I could live from a 20 feet fall with of course broken bones prob not coma
Does that mean the writers screwed up when finding VA's for Vaatu and Raava? (because it is just the voices, nothing about the kite spirits lean in either direction gender wise)
Raava is lawful neutral Vaatu is chaotic neutral I hope the next series makes that notion, think about it a scene where Vaatu is speaking about "freedom"
The worst thing in Korra was the duality thing. Don't get me wrong. I liked the series, but that Raava-Vaatu thing was like Midichlorians. Didn't need explaining and made things less interesting
@@and8091 we both know you got that information from an extended universe thing and not the moive midichlorians were introduced in and the fact that you had to proves the original poster right because someone else came to the same conclusion and felt the need to add more context to fix midichlorians
I kinda figured it was a story told with a spin... namely Wan's perspective. He bonded with Raava, so of course to him she was the "good" half. In the end Korra didn't entirely take Wan's side. She left the spirit world and the material world connected, a more chaotic state of affairs. She also reformed the bond without Vaatu stuck in the tree, meaning the chaos element will necessarily re-emerge within the avatar spirit itself, and she has essentially bonded all future avatars with them both!
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
@@rykerhoppe9245 Ryker Hoppe Grey Jedi are the way forward I'd say. The Jedi are dogmatic fools, and the Sith are self-obsessed madmen. The middle ground must be found, one wherein passion is allowed, while tempered with reason and inner peace; wherein power is not shied away from, yet seen as a tool, not a goal in and of itself: For else, you lose all power, as power gains control over you, while you madly pursue the acquisition of more of it. Wherein love and empathy are key; wherein altruism is promoted, but not to the point of self-destruction or the demonizing of self-worth. Wherein knowledge is not hoarded, but freely spread. Wherein order is not used as an excuse for tyranny and the destruction of freedom - a tendency both Sith and Jedi have.
My theory is this. (For this theory assume that one or the other is "in charge" when I talk about them) Raava as the spirit of peace and light would do whatever it takes to maintain peace in the world. At the end of Avatar Wan's life we see that he was involved with some sort of battle, probably a war. If peace meant taking over the world and enforcing peace then that's what would happen if she had the means to do so (which the avatar just might depending on the times). She is not inherently good, good does not matter to her, so long as peace and order are enforced. Vaatu on the other hand, is the spirit of chaos and darkness, and would do whatever it took to get rid of order. He's an anarchist, he's not evil, he just hates it when rules try to tie him down. He doesn't make the spirits evil, we saw that Bumi was able to get along with a dark spirit after all by playing his flute. That being said, the reason the dark spirits might attack humans is because humans have taken over their homes. During Avatar Wan's life we see an argument take place between the humans and the spirits, the spirits are angry because the humans are trying to take their homes away from them and as they get angry at that thought they start to turn dark. They aren't evil, they're just protecting what's theirs, and if anything the humans are the evil ones in that scenario. So bottom line, while Raava might be Light and Peace, this does not make her good, as peace could also be achieved through control and force. And while Vaatu might be the spirit of Darkness and Chaos, this does not make him evil, as chaos can simply refer to a lack of order, or can be used to protect what one cares about (such as the case of the spirits defending their homes).
@Digicraftmon the Crystal Gem yeah, I was mainly going for the "no one controlling him" part. Anarchist seemed like the best fitting at the time since governments were brought up in the video and my comment.
Anime Otaku is it true peace tho, if it’s forced? how could humans be at peace without individual freedom. i would argue that they would feel restrained and/or imprisoned and therefore lack true inner peace. but well thats just my opinion:)
You know how we could’ve fixed Raava and Vaatu? Draw them similarly, same color palette, maybe the symbols are different.. and give them the same voice. Good and Evil are similar but never truly done tight visually, it’s often confused with one another, and that;s why I think this idea comes up close with the meaning of good and evil.
One thing: Raava intentionally fought Vaatu *and stated it was in order to keep balance.* This shows that she was more focused on balance than peace by any means necessary.
Light can be blinding, while Darkness often causes hightened awareness. Light can burn / hurt people if it's too intense, while Darkness in small doses is good for ones mental health. Yes, Darkness is often associated with evil, loneliness, & scary things. That isn't the extent of what Darkness means, though, especially when tied in with the concept of Chaos.
Hmmm, I think that because it's a reincarnation cycle. If the avatar is at the core the same person every time, an extraordinary event would prob need to occur for them to turn evil. Because in general the avatar prob hasn't been evil because the first avatar was not and had strong drive and motivation.
L Jeans I think you need to look at Avatar Wan's life cycle more closely. He was the 1st Avatar & he was not a source of peace & order at his core... before merging with Raava. However, Raava, being the spirit of Peace & Order / Light is not inherently 'good'. This was lost on the show creators for The Legend of Korra, though. Hello Future Me is absolutely right in this. Even in TLOK this Yin-Yang symbolism is apparent, although poorly represented. On a side note, I miss Mishka.
@@amyliaclenny1866 Hm, that's true but in his prime BEFORE he met Rasja, he had a general moral compass and understanding of the world around him. Plus even if his intentions were generally gray he was not EVIL even before Rasja.
In Egypt the color “black”,often associated with darkness in western culture, is considered a good thing as it meant the fertile soil around the Nile river.
...Aang's whole journey was to learn the power needed so he could depose the leader of an entire nation and (eventually) put someone more in line with his own way of thinking on the throne. So~ yeah...
That leader he deposed was going to destroy a whole nation to crush the spirits of anyone that might challenge him in the future and even when the whole world including past Avatars told Aang to kill him Aang found another way to end the fighting.
Yeah, but Ozai was going to essentially carpet bomb the biggest continent on the planet, thus making 75% of the world uninhabitable, so I'll give Aang a pass. Ozai's plan kind of made no sense if he wanted to actually reap the benefits of winning the war. There's no point of winning if you're going to destroy the place you were fighting over in the first place. But then again, he's an insane maniac voiced by Joker, so I guess it works for his character.
Well Aang didn’t know he was the avatar until he was 12. If someone became evil before they learned that they were the avatar, they pass the barrier. Raava is a separate entity from the avatar. They’re just connected.
Then what’s to stop me from saying that serial killers can do what they do because their way of living is their perspective and they are the heroes of their story?
okay so this is just my weird imagination "so avatar, how will you maintain balance?" future avatar: I will kill everyone in this -room- world and then myself "uh that's not-" future avatar: no life = no suffering
@@ThyFloorestFloor But it would be cool if being an Air bender gave her access it sensing the movement of the air around her letting her see even in the air.
@Mimi Khas well, for one, I do NOT like it. Like, at all. The introduction of those 2 spirits also messes with the timeline, and retcons the "Avatar Statue" chamber. Because when you average out that every Avatar gets to be around 100 years (Kyoshi and Aang were older, but then there were others who didn't even get to 40) that makes it so that only a 100 Avatars existed before Korra. And there are wayyy more than a 100 statues in there. What i'm trying to show here is that they tried to explain the magic system. And that almost ALWAYS ruins that very magic system they try to explain (the Force in the prequels for example). And also, the Avatar represents balance. Meaning he is both the ying and the yang. Not only one of the 2. Yet in Korra they show that the spirit of light and order (but let's be honest they were basically good vs evil) joins the Avatar, and the spirit of chaos and darkness is locked away, causing an imbalance. If they wanted to give us an Avatar Spirit back story, then they should've gone a different route. Have Wan be the guy to try and tell people that not all spirits are bad, and have a spirit try and convince the other spirits that not all humans are bad. You can they have the same arc up until the harmonic convergence fight. So, instead of Raava and Wan vs Vaatu, make it the spirits vs humans, with Wan and his spirit friend in the middle. They realise they aren't powerfull enough on their own, so they use the portals to merge together, become the first Avatar, and be a symbol of peace between spirits and humans (therefore a 'bridge' between the 2 worlds) All that the Raava/Vaatu subplot does is redcon half of the Avatar history and fundamentaly ruin the concept of an Avatar itself.
@@darkozosel9114 The Avatar Is balance, but Is this real? If you think, the Avatar is always just the good, for example, Zuko, Zuko have yo decide, His good family, avatar, ir vas family, His father, i think it's really obvious that the Avatar always try or Is slightly oriented yo the "good" the peace
On the note of a spirit of peace being evil, I'm reminded of MLK's Letter From Birmingham Jail, "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice." The idea of a positive and negative peace, that peace can be a force of oppression that silences the oppressed, is reminiscent of the stuff you posit in your video.
The avatar could definitely be evil. Remember in the episode “The desert” when aang was lost in his rage? He was doing things opposed to what the monks taught him and used violence because he felt angry. 🤯
MALAAHKYA 500 good point. But i think the avatar will always naturally gravitate to do good as appose to evil because he or she is the embodiment of a spirit of light. So no matter how much that avatar fall of his path, he/she will always find their way back due to that spirit. Like law of attraction u know?
Aang says that he refuses to kill, but are we just forgetting that at the end of season 1 he destroyed hundreds of fire nation ships whilst in the Avatar state?
The ocean spirit didnt kill them, it trapped them in the fog of lost souls where they imprison in thier darkest memories. A fate worst than death. Thats what happened to Zhao.
They should start the Avatar back up, but in a time where the evil spirit has escaped and fuses with a new person to create a dark avatar! Then the story could take off from there. There would be countless possibilities!
Great video as always, Tim! It was clearly thought out and it makes sense; you always do a great job of explaining stuff. I've never cared for LoK too much, but I appreciate that people like you don't just disregard it, because technically it is canon. You used it in a way that supported your claims and it did so in a great way!Thank you for the videos and your insight this year. I found your channel only this year, but it's quickly become my favorite. If I had my own credit card/wasn't underage, I'd totally support you on Patreon. I'd just like to say that you're someone I look up to, not just as a great TH-camr, but a great person. Keep up the good work! My cats and I will continue worshipping Mishka! I hope you have a merry Christmas! Here's to 2019 being the best year yet! (HTTYD 3 and the On Writing book, whoop whoop!) -Landrey P.S. I've never eaten fruitcake so I've yet to decide its fate...
Think of it less Good/Evil and more Order/Chaos. The reason Aang didn't side wit hthe fire nation's totalitarian order is it was throwing the world out of balance. Maybe if the fire nation had succeeded and we got an avatar raised in the fire nation off fire nation propaganda 'they are simply making all parts closer knit and progressing humanity. Some suffering is justifiable so long as the greater whole progresses.' Look at Kyoshi's founding of a secretive above the law order tasked specifically with preserving cultural heritage that ended up 'inviting' people to lake lao gai all to preserve the outward appearances of harmony and an ordered existance.
So, the thing about Rava and Vatu. When Vatu is defeated, the world becomes significantly more chaotic, which tells us very directly that it's not his presence that spreads chaos.
Fruits on sweet pastries was always accepted in the culinary world. Remember the strawberries on the wedding cake? The blueberry pie? On the other hand, putting pineapple bits on pizza is blasphemous. The only fruits that should be allowed on pizza are tomatoes and peppers.
It is worth noting that the idea of Light as Good and Darkness as Evil is a Manichean concept that while heavily influential in the west did not gain nearly as much cultural traction to the east of it's native Iran. So when talking about the heavily East Asian influenced series these concepts should not really have a moral element. Of course regardless of what the intent might be Raava and Vaatu do play into these Manichean stereotypes. So If they were not supposed to be interpreted as moral concepts it is a failure of execution as the primary audience of this show comes from a Western Background. (Am I spelling Manichean right? Autocorrect keeps changing it but I couls have sworn there was only one m.)
@Mullerornis You make a good point. And I do not claim to be an expert in Persian Studies. But a few notes based on my understanding. First Manicheanism is a branch of Zoroastrianism. Second it is my understanding that it was Mani (the creator of Manicheanism) who really codified the idea of associating Ahura Mazda with Light and Ahriman with Darkness. And while the idea would spread to mainstream Zoroastrianism, pre-Manichean Zoroastrianism didn't really associate darkness with Ahriman. And sources of light such as fire and the sun were considered holy, but do to association with specific Yazata rather than because light was inherently good. The Sun with Mithra, and I can't remember the name of the Yazata of fire. It is also worth noting that in mainstream Zoroastrianism Water was just as highly regarded as fire. Once again do in large part to association with a particularly important Yazata: Anahita.
@Mullerornis Yeah I think I may have communicated my ideas poorly here, sorry. I did not mean to imply that Manichaeism was in compliance with Zoroastrian orthodoxy.The problem here is there isn't really a good umbrella term, as far as I know, for religions descended from the teachings of Zoroaster. No equivalent of the term Abrahamic Religion. Manichean practices were indeed very different from Zoroatrian practices. Also just as a point of clarity for everyone since I've apparently been unclear in explaining some of my thoughts. I am not saying that dualistic Good and Evil is a Manichean concepts. That as you said does go back as far as original Zoroastrianism, if not farther. Rather what I was attributing to Manichaeism was specifically the conflation of Light with Good and Darkness with Evil. Which I brought up because Raava and Vaatu are never referred to as spirits of Good or Evil. But rather Light and Darkness, which some people have interpreted as being Good and Evil. And I just wanted to bring up that there is not a universal metaphorical connection between those concepts.
I think an avatar can be evil if like, let’s say Aang died when the fire nation raided his culture, The next water bender died (Possibly not Korea since born different times) and the earth bender died. That would mean the fire-nation avatar is told that the fire nation is good and helps takeover other nations, would that count as evil?
I swear, I remember reading a while back, before Korra was a thing, that the Avatar was the incarnation of the spirit of the planet itself. Like, Gaia in the flesh or something. This was why the Avatar could master all the elements that were inherent to the planet. Because the Avatar is the planet. Maybe I made that up, but I really think I read it on a website somewhere. In any case, I think it was a much better idea than what the writers ended up going with. Instead, the first Avatar was just some guy with a weird spirit parasite in him who got his bending in a way that involved the spirit, but was ultimately separate from it. It's too messy of a backstory.
by definition the name "avatar" itself fits more what you wrote than what Legend of Korra did. The avatar is supposed to be a wordly manifestation of higher forces. In The last airbender, the avatar is the manifestation of the world's balance, at the crossing of the four forces that are the elements. It never was about peace and chaos, good and evil in the original show. It was about maintening balance between the four inherent forces of the world. And it was FAR better this way
Agreed. And it was far better that this was a natural balancing rather than a random combination of some guy's idea, a spirit who agrees to go along with it, luck, and the lion turtle's cooperation. TLA hints at a time before the Avatar. But that stuff was better left a mystery.
@@kaisawatson "An avatar, a concept in Hinduism that means "descent", is the material appearance or incarnation of a deity on earth. The relative verb to "alight, to make one's appearance" is sometimes used to refer to any guru or revered human being." That is the literal google translation. So the avatar in the show being the human who houses the light spirit Raava still technically fits.
@@nemasisdemarini8339 There is a HUGE difference between the concepts of "incarnation" and "host". In LoK, the avatar is merely a "vessel" for Ravaa, and is nothing special without her. While in atla, aang was an "incarnation" of the balance of the 4 forces of the world (at least before it got retcon by Lok).
when i think of 'light' and 'darkness' i dont think good and evil like most people do myself, light contains hope, order, integrity, and of course heat, darkness is passion, chaos, selfishness, and cold the two both bring something to the world, too much light and everything burns, too much dark and we all turn into blocks of ice, too much hope and we become blind to the evils around us, too much passion and we loose ourselves to baser needs...but still there are those for whome such a life is preferable there are very few things in the world taht can be called objectivly good or evil acts as what is good or evil depends on the colective moral code of your culture.
Makes no sense, metalbending is only a thing as metal has earth particles. That's literally how Toph learns it. Also bloodbending is a thing as blood is biologically mostly water.
Just want to add there already is a canonical evil avatar: Yang-Chen. This goes all the way back to season 2. The reason Kuruk is able to live in peace and casual stoner-mindset, is that Yang-Chen so thoroughly pacified the world that no one dared to declare war for almost 100 years. Her original bio even described her as "ruthless and uuncompromising". A peace which needed to find balance in Chin the Conqueror during Kiyoshi's reign....Kiyoshi who created the Dai Li. Though let's be fair that is more shown as something that got corrupted after 200 years.
Tim: morals vary from nation to nation, like the Fire Nation has strict codes of conduct around loyalty and Bootleg Zuko: MY HONOR! Me: ded *can't breathe* XD
What an interesting theory! I honestly have never thought about this, while it makes total sense! And your arguments are very well made. I love the way you categorized this video into three parts. I have been watching your channel for the past few months and I can say with certainty that I am in love with your content. I love your quirky personality and all the unique theories you present to us, as well as your editing style and your decision to focus on the good, fun parts of the fandoms you look into. I'm very glad to have discovered your channel and I am looking forward to your new content in 2019. Much love from Greece.
I think it means that the avatar while a spirit of good, can technically be a flawed individual. Aanv for example was a selfish person, who put his ideology before the world when he fought Ozai. He did everything he could to cling to the beliefs of his people. Evil, real evil, is the act of malice consciously.
When you were talking about a nazi Avatar, I immediately thought of Kuvira's ideology. Her primary purpose was Order. When the Earth queen was defeated the Earth kingdon was in chaos, so Kuvira stepped up to stop bandit raids and unify the land once again. Well, we know what that led to and that her order was oppression in disguise, forcing people to choose between "peace" and submission or death, but she herself perceived her intentions to be good. I can definitely see an Avatar sharing her ideology if faced with similar circumstances and having a similar character - and if you see Raava as a spirit of order and peace, then wouldn't that be in line with her desposition?
I've been rolling a fanfic idea around my head - a prequel story (of which certain details have since been contradicted by Avatar Wan's backstory, but screw it, I don't care) that would begin with an antagonistic Avatar: essentially a war leader for an aggressive Water Empire (unified global War Tribe with large-scale flood tactics). Story opens with the Avatar being assassinated... and the new avatar being the assassin's newborn son. This is realized years later - both factions want him for their own ends, new avatar runs away, and tries to rebalance the world under the guidance of a Guru, who blames himself for the previous Avatar's fall to darkness. Also, difficulty reaching the Avatar state since new!Avatar naturally has a poor view of his immediate predecessor.
The motive of peace can be used in good or evil ways. Equally so, the motive of chaos can be used in good or evil ways. It all depends on the context of the two.
No, peace is peace. Warping the definition of it isn't peace. True peace means you respect, care for, & include everyone (doing things that benefit everyone). You can't use peace for evil (people warp the definition & claim peace, but, in reality, they're lying/tricking others into following them).
peace (noun) - 1. freedom from disturbance; tranquility. 2. a state or period in which there is no war or a war has ended. What you said peace is, isn't the definition of peace, it's your personal idea of a utopia. The difference being what you said is an ideal, whereas the definition is what's commonly accepted by the general public. Peace through fear and intimidation, or peace through death, or even peace through the end of existence are all still forms of peace, though not forms we need nor want.
Kyoshi didn't say that she would kill him again, she said if it lead to stopping him, she would have killed him. A small distinction but it makes a huge difference. The big thing is that everyone treats her as a person who is kill-crazy, and will stop at nothing to get what she wants. She was trying to make a point, one that I feel goes over most people's heads. If you cause someone's death, it is the same as killing them. So by that logic, if I took your food away, and you starved, it is the same as killing you myself. She wanted Aang to know that he was too caught up in the words themselves to realize that he had actually been killing along his journey already (I will go to war about this if people want to challenge it) and that him saying he won't kill, doesn't make him any less a killer. If he had understood this then he would have had an easier time dealing with Ozai as frankly, he deserved to die much more than all of the soldiers that Aang drowned getting to him, or buried in an avalanche...or concussed in the middle of nowhere and left them for dead. Man is more brutal than he knows because he won't admit it. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
Or Madara more powerful and is forcing his change onto the world
6 ปีที่แล้ว +34
As interesting as an evil Avatar might be, I'd honestly _just_ like to see one good animated fight with a waterbender that has mastered _all_ facets of waterbending. I'll bet money they could pull off one of those sweet 'avatar bubbles' like in the original series' finale, though with water, ice, steam and the like.
I was thinking of running an RPG where the avatar is split between two twins. One with the power to bend all the elements, and one with the wisdom of their past lives, and with the avatar state without the ability to bend. I was planning on having the bender avatar be a villain with a tyrannical quest for power, while one of the players is the knowledge avatar who quests to stop their twin.
how about "twin avatars"? the "avatar of order/raava" (lawfull-any) that want a status quo, law, order the "avatar of chaos/vatuu" (chaotic-any) that wants change, freedom ,oportunity that way you have 2 "earth avatars" and you can have a debate of "freedom/security" with no nesesary evil, or at the very least not by nature.
When you say "Not a happy end", what do you mean exactly? As it is, the ending of the original, and LoK for that matter, are fairly bittersweet. There are multiple notable deaths in each series, and while things are on the upswing in general, there are a number of characters that come out worse for wear.
By not happy, the evil avatar dying? Or so much destruction that defeating the avatar is pyrrhic? Especially since the protagonists know & fear the next incarnation.
SaberToothPortilla maybe it turns out fairly good (in comparison) for the other characters but not the avatar himself. If it's not a prequel, they could even kill him in the avatar state off thus ending the avatar cycle and the series. Or they make the avatar an antagonist and write it from his enemies perspective
Can you imagine if Zuko was the Avatar?? Like if the title referred to Zuko as the Avatar and Aang was the last airbender. Maybe Zuko ran away to hide his ability from his father (or his father trained him to be the ultimate war weapon and hunt down threats like Aang) and Aang was traveling the world to preserve the memory of his people and search for survivors or something then they come together? 🧐🧐🧐
Then Aang wouldn't be alive if he wasn't the Avatar lol he would be dead so there would be no memory to preserve because they don't have an actual airbender alive that could tell them how to preserve the Air Nomad culture?? If Zuko was the Fire Avatar then the Air Nomads would be permanently wiped out.
I always figured the Avatar, being Wan reborn over and over again, was really just different versions of the same person who at their core still held values towards peace and overall goodness. Because of that I doubt they could ever be truly evil, just dangerously misguided. At the end of the day the Avatar isn't an infallible god. As we've seen they're just as capable of making incredibly damaging mistakes due their own biases and relationships just like other human beings, such as Roku not stopping Sozen just because they were friends once. They're just super powered people trying to do the best that they can in the name of being the world peacekeeper. Could they ever be actually evil at heart though? I doubt it, though it would be an interesting storyline if the show ever gets picked up again. Maybe it could be a group of normal people and benders taking down an Avatar who decided taking over was the easiest way for everyone to get along, or even an Avatar reborn after a previous life took over everything taking down this empire? The possibilities for this are endless.
But Wan wasn't an initially good person. He did bad things, and the show showed him doing good deeds immediately after he did the bad deed to force feed viewers into thinking he was actually good at heart. But he was actually just very cocky and overconfident and had a very higher-than-thou look towards other humans. He did eventually outgrow this side of him and went on to become a better person, but the way reincarnations work is that once you are reborn as a normal person, you are a different person with different values and feelings. You will never hold the core values of a past life. That is how it is believed to work.
@@whiffynvm that makes sense but I wonder if Ravaa being part of the avatar makes things different for the avatar. The avatar literally has "peace" within them. They have the memories of the last avatars in the back of their minds.
I think the better exemple was the dai li. Kyoshi created them at a time balance was needed, but the balance they wanted to perpetuate make them evil at some point. They keep order in ba sing se for century, but at the cost of freedom. And when they saw an opportunity to align with a new order they embrace it, even against liberty and the will of the current avatar aang at that Time. And they did not change in 75 years, they are still the one who make order prevail about chaos for the earth kingdom, but its from a bit of chaos that come progress, from a bit of disorder that the world move forward... And i still wonder what they could do in the earth kingdom after the fall of Kuvira. Nothing good i guess...
that is so true, this is also explains korra's wrong in her last say in season 2 where she says avatar wan made a mistake, no he didn't. At that time spirits and humans were at war, that's the reason he locked the spirit portal along with vaatu, bcoz at that time, it was needed to calm the battle between both of them. It's not that korra did something wrong by letting both portals open but she couldn't handle it properly afterwards.
The Dai Li were usurped and corrupted. They followed orders. Each individual Dai Li agent did their job. I'm not saying that they didn't believe that what they were doing was right, just that they didn't come up with the strategies. Under a new command, the Dai Li could have been just like any secret service or police. They could be the KGB, CIA or MI6. They could be Rainbow 6. They could be like Coruscant lower guards and be entirely covered and identity protected and act only as riot police. The possibilities of the Dai Li depend entirely on the state of Ba Sing Se. In a time of ignorance and war, they were tyrannical. As all tyrants are. In a time of peace and freedom, they can be regular everyday people with better training. As all police are. Or they can be in the middle. As all military police are. I love the Dai Li, personally. They're interesting. But fragile and corruptable.
Why all of the cartoon series and TV shows and movies are always about "good guys". For once I would love to see something from the perspective of so called "evil". Not those who want world domination or something, but from the perspective of those villains who actually have a reason to be "evil".
![Zaheer: Why kill the Avatar? - video essay [Avatar The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OWcetuR3Jv0/mqdefault.jpg)
![Zaheer: Why kill the Avatar? - video essay [Avatar The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra]](/img/tr.png)
![What happened to Katara after The Last Airbender? [ Avatar Explained ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JQ_LQ0C4zfY/mqdefault.jpg)
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
![Avatar: A Study in Worldbuilding - the Fire Nation [ The Last Airbender ]](/img/n.gif)
And so we come to the (almost) final video of 2018. I want to say a special thank you my patrons, and a big thanks to all of you who have stuck with me thus far. I will be taking a break till January, and I intend to work on the On Writing book (2018 edition)! It'll have extra thoughts in footnotes, a detailed appendix, and a little bit of *exclusive content*. I shall let you all know when it is available. So, until then, Merry Christmas, don't forget those who have none, and share some love!
All Hail Supreme Leader Mishka,
~ Tim
Hello Future Me love your vids man
Hello Future Me my dad likes fruit cake and I argue with him ever year
I feel called out.
Okay.
Fruitcake is good when prepared correctly. I find it tastes like a mixture between cinnamon bread and rasins. When making it you travel a fine line between making a fruitbrick and a fruit puddle. You just have never had a good fruitcake.
Happy Yule ,
And fruitcake is extraordinary really sweet and sugary and I love sweet and sugary and it's moist so I actually don't have to chew it too much.... I wouldn't say it's bad but I definitely couldn't eat it all the time.
And I think is a avatar would to go tyrannical, it would be to have peace.
By removing the freedoms of others.
About light Vs Dark
In order to see anything the lights and shades of dark needs to be both present
Without light the room is completly dark and you can't see anything
Without Darnkness theinfinite ammount of light your eyballs would be burned
balance of both is needed to see
Aang: *Tries to prove his innocence by proving that Kyoshi did not commit murder* Kyoshi: Yeah I did it and I’d do it again
I think she kills many more people actually
@@mrransom4400 Read Kyoshi novels and you will see
True Jreg reference...
Goofy voice: “I’ll fuckin do it again”
In short Kyoshi was ready to a b#tch
I think what makes an avatar inherently “good” is that in order to master all four elements you have to understand the perspective of every nation. And be willing to learn from people who think differently than you. The wisdom of the avatar is from understanding others.
So, an Avatar could be evil, but they wouldn’t be as powerful as other avatars and probably not able to bend all four elements.
Emma Herzig yes or there would have to be a scenario set up where they learn all the elements with out traveling kind of like Korra did, before she left the south pole to learn air
@@emmazig
That'd perfectly set up how they could potentially lose, if a story is made.
Which I'd love to see. 4 main characters, each a different bender, working together to defeat an evil Avatar.
Could even explore alternative bending via learning from each other. IIRC, Lightning bending is kind of "Water bending done by a fire bender", for example.
Thus we could have a sort of twisting to the Avatar's journey to learn all 4 techniques, as our heroes learn from the methods and styles and even philosophies of the other 3 nations.
This makes sense SO much sense
I think the whole point of the Avatar is to be truly neutral.
Aang: all life is sacred. I'm a vegetarian
Cabbages: Am I a joke to you?
MY CABBAGES!!!!
Underrated
I give u my credit card.
*Radishes will remember that*
Technically, they're already dead. They were cut and killed when harvested.
"That's why Raava ended up looking like a pathetic 6 year olds kite"
That had me wheezing 😂😂
What if the avatar was born into the fire nation during the hundred year war
That would be interesting
That wouldn't work because of the cycle tbh. The hundred year war was started by Sozin after Roku's death (because he was the avatar). Roku was obviously born of Fire Nation decent. Even if Sozin still started the war with Roku completely out of the story Sozin would've had to kill Ang, find the next two Avatar born and kill them
King-Of-Ruin
It’s still quiet possible, say Aang died, the water one was killed in a freak penguin sliding accident and that the earth one was killed by the Fire Nation.
Voila, you have a Avatar who has to struggle with the slightly facist fire nation indoctrination and how they are their own country’s worst fear.
King-Of-Ruin it was more of a ‘what if’ statement
Like let’s say Roku was originally a earth bender and only knew Sozin in the same way Aang knew Bumi
Then everything would play out the same and when Roku dies the next avatar would be born into the Fire nation during the start of the war
And like is a sarcastic bastard with anger problems. Would be super funny to watch
@@Chrosteellium FINALLY what if X was the avatar scenario, how about instead of a char being part of X nation how about a what if X char was the avatar!!!! I think ty lee would of made an amazing avatar, yes she can't bend but that doesn't stop ppl from getting bending we have seen it happen with zaheer and others getting airbending. Double posting
“The Avatar must maintain the balance.”
“Both Raava and Vaatu are essential for survival of the world, both being important.”
What if the world was absolutely ordered and peaceful, and the Avatar brought chaos to restore the balance to a more middle-ground?
Like Aang did in the super-ordered city of Ba Sing Se. Allowing their people to be more free.
Yes. I’ve always found it problematic how Vaatu “HAD” to be imprisoned. That’s not how eastern philosophy works.
@@noahdmnc Its because the writers didn't care about or understand eastern philosophy, this is a fucking Jesus and Satan plot if I have ever read one. And I read the lion the witch and the wardrobe.
Well... Avatar koruk lived in the most peaceful period an he was chilling sooo. No.
Aang ended the Hundred Year War
Evil Avatar as the main antagonist would be great, the serie should focus on a team of young benders, forming the new generation of The White Lotus.
IF WAN FUSES WITH VAATU, who MANIPULATES HIM.
I want to watch that and see how the world has to fight a villain who is overpowered and thinks he is doing the right thing, but he clearly is not. Also there are many avatars could have a villainous traits are not villains.
I think a earth avatar growing up an orphan and doing morally questionable things to survive finds out he is the avatar first tries to get a better position in life but gets dragged into politics in a world where the avatar is kind of overshadowed or considered a relic perhaps due to the technological advancements or long term peace between the four nations
Evil avatar wouldn't be overpowered at all, his/her connection with previous avatar would be really weak, and make her/him unable to enter avatar mode, avatar without avatar mode is just a bender with 4 elements honestly, put him/her in a ring against 4 bender then he/her probably will loose easily.
It would be interesting like a theory on what if the red lotus succeeded in capturing Korra
I would love a morally confused avatar. Or rather morally indifferent. They don’t really care for either. They just do what they need to survive. Think Toph when they first met her. She was very indifferent to the worlds entire situation.
*Ozai was a good guy.*
1 - Though the man banished his son zuko he ended up giving him supplies that lasted two years (731 days maximum depending on if their was a leap year or not) and it continued to last for most of the Winter book.
Zuko also had enough money to pay the engineers at Zhao's base/territory who repaired his vehicle.
2 - He genuinely was proud of Zuko when he was told a story of him killing the avatar in ba sing se. He hugged his son and helped him up. Even letting him speak in war councils & meeting's. He valued the opinion of zuko & considered him as relevant as Azula.
3 - Ozai saved Zuko from Azula who was chasing him in childhood (is depicted in a painting/portrait which zuko remembers a couple of time's in the series).
4 - Ozai saved Zuko again during his childhood (mentioned by the man himself in a comic named "The Promise" it was on a beach prior to when Lu Ten ever died).
5 - Ozai could have put an end to Ursa's life but he allowed her to remain alive and choose to let her go back to her village, meet her parents and live her life with Ikem, he set his love free & still bravely takes the hatred of his son even though it was all Ursas fault Ozai never blamed her.
6 - Ozai hired a yuyan archer to slay Ikem, but he failed, then instead of punishing or firing the archer ozai gave him permission to get a better job in a private/independent group/organization called "The Rough Rhinos" who ended up being friends of his brother Iroh. This nameless archer got a relationship with iroh, a good job, a identity because of a great human being like Ozai.
7 - The reason he asked Azulon to revoke the birthrights of Iroh is because Ozai knew his brother better than everyone and wanted him to be happier. He understood that after LuTen's death prince Iroh would not be able to rule properly or take up his responsibilities very soon. It would be too much stress for his brother so Ozai solved irohs problem by making a request.
8 - Ozai encouraged and guided Azula in her life, helping her in her problems, giving her the love that her slut of a mother would never give to her.
9 - He did not discriminate against any race, species or gender. Ozai never judges people based on their looks. He judge's them based on merit instead. Which is why Ozai banished his son zuko cause he lacked merit. He allowed women to serve as warriors, guards and soldier's.
10 - Ozai also encouraged Zuko to hit him during their agni kai duel, but zuko refused, if he had followed the order and hit ozai then it is very likely that zuko wouldn't have been banished and instead would still be allowed to stay in the palace despite having a scar and not need to capture a avatar or kill one to go back home.
11 - Ozai gave Zhao many promotions despite his failure, he was the best boss basically, giving his workers many chances and their salary would be raised. He is the nicest person to work for. Ozai let people like admiral chan go to islands for a paid vacation.
12 - Ozai had several chances to kill his beloved brother Iroh (the fat fugck was in prison, helpless) but he was merciful, resistant and cared about his life, he forgave iroh for his crimes and sins and let him have two square meals every day & training equipment in jail. Ozai probably had that young female guard hired to serve Iroh in the prison cause he wanted his brother to be happy.
He also probably encouraged his brother to marry again after Lu Tens mom died but Iroh was too stubborn, stupid, ignorant and needed an excuse/pretext for hating his younger, taller, handsome brother.
Maybe one that cared more about spirits than humans
It almost sounds Avatar Kuruk but if he was more ignorant and/or apathetic
@@kagamiuchihathebeast5862 you are forgetting the fact that
1 - He gave zuko a permanent scar on his eye because he spoke out of turn ONCE.
2 - He tried to kill zuko with lightning on day of black sun.
@@DonutMT nice copium u've got their
When used for ill, Peace becomes tyranny.
When used for good, Chaos becomes rebellion.
Peace within the heart can lead to tranquility, but also stagnation and apathy.
Chaos in the heart can lead to impulsiveness, but also creativity and growth.
Nicodemus Edwards Iroh? Is that you?
@@ltchugacast131 leaves from the vine...
Why are there wise words in a TH-cam comment. I was expecting something along the lines of “ur mom gay ha.”
@@thomasraaberg8400 ikr
@@valorix3385 falling so slow
Evil earth bending avatar would be a great show
Yea
It’s called Reign of Kyoshi
Xtra Chromes imagine if kuvira was the evil avatar
@@johnnyneutron1530 she wasn't evil
klaudio6222 He never said the show couldn’t be a prequel.
"peace can mean oppression."
long feng has entered the chat.
TRUTH
Kuvira is typing...
jocaguz18
Dude it’s a joke
@jocaguz18 there is no war in ba sing se
@jocaguz18 actually it doesn't have to be, oppression can just be the limiting of information in or out of a specific group of people
oppression isn't inherently _physically_ violent
I've heard one interesting take that the next Avatar after Korra should actually be a pair of twins: One holding Raava's spirit, the other holding Vaatu's after its inevitable rebirth. We could see not only how the "Dark Avatar" has to reconcile Vaatu's twisted ideology and reform it into what it should be, a force to bring freedom, creativity and passion into the world but also how the "Light Avatar" has to reconcile the stagnancy, tyranny and dogma the previous Avatars influenced by Raava wrought. I dunno, maybe a concept to see hypothetically?
I have thought about this. I think Vaatu would re-emerge in the avatar and the new avatar would have to find true balance in themselves with both spirits inside them. Maybe since Vaatu took the past lives from the avatar he can give them back?
Question, would both avatars follows the same cycle (water>earth>fire>air) or would the "dark avatar" cycle be the "opposite" or "opposing" bending (if light avatar is a water bender, then dark avatar is a fire bender) or would a "dark avatar" not follow any cycle as vaatu is chaos
@@sonictacocat Hard to say, I'd also speculate that since Vaatu never bothered to approach each individual dragon turtle to give each element the "Dark Avatar" may only be able to bend water and earth: The former from Unalaqs spirit and the latter from the new Avatar. This could either mean the "Dark Avatar Cycle" would only be just yo-yoing from water to earth or it'd constantly be looking for airbending or firebending children to be born to try and complete the cycle.
@@TheSpearkan would it not be only water, because Kora’s Uncle was only a water bender. So it would probably just swap between the north and south pole.
I think it would be Avatar Genji.
An evil Avatar would make for an interesting third series....if that ever happens.
I always felt that, if they ever made a third series, it should explore what it would be like for a sibling of the Avatar, or if it's even possible for an Avatar to have siblings.
+Cool Infinity Maybe a story where the avatar actually questions the entire function of the white lotus would be interesting. To be honest the whole Red lotus idea could have been a brilliant way to have a more nuanced conflict beyond simply fighting a particular nation. Or how the red lotus were more or less just the "bad guys".
An Avatar that isn't afraid to actually kill, not evil just harsh and ruthless and selfish, evil would be hard to write.
The JuanTrueKaiser My read on them is the White Lotus are essentially the Avatar universe's equivalent of the Knights Templar. Skeletons in their closet and splinter groups with nefarious aims were an inevitability, and what made them overall force of good was a combination of their full scope being secret even from one another making it hard to subvert the order, and there being several people of incredibly strong moral fiber holding positions of leadership. Gyatso, was the Grand Master of the order during Aang's childhood, and several people Gyatso took Aang to meet were later initiated into the order. Iroh was Grand Master of the order during the events of the Series. This only really came into play when he issued the call to arms... But I digress. The order is fully capable of producing evil effects and even being misguided in good endeavors, such as how they essentially screw the pooch with Korra's upbringing and training. This was partly Katara's doing, as she had an undue influence on the order's activities. How could they have not predicted the conflict of interests there...
@@MogofWar Where the Order of the White Lotus actually came from would also be an interesting idea for some side series or comic. I could their rise coinciding with particular political developments centuries or even millennia ago, shaping how they could have gone from a public to secret organization. Or maybe they did some terrible things in the past against the avatar. Who knows.
Toph would probably bury him.
*"Listen here Twinkle Toes"*
Guessing buy your name, I'd say that your a anarchist?
And then Avatar state
The Anti-Christ 😝
@@1lobster Wrong and what the hell does anarchism have anything to do with this conversation lmao
@Jay Well yeah, realistically the Aang could probably destroy Toph. But then again, Toph was highly skilled and extremely powerful, possibly one of the greatest Earthbenders *ever.* That's not to say Aang isn't powerful too. My main point is that Toph was probably one of the most powerful benders of her time in her prime, besides maybe Yakone and Aang.
Ravaa: I am the spirit of peace
Also Ravaa: I have been engaged in battle since before time began
TheGirlWhoExists exactly👌
The battle to maintain balance--and restore peace, you mean?
Yin and Yang always fight, but one can't exist without the other. The equilibrium of their fight means that everything stays still and quiet. Peaceful.
@@aliza_h that's an interesting take on it! I hadn't considered it that way to be fair. I'm still not fond of the depiction of Yin and Yang through the hero/villain lens the show gave Raava and Vaatu (which was more my intention above) but I'll admit I don't know the philosophies intimately
Huh
There can be no peace until war is destroyed.
I remember thinking about this when Iroh told Zuko that the avatar has to get rid of Ozai or else history will see the event as more royal bloodshed. The avatar is an absolute say in a lot of decisions in their world, it would only be natural for some of them to take advantage of their authority
Everyone: the Avatar always does good things
*laughs in Dai Li*
Yes I know it was accidental but it's still funny
@@williamsledge3151 kek
It's like he said TOO MUCH order and TOO MUCH peace.
Are you saying, there is a problem with the Dai Li. Why they give free vacation to Lake Laogai, so they can be bad.
But seriously for a moment, I wouldnt say the Dai Li is not inherently evil, they was slowly twisted over time, and became more secret police, than just protectores of cultur.
The Dai Li became corrupt after Avatar Kiyoshi
Vaatu is the spirit of Goth and Party, Raava is the spirit of Florescents and Office Work
Lmao
Why. Now I agree and can't unsee
What if I'm goth working a 9 to 5?
@@Atticblood then you have achieved perfect balance
@@AlakaxamM As all things should be
Lmao imagine kyoshi merged with vaatu. Everyone would DIE
nah raava is better, reason why she was holding vantu of for centuries then beat vantuu again(wan). I think she would probably become weaker and obv evil
@Mr.Supreme Half the point of the video seemed to be one of "Evil is based on perspective" and from the perspective of say the loving people of the Earth Kingdom, killing him was an evil act to the point a group still celebrated her demise.
@Mr.Supreme What was her own response to "she didn't kill him"?
For all intents and purposes she may as well have by her own admission.
people always forget that kyoshi’s parents were notorious criminals and kyoshi was also a criminal
*your bwst nightmare intensifies*
My friend wrote a pretty cool scenario for a evil Avatar where the Avatar got fed up with technology advancing and felt it took away the specialty of bending, feeling like bending is now a unimpressive background aspect in the world so they team up with a dark spirit to follow a path of destruction to revert the world back to a state where bending mattered again (it takes place after tLoK)
I'd like to imagine this happens a few times, which might explain why in 10000 years since Wan the world is somewhat still developing
Like at some point humans reached a point of advancement and spirits or plain war pushes humanity a few thousand years to develop again from scratch
Ok, like everybody else, I know "Legend of Kora" doesn't reach the level of greatness this show reached (which is why I stoped watching it at the start of the second half of season 2). However, I do think it has potential, so I'm working on my own headcanon for it. The main aspect I seek to fix right now ? The big villain of the entire show. A twisted nihilistic manipulative avatar who attempts to return to the world of the living. Now here's the problem. That avatar's alignement is chaotic evil. But I don't know what her plan should be for both the spiritual and material world. So, for anyone here who is a fan of Lovecraftian horror, has played "KOTOR 2" and has seen/read both "Bird Box" and "Anhilation", what do you think her end goal should be ?
@@JabamiLain Perhaps she could be trying to merge the two, making death functionally impossible, and resulting in people growing so old and weak (if they were alive before the merge), that they can do nothing to stop the once-dead (People who were dead at the time of the merge) from ruling with an iron fist
@@yellowflametree4238 I don't think so. If you look at our own history, technology only really exploded some hundred years ago, but human civilization is waaaay older.
@@hotlinesanzensekai7084 yea but from what we can tell from wans time period when he died it should of reached some what modern tech in what 500 hundred or so years the weren't cavemen there were closer to 1500 ce China than spear chucking at mammoth cavemen
Pretty sure Kyoshi’s whole back story was thievery and assassination and stuff, and upon becoming a fully realized Avatar never fully turned away from it.
Kyoshi would clap fools if she had to
Fire.
Fire.
Fire.
Fire.
Long ago, the fire nations lived in harmony.
Then, everything changed when the Avatar attacked.
Ive seen that video too
had to go look it up. lmao
Korra tho... Fire. Fire. Fire. Fire.
can u feel it now mr krabs can u show me plz,I can’t find it
That would be the opening instead of the original one
Why tf is everyone in this comment section suddenly a philosopher
Its the music
Everyone is a philosopher, its just only few people hone and increase their philosophy
So, you know fruitcake? I like fruitcake. I'll defend it. It needs to be made properly - go light on the molasses, make sure the candied fruits are fresh, not stale, and consider using a recipe that makes for a lighter and fluffier batter - but I do find it delicious when someone has put sincere effort into baking it.
There. Was that a good break from everyone in the comment section being a philosopher? ;) Heh heh. Have a wonderful day. ...I won't even put an adage after that statement, either. Cheers!
Because no person isn't a philosopher, nor is anyone actually wise.
😂😂😂
I love this video, because the good and evil is the problem I had with LoK. I feel like if there was way too much peace, there would an avatar that would cause chaos, not necessarily cartoonish villain evil, but to create disorder, which is how avatar Kuruk was in a sense. The reason why no immensely chaotic avatar exists is probably because a world completely at peace is not probable, especially with the nature of humans.
Yangchen made a spiritual mess which Kuruk sorted out. Roku and Kyoshi caused problems that Aang had to solve, and after that, Aang left his and left some of Roku for Korra to solve. Your theory is coherent to me.
The concept of "Yin" and "Yang" is not about good and evil (as western media tends to say). It is simply about 2 sides of the same coin (be they objectively good or bad). Both of which need to be in balance for harmony to exist.
Hm I thought of Katara and Azula as some Yin and Yang. The warm and friendly water bender with the hidden dark side represented by her hatred for the murderer of her mother and her blood bending and Azula as the not so friendly fire bender with some hints, that there is still good in her, that the Emperor could not destroy. Though in terms of balance I´d say Azula needs a bit fine tuning.
I agree. It’s all about perspective
Kinda reminds me why the hell sometimes God is evil to me... Im natrually a really lucky person, mostly luck is on my side along with intuvition. But i sometimes gotta remind myself that every good has bad in it.
x TealStories
there is no such thing as luck, God has planned everything.
@@mattika im pretty sure there are random things, sometimes. Not always lol
"Anyone is capable of great good and great evil"
Aang, 2010
not sure that he said that, but you're right tho
@@nwut if I'm not wrong he did, while talking about Roku and Sozin, that Roku was just as Fire nation as Sozin
ExACtly ! my pal Aang said that in the trip at Avatar Roku's ashy land
@@nwut he said it in the ATLA Episode about young avatar tiki and fire lord sozin
2007**
Was he really a "Dark Avatar"? Sure he shoot a chest laser of spiritual energy. He did not have elemental mastery though.
Perfected mastery over water
The avatars only have the ability to bend all elements because wan acquired all of the abilities before reincarnation
Unalaq would’ve needed to gain all the elements from the lion turtles and then fuse with Vaatu during Harmonic Convergence to make it permanent and allow for more dark avatars. But Harmonic Convergence isn’t for another 10,000 years and no one knows where the lion turtles are so unless there’s some other way, it’s not happening any time soon.
Tim: But HøW Đo YöŮ DéfIńE aņ Avatar
@@13zomi in theory, the avatar can energy bend them extra elements if my understanding of that is correct. Probably easier than finding multiple lion turtles. They still wouldn't reincarnate though
“What if there was an evil avatar?”
Unalaq: Am I joke to you?
The majority of the fanbase: Yes; we honestly thought you already knew that.
yeah
Let's just forget about season 2.
It exist , but it's lame xd
Yes he is
Y’all ain’t even talking about how aang would’ve murdered the sand benders if katara hadn’t intervened( btw saw da likes thanks never go this many)
Split Central frrrr he was ready he like fuck it lol
I thought you said invented for some reason bruhhh
Oh yea i remember, oof
or Zuko for the 10th time in the comics
Nah, did you see the meme where it was Plankton as Kyoshi 😂 I bet she was really inside Aang having a good old time 🤣
I haven't started this yet but I imagine after Korra broke the ties to past Avatars that it would be easier for someone to be an evil Avatar.
Exactly. Now the next avatar wont have all the previous knowledge and can be mislead
I agree
Another reason why korra is a fucking dumbass
@@ethanmcfarland8240 another reason why you dont know shit it aint her fault
alain
Oww
I still don't understand why she is "light and peace" instead of Light and order. If he is chaotic she'd have to be orderly... idk...
Well, chaos and peace are still opposites.... Though I suppose not quite as fully opposed as peace and conflict or order and chaos.
Still. Things can be orderly but not at peace. I think it's going with the idea of being at peace vs being conflicted or chaotic.
@@plzletmebefrank I guess it's the context of everything that makes me think she represents order and he represents chaos. If that makes more sense? But instead she is peace and he is chaos which makes slightly less sense to me. The opposite of chaos is order...
@@sparten316 theres a ying yang spirit doe
There just angel and demon
@@sparten316
I think it's because the story was being told by an unreliable narrator, meaning that what we see is not what literally happened, it's just a memory.
In that view, the sudden outburst of dangerous spirits makes more sense, because that's what it felt like for the Wan and ms. spirit.
@@IrvingIV I'm sorry but that's an awful way to justify bad writing, you can apply that anywhere.
Aang: "I've only had to use violence for necessary defence."
Me: "what about all those fire nation soldiers who were on the boats you sunk that mysteriously never resurfaced."
Beating back an invading force.
Do you mean the one at the North Pole? That was just a pissed off Ocean spirit.
No, have you never thought about all the ships that aang has taken over or sunk. But he can't have killing the fire on his mind
@@ToastedBread11 it is a defensive war against an expansionist power. I'd say its self defence
@gufo sufo still he can kill moronic fire nation soldiers, but he can't kill their leader, the ultimate moron
That's what makes avatar a complex character
They have so much power hence their decisions could lead to consequences beyond their control
Roku leaving sozin alive lead to his own demise
Kyoshi would have killed sozin
Roku was going to die on the volcano. Sozin being there just delayed it.
According to the novels, Kyoshi gave chances and didn't start with killing. So it makes sense that if she was best friends with Sozin, she'd give him a chance like Roku did.
"What if the Avatar was evil?"
if the Avatar was found and raised by someone like Ozai or the Dai Li? Yes.
I don’t think ravaa would choose to possess them, or whatever you call it, and also zuko was raised by Ozai and he wasn’t evil
@@tangerineturtles9551 Zuko was also raised by Iroh and his mom.
If Aang had died when the war began, and then the fire nation wiped out the water tribe and earth nation Avatars over the course of the 100 year war. It's possible that either Zuko or Azula would have been the Avatar.
Well if the avatar is the one who's job is to bring balance to the 4 nations, then would the avatar at least notice the fire nation's or Dai Li's ideology or something. Would it be a matter of time if the destiny of the avatar's have changed? Like what happened to Zuko, (although not the avatar) his destiny changed from capturing the avatar for the fire nation into helping the avatar bring peace to the 4 nations?
TangerineTurtles what you said
More terrifying theory: Raava can tell whether someone will be a good avatar or not while they're in the womb. Raava then chooses an appropriate host to carry out her will.
There is no free will in the world of Avatar. No will... but Raava's.
That would be incredible, even though in my mind Raava looked like an alien chestburster in that scenario
Sure, if that was true you really think out of all waterbenders Korra would've been the best choice. She's not necessarily bad as the Avatar but there's obvious better choices besides her.
Raava doesn't choose a host. She is bonded with Wan's spirit. This is why she explicitly says " we will be together for all of YOUR lifetimes" . Raava follows the wan reincarnation line.
But what if the avatar has a terrible childhood and then turns evil?
I've always believed that the rebirth of the avatar isn't instant and that ravaa will find an appropriate host with loving parents/a good character rather than randomised incarnation
I think the issue is that in these shows we are always led to take an automatic agreement with what a seemingly benevolent character says is true even if they are subjectively biased towards their own view. The Light sprit Raava claims she is "Light & Peace" when in actuality she more represents "Light & Order", I actually think she is misleading us as she's asserting that her way is infact the correct way to be for no other reason than that she says so. She also can't truly represent Peace because she is literally in a perpetual adversarial relationship of war against the Chaos spirit Vaatu.
Also she's always angry XD I remember laughing so hard when the friend I was watching the show with told me that for the spirit of peace, she though she was pretty aggressive and spiteful XD
Maybe that’s the point people are missing, that even these spirits that believe these things about themselves are flawed in their logic and believe themselves to be far more objective than they actually are
@@pisscvre69 WRITERS TRY TO SHOW THEM* more objective than THEY SHOULD BE*
well... raava has evil inherently inside her. So, that's why.
Raava was also apparently fine with that one Water Tribe Avatar hunting down and trying to kill Koh for purely personal reasons. I don't think a bridge between the human and spirit worlds should be running around trying to kill spirits, but hey, the whole Raava-twist doesn't make sense anyway.
So I started watching you about 6 months ago. Your analysis and articulation of the content you present is so thought provoking! Just got my “a wizard did it!” Shirt and everyone thinks it’s awesome. Thanks for what you’re doing on here Tim!
Yep. I hate it when they make things so binary by saying "this is good and this is bad." Having the blurring line and spectrum makes things interesting and realistic. The concept of Raava and Vaatu is fine, but their execution was pretty horrible due to how binary they were and how they impacted the story.
It would have been much better if they were "light and dark" but not necessarily "good and evil" -- just different takes on the same idea and, like the yin and yang they present, had more of each other inside of themselves.
Also, tying the Avatar specifically to Raava instead of the Avatar being neutral and a force of just spirits in general, really made it seem like there is no true balance in the Avatar world. The whole idea of the Avatar world is about balance. But when the Avatar is inherently "good" that throws out the balance when there isn't an counterpart save for once every 10,000 years or whatever mumbo jumbo they made up. Seems like just having the Avatar be neutral and be shaped by their surroundings would have been much more interesting and useful commentary on life and reality.
Not to mention they got the Yin-Yang thing completely wrong.
Yin, the feminine, is dark, passive, negative, etc.
Yang, the masculine, is light, active, positive, etc.
I mean the original avatar had a pretty low budget and was a nickolodean kid's show, but they did a great job anyway. They could only get so morally grey when the show's main audience was kids originally.
Ok what about the one air bending villian he was not only morally grey but he made me think the avatar might be the bad one
Timothy Bell ... no. That’s been a thing since way before Disney in a lot of Star Wars media. Disney didn’t invent the idea of trying to strike a balance, they’re just more consistent about it than the Expanded Universe.
Meh, Vaatu was more evil from a rational, human POV. Raava's goals seem good to us because they allow human civilization to grow and prosper. Raava also became a human sympathizer.
Conversely, Vaatu's influence creates a world of wild, unthinking beasts, an ever-spreading jungle of survival of the fittest, where humans are laughably outmatched. Vaatu also views humans as insects and pawns.
In my Avatar fanon, my character, the amnesiac Sun Spirit in human form, ends up living the life of a human, and ends up sympathizing with humans to a far greater degree than Raava: he ends up becoming a hardcore human supremacist, and begins to view spiritual intrusion in human affairs to be an affront to humanity, and spirits themselves as interloping alien colonizers. In his view, the Material World is the property of humans to do with as they see fit. He stubbornly maintains this view even after regaining his memories.
If you look at Raava and Vaatu in accordance to the DnD alignment system, Ravaa is Lawful and Vaatu is Chaotic. Theoretically speaking, Ravaa could very easily be riencarnated into a Lawful Evil Avatar..
an equally awesome concept would be a chaotic good vaatu avatar
A Lawful Evil Avatar, you could argue that Kyoshi fits this archetype very well
@@Hexados-666 She absolutely did not fit any such alignment. Did you read her books at all?
I think if this were true it would have happened already.
@@Hexados-666 She'd be Lawful Neutral more than Lawful Evil...
Aang:i have certainly never taken a life
Also Aang:takes down an entire fleet of airships
Me: Im not so sure they survived
Launches fire nation soldiers off 60 foot walls while escaping prison*
Also yeets Earth Kingdom guards into ceilings and crushes them with rocks
@@blackboarpl The giant wasp aang killed in the desert out of rage of losing appa?
Yeah that wasn't 'accidental'
This is true but in the avatar world it takes a lot to kill someone like the fire lord ozie gave Zuni a scar just a scar he is the best fire bender in the avatar series so I bet if I was in avatar I could live from a 20 feet fall with of course broken bones prob not coma
@@cookieface9946 bro what
the funny thing is in easten mythology the darkness is feminine and the light is masculine yin and yang
Blue dragon / red dragon in Zuko's head
Gals can be pretty dank tbf
Does that mean the writers screwed up when finding VA's for Vaatu and Raava? (because it is just the voices, nothing about the kite spirits lean in either direction gender wise)
Raava is lawful neutral
Vaatu is chaotic neutral
I hope the next series makes that notion, think about it a scene where Vaatu is speaking about "freedom"
SOooooo... Zaheer?
“Personally I don’t really see the difference.”
I don’t know why, but I love this line from Kyoshi. The most badass of all the avatars.
The worst thing in Korra was the duality thing. Don't get me wrong. I liked the series, but that Raava-Vaatu thing was like Midichlorians. Didn't need explaining and made things less interesting
I hated the series.
Midichlorians communicate with the Force they aren't the Force itself, The Force is still an all powerful mystery.
@@and8091 we both know you got that information from an extended universe thing and not the moive midichlorians were introduced in and the fact that you had to proves the original poster right because someone else came to the same conclusion and felt the need to add more context to fix midichlorians
I kinda figured it was a story told with a spin... namely Wan's perspective. He bonded with Raava, so of course to him she was the "good" half.
In the end Korra didn't entirely take Wan's side. She left the spirit world and the material world connected, a more chaotic state of affairs. She also reformed the bond without Vaatu stuck in the tree, meaning the chaos element will necessarily re-emerge within the avatar spirit itself, and she has essentially bonded all future avatars with them both!
@@kitcat3579 You definitely don't know what you're talking about.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
Ryker Hoppe a fellow sith lord I see
Both Sith and Jedi are fools.
@@RVL-ow7vq actually grey Jedi
@@TheLostArchangel666 only from a certain point of view
@@rykerhoppe9245 Ryker Hoppe Grey Jedi are the way forward I'd say. The Jedi are dogmatic fools, and the Sith are self-obsessed madmen.
The middle ground must be found, one wherein passion is allowed, while tempered with reason and inner peace; wherein power is not shied away from, yet seen as a tool, not a goal in and of itself: For else, you lose all power, as power gains control over you, while you madly pursue the acquisition of more of it.
Wherein love and empathy are key; wherein altruism is promoted, but not to the point of self-destruction or the demonizing of self-worth.
Wherein knowledge is not hoarded, but freely spread.
Wherein order is not used as an excuse for tyranny and the destruction of freedom - a tendency both Sith and Jedi have.
"The Avatar has the ability to draw lines in the sand, wherever they want"
Sniffles and slowclaps*
Beautiful
Aang: "All life is sacred"
Plants are alive too, AANG!
Edit: I never thought this would spark such an intense conversation🤔. BTW thanks for likes
Vegans&Vegeterians: bUt tHeY dOnT fEeL
@ umm they just eat parts of plants and don't kill them but okay
lol
@ But they don’t have a nervous system, so...
@@KillerOfWhales But they do react to damage with chemicals, though. Almost seems like they sense damage and react to it, hm?
As an Australian, I know the easiest way to defeat a New Zealander in battle:
Ask them to say six.
that joke is actually funnier on our end because the way aussies say six sounds like how we say sex
It works pretty well on germans too
😛
@@riverross2178 no it doesn't
Or an Irish. Watch Trainspotting.
Man the 1984 (George Orwell) parallels in your analysis of peace was blowing my mind
My theory is this. (For this theory assume that one or the other is "in charge" when I talk about them)
Raava as the spirit of peace and light would do whatever it takes to maintain peace in the world. At the end of Avatar Wan's life we see that he was involved with some sort of battle, probably a war. If peace meant taking over the world and enforcing peace then that's what would happen if she had the means to do so (which the avatar just might depending on the times). She is not inherently good, good does not matter to her, so long as peace and order are enforced.
Vaatu on the other hand, is the spirit of chaos and darkness, and would do whatever it took to get rid of order. He's an anarchist, he's not evil, he just hates it when rules try to tie him down. He doesn't make the spirits evil, we saw that Bumi was able to get along with a dark spirit after all by playing his flute. That being said, the reason the dark spirits might attack humans is because humans have taken over their homes. During Avatar Wan's life we see an argument take place between the humans and the spirits, the spirits are angry because the humans are trying to take their homes away from them and as they get angry at that thought they start to turn dark. They aren't evil, they're just protecting what's theirs, and if anything the humans are the evil ones in that scenario.
So bottom line, while Raava might be Light and Peace, this does not make her good, as peace could also be achieved through control and force. And while Vaatu might be the spirit of Darkness and Chaos, this does not make him evil, as chaos can simply refer to a lack of order, or can be used to protect what one cares about (such as the case of the spirits defending their homes).
Anime Otaku
Woow... so nicely said...i love your thinking it's beautiful (I like your profile pic of Jiraiya-sama as well)
@@ndpd7695 thank you very much. :)
@Digicraftmon the Crystal Gem yeah, I was mainly going for the "no one controlling him" part. Anarchist seemed like the best fitting at the time since governments were brought up in the video and my comment.
Very VERY Interesting. Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this.
Anime Otaku is it true peace tho, if it’s forced? how could humans be at peace without individual freedom. i would argue that they would feel restrained and/or imprisoned and therefore lack true inner peace. but well thats just my opinion:)
You know how we could’ve fixed Raava and Vaatu? Draw them similarly, same color palette, maybe the symbols are different.. and give them the same voice. Good and Evil are similar but never truly done tight visually, it’s often confused with one another, and that;s why I think this idea comes up close with the meaning of good and evil.
One thing: Raava intentionally fought Vaatu *and stated it was in order to keep balance.* This shows that she was more focused on balance than peace by any means necessary.
how is that balance? That's my question
Light can be blinding, while Darkness often causes hightened awareness.
Light can burn / hurt people if it's too intense, while Darkness in small doses is good for ones mental health.
Yes, Darkness is often associated with evil, loneliness, & scary things. That isn't the extent of what Darkness means, though, especially when tied in with the concept of Chaos.
Hmmm, I think that because it's a reincarnation cycle. If the avatar is at the core the same person every time, an extraordinary event would prob need to occur for them to turn evil.
Because in general the avatar prob hasn't been evil because the first avatar was not and had strong drive and motivation.
L Jeans I think you need to look at Avatar Wan's life cycle more closely. He was the 1st Avatar & he was not a source of peace & order at his core... before merging with Raava. However, Raava, being the spirit of Peace & Order / Light is not inherently 'good'. This was lost on the show creators for The Legend of Korra, though.
Hello Future Me is absolutely right in this. Even in TLOK this Yin-Yang symbolism is apparent, although poorly represented.
On a side note, I miss Mishka.
@@amyliaclenny1866 Hm, that's true but in his prime BEFORE he met Rasja, he had a general moral compass and understanding of the world around him. Plus even if his intentions were generally gray he was not EVIL even before Rasja.
In Egypt the color “black”,often associated with darkness in western culture, is considered a good thing as it meant the fertile soil around the Nile river.
...Aang's whole journey was to learn the power needed so he could depose the leader of an entire nation and (eventually) put someone more in line with his own way of thinking on the throne. So~ yeah...
Yeah, if peace is the goal, both opposing the fire nation and supporting them would lead to that goal.
ozai was gonna seek to dominate the world, thus removing balance. Avatars exist to protect balance
when you put it that way...
That leader he deposed was going to destroy a whole nation to crush the spirits of anyone that might challenge him in the future and even when the whole world including past Avatars told Aang to kill him Aang found another way to end the fighting.
Yeah, but Ozai was going to essentially carpet bomb the biggest continent on the planet, thus making 75% of the world uninhabitable, so I'll give Aang a pass. Ozai's plan kind of made no sense if he wanted to actually reap the benefits of winning the war. There's no point of winning if you're going to destroy the place you were fighting over in the first place. But then again, he's an insane maniac voiced by Joker, so I guess it works for his character.
Well Aang didn’t know he was the avatar until he was 12. If someone became evil before they learned that they were the avatar, they pass the barrier. Raava is a separate entity from the avatar. They’re just connected.
Evil is a matter of perspective. Remember every person is the hero of their own story and the people who stop them are their villains.
That’s more protagonist vs antagonist.
Okay handsome jack
Then what’s to stop me from saying that serial killers can do what they do because their way of living is their perspective and they are the heroes of their story?
Error 404: ID not found that’s the point, it’s a matter of perspective
Johnny Guitar Thanks for at least being consistent.
okay so this is just my weird imagination
"so avatar, how will you maintain balance?"
future avatar: I will kill everyone in this -room- world and then myself
"uh that's not-"
future avatar: no life = no suffering
In the end, even pure Ruination leads to Preservation, as the universe falls to bits for eternity
No one wants toph as avatar because of the
Final battle to be 20 seconds long lol 😂
The only thing is that she probably wouldn't use Airbending almost at all because with her personality I kind of doubt she could master it
@@WoozidanTassia I also think it would be hard for her to use Airbending due to her blindness and dependance on the seismic sense to see.
@@ThyFloorestFloor But it would be cool if being an Air bender gave her access it sensing the movement of the air around her letting her see even in the air.
Ugh, I wish they never introduced Raava and Vaatu.
@Mimi Khas well, for one, I do NOT like it. Like, at all. The introduction of those 2 spirits also messes with the timeline, and retcons the "Avatar Statue" chamber. Because when you average out that every Avatar gets to be around 100 years (Kyoshi and Aang were older, but then there were others who didn't even get to 40) that makes it so that only a 100 Avatars existed before Korra. And there are wayyy more than a 100 statues in there.
What i'm trying to show here is that they tried to explain the magic system. And that almost ALWAYS ruins that very magic system they try to explain (the Force in the prequels for example).
And also, the Avatar represents balance. Meaning he is both the ying and the yang. Not only one of the 2. Yet in Korra they show that the spirit of light and order (but let's be honest they were basically good vs evil) joins the Avatar, and the spirit of chaos and darkness is locked away, causing an imbalance.
If they wanted to give us an Avatar Spirit back story, then they should've gone a different route. Have Wan be the guy to try and tell people that not all spirits are bad, and have a spirit try and convince the other spirits that not all humans are bad. You can they have the same arc up until the harmonic convergence fight. So, instead of Raava and Wan vs Vaatu, make it the spirits vs humans, with Wan and his spirit friend in the middle. They realise they aren't powerfull enough on their own, so they use the portals to merge together, become the first Avatar, and be a symbol of peace between spirits and humans (therefore a 'bridge' between the 2 worlds)
All that the Raava/Vaatu subplot does is redcon half of the Avatar history and fundamentaly ruin the concept of an Avatar itself.
@@darkozosel9114 bruh there where around 1000 avatars before korra 100.1000 is 10000 lmaoo math mistake
@@jaydenlima2313 bro I hope you are joking...
@@Kintsugi1221
Yep this was the biggest issue of LOK for me.
@@darkozosel9114 The Avatar Is balance, but Is this real? If you think, the Avatar is always just the good, for example, Zuko, Zuko have yo decide, His good family, avatar, ir vas family, His father, i think it's really obvious that the Avatar always try or Is slightly oriented yo the "good" the peace
I was scanning the comments for arguments in favor of fruit cake, and I was very let down
The only argument in favor of fruit cake is that it tastes good
I like it because of my grandma
Same
I was let down
It taste good and I like sugar
On the note of a spirit of peace being evil, I'm reminded of MLK's Letter From Birmingham Jail, "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice."
The idea of a positive and negative peace, that peace can be a force of oppression that silences the oppressed, is reminiscent of the stuff you posit in your video.
Did not expect this quote to be relevant only 3 days later.
#ACAB
And yet the Patriot Act stays with us
@@normal6483 your fucking stupid
@@normal6483 #BlueLivesMatter!
I'd like to see an alternate universe where there's both the "normal" avatar, and an "avatar of chaos".
The avatar could definitely be evil. Remember in the episode “The desert” when aang was lost in his rage? He was doing things opposed to what the monks taught him and used violence because he felt angry. 🤯
But just because he did that does not mean he was evil, just means he’s human.
Moon you’re absolutely correct. Which mean he could decide to be evil or good. Just like any human. 🤯🤯
MALAAHKYA 500 good point. But i think the avatar will always naturally gravitate to do good as appose to evil because he or she is the embodiment of a spirit of light. So no matter how much that avatar fall of his path, he/she will always find their way back due to that spirit. Like law of attraction u know?
Moon you are right about that.
MALAAHKYA 500 yea he was about beat there ass
Aang says that he refuses to kill, but are we just forgetting that at the end of season 1 he destroyed hundreds of fire nation ships whilst in the Avatar state?
The ocean spirit did that not Aang.
@@blackpowderkun oh ok that makes sense
But they mention that he was not in control of his actions in the avatar state.
The ocean spirit didnt kill them, it trapped them in the fog of lost souls where they imprison in thier darkest memories. A fate worst than death. Thats what happened to Zhao.
@@Bluedragon-iz3oo that makes it fucking worse!
They should start the Avatar back up, but in a time where the evil spirit has escaped and fuses with a new person to create a dark avatar! Then the story could take off from there. There would be countless possibilities!
Great video as always, Tim! It was clearly thought out and it makes sense; you always do a great job of explaining stuff. I've never cared for LoK too much, but I appreciate that people like you don't just disregard it, because technically it is canon. You used it in a way that supported your claims and it did so in a great way!Thank you for the videos and your insight this year. I found your channel only this year, but it's quickly become my favorite. If I had my own credit card/wasn't underage, I'd totally support you on Patreon. I'd just like to say that you're someone I look up to, not just as a great TH-camr, but a great person. Keep up the good work! My cats and I will continue worshipping Mishka! I hope you have a merry Christmas! Here's to 2019 being the best year yet! (HTTYD 3 and the On Writing book, whoop whoop!)
-Landrey
P.S. I've never eaten fruitcake so I've yet to decide its fate...
Think of it less Good/Evil and more Order/Chaos. The reason Aang didn't side wit hthe fire nation's totalitarian order is it was throwing the world out of balance. Maybe if the fire nation had succeeded and we got an avatar raised in the fire nation off fire nation propaganda 'they are simply making all parts closer knit and progressing humanity. Some suffering is justifiable so long as the greater whole progresses.' Look at Kyoshi's founding of a secretive above the law order tasked specifically with preserving cultural heritage that ended up 'inviting' people to lake lao gai all to preserve the outward appearances of harmony and an ordered existance.
That would basically have to start with avatar roku
Andrew Singleton yeah that can quickly spiral into what many could consider evil. Like with Emiya Heroic spirit from Fate franchise.
So, the thing about Rava and Vatu. When Vatu is defeated, the world becomes significantly more chaotic, which tells us very directly that it's not his presence that spreads chaos.
Fruit cake is great because with every bite you can taste the entire worlds disapproval. Is like Pineapple Pizza.
Pineapple on pizza. I think you might like Gabe Helmy
Don't you dare insult my pineapple pizza, that shit's delicious!!
I like pineapple pizza
Fruits on sweet pastries was always accepted in the culinary world. Remember the strawberries on the wedding cake? The blueberry pie?
On the other hand, putting pineapple bits on pizza is blasphemous. The only fruits that should be allowed on pizza are tomatoes and peppers.
...I feel indifferent towards Pineapple Pizza...
It is worth noting that the idea of Light as Good and Darkness as Evil is a Manichean concept that while heavily influential in the west did not gain nearly as much cultural traction to the east of it's native Iran. So when talking about the heavily East Asian influenced series these concepts should not really have a moral element. Of course regardless of what the intent might be Raava and Vaatu do play into these Manichean stereotypes. So If they were not supposed to be interpreted as moral concepts it is a failure of execution as the primary audience of this show comes from a Western Background.
(Am I spelling Manichean right? Autocorrect keeps changing it but I couls have sworn there was only one m.)
@Mullerornis You make a good point. And I do not claim to be an expert in Persian Studies. But a few notes based on my understanding. First Manicheanism is a branch of Zoroastrianism. Second it is my understanding that it was Mani (the creator of Manicheanism) who really codified the idea of associating Ahura Mazda with Light and Ahriman with Darkness. And while the idea would spread to mainstream Zoroastrianism, pre-Manichean Zoroastrianism didn't really associate darkness with Ahriman. And sources of light such as fire and the sun were considered holy, but do to association with specific Yazata rather than because light was inherently good. The Sun with Mithra, and I can't remember the name of the Yazata of fire. It is also worth noting that in mainstream Zoroastrianism Water was just as highly regarded as fire. Once again do in large part to association with a particularly important Yazata: Anahita.
@Mullerornis Yeah I think I may have communicated my ideas poorly here, sorry. I did not mean to imply that Manichaeism was in compliance with Zoroastrian orthodoxy.The problem here is there isn't really a good umbrella term, as far as I know, for religions descended from the teachings of Zoroaster. No equivalent of the term Abrahamic Religion. Manichean practices were indeed very different from Zoroatrian practices.
Also just as a point of clarity for everyone since I've apparently been unclear in explaining some of my thoughts. I am not saying that dualistic Good and Evil is a Manichean concepts. That as you said does go back as far as original Zoroastrianism, if not farther. Rather what I was attributing to Manichaeism was specifically the conflation of Light with Good and Darkness with Evil. Which I brought up because Raava and Vaatu are never referred to as spirits of Good or Evil. But rather Light and Darkness, which some people have interpreted as being Good and Evil. And I just wanted to bring up that there is not a universal metaphorical connection between those concepts.
@Mullerornis Light and darkness are not exclusively associated with good and evil Biblically either. Think of satan's name, also consider Genesis.
"From my Point of view, the Jedi äh I mean the Airbenders are evil". :-D
Execute the orde
The time has come =)
But why? What did the orde do?
@@moonbeam1658 what order 66
@@residentevil4884 orde
@@moonbeam1658 yeah still don't get it
I think an avatar can be evil if like, let’s say Aang died when the fire nation raided his culture, The next water bender died (Possibly not Korea since born different times) and the earth bender died.
That would mean the fire-nation avatar is told that the fire nation is good and helps takeover other nations, would that count as evil?
I swear, I remember reading a while back, before Korra was a thing, that the Avatar was the incarnation of the spirit of the planet itself. Like, Gaia in the flesh or something. This was why the Avatar could master all the elements that were inherent to the planet. Because the Avatar is the planet. Maybe I made that up, but I really think I read it on a website somewhere. In any case, I think it was a much better idea than what the writers ended up going with. Instead, the first Avatar was just some guy with a weird spirit parasite in him who got his bending in a way that involved the spirit, but was ultimately separate from it. It's too messy of a backstory.
by definition the name "avatar" itself fits more what you wrote than what Legend of Korra did. The avatar is supposed to be a wordly manifestation of higher forces. In The last airbender, the avatar is the manifestation of the world's balance, at the crossing of the four forces that are the elements. It never was about peace and chaos, good and evil in the original show. It was about maintening balance between the four inherent forces of the world.
And it was FAR better this way
Agreed. And it was far better that this was a natural balancing rather than a random combination of some guy's idea, a spirit who agrees to go along with it, luck, and the lion turtle's cooperation.
TLA hints at a time before the Avatar. But that stuff was better left a mystery.
Sometimes I wish parts of Korra were wiped from Avatar’s history. Like that live action abomination was.
@@kaisawatson "An avatar, a concept in Hinduism that means "descent", is the material appearance or incarnation of a deity on earth. The relative verb to "alight, to make one's appearance" is sometimes used to refer to any guru or revered human being." That is the literal google translation. So the avatar in the show being the human who houses the light spirit Raava still technically fits.
@@nemasisdemarini8339 There is a HUGE difference between the concepts of "incarnation" and "host". In LoK, the avatar is merely a "vessel" for Ravaa, and is nothing special without her. While in atla, aang was an "incarnation" of the balance of the 4 forces of the world (at least before it got retcon by Lok).
when i think of 'light' and 'darkness' i dont think good and evil like most people do myself, light contains hope, order, integrity, and of course heat, darkness is passion, chaos, selfishness, and cold the two both bring something to the world, too much light and everything burns, too much dark and we all turn into blocks of ice, too much hope and we become blind to the evils around us, too much passion and we loose ourselves to baser needs...but still there are those for whome such a life is preferable
there are very few things in the world taht can be called objectivly good or evil acts as what is good or evil depends on the colective moral code of your culture.
So true! Morality is a social construct and due to socialization for centuries humans somewhat getting better
My version of an opposing avatar is one who can only master secondary elements. Lightning, metal, blood, and sound(?)
月読の世界 I was thinking this too
So..... The opposing Avatar is a metalhead?
it’s not possible idk because you need to know how to bend the original elements to bend the secondary elements just a thought
metal is connected to rock,Blood is connected to water and Lightning is connected to fire so i think they need to master the primary elements first
Makes no sense, metalbending is only a thing as metal has earth particles. That's literally how Toph learns it. Also bloodbending is a thing as blood is biologically mostly water.
Fire nation: hand sanitizer
Air nomads: 99.9% of germs
Aang: that .01% of germ living his life
Just want to add there already is a canonical evil avatar: Yang-Chen. This goes all the way back to season 2. The reason Kuruk is able to live in peace and casual stoner-mindset, is that Yang-Chen so thoroughly pacified the world that no one dared to declare war for almost 100 years. Her original bio even described her as "ruthless and uuncompromising".
A peace which needed to find balance in Chin the Conqueror during Kiyoshi's reign....Kiyoshi who created the Dai Li. Though let's be fair that is more shown as something that got corrupted after 200 years.
And Kiyoshi did end up regretting the creation of the Dai Li.
Not evil morally dubious maybe but never evil
Tim: morals vary from nation to nation, like the Fire Nation has strict codes of conduct around loyalty and
Bootleg Zuko: MY HONOR!
Me: ded *can't breathe* XD
What an interesting theory! I honestly have never thought about this, while it makes total sense! And your arguments are very well made. I love the way you categorized this video into three parts.
I have been watching your channel for the past few months and I can say with certainty that I am in love with your content. I love your quirky personality and all the unique theories you present to us, as well as your editing style and your decision to focus on the good, fun parts of the fandoms you look into. I'm very glad to have discovered your channel and I am looking forward to your new content in 2019. Much love from Greece.
I don't like fruit cake at all but if I was at a friend's birthday party I'd gladly have a slice
Are you implying that the Avatar isn't already evil?
Ooh, interesting. Please elaborate X3
I think it means that the avatar while a spirit of good, can technically be a flawed individual. Aanv for example was a selfish person, who put his ideology before the world when he fought Ozai. He did everything he could to cling to the beliefs of his people. Evil, real evil, is the act of malice consciously.
*illuminati music plays*
I always felt the avatar can be selfish, Fire and Earth avatars weren't very nice.
@@Tethloach1 roku was cool just slow to act
When you were talking about a nazi Avatar, I immediately thought of Kuvira's ideology. Her primary purpose was Order. When the Earth queen was defeated the Earth kingdon was in chaos, so Kuvira stepped up to stop bandit raids and unify the land once again. Well, we know what that led to and that her order was oppression in disguise, forcing people to choose between "peace" and submission or death, but she herself perceived her intentions to be good. I can definitely see an Avatar sharing her ideology if faced with similar circumstances and having a similar character - and if you see Raava as a spirit of order and peace, then wouldn't that be in line with her desposition?
I've been rolling a fanfic idea around my head - a prequel story (of which certain details have since been contradicted by Avatar Wan's backstory, but screw it, I don't care) that would begin with an antagonistic Avatar: essentially a war leader for an aggressive Water Empire (unified global War Tribe with large-scale flood tactics). Story opens with the Avatar being assassinated... and the new avatar being the assassin's newborn son. This is realized years later - both factions want him for their own ends, new avatar runs away, and tries to rebalance the world under the guidance of a Guru, who blames himself for the previous Avatar's fall to darkness. Also, difficulty reaching the Avatar state since new!Avatar naturally has a poor view of his immediate predecessor.
Kimarous this sounds super cool. Would 10/10 read.
Kyoshi: *peace was never an option*
17:55 I was waiting for you to plug your Patreon but instead you encouraged people to donate to those in need. Gained sooo much respect for you
The motive of peace can be used in good or evil ways. Equally so, the motive of chaos can be used in good or evil ways. It all depends on the context of the two.
No, peace is peace. Warping the definition of it isn't peace. True peace means you respect, care for, & include everyone (doing things that benefit everyone). You can't use peace for evil (people warp the definition & claim peace, but, in reality, they're lying/tricking others into following them).
peace (noun) -
1. freedom from disturbance; tranquility.
2. a state or period in which there is no war or a war has ended.
What you said peace is, isn't the definition of peace, it's your personal idea of a utopia. The difference being what you said is an ideal, whereas the definition is what's commonly accepted by the general public.
Peace through fear and intimidation, or peace through death, or even peace through the end of existence are all still forms of peace, though not forms we need nor want.
James Kindrick death and fear are disturbances
Join me and rule the galaxy as father and son. End this conflict and bring peace and order.
Wait if rava can make a avatar isn't there a chance that the evil guy can make a evil Avatar?
Kyoshi didn't say that she would kill him again, she said if it lead to stopping him, she would have killed him. A small distinction but it makes a huge difference. The big thing is that everyone treats her as a person who is kill-crazy, and will stop at nothing to get what she wants. She was trying to make a point, one that I feel goes over most people's heads. If you cause someone's death, it is the same as killing them. So by that logic, if I took your food away, and you starved, it is the same as killing you myself. She wanted Aang to know that he was too caught up in the words themselves to realize that he had actually been killing along his journey already (I will go to war about this if people want to challenge it) and that him saying he won't kill, doesn't make him any less a killer. If he had understood this then he would have had an easier time dealing with Ozai as frankly, he deserved to die much more than all of the soldiers that Aang drowned getting to him, or buried in an avalanche...or concussed in the middle of nowhere and left them for dead. Man is more brutal than he knows because he won't admit it.
Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
An evil avatar would essentially be Pain from Naruto
Or Madara more powerful and is forcing his change onto the world
As interesting as an evil Avatar might be, I'd honestly _just_ like to see one good animated fight with a waterbender that has mastered _all_ facets of waterbending.
I'll bet money they could pull off one of those sweet 'avatar bubbles' like in the original series' finale, though with water, ice, steam and the like.
The new avatar is Australian
No one:
Hello Future Me: The Avatar is objectively bad...
UntoDawn VII Well, you people do live in the fire nation...
I was thinking of running an RPG where the avatar is split between two twins. One with the power to bend all the elements, and one with the wisdom of their past lives, and with the avatar state without the ability to bend.
I was planning on having the bender avatar be a villain with a tyrannical quest for power, while one of the players is the knowledge avatar who quests to stop their twin.
Love this idea, chepeau
how about "twin avatars"?
the "avatar of order/raava" (lawfull-any) that want a status quo, law, order
the "avatar of chaos/vatuu" (chaotic-any) that wants change, freedom ,oportunity
that way you have 2 "earth avatars" and you can have a debate of "freedom/security" with no nesesary evil, or at the very least not by nature.
Mishka is always welcome in your videos #AllHailMishka
I feel like an evil avatar would make an interesting plot. Oh dear my fanfic writer is starting to stir
I'd actually love to see an evil Avatar for a more adult audience and darker themes and a non happy end
Nice Meme The third series should be either a prequel or the Avatar as the big bad or fallen hero style villain protagonist.
Prodigi50 or an anti hero avatar
When you say "Not a happy end", what do you mean exactly?
As it is, the ending of the original, and LoK for that matter, are fairly bittersweet. There are multiple notable deaths in each series, and while things are on the upswing in general, there are a number of characters that come out worse for wear.
By not happy, the evil avatar dying? Or so much destruction that defeating the avatar is pyrrhic? Especially since the protagonists know & fear the next incarnation.
SaberToothPortilla maybe it turns out fairly good (in comparison) for the other characters but not the avatar himself. If it's not a prequel, they could even kill him in the avatar state off thus ending the avatar cycle and the series. Or they make the avatar an antagonist and write it from his enemies perspective
Can you imagine if Zuko was the Avatar??
Like if the title referred to Zuko as the Avatar and Aang was the last airbender. Maybe Zuko ran away to hide his ability from his father (or his father trained him to be the ultimate war weapon and hunt down threats like Aang) and Aang was traveling the world to preserve the memory of his people and search for survivors or something then they come together? 🧐🧐🧐
Also imagine Azula as the avatar, it would be so chaotic lmao
Then Aang wouldn't be alive if he wasn't the Avatar lol he would be dead so there would be no memory to preserve because they don't have an actual airbender alive that could tell them how to preserve the Air Nomad culture?? If Zuko was the Fire Avatar then the Air Nomads would be permanently wiped out.
I always figured the Avatar, being Wan reborn over and over again, was really just different versions of the same person who at their core still held values towards peace and overall goodness. Because of that I doubt they could ever be truly evil, just dangerously misguided. At the end of the day the Avatar isn't an infallible god.
As we've seen they're just as capable of making incredibly damaging mistakes due their own biases and relationships just like other human beings, such as Roku not stopping Sozen just because they were friends once. They're just super powered people trying to do the best that they can in the name of being the world peacekeeper.
Could they ever be actually evil at heart though? I doubt it, though it would be an interesting storyline if the show ever gets picked up again. Maybe it could be a group of normal people and benders taking down an Avatar who decided taking over was the easiest way for everyone to get along, or even an Avatar reborn after a previous life took over everything taking down this empire? The possibilities for this are endless.
But Wan wasn't an initially good person. He did bad things, and the show showed him doing good deeds immediately after he did the bad deed to force feed viewers into thinking he was actually good at heart. But he was actually just very cocky and overconfident and had a very higher-than-thou look towards other humans.
He did eventually outgrow this side of him and went on to become a better person, but the way reincarnations work is that once you are reborn as a normal person, you are a different person with different values and feelings. You will never hold the core values of a past life. That is how it is believed to work.
@@whiffynvm that makes sense but I wonder if Ravaa being part of the avatar makes things different for the avatar. The avatar literally has "peace" within them. They have the memories of the last avatars in the back of their minds.
I think the better exemple was the dai li. Kyoshi created them at a time balance was needed, but the balance they wanted to perpetuate make them evil at some point. They keep order in ba sing se for century, but at the cost of freedom. And when they saw an opportunity to align with a new order they embrace it, even against liberty and the will of the current avatar aang at that Time. And they did not change in 75 years, they are still the one who make order prevail about chaos for the earth kingdom, but its from a bit of chaos that come progress, from a bit of disorder that the world move forward... And i still wonder what they could do in the earth kingdom after the fall of Kuvira. Nothing good i guess...
that is so true, this is also explains korra's wrong in her last say in season 2 where she says avatar wan made a mistake, no he didn't. At that time spirits and humans were at war, that's the reason he locked the spirit portal along with vaatu, bcoz at that time, it was needed to calm the battle between both of them. It's not that korra did something wrong by letting both portals open but she couldn't handle it properly afterwards.
@@prateiklohani2461 So many times we think we are doing the right thing, but often it has consequences we had never imagined..
Lemaire Yves the “protecting city at the cost of freedom” sounds like modern china to me,...
@@tomascao1628 the compromise of safety and freedom is millenia old.
The Dai Li were usurped and corrupted. They followed orders. Each individual Dai Li agent did their job. I'm not saying that they didn't believe that what they were doing was right, just that they didn't come up with the strategies. Under a new command, the Dai Li could have been just like any secret service or police. They could be the KGB, CIA or MI6. They could be Rainbow 6. They could be like Coruscant lower guards and be entirely covered and identity protected and act only as riot police. The possibilities of the Dai Li depend entirely on the state of Ba Sing Se. In a time of ignorance and war, they were tyrannical. As all tyrants are. In a time of peace and freedom, they can be regular everyday people with better training. As all police are. Or they can be in the middle. As all military police are.
I love the Dai Li, personally. They're interesting. But fragile and corruptable.
Why all of the cartoon series and TV shows and movies are always about "good guys". For once I would love to see something from the perspective of so called "evil". Not those who want world domination or something, but from the perspective of those villains who actually have a reason to be "evil".
peachmay there’s a ton of cartoons about bad guys
So like Zuko's parts in the original Avatar?
peachmay you just described death note
Watch Death Note its really good
House of cards
An Avatar who isn't the main character of the show could be awesome.
kinda like Darth vader,he's the chosen one and was taught good but he got corrupted by palapatine