The Baltic Republic are a fascinating case study in International Relations. There aren't many other similar examples. But it has set in place an important principle in international law. Of course, their independence threw up some important questions on minority rights for the Russian communities in the three countries. I hope to come back to this in a future video.
We love the three amazing Baltic nations here in Ireland and have huge links with all three. They are to be cherished as free, democratic and independent nations integral to Europe.
Iceland, being the first country to recognize Lithuania's independence - the first recognition for a Baltic State - is, and has always been, a source of immense pride for the Icelandic people. Deemed "reckless" and "impulsive", for a nation of 250.000 people, by most of Iceland's allies and encouraged to "fall in line" by US officials - At least Iceland did something. What effect that impulsive behavior had on the Baltic States battle is of course debatable. What isn't debatable is our pride!
It is a bit unfair to say that Iceland "was the first country to recognize them" since some countries like the US hadn't seized to recognize us throughout the Cold War.
@@rupsikas1950 Sure, US role in Baltics indepentence has plaid mayor role then and still does now. I can be thankfull for that as well, and cross fingers for democratic stability in US and West over all.
I’m very proud of my Latvian heritage. Both my parents were refugee children. They met as teenagers in NYC and made sure that my sister and I participated in Latvian culture, including enduring an extra day of going to Saturday Latvian school when I really wanted to watch the Jetsons on TV. But now I am so grateful that they gave me the gift of knowing the Latvian language and I can visit there and communicate fluently; although everyone I talk to in Latvian can tell I speak with an American accent!
The size of a country doesn't always matter. While huge countries generally play a huge role in international affairs, sometimes smaller states can play an equally significant role. The Baltic States are an example. Reclaiming their independence at the end of the 20th century is a testament that now a state cannot forcibly annex another.
we are used to revolting. we've been occupied for centuries. by that point, russia made the mistake trying to make us part of them. didn't work out too well, and russian people are still very much hated in our sociaty in some parts of the country. and vice versa.
@@thedarkdragon1437 Some parts of our country? No. EVERYWHERE we hate them. They are not welcome. And even if they live here its only acceptable if they learn our language. Otherwise GET OUT.
I asked my Latvian aunt how the country went about re-establishing itself. She said: Latvia declared 50 years of illegal occupation and re-instated the constitution it had before the Russian invasion. She also said: we are grateful to the Russians for liberating us from the Nazis, but no one invited them to stay for 50 years!
Thank you so very much. I was born in Soviet Estonia and witnessed its transition to a regained independence before leaving for Israel. My heart is with Estonia and I have friends there. It's an amazing country and I highly recommend visiting it.
Thanks so much Ephraim. I'd wanted to do this video for ages. Fortunately, I have in fact had the chance to visit Estonia. It was absolutely lovely. I'd certainly agree that it is really worth a visit. I was in Tartu, which has an excellent university. In fact, I have a long-term collaboration with a professor there. I actually landed in Riga and then caught a bus up there, which was a truly wonderful journey. There was one specific spot on the journey that I will never forget. Truly magical, in the very real sense of the word.
I was a minor then , so I left with my family. But regardless, it was a time of strong ethnic awakening amongst Estonians, and others of the USSR. Jews were affected as well - feeling belonging to Israel and disappointment of growing antisemitism.
Very interesting video! I love the Baltic states having visited all 3 of them. Their story made me think about the fact that a country doesn't always have to have a single independence date. A few years ago, the Baltic States celebrated 100 years of independence and now they're celebrating 30 years of achieving it again. Both events deserve to be recognised as the countries gaining independence. Its similar with other countries such as Ireland which went from Easter Rising to the first Dáil to the Free State, a new constitution and finally a Republic. All could be argued as the date of independence when in reality, answering a single date is misleading when all are significant. Keep up the great work!
Thanks so much GW. You are absolutely right. And I really do want to take a look at Ireland at some point, as you know. It has such an interesting history. A bit like Australia, Canada, etc. it is hard to pin down exactly what moment it really gained full independence. I hope all is well with you.
Trying to reclaim your independence and free yourself from under the shadow of a big bully is no doubt very tough, but the sense of jubilation and joy one felt from a fully independent status is overwhelming and well worth.🤗
Thanks Nabil. You are absolutely right. The Baltics don't get enough attention. I hope to do more on them. There are some interesting other aspects to look at.
@@JamesKerLindsay Would very much look forward to that. As Nabil said it's underrated, and as a Brit, I think it's possibly the one region of Europe whose history we underappreciate the most. Excellent video as usual James :)
This episode struck a memory for me, for I was listening toRadio Vilnius on my shortwave radio, back in February 1991, when the Soviets sent their tanks into that city. I remember the announcer stating that tanks could be seen from the broadcast house, and that they would stay on the air as long as possible. I just pulled out my old QSL verification card: Radio Vilnius, 18 Feb 1991, at 23h00 UTC, on 7400 kHz frequency.
In terms of cultural survival, the Baltic states and Poland are fascinating case studies. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was for a time the most powerful state in Europe, given the weird state of play in Western Europe before the Enlightenment. but over time as the state and its successors declined, and the nations were divvied up again and again by other powers, somehow they maintained a real, concrete sense of themselves as peoples. The more I read the less I'm convinced this is unique, but it was reading about this region of the world that first got me broadly into history in late Elementary school. I'm glad any time I can see this discussed in a holistic way.
Thanks Tim. It is amazing to think that Lithuania was once such a large entity. Sadly, they really don't get enough attention, and yet their history is so fascinating. I had the really good fortune to go to Latvia and Estonia a few years ago. They really are lovely. I caught Estonia in late-May, when the weather was absolutely beautiful. There is something truly special about them.
Yes, you're absolutely right that the Commonwealth was powerful but Lithuania was doing quite well for itself before that time: say, in the 15th century, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was the largest state in Europe. The way it became the largest one and the international relations Vytautas the Great fostered were quite intriguing though:) If you asked Poles to name the 'glory days' of their state, they'd probably go for the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth but we Lithuanians would mostly pick the times of the Grand Duchy:) Just because:)))))))) When it comes down to the Soviet period, most Lithuanians did not identify with the occupiers. We saw ourselves as Lithuanians -- it's the others outside the USSR that saw us as some sort of a consolidated entity of Soviets (much like proputin Russians see 'the West' now -- 'they're all the same':). Yes, there was some confusion when we heard certain propaganda things at school but we heard completely different stories at home. And you didn't need to go far having so many family members tortured, killed, and exiled by the Soviets (oops, the liberators). I still remember the first time my grandmother showed me the real flag of Lithuania which she's hidden for long years. It was wow:) We've always felt very strongly about our language, you know one of the oldest ones in the world:). Having said that, I don't think it was something unique. It just makes sense for us to be free -- we know how to do it:)))
Not unique at all. There are many examples of stateless nations, less of nations that had and reachieved nationhood. In Europe you can look up for example the 400 year gap between the end of the Byzantine Empire and the reestablishment of a Greek state at 1821.
Thank you so much. And warmest congratulations on the 30th anniversary of your regained independence. It is a wonderful story. Unfortunately, I’ve never been to Lithuania. (I’ve been to Latvia and Estonia.) I would love to go one day. In the meantime, thanks for the support for the channel. I really appreciate it! Best wishes from London.
@@JamesKerLindsay Thank you for everything. And when times will be better i hope you will visit Lithuania because there a lot of interesting places to see.
Fantastic insight, James. Big fan of your videos ! I met a Lithuanian 10 yrs back and he mentioned he was born on the day of independence of Lithuania. Little did I know then that what he meant was Lithuania's reclaimed independence !
Thanks so much. :-) The Baltic Republics really are a fascinating group of countries with a history that is far more interesting than most people realise. The fact that Lithuania was once the largest state in Europe is pretty amazing.
I'm really grateful for your video. I believe it's really important to have this clear and impartial view of history. As a lithuanian I thank you. Cheers!
i think it was mentioned in estonia's case to provide one possible reason why christianity is alien to us while lithuania doesn't have that relationship with christianity (and tbf lithuania adopted it voluntarily while estonians were forced).
@@hullmees666 As far as I know ordinary Lithuanians resisted the adoption and held on to their pagan practices long after the official conversion. Which is why, indeed, both in theory and practice, Lithuania was the last country in Europe to convert to Christianity.
@Whatever ... same in Latvia. While we weren't our own state by that time, Christianity was forced upon us. Some pagan leaders converted to get out of the Teutons radar of conquest, but in secret most of them still followed the pagan faith.
This is one of my favorite moments in recent history, but if never thought of it in terms of the precedent it set for conquest being an illegitimate way to change national borders. Thank you as always!
Thanks so much Fredo. It really is an interesting story. This was a video I had wanted to do for a long time. Many years ago I went to the Museum of the Occupation in Riga and was really struck by the letter from George Bush reaffirming their independence. okupacijasmuzejs.lv/en/
Thank you for making this! I'm Latvian-American, and I struggle to explain our history succinctly, so a video like yours that explains this topic so well and in such an accessible format is great! Will definitely be showing this to people in the future.
Another excellent video James. I have always loved the Baltic States. I have actually been to all of them. And hope to go again. Keep up the great work. I think it's very disgraceful that the massive Soviet Union would take over the small Baltic states like the way they did and so it's great that you highlighted that most countries didn't recognize this forced takeover.
Thank you James for such a precise and informational video! I am Latvian and I do remember barricades, shootings and the huge tension at end of the sommer 1991. I was 7 years old at the time and I thought we are all going to die when Russians tried to took back the power. My parents listened radio news and we were all very, very frightened by what happened. Luckily they didn't gain nothing!
The Baltic countries include Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania wanted break away from the Soviet Union and they gained independence to pursue their own paths...They joined NATO and their relationship with Russia is frosty...
@7:42 re USSR sending in the military. There's an aspect here that is unmentioned but very important. Leading up to the invasion more and more young men were refusing to be called up for conscription. In Lithuania it was up to 90%. Officers who saw the writing on the wall began to organise to oppose the use of the army against the people to prop up the USSR. When the troops in Lithuania were ordered out of garrison to suppress the independence movement by seizing gov't buildings and the TV tower many refused. Officers disappeared, refusing to report for duty. The military was fracturing over the Baltics. This wasn't fighting an external enemy. Troops from outside Lithuania had to be brought in. The massacre of people caused revulsion amongst many in the military - active duty, reservists, and veterans. Veterans and reservists smashed their medals and impaled their military IDs in fences outside the garrisons and at the army barricades. This was mutiny. Keep in mind the population of the Baltic states was quite small. What if the same happened amongst Ukrainian and Belarusian troops, who comprised a much larger percentage of the military? The two republics also had nuclear weapons. The ICBMs were pretty well under the command and control of the Kremlin, but the same couldn't be said of nuclear bombs and battlefield tactical nukes. The military was what was keeping the USSR together, and it fracturing revealed the bonds to maintain the USSR no longer existed.
Just stumbled across this as a bit of research before a trip to the Baltics - interesting and well put together commentary - thanks for creating this video.
These videos have a great format: setting out the basic facts and history of the countries being discussed in a succinct way which helps put the rest of the commentary into context.
Thank you so much Andrew. I really appreciate it. I have always liked to think that it is helpful to put current events in a wider historical and political context, rather than just jumping in.
Always loved visiting the Baltic states (have not visited the southernmost state). It is interesting to note that conquest is no longer seen as legitimate means to incorporate an entire state into another state - and even the respective states not recognising Soviet rule, wherein they still celebrate their national days referencing dates in early 20th century rather than dates post collapse of Soviet Union. However, is conquest still seen as legitimate when it comes to incorporating portions of territory of a larger country? Taking another Soviet example, where South Sakhalin was annexed after the Second World War - where a majority of the population were Japanese, was not disputed.
Thanks Anirudh. Like you, I've been to Latvia and Estonia, but not to Lithuania. I would love to go at some point. Great question. The invasion and occupation of parts of territory is not accepted either. The principle of the territorial integrity of states is a key tenet of the UN Charter. However, the reality is of course slightly different. Annexation of territory is becoming a real concern in a number of cases - most notably Russia and Crime, but also Israel and the Palestinian territories. The invasion and annexation of entire states is, of course, relatively rare. Perhaps the most obvious recent example was Iraq's attempt to annexe Kuwait in 1990, which led to the First Gulf War.
@@JamesKerLindsay very interesting. Could you perhaps do a video on this topic of annexation and occupation. Not just in the case of Israel and Russia but also perhaps; Turkish occupation of Northern Syria, Yemen crisis with Saudi Arabia. Perhaps even the issue of Unification such as Yemen and Germany in the 90s, potential of Korea or even Maldova and Romania. Just an idea
@@JamesKerLindsay good morning! Annexation is indeed becoming an issue and in this sense and if two members of UN view the territorial integrity of a particular member differently, it causes issues like Russia and Crimea (speaking of UN, incidentally for one of my high school MUNs, I was the delegate of Latvia, my first time researching deep about the country). @Asir Newaz Khan - very interesting, yes. That many countries exercise de facto control over territories without actually claiming them like Turkey in Northern Syria.
@@JamesKerLindsay Interesting that George Bush Sr, the one legally elected, met in Kiyev asking the Ukrainians not to separate from the USSR the day before they did.
@@butterflies655 jep...and I was in church today saying goodbye to a dear neighbour...was respectful while thinking did god make this man what he was while the pastor waxed on on about Jebus. Or just a good person...with or without
Thanks, John. I’ve done about three or four on Tigray. You can find them in my Africa Playlist or by scrolling through the videos. I hope to return to it soon. There are so many important angles to it.
Maybe we are small but we are strong greetings from Lithuania Atmostas Baltija, atmostas Baltija Lietuva, Latvija, Igaunija! Bunda jau Baltija, bunda jau Baltija Lietuva, Latvija, Estija! Ärgake Baltimaad, ärgake Baltimaad Leedumaa, Lätimaa, Eestimaa!
Thank you so much. It is an incredible story. By the way, I really hope to go to Lithuania at some point. It is one of only two EU members I have never been to (along with Malta).
This was an informative summary of the history and status of the Baltic states. I enjoyed listening to your commentary as usual. It is too bad that the Chechen, Ingush, Tuvan and Tatar Republics, all independent at one time in the past or seeking independence, even today, were not able to follow the Baltic example at the time of the breakup of the Soviet Union. They would have benefitted greatly also upon regaining their freedoms.
Thank you so much Jay. Someone else mentioned taking a look at the Caucasus as well. I really should try to get round to doing it. It is such a fascinating and complex picture. This particular video was one I had wanted to make for a while. I went to Latvia and Estonia a few years ago and was really taken by them. But what really stood out was my trip to the Museum of the Occupation, in Riga. It is fascinating. But there was a letter from President Bush reaffirming their statehood. It really struck me as a fascinating document. Most people just probably thought of it as a nice item on display, but I remember thinking of the profound significance of this letter, not just for Latvia but for wider the wider international system. In any case, the museum is an absolute must visit for any going to Latvia. okupacijasmuzejs.lv/en/
I have only ever been to Estonian's capital when I went to Helsinki and we took a ferry there. It sure is a beautiful country Estonia. Nice video though James. I never really knew much about the Baltic States. And so it was interesting seeing you cover them.
Thx very much. After searching for a good video talking about the subject I found this. We are facing another war in Europe and in a few words you teach ne so much. Thanks again.
Hmmm... I'm from Lithuania, and I think the part why Russia changed its mind and agreed to recognize Baltic states in 1991 September, should have mentioned a failed August military coup in Moscow, which was the key in turning tables around.
Thanks. I did wonder about putting it in, but it seemed unnecessary. The point still stood that by August 1991 the USSR had given up the fight. I will mention it in the follow up, which will look at the events after September leading up to the final collapse of the Soviet Union.
@@JamesKerLindsay the thing is, during events in Lithuania on January 13, 1991, when Sovyet soldiers successfully occupied TV tower and TV studios of Lithuanian National TV, the collaborative pro-USSR programming stayed on TVs till the very aforementioned coup in Moscow. Only after the failed coup, the sovyet journalists couldn't do anything else, but pack their things and shamefully abandon TV tower and studios. Thanks to Yeltsin.
@@Mantvydas Soviet Soldiers not Russian Soldiers, wasn't it like that that the RSFSR leadership and citizen weren't to happy about what the central government of the USSR tried in lithuania in 1991 and Russian citizens actually protested if I remember it correctly
@@darkoratic2339 thanks, you're right, I fixed Russian soldiers into Sovyet soldiers, they really were from across the union. And yes, to this day there are many supportive russians, that was my fast ignorant mistake.
@@darkoratic2339 yeah, i remember seeing stuff about yeltsin's supporters and people from baltics being very friendly. too bad how things ended up in the end between the countries.
Thanks. This is on my to do list. Two of my closest friends are Czech and Slovak. I remember that I actually had them over for lunch on the anniversary of the Velvet Divorce (quite by accident). They both found that very amusing. :-) I also find it really interesting that they also get on so well. Many people who know both countries often wonder why they split!
@@JamesKerLindsay yeah both countries population are not hostile towards each other which is very nice. Hope more people get to know about these great countries
I have contravertial one. I just watched this. And then went back to your older videos and watched one about hawaii. So here is my question? Isn't the thing that Russians did to Baltics same as the thing that USA did to Hawaii? Or, as you mentioned at the end of your video on Hawaii, Puerto Rico? With only difference being that USA managed to supress native population and successfully annex (*ahm* conquer *ahm*) other country, while Russia simply failed. What are your opinions on that? I know, this may be contraversial one, but I think it is a good question for discussion
@@user-cf3vz9nd4k Мислим да ово није пропагандни канал и да он заиста поставља ствари које га занимају. Такође, рекао бих да је поприлично објективан у својим видеима. Као пример узећу његове клипове о Косову, где заиста није заузео ни једну страну. Ипак, интересује ме шта ће рећи на ово моје питање
Thanks, Pavle. You are absolutely right. There is no escaping the fact that the United States annexed Hawaii. It was a shameful act. And Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. are just colonies by another name. But it is also worth noting that Russia also conquered and annexed a lot of territory. It wouldn't be the huge size it is today if it hadn't! And it too has managed to suppress a lot of native movements. What this really shows is that there are many different relationships that states can have with conquered territory. In some cases, it becomes an integral part of the state - fully assimilated and integrated. In other cases, there is a looser relationship, that might become tighter with time, or else can lead to the eventual independence of the territory in question. It is a fascinating question. But certainly the United States has had its own history of conquest and colonialism - despite what many may think. (But, to be fair, it has done a better job acknowledging it than many other countries. At least it apologised to Hawaiians. It can't fix the past, but it does show understanding for how it hurt a people.)
Thanks Marco. It is a really fascinating situation. I had wanted to do this video for ages. I remember going to the Museum of the Occupation in Riga a number of years ago. I was struck by the copy of President Bush’s letter to them reaffirming their independence. It really is a remarkable document. By the way, here is the link to the Museum okupacijasmuzejs.lv/en/
James, Your presentations are both timely and most interesting. One area that gets little attention in eastern Europe is Kaliningrad. Prussia has both an interesting history and an important one in both Europe and Germany. Going forward it will be interesting to see if this area emerges once again as an independent state. While most if not all of the Germans have been driven out post WWIi, it would be worth reviewing its current important role to Russia and its historical place in European history and its curious role as a Russian outpost in Eastern Europe. I thought you might agree. Regards…
The issue is that the ENTIRE population there has come from elsewhere (other parts of Russia) and they are essentially rootless. Prussia is for them only a historical curiosity and they do not value its cultural heritage, since it is foreign to them.
@@JamesKerLindsay Definitely different because those annexed territories belonged to already recognized sovereign States that retained their rights to later liberate those annexed areas by exercising their respective rights of self-determination, irrespective of usurpation of government, displacement of sovereignty, or whether the situation was colonial or otherwise, just like Hong Kong, Macao, Korea, Gibraltar, Morocco, Ceuta, Melilla, Somaliland, Congo Free State, Orange Free State, Hyderabad, the Hawaiian Islands, Lew Chew, and perhaps even Crimea if you consider it as part of Russia.
Thanks for the video James. How could such a peaceful process not only work but result in the collapse the parent country? Many countries would have chosen war if a similar situation arose, why didn’t the USSR?
Thanks. Great question! That is one of the really interesting conundrums of modern history. I think it came down to a number of factors. I didn't cover it, but the failed coup in August 1991 certainly played a part. I will try to come back to this in another video.
Reclaiming independence of Baltic States was not a direct reason for USSR to collapse. The USSR itself could not go on with it's plan economics, it needed the capitalism, supply and demand. Because it could not keep planning 5 years how the economy will go or what they gonna manufacture or invest in this time. They needed more flexible system. Along with that one-party politics line was changing into many parties, democracy, freedom of speech started to rise. Also another war after the recently ended Afghanistan war would be looking bad in the eyes of the rest of the world, again because of crumbling iron curtain when is impossible to hide anything.
Thanks so much Marco. I hoped someone might notice. :-) Yes, I upgraded my camera. I used to use the Canon M50. It is great to start with, and many people on TH-cam begin with it, but I was becoming more and more frustrated with its limitations. Instead, I went for a dedicated video camera: the Canon XA40. By the way, was the sound OK on this video. I am trying to work on that.
Thanks. I'd make a couple of points. First, I realise that many topics have been done, but I try to take a different perspective on things and put them in a wider International Relations context. Also, I don't want to be another current affairs channel just chasing after news. There are too many of those, many of rather poor quality. I certainly cover newsworthy topics, but I like to think that I can also be a useful - and trusted - reference source on many historical issues.
i love the baltic countries, and speaking of the baltics, could kaliningrad become independent one day? and what would have to be done by the international community to make it so?
Me too. I have been fortunate enough to have been to Latvia and Estonia, though sadly not Lithuania. Great suggestion on Kaliningrad. I will certainly give it some thought.
I remember (ignorantly and jokingly) calling my Latvian friend a "Russian". She was obviously not happy and I eventually apologised. Hahaha. But I also remember seeing an old Malayan passport that stated the passport was not valid for the USSR, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. At first I was rather confused as to why they had to write out the three individual Baltic states. Watching your video, I eventually learnt how the general international community back then still recognised the three Baltic states as de jure independent countries even though they are de facto under the USSR back then. Thank you so much for the video, James!
Thanks so much. Interestingly, and I didn't really touch on this in the video, but a quarter of the populations of Estonia and Latvia are still Russian. (Lithuania has a much smaller percentage, around 5%.) So, there was a chance that she could have actually been Russian. But, if she wasn't, I can imagine that it might have not gone down too well! Such an interesting point about the passport. I hadn't heard about that before!
@@JamesKerLindsay Yes, that's true. I am also aware with the fact that there's a significant Russian minority living in these Baltic states. There is even a Russian Worker's Party there which I think was quite shocking. My friend was in fact an ethnic Latvian so of course she wasn't really happy with my lame jokes. Hahaha. The Malayan passport I talked about also stated it won't work in Hong Kong and China. I could only assume it was because of the same reason as to why they wrote out the USSR and the Baltic states: Recognition of the state's sovereignty from the annexing power but still recognise the fact that the state has been annexed by said annexing power.
@@eksiarvamus Except that a quarter are. So, equally, it is wrong to assume that they are not. My wife comes from a country where there is an assumption that people will come from the majority community. The subject of the country came up, and the person next to her launched into a diatribe about how awful the minority people were! It led to a rather embarrassing situation. Better to just tread carefully.
10:39 "conquest cannot lead to the end of a state." If that's the case then what happened to Hyderabad State, which gained independence in 1947 only to be annexed a year later by India? Also, even when conquest was a legitimate method of acquiring territory, there are certain instances where a state can be extinguished in fact but that the identity of the state continues and retains the ability to be revived to continue precisely from the point that the state was suppressed and its sovereignty suspended. One example is where a neutral country is acquired by conquest or conquered during a war and the territory is later liberated. Another example is where all or a portion of a country offers no resistance to conquest and the territory is later liberated. A third example is in the case of a fake revolution and establishment of a puppet government and the territory is later liberated. A fourth example is when the conquered state is liberated from the conqueror by another state (i.e. a state already at war with the conqueror). In nearly every instance, foreign nations are obligated under international law to recognize territory acquired by conquest as a being part of the conqueror's territory while possession continues. It is only after liberation that the state can be seen to resume its legal personality in continuity with its former identity. Unlike a biological entity, a state under certain circumstances can be re-animated after death with all its former rights and obligations intact. Until the point of revival, an extinct state has only limited options, one of which is the ability to reconstitute a government in-exile and attempt to re-establish diplomatic relations with states that once recognized it, as well as establishing new diplomatic relations with other states. Note that the reconstituted government, even with recognition, is not technically a state until it again satisfies the criteria for statehood, which necessarily involves approximately the same population and territory in order to successfully establish continuity of state identity. If the reconstituted government attempts to assert statehood without first recapturing most of its ancient territory (not including its former colonies or dependencies, if any) and/or recapturing some of its ancient territory while issuing a public protest against the illegal occupation as to the remainder, the state will risk permanent extinction of its original identity and permanent loss of territory. Intervening states and non-state actors can facilitate restoration provided they remain in compliance with relevant humanitarian and international law, including the laws of war.
Professor James, you messed up with the time-line. Gorbachov declared "Glasnost and Perestroika" in March 1984. That was before the Chernobyl disaster. Georgia was the most aggressive for independence. Do you remember April 9, 1989 that Soviet forces crushed peaceful protestors? Georgian dissidents pushed hard for promoting independence for the republics. Afterward, Georgia had peaceful election, ousted the Communists and declared the independence in April. 9, 1991.
Estonians were preparing for several years underground and in politics in top levels. It did not spread but were forced to come out a bit early to not get cought later. Generally correct but at some points some wordings sugest wrong things. Estonia(ERR the public broadcasting network) has detailed documentaries (video, audio and images) and info about planning and executing it by the main people(telling the stories) who organized the revolt and everything related. Anyone who would want to do a video about Estonia regaining the indepencence should watch them.
Lithuania once was biggest European country, stretching from Baltic to Black sea, leaving no chance to go on land from West to East Europe, without cutting it's territory. And also Lithuania was last country to convert from paganism to chrisrianity :)
I wish Karelia also gained recognition when it became a Union Republic before being reinstated as an Autonomous Republic. And now another attempt to annexation, Belarus...🙄
Yes I am curious about that. Who appointed their ambassadors? Was there "governments in exile" as during WWII? What kind of day-to-day work did the embassies do?
I'm russian from Latvia, glad to have our own country called Latvia, we surely do have problems in Latvia. But I know that my kids will live in beauitiful and rich Latvia.
Greetings, professor. Nice video. I trully appreciated your on the Baltic States. Two interesting facts: Former LSSR leader First Secretary of the Lithuanian Communist Party Central Commitee Antanas Snieckus was the longest serving Communist Leader of the Baltic States:(1903-1974). Unlike his fellow Communist Leaders from other Baltic States: Estonia's Nikolai Karotamm (1901-1969), Latvia's Augusts Voss (1919-1994). Lithuanian partisan war lasted almost for a decade, thus being one of the longest partisan war in Europe: (1944-1953). And for the conclusion Russia still refuses to acknowledge illegitimacy of the Soviet occupation and annexation of the three Baltic States. Commenting that Estonia, Latvia,Lithuania willingly joined the USSR. In fact that is a big lie.
Thank you so much. It was a week later than I had originally planned, but coincided perfectly with the 30th anniversary of their membership of the United Nations. :-) Thanks so much for the point about Russia questioning their independence. I thought to go into this, but it really seemed irrelevant - and I didn't want to take away from the main positive story by adding this footnote. But I might come back to it in a future video. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33325842
Thanks Roger. I had planned to do it last week, but went with the Montenegro video instead. But this was actually a video that I had wanted to do for ages. I went to the Museum of the Occupation in Riga many years ago and was really struck by the letter from President Bush they had put on display reaffirming their regained independence. okupacijasmuzejs.lv/en/
@@JamesKerLindsay Thank you very much, to be fair, I think it's better that you released it today, because it's a day after the anniversary, and I personally think it's better
Great video that lead me to think if we reverse think (ocupation cannot lead to dissolution of a state), we'll see some examples of countries that emerged from another country because of politics while culture, language and history are the same.
Thanks so much Nikola. This is a really interesting point. I find the idea of kin states fascinating. Two states that should be one, but by dint of history have emerged as separate countries: Greece and Cyprus, Serbia and Montenegro, Romania and Moldova, etc. I should perhaps try to do more on this.
Thanks a lot. Point well taken! You are right, Baltic States and Baltic countries are often used - if not more commonly used - terms. Although the term Baltic Republics is also used to describe them. (They are, after all, republics.)
@@JamesKerLindsay the term Baltic republics (as in "the Baltic Republics of the USSR) is a geopolitical anachronism. True, they are all republics per se, but how many times have you heard Sweden, Norway and Denmark being conflated as "the Scandinavian kingdoms", although they are monarchies in nature?
Thank you, that was very interesting 😀 I’m 1/4 🇺🇦 and the rest of me is 🇬🇧. My 🇺🇦grandad was taken by the very bad Germans at the time from his home at 14 to work in Germany. Who knows how many were taken. At the end of the war he and the rest were told that it was too dangerous to go back and they had to forget their childhood home and move to Australia, canada or the uk. They shouldn’t try to contact their family in Ukraine (& wherever they came from) because bad things could happen to their families. So it just wasn’t spoken about. He’d have been amazed now by the support around the world for Ukraine 🇺🇦 One of my 🇺🇦cousins can remember always being cold & hungry, holes in her too small shoes, barely any toys. Once we could get in touch with them we found a courier and we’d send 4/5 huge boxes of stuff, she still remembers her 1st taste of hot chocolate, biscuits and uk chocolate, when we sent them Belgian chocolate omg, they’d never tasted anything like it. I have tasted the chocolate from the early 90s, I’m not a chocolate lover but ugh 🤮it was like having a really cheap chocolate made 95% worse with sand mixed in. She recently asked us if we could send tea we have here in 🇬🇧 she had been telling her teen about it. Ukraine has come a long, long way since then, it appears their aggressive neighbour with an egotistical selfish, greedy, corrupt & obnoxious head hasn’t come very far at all. Particularly in the places that aren’t big cities.
I don't know how the Baltic states asserted their independence during the occupation. But i remember attending a Lithuanian Festival at the Lithuanian consulate in Chicago in rhe 1980s. And I always wondered who had appointed the consul-general. Did the Baltic states have "governments-in-exile" during the occipation?
I would say that the concept is certainly somewhat selective in how it is applied and by whom, in practice the realpolitik determines the course of action as recognition/non-recognition is fundamentally a diplomatic lever that is used in response to geopolitical moves, though obviously there is plenty incentive to grabbing the moral high ground and not recognizing a fresh conquest (ie Crimea), plus in if the tide of opinion later turns you can then use recognition as a bargaining chip for concessions. That being said, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Finland, effectively also a Baltic state, have a long history of being colonized by different powers, the Danes, the Swedes, for a long time the Germans, the Poles in some areas, and finally the Russians, gaining independence for a little while before the Soviets and Germans briefly each took over, and then the Soviets came back and stayed. Finland effectively removed itself from the grouping by staving off Soviet conquest in battle, while the southern three republics continued to be recognized as independent by Classicalist powers throughout the Cold War, paving the way for their quickly-recognized renewed independence when the Soviets showed weakness. The parts of eastern Poland that were annexed by the Soviets in the same time period were not so fortunate. The Americans and British gave in and recognized the Soviets’ 1939 annexations in Galicia, along with recognizing the ceding of territory to the Soviets by Finland and Romania. Not that they had any choice…
Thanks, as ever, LocalLT. I'd say it's important to differentiate here between the conquest of entire states and the conquest of parts of states. The conquest of whole states is now very rare indeed. In fact, the only really modern case I can think of was Iraq's effort to annex Kuwait in 1990. (Western Sahara and Palestine - and East Timor - are interesting cases given the post-colonial setting.) So, admittedly, the concept discussed here is actually a rather rare occurrence in International Relations. The conquest of parts of another state's territory is certainly more common. And, seemingly, becoming more so. And the conquest of eastern Poland is a really interesting story, alongside Karelia and what is now Moldova. I really should try to come back to them.
Thank you, Sir Very informative. Would love to visit the Baltic States. I'm interested to hear from Lithuanians what their view is today of communism? Regards from Australia
Thanks Tom. I haven't been to Lithuania, but I have been to Latvia and Estonia and they are absolutely beautiful. I had the good fortune to take a 5-hour bus ride from Riga to Tartu a few years back and it was truly lovely. There was one spot on the journey that was utterly magical - in the true meaning of the word! And hopefully some Lithuanians might see this comment and answer your question. Given that anyone under 40 probably has not clear recollection of it, it would be interesting to hear what younger generations think of it having been told by their parents and grandparents.
22 year old Lithuanian here. Our pride is pretty much built on the anti soviet resistence. Especially for younger generation. I had grown up in a family where my great granparent helped anti soviet partisans at the beggining of the occupation as most of them have been simply his friends from his and surrounding villages. What makes him pretty unique was that he had a photoaparat and has made some of the largest partisan picture collections in Lithuania, my grandpa was one of the creators of the newly established military unit in my town and worked at the border control at the time soviets still have not recognised us (border patrols were actually being killed by soviet special forces here in Lithuania) when my mum was 13 my grandpa took her to the parliament protection during January events, she saw the tanks. It is safe to say, that growing up i have not heard anything positive about USSR🤣. But it is the story of basically all young Lithuanians, our parents and grandparents like to brag about their participation in various forms of resistence or atleast the baltic way. Colloboration with occupants or family members having high positions during soviet times is somethin a young person would be ashamed of and would not talk about. Soviet symbolics are banned under the same laws as nazi ones. We have destroyed or taken to museums pretty much all soviet monuments, no Lenins here or smth like that. However to this day we have some divisions when it comes to artists, like last week we took a famous poets statue out of one of the main squares in Vionius because he wrote pro soviet poems and there were people opposing that because he was still one of our best writers realistically. But this is not the division on interpretation of soviet history, but seperation of art from politics. I wrote a lot already, but if you see me and have questions ask me anything
@@JamesKerLindsay 22 year old Lithuanian here. Our pride is pretty much built on the anti soviet resistence. Especially for younger generation. I had grown up in a family where my great granparent helped anti soviet partisans at the beggining of the occupation as most of them have been simply his friends from his and surrounding villages. What makes him pretty unique was that he had a camera and made some of the largest partisan picture collections in Lithuania, my grandpa was one of the creators of the newly established military unit in my town and worked at the border control at the time when soviets still have not recognised us (border patrols were actually being killed by soviet special forces here in Lithuania) (another fun fact, you needed a recomendation from your local "sąjūdis" unit and a head priest in your church to join border control at the time), when my mum was 13 my grandpa took her to the parliament protection during January events, she saw the tanks. It is safe to say, that growing up i have not heard anything positive about USSR🤣. But it is the story of basically all young Lithuanians, our parents and grandparents like to brag about their participation in various forms of resistence or atleast the baltic way. Colloboration with occupants or family members having high positions during soviet times is somethin a young person would be ashamed of and would not talk about. Soviet symbolics are banned under the same laws as nazi ones. We have destroyed or taken to museums pretty much all the soviet monuments, no Lenins here or smth like that. However to this day we have some divisions when it comes to artists, like last week we took a famous poets statue out of one of the main squares in Vilnius because he wrote pro soviet poems and there were people opposing that because he was still one of our best writers realistically. But this is not the division on the interpretation of soviet history, but seperation of art from politics. I wrote a lot already, but if you see me and have questions ask me anything
Good riddance is what we think. The communist party was recognised as a criminal enterprise, banned immediately upon regaining independence (at the hands of its former members) and the non-reformist-minded leaders were locked up for crimes against humanity and treason. That distinction is needed because the communist party was actually pro-independence, only a small minority within it attempted a counter coup. The hammer and sickle and the five pointed red star remain strictly prohibited from public display.
Thug Rose Namajunas has said before fighting Chinese fighter - "Better dead than red" (it isnt orifginal though). Her grandparent was a millitary officer of independent Lithuania. That's what we think about communism. Lithuania accepted Taiwan and made communistic China angree on us :D
Actually, Estonian continued to be one of the two official languages also in Soviet times. And life in Estonia still went on in Estonian. Culture, poetry, literature, theatre, administration etc. We never ceased to be Estonia, this why we managed to reclaim our country. There was something to regain, we had kept it alive all this time and never thought of ourselves as anything other than the Republic of Estonia *who, for a while, had to deal with this idiotic error called Soviet Union( We all thought of that as temporary and prepared for independence our whole lives. And when we finally declared independence, the country was still there, it had not ceased to exist. Whereas many other Soviet states had ceased to exist in actuality. They had been completely Russified, their life, at least in education, esp higher education, science, administration etc was already all in Russian by 1990ies. And their mentality had changed, they had forgotten their own statehood. This is why the are not very well functioning countries today. Estonia was always different from all that shit. You cannot start a country by just declaring it. It will not work. Bur Estonia is working. It is not ideal in any way, I am critical about loads of things here. But in general, we are a well/to/do free democracy where people are free, in every way. We enjoy our culture, being one of only 47 nations in the world who have higher education in their national language. We are economically quite well off, considering .... We have managed to keep our values, not only political. Values like respect for nature and animals, importance of education and freedom, relying on laws and justice as the guarantee for fair treatment *not on who/knows/who as it is in Russia). Of course, the Russians fucked up our country. We now have a third of our population as Russians. Most of them live in a parallel world, not learning the language. they know nothing about our life and culture, they watch Russian TV and movies. And they live according to Rusian ethical standards which are very different from ours. It pisses me off, hearing all that Russian everywhere around me, I am not denying it. I wish they would just leave. When Russians have a picnic in nature, they leave their stuff there. When Russians have a party, they do not care that other people in their homes might want to sleep at 3 am and they should stop screaming their heads off...etc. They talk about what a stupid country Estonia is, BUT they would not leave
The Baltic Republic are a fascinating case study in International Relations. There aren't many other similar examples. But it has set in place an important principle in international law. Of course, their independence threw up some important questions on minority rights for the Russian communities in the three countries. I hope to come back to this in a future video.
Do you think Manchuria (Manchukuo) can one day regain its independence? Hope to see an episode on Manchuria
You should revisit Southern Cameroons aka Ambazonia crisis. Paul Biya of Cameroon will not win the war.
@@eksiarvamus They were not there illegally, and most of the ones there now were born there.
Thank you. What significance would this have for Scottish, Irish & Welsh independence?
You should watch a movie named The Soviet Story
its on youtube
We love the three amazing Baltic nations here in Ireland and have huge links with all three. They are to be cherished as free, democratic and independent nations integral to Europe.
Iceland, being the first country to recognize Lithuania's independence - the first recognition for a Baltic State - is, and has always been, a source of immense pride for the Icelandic people. Deemed "reckless" and "impulsive", for a nation of 250.000 people, by most of Iceland's allies and encouraged to "fall in line" by US officials - At least Iceland did something.
What effect that impulsive behavior had on the Baltic States battle is of course debatable. What isn't debatable is our pride!
Lithuanians are very thankful for that. Visit Lithuania, an Iceland street in old town of Vilnius ;)
and we dont forget that. thank you Iceland
Thanks from Latvia too, Iceland! 😉
It is a bit unfair to say that Iceland "was the first country to recognize them" since some countries like the US hadn't seized to recognize us throughout the Cold War.
@@rupsikas1950 Sure, US role in Baltics indepentence has plaid mayor role then and still does now. I can be thankfull for that as well, and cross fingers for democratic stability in US and West over all.
Hi, as Estonian who was born in Soviet Union and participated in Singing Revolution, I think this is exceptionally good overview of what happened.
I’m very proud of my Latvian heritage. Both my parents were refugee children. They met as teenagers in NYC and made sure that my sister and I participated in Latvian culture, including enduring an extra day of going to Saturday Latvian school when I really wanted to watch the Jetsons on TV. But now I am so grateful that they gave me the gift of knowing the Latvian language and I can visit there and communicate fluently; although everyone I talk to in Latvian can tell I speak with an American accent!
Vai zini parunu par Daliņa kājām?
@@raivorudus1070 Nezinu. Tikai zinu par "Dāliņ' soļo!"
@@edgardale4501 Tas pats ir :)
Braliukai Latviai , much love from Lithuania
The size of a country doesn't always matter. While huge countries generally play a huge role in international affairs, sometimes smaller states can play an equally significant role. The Baltic States are an example. Reclaiming their independence at the end of the 20th century is a testament that now a state cannot forcibly annex another.
Unless the countries that annexed them remain strong
we are used to revolting. we've been occupied for centuries. by that point, russia made the mistake trying to make us part of them. didn't work out too well, and russian people are still very much hated in our sociaty in some parts of the country. and vice versa.
@@thedarkdragon1437 Some parts of our country? No. EVERYWHERE we hate them. They are not welcome. And even if they live here its only acceptable if they learn our language. Otherwise GET OUT.
@@FOLIPE so they're fine
+1 countryballs Lithuania independence
I asked my Latvian aunt how the country went about re-establishing itself. She said: Latvia declared 50 years of illegal occupation and re-instated the constitution it had before the Russian invasion. She also said: we are grateful to the Russians for liberating us from the Nazis, but no one invited them to stay for 50 years!
@johnmueter378 I truly believe most Latvians are more grateful for Germans who kicked Russians out of the country. But ok.
Indeed "Conquest cannot lead to the end of a state."
Freedom is priceless
say that to livia or siria
Ask the city fathers of Carthage.
Thank you so very much. I was born in Soviet Estonia and witnessed its transition to a regained independence before leaving for Israel. My heart is with Estonia and I have friends there. It's an amazing country and I highly recommend visiting it.
Thanks so much Ephraim. I'd wanted to do this video for ages.
Fortunately, I have in fact had the chance to visit Estonia. It was absolutely lovely. I'd certainly agree that it is really worth a visit. I was in Tartu, which has an excellent university. In fact, I have a long-term collaboration with a professor there. I actually landed in Riga and then caught a bus up there, which was a truly wonderful journey. There was one specific spot on the journey that I will never forget. Truly magical, in the very real sense of the word.
What made you leave for Israel
I was a minor then , so I left with my family. But regardless, it was a time of strong ethnic awakening amongst Estonians, and others of the USSR. Jews were affected as well - feeling belonging to Israel and disappointment of growing antisemitism.
@@ephraimbrener9143 well you rarely hear about the Jewish community of Estonia and Latvia considering it's so small
@@JamesKerLindsay I'm watching the video a day before our independence day. Greetings from Tartu, hope to see you here sometime!
Very interesting video! I love the Baltic states having visited all 3 of them.
Their story made me think about the fact that a country doesn't always have to have a single independence date. A few years ago, the Baltic States celebrated 100 years of independence and now they're celebrating 30 years of achieving it again. Both events deserve to be recognised as the countries gaining independence.
Its similar with other countries such as Ireland which went from Easter Rising to the first Dáil to the Free State, a new constitution and finally a Republic. All could be argued as the date of independence when in reality, answering a single date is misleading when all are significant.
Keep up the great work!
Thanks so much GW. You are absolutely right. And I really do want to take a look at Ireland at some point, as you know. It has such an interesting history. A bit like Australia, Canada, etc. it is hard to pin down exactly what moment it really gained full independence. I hope all is well with you.
Trying to reclaim your independence and free yourself from under the shadow of a big bully is no doubt very tough, but the sense of jubilation and joy one felt from a fully independent status is overwhelming and well worth.🤗
We went from one union to another union. The end is the same: bring in millions of immigrants an brainwash people. This time brainwash is LGBT
I had the joy of travelling to all 3 Baltic nations in Nov 2016. I learned a lot of history in the space of a week, visiting all 3 capitals.
After loads of Balkan videos, we are now getting a video about Baltic countries. Quite an underrated place.
Thanks Nabil. You are absolutely right. The Baltics don't get enough attention. I hope to do more on them. There are some interesting other aspects to look at.
@@JamesKerLindsay Would very much look forward to that. As Nabil said it's underrated, and as a Brit, I think it's possibly the one region of Europe whose history we underappreciate the most.
Excellent video as usual James :)
There is one truth - you can't choose the neibhors. But we will do everything to stay independent and live by our selfs.
This episode struck a memory for me, for I was listening toRadio Vilnius on my shortwave radio, back in February 1991, when the Soviets sent their tanks into that city. I remember the announcer stating that tanks could be seen from the broadcast house, and that they would stay on the air as long as possible.
I just pulled out my old QSL verification card: Radio Vilnius, 18 Feb 1991, at 23h00 UTC, on 7400 kHz frequency.
In terms of cultural survival, the Baltic states and Poland are fascinating case studies. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth was for a time the most powerful state in Europe, given the weird state of play in Western Europe before the Enlightenment. but over time as the state and its successors declined, and the nations were divvied up again and again by other powers, somehow they maintained a real, concrete sense of themselves as peoples. The more I read the less I'm convinced this is unique, but it was reading about this region of the world that first got me broadly into history in late Elementary school. I'm glad any time I can see this discussed in a holistic way.
Thanks Tim. It is amazing to think that Lithuania was once such a large entity. Sadly, they really don't get enough attention, and yet their history is so fascinating. I had the really good fortune to go to Latvia and Estonia a few years ago. They really are lovely. I caught Estonia in late-May, when the weather was absolutely beautiful. There is something truly special about them.
Yes, you're absolutely right that the Commonwealth was powerful but Lithuania was doing quite well for itself before that time: say, in the 15th century, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was the largest state in Europe. The way it became the largest one and the international relations Vytautas the Great fostered were quite intriguing though:) If you asked Poles to name the 'glory days' of their state, they'd probably go for the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth but we Lithuanians would mostly pick the times of the Grand Duchy:) Just because:)))))))) When it comes down to the Soviet period, most Lithuanians did not identify with the occupiers. We saw ourselves as Lithuanians -- it's the others outside the USSR that saw us as some sort of a consolidated entity of Soviets (much like proputin Russians see 'the West' now -- 'they're all the same':). Yes, there was some confusion when we heard certain propaganda things at school but we heard completely different stories at home. And you didn't need to go far having so many family members tortured, killed, and exiled by the Soviets (oops, the liberators). I still remember the first time my grandmother showed me the real flag of Lithuania which she's hidden for long years. It was wow:) We've always felt very strongly about our language, you know one of the oldest ones in the world:). Having said that, I don't think it was something unique. It just makes sense for us to be free -- we know how to do it:)))
@@uzstiklo7141 regarding language, Lithuanian isnt oldest, it is most ancient, most archaic
Not unique at all. There are many examples of stateless nations, less of nations that had and reachieved nationhood. In Europe you can look up for example the 400 year gap between the end of the Byzantine Empire and the reestablishment of a Greek state at 1821.
As someone whos been watching you for over a year, I just want to thank you for this video, because I'm from Lithuania.
Thank you so much. And warmest congratulations on the 30th anniversary of your regained independence. It is a wonderful story. Unfortunately, I’ve never been to Lithuania. (I’ve been to Latvia and Estonia.) I would love to go one day. In the meantime, thanks for the support for the channel. I really appreciate it! Best wishes from London.
@@JamesKerLindsay Thank you for everything. And when times will be better i hope you will visit Lithuania because there a lot of interesting places to see.
Thanks again. I really do hope I will be able to visit one day.
The story of the reemergence of the Baltic states amid the dissolution of the Soviet Union has always been of interest to me.
Thanks. Me too. They don't get much attention, but their history is fascinating.
Fantastic insight, James. Big fan of your videos ! I met a Lithuanian 10 yrs back and he mentioned he was born on the day of independence of Lithuania. Little did I know then that what he meant was Lithuania's reclaimed independence !
Thanks so much. :-) The Baltic Republics really are a fascinating group of countries with a history that is far more interesting than most people realise. The fact that Lithuania was once the largest state in Europe is pretty amazing.
I'm really grateful for your video. I believe it's really important to have this clear and impartial view of history. As a lithuanian I thank you. Cheers!
Thank you. It is an incredible story. And actually rather crucial for understanding modern international law in cases of invasion and occupation.
When you said Estonia was one of the last countries to convert to Christianity you might've wanted to mention that Lithuania was THE last to do so.
i think it was mentioned in estonia's case to provide one possible reason why christianity is alien to us while lithuania doesn't have that relationship with christianity (and tbf lithuania adopted it voluntarily while estonians were forced).
@@hullmees666 As far as I know ordinary Lithuanians resisted the adoption and held on to their pagan practices long after the official conversion. Which is why, indeed, both in theory and practice, Lithuania was the last country in Europe to convert to Christianity.
@@Arissef Yes, we still have some pagan holidays.
@@bt4670 We have a lot of pagan traditions and events it also, depends on region.
@Whatever ... same in Latvia. While we weren't our own state by that time, Christianity was forced upon us. Some pagan leaders converted to get out of the Teutons radar of conquest, but in secret most of them still followed the pagan faith.
This is one of my favorite moments in recent history, but if never thought of it in terms of the precedent it set for conquest being an illegitimate way to change national borders. Thank you as always!
Thanks so much Fredo. It really is an interesting story. This was a video I had wanted to do for a long time. Many years ago I went to the Museum of the Occupation in Riga and was really struck by the letter from George Bush reaffirming their independence. okupacijasmuzejs.lv/en/
And how important this video is today!! Thank you
Thank you for making this! I'm Latvian-American, and I struggle to explain our history succinctly, so a video like yours that explains this topic so well and in such an accessible format is great! Will definitely be showing this to people in the future.
Another excellent video James. I have always loved the Baltic States. I have actually been to all of them. And hope to go again. Keep up the great work. I think it's very disgraceful that the massive Soviet Union would take over the small Baltic states like the way they did and so it's great that you highlighted that most countries didn't recognize this forced takeover.
Retake, right? I mean they were made independent after WW1 due to the harsh peace terms imposed by the Germans.
In 1939, Lithuania was at first assigned to Germany, unlike Latvia and Estonia. That didn't pan out though.
Thank you James for such a precise and informational video! I am Latvian and I do remember barricades, shootings and the huge tension at end of the sommer 1991. I was 7 years old at the time and I thought we are all going to die when Russians tried to took back the power. My parents listened radio news and we were all very, very frightened by what happened. Luckily they didn't gain nothing!
The Baltic countries include Estonia,Latvia and Lithuania wanted break away from the Soviet Union and they gained independence to pursue their own paths...They joined NATO and their relationship with Russia is frosty...
Small countries getting independence from a nuclear super power very impressive and inspiring.
I completely agree!
It would be fascinating to see you talk about Finland's history of independence and the context of early independence movements 🇫🇮
@7:42 re USSR sending in the military. There's an aspect here that is unmentioned but very important. Leading up to the invasion more and more young men were refusing to be called up for conscription. In Lithuania it was up to 90%. Officers who saw the writing on the wall began to organise to oppose the use of the army against the people to prop up the USSR. When the troops in Lithuania were ordered out of garrison to suppress the independence movement by seizing gov't buildings and the TV tower many refused. Officers disappeared, refusing to report for duty. The military was fracturing over the Baltics. This wasn't fighting an external enemy. Troops from outside Lithuania had to be brought in.
The massacre of people caused revulsion amongst many in the military - active duty, reservists, and veterans. Veterans and reservists smashed their medals and impaled their military IDs in fences outside the garrisons and at the army barricades. This was mutiny. Keep in mind the population of the Baltic states was quite small. What if the same happened amongst Ukrainian and Belarusian troops, who comprised a much larger percentage of the military? The two republics also had nuclear weapons. The ICBMs were pretty well under the command and control of the Kremlin, but the same couldn't be said of nuclear bombs and battlefield tactical nukes.
The military was what was keeping the USSR together, and it fracturing revealed the bonds to maintain the USSR no longer existed.
Just stumbled across this as a bit of research before a trip to the Baltics - interesting and well put together commentary - thanks for creating this video.
These videos have a great format: setting out the basic facts and history of the countries being discussed in a succinct way which helps put the rest of the commentary into context.
Thank you so much Andrew. I really appreciate it. I have always liked to think that it is helpful to put current events in a wider historical and political context, rather than just jumping in.
Always loved visiting the Baltic states (have not visited the southernmost state). It is interesting to note that conquest is no longer seen as legitimate means to incorporate an entire state into another state - and even the respective states not recognising Soviet rule, wherein they still celebrate their national days referencing dates in early 20th century rather than dates post collapse of Soviet Union.
However, is conquest still seen as legitimate when it comes to incorporating portions of territory of a larger country? Taking another Soviet example, where South Sakhalin was annexed after the Second World War - where a majority of the population were Japanese, was not disputed.
Thanks Anirudh. Like you, I've been to Latvia and Estonia, but not to Lithuania. I would love to go at some point.
Great question. The invasion and occupation of parts of territory is not accepted either. The principle of the territorial integrity of states is a key tenet of the UN Charter. However, the reality is of course slightly different. Annexation of territory is becoming a real concern in a number of cases - most notably Russia and Crime, but also Israel and the Palestinian territories. The invasion and annexation of entire states is, of course, relatively rare. Perhaps the most obvious recent example was Iraq's attempt to annexe Kuwait in 1990, which led to the First Gulf War.
@@JamesKerLindsay very interesting. Could you perhaps do a video on this topic of annexation and occupation. Not just in the case of Israel and Russia but also perhaps; Turkish occupation of Northern Syria, Yemen crisis with Saudi Arabia.
Perhaps even the issue of Unification such as Yemen and Germany in the 90s, potential of Korea or even Maldova and Romania.
Just an idea
@@JamesKerLindsay good morning! Annexation is indeed becoming an issue and in this sense and if two members of UN view the territorial integrity of a particular member differently, it causes issues like Russia and Crimea (speaking of UN, incidentally for one of my high school MUNs, I was the delegate of Latvia, my first time researching deep about the country).
@Asir Newaz Khan - very interesting, yes. That many countries exercise de facto control over territories without actually claiming them like Turkey in Northern Syria.
The US never formally recognized the seizure of territories from Finland.
Good point. This is a topic I’ve wanted to cover for ages.
@@JamesKerLindsay Interesting that George Bush Sr, the one legally elected, met in Kiyev asking the Ukrainians not to separate from the USSR the day before they did.
Yep as an Estonian we are none religious and thank god
god?
@@siasurveillancevan8112 Taara
@@siasurveillancevan8112tänu paganale
I met a lot of christian Estonians.
@@butterflies655 jep...and I was in church today saying goodbye to a dear neighbour...was respectful while thinking did god make this man what he was while the pastor waxed on on about Jebus. Or just a good person...with or without
You should cover the Ethiopian Tigray conflict and the possible state collapse that might happen
Thanks, John. I’ve done about three or four on Tigray. You can find them in my Africa Playlist or by scrolling through the videos. I hope to return to it soon. There are so many important angles to it.
Very good. I have traveled to each one of these countries. Using your video to educate my friends and family about how democracy can win.
To hell with democracy. I want Kārlis Ulmanis back! To hell with the EU.
Great video!
I would love it if you made a video exactly like this but for the Caucasus states!
Yes! South Caucasus is a very interesting theme.
Thanks for the excellent suggestion. I have touched a bit on their history in a couple of videos. But I should really take a more focused look.
Im from Latvia... we are small, but strong!
Indeed! A stunningly beautiful country too. I was fortunate to travel from Riga to Tartu in neighbouring Estonia about ten years ago. It was amazing.
Maybe we are small but we are strong greetings from Lithuania
Atmostas Baltija, atmostas Baltija
Lietuva, Latvija, Igaunija!
Bunda jau Baltija, bunda jau Baltija
Lietuva, Latvija, Estija!
Ärgake Baltimaad, ärgake Baltimaad
Leedumaa, Lätimaa, Eestimaa!
This one is really informative. In Australia the coverage of these mechanisms was extremely limited.
As a Lithuanian this is very accurate video, I couldn't add much to this. Thank you for informing english speaking world about our history
Thank you so much. It is an incredible story. By the way, I really hope to go to Lithuania at some point. It is one of only two EU members I have never been to (along with Malta).
This was an informative summary of the history and status of the Baltic states. I enjoyed listening to your commentary as usual. It is too bad that the Chechen, Ingush, Tuvan and Tatar Republics, all independent at one time in the past or seeking independence, even today, were not able to follow the Baltic example at the time of the breakup of the Soviet Union. They would have benefitted greatly also upon regaining their freedoms.
Thank you so much Jay. Someone else mentioned taking a look at the Caucasus as well. I really should try to get round to doing it. It is such a fascinating and complex picture. This particular video was one I had wanted to make for a while. I went to Latvia and Estonia a few years ago and was really taken by them. But what really stood out was my trip to the Museum of the Occupation, in Riga. It is fascinating. But there was a letter from President Bush reaffirming their statehood. It really struck me as a fascinating document. Most people just probably thought of it as a nice item on display, but I remember thinking of the profound significance of this letter, not just for Latvia but for wider the wider international system. In any case, the museum is an absolute must visit for any going to Latvia. okupacijasmuzejs.lv/en/
Oh yes, so many independent states in the past, like Bavaria and Pomerania and Wales and Occitania are not independent anymore.
@@FOLIPE and others are colonies like Puerto Rico and Guan
Great job James. So economically informative!
Thank you so much!
Thanks for the lecture, sensei!
the video reminder me the story of Sikkim, can you do a video of the possibility of the territory. Thanks and regards
Excellent video, it is clear that the older the facts you are talking about, the more impartial your story seems.
I feel well educated by this. Nice job.
Thank you!
I have only ever been to Estonian's capital when I went to Helsinki and we took a ferry there. It sure is a beautiful country Estonia.
Nice video though James. I never really knew much about the Baltic States. And so it was interesting seeing you cover them.
Completely agree! I absolutely loved Estonia (and Latvia) when I went a few years ago. There was something really magical about them.
Thx very much. After searching for a good video talking about the subject I found this. We are facing another war in Europe and in a few words you teach ne so much. Thanks again.
Excellent
Thank you so much!
Hmmm... I'm from Lithuania, and I think the part why Russia changed its mind and agreed to recognize Baltic states in 1991 September, should have mentioned a failed August military coup in Moscow, which was the key in turning tables around.
Thanks. I did wonder about putting it in, but it seemed unnecessary. The point still stood that by August 1991 the USSR had given up the fight. I will mention it in the follow up, which will look at the events after September leading up to the final collapse of the Soviet Union.
@@JamesKerLindsay the thing is, during events in Lithuania on January 13, 1991, when Sovyet soldiers successfully occupied TV tower and TV studios of Lithuanian National TV, the collaborative pro-USSR programming stayed on TVs till the very aforementioned coup in Moscow. Only after the failed coup, the sovyet journalists couldn't do anything else, but pack their things and shamefully abandon TV tower and studios. Thanks to Yeltsin.
@@Mantvydas Soviet Soldiers not Russian Soldiers, wasn't it like that that the RSFSR leadership and citizen weren't to happy about what the central government of the USSR tried in lithuania in 1991 and Russian citizens actually protested if I remember it correctly
@@darkoratic2339 thanks, you're right, I fixed Russian soldiers into Sovyet soldiers, they really were from across the union. And yes, to this day there are many supportive russians, that was my fast ignorant mistake.
@@darkoratic2339 yeah, i remember seeing stuff about yeltsin's supporters and people from baltics being very friendly. too bad how things ended up in the end between the countries.
A video on separation of Czechoslovakia would be great. As it happened peacefully unlike other 90s revolution affected countries
Thanks. This is on my to do list. Two of my closest friends are Czech and Slovak. I remember that I actually had them over for lunch on the anniversary of the Velvet Divorce (quite by accident). They both found that very amusing. :-) I also find it really interesting that they also get on so well. Many people who know both countries often wonder why they split!
@@JamesKerLindsay yeah both countries population are not hostile towards each other which is very nice. Hope more people get to know about these great countries
I have contravertial one.
I just watched this. And then went back to your older videos and watched one about hawaii. So here is my question?
Isn't the thing that Russians did to Baltics same as the thing that USA did to Hawaii? Or, as you mentioned at the end of your video on Hawaii, Puerto Rico? With only difference being that USA managed to supress native population and successfully annex (*ahm* conquer *ahm*) other country, while Russia simply failed.
What are your opinions on that?
I know, this may be contraversial one, but I think it is a good question for discussion
Демократия это не повод для дискуссии, а вещать он будет только то, что оплачено...
@@user-cf3vz9nd4k Мислим да ово није пропагандни канал и да он заиста поставља ствари које га занимају. Такође, рекао бих да је поприлично објективан у својим видеима. Као пример узећу његове клипове о Косову, где заиста није заузео ни једну страну.
Ипак, интересује ме шта ће рећи на ово моје питање
Thanks, Pavle. You are absolutely right. There is no escaping the fact that the United States annexed Hawaii. It was a shameful act. And Puerto Rico, Guam, etc. are just colonies by another name. But it is also worth noting that Russia also conquered and annexed a lot of territory. It wouldn't be the huge size it is today if it hadn't! And it too has managed to suppress a lot of native movements. What this really shows is that there are many different relationships that states can have with conquered territory. In some cases, it becomes an integral part of the state - fully assimilated and integrated. In other cases, there is a looser relationship, that might become tighter with time, or else can lead to the eventual independence of the territory in question. It is a fascinating question. But certainly the United States has had its own history of conquest and colonialism - despite what many may think. (But, to be fair, it has done a better job acknowledging it than many other countries. At least it apologised to Hawaiians. It can't fix the past, but it does show understanding for how it hurt a people.)
@@JamesKerLindsay Of course the descendants of the last queen of Hawaii could become the royal family of the whole US!
@@JamesKerLindsay In the case of the Baltic states they were an integral part of the Soviet Union, so more like Hawaii than Puerto Rico?
This case of state extinction is very interesting
Thanks Marco. It is a really fascinating situation. I had wanted to do this video for ages. I remember going to the Museum of the Occupation in Riga a number of years ago. I was struck by the copy of President Bush’s letter to them reaffirming their independence. It really is a remarkable document. By the way, here is the link to the Museum okupacijasmuzejs.lv/en/
James,
Your presentations are both timely and most interesting.
One area that gets little attention in eastern Europe is Kaliningrad. Prussia has both an interesting history and an important one in both Europe and Germany. Going forward it will be interesting to see if this area emerges once again as an independent state. While most if not all of the Germans have been driven out post WWIi, it would be worth reviewing its current important role to Russia and its historical place in European history and its curious role as a Russian outpost in Eastern Europe. I thought you might agree.
Regards…
The issue is that the ENTIRE population there has come from elsewhere (other parts of Russia) and they are essentially rootless. Prussia is for them only a historical curiosity and they do not value its cultural heritage, since it is foreign to them.
We Wish to Feature about the Independence of Kazakhstan please!!!!
Thanks. I hope to do a video on the final dissolution of the Soviet Union later on. The 30th anniversary is coming up.
Excellent video on self-determination!
Thanks so much! It is such an interesting and important case. It also explains why they were rather different from the other Soviet Republics.
@@JamesKerLindsay Definitely different because those annexed territories belonged to already recognized sovereign States that retained their rights to later liberate those annexed areas by exercising their respective rights of self-determination, irrespective of usurpation of government, displacement of sovereignty, or whether the situation was colonial or otherwise, just like Hong Kong, Macao, Korea, Gibraltar, Morocco, Ceuta, Melilla, Somaliland, Congo Free State, Orange Free State, Hyderabad, the Hawaiian Islands, Lew Chew, and perhaps even Crimea if you consider it as part of Russia.
Thank you, sir!
I was born in Estonia in 1934 and escaped to the west 1n 1938 and published a book "The Estonian Spy "on Amazon in June 2023.
Thank you.
Top quality content 👍🏻
Thanks for the video James. How could such a peaceful process not only work but result in the collapse the parent country? Many countries would have chosen war if a similar situation arose, why didn’t the USSR?
Thanks. Great question! That is one of the really interesting conundrums of modern history. I think it came down to a number of factors. I didn't cover it, but the failed coup in August 1991 certainly played a part. I will try to come back to this in another video.
@@JamesKerLindsay I’ve heard about the coup but I don’t know much, I would love a video discussing these questions!
Reclaiming independence of Baltic States was not a direct reason for USSR to collapse. The USSR itself could not go on with it's plan economics, it needed the capitalism, supply and demand. Because it could not keep planning 5 years how the economy will go or what they gonna manufacture or invest in this time. They needed more flexible system. Along with that one-party politics line was changing into many parties, democracy, freedom of speech started to rise.
Also another war after the recently ended Afghanistan war would be looking bad in the eyes of the rest of the world, again because of crumbling iron curtain when is impossible to hide anything.
Happy I found your videos their great 👍
Thank you so much! And a very warm welcome to the channel. :-)
Thanks Prof 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks, as always, Peter.
We must respect the resolve of those in these Baltic States.
The musical and artistic folk festivals in the Baltic countries is very much like the Welsh eisteddfod.
Very interesting video
I noticed that this video is clearer than the rest of your videos. Did you have a new camera?
Thanks so much Marco. I hoped someone might notice. :-) Yes, I upgraded my camera. I used to use the Canon M50. It is great to start with, and many people on TH-cam begin with it, but I was becoming more and more frustrated with its limitations. Instead, I went for a dedicated video camera: the Canon XA40. By the way, was the sound OK on this video. I am trying to work on that.
My recomendation. You should try do topics that no youtuber has done a video about
Thanks. I'd make a couple of points. First, I realise that many topics have been done, but I try to take a different perspective on things and put them in a wider International Relations context. Also, I don't want to be another current affairs channel just chasing after news. There are too many of those, many of rather poor quality. I certainly cover newsworthy topics, but I like to think that I can also be a useful - and trusted - reference source on many historical issues.
@@JamesKerLindsay i mean more like historical things as. Sweden norway union or the coup of 1969
i love the baltic countries, and speaking of the baltics, could kaliningrad become independent one day? and what would have to be done by the international community to make it so?
Me too. I have been fortunate enough to have been to Latvia and Estonia, though sadly not Lithuania. Great suggestion on Kaliningrad. I will certainly give it some thought.
I remember (ignorantly and jokingly) calling my Latvian friend a "Russian". She was obviously not happy and I eventually apologised. Hahaha.
But I also remember seeing an old Malayan passport that stated the passport was not valid for the USSR, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia. At first I was rather confused as to why they had to write out the three individual Baltic states.
Watching your video, I eventually learnt how the general international community back then still recognised the three Baltic states as de jure independent countries even though they are de facto under the USSR back then. Thank you so much for the video, James!
Thanks so much. Interestingly, and I didn't really touch on this in the video, but a quarter of the populations of Estonia and Latvia are still Russian. (Lithuania has a much smaller percentage, around 5%.) So, there was a chance that she could have actually been Russian. But, if she wasn't, I can imagine that it might have not gone down too well!
Such an interesting point about the passport. I hadn't heard about that before!
@@JamesKerLindsay Yes, that's true. I am also aware with the fact that there's a significant Russian minority living in these Baltic states. There is even a Russian Worker's Party there which I think was quite shocking. My friend was in fact an ethnic Latvian so of course she wasn't really happy with my lame jokes. Hahaha.
The Malayan passport I talked about also stated it won't work in Hong Kong and China. I could only assume it was because of the same reason as to why they wrote out the USSR and the Baltic states: Recognition of the state's sovereignty from the annexing power but still recognise the fact that the state has been annexed by said annexing power.
oh yes I don't like when somebody call me Russians🙂 Greetings From Lithuania!
@@eksiarvamus Except that a quarter are. So, equally, it is wrong to assume that they are not. My wife comes from a country where there is an assumption that people will come from the majority community. The subject of the country came up, and the person next to her launched into a diatribe about how awful the minority people were! It led to a rather embarrassing situation. Better to just tread carefully.
@@eksiarvamus Read my comment again, carefully.
Hi, I noticed that since January there has been fighting in Biafra in Nigeria. Ambazonia in Cameroon AND IPOB in Nigeria recently allied as well
❤ forgot mention of Uffe Elleman Jensen, who ensured NATO membership of the Baltics.
10:39 "conquest cannot lead to the end of a state." If that's the case then what happened to Hyderabad State, which gained independence in 1947 only to be annexed a year later by India? Also, even when conquest was a legitimate method of acquiring territory, there are certain instances where a state can be extinguished in fact but that the identity of the state continues and retains the ability to be revived to continue precisely from the point that the state was suppressed and its sovereignty suspended. One example is where a neutral country is acquired by conquest or conquered during a war and the territory is later liberated. Another example is where all or a portion of a country offers no resistance to conquest and the territory is later liberated. A third example is in the case of a fake revolution and establishment of a puppet government and the territory is later liberated. A fourth example is when the conquered state is liberated from the conqueror by another state (i.e. a state already at war with the conqueror). In nearly every instance, foreign nations are obligated under international law to recognize territory acquired by conquest as a being part of the conqueror's territory while possession continues. It is only after liberation that the state can be seen to resume its legal personality in continuity with its former identity. Unlike a biological entity, a state under certain circumstances can be re-animated after death with all its former rights and obligations intact. Until the point of revival, an extinct state has only limited options, one of which is the ability to reconstitute a government in-exile and attempt to re-establish diplomatic relations with states that once recognized it, as well as establishing new diplomatic relations with other states. Note that the reconstituted government, even with recognition, is not technically a state until it again satisfies the criteria for statehood, which necessarily involves approximately the same population and territory in order to successfully establish continuity of state identity. If the reconstituted government attempts to assert statehood without first recapturing most of its ancient territory (not including its former colonies or dependencies, if any) and/or recapturing some of its ancient territory while issuing a public protest against the illegal occupation as to the remainder, the state will risk permanent extinction of its original identity and permanent loss of territory. Intervening states and non-state actors can facilitate restoration provided they remain in compliance with relevant humanitarian and international law, including the laws of war.
Professor James, you messed up with the time-line. Gorbachov declared "Glasnost and Perestroika" in March 1984. That was before the Chernobyl disaster.
Georgia was the most aggressive for independence. Do you remember April 9, 1989 that Soviet forces crushed peaceful protestors? Georgian dissidents pushed hard for promoting independence for the republics. Afterward, Georgia had peaceful election, ousted the Communists and declared the independence in April. 9, 1991.
Estonians were preparing for several years underground and in politics in top levels.
It did not spread but were forced to come out a bit early to not get cought later.
Generally correct but at some points some wordings sugest wrong things.
Estonia(ERR the public broadcasting network) has detailed documentaries (video, audio and images) and info about planning and executing it by the main people(telling the stories) who organized the revolt and everything related. Anyone who would want to do a video about Estonia regaining the indepencence should watch them.
Im lithuanian and i do feel as a small nation we are quite tough 💪💪💪
Indeed! :-)
Correct, RE-Gained
10:20 thats exactly the day I was born in Latvia 17.09.1991
What a day to be born!
Lithuania once was biggest European country, stretching from Baltic to Black sea, leaving no chance to go on land from West to East Europe, without cutting it's territory. And also Lithuania was last country to convert from paganism to chrisrianity :)
I wish Karelia also gained recognition when it became a Union Republic before being reinstated as an Autonomous Republic.
And now another attempt to annexation, Belarus...🙄
Thanks. I actually want to do a video on Karelia at some point. It is such an interesting story.
@@JamesKerLindsay looking forward. 🙏
During the whole time of Soviet occupation, there were 3 Baltic embassies staffed in Washington.
Yes I am curious about that. Who appointed their ambassadors? Was there "governments in exile" as during WWII? What kind of day-to-day work did the embassies do?
@@markmh835 I‘m not sure, if you find out, let me know
I'm russian from Latvia, glad to have our own country called Latvia, we surely do have problems in Latvia. But I know that my kids will live in beauitiful and rich Latvia.
Hey I just came to your latest video to inform you that McDonald's is useing your (old) intro music for their employment ad on TH-cam. 😂
Greetings, professor. Nice video. I trully appreciated your on the Baltic States. Two interesting facts: Former LSSR leader First Secretary of the Lithuanian Communist Party Central Commitee Antanas Snieckus was the longest serving Communist Leader of the Baltic States:(1903-1974). Unlike his fellow Communist Leaders from other Baltic States: Estonia's Nikolai Karotamm (1901-1969), Latvia's Augusts Voss (1919-1994). Lithuanian partisan war lasted almost for a decade, thus being one of the longest partisan war in Europe: (1944-1953). And for the conclusion Russia still refuses to acknowledge illegitimacy of the Soviet occupation and annexation of the three Baltic States. Commenting that Estonia, Latvia,Lithuania willingly joined the USSR. In fact that is a big lie.
Thank you so much. It was a week later than I had originally planned, but coincided perfectly with the 30th anniversary of their membership of the United Nations. :-)
Thanks so much for the point about Russia questioning their independence. I thought to go into this, but it really seemed irrelevant - and I didn't want to take away from the main positive story by adding this footnote. But I might come back to it in a future video. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33325842
studying cees these vids are really helpful thanks
Thanks. So glad they are useful!
Hi James, do you have videos talking about the Khmer Rouge and the vietnamese ocupation of Cambodia?
2:07 Wow, I didn't expect to see this channel use a page from a webcomic (Stand Still, Stay Silent).
I expected you to make a video on this, given the anniversary
Thanks Roger. I had planned to do it last week, but went with the Montenegro video instead. But this was actually a video that I had wanted to do for ages. I went to the Museum of the Occupation in Riga many years ago and was really struck by the letter from President Bush they had put on display reaffirming their regained independence. okupacijasmuzejs.lv/en/
@@JamesKerLindsay Thank you very much, to be fair, I think it's better that you released it today, because it's a day after the anniversary, and I personally think it's better
Hi from Baltic states 🇪🇪🇱🇻🇱🇹👋
Hello there!
Do the Video about the Independence of Turkmenistan please!!!
Thanks. I hope to do a video on the final dissolution of the Soviet Union later on. The 30th anniversary is coming up.
Hi James, can you also make a video about the west African countries and why there been a lot of coups happening in west African countries.
Thanks. Great suggestion! Let me look into it.
@@JamesKerLindsay Thanks 🙏
Great video that lead me to think if we reverse think (ocupation cannot lead to dissolution of a state), we'll see some examples of countries that emerged from another country because of politics while culture, language and history are the same.
Thanks so much Nikola. This is a really interesting point. I find the idea of kin states fascinating. Two states that should be one, but by dint of history have emerged as separate countries: Greece and Cyprus, Serbia and Montenegro, Romania and Moldova, etc. I should perhaps try to do more on this.
@@JamesKerLindsay Maybe some Arab states as well..
@@mouniash Thanks. Indeed. Great point!
Good video, but those countries should be referred to as the "Baltic republics" only in Soviet context, otherwise as the Baltic states or countries.
Thanks a lot. Point well taken! You are right, Baltic States and Baltic countries are often used - if not more commonly used - terms. Although the term Baltic Republics is also used to describe them. (They are, after all, republics.)
@@JamesKerLindsay the term Baltic republics (as in "the Baltic Republics of the USSR) is a geopolitical anachronism. True, they are all republics per se, but how many times have you heard Sweden, Norway and Denmark being conflated as "the Scandinavian kingdoms", although they are monarchies in nature?
Thank you, that was very interesting 😀 I’m 1/4 🇺🇦 and the rest of me is 🇬🇧. My 🇺🇦grandad was taken by the very bad Germans at the time from his home at 14 to work in Germany. Who knows how many were taken. At the end of the war he and the rest were told that it was too dangerous to go back and they had to forget their childhood home and move to Australia, canada or the uk. They shouldn’t try to contact their family in Ukraine (& wherever they came from) because bad things could happen to their families. So it just wasn’t spoken about. He’d have been amazed now by the support around the world for Ukraine 🇺🇦
One of my 🇺🇦cousins can remember always being cold & hungry, holes in her too small shoes, barely any toys. Once we could get in touch with them we found a courier and we’d send 4/5 huge boxes of stuff, she still remembers her 1st taste of hot chocolate, biscuits and uk chocolate, when we sent them Belgian chocolate omg, they’d never tasted anything like it. I have tasted the chocolate from the early 90s, I’m not a chocolate lover but ugh 🤮it was like having a really cheap chocolate made 95% worse with sand mixed in. She recently asked us if we could send tea we have here in 🇬🇧 she had been telling her teen about it.
Ukraine has come a long, long way since then, it appears their aggressive neighbour with an egotistical selfish, greedy, corrupt & obnoxious head hasn’t come very far at all. Particularly in the places that aren’t big cities.
I don't know how the Baltic states asserted their independence during the occupation. But i remember attending a Lithuanian Festival at the Lithuanian consulate in Chicago in rhe 1980s. And I always wondered who had appointed the consul-general. Did the Baltic states have "governments-in-exile" during the occipation?
yes
@@lolikususs Figures that was the case.
I would say that the concept is certainly somewhat selective in how it is applied and by whom, in practice the realpolitik determines the course of action as recognition/non-recognition is fundamentally a diplomatic lever that is used in response to geopolitical moves, though obviously there is plenty incentive to grabbing the moral high ground and not recognizing a fresh conquest (ie Crimea), plus in if the tide of opinion later turns you can then use recognition as a bargaining chip for concessions.
That being said, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, and Finland, effectively also a Baltic state, have a long history of being colonized by different powers, the Danes, the Swedes, for a long time the Germans, the Poles in some areas, and finally the Russians, gaining independence for a little while before the Soviets and Germans briefly each took over, and then the Soviets came back and stayed. Finland effectively removed itself from the grouping by staving off Soviet conquest in battle, while the southern three republics continued to be recognized as independent by Classicalist powers throughout the Cold War, paving the way for their quickly-recognized renewed independence when the Soviets showed weakness.
The parts of eastern Poland that were annexed by the Soviets in the same time period were not so fortunate. The Americans and British gave in and recognized the Soviets’ 1939 annexations in Galicia, along with recognizing the ceding of territory to the Soviets by Finland and Romania. Not that they had any choice…
Thanks, as ever, LocalLT. I'd say it's important to differentiate here between the conquest of entire states and the conquest of parts of states. The conquest of whole states is now very rare indeed. In fact, the only really modern case I can think of was Iraq's effort to annex Kuwait in 1990. (Western Sahara and Palestine - and East Timor - are interesting cases given the post-colonial setting.) So, admittedly, the concept discussed here is actually a rather rare occurrence in International Relations. The conquest of parts of another state's territory is certainly more common. And, seemingly, becoming more so. And the conquest of eastern Poland is a really interesting story, alongside Karelia and what is now Moldova. I really should try to come back to them.
@@JamesKerLindsayWasn't Portuguese Goa also conquered by India? Arguably Croatia also conquered Serb Karayina.
@@liberoAquila It was still a colony then it never declared independence.
Thank you, Sir
Very informative. Would love to visit the Baltic States. I'm interested to hear from Lithuanians what their view is today of communism? Regards from Australia
Thanks Tom. I haven't been to Lithuania, but I have been to Latvia and Estonia and they are absolutely beautiful. I had the good fortune to take a 5-hour bus ride from Riga to Tartu a few years back and it was truly lovely. There was one spot on the journey that was utterly magical - in the true meaning of the word!
And hopefully some Lithuanians might see this comment and answer your question. Given that anyone under 40 probably has not clear recollection of it, it would be interesting to hear what younger generations think of it having been told by their parents and grandparents.
22 year old Lithuanian here. Our pride is pretty much built on the anti soviet resistence. Especially for younger generation. I had grown up in a family where my great granparent helped anti soviet partisans at the beggining of the occupation as most of them have been simply his friends from his and surrounding villages. What makes him pretty unique was that he had a photoaparat and has made some of the largest partisan picture collections in Lithuania, my grandpa was one of the creators of the newly established military unit in my town and worked at the border control at the time soviets still have not recognised us (border patrols were actually being killed by soviet special forces here in Lithuania) when my mum was 13 my grandpa took her to the parliament protection during January events, she saw the tanks. It is safe to say, that growing up i have not heard anything positive about USSR🤣. But it is the story of basically all young Lithuanians, our parents and grandparents like to brag about their participation in various forms of resistence or atleast the baltic way. Colloboration with occupants or family members having high positions during soviet times is somethin a young person would be ashamed of and would not talk about. Soviet symbolics are banned under the same laws as nazi ones. We have destroyed or taken to museums pretty much all soviet monuments, no Lenins here or smth like that. However to this day we have some divisions when it comes to artists, like last week we took a famous poets statue out of one of the main squares in Vionius because he wrote pro soviet poems and there were people opposing that because he was still one of our best writers realistically. But this is not the division on interpretation of soviet history, but seperation of art from politics. I wrote a lot already, but if you see me and have questions ask me anything
@@JamesKerLindsay 22 year old Lithuanian here. Our pride is pretty much built on the anti soviet resistence. Especially for younger generation. I had grown up in a family where my great granparent helped anti soviet partisans at the beggining of the occupation as most of them have been simply his friends from his and surrounding villages. What makes him pretty unique was that he had a camera and made some of the largest partisan picture collections in Lithuania, my grandpa was one of the creators of the newly established military unit in my town and worked at the border control at the time when soviets still have not recognised us (border patrols were actually being killed by soviet special forces here in Lithuania) (another fun fact, you needed a recomendation from your local "sąjūdis" unit and a head priest in your church to join border control at the time), when my mum was 13 my grandpa took her to the parliament protection during January events, she saw the tanks. It is safe to say, that growing up i have not heard anything positive about USSR🤣. But it is the story of basically all young Lithuanians, our parents and grandparents like to brag about their participation in various forms of resistence or atleast the baltic way. Colloboration with occupants or family members having high positions during soviet times is somethin a young person would be ashamed of and would not talk about. Soviet symbolics are banned under the same laws as nazi ones. We have destroyed or taken to museums pretty much all the soviet monuments, no Lenins here or smth like that. However to this day we have some divisions when it comes to artists, like last week we took a famous poets statue out of one of the main squares in Vilnius because he wrote pro soviet poems and there were people opposing that because he was still one of our best writers realistically. But this is not the division on the interpretation of soviet history, but seperation of art from politics. I wrote a lot already, but if you see me and have questions ask me anything
Good riddance is what we think. The communist party was recognised as a criminal enterprise, banned immediately upon regaining independence (at the hands of its former members) and the non-reformist-minded leaders were locked up for crimes against humanity and treason. That distinction is needed because the communist party was actually pro-independence, only a small minority within it attempted a counter coup. The hammer and sickle and the five pointed red star remain strictly prohibited from public display.
Thug Rose Namajunas has said before fighting Chinese fighter - "Better dead than red" (it isnt orifginal though). Her grandparent was a millitary officer of independent Lithuania. That's what we think about communism. Lithuania accepted Taiwan and made communistic China angree on us :D
Actually, Estonian continued to be one of the two official languages also in Soviet times. And life in Estonia still went on in Estonian. Culture, poetry, literature, theatre, administration etc. We never ceased to be Estonia, this why we managed to reclaim our country. There was something to regain, we had kept it alive all this time and never thought of ourselves as anything other than the Republic of Estonia *who, for a while, had to deal with this idiotic error called Soviet Union( We all thought of that as temporary and prepared for independence our whole lives. And when we finally declared independence, the country was still there, it had not ceased to exist. Whereas many other Soviet states had ceased to exist in actuality. They had been completely Russified, their life, at least in education, esp higher education, science, administration etc was already all in Russian by 1990ies. And their mentality had changed, they had forgotten their own statehood. This is why the are not very well functioning countries today. Estonia was always different from all that shit.
You cannot start a country by just declaring it. It will not work. Bur Estonia is working. It is not ideal in any way, I am critical about loads of things here. But in general, we are a well/to/do free democracy where people are free, in every way. We enjoy our culture, being one of only 47 nations in the world who have higher education in their national language. We are economically quite well off, considering .... We have managed to keep our values, not only political. Values like respect for nature and animals, importance of education and freedom, relying on laws and justice as the guarantee for fair treatment *not on who/knows/who as it is in Russia).
Of course, the Russians fucked up our country. We now have a third of our population as Russians. Most of them live in a parallel world, not learning the language. they know nothing about our life and culture, they watch Russian TV and movies. And they live according to Rusian ethical standards which are very different from ours. It pisses me off, hearing all that Russian everywhere around me, I am not denying it. I wish they would just leave. When Russians have a picnic in nature, they leave their stuff there. When Russians have a party, they do not care that other people in their homes might want to sleep at 3 am and they should stop screaming their heads off...etc. They talk about what a stupid country Estonia is, BUT they would not leave