Your videos really helped me in skipping the trad cat and eastern catholic phase. I instead chose to go straight to Eastern Orthodoxy after watching your iceberg video.
As a catholic I would recommend not to stop here since a lot of information here is not correct. Push questions further and at the end of the day you will get your answer to question: "Among all of those that calls themselves True Church, where can I relay find it?". And question will be: True Church is exactly where God said it will be. God himself has shown to his Church in a way that no one can say: "I couldn't understand". And yes, it is that simple.
@DM-bh2gg I wholeheartedly agree I will be learning as much as I physically can, I'm not convinced of either side at the moment, but videos like these help expand my knowledge and information. Do you have any material that I can read and learn from?
Luigi is Orthodoxy's newest soldier. He will lead the front charge along with Jay Dyer, Kyle, David Erhan and more. (Jay Dyer absolutely DESTROYED Islam with Sam)
@@putent9623pretty sure he already had a debate with horn and he kinda destroyed him but also dyer definitely doesn’t convince others of orthodoxy very well through his debates as it’s a little to complex for the laymen, Sam on the other hand may debate but it’s unlikely as he isn’t really catholic he has more in common theologically with orthodox then Catholicism
@@Christopher_Irons Jesus spoke about the chair of Moses, gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, prophesied that there will be one flock and one shepherd and told him three times to take care of his flock.
As a catholic, I would like to point out that the vast majority of novus ordo masses are very reverent and serious and that the extreme cringe only happens in extreme cases.
@@GreatMindsYT I have decided to stop listening to the catholic vs orthodox debate, since it's an endless ping-pong game. The Holy Spirit is still with the church and there have been so many important catholic saints who lived recently, such as Carlo Acutis and others. Stop listening to online apologists.
@@Abcdefg_h62dzz there have been many recent orthodox saints too, online apologists help a bit with knowing the arguments but i do agree we shouldn't only listen to them. priests also talk on these things and looking into church history yourself aswell is a good thing to do. i'll use a roman catholic quote but change it a bit to say this but to be deep into history is the cease being roman catholic.
Orthodox critucusing catholicism gives me vibes of an atheist criticising agnosticism. Sure, there are differences, but at the end of a day it is still the most in line with your beliefes mainstream belief other than yours
@@dumbnumb162 It was more comment about channel than video, let me explain: From what I see, author is American. In USA the biggest branch of Christianity is baptism and other American protestants. The most growing religion is lack of religion and from perspective of the whole word, Islam. The largest play list on this channel is "watch this if you are catholic", what suggest apologetics against Catholicism is maybe not main, but biggest focus. In this landscape it doesn't make sense for me. All other believes are still far further from orthodoxy, so maybe it would be more beneficial to change approach to "Catholicism is not best, but still better than most alternatives, especially for Americans. Therefore is would be better to still have objections, but work together than attack". Even moving from baptism or Methodist to European protestantism like Lutheran or Anglican would be small. but change for the better. And from couple of videos I saw on this channel, it looks for me like it was less about fighting for the truth, but about author still being trad, who changed religion to be more consistent in being trad, but this might be only what looks like, not what was in real live. Edit: now i remember there was in psychology think called "narcissism of small differences". It is a concept, that a groups have bigger rivalry and hostility towards groups very similar, but not identical, and that how I would summarize attitude towards Catholicism on this channel. But in current time I think we should come over this narcissism and work together,
@@TakiGosc427 Kyle’s biggest playlist is “watch if you’re atheist”, with “watch this you’re catholic” being third. One is not going to “work together” and aim for the better alternative. Its aim for the truth, the best alternative. Kyle criticizes Catholicism because of the split. Orthodoxy and Catholism are the two biggest apostolic branches, and Kyle’s criticism may result from its big following. Wanting it to be wake up call for Catholics.
@@dumbnumb162 orthodox is 3rd largest branch with 11% Christians, almost 90% are either protestant or catholic. Truth is not binary in a sense of "you are either 100% true or all alternatives, including 90% true are just equally false". With exception being materialist. In this case all believes with God or god's, heaven, hell, reincarnation etc are just false. And still I think it's more beneficial to be 1% true than 0%. It's kind of like vegan arguing vegetarian is just as bad as meat eater. If you think using animal-based product is bad, then eating everything except meat is still better than eating everything. And the more I read about orthodoxy the more I can't help but notice how most differences are pedantic nuances rather than serious problems with exception of filioque and old testament canon. Purgatory? It's not question if people with light sin goes to heaven or have to be purged, but where are they purged. Celibacy? Bishops and monks of both branches do celibacy, it's only question about deacons and even in catholics there are exceptions. Theosis or sanctification? They're not even contradictory to each other, one is what to do to be saved and other is how it works. Papacy? It's about how authoritative his words are and, suprise, most catholics on daily basis disagree with pipes on various topics. Calendar? Some eastern orthodox use western calendar. Autocephaly? Catholics have Sui iuris. In fact, Sui iuris is mor catholic, as in universal, than autocephaly since for example Ukrainian orthodox is considered schismatic for russian orthodox which. resulted in schizm in 2018. American orthodox church is also not recognised by, for example, ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople because he thinks russian orthodox does not have right to give autonomy.
beautiful you mentioned the Myrrh baring Icon of the holy Theotokos and baby Jesus. i was blessed that my lips were able to kiss and venerate this icon, it passed through a serbian Orthodox Church in Dandenong, Victoria, Australia. Everyone that venerated it after me said they felt no Myrrh on their lips but for some reason i felt it on my lips and i saw it with my eyes that it was streaming with Myrrh, i thank God for showing me this. Glory to The Father and to The Son and to The Holy Spirit. Amen. I hope you have a blessed weekend.
This guy says that the RCC teaches that if a Pope declares a council ecumenical then it must be. This is not true. His whole argument rested on that one false premise.
What about western rite Orthodoxy? Does it feel empty too? What is it like compared to the TLM? Could someone who has been to both share his/her insight?
I know that there’s also an Orthodox church in Lourdes. One of the (I want to say Russian) bishops sponsored Lourdes as a place of devotion to the Theotokos, although ideas of the immaculate conception are not as emphasized or understood differently.
I'm doing the same thing Luigi did and watching the best orthodox apologists rn (Like you ofc, Jay Dyer, etc) and really trying to snuff out what is true. I'm 14, became catholic from protestant at 12 when I looked into it (I know, I'm young lol) but now I'm really looking at the claims on both sides, and who knows, maybe ill be orthodox one day. Pray for me for guidance on this journey
Ive just recently been getting into the Bible and have been learning more than I ever had about Jesus. Im just having a hard time with all the different denominations and it all just doesn't make much sense to me.
That's understandable, I've really struggled too. For the time being I recommend just reading the Bible and praying and growing your relationship with God. When your ready and feeling more secure, you can then research all the different denominations and choose for yourself ( I chose Orthodoxy 😉). You'll choose what feels right for you. God bless!
What the fathers are talking about is economic procession, manely that the Holy Spirit is eternally caused by the Father and is sent forward to creation by the Son. Latin Catholics confuse hypostatic procession and economic procession, and they twist the words of the Holy Fathers.
there was already a thorough response to that from the channel "orthodox christian theology". videos titled "the Church Fathers DID NOT Teach the Filioque" & "Response to Dwong and the Filioque: Part 1" (& Part 2)
when Luihi mentioned that it was love at first sight, on minimal exposure and seeing the reverence, I can IOO% fully agree that has been my experience as well, looking to further inquire and possibly become catechuman by the end of this year 🙏📿
I don't want to be mean or anything, but I don't understand your constant attacks on Catholicism. We're on the same side of the barricade, after all (especially since doctrinal issues don't divide us that much). To me, it looks similar to communists who hate socialists more than capitalists. If you wanted to do something more useful, instead of attacking other Christians, you could start converting Muslims, atheists, Mormons or Jews. Lots of greetings from a Catholic
It is unfortunately very different nowadays, there are many doctrinal differences (energy-essence distinction, filioque) but mainly papal supremacy creates a completely humanist theology and philosophy
It feels to me like Orthodox can’t exist by themselves without attacking Catholics whereas Catholics don’t have the need to attack Orthodox and don’t attack Orthodox. If anything Catholics view Orthodox as their real brother in Christ with valid sacraments and Apostolic succession, but Orthodox don’t afford Catholic the same curtesy. There’s this feeling of anger from Orthodox towards Catholic. Doesn’t seem very Christ like.
@@halfwaydead3087, By the time of the Fourth Crusade, Byzantium had already fallen. I am a Polish Catholic, and despite everything the Orthodox Church did to my countrymen and ancestors (the Uman massacre, persecution after the partitions of Poland, etc.) I do not feel hatred towards the Orthodox
@jakubkosz1009 and I as the laity don't feel any hatred towards you or the Catholics,I think the reason why we can't unite is because of our history and our saints like josaphat of polosky and alexis toth
Ehhh not really most of it was refutable. As a papist I think the best one was that one “errors of the Catholics” video. Most of Kyle’s stuff is pretty refutable. Same with Luigi, but I’ll cut him some slack because he’s still new to this stuff (I think)
When you showed the photo of Pope Francis wearing a cross that looks like the pride flag, you were being misleading. He was not wearing a pride cross; he was wearing the Latin American Youth Ministry cross. You should not try to trick people with pictures without showing the proper context.
We do have some within Church conflicts. Currently the main one is about the role of Constantinople Patriarch. But Catholics (from my point of view) have far more conflicts like German, African, China catholics disagreeing with Rome on some questions as well as some cardinals or well known individuals like Mel Gibson (who is sedeprivationist)
The people of Rome elected Martin's successor whilst Martin was still alive So, unlike other times of pope/anti-pope at this time there were two legitimate popes at the same time
Besides most this video being opinion based, nothing about this video is convincing because it is just a string of vague comments with no conclusions or answers. I can see how this would be convincing to someone who does not truly understand Catholic Church teachings, just like majority of the audience of this video.
Your comment didn't actually say anything? This video shows how Papal supremacy was not believed in the first 1000 years and there is lots of evidence to support that... Rome has actually admitted they are wrong in Recent Alexandria & Chieti documents.. I have a whole playlist on the topic: th-cam.com/play/PL6eyVWFC0v8dRxtTvcdACuo3AOkvB9eb3.html&si=GxLVhs6U53zpwScF I used to be Catholic... my first video is why I left.. God bless
@@OrthodoxKyle This is not true. The important role of the bishop of Rome can be seen throughout history. For example, in the events before the First Council of Ephesus in 431. In 429, when Nestorius, as bishop of Constantinople, began to proclaim his heresies that Mary was not the Theotokos. Outraged protesting Christians wrote to the bishop of Rome to resolve the conflict. Nestorius also explained himself to the aforementioned in his letters. It was the bishop of Rome who reacted and asked the bishop of Alexandria for help in combating Nestorianism. There are many examples of the important role of the bishop of Rome in the history of the Church and his leading role, for example in resolving conflicts. This results from the authority he had from the very beginning
"When two or more are gathered" When Jesus said this He was talking about the business of the church, His church. That's the reason for the councils and the discussion and defense of the true faith. Ergo, no Immaculate Conception, No Purgatory, No Filioque!
Keys that binds are not given to many, but to one. There is no escape from what we bind, and there is nothing that you can bind without us. As for topics you mention, Catholic Church is right in every single one of them.
I will say though, and I know that you probably know this, the copts also place the eucharist in the hand of the worshipper. I know your opinions on the oriental churches but this was not a point of contention back in the day.
I really like orthodox christianity, in my vision it is the true church, but, there is no orthodox church nearby me so I can attend to, then I'm attending to roman catholic churches nearby my house to don't be "out" of church. Am I wrong for doing it?
@@OrthodoxKyle appreciate it and I’ll check out the video. But I mean have an actual conversation with him if possible. If not him Trent Horn would be another great person to talk to (Live) regarding this subject. Not a debate but just a conversation
The Church of Rome would be better IF it renounces the filioque, papal supremacy, papal infallibility, purgatory, marian inventions outside the Theotokos/Mater Dei, and the Vatican 2.
Me and a friend tried debunking Papal Supremacy on my channel,It doesnt have much views but if anyone wants to see the video and review the points feel free =)
@@CrippieMannster thank you brother ❤️☦️ soon! I'm a Catechumen! I'll be Baptized and Crismated next Pascha God willingly. Please pray for me. God bless
Now I have material to debate my Catholic father haha. For context, I was baptized as Orthodox when I was an infant, but left the religion after someone in my family passed away. I became an atheist because from my point of view, God isn't real because bad things happen. Looking back, I know it was a very dumb excuse. 6 years later, I started considering religion again because I was feeling empty inside. I was bouncing between agnosticism and atheism while considering Islam, Catholicism, and Buddhism. Then the Lord Jesus saved me and showed me the truth in Orthodoxy. I tried proving my point to Catholics at my school that the Pope's hunger for power resulted in the Great Schism, but they wouldn't listen or come up with an excuse. Finally, I can use the points in this video as well as the quotes from the saints to show why Orthodoxy is the first church.
Speaking of the schism, there were many reasons for it. Using your logic, it would be fair to say that the bishop of Constantinople was just as hungry for power as the bishop of Rome was for it. However, this is a failure to take into account the reality. Until 1054, the bishop of Rome was the arbiter in resolving inter-church disputes. In my opinion, the cultural differences that began to deepen after the division of the empire were much more important in the schism.
@@jakubkosz1009 in Orthodoxy, the bishop of Constantinople isn't the head of the church. Each branch has its own patriarch who meets with the others to discuss important matters.
@@Ivan-dg8qm, I know, but he is spiritual head of the church. In this way, he plays the role that the Bishop of Rome played until the schism ( for instance the dispute between Nestorius and the rebellious people of Constantinople was resolved in front of the Bishop of Rome)
@@jakubkosz1009 there was an entire council of bishops who opposed Nestorianism. It's not like one man declared it heresy. The patriarch of Constantinople is not the spiritual head of the church. Each area has its own patriarch, who is honoured by all Orthodox Christians.
@@Ivan-dg8qm Did I say that the council was the bishop of Rome? I only wrote that it was the angry crowd of Constantinople who turned their conflict to the pope, considering him as an arbitrator. The council was convened later
There is this very niche theory that God was a dragon that ate female virgins and collected gold and that Jesus was his shapeshifting reptile son. It already sounds so stupid but I'm hoping you can make a video debunking it.
It feels to me like Orthodox can’t exist by themselves without attacking Catholics whereas Catholics don’t have the need to attack Orthodox and don’t attack Orthodox. If anything Catholics view Orthodox as their real brother in Christ with valid sacraments and Apostolic succession, but Orthodox don’t afford Catholic the same curtesy. There’s this feeling of anger from Orthodox towards Catholic. Doesn’t seem very Christ like.
It’s like their whole identity is actively doing the opposite of what Catholicism is doing just to spite. They’re reactionary and always try to put a wedge between unity while online
There is not? Not particularly more than any other denomination. If you go around saying that you are the one true church, it is expected that you will find people who will rightly refute you. This is just rhetoric. A protestant can say that "There's this feeling of anger from Catholics towards LGBT people, doesn't seem very Christ like" This is why we don't appeal to "feelings" and subjective opinions.
I had a very similar experience to Luigi the first time I experienced the Divine Liturgy. There was a deeply profound and transformative reality of being surrounded by thousands of years of witnesses including my grandfather who, though protestant, was a very very devout man. I used to be SSPX and have even attended the traditional latin mass at the Immaculata (SSPX's new cathedral). I understand enough Latin to understand the prayers but it still felt like a "cheap ripoff" of the Divine Liturgy.
I'm writing this comment a few days after I wrote my previous one. As a catholic, I start to realize that maybe there is something very wrong about my church. If we consider how many superstitions were seemingly considered catholic dogma until a few decades ago (such as the hatred towards left-handed people and the tortures done by the inquisition), how ugly is most of modern church art and architecture I've seen recently compared to what I saw in Greece, how watered down is the liturgy compared to what apparently was it like during the middle ages and some other things, even though the modern pope is not a liberal at all (sadly news protray him as such), I start to question whether catholicism is still right or not. Guys pray for me.
You will find similar things in every church, but that does not discredit the faith. Catholics, Orthodox, or Protestants, there are sinners everywhere (we are all mutes). When it comes to horrible things, the Orthodox Church has done them too (for example, supporting the massacre of Poles in Uman, now the war in Ukraine, or persecuting the Catholic Church after the partition of Poland (I am Polish, so I write about topics that are familiar to me). Choosing a church because of its architecture is not very wise (because it can always change and depends on the individual building). When it comes to "superstitions", you can find them everywhere (can send examples). Don't worry
@@hayeshopper8998 ahhh, ok this is that clip that has Eric Ybarra with his mouth open after their apologist admits the orthodox position. i remember now. Thanks!
It is not insulting to use Biblical arguments against position of Eastern orthodox, and there is no assumption that they have reasonable response to what Catholics are showing from Bible. Classical argument from Mt 16: "15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Catholic interpretation: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. Non-catholic interpretation: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, and neither did my Father which is in heaven reviled to you specificity, but to all of you that are here. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Catholic interpretation: - You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church Non-catholic interpretation: - You are Peter and upon this rock I will not build my church 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Catholic interpretation: And I will give you keys of kingdom of heaven and whatsoever you bind on earth shell be bound in heaven... Non-catholic interpretation: And I will NOT give you keys of kingdom of heaven and whatsoever you bind on earth shell NOT be bound in heaven... So, yeah, we don't accept that kind of evasive dismiss of Bible and we do think that your interpretation is not only unreasonable, but is also heretical.
As for Church history arguments, ok, that is another topic to talk about... and in this regard: you are wrong on Filioque. That, in itself, close the question about history. This is simplified answer, but it is 100% correct. To same conclusion we would get even if we would ignore Filioque, but since we will not ignore it, that question in itself is sufficient to close this topic.
Your "non catholic interpretation" is not the Orthodox interpretation, this argument is good against protestants but fails when talking about Orthodoxy, are you ignorant of our position? Because Luigi didn't say it's an insult for no reason
You're literally straw manning our position here. Many church fathers (even Western, such as Augustine) did not hold the modern Catholic eisegesis of this text. The episcopacy as a whole was considered to be Petrine, not merely Rome. So yea, you don't even know the argument.
meanwhile... St.John Chrysostom:“But observe how Peter does everything with the common consent; nothing imperiously.” St.John Chrysostom:“And I say unto thee, ‘Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church,’ that is, on the faith of his confession.” St.Augustine:“He had not the primacy over the disciples (in discipulos) but among the disciples (in discipulis).His primacy among the disciples was the same as that of Stephen among the deacons.”
On the topic on innovations, what's your response to the Orthodox Church ordaining their first deaconness in May? Edit: I would like to apologise to the entirety of the Orthodox Community the misunderstanding of the issue was 100% my fault.
As a member of the Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria (where this incident happened), I can tell you now that the local Bishop repented for his action, since he did it on his own accord. He has since retracted the "office" of Deaconess, so It's not at all officially implemented in the Alexandrian church yet. If it becomes official, then anathema to the Patriarch of Alexandria. Remember that in orthodoxy, we view no bishop to be infallible
The female diaconate existed for many centuries for the East and West, however it was abolished once it became unnecessary However this occurrence is different, as previously the female Deacon was never permitted for liturgical purposes, such as serving the Eucharist. The Orthodox position does not fall apart just because the Patriarch of Alexandria is unfaithful. Many Bishops will fall away. Nestorius was the Patriarch of Constantinople. Just because one man made an error does not debunk our view, especially considering many Bishops have condemned his actions.
I think we often make more of receiving on the hand than need be. We know that reception on the hand was church wide and common throughout the early Church. Saying otherwise really makes one sound like a TLM supremacist. The purpose of receiving via instruments was done for logistic purposes not sacredness. The idea that it is less reverent to receive on the hand is condemned in the Council of Trullo. Canon 101 states, The great and divine Apostle Paul with loud voice calls man created in the image of God, the body and temple of Christ. Excelling, therefore, every sensible creature, he who by the saving Passion has attained to the celestial dignity, eating and drinking Christ, is fitted in all respects for eternal life, sanctifying his soul and body by the participation of divine grace. Wherefore, if any one wishes to be a participator of the immaculate Body in the time of the Synaxis, and to offer himself for the communion, let him draw near, arranging his hands in the form of a cross, and so let him receive the communion of grace. But such as, instead of their hands, make vessels of gold or other materials for the reception of the divine gift, and by these receive the immaculate communion, we by no means allow to come, as preferring inanimate and inferior matter to the image of God. But if any one shall be found imparting the immaculate Communion to those who bring vessels of this kind, let him be cut off as well as the one who brings them.
Matthew 16.18 "Upon this rock I will build My Church" Roman Catholic interpretation: Upon you, Peter, I will build My church Non-Roman Catholic interpretation: Upon Himself, Christ the Rock He builds His church Matthew 16.18 Upon this Rock I will build My church. Roman-catholic interpretation: Upon Peter who was bishop of Rome Christ built the Roman Catholic sect Non-Roman Catholic interpretation: Upon Christ the Rock He built His church, and Christ is in heaven who builds His church on earth through all His apostles, not through Peter.
@@dumbnumb162usually, people who are the first to comment on a video say "first". But in this case, I was the third. But me being the third doesn't grant me any privilege over those who came before or after.
Paul explains it pretty well: For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.-1 Corinthians 11:23-26/St.Paul
@@dumbnumb162 what does that means We teach its symbolic and we do it in remembrance of Jesus because of he says it so Isn't Eucharist is the body and blood of Chris
@@princejohn982 yes. The Catholic and Orthodox view is that the Eucharist is the real blood of Jesus Christ. That the substance of the bread and wine changes and becomes the blood and wine of Jesus Christ. The “accidents” remain which gives it the appearance, taste, and smell of bread and wine, rather than if it were stolen blood from the hospital or as if someone were skinned.
Great work. I think this topic has been beat dead in the last 10 years. The papal quote mines don’t really work anymore. I think there needs to be more content/debates against the OO bc they have some proponents coming out with lots of videos. Might be worth having a debate and then a review on this specifically bc David’s vids are getting older. Could be his next topic so to say.
According to Chrysostom (3rd homily on Acts, chapter 2), Peter could have choose Matthias himself without the other apostle, but he didnt do it. According to Chrysostom, he had the autority, but didnt use it. How does that understanding reconcile with EO?
For most of his life St John Chrysostom was NOT in communion with the Bishop of Rome. St John Chrysostom taught that ALL the 12 had the Keys. How does this reconcile with your question brother? ☦☦☦
@@marcokite We believe as well all the apostles (and all the bishops) has the Keys, but through Peter as many Fathers recognized. There’s a distinction between the possession of an autority and the way or manner in which someone possess it. For exemple, Christ has the autority to forgive sins. The Apostles have the autority to forgive sins. Both have the same autority, but clearly Christ possess it in a different way. Eastern orthodox usually agree that Peter and the roman patriarch (lets say for the pre schism period) possess a primacy, not of jurisdiction, but of honor. Alright. But when you read Cyprian of Carthage (and God knows he’s changed his mind often so I agree that’s not the best example) writting that all the Apostles had the same honour and power/autority, you ask: if Cyprien says every apostle has the same honour, but it doesnt contradict the orthodox paradigm in which the Roman See possess a primacy of honour, then how can we say that Cyprian affirming that all the Apostles had the same autority contradict the idea of primacy of jurisdiction? Btw you’re right for Chrysostome not being in communion for a long period of time, but I just think EO is incomplete because even IF the papal infaillibility (and other papacy dogmas) are wrong, the Roman See would still be needed for having a true oecumenical council as wrote St Methodius.
It’s weird that the Benedict Mass, or TLM, will really only he held in Western Rite Orthodox Churches in the future. Since the Roman Catholic Church seems bent on destroying that beautiful liturgy. I think Catholics reading this should read into Western Rite Orthodoxy. If you want traditional, Western Christianity. You won’t find anything more traditional than that.
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18-19]). . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]). - St. Cyprian of Carthage Your Sect does not hold fast to the unity of Peter, Kyle. You have schismed from Peter. Thus, according to st. Cyprian, your heretical church does not hold the faith. Repent and come back to Catholicism, submit to Peter.
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II I will be the first to return to your Sect as soon as it denounces all of its heresies, embraces the Marian Dogmas, accepts the Pope's sovereignty and accepts the indisputable fact that the Holy Spirit proceeds from God the Son.
It is not the case that there is one church at Rome and another in all the world beside. Gaul and Britain, Africa and Persia, India and the East worship one Christ and observe one rule of truth. If you ask for authority, the world outweighs its capital. Wherever there is a bishop, whether it be at Rome or at Engubium, whether it be at Constantinople or at Rhegium, whether it be at Alexandria or at Zoan, his dignity is the same and his priesthood is the same. Neither the command of wealth nor the lowliness of poverty makes him more a bishop or less a bishop. All alike are successors of the apostles. St. Jerome Letter 146 to Evangelus (401 A.D.)
Don't forget about Peter's lead, read the Bible little boy❤ Acts 5:15 Acts 1:15-20 Acts 2:14-41 John 21:15-17 John 20:5-7 Matthew 16:13-20 John 6:68-70 Luke 22:31-32 Luke 5:3 Luke 12:41-48 Matthew 17:27 Mark 1:36 Isaiah 22:22
Bro you need to change the crosses in the thumbnail. All crosses are Orthodox (but also the first cross in your thumbnail is just a Greek cross so it looks like Orthodox vs Orthodox). Use a papal symbol instead. Funny hat or something idk.
Yo I got baptized in the Orthodox Church yesterday!! Glory to God!☦️🤲🏾
Congrats 🙌🏿
Amazing
Glory to God! I was received a few months ago! ☦☦☦
Αμήν! ☦️
Glory to the LORD. Congratulations
Your videos really helped me in skipping the trad cat and eastern catholic phase. I instead chose to go straight to Eastern Orthodoxy after watching your iceberg video.
Glory to God ☦☦
Many years!
The final step is to not fall into the Ecumenist Orthodox trap
@@alexmoreau2581 ?
@@hxplxss1835 He probably means to avoid Orthodox who want to unite with Catholics
As a protestant who is in a spiritual battle between Catholicism and Orthodoxy, you have no idea how much these videos help, thank you so much 🙏
As a catholic I would recommend not to stop here since a lot of information here is not correct. Push questions further and at the end of the day you will get your answer to question: "Among all of those that calls themselves True Church, where can I relay find it?". And question will be: True Church is exactly where God said it will be. God himself has shown to his Church in a way that no one can say: "I couldn't understand". And yes, it is that simple.
@DM-bh2gg I wholeheartedly agree I will be learning as much as I physically can, I'm not convinced of either side at the moment, but videos like these help expand my knowledge and information. Do you have any material that I can read and learn from?
@@jjunboxing000 I recommend Orthodoxy
@@DM-bh2gg i bet you haven't watched the video. if a lot of this is wrong then please enlighten us
Hope you come home to Orthodoxy (I used to be RC) ☦
Roman Catholic here, going to my first Divine Liturgy in 2 hours!
how was it?
How was it?
How was it?
How was it?
Luigi is Orthodoxy's newest soldier. He will lead the front charge along with Jay Dyer, Kyle, David Erhan and more. (Jay Dyer absolutely DESTROYED Islam with Sam)
Let’s go
Would be nice to see jay dyer vs Trent Horn orjay dyer vs sam shamoun
@@putent9623pretty sure he already had a debate with horn and he kinda destroyed him but also dyer definitely doesn’t convince others of orthodoxy very well through his debates as it’s a little to complex for the laymen, Sam on the other hand may debate but it’s unlikely as he isn’t really catholic he has more in common theologically with orthodox then Catholicism
Pope: im 100% infallible 40% of the time
Strawman.
Orthodox Councils: I'm 100% infallible… unless I’m one of the 100+ councils that were later dismissed.
@@petros-petraorthodoxy is revealed, things take time to be confirmed. We don’t arbitrarily pick and choose
@@n.h6001 We don't arbitrarily choose either, that's the point.
@petros-petra a old chair doesn't make a mortal man suddenly infallible, where did Jesus talk about that chair or mention a pope
@@Christopher_Irons Jesus spoke about the chair of Moses, gave Peter the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, prophesied that there will be one flock and one shepherd and told him three times to take care of his flock.
This is one of the best Orthodox videos I have seen. Keep up the good work!
literally all his arguments have been refuted a million times
@@CatholicElijah which ones and how?
@@buffcommie942 You're never getting an answer.
@@gawagames7877 it would seem unlikely
It’s strange. A few hours ago I just accidentally came across this issue and studied it a bit. And now you post this video😨
As a catholic, I would like to point out that the vast majority of novus ordo masses are very reverent and serious and that the extreme cringe only happens in extreme cases.
It goes to show that the holy spirit is not with the church.
@@GreatMindsYT I have decided to stop listening to the catholic vs orthodox debate, since it's an endless ping-pong game. The Holy Spirit is still with the church and there have been so many important catholic saints who lived recently, such as Carlo Acutis and others. Stop listening to online apologists.
@@Abcdefg_h62dzz the holy spirit is in neither church since it dont exist. Now go and enjoy you life
@@Abcdefg_h62dzz there have been many recent orthodox saints too, online apologists help a bit with knowing the arguments but i do agree we shouldn't only listen to them. priests also talk on these things and looking into church history yourself aswell is a good thing to do. i'll use a roman catholic quote but change it a bit to say this but to be deep into history is the cease being roman catholic.
@@sebozz2046 I will pray for you. Now stop being a sadist.
Orthodox critucusing catholicism gives me vibes of an atheist criticising agnosticism. Sure, there are differences, but at the end of a day it is still the most in line with your beliefes mainstream belief other than yours
this!
Doesn’t mean the other can’t be “criticized”. Its a matter of truth
@@dumbnumb162 It was more comment about channel than video, let me explain:
From what I see, author is American. In USA the biggest branch of Christianity is baptism and other American protestants. The most growing religion is lack of religion and from perspective of the whole word, Islam. The largest play list on this channel is "watch this if you are catholic", what suggest apologetics against Catholicism is maybe not main, but biggest focus.
In this landscape it doesn't make sense for me. All other believes are still far further from orthodoxy, so maybe it would be more beneficial to change approach to "Catholicism is not best, but still better than most alternatives, especially for Americans. Therefore is would be better to still have objections, but work together than attack". Even moving from baptism or Methodist to European protestantism like Lutheran or Anglican would be small. but change for the better.
And from couple of videos I saw on this channel, it looks for me like it was less about fighting for the truth, but about author still being trad, who changed religion to be more consistent in being trad, but this might be only what looks like, not what was in real live.
Edit: now i remember there was in psychology think called "narcissism of small differences". It is a concept, that a groups have bigger rivalry and hostility towards groups very similar, but not identical, and that how I would summarize attitude towards Catholicism on this channel. But in current time I think we should come over this narcissism and work together,
@@TakiGosc427 Kyle’s biggest playlist is “watch if you’re atheist”, with “watch this you’re catholic” being third. One is not going to “work together” and aim for the better alternative. Its aim for the truth, the best alternative. Kyle criticizes Catholicism because of the split. Orthodoxy and Catholism are the two biggest apostolic branches, and Kyle’s criticism may result from its big following. Wanting it to be wake up call for Catholics.
@@dumbnumb162 orthodox is 3rd largest branch with 11% Christians, almost 90% are either protestant or catholic. Truth is not binary in a sense of "you are either 100% true or all alternatives, including 90% true are just equally false". With exception being materialist. In this case all believes with God or god's, heaven, hell, reincarnation etc are just false. And still I think it's more beneficial to be 1% true than 0%. It's kind of like vegan arguing vegetarian is just as bad as meat eater. If you think using animal-based product is bad, then eating everything except meat is still better than eating everything.
And the more I read about orthodoxy the more I can't help but notice how most differences are pedantic nuances rather than serious problems with exception of filioque and old testament canon. Purgatory? It's not question if people with light sin goes to heaven or have to be purged, but where are they purged. Celibacy? Bishops and monks of both branches do celibacy, it's only question about deacons and even in catholics there are exceptions. Theosis or sanctification? They're not even contradictory to each other, one is what to do to be saved and other is how it works. Papacy? It's about how authoritative his words are and, suprise, most catholics on daily basis disagree with pipes on various topics. Calendar? Some eastern orthodox use western calendar. Autocephaly? Catholics have Sui iuris. In fact, Sui iuris is mor catholic, as in universal, than autocephaly since for example Ukrainian orthodox is considered schismatic for russian orthodox which. resulted in schizm in 2018. American orthodox church is also not recognised by, for example, ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople because he thinks russian orthodox does not have right to give autonomy.
This was really good, Lord bless you both
thank you! Hope you are doing well ☦
@OrthodoxKyle I'm doing well, by the grace of God, we should do a session soon Lord willing
beautiful you mentioned the Myrrh baring Icon of the holy Theotokos and baby Jesus. i was blessed that my lips were able to kiss and venerate this icon, it passed through a serbian Orthodox Church in Dandenong, Victoria, Australia. Everyone that venerated it after me said they felt no Myrrh on their lips but for some reason i felt it on my lips and i saw it with my eyes that it was streaming with Myrrh, i thank God for showing me this.
Glory to The Father and to The Son and to The Holy Spirit. Amen.
I hope you have a blessed weekend.
Please kyle what is that chant at 0:16 😢😢😢😢❤❤❤
kyle is doing the LORDS work
Kyle is a creationist dumbass
no, he just is doing his YT work for view
@@sebozz2046jesus denier warning 🖕
@@sebozz2046 why are you here?
@@CorfuRmenisthat’s not very nice could of said it more nicely
This guy might be the CEO of keyboard warriors
Excellent!
This guy says that the RCC teaches that if a Pope declares a council ecumenical then it must be.
This is not true.
His whole argument rested on that one false premise.
@orthodoxkyle amazing video with an amazing beard
thanks haha
What about western rite Orthodoxy? Does it feel empty too? What is it like compared to the TLM? Could someone who has been to both share his/her insight?
I would avoid it. There's very very few parishes that aren't absolutely packed with blasphemous liturgical abuses
Hey Kyle, what are your thoughts on Marian Apparitions in the Catholic Church? Do the Orthodox believe in them too?
The general answer is no, but some priests have told me that Guadalupe is probably real
I know that there’s also an Orthodox church in Lourdes. One of the (I want to say Russian) bishops sponsored Lourdes as a place of devotion to the Theotokos, although ideas of the immaculate conception are not as emphasized or understood differently.
the video ive been waiting for
I'm doing the same thing Luigi did and watching the best orthodox apologists rn (Like you ofc, Jay Dyer, etc) and really trying to snuff out what is true. I'm 14, became catholic from protestant at 12 when I looked into it (I know, I'm young lol) but now I'm really looking at the claims on both sides, and who knows, maybe ill be orthodox one day. Pray for me for guidance on this journey
Always keep unity in mind. Jesus commanded us to be one
Ive just recently been getting into the Bible and have been learning more than I ever had about Jesus. Im just having a hard time with all the different denominations and it all just doesn't make much sense to me.
That's understandable, I've really struggled too. For the time being I recommend just reading the Bible and praying and growing your relationship with God. When your ready and feeling more secure, you can then research all the different denominations and choose for yourself ( I chose Orthodoxy 😉). You'll choose what feels right for you. God bless!
Please, pray for me brothers and sisters, as I do not know if I should remain a RC or I should convert to EO and scared that I choose wrong.
Honey, Kyle just dropped. 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥
Catechumen chanter and alter server. I've never felt anything like being behind the altar. I can't put it into words.
Could you critique papal apologist dwongs video about the greek fathers teaching the filioque?
YES! kyle please see this comment🙏
Agree
What the fathers are talking about is economic procession, manely that the Holy Spirit is eternally caused by the Father and is sent forward to creation by the Son. Latin Catholics confuse hypostatic procession and economic procession, and they twist the words of the Holy Fathers.
there was already a thorough response to that from the channel "orthodox christian theology". videos titled "the Church Fathers DID NOT Teach the Filioque" & "Response to Dwong and the Filioque: Part 1" (& Part 2)
@@ascensive9837 thanks for informing me
when Luihi mentioned that it was love at first sight, on minimal exposure and seeing the reverence, I can IOO% fully agree that has been my experience as well, looking to further inquire and possibly become catechuman by the end of this year 🙏📿
I don't want to be mean or anything, but I don't understand your constant attacks on Catholicism. We're on the same side of the barricade, after all (especially since doctrinal issues don't divide us that much). To me, it looks similar to communists who hate socialists more than capitalists. If you wanted to do something more useful, instead of attacking other Christians, you could start converting Muslims, atheists, Mormons or Jews. Lots of greetings from a Catholic
It is unfortunately very different nowadays, there are many doctrinal differences (energy-essence distinction, filioque) but mainly papal supremacy creates a completely humanist theology and philosophy
It feels to me like Orthodox can’t exist by themselves without attacking Catholics whereas Catholics don’t have the need to attack Orthodox and don’t attack Orthodox. If anything Catholics view Orthodox as their real brother in Christ with valid sacraments and Apostolic succession, but Orthodox don’t afford Catholic the same curtesy.
There’s this feeling of anger from Orthodox towards Catholic.
Doesn’t seem very Christ like.
@americapires3742 well I'd feel betrayed if my brother left me in the Crusades, didn't help me with the Ottomans and listened to Frankish heresy
@@halfwaydead3087, By the time of the Fourth Crusade, Byzantium had already fallen. I am a Polish Catholic, and despite everything the Orthodox Church did to my countrymen and ancestors (the Uman massacre, persecution after the partitions of Poland, etc.) I do not feel hatred towards the Orthodox
@jakubkosz1009 and I as the laity don't feel any hatred towards you or the Catholics,I think the reason why we can't unite is because of our history and our saints like josaphat of polosky and alexis toth
Great video Kyle
Great video 🙏🏼☦️
Bruhh there's no way you finished the video it's been 2 minutes
@@Max_bond69Kyle's fans says that without even hearing his arguments 😆
Ehhh not really most of it was refutable. As a papist I think the best one was that one “errors of the Catholics” video. Most of Kyle’s stuff is pretty refutable. Same with Luigi, but I’ll cut him some slack because he’s still new to this stuff (I think)
good work kyle
thanks!
W Kyle and Luigi
When you showed the photo of Pope Francis wearing a cross that looks like the pride flag, you were being misleading. He was not wearing a pride cross; he was wearing the Latin American Youth Ministry cross. You should not try to trick people with pictures without showing the proper context.
Orthodox isnt united as one why i staued with Catholicism.
Makes sense. Heck the Russian church is still in schism
We do have some within Church conflicts. Currently the main one is about the role of Constantinople Patriarch. But Catholics (from my point of view) have far more conflicts like German, African, China catholics disagreeing with Rome on some questions as well as some cardinals or well known individuals like Mel Gibson (who is sedeprivationist)
@vereskovy_miod I don't know man. Isn't there still a schism since 2018 between Russia and Constantinople
@@aaronrodriguez1410 a schism within a schism you say?! Catholic church baby
@@aaronrodriguez1410 yeah, I mentioned it
The people of Rome elected Martin's successor whilst Martin was still alive
So, unlike other times of pope/anti-pope at this time there were two legitimate popes at the same time
Besides most this video being opinion based, nothing about this video is convincing because it is just a string of vague comments with no conclusions or answers. I can see how this would be convincing to someone who does not truly understand Catholic Church teachings, just like majority of the audience of this video.
Your comment didn't actually say anything? This video shows how Papal supremacy was not believed in the first 1000 years and there is lots of evidence to support that... Rome has actually admitted they are wrong in Recent Alexandria & Chieti documents.. I have a whole playlist on the topic: th-cam.com/play/PL6eyVWFC0v8dRxtTvcdACuo3AOkvB9eb3.html&si=GxLVhs6U53zpwScF I used to be Catholic... my first video is why I left.. God bless
@@OrthodoxKyle This is not true. The important role of the bishop of Rome can be seen throughout history. For example, in the events before the First Council of Ephesus in 431. In 429, when Nestorius, as bishop of Constantinople, began to proclaim his heresies that Mary was not the Theotokos. Outraged protesting Christians wrote to the bishop of Rome to resolve the conflict. Nestorius also explained himself to the aforementioned in his letters. It was the bishop of Rome who reacted and asked the bishop of Alexandria for help in combating Nestorianism. There are many examples of the important role of the bishop of Rome in the history of the Church and his leading role, for example in resolving conflicts. This results from the authority he had from the very beginning
@@jakubkosz1009 Just because appeals were made to the bishop of Rome doesn't mean papal supremacy. Appeals were made to other sees aswell.
@@SimoSIPI I have only outlined the visible tendency of the arbitrator's role held by the bishop of Rome
@@jakubkosz1009 But, church history shows that there were autocephalous churches in the first millennium. It was not a Papal System.
"When two or more are gathered" When Jesus said this He was talking about the business of the church, His church. That's the reason for the councils and the discussion and defense of the true faith. Ergo, no Immaculate Conception, No Purgatory, No Filioque!
Keys that binds are not given to many, but to one. There is no escape from what we bind, and there is nothing that you can bind without us.
As for topics you mention, Catholic Church is right in every single one of them.
Bro did not watch the video@@DM-bh2gg
@@DM-bh2gg
Matthew 18:18 says all the apostles have the keys.
I just feel like some of us are drawn to other places. He doesn't like the TLM but when I'm in a traditional mass I feel like I'm with God.
NEW KYLE VIDEO!!!☦️☦️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥
I will say though, and I know that you probably know this, the copts also place the eucharist in the hand of the worshipper. I know your opinions on the oriental churches but this was not a point of contention back in the day.
Hey Kyle did you see my comment on your previous video that I talked about OODE?
I really like orthodox christianity, in my vision it is the true church, but, there is no orthodox church nearby me so I can attend to, then I'm attending to roman catholic churches nearby my house to don't be "out" of church. Am I wrong for doing it?
I love both Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy ✝️☦️
You should speak with Jimmy Akin regarding this subject.
And while I get ur position, ultimately you’re wrong about the Supremacy of the Pope.
I have a video responding to what Jimmy Akin has said about Orthodoxy: th-cam.com/video/keH6lLqhies/w-d-xo.htmlsi=N1tq8jwDvwIltXH_
@@OrthodoxKyle appreciate it and I’ll check out the video. But I mean have an actual conversation with him if possible.
If not him Trent Horn would be another great person to talk to (Live) regarding this subject.
Not a debate but just a conversation
@@vman9347 Trent "The Trinity didn't exist in the OT" Horn???
@@iangregory9763 where’d he say that?
@@Seanain_O_hEarchai in a debate with Jay Dyer
The Gregorian Mass is beautiful so is the Divine Liturgy.
The Church of Rome would be better IF it renounces the filioque, papal supremacy, papal infallibility, purgatory, marian inventions outside the Theotokos/Mater Dei, and the Vatican 2.
Me and a friend tried debunking Papal Supremacy on my channel,It doesnt have much views but if anyone wants to see the video and review the points feel free =)
Big thank you brothers Luigy 💪and Kyle. And glory to Triune God.
Good morning gents
I’ve been listening to your music for a solid two years, never knew you were Orthodox brother! ☦️❤
@@CrippieMannster thank you brother ❤️☦️ soon! I'm a Catechumen! I'll be Baptized and Crismated next Pascha God willingly. Please pray for me. God bless
God Bless Kyle ☦️
God bless you
Kyle where did you buy you set of ante nicene and post nicene fathers? I am interested in buying them
Powerful video.
Please do episode on the Cathar Heresy and Béziers Massacre
God bless u my brother
God bless you 🙏🙏
12:46 is actually a traditional Lutheran liturgy lol
Matt 10.2...now these are the names of the twelve apostles; first Simon who is called Peter....
Yesssssss
☦️❤️
Now I have material to debate my Catholic father haha.
For context, I was baptized as Orthodox when I was an infant, but left the religion after someone in my family passed away. I became an atheist because from my point of view, God isn't real because bad things happen. Looking back, I know it was a very dumb excuse.
6 years later, I started considering religion again because I was feeling empty inside. I was bouncing between agnosticism and atheism while considering Islam, Catholicism, and Buddhism. Then the Lord Jesus saved me and showed me the truth in Orthodoxy.
I tried proving my point to Catholics at my school that the Pope's hunger for power resulted in the Great Schism, but they wouldn't listen or come up with an excuse. Finally, I can use the points in this video as well as the quotes from the saints to show why Orthodoxy is the first church.
Speaking of the schism, there were many reasons for it. Using your logic, it would be fair to say that the bishop of Constantinople was just as hungry for power as the bishop of Rome was for it. However, this is a failure to take into account the reality. Until 1054, the bishop of Rome was the arbiter in resolving inter-church disputes. In my opinion, the cultural differences that began to deepen after the division of the empire were much more important in the schism.
@@jakubkosz1009 in Orthodoxy, the bishop of Constantinople isn't the head of the church. Each branch has its own patriarch who meets with the others to discuss important matters.
@@Ivan-dg8qm, I know, but he is spiritual head of the church. In this way, he plays the role that the Bishop of Rome played until the schism ( for instance the dispute between Nestorius and the rebellious people of Constantinople was resolved in front of the Bishop of Rome)
@@jakubkosz1009 there was an entire council of bishops who opposed Nestorianism. It's not like one man declared it heresy. The patriarch of Constantinople is not the spiritual head of the church. Each area has its own patriarch, who is honoured by all Orthodox Christians.
@@Ivan-dg8qm Did I say that the council was the bishop of Rome? I only wrote that it was the angry crowd of Constantinople who turned their conflict to the pope, considering him as an arbitrator. The council was convened later
There is this very niche theory that God was a dragon that ate female virgins and collected gold and that Jesus was his shapeshifting reptile son. It already sounds so stupid but I'm hoping you can make a video debunking it.
What’s his TH-cam
It feels to me like Orthodox can’t exist by themselves without attacking Catholics whereas Catholics don’t have the need to attack Orthodox and don’t attack Orthodox. If anything Catholics view Orthodox as their real brother in Christ with valid sacraments and Apostolic succession, but Orthodox don’t afford Catholic the same curtesy.
There’s this feeling of anger from Orthodox towards Catholic.
Doesn’t seem very Christ like.
It’s like their whole identity is actively doing the opposite of what Catholicism is doing just to spite. They’re reactionary and always try to put a wedge between unity while online
Bro what? Where are you even getting this from, I feel like it’s the OPPOSITE. Every 5th second I’m hearing “submit to Rome” or something of the sort.
There is not? Not particularly more than any other denomination. If you go around saying that you are the one true church, it is expected that you will find people who will rightly refute you.
This is just rhetoric. A protestant can say that "There's this feeling of anger from Catholics towards LGBT people, doesn't seem very Christ like"
This is why we don't appeal to "feelings" and subjective opinions.
I had a very similar experience to Luigi the first time I experienced the Divine Liturgy. There was a deeply profound and transformative reality of being surrounded by thousands of years of witnesses including my grandfather who, though protestant, was a very very devout man.
I used to be SSPX and have even attended the traditional latin mass at the Immaculata (SSPX's new cathedral). I understand enough Latin to understand the prayers but it still felt like a "cheap ripoff" of the Divine Liturgy.
You are calling legit church rite a "cheap ripoff" of another liturgy? The evolution of it was led by holy spirit
@@Pablo-pn2kn Have you been to a Paschal Divine Liturgy?
I'm writing this comment a few days after I wrote my previous one. As a catholic, I start to realize that maybe there is something very wrong about my church. If we consider how many superstitions were seemingly considered catholic dogma until a few decades ago (such as the hatred towards left-handed people and the tortures done by the inquisition), how ugly is most of modern church art and architecture I've seen recently compared to what I saw in Greece, how watered down is the liturgy compared to what apparently was it like during the middle ages and some other things, even though the modern pope is not a liberal at all (sadly news protray him as such), I start to question whether catholicism is still right or not. Guys pray for me.
Will do bro. What’s your name?
@@NotevenTony massimo
You will find similar things in every church, but that does not discredit the faith. Catholics, Orthodox, or Protestants, there are sinners everywhere (we are all mutes). When it comes to horrible things, the Orthodox Church has done them too (for example, supporting the massacre of Poles in Uman, now the war in Ukraine, or persecuting the Catholic Church after the partition of Poland (I am Polish, so I write about topics that are familiar to me). Choosing a church because of its architecture is not very wise (because it can always change and depends on the individual building). When it comes to "superstitions", you can find them everywhere (can send examples). Don't worry
@@jakubkosz1009 thank you.
☦
What part of Constantinople II contradicts the Vatican position that he mentioned that they have to disagree with the bishops?
Pope Vigillius was deposed by the council temporarily for his failure to condemn mono-thelite heresy in the 3 chapters.
@@hayeshopper8998 ahhh, ok this is that clip that has Eric Ybarra with his mouth open after their apologist admits the orthodox position. i remember now. Thanks!
It is not insulting to use Biblical arguments against position of Eastern orthodox, and there is no assumption that they have reasonable response to what Catholics are showing from Bible.
Classical argument from Mt 16:
"15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Catholic interpretation: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Non-catholic interpretation: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, and neither did my Father which is in heaven reviled to you specificity, but to all of you that are here.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Catholic interpretation: - You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my church
Non-catholic interpretation: - You are Peter and upon this rock I will not build my church
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Catholic interpretation: And I will give you keys of kingdom of heaven and whatsoever you bind on earth shell be bound in heaven...
Non-catholic interpretation: And I will NOT give you keys of kingdom of heaven and whatsoever you bind on earth shell NOT be bound in heaven...
So, yeah, we don't accept that kind of evasive dismiss of Bible and we do think that your interpretation is not only unreasonable, but is also heretical.
As for Church history arguments, ok, that is another topic to talk about... and in this regard: you are wrong on Filioque. That, in itself, close the question about history. This is simplified answer, but it is 100% correct. To same conclusion we would get even if we would ignore Filioque, but since we will not ignore it, that question in itself is sufficient to close this topic.
Your "non catholic interpretation" is not the Orthodox interpretation, this argument is good against protestants but fails when talking about Orthodoxy, are you ignorant of our position? Because Luigi didn't say it's an insult for no reason
You're literally straw manning our position here. Many church fathers (even Western, such as Augustine) did not hold the modern Catholic eisegesis of this text.
The episcopacy as a whole was considered to be Petrine, not merely Rome. So yea, you don't even know the argument.
meanwhile...
St.John Chrysostom:“But observe how Peter does everything with the common consent; nothing imperiously.”
St.John Chrysostom:“And I say unto thee, ‘Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church,’ that is, on the faith of his confession.”
St.Augustine:“He had not the primacy over the disciples (in discipulos) but among the disciples (in discipulis).His primacy among the disciples was the same as that of Stephen among the deacons.”
@@inrmds He condemned his own church fathers by insulting our position lol
On the topic on innovations, what's your response to the Orthodox Church ordaining their first deaconness in May?
Edit: I would like to apologise to the entirety of the Orthodox Community the misunderstanding of the issue was 100% my fault.
Anathema!
SOURCE?
As a member of the Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria (where this incident happened), I can tell you now that the local Bishop repented for his action, since he did it on his own accord. He has since retracted the "office" of Deaconess, so It's not at all officially implemented in the Alexandrian church yet. If it becomes official, then anathema to the Patriarch of Alexandria. Remember that in orthodoxy, we view no bishop to be infallible
The female diaconate existed for many centuries for the East and West, however it was abolished once it became unnecessary
However this occurrence is different, as previously the female Deacon was never permitted for liturgical purposes, such as serving the Eucharist.
The Orthodox position does not fall apart just because the Patriarch of Alexandria is unfaithful. Many Bishops will fall away. Nestorius was the Patriarch of Constantinople. Just because one man made an error does not debunk our view, especially considering many Bishops have condemned his actions.
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II thanks for your comment. I was unaware the local Bishop repented and revoked the office.
Glory to God✞
I think we often make more of receiving on the hand than need be. We know that reception on the hand was church wide and common throughout the early Church.
Saying otherwise really makes one sound like a TLM supremacist. The purpose of receiving via instruments was done for logistic purposes not sacredness.
The idea that it is less reverent to receive on the hand is condemned in the Council of Trullo. Canon 101 states, The great and divine Apostle Paul with loud voice calls man created in the image of God, the body and temple of Christ. Excelling, therefore, every sensible creature, he who by the saving Passion has attained to the celestial dignity, eating and drinking Christ, is fitted in all respects for eternal life, sanctifying his soul and body by the participation of divine grace. Wherefore, if any one wishes to be a participator of the immaculate Body in the time of the Synaxis, and to offer himself for the communion, let him draw near, arranging his hands in the form of a cross, and so let him receive the communion of grace. But such as, instead of their hands, make vessels of gold or other materials for the reception of the divine gift, and by these receive the immaculate communion, we by no means allow to come, as preferring inanimate and inferior matter to the image of God. But if any one shall be found imparting the immaculate Communion to those who bring vessels of this kind, let him be cut off as well as the one who brings them.
Matthew 16.18 "Upon this rock I will build My Church" Roman Catholic interpretation: Upon you, Peter, I will build My church
Non-Roman Catholic interpretation: Upon Himself, Christ the Rock He builds His church
Matthew 16.18 Upon this Rock I will build My church.
Roman-catholic interpretation: Upon Peter who was bishop of Rome Christ built the Roman Catholic sect
Non-Roman Catholic interpretation: Upon Christ the Rock He built His church, and Christ is in heaven who builds His church on earth through all His apostles, not through Peter.
Yes a voice of reason absolutely destroyed you
third (among equals)
Is this supposed to be a joke? I don’t get it. Or are you referring to the 3 sees of Peter? Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch?
@@dumbnumb162usually, people who are the first to comment on a video say "first". But in this case, I was the third. But me being the third doesn't grant me any privilege over those who came before or after.
@@taxiarcha ah I see lol 💀
Have you checked out any videos from the Dimond Brothers? Their research is extensive
They are heretical, they are not even real Catholics. Sedevacantists 😂
Ubi Petrus has responses. Also the book Sedevancist Delusion. That is a dead end cult bro.
@@hayeshopper8998 Dimonds have their errors for sure, especially dogmatic SV, but using conciliar/Novus Ordo sources are a straw man of sorts
@@hayeshopper8998 Ubi Petrus is good! I'll have to check that book out thanks bro!
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ABSOLUTE W
Quick question
Protestants give more emphasize on do this on the remembrance of me
Can anyone explain what does Jesus mean by that
Paul explains it pretty well:
For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes.-1 Corinthians 11:23-26/St.Paul
@@dumbnumb162 what does that means
We teach its symbolic and we do it in remembrance of Jesus because of he says it so
Isn't Eucharist is the body and blood of Chris
@@princejohn982 yes. The Catholic and Orthodox view is that the Eucharist is the real blood of Jesus Christ. That the substance of the bread and wine changes and becomes the blood and wine of Jesus Christ. The “accidents” remain which gives it the appearance, taste, and smell of bread and wine, rather than if it were stolen blood from the hospital or as if someone were skinned.
The current pope said that Hell isn't real; that tells you all you need to know about him and the supremacy of the papacy...
Has been a public presence? Links please. I like his style.
Great work. I think this topic has been beat dead in the last 10 years. The papal quote mines don’t really work anymore. I think there needs to be more content/debates against the OO bc they have some proponents coming out with lots of videos. Might be worth having a debate and then a review on this specifically bc David’s vids are getting older. Could be his next topic so to say.
Looool. What has been "beat dead"?? In your imagination perhaps.
Read carefully 2 Corinthians chapter 11 v 3 the pyramid of true authority and salvation.
According to Chrysostom (3rd homily on Acts, chapter 2), Peter could have choose Matthias himself without the other apostle, but he didnt do it. According to Chrysostom, he had the autority, but didnt use it. How does that understanding reconcile with EO?
For most of his life St John Chrysostom was NOT in communion with the Bishop of Rome. St John Chrysostom taught that ALL the 12 had the Keys. How does this reconcile with your question brother?
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@@marcokite We believe as well all the apostles (and all the bishops) has the Keys, but through Peter as many Fathers recognized. There’s a distinction between the possession of an autority and the way or manner in which someone possess it. For exemple, Christ has the autority to forgive sins. The Apostles have the autority to forgive sins. Both have the same autority, but clearly Christ possess it in a different way. Eastern orthodox usually agree that Peter and the roman patriarch (lets say for the pre schism period) possess a primacy, not of jurisdiction, but of honor. Alright. But when you read Cyprian of Carthage (and God knows he’s changed his mind often so I agree that’s not the best example) writting that all the Apostles had the same honour and power/autority, you ask: if Cyprien says every apostle has the same honour, but it doesnt contradict the orthodox paradigm in which the Roman See possess a primacy of honour, then how can we say that Cyprian affirming that all the Apostles had the same autority contradict the idea of primacy of jurisdiction? Btw you’re right for Chrysostome not being in communion for a long period of time, but I just think EO is incomplete because even IF the papal infaillibility (and other papacy dogmas) are wrong, the Roman See would still be needed for having a true oecumenical council as wrote St Methodius.
The Orthodox say they reject papal supremacy but they venerate St Linus a pope and even more.........
Pope means father or patriarch
@@verazunrus4834 Thanks so you just called pope Francis your Father
you learn quickly
@@MICHAELHAR777how does that follow?
It’s crazy you think anyone before the schism had a Vatican I view of the papacy
It’s weird that the Benedict Mass, or TLM, will really only he held in Western Rite Orthodox Churches in the future. Since the Roman Catholic Church seems bent on destroying that beautiful liturgy.
I think Catholics reading this should read into Western Rite Orthodoxy. If you want traditional, Western Christianity.
You won’t find anything more traditional than that.
Western ritedoes not have the TLM
Greeks coping hard.
being this early is fantastic
13:33 is that nick fuentes? lol
Bump.
“The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever things you bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed also in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18-19]). . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were also what Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).
- St. Cyprian of Carthage
Your Sect does not hold fast to the unity of Peter, Kyle. You have schismed from Peter. Thus, according to st. Cyprian, your heretical church does not hold the faith. Repent and come back to Catholicism, submit to Peter.
Lol, ironically they mentioned this in the video which you clearly didn't watch. Catholics must return to Orthodoxy, the original church of Christ.
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II So, do you hold fast to the unity of Peter? Yes or no?
@@TsarOrthodoxBro_II I will be the first to return to your Sect as soon as it denounces all of its heresies, embraces the Marian Dogmas, accepts the Pope's sovereignty and accepts the indisputable fact that the Holy Spirit proceeds from God the Son.
It is not the case that there is one church at Rome and another in all the world beside. Gaul and Britain, Africa and Persia, India and the East worship one Christ and observe one rule of truth. If you ask for authority, the world outweighs its capital. Wherever there is a bishop, whether it be at Rome or at Engubium, whether it be at Constantinople or at Rhegium, whether it be at Alexandria or at Zoan, his dignity is the same and his priesthood is the same. Neither the command of wealth nor the lowliness of poverty makes him more a bishop or less a bishop. All alike are successors of the apostles.
St. Jerome
Letter 146 to Evangelus (401 A.D.)
@@giorgirazmadze5102 BOOM 🤯!
3
Never been this early 7th
Don't forget about Peter's lead, read the Bible little boy❤
Acts 5:15
Acts 1:15-20
Acts 2:14-41
John 21:15-17
John 20:5-7
Matthew 16:13-20
John 6:68-70
Luke 22:31-32
Luke 5:3
Luke 12:41-48
Matthew 17:27
Mark 1:36
Isaiah 22:22
Bro you need to change the crosses in the thumbnail. All crosses are Orthodox (but also the first cross in your thumbnail is just a Greek cross so it looks like Orthodox vs Orthodox). Use a papal symbol instead. Funny hat or something idk.
The Pope is as valid as Jesus
I can smell the aura of Satanism off of you from far away I saw your denial comments of Jesus
@Ortho_james21 you don't want a Pope guys?
@Ortho_james21 the guy isnt a catholic just a reddit ragebait atheist
Crazy
I deny Jesus
Ok……good for you
Dude can you not
@@smokeyplane3285 I deny him, his father and holy spirit
Gay
Bro is desperate to get attention