I am an atheist. Dr. Sean McDowell is an amazing man, his emotional intelligence, compassion and communication skills are fantastic. I disagree with him about 70% of the time, but he is one of the few Christians I find worth listening to.
You're not an atheist..u just pretend to be like everyone else narcissistic enough to declare themselves atheist.. the very name atheist implies you at least have doubts about ur own beliefs
So good! Thank you. I wished I had heard this years ago. Nonetheless, I am no longer living in an alternative lifestyle as God has transformed me and I am now a new creation in Christ. Praise the Lord!
The description of homosexuality as a lifestyle is a blatent oversimplification of human sexuality in general and homosexuality in particular. The purpose of this indoctrination of the collective societal psyche is paramount to the self validating delusion of heterosexuality possessing moral superiority. The reason that we never hear the term " heterosexual lifestyle" is because there is no need to catogorize heterosexuality with such descriptively inherent connotative oversimplification in order to subconciously justify contempt and hatred through subjective comparison. While such complex objectivity is certain to threaten the subjectively comparative sense of moral superiority of many, such is the cost of growth demanded by truth.
Why did God create gay people with the same passions for love as str8 people if he didnt want them to utilize those feelings? That just doesnt make sense. Im reading in John 1:1-3 and it reads he created everything.
I have always imagined myself being part of a world with no labels ,people “living”to the fullest,smiling faces everywhere ,everybody as one, it sounds like a fantasy but in my mind it’s real ,that thought it’s what keeps me going in life that thought which it’s been part of me since I was a kid and I have refused to give up on it.I don’t wanna go deep at all in my comment ,This is my advice people:CHILL ! CHILL !CHILL ! and let’s make this life experience much better everyday
Sean if more people were like you this world would be a much better place and more people would feel loved by God and have a life with him in the end love you and God bless you ❤️
"Change is possible." You got it right on point. "It(Bible) doesn't call homosexuals to become straight. It calls ALL OF US to leave our sin behind and become holy!" Because generally, Christians think that when a gay becomes a Christian, he becomes straight as well. Which aggravates the situation. There's a missing piece to all these "Gay" discussions. This one is so close to that piece. I commend Sean for this.
I've struggled deeply with same-sex attraction (while married to my husband)... it was a dark chapter in my marriage that involved a lot but one thing that pulled me out of it was turning to The Word and hearing what my pastor had said in love (not knowing about my struggle): "homosexuality is nothing more than an extreme love of self." It was when I realized that I wanted God's will in my life more than I wanted to escape marital trouble. He's been admonishing and edifying me as a wife ever since... but I now have an empathy for gay people that I never had before, EVEN THOUGH I firmly believe it's against God.
According to Sean being compassionate towards a gay person includes A. Speak with tenderness B. Do not allow gay jokes and comments C. Preach the Gospel: Change is Possible If this talk was a model for tenderness and compassion I'd rather prefer not to be dealt with tenderly. Well I don't mind gay jokes at all, laughing is good and sometimes one needs to laugh about oneself or about a bad joke. Change of my gay identity is something I tried for too long, it is simply not possible. It is just like hiding oneself from the truth for some time but looking into a mirror you know it will always be so. You cannot pray your identity away and if it was God's will I am sure he would listen to the prayers of such afflicted people. God accepts you the way you are. You are lovable just how you are right now. If it weren't that way he would not have sent his son Jesus to die for you even before you were born. I watched the video to see what practical advise Sean would offer on how to deal with gay Christians tenderly. I thought he would tell us something like "invite them to have good times together", "make friends with them", "ask them about their feelings of struggle and listen to them", "take them into your arms, give them a hug which lasts for longer than just 5 seconds; they might be missing it so much", "tell them you love them", "include them into your lives", "don't be afraid of them, they are people like you and me". But all I heard was how to tell a gay Christian that their inclinations are bad with "tender" words. Don't forget - a gay person can change. He/She just needs to pray intensely enough. God will help him/her. Should you attend your gay friend's marriage? - Of course you should not. Find some "kind" words to excuse yourself and distance yourself. Do you feel the question "How do you know you were made being gay?" be consoling? Is not the intent of such a question to fire the guilt in a person who already struggles with feelings of loneliness and shame? As long as your sexual identity is "in line with the Bible" you even don't have to ask yourself this question. But as a gay person you should? A heterosexual person who is looking for a mate and close companionship is just doing fine. A gay Christian trying to do the same is viewed as selfish, lustful, a sex monster (ok I am exaggerating a bit to make the point clear). But is such difference compatible with the principle of love? And sorry to say that, but both Romans 1 or the report about Sodom are not about gay people but describe heterosexual people committing serious immoral acts. Applying these texts to gay people hurts deeply. The Mosaic law on homosexuality may seem quite clear. But what if a man was raped by another man? According to the law he laid with a man and had to be put to death. Where is the morality behind? Why had there been no law on female homosexual acts in the Law? Were these OK? Should we not ask about the background of these passages and the historical context? The acts of homsexuality in 1. Corinthians and 1. Timothy refer to sexual exploitation of men by men. Oh, why does the text not talk about women? What is the reason behind it? Have you ever asked these questions? Sexual exploitation is not what a gay Christian is pursuing and has nothing to do with a loving relationship that a gay person wishes to have. How would you feel being condemned to life long loneliness by not being allowed to fall in love, even being afraid of falling in love with someone? How would you feel if your sexual desire is strong and you are told that you are not allowed to have any sex during your whole life - and please don't forget, masterbation is an act of lust, so please don't even touch yourself. God's love is toward all people among whom he does not make a distinction. I encourage everyone reading my lines to think about how you would like to be treated and just do it to anyone around you - not just gay people. Thanks for so doing, I love you. God's blessing for you Thomas
Watch Allen Parr interview on his channel The Beat with former lesbian leader of LGBT community and how she got saved. Doesn't mean she no longer has the attraction to women but theres a reason Jesus says "one must deny himself." And if it's too much for us then we can't follow Him. Eternity in Hell is worth no sin, lust, sex, gay or straight. And that's the truth
@@mcmc2383 God saves by grace through faith and not by works or by not doing certain things. This is the gospel. All of us need God's grace, no matter how big or small our sins may seem. Jesus went to the prostitutes of his day, but nowhere in the Bible do we find a word of condemnation. Instead he forgave them out of grace. I know Jesus sustains me in my current state and takes care of me. If by hell your refer to the lake of fire, then please note of the following: 1 God is a consuming fire. 2 The lake or better pond of fire burns with sulfur, reminding the reader of a refiner who melts precious metals (which looks like a pond) and adds sulfur to get unwanted impurities out of it. So the lake of fire symbolizes a refining procedure. Everything thrown into it is freed from sin. Death and Hades are thrown into it, because sin is their stick which will be removed thus making death ineffective. God and Jesus conquer their enemies or prevail over sin by love and not by destruction or torment. God bless
God doesn't love is because we are just fine how we are; He loves us because of who He is! God is love, He can be no other. We are all called to lay our lives down to Jesus. He did that on the cross for us, and it's our duty and our honour to do the same towards Him. That means our bodies, sexuality, thoughts, feelings, time, money, everything! I am celibate and it is not always easy, but it is right and has its reward as it is my obedience to the one who saves me 💖 We are all born I to sin and need to repent and align ourselves to God's will and plan for our lives.
@@lilmisspeace Thanks for your comment. I would be interested in your opinion on the following point. When God had created Adam he said "It is not good for man to be alone". He did so despite Adam had a relationship with God himself which surely was intimate. How would you explain that God in your opinion requires of gay Christians what he did not require of Adam? Being celibate is a gift but not for all and definitely it is not for all who are gay. Thanks, Thomas
wow the comments... I wonder people actually watched the video at all and are actually willing to listen. I hope most people do and only those who disagree are commenting.
@@fernandocuriel124 Read Ezekiel 23"20 She lusted after lovers with genitals as large as a donkey’s and emissions like those of a horse. Your Bible says a lot of crazy shit. Jesus never spoke a single word against gays. Paul supposedly wrote Romans. You must worship Paul.
Kit Cumbie Why do you worship many books In the New Testament written by Paul but ignore homosexuality In 1 Corinthians 6; 9-11. LOL! HAHA! You are truly a False Teacher, Scripture Revisionist, and a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
I love how people try to compare, -dont curse -dont eat pork -dont over-drink - be a good person to -stop being gay. Put it this way. If you are a straight man or straight women. Think about how it would feel if someone forced you to be with your same sex. You might become friends sure, but you will be miserable, hate your life and forever yearn to be with the opposite sex again. Same concept but reversed. It is wrong to guilt people into being with someone they dont want to be with.
That is a very twisted analogy. When a person, male, desires to have a wife, a female, he knows clystar clear, 100%, that he is having a desires ordained by God himself, because Gods ordained natural order, made it so that a penis should go inside of vagina. When a person, a male, begins to desire to have a sexual relationship with another guy, when he begin to have desires to stick his penis into this guys rectum or have his penis in your rectum, he knows, clystar clear, 100% that what he is desiring is not Gods natural order, it is a corruption, a perversion of order.
Niko Kapanen so, eventually... usually, men and women get old and a lot of times sex is no longer part of the equation. So then is it ok for two men to snuggle in bed and hold hands as companions and long as they don’t have sex??? If a gay man had his male part destroyed in some strange accident and couldn’t have sex ever again he would still want to bond with a man. His sexuality isn’t in his penis. Each person has a God given homing device telling them to whom to be attracted. It has nothing to do with the penis.
Just reference Revelation 21:8, not all about LGBTQ! WE ARE ALL SINNERS WHO NEED FORGIVENESS FOR OUR SINS. HOW DO WE GET THAT JESUS CHRIST HE IS THE CURE FOR SIN!! STOP CHOOSING THE FLESH OVER GOD!
Hi Seàn, thank you so much for teaching in a Godly, loving way a problem that myself and many other people in Australia are struggling with right now. A young N.R.L.player posted on his web-site from 1Corinthians ch.6 verse9. As a consequence there has been a huge public outcry accsung him of homophobia and of bigotry. He is also being charged for breaking the terms of his professional contract. As a result the matter has not been resolved and is now going to the high Court. Please pray for us in Australia, that we can learn torespond to such controversial issues in a loving ,wise and most importantly Godly way. Thank you, you are funny as well. God bless you, Dolores, mother/grandmother and great-grandmother.
I'm man who shared an unbroken, monogamous relationship with the man I called my husband for 45 years until his death seven years ago. A year later, I found salvation in the arms of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and have been covenantly celibate ever since. There is an abundance of love and compassion in Pastor McDowell's video presentation. And an abundance of truth. That is not to say that every point is entirely accurate. For example, homosexuality is not unnatural, because it is a phenomenon found in nearly 1,500 animal species, among which almost 750 form lifelong, same-sex pairings. See "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity," a book written by Dr. Bruce Bagemihl.
@@nikokapanen82 You and your religion is the only corrupt "part" of anything. In fact, ALL organised religion is corrupt. This is why religious fanatics are losing their minds on the progression of a SECULAR society in which we live. All I say, is Thank God .....
God did not stop talking after the Bible was written. The problem is we don’t have the faith to trust our ability to listen. Instead we demand a step by step rule book that tells us what a good Christian looks like. Basically a guide to teach us how to act Christian. Acting Christian and being Christian are opposite ends of the spectrum. Jesus’s greatest lesson was from the cross. He didn’t talk about homosexuality, he talked about forgiveness, specifically forgiving those that would become his murderers! While homosexuality may be the topic du jour, it’s forgiveness that needs to be addressed. When was the last time you heard a minister preach on how to completely forgive? You can’t love if you can’t forgive. Faking it till you make it doesn’t work. Speaking love and compassion doesn’t work if you don’t have the same sentiment in your heart. Real love, forgiveness, compassion, empathy is very hard to BE! This well meaning man is putting the cart before the horse. I believe this is why so many Churches are dying a slow death. Maybe this is a good thing. Maybe they will will re-emerge as places that teach how to be a Christian and not clubs for people who want an easy path to Christianity by pretending to be loving, compassionate, forgiving, etc.
So what do you say to gay people that have been in a loving monogamous relationship for years. Is their love for each other somehow less worthy because they are the same sex? So are they supposed to walk away from their partner? Gay couples are capable of being in loving/stable relationships!
i know of 124 sins that will get you dragged to hell when you die without confession and repentance, if any of these sins are in your life, when you die jesus does not have you!!! you belong to a demon and you get dragged to hell because satan hates us because we were created in the image of our father, satan wants all of to die and miss out on heaven, gods word is perfect and anyone who says differently is a liar and is of satan. satan told me when i was 3 years old that i liked men, but i have went to church my whole life and i have fallen many times and christ is faithful and just to forgive me if i confess and repent for all my sins.
What we need in the world is the real church back, one filled with genuine Christians who have surrendered there life genuinely to God because real and faithfull Christians understand this journey we are on is tough, because you will be asked to give up everything in your life for christ but it's always a choice you don't have to do this journey.
It can be hard to follow Jesus faithfully when so many voices and churches pump out teachings that are not orthodox or historically accurate. I got born again in a cult and my head was full of their twisted teachings, I saw scripture in a twisted way according to their teachings and went through deprogramming! Then I ended up in a church that God literally said had "doctrines of demons" & He had to deliver me from a demon in my body before I could see clearly and leave that congregation! I am now in College studying theology and realizing how faulty my view of scripture is because of all the years of faulty teachings...
Sean McDowell alluded to photographers, bakers and florists who refused to offer their services n connection with a same-sex marriage because of their Christian beliefs. As an example, Jack Phillips opened his bakery under the provisions of the business license he was issued. That license requires him to follow the laws of the State of Colorado, among which are protections against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. His license requires him to offer ALL of his services to ALL of the public, regardless of sexual orientation. He has chosen to ignore that stipulation. So now he has four choices: 1) Comply with the law; 2) Decline to bake wedding cakes for anyone; 3) Close his business; 4) Move his business to a state that does not have nondiscrimination laws . Many states would allow him to discriminate against LGBT folk, for any reason at all.
@Paul Weidig He has chosen #2. His website still states this... "Masterpiece Cakeshop is not currently accepting requests to create custom wedding cakes. Please check back in the future." There are even more laws in place in his state and he knows he got off easy.
How can you force a person, who is a follower of Christ to make a cake which specifically displays homosexual behavior? That would violate his rights to practise his faith.
I am so glad to see these things being addressed. Thank you. If the gay community is constantly told they will go to hell and are an abomination how does that help them to find God? When God says I handed them over into their sin. Now taking any other sin doesn't he do the same? The adulterers.. the fornicaters, the idolatrous.. the mammon hungry, (lovers of money), truth is the heart can be full of all sorts of wickedness.. unnecessary violence, hatred, drunkenness, murder, slander, gossip, abuse, covetousness and theft.. vanity, lovers of self over others... just to name a few God warns about all of these things.. God also said through Jesus, he hates the religious attitudes.. those who cast burdens upon others that they themselves cannot keep.. It's a very good understanding that unless a person knows what it's like to be attracted to the same sex.. how can they honestly understand the issues that go with that. I often wondered why my own dad had said he was more upset I went to a Catholic church than the Mardi gras one year. Both times with the same person.. Ive come to the conclusion that while one is offensive to the church and faith I grew up under.. at least they were being honest about what their life and choices "or sin before God's eyes" than many within the church who hide and lie and cannot be honest about their lives.. not even acknowledging the "sin" within their own while they still cast unfair judgements upon others. I'm not saying homosexuality is biblically sound nor should there be homosexuality within those claiming Gods name.. but those who are not living under biblical lifestyle.. are not held to that same bar so to speak. What about all those who may have had homosexual dreams and panicked... Too scared to speak it out for fear of what others think.. knowing themselves to not be gay or lesbian and yet possibly being aroused by the dream? I've had this said to me before and I laughed and said your not lesbian for having a dream.. I wasn't ashamed of that person.. at all. I was grateful they trusted me enough to be honest because I don't enjoy seeing people struggle unecessarily. I have asked men before would you consider yourself bisexual? Some said yes and I felt others get angered by such a suggestion. If we are not allowed to ask or confront things.. then how do we know who we are dealing with and then what possible issues may arise from that? That's why I had said I found a man who had sexually explored himself attractive because he wasn't threatened to even try and consider.. but it doesn't make them gay or bi sexual.. but rather can have more understanding and compassion for those who have been struggling. Many find a genuine freedom and sigh of relief kind of thing because oh I'm free to actually speak? Yep.. you are. So long as honest with me we have no issues. So long as your not trying to force or endanger my life.. all is good. So I am so happy to see these things being addressed within the churches. Much like when the religious came about adultery and Jesus said I tell you if you have even looked upon a woman with lust in your heart you are just as guilty. Why? He knew their inner hearts and all that went through their minds.. yet they judged those who did in the physical what they did in private thought. Yet saw themselves as being better than those who had physically partaken. Every time he uses the word hypocrite! To the religious it's overwhelmingly freeing because he was defending those who were being shamed by those who were inwardly or secretly their equal in sin. For that reason many owe me an apology.
He is cute and i could listen to him all day. Been through reparitive therapy but it doesn't help. Acceptance of homosexual feelings does. As you get older you realise you don't have to act on those feelings.
The problem is with people who call a sin "an identity", the identity of Christians is in Christ not in their sins, and they definitely are not PROUD of their sin, whatever it is.
@@peteralleyman1388 You took it out of context like the rainbow totalitarian party people usually do. You can't love money more than Christ, and you have to work and make a profit to be able to share. It is the priority that matters. As far as the sin of identity, the scripture is very clear about it. You either get it or you are lying to yourself calling Christ a liar as well.
I have a suggestion to get the word out at Calvary for the meeting of gay men....don't separate the materials or give only to certain groups/genders but everyone. That way they don't feel singled out or misunderstood. Just a thought. God bless. Awesome things you're doing to this underserved group of future believers!
If idolatry is the greatest sin then why not preach on that instead of homosexuality? Oh wait, because then you'd have to preach against yourself and your audience and that might risk offending them and losing their donations.
To the guy with the goatee, we've heard this all before from people like John Paulk, Alan Chambers, and Michael Johnston. And every one of them now tell a completely different story. Here's a good article from probably the most well known ex-gay, now ex-ex-gay. www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/life-as-ex-ex-gay-paulk-108090.html#.VKRXEyvF98E
Well i think a person being true to himself/herself being attracted to same sex gender means it's like confessing their sin.. Because if you did not admit it.. It will struggle you the whole life..so let's us respect a person being true to his/her indifference and help his/her get through it.. We can never fully understand a sistuation until we experience it but of course heterosexual will never will
To be fair, it appears the word used in 1Corinthians 6 is effeminate or malakoi not homosexuality. Effeminate or malakoi men were those who were "soft" extravagant, frivolous, self-serving, showy, flaunting, and weak in character. Biblical times didn't even have homosexuality in their vocabulary.
so im bisexual. and i dont believe that i nor anyone else should be judged based on who they love. I respect you for this video, but christians are supposed to treat others how they would want to be treated, and treat others like God would treat them. In leviticus, it talks about sodomy as in rape, not a willingness act. I fully believe that if you choose to be homosexual & have sex or even be attracted to the same sex, you should be treated with the same respect as if you were the love the opposite.
You can of course how some might consider your point mildly hypocritical, mentioning if you change your thoughts on something you'll lose your job, and after reading everything on both sides you haven't changed at all.
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." Now why is it that the first part of the verse is quoted and apparently still applies but the second part is stealthily edited out and not discussed? Did God change his mind on the murdering gays part, but is still creeped out by gay sex? Or is it just that Christians did and are?
Hi Stephan Marcus, Stephan I am Pastor Eric and your questions were forwarded to me to answer on behalf of Calvary Church. Sir I will try to do my best to understand your questions and respond. Your first question is highlighting what was presented in the reading of the Old Testament passage, that a part of it, you say the second part was “stealthily” left out, you ask, “Now why is it that the first part of the verse is quoted and apparently still applies but the second part is “stealthily” edited out and not discussed? I hope I can sufficiently answer your inquiries.
Stephen you are correct in your observation yet understand that the second is not edited out, but rather it is purposely left out and presented this way reflecting what we know in New Testament theology reveals is our responsibility concerning such sin, death by stoning is not and endorsed practice or sentence to be carried out (See John 8:5), rather such sin is dealt with in grace in the New Testament. The New Testament reflects what is now as you know “the age of grace” where we are now no longer under law but under grace (Romans 6:14). The Old Testament and the text you are quoting from, I believe is Leviticus 20:13, this is the Law presented to the Jews during this time. (The Law was for the Jews see Leviticus 26:46, thus the response from Jesus in John 8:5, ‘you without sin cast the first stone...’ great grace is given). Therefore the church does not condone, or practice stoning homosexuals, and others who are guilty of sexual sins (see Leviticus 18). Rather the church is instructed, and instructs that we should treat all men with grace, love, compassion, empathy, and mercy. (see also 1 Corinthians 6:11; Exodus 34:6-7; Ephesians 2:4-5; Proverbs 12:10...) The same compassion, love, empathy, and mercy we ourselves have received from God through Jesus Christ, because we are, were all such sinners deserving of death and separated from God. Yet we are not instructed to “tolerate” sin, sexual sin in the church, (Jesus instructed, “...Go and sin no more...”)therefore we do not embrace and allow the ongoing practice of homosexuality in the church (see 1 Corinthians 5). Understand that Jesus Christ came to fulfill all Old Testament prophecies (Matthew 5:17-18; Romans 10:4) and establishes the our New Testament mandates, Jesus came to fulfill all that was written in the Law and the Prophets. All of it is pointing to Him. We accept Him not as just Savior, but also Lord, in saying that, we are choosing to live in obedience to Him as Lord. Therefore in highlighting this it is important to note then God does not change His mind. Furthermore understand God’s attitude towards homosexuality, and other sexual sin does not change it is still an abomination and all is treated the same. Malachi 3:6 declares, “I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.” Similarly, James 1:17 tells us, “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.” Numbers 23:19 is clear: “God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?” Based on these verses, no, God does not change. God is unchanging and unchangeable. He is also all-wise. So He cannot change His mind. Stephan, you ask, “Did God change his mind on the “murdering” gays...? Stephan, first understand that God does not “murder,” but rather He gives just judgment, punishment, for wickedness rebellion and sin, i.e. disobedience to His commandments (see Genesis 2:17) “Death” is the just judgment/punishment for disobedience to God’s Laws as we see throughout the Old Testament. See book By Sean McDowell, “Is God Just a Human Invention.” We cannot make God in our own image, and demand of Him a change in His moral attitude and or character or His judgments and demands i.e. commandments to abstain from certain sins and practices. Understand this all begins to point to the Holiness of God, 1 Samuel 2:2 “There is none holy like the Lord; there is none besides You; there is no rock like our God. 1 Peter 1:15-16 “But as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” You ask, “Did God change His mind about homosexuality...?” (‘In that we are not stoned to death for homosexuality...?’) No, Steven He didn’t but because we are no longer under Law but under grace, grace requires us to make a strong loving appeal to all (and homosexuals) who sin against God to turn to Him to find forgiveness, healing, and a living relationship with the living God and the hope of eternal life. (See also James 5:20; Romans 10:8-10) See from this New Testament text if you can discern if God if has changed His mind concerning homosexuality. Romans 1:18-27 and if that is not clear enough read, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Please note that it is all who practice lawlessness, all the sexually immoral,( All sexual deviation is sin- Heterosexual and Homosexual) and furthermore thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers and or cheaters... all these will not inherit the kingdom of God all face the same death and the same separation from God. Here are two messages Pastor Skip taught on homosexuality it is a balanced teaching and what the Christian response should be along side of Sean McDowell’s teaching here at Calvary Church. This is what Christians are and should be taught on the matter. Part One: www.calvaryabq.org/teachings_view.asp?ServiceID=3159 Part Two: www.calvaryabq.org/teachings_view.asp?ServiceID=3199 Stephan, thank you so much for your great questions and for allowing us to answer and to be a resource for you on this matter. I pray I was able to answer your questions clearly. Please let me know if you have any further questions. In His great love and service, Eric P. Lamb Pastor: Eric Lamb
The second part of that verse is why there is a Gay Rights movement. History has shown society has taken that verse too literally and have institutionalized and executed homosexuals for just having the attraction at best. Criminalization of homosexuality got so severely out of control it forced people to fight back. The modern day LGBT community views this verse as a barbaric punishment.
@@MrKit9 My comment was written from an observational perspective. I am completely disgusted with how Christians gloss over that part of the verse not realizing it is one of the big reasons gay people feel a sense of suffering.
WE have been here since the Dawn of Time! WE pre-date ALL religious sects! WE are in EVERY family! OUR contributions to Humanity are incalculable! WE are not going ANYwhere!
I had a local Church secretary call my lady and I an abomination because we have a family together and we're not legally married so I asked her I said ma'am isn't that God's place to judge us.
@@nrthnmonkey3308 wrong. Matthew 19:3 ¶ The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause? 4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, 5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. 1 corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
The verse he is referring to in 1 Cor 6:9 uses the Greek word. Arsenokoitai. His bible translates this word as homosexual but the word homosexual wasn’t inserted until the 19th century. Although the word in English Bibles is interpreted as referring to homosexuals, we can be fairly certain that this is not the meaning that Paul wanted to convey. If he had, he would have used the word "paiderasste." That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual activity between males. We can conclude that he probably meant something different than people who engaged in male-male adult sexual behavior. Early interpreters said “abusers of mankind” to translate arsenokoital others interpreted this Greek word as masterbators. It’s a unique word only used by Paul and interpreters only speculate as to the meaning.
Kit Cumbie I can tell you are not a Christian. Jesus clearly addressed sexuality when a man and woman leave their father and mother to be joined together. Jesus is also God and it’s spoken about in Leviticus and also in 1 Corinthians and throughout the bible homosexual Relationship is not supported and condemned as sin. There is hope for all caught in this. Jesus can make us new and died for our FREEDOM from all sin! Give your life to Him
Due to not wanting to " cast my pearls before swine" many religious folks would have a fit if they knew the extent of this gay mans in depth spiritual experiences. Wow.
Apostle Paul is a human like us, and his writings inspire us but it is also subject for interpretation at that time of his writing. I believe Jesus Christ more than apostle Paul.
Louie Adam BE AWARE that Paul also wrote half of all the books that make up the modern New Testament we have today. Always know that Cafeteria Christianity is much worst than strict fundamentalist Christianity. Liberal & mainstream churches are actually declining rapidly more than conservative evangelical churches. Of course there’s going to be some exceptions but that doesn’t change the whole reality.
But also Paul did not said homosexuality is a sin or kind of like that. As I read is closer to that you should not just try out same-sex "experience" just because of amusement or desire and curiosity, because it is such bad as adultery.
The think about going to a marriage ceremony is that the witnesses are witnesses in a legal/spiritual sense, which is why the phrase about "if anyone knows why this shouldn't happen" has traditionally been used. I know that if I attend a wedding, just by my presence I am making a legal/spiritual statement of agreement to the marriage. Over my life I have noticed that there are hetero weddings I don't agree with for one reason or another. I don't go to those. Others that I believe I want to agree with I do attend as a statement of that agreement.
What about breaking the Sabbath law in the Ten Commandments? Not many Christians heeding that (blessed and sanctified by God) but they make the "CHOICE" to venerate "Sun"-day instead, which is nowhere commanded by God or Jesus in Scripture. Christians say homosexuality is a " CHOICE" but I see many Christians making many "CHOICES" too that break GOD'S COMMANDMENTS AND LAWS and do not line up with the Word of God. Some black kettles out there preaching to the pots with huge wooden planks obscuring their view. This "teacher" has a veneer of compassion, yet pounds the underlying anti-gay theology.
75th birthday - this annual veneration was not recorded as being a practice of the early Church. The only "birth"-days in the Bible were celebrated by self-seeking despots like Pharoah and Herod. It's also a huge financial pressure to satisfy the expectations of friends and relatives. Maybe that's why Jesus never commanded anyone to celebrate His birth or even His resurrection on special annual 'holy days' but rather only to remember His atoning death.
Are there any videos of someone like Sean McDowell giving a discussion like this to an LGBT audience? I feel like a very crucial issue was not addressed in regards to homosexuality in sermons like these to a church group.
Not just any church group, but one lead by a man who is obviously insecure about his heterosexual privilege, the disgustingly sexist, and condescending bigot, spiritual extortionist Skip Heitzig... who says that if everyone doesn't do as Skip says, God is not above ordering up genocide. (See his sermon on Jonah.)
@@Lil08103Sean does not address why these kind of relationships are persued in the first place. If he gave this sermon to an LGBT audience, it will seem like he is assuming they are "choosing" to be deviant with God. He never tries to understand why a "biblically endorsed" union would not work for them.
While I'm glad to hear Christians uphold compassion as an answer to this question of innate sexuality, there is still some ways to go for the religious to step past the concept of 'sin' and to alleviate this quasi-condescending schizophrenia of hating the 'sin' and loving the 'sinner'. Don't get me wrong, I will take any kind of compassion/inclusion/kindness over hate/rejection/violence. As someone who the religious would call atheist _(I'm an astampcollector too btw... much maligned in the stamp-collector circles!)_ I believe we humans are in the trailing end of a long journey out of pre-scientific, superstitious social models which include both extinct _(Zeus anybody?)_ and extant religions. We are growing as a planet where every day the lines that currently divide us are fading _(of course, we are pretty ingenious at creating new ones... so it is not all blue-sky!)_ and we may be about 5 to 10 generations (75 to 200 years) away from dumping this idea of 'sin' entirely out of our vocabulary. In the meantime, we journey together as a species and there's absolutely nothing wrong in cherry-picking, gerry-rigging and interpreting 'scripture' toward kindness while rejecting outdated bronze-age morality carried to this age wrapped up in theological 'degrees of sin' as this speaker suggests. Yes, compassion and non-judgemental acceptance is key to getting to that state of recognizing the 'different'ness among us while still according equality to all humans - regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation. Walking on the eggshells of scripture interpretation is a fading project in civilization as more and more social issues can be addressed by maintaining a secular heuristic of _"increasing well-being and reducing harm for self and others"_ rather than finding, deciphering and twisting "scripture" to fit this same secular model.
To simplify your view, just view sin as rebellion as that is what it is. Rebellion against what? God’s Instated Law. So no, there *is* something wrong with cherry-picking scripture in order to interpret what *you* find to be kind & loving in this day-and-age rather than accepting it as it stands. That God has instated His Will as to what He has designed and how it should operate, and anything that deviates from said standard is a product of the Fall, a product of the introduction of rebellion within Creation. So yours or anyones attempt to be more “inclusive” of such topics is actually the acceptance of rebellion back into the conversation when Christ’s goal is the finality of said rebellion/disorder.
did find some points to fight against "Talibanic "Christians" but the message given here does not give enough push back to them in IMO and still handles the "oppressive" with kid gloves just according to my taste. but did find enough in your vid to make my arguments stronger and make a spirited defense against some who use Christianity as an excuse to practice bigotry that makes them feel better......one dose not have to water down truth to call out wrong on a side that thinks they are in the right wholly....
The problem is that Christianity continues to label homosexuality as a sin. As a straight ally with homosexual family members, I refuse to be talked down to like this. You claim to know things you couldn’t possibly know.
I wish there were someone who asked the question regarding the acceptance of slavery in the bible and if the acceptance then is the same now? If there is a discrepancy, that means that a mandate of biblical times has been abandoned and therefore causes conflict where following all mandates is concerned. This is something that people of color, especially black people of color who have same sex attraction question.
The Bible also gives historical context. These things were prevalent in history and the ones that were slaves were from whatever nation that had been conquered in battle. You might note that is was mainly middle eastern and Now European nations as well as Scandinavia. Remember people has horses and walked so no mass transit or vehicles. Also Africa was tribal and took warring tribe members as slaves. So in a fallen world GODS Devine plan is being carried out to permanently subdue and destroy sin.
I think a video should be made entitled Heterosexuality: compassion and clarity or Christianity: compassion and clarity to warn gay people about the dangers/misconceptions of both. After 40 years in Christianity I now realise a gay person will never find peace in the Church.
Churches need to start classes for their members on how to rightly treat homosexuals. Be you straight, gay, bi or sleep around, until we are born again, we are all hell bound. We are no better or worse than them. Liars go to hell. Gossiping is a HUGE sin. Now you can be full of hate to them, judge and condemn them but I am going to try to lead them to salvation and then let God do what He does and regenerate that person. We can't save anybody but we know who can. You are His ambassador and on that day, you will be judged on how you treat others. Jesus never said love your enemies unless...no ifs ands or buts. God bless. Your cross is tough to bear too.
Not all sins are equal. Judas suffers greater condemnation than Pilot. The only way that all sins are considered equal is that the smallest sin will force the most perfect person to come short of the glory of God.
And therefore, because all sins are not equal ,does this mean that greater sins are worthy of greater condemnation? Like, leviticus calling for homosexuals and disobedient children to be killed?
Homosexuality - like heterosexuality and bisexuality - is a state, condition or orientation. As such,it is morally neutral. The words homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality never appear in the Bible because they were coined in 1892 by Charles Gilbert Chaddock in a translation of Richard von Krafft-Ebing's study on sexual practices . And this is the point: Even if one agrees that the Biblical descriptions of carnality do in fact correlate to our present-day understanding through the use of those terms, nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality itself condemned - only its practice. Nowhere in the Bible is heterosexuality itself condemned - only its practice outside of Biblical marriage. Failure to distinguish clearly between the state of homosexuality and its acts is sloppy thinking at best and homophobic at worst.
OMG...thank you. I'm a 62 year old same sex attracted celibate man whose self-loathing has destroyed my life....and ripped my heart apart.... I spent 30 years in Exodus International trying to change my orientation. Nothing. Ever. Changed. For. Me. Or. For. Anyone. I. Knew. In. The. Program.....UGH....
@@briancarr9503 hi there go to stevephn black first stone ministries and there are 1200 that were in the program and they kept records there is a you tube video of this ' freedom realized with slides" I think you will find interesting
ACTUALLY....NOT all sins are Equal! Even in Matt 23:14 Jesus said..."you will receive the GREATER condemnation". Even as Human beings we agree killing someone is worse than smacking someone in the face. I get that Sin is sin to God..it's all crap. But it's not all the same.
Gay people have always existed, and will always exist. People are born gay. Straight people and people on the cusp of same-sex attraction will tell you something different; because they cannot, nor ever will be able to understand, as it does not truly affect them. Think about it.... only straight people say that people were not born gay (same-sex attraction is not the same as being homosexual). Millions of people today & throughout history said they were born gay..... they have always remembered being gay from their first memories This is proof enough that God made them gay. 1. God exists 2. People are born gay because they say they are born gay. Conclusion: God made gay people. Just as He created roses, daisies, & carnations, He also created black, white, Hispanic, gay, straight, male, & female people.
@Thor Odinson You are terribly closed minded.. or perhaps you are closeted. It's a total waste of time & energy trying to reason with someone like you. Goodbye.
Just a bit of correction: Boystown is not a city. It's a neighborhood. (I lived there for a few years.) I am just a few minutes in. But I will say this. I'm already worried. Why is it that the sin of homosexuality is the only sexual sin that we are constantly pressured to "understand"? Do we have to "understand" fornication? Do we have to "understand" adultery? Part of the problem is because this is the only area of life where people use their sin as the entire identity! And the church has given in with terms like "sexual orientation" and that people "are homosexual" - as though it's something you simply ARE and you're born that way and that's that. We cannot give in to the world's lies on this point. I hope this talk doesn't go that route.
2 verses that have application to people dealing with this issue personally, but are generally overlooked; the first being I Corinthians 10:13 (KJV), "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." What you're dealing with is "common to man." You're not weird (dare I say queer) in this regard. "...there is no new thing under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9). God is faithful and will help you get through it so that "ye may be able to bear it." It may be your cross to bear. The other is II Corinthians 12:7-10 where Paul, describing his particular problem in verse 7, goes on to say in verse 8, "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me." Who, as a sincere Christian dealing with same sex attraction, hasn't described agonizing in prayer begging God to take this away, to "Pray Away The Gay" as they say, without success? What was God's answer? Verse 9: "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." Again, God is faithful, and you can get through it in His strength, not yours, to His honor and glory.
How would you feel and react if being gay was the "normal" sexual identity and you were told that "God's grace is sufficient for you"? Would you feel being handled tenderly and with compassion? A lot of gay people were not able to bear such pressure and have comitted suicide. This is not the fruit of their being gay but rather of people who offer scriptures but don't care about how a person feels. Please deal with others as you would like to be dealt with. Thanks brother.
Lastly, the combination of religion and government is known as Theocracy. I'll give you a hint-It doesnt work. For more info simply google clerical faschism and the iranian revolution.
The Bible also said that Jesus was tempted in every way such as us (but without sin). I guess the devil would only tempt Him with heterosexual sins so as not to offend the Christians.
This is for everyone giving a hate comment. GROW Up! We all have rights to our opinion and it's true we shouldn't treat people like dirt just because how the act, look of etc. most of y'all are coming to attack this man just because you don't understand it. This is meant for everyone but for the ones who will listen. When you die and meet god he's gonna ask you why did you this and why didn't you listen? Your gonna be to scared to answer. I'm not trying to pick s fight with any of y'all but you need to remember what your parents told you," If you don't have anything nice to SAY( comment) THEN DONT SAY IT AT ALL!"
Victor is a nice guy :D Just sayin that an kinda ex-otaku but anime fan is around here learning from Japanese people christians and homosexuals. To be right, you can learn from everyone even some one is not right. Just listen... and you learn :)
I'm waiting to see the first christian apologist make a one hour video on selling your belongings and give the money to the poor. That's what jesus demanded from his followers. While he never ever even mentioned homosexuality.
To Skip's folks, please go to Voddie Baucham, "We must Fight" , it will give you a better view of our battle plans? Oh, Osteen is into some practices right out of black magic, you would have had to study the rites to know how deep Osteen is into teachings Jesus never taught. 💡777🎸
Homosexuality - like heterosexuality and bisexuality - is a state, condition or orientation. As such, they are morally neutral. The words homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality never appear in the Bible because they were coined in 1892 by Charles Gilbert Chaddock in a translation of Richard von Krafft-Ebing's study on sexual practices. And this is the point: Even if one agrees that the Biblical descriptions of carnality do in fact correlate to our present-day understanding through the use of those terms, nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality itself condemned - only its practice. Nowhere in the Bible is heterosexuality itself condemned - only its practice outside of Biblical marriage. Failure to distinguish clearly between the state of homosexuality and its acts is sloppy thinking at best and homophobic at worst.
So...............this guy wouldn't go to a marriage ceremony if the two people were both divorced..... What if the bride is not a virgin? The bible says such a woman must be stoned to death..... Sigh..................
I'm pretty sure that stoning those were in Leviticus or Deuteronomy. If you don't know, most those laws don't apply to Christians since Christ has fulfilled the Old Covenant and has brought the New.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS !!!! It is so refreshing to hear TRUTH @ 100% and not sugar-coating it to keep from offending people in the world. I know it is hard for a homosexual to turn against their own fleshly desires and turn to GOD seeking to please HIM only... I can't imagine how hard that would be to deal with in this world where SEX is plastered in your face 24/7! But if GOD says it is wrong and we shouldn't do it.....thats it. No it isn't "fair" to have to deal with things daily that restricts us. It isn't fair for a person to have desires for alcohol and it be wrong. It isn't 'fair' for a person to have a sexual addiction and premarital sex be wrong. And I'm sure that there are people in the world that thinks it isn't "fair" for pedophillia to be wrong either. Most of us would never argue with that one.....but here recently, people are actually "standing up for the rights" of pedophiles!!!! People....WAKE UP! Regardless, GOD knows more than we could ever possibly comprehend. If HE says that it is wrong, it is to help us - NOT to harm us.
How do we know the Bible is actually the true Word of God, and not just a book? Many religions have holy books, which claim to represent the Truth. Why is the Bible the only one that is correct?
Hello @uapuat! And thank you for watching our TH-cam channel! While this is part of a massive ongoing debate here is a video with Pastor Skip interviewing Dr. Warwick Montgomery an expert on the topic! Hope this helps! th-cam.com/video/UBtwVyybX0s/w-d-xo.html - Miguel R. Calvary Online Community Coordinator.
Tommy, You are approaching this all wrong. The call to Christianity isn’t a call to “be gay” and obey restrictive rules, it’s a call to be something much more. We live in a culture where, at first this seems insensitive, so please let me explain what I mean by this. We, in our western culture, define ourselves by our desires. It’s not unusual for someone to base their entire identity in a career, a marriage, a family, their possessions, or their sexual orientation. Christianity is a call to die to an old identity, whatever it is, and take up an entirely different one. God defines us by our design. If your identity is first and foremost that you are a child of God designed to have the wisdom of prophet, humility of a priest, and boldness of a king, then you will operate how you were designed to operate, which is to “Love the Lord your God will ALL your heart (emotional), soul (obedience), mind (logically), and strength (physically), and to love your neighbor equally,” which means to treat all people with an infinite value as children of God as well, not defining any person by their desires, but rather by their design. This is because humans are worth more than a list of desires. So, I suppose your question is a category mistake. You can be whatever you want, but Christ would rather you be more than what you want to be. Christ would rather you be His bride, His friend, and His servant. You can’t be your own king and have Him as yours. Hope this helps. Thank you, Sean Kerwin | Community Outreach Pastor CALVARY CHURCH
@@CalvaryABQ, thanks for your reply. I have spent the last 21 years in active church ministry (now retired early due to significant health concerns). I do disagree with those that think that Mr. McDowell is preaching hate. But I believe the focus is wrong. You see, I am gay and I do attend a progressive LGBT church that preaches love and acceptance for our fellow man. I'm not afraid of rejection. What I'm afraid of is those that continually blast minority people, whether those of color, race or those who identify as gay, bi-sexual, transgender or lesbian or anything that does fit the typical mold of who we want people to be. I hear too often that I have to love a woman, even though I have never been attracted to women. I would basically have to lie to a woman when saying I love when that isn't the truth. You see the problem here? I can't love my partner of 11 years because the church sees it as a unfit relationship. Regardless of the fact that my partner and I have been together since high school and have never cheated on each other and have been faithful to one another and our church, the conservative church still calls me a sinner that is going to hell and it's based on who I love and who's in my life. So with that, I say confidently, no... Being gay is not a sin. The Bible never claims it is. Let me give you a few points. 1) In the story that Romans 1 tells, Paul insists that humanity is “without excuse” (v. 20) since “what can be known about God is plain to them” (v. 19). He could not make this statement if he believed that we were born with a “fallen nature” that makes us unable to see and worship God. Rather, we are corrupted by being born into a world that has “exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles” (v. 23), i.e. a world awash in a sea of idolatry. Idolatry means to “worship and serve creation rather than the Creator” (v. 25), whether our idols are actual physical statues or abstractions like money, success, patriotism, political correctness, etc. It is the idolatry of our world that prevents us from finding our joy in the beauty and comfort of God. Without the spiritual security of that divine foundation, we are handed over to “degrading passions” (v. 26). Paul uses the visceral image of the orgy practices of Roman society to capture the degrading passions to which humanity resorts when trapped in a world of idolatry. These orgy practices include, but are not limited to, same-gendered sex. The key question is whether the same-gendered aspect of the orgy practices is itself the problem or if it’s the whole thing which includes adultery, promiscuity, etc. The basic truth captured by Romans 1 is the way that our desires occur in a skewed frame of reference because of the omnipresence of idolatry. This is particularly true in a world where capitalism has manipulated us from birth to want what we don’t naturally want so that somebody can make money off of us. We’ve been socialized to think of identity in consumerist terms. If I buy this music, this fashion, this brand of beer, that defines who I am as a person. This skewed frame of reference for desire is also true about our sexual socialization. Social factors like the widespread use of sex in marketing over the past several decades and the rise of the internet porn industry has left people in our culture with a very confused and unnatural sense of sexuality. When sex becomes just another consumable object like food, then it loses its power as a means of establishing spiritual intimacy between two people. Now, sexual traditionalists would argue at this point that LGBT identity is just a fad created by the market, an unnatural desire formed by our skewed frame of reference. Plenty of scientific research suggests this is not the case. Ultimately, I take the stance that I cannot ever know and should not speculate whether someone else’s sexual identity is authentically intrinsic or an imposed socialization. I choose to respect what people say about themselves rather than rejecting any professed identity that makes my world too complicated. So is LGBT sexuality “against nature”? Thankfully Paul provides us with a litmus test to discern what are degrading passions like those described in Romans 1:26-27, which brings me to the second major point.
2) Sin is evil because of corruption not inconformity What’s wrong with “unnatural” desires? Is it simply that God has an arbitrary way he likes to see things done, and it’s a test of our loyalty whether we’re willing to submit? Many evangelical Christians would say that sin is sin because it violates “God’s design.” But that’s not the argument we see in Romans 1. What happens to the people who pursue degrading passions with their bodies is that they are “filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice” (v. 29). They are “full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness.” They are “gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventers of evil, rebellious toward parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless” (v. 30). These toxic character qualities bubble up quickly in a community built around unhealthy, addictive behaviors like promiscuous sex and drug use. Paul gives us a very clear litmus test for whether someone’s sexuality is a degrading passion or not. If it’s a degrading passion, they will be filled with “every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice,” and every other toxic character quality in verses 29-31. That’s what happens to the community that Paul is talking about in Romans 1. The reason degrading passions are degrading is not because of their inconformity to an established norm, but because they corrupt our hearts and drag us into deeper levels of sin.
If you want to claim that Paul is talking about LGBT people in verses 26-27, then you have to be willing to say that all LGBT people exhibit the toxic character qualities in verses 29-31. Anti-gay Christian scholar Robert Gagnon is comfortable making this claim. In his reading of Romans 1, he insists that same-sex attraction itself is sinful, because it’s a result of the idolatry at the beginning of the cascade of sin. So Gagnon would say that you cannot be acceptable as a celibate LGBT Christian; you must renounce your LGBT identity altogether. Indeed, Gagnon’s position is the one that must be taken if verses 26-27 are about LGBT identity itself rather than being about sex orgies. The idea that LGBT Christians are okay as long as they’re celibate is a biblically unjustifiable compromise made by evangelicals when it became untenable to tell LGBT people to “pray away the gay.” Gagnon emphatically rejects this compromise. However, since I’ve met too many LGBT people, including myself, who are plainly not filled with wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice, I have concluded that Paul is not condemning LGBT identity itself in Romans 1. When I was filled with wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice, it was an LGBT church that nurtured me back to health. Spiritual toxicity can arise in the LGBT community just like any other community. But I’ve met far too many holy LGBT people to conclude that being LGBT makes you toxic.
I do hope my comments would open up a very serious discussion about LGBT people in the church and what we call sin. To just emphatically say someone is sinning and doesn't belong a part of the church doesn't show the true love that Jesus shares for each of us. Jesus loves everyone. He didn't add anything else when he said to love your neighbor. With that.... Thanks for your time.
See this is the problem that I have with this. How would any of our lives change if we had deep deep attractions to Anison homosexuality isn’t singled out. Every sin that we have a deep desire, for we lost after our we have concupiscence for can change our lives drastically. The woke generation has made homosexuality special. It is not. It is sin.
He quotes everyone but Jesus. Why? Because Jesus never spoke out against this. Christianity is supposed to revolve around Jesus, so wouldn't his words be more important than Paul's? If it were that important, wouldn't Jesus himself have weighed in on the issue?
if every sermon needed to quote jesus, we'd never look at over half of the bible, especially the old testament. that would be dangerous. there's a lot jesus wasn't recorded discussing but i wouldn't take that to mean it isn't important (though he did discuss inequality a lot more than most churches and i think that matters a lot). jesus said he came to fulfill the law, not to replace it (matthew 5:17) so many things he didnt have to say b/c they had already been established. that includes God's idea of sexual purity.
@@pastorbri jesus did not mention every other sexual sin. that is simply untrue. further, i made no specific statements about homosexuality. i responded to your assertion that all sermons should focus on quotes from jesus. that's strange since there is an entire bible from which ministers MUST preach.
You're lucky to own a church. Not even Jesus has one of those (at least since Gentile Christians changed the word "church" ["KEHILAH" in Hebrew, meaning "CONGREGATION"] from being a group of people into a building). The Hebrew word for "MEETING HOUSE" is "BEIT KNESSET" (or "SINAGOGA" in Greek), but because Jews met in MEETING HOUSES ("BEITEI KNESSET") and translated via Greek into English as "SYNAGOGUE" the word has been erroneously only apllied to Jews, when it is just a general term for any group of people. Thus the Gentile Church in their theological anti-Semitism wanting to distance themselves from anything that may be viewed as being "Jewish" (erroneously) started to use the word "church" ("KEHILAH"/"CONGREGATION") to describe their "MEETING HOUSES" ("SYNAGOGUES") even though there is no Biblical concept.
You know, I was getting ready to have a conversation with you. You started off nice, I was following you, but then you felt the need to curse and be obscene so, I'm not talking to you. Have a nice day.
I'm not gay, but as you can tell by by my name I'm definitely not Christian. Strangely my family is packed with intuition and prophecy. One thing not mentioned is prophecy is not only forward but backwards and hold on, sideways. The bible version that has been the gold standard for this Evangelical movement. King James came on the scene after so much blood of subjects being killed over being Catholic? So King James is on a boat and a violent storms appears and he is pissed. Once he is safely on land he commands one line to be added, do not allow a witch to live. that one line was a death sentence for over a million women. Women that had been midwives, women that used herbs to heal or sadly women who owned land and a greedy person wanted that land. Everything I wrote is true, look it up. One little change in the bible, millions of women died. Proof the bible you read has been changed. Who is to say other parts haven't been changed? Or maybe you still believe a group if women were able to command a storm? Think and research! Peace and very glad this speaker is asking for the hate to stop.
It is important for people to believe that homosexuality is chosen in order to subconciously justify contempt and hatred through subjective comparison. This is the larger conversation that is not being had.
I think one of my questions for Sean would be why is it that Christianity tends to breed the most judgmental types of people I have ever come in contact with?
Sean McDowell, you are very intelligent and compassionate. Most of what you say is accurate. However, if you're straight, it's very easy to say "gay people should seek forgiveness and should go straight". First of all, it's not merely same-sex attraction for most gay people. It's more of a belief that some people are born gay. Also, even though God made male & female from the beginning, He didn't say that there couldn't be something else. The earth itself screams God's diversity with spectacular mountain ranges, speckled islands, oceans, and flowered fields. I'm guessing that Paul was straight; therefore he couldn't fully understand the concept of homosexuality & being gay in a committed & monogamous relationship. Which by the way, the word "homosexuality" didn't exist in Biblical days: And, Paul wasn't Infallible. Jesus had to correct the apostles, the pharisees, and others on numerous occasions. Jesus never touched on the subject of homosexuality. He only said "God made male & female from the beginning": But, that's obvious isn't it? Again, He didn't say there couldn't be something else apart from the obvious. Maybe, He thought that humanity would grow & mature physically & spiritually. Perhaps, one day we would we even think outside of the box. Maybe this is why Jesus left this particular directive alone. Biblical people were not ready to take on this sensitive subject. Think about this..... that some Jews in The New Testament called Jesus blasphemous because He corrected the writers & forefathers of The Old Testament. In a sense, He was considered radical in those days. Please read Bruce Lowe's writings "Letter to Louise: God Made Me Gay"....If you haven't already.
You are very incorrect about God not touching on homosexuality very wrong, because clearly the Adam and Eve demonstration address it, read leviticus, Roman's and Genis as well As Matthew's it is addressed
We don't need your compassion. After being 20 years in the Evangestic Church, I've realised it's a religion like any other one. Jesus was never an Evangelistic. Jesus has found me outside the church and to serve him, I don't need to be in one. Loving Jesus and my neighbor fulfills all the law. 🇦🇷🇦🇷♥️♥️😍🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈⛪⛪😚😚😚🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷
Adrian dyer 1 second ago Even though its was very calm if gays don't repent you are still going to hell,if liars ,thieves,fornicators and other sinful actions don't repent they are still going to hell ,so don't get too comfortable,people don't wanna go to hell but yet don't wanna change, if i wanna loose weight i have to change my life style ,getting up every day saying i wanna loose weight doesn't do anything MAKE THE CHANGE
This is all based on the idea that the bible is actually the word of God and not a collection of stories/myths/legends told over time, eventually written down by unknown authors in Hebrew and Greek, translated into many different versions, with books added/dropped. The bible has so many inconsistencies and contradictions and there's so much infighting into who is right and wrong about their interpretation or translation. Christianity is practiced by 31% of the world's population. The other 69%, or approximately 5 billion people, practice another religion or none. Hell is sure gonna be crowded! The damage of continually reinforcing the belief that someone is an abomination or deviant has real consequences. You can gingerly step around the issue by saying "same sex attraction" and calling it "sin" which gives a gay person an "out" to help support your narrative of a compassionate, loving God - but the truth is - Your God was bored, created "good" and "evil" - didn't have to by the way. Then, decided he'd have fun and put us all through a little test just to see how committed we all could be to a jealous and vengeful God. If you don't pass the test - off to eternal torment. It doesn't matter how you try to twist the story - it's always going to be twisted. Real freedom for me was letting go of religion, christianity and continual judgment by a mysterious, supposedly loving but completely silent "God". I now base my belief on evidence and science and not mythology. Man has always looked to the skies to find meaning and has constructed stories, long before the bible's existence. And man has also tried to figure out a way to control masses of people. Religion seems to fit that bill but nothing else.
@@xKoeix Buddha's way is wisdom, while Christians believe in the bloody sacrifice of a man. Buddha's salvation is his life and teachings while Christianity core is Jesus' death, based on a primitive idea of sacrificing animals to appease the gods. Everything in Christianity is pagan.
@@kgabomolele3346 Slavery is right to God. I'm from Brazil and my country was the last to abolish Slavery in 1888. Slavery regulations were taken from the Bible, and millions of Africans were captured and forced to work in South America. So, according to you, you must be pro-slavery for the Bible does not condemn it. By the way, the first thing the new slaves received as soon as they arrived was the baptism and a Christian name. Slavery was seen as positive for they had become Christians and then had a chance of salvation. Mind your words, learn the History of your people.
This weak teaching on homosexuality, given 8 years ago, has aided in the rampant growth of acceptance of LGBTQ in the church. You cannot be a gay christian just as you can't be an adulterer christian. In I Cor. 6, Paul wrote "such were some of you." Repent and Christ will forgive you through the power of the grace of Christ. In Romans 1, Paul did not speak with tenderness, he spoke with power and truth. To speak frank does not mean you're unloving.
I am an atheist. Dr. Sean McDowell is an amazing man, his emotional intelligence, compassion and communication skills are fantastic. I disagree with him about 70% of the time, but he is one of the few Christians I find worth listening to.
Fifty years ago I got to spend a whole day with Sean's dad Josh. He's the real deal.
You're not an atheist..u just pretend to be like everyone else narcissistic enough to declare themselves atheist.. the very name atheist implies you at least have doubts about ur own beliefs
@@mitchelll3879 Fuck you. You think you know what I believe. Your bullshit is just you parroting stupid apologetic talking points.
So good! Thank you. I wished I had heard this years ago. Nonetheless, I am no longer living in an alternative lifestyle as God has transformed me and I am now a new creation in Christ. Praise the Lord!
The description of homosexuality as a lifestyle is a blatent oversimplification of human sexuality in general and homosexuality in particular. The purpose of this indoctrination of the collective societal psyche is paramount to the self validating delusion of heterosexuality possessing moral superiority. The reason that we never hear the term " heterosexual lifestyle" is because there is no need to catogorize heterosexuality with such descriptively inherent connotative oversimplification in order to subconciously justify contempt and hatred through subjective comparison. While such complex objectivity is certain to threaten the subjectively comparative sense of moral superiority of many, such is the cost of growth demanded by truth.
This is amazing. As a struggling gay person, this message brought me to tears and hope. Thank you Dr Sean McDowell for this.❤🙏🙏
I'm gay, and it took a stroke, that occurred on the anniversary of the death of my first love, for me to come to God. He rocked my world!
I like that he talks about a subject that is sensitive in Christian circles with compassion.
This man speaks with honesty, passion, and compassion. Thanks!
Why did God create gay people with the same passions for love as str8 people if he didnt want them to utilize those feelings? That just doesnt make sense. Im reading in John 1:1-3 and it reads he created everything.
@Charles Case You are another common christian liar who takes faith over proven scientific evidence. You are a liar. You create and encourage hate.
I have always imagined myself being part of a world with no labels ,people “living”to the fullest,smiling faces everywhere ,everybody as one, it sounds like a fantasy but in my mind it’s real ,that thought it’s what keeps me going in life that thought which it’s been part of me since I was a kid and I have refused to give up on it.I don’t wanna go deep at all in my comment ,This is my advice people:CHILL ! CHILL !CHILL ! and let’s make this life experience much better everyday
I totally agree, as ignorant as your comment.
Sean if more people were like you this world would be a much better place and more people would feel loved by God and have a life with him in the end love you and God bless you ❤️
"Change is possible." You got it right on point.
"It(Bible) doesn't call homosexuals to become straight. It calls ALL OF US to leave our sin behind and become holy!"
Because generally, Christians think that when a gay becomes a Christian, he becomes straight as well. Which aggravates the situation.
There's a missing piece to all these "Gay" discussions. This one is so close to that piece. I commend Sean for this.
the bible dosen´t address sexual orientation. Is change possible for the reverse aswell? straight to gay?
I've struggled deeply with same-sex attraction (while married to my husband)... it was a dark chapter in my marriage that involved a lot but one thing that pulled me out of it was turning to The Word and hearing what my pastor had said in love (not knowing about my struggle): "homosexuality is nothing more than an extreme love of self." It was when I realized that I wanted God's will in my life more than I wanted to escape marital trouble. He's been admonishing and edifying me as a wife ever since... but I now have an empathy for gay people that I never had before, EVEN THOUGH I firmly believe it's against God.
That's deep and I commend you for sharing and for denying self and seeking Christ.
if God made u gay....end of.
@Andy Thom homophobics make sure any gay people they know have a low self esteem too.
@Andy Thom which shows us being gay is not a sin!
Are you not having the feeling again?
According to Sean being compassionate towards a gay person includes
A. Speak with tenderness
B. Do not allow gay jokes and comments
C. Preach the Gospel: Change is Possible
If this talk was a model for tenderness and compassion I'd rather prefer not to be dealt with tenderly.
Well I don't mind gay jokes at all, laughing is good and sometimes one needs to laugh about oneself or about a bad joke.
Change of my gay identity is something I tried for too long, it is simply not possible. It is just like hiding oneself from the truth for some time but looking into a mirror you know it will always be so. You cannot pray your identity away and if it was God's will I am sure he would listen to the prayers of such afflicted people.
God accepts you the way you are. You are lovable just how you are right now. If it weren't that way he would not have sent his son Jesus to die for you even before you were born.
I watched the video to see what practical advise Sean would offer on how to deal with gay Christians tenderly. I thought he would tell us something like "invite them to have good times together", "make friends with them", "ask them about their feelings of struggle and listen to them", "take them into your arms, give them a hug which lasts for longer than just 5 seconds; they might be missing it so much", "tell them you love them", "include them into your lives", "don't be afraid of them, they are people like you and me".
But all I heard was how to tell a gay Christian that their inclinations are bad with "tender" words. Don't forget - a gay person can change. He/She just needs to pray intensely enough. God will help him/her.
Should you attend your gay friend's marriage? - Of course you should not. Find some "kind" words to excuse yourself and distance yourself.
Do you feel the question "How do you know you were made being gay?" be consoling? Is not the intent of such a question to fire the guilt in a person who already struggles with feelings of loneliness and shame? As long as your sexual identity is "in line with the Bible" you even don't have to ask yourself this question. But as a gay person you should?
A heterosexual person who is looking for a mate and close companionship is just doing fine. A gay Christian trying to do the same is viewed as selfish, lustful, a sex monster (ok I am exaggerating a bit to make the point clear). But is such difference compatible with the principle of love?
And sorry to say that, but both Romans 1 or the report about Sodom are not about gay people but describe heterosexual people committing serious immoral acts. Applying these texts to gay people hurts deeply.
The Mosaic law on homosexuality may seem quite clear. But what if a man was raped by another man? According to the law he laid with a man and had to be put to death. Where is the morality behind? Why had there been no law on female homosexual acts in the Law? Were these OK? Should we not ask about the background of these passages and the historical context?
The acts of homsexuality in 1. Corinthians and 1. Timothy refer to sexual exploitation of men by men. Oh, why does the text not talk about women? What is the reason behind it? Have you ever asked these questions?
Sexual exploitation is not what a gay Christian is pursuing and has nothing to do with a loving relationship that a gay person wishes to have.
How would you feel being condemned to life long loneliness by not being allowed to fall in love, even being afraid of falling in love with someone? How would you feel if your sexual desire is strong and you are told that you are not allowed to have any sex during your whole life - and please don't forget, masterbation is an act of lust, so please don't even touch yourself.
God's love is toward all people among whom he does not make a distinction. I encourage everyone reading my lines to think about how you would like to be treated and just do it to anyone around you - not just gay people. Thanks for so doing, I love you.
God's blessing for you
Thomas
Watch Allen Parr interview on his channel The Beat with former lesbian leader of LGBT community and how she got saved. Doesn't mean she no longer has the attraction to women but theres a reason Jesus says "one must deny himself." And if it's too much for us then we can't follow Him. Eternity in Hell is worth no sin, lust, sex, gay or straight. And that's the truth
@@mcmc2383 God saves by grace through faith and not by works or by not doing certain things. This is the gospel.
All of us need God's grace, no matter how big or small our sins may seem. Jesus went to the prostitutes of his day, but nowhere in the Bible do we find a word of condemnation. Instead he forgave them out of grace.
I know Jesus sustains me in my current state and takes care of me.
If by hell your refer to the lake of fire, then please note of the following: 1 God is a consuming fire. 2 The lake or better pond of fire burns with sulfur, reminding the reader of a refiner who melts precious metals (which looks like a pond) and adds sulfur to get unwanted impurities out of it. So the lake of fire symbolizes a refining procedure. Everything thrown into it is freed from sin. Death and Hades are thrown into it, because sin is their stick which will be removed thus making death ineffective.
God and Jesus conquer their enemies or prevail over sin by love and not by destruction or torment.
God bless
God doesn't love is because we are just fine how we are; He loves us because of who He is! God is love, He can be no other.
We are all called to lay our lives down to Jesus. He did that on the cross for us, and it's our duty and our honour to do the same towards Him.
That means our bodies, sexuality, thoughts, feelings, time, money, everything!
I am celibate and it is not always easy, but it is right and has its reward as it is my obedience to the one who saves me 💖
We are all born I to sin and need to repent and align ourselves to God's will and plan for our lives.
@@lilmisspeace Thanks for your comment. I would be interested in your opinion on the following point. When God had created Adam he said "It is not good for man to be alone". He did so despite Adam had a relationship with God himself which surely was intimate. How would you explain that God in your opinion requires of gay Christians what he did not require of Adam? Being celibate is a gift but not for all and definitely it is not for all who are gay.
Thanks, Thomas
Thank you for your thoughtful comment, Thomas. It gives me a lot to think about.
wow the comments... I wonder people actually watched the video at all and are actually willing to listen. I hope most people do and only those who disagree are commenting.
Joey Ouyang READ ROMANS 1!
@@fernandocuriel124 Read Ezekiel 23"20 She lusted after lovers with genitals as large as a donkey’s and emissions like those of a horse. Your Bible says a lot of crazy shit. Jesus never spoke a single word against gays. Paul supposedly wrote Romans. You must worship Paul.
Kit Cumbie Professor or Essene?
Kit Cumbie Gnostic.
Kit Cumbie Why do you worship many books In the New Testament written by Paul but ignore homosexuality In 1 Corinthians 6; 9-11. LOL! HAHA! You are truly a False Teacher, Scripture Revisionist, and a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
I love how people try to compare, -dont curse -dont eat pork -dont over-drink - be a good person to -stop being gay. Put it this way. If you are a straight man or straight women. Think about how it would feel if someone forced you to be with your same sex. You might become friends sure, but you will be miserable, hate your life and forever yearn to be with the opposite sex again. Same concept but reversed. It is wrong to guilt people into being with someone they dont want to be with.
That is a very twisted analogy. When a person, male, desires to have a wife, a female, he knows clystar clear, 100%, that he is having a desires ordained by God himself, because Gods ordained natural order, made it so that a penis should go inside of vagina. When a person, a male, begins to desire to have a sexual relationship with another guy, when he begin to have desires to stick his penis into this guys rectum or have his penis in your rectum, he knows, clystar clear, 100% that what he is desiring is not Gods natural order, it is a corruption, a perversion of order.
sadly thats the difference between religious folk and christians......its religious people who have issues with gay people, not christians.
Pastor Brian. Very well put!
@@bhdctn ur welcome, shame more people can't see it.
Niko Kapanen so, eventually... usually, men and women get old and a lot of times sex is no longer part of the equation. So then is it ok for two men to snuggle in bed and hold hands as companions and long as they don’t have sex??? If a gay man had his male part destroyed in some strange accident and couldn’t have sex ever again he would still want to bond with a man. His sexuality isn’t in his penis. Each person has a God given homing device telling them to whom to be attracted. It has nothing to do with the penis.
Everything he said spot on and I love his approach and energy. God bless you!
Thank you so much for this! And also for the clarity on all sins not being equal with biblical references to back up!🙏🙏
God bless Dr. Sean. It’s always fruitful listening to him.
And thank you for this video👍🏻👍🏻
Just reference Revelation 21:8, not all about LGBTQ! WE ARE ALL SINNERS WHO NEED FORGIVENESS FOR OUR SINS. HOW DO WE GET THAT JESUS CHRIST HE IS THE CURE FOR SIN!!
STOP CHOOSING THE FLESH OVER GOD!
Hi Seàn, thank you so much for teaching in a Godly, loving way a problem that myself and many other people in Australia are struggling with right now. A young N.R.L.player posted on his web-site from 1Corinthians ch.6 verse9. As a consequence there has been a huge public outcry accsung him of homophobia and of bigotry. He is also being charged for breaking the terms of his professional contract. As a result the matter has not been resolved and is now going to the high Court. Please pray for us in Australia, that we can learn torespond to such controversial issues in a loving ,wise and most importantly Godly way. Thank you, you are funny as well. God bless you, Dolores, mother/grandmother and great-grandmother.
I'm man who shared an unbroken, monogamous relationship with the man I called my husband for 45 years until his death seven years ago. A year later, I found salvation in the arms of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and have been covenantly celibate ever since.
There is an abundance of love and compassion in Pastor McDowell's video presentation. And an abundance of truth.
That is not to say that every point is entirely accurate. For example, homosexuality is not unnatural, because it is a phenomenon found in nearly 1,500 animal species, among which almost 750 form lifelong, same-sex pairings. See "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity," a book written by Dr. Bruce Bagemihl.
@@nikokapanen82 You and your religion is the only corrupt "part" of anything. In fact, ALL organised religion is corrupt. This is why religious fanatics are losing their minds on the progression of a SECULAR society in which we live. All I say, is Thank God .....
What a sad tribute to your husband. You should be ashamed!
@@nikokapanen82 Homosexuality is no more sinful than heterosexuality. Your perverted hate is showing.
Kit Cumbie NO! You should be ashamed.
Kit Cumbie Your perverted interpretation of Tolerance is showing!
I commend this pastor because a lot of other pastors avoid this speaking on this sin and completely avoid preaching on it.
Really? What two Pastors are those? The pulpit can't shut up about homosexuality and most Christians can't stop thinking about it.
Frank Cadmus Are you actually generalizing the pulpit?
God did not stop talking after the Bible was written. The problem is we don’t have the faith to trust our ability to listen. Instead we demand a step by step rule book that tells us what a good Christian looks like. Basically a guide to teach us how to act Christian.
Acting Christian and being Christian are opposite ends of the spectrum.
Jesus’s greatest lesson was from the cross. He didn’t talk about homosexuality, he talked about forgiveness, specifically forgiving those that would become his murderers! While homosexuality may be the topic du jour, it’s forgiveness that needs to be addressed. When was the last time you heard a minister preach on how to completely forgive? You can’t love if you can’t forgive. Faking it till you make it doesn’t work. Speaking love and compassion doesn’t work if you don’t have the same sentiment in your heart.
Real love, forgiveness, compassion, empathy is very hard to BE!
This well meaning man is putting the cart before the horse.
I believe this is why so many Churches are dying a slow death. Maybe this is a good thing. Maybe they will will re-emerge as places that teach how to be a Christian and not clubs for people who want an easy path to Christianity by pretending to be loving, compassionate, forgiving, etc.
Mark Magbee ...agree... when mysticism is pushed out moralism raises its ugly head.
So what do you say to gay people that have been in a loving monogamous relationship for years. Is their love for each other somehow less worthy because they are the same sex? So are they supposed to walk away from their partner? Gay couples are capable of being in loving/stable relationships!
i know of 124 sins that will get you dragged to hell when you die without confession and repentance, if any of these sins are in your life, when you die jesus does not have you!!! you belong to a demon and you get dragged to hell because satan hates us because we were created in the image of our father, satan wants all of to die and miss out on heaven, gods word is perfect and anyone who says differently is a liar and is of satan. satan told me when i was 3 years old that i liked men, but i have went to church my whole life and i have fallen many times and christ is faithful and just to forgive me if i confess and repent for all my sins.
@@Terrytrump7 Pop a tuney.....We got a looney.
@@Terrytrump7 What will happen to Satan - why is he allowed to live?
@@simonleaf2765 it’s all in gods word
@@Terrytrump7 ?
What we need in the world is the real church back, one filled with genuine Christians who have surrendered there life genuinely to God because real and faithfull Christians understand this journey we are on is tough, because you will be asked to give up everything in your life for christ but it's always a choice you don't have to do this journey.
It can be hard to follow Jesus faithfully when so many voices and churches pump out teachings that are not orthodox or historically accurate.
I got born again in a cult and my head was full of their twisted teachings, I saw scripture in a twisted way according to their teachings and went through deprogramming!
Then I ended up in a church that God literally said had "doctrines of demons" & He had to deliver me from a demon in my body before I could see clearly and leave that congregation!
I am now in College studying theology and realizing how faulty my view of scripture is because of all the years of faulty teachings...
Sean McDowell alluded to photographers, bakers and florists who refused to offer their services n connection with a same-sex marriage because of their Christian beliefs.
As an example, Jack Phillips opened his bakery under the provisions of the business license he was issued. That license requires him to follow the laws of the State of Colorado, among which are protections against discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. His license requires him to offer ALL of his services to ALL of the public, regardless of sexual orientation. He has chosen to ignore that stipulation.
So now he has four choices: 1) Comply with the law; 2) Decline to bake wedding cakes for anyone; 3) Close his business; 4) Move his business to a state that does not have nondiscrimination laws . Many states would allow him to discriminate against LGBT folk, for any reason at all.
@Paul Weidig
He has chosen #2. His website still states this... "Masterpiece Cakeshop is not currently accepting requests to create custom wedding cakes. Please check back in the future." There are even more laws in place in his state and he knows he got off easy.
@@ifihadahammer7856 I just subscribed to your channel because I've read two of your comments so far and am very impressed by your insight.
How can you force a person, who is a follower of Christ to make a cake which specifically displays homosexual behavior? That would violate his rights to practise his faith.
@@nikokapanen82 How did a cake display homosexual behavior? Did it have penis decoration all over it? I think they just wanted a regular wedding cake.
@@nikokapanen82
No one requested that the cake display "homosexual behavior". Your ilk do have a wild imagination.
I am so glad to see these things being addressed. Thank you. If the gay community is constantly told they will go to hell and are an abomination how does that help them to find God? When God says I handed them over into their sin.
Now taking any other sin doesn't he do the same? The adulterers.. the fornicaters, the idolatrous.. the mammon hungry, (lovers of money), truth is the heart can be full of all sorts of wickedness.. unnecessary violence, hatred, drunkenness, murder, slander, gossip, abuse, covetousness and theft.. vanity, lovers of self over others... just to name a few
God warns about all of these things.. God also said through Jesus, he hates the religious attitudes.. those who cast burdens upon others that they themselves cannot keep..
It's a very good understanding that unless a person knows what it's like to be attracted to the same sex.. how can they honestly understand the issues that go with that. I often wondered why my own dad had said he was more upset I went to a Catholic church than the Mardi gras one year. Both times with the same person.. Ive come to the conclusion that while one is offensive to the church and faith I grew up under.. at least they were being honest about what their life and choices "or sin before God's eyes" than many within the church who hide and lie and cannot be honest about their lives.. not even acknowledging the "sin" within their own while they still cast unfair judgements upon others. I'm not saying homosexuality is biblically sound nor should there be homosexuality within those claiming Gods name.. but those who are not living under biblical lifestyle.. are not held to that same bar so to speak. What about all those who may have had homosexual dreams and panicked... Too scared to speak it out for fear of what others think.. knowing themselves to not be gay or lesbian and yet possibly being aroused by the dream? I've had this said to me before and I laughed and said your not lesbian for having a dream.. I wasn't ashamed of that person.. at all. I was grateful they trusted me enough to be honest because I don't enjoy seeing people struggle unecessarily.
I have asked men before would you consider yourself bisexual?
Some said yes and I felt others get angered by such a suggestion. If we are not allowed to ask or confront things.. then how do we know who we are dealing with and then what possible issues may arise from that? That's why I had said I found a man who had sexually explored himself attractive because he wasn't threatened to even try and consider.. but it doesn't make them gay or bi sexual.. but rather can have more understanding and compassion for those who have been struggling. Many find a genuine freedom and sigh of relief kind of thing because oh I'm free to actually speak? Yep.. you are. So long as honest with me we have no issues. So long as your not trying to force or endanger my life.. all is good. So I am so happy to see these things being addressed within the churches.
Much like when the religious came about adultery and Jesus said I tell you if you have even looked upon a woman with lust in your heart you are just as guilty. Why? He knew their inner hearts and all that went through their minds.. yet they judged those who did in the physical what they did in private thought. Yet saw themselves as being better than those who had physically partaken. Every time he uses the word hypocrite! To the religious it's overwhelmingly freeing because he was defending those who were being shamed by those who were inwardly or secretly their equal in sin. For that reason many owe me an apology.
Every comment about homosexuality is either too short or too long
He is cute and i could listen to him all day. Been through reparitive therapy but it doesn't help. Acceptance of homosexual feelings does. As you get older you realise you don't have to act on those feelings.
Coming from someone who fingers vagina
I do see the love pouring out of Christians like Sean. It makes me want a closer walk with Jesus and leaves me with an openness to His guidance.
It's still the same obsession all Christians practice in order to convert people to their cause.
The problem is with people who call a sin "an identity", the identity of Christians is in Christ not in their sins, and they definitely are not PROUD of their sin, whatever it is.
That is an amazingly vague answer or retort.
How do you call not selling your belongings and not giving it to the poor?
A sin or a hypocrite identity?
@@peteralleyman1388 You took it out of context like the rainbow totalitarian party people usually do. You can't love money more than Christ, and you have to work and make a profit to be able to share. It is the priority that matters. As far as the sin of identity, the scripture is very clear about it. You either get it or you are lying to yourself calling Christ a liar as well.
I have a suggestion to get the word out at Calvary for the meeting of gay men....don't separate the materials or give only to certain groups/genders but everyone. That way they don't feel singled out or misunderstood. Just a thought. God bless. Awesome things you're doing to this underserved group of future believers!
If idolatry is the greatest sin then why not preach on that instead of homosexuality? Oh wait, because then you'd have to preach against yourself and your audience and that might risk offending them and losing their donations.
My lord, you people really have a thing about sex. Amazing, just amazing.
The kindest most compassionate thing we can do is show the nonbeliever what sin is and tell him about Jesus.
To the guy with the goatee, we've heard this all before from people like John Paulk, Alan Chambers, and Michael Johnston. And every one of them now tell a completely different story. Here's a good article from probably the most well known ex-gay, now ex-ex-gay.
www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/06/life-as-ex-ex-gay-paulk-108090.html#.VKRXEyvF98E
Well i think a person being true to himself/herself being attracted to same sex gender means it's like confessing their sin.. Because if you did not admit it.. It will struggle you the whole life..so let's us respect a person being true to his/her indifference and help his/her get through it.. We can never fully understand a sistuation until we experience it but of course heterosexual will never will
Dumb is the person 😂
To be fair, it appears the word used in 1Corinthians 6 is effeminate or malakoi not homosexuality. Effeminate or malakoi men were those who were "soft" extravagant, frivolous, self-serving, showy, flaunting, and weak in character.
Biblical times didn't even have homosexuality in their vocabulary.
so im bisexual. and i dont believe that i nor anyone else should be judged based on who they love. I respect you for this video, but christians are supposed to treat others how they would want to be treated, and treat others like God would treat them. In leviticus, it talks about sodomy as in rape, not a willingness act. I fully believe that if you choose to be homosexual & have sex or even be attracted to the same sex, you should be treated with the same respect as if you were the love the opposite.
You can of course how some might consider your point mildly hypocritical, mentioning if you change your thoughts on something you'll lose your job, and after reading everything on both sides you haven't changed at all.
I prayer for GOD , to help you pastor and I pray for a 🌎 world that need GPDS HAND 🤚🏾 TO SAVE. US ALL I prayer in JESUS CHRIST NAME🙏🏾🙏🏾Amen
"If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
Now why is it that the first part of the verse is quoted and apparently still applies but the second part is stealthily edited out and not discussed?
Did God change his mind on the murdering gays part, but is still creeped out by gay sex?
Or is it just that Christians did and are?
Hi Stephan Marcus,
Stephan I am Pastor Eric and your questions were forwarded to me to answer on behalf of Calvary Church. Sir I will try to do my best to understand your questions and respond. Your first question is highlighting what was presented in the reading of the Old Testament passage, that a part of it, you say the second part was “stealthily” left out, you ask, “Now why is it that the first part of the verse is quoted and apparently still applies but the second part is “stealthily” edited out and not discussed? I hope I can sufficiently answer your inquiries.
Stephen you are correct in your observation yet understand that the second is not edited out, but rather it is purposely left out and presented this way reflecting what we know in New Testament theology reveals is our responsibility concerning such sin, death by stoning is not and endorsed practice or sentence to be carried out (See John 8:5), rather such sin is dealt with in grace in the New Testament. The New Testament reflects what is now as you know “the age of grace” where we are now no longer under law but under grace (Romans 6:14).
The Old Testament and the text you are quoting from, I believe is Leviticus 20:13, this is the Law presented to the Jews during this time. (The Law was for the Jews see Leviticus 26:46, thus the response from Jesus in John 8:5, ‘you without sin cast the first stone...’ great grace is given). Therefore the church does not condone, or practice stoning homosexuals, and others who are guilty of sexual sins (see Leviticus 18). Rather the church is instructed, and instructs that we should treat all men with grace, love, compassion, empathy, and mercy. (see also 1 Corinthians 6:11; Exodus 34:6-7; Ephesians 2:4-5; Proverbs 12:10...) The same compassion, love, empathy, and mercy we ourselves have received from God through Jesus Christ, because we are, were all such sinners deserving of death and separated from God. Yet we are not instructed to “tolerate” sin, sexual sin in the church, (Jesus instructed, “...Go and sin no more...”)therefore we do not embrace and allow the ongoing practice of homosexuality in the church (see 1 Corinthians 5). Understand that Jesus Christ came to fulfill all Old Testament prophecies (Matthew 5:17-18; Romans 10:4) and establishes the our New Testament mandates, Jesus came to fulfill all that was written in the Law and the Prophets. All of it is pointing to Him. We accept Him not as just Savior, but also Lord, in saying that, we are choosing to live in obedience to Him as Lord.
Therefore in highlighting this it is important to note then God does not change His mind. Furthermore understand God’s attitude towards homosexuality, and other sexual sin does not change it is still an abomination and all is treated the same. Malachi 3:6 declares, “I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed.” Similarly, James 1:17 tells us, “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.” Numbers 23:19 is clear: “God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?” Based on these verses, no, God does not change. God is unchanging and unchangeable. He is also all-wise. So He cannot change His mind.
Stephan, you ask, “Did God change his mind on the “murdering” gays...? Stephan, first understand that God does not “murder,” but rather He gives just judgment, punishment, for wickedness rebellion and sin, i.e. disobedience to His commandments (see Genesis 2:17) “Death” is the just judgment/punishment for disobedience to God’s Laws as we see throughout the Old Testament. See book By Sean McDowell, “Is God Just a Human Invention.” We cannot make God in our own image, and demand of Him a change in His moral attitude and or character or His judgments and demands i.e. commandments to abstain from certain sins and practices. Understand this all begins to point to the Holiness of God, 1 Samuel 2:2 “There is none holy like the Lord; there is none besides You; there is no rock like our God. 1 Peter 1:15-16 “But as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, since it is written, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.”
You ask, “Did God change His mind about homosexuality...?” (‘In that we are not stoned to death for homosexuality...?’) No, Steven He didn’t but because we are no longer under Law but under grace, grace requires us to make a strong loving appeal to all (and homosexuals) who sin against God to turn to Him to find forgiveness, healing, and a living relationship with the living God and the hope of eternal life. (See also James 5:20; Romans 10:8-10)
See from this New Testament text if you can discern if God if has changed His mind concerning homosexuality. Romans 1:18-27 and if that is not clear enough read, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Please note that it is all who practice lawlessness, all the sexually immoral,( All sexual deviation is sin- Heterosexual and Homosexual) and furthermore thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, swindlers and or cheaters... all these will not inherit the kingdom of God all face the same death and the same separation from God.
Here are two messages Pastor Skip taught on homosexuality it is a balanced teaching and what the Christian response should be along side of Sean McDowell’s teaching here at Calvary Church. This is what Christians are and should be taught on the matter.
Part One: www.calvaryabq.org/teachings_view.asp?ServiceID=3159
Part Two: www.calvaryabq.org/teachings_view.asp?ServiceID=3199
Stephan, thank you so much for your great questions and for allowing us to answer and to be a resource for you on this matter. I pray I was able to answer your questions clearly. Please let me know if you have any further questions.
In His great love and service,
Eric P. Lamb
Pastor: Eric Lamb
The second part of that verse is why there is a Gay Rights movement. History has shown society has taken that verse too literally and have institutionalized and executed homosexuals for just having the attraction at best. Criminalization of homosexuality got so severely out of control it forced people to fight back. The modern day LGBT community views this verse as a barbaric punishment.
There is a gay rights movement because people beat, fire, evict and murder gay people because of their weaknesses, fear and faith.
@@MrKit9 My comment was written from an observational perspective. I am completely disgusted with how Christians gloss over that part of the verse not realizing it is one of the big reasons gay people feel a sense of suffering.
@@georgecrenshaw6309 my apologies.
WE have been here since the Dawn of Time!
WE pre-date ALL religious sects!
WE are in EVERY family!
OUR contributions to Humanity are incalculable!
WE are not going ANYwhere!
I had a local Church secretary call my lady and I an abomination because we have a family together and we're not legally married so I asked her I said ma'am isn't that God's place to judge us.
Also where in the bible does it say you have to be ‘legally married’. If you have sex in the eyes of God you are married.
@@nrthnmonkey3308 wrong. Matthew 19:3 ¶ The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.
Mark 7:20 And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.
21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
22 Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
23 All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
1 corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
@@ourlifeinwashington4114 nice word "wrong"...
The verse he is referring to in 1 Cor 6:9 uses the Greek word. Arsenokoitai. His bible translates this word as homosexual but the word homosexual wasn’t inserted until the 19th century.
Although the word in English Bibles is interpreted as referring to homosexuals, we can be fairly certain that this is not the meaning that Paul wanted to convey. If he had, he would have used the word "paiderasste." That was the standard Greek term at the time for sexual activity between males. We can conclude that he probably meant something different than people who engaged in male-male adult sexual behavior. Early interpreters said “abusers of mankind” to translate arsenokoital others interpreted this Greek word as masterbators. It’s a unique word only used by Paul and interpreters only speculate as to the meaning.
Deborah H. Whatever the word the bible clearly condemns sexual activity between the same sex.
@@saffylew Another liar. Jesus never spoke a word against it. You do claim to worship Christ don't you?
Kit Cumbie I can tell you are not a Christian. Jesus clearly addressed sexuality when a man and woman leave their father and mother to be joined together. Jesus is also God and it’s spoken about in Leviticus and also in 1 Corinthians and throughout the bible homosexual
Relationship is not supported and condemned as sin. There is hope for all caught in this. Jesus can make us new and died for our FREEDOM from all sin! Give your life to Him
Deborah H. Scripture Revisionist & False Teacher!
Deborah H. Liberal Christianity=Approval & Loved By The World. Biblical Christianity following Paul=You will be hated by the world.
"I am a teacher... I wrote a book... I wrote a book... my name is Sean McDowell..." 🙃
Due to not wanting to " cast my pearls before swine" many religious folks would have a fit if they knew the extent of this gay mans in depth spiritual experiences. Wow.
Apostle Paul is a human like us, and his writings inspire us but it is also subject for interpretation at that time of his writing. I believe Jesus Christ more than apostle Paul.
Louie Adam Huh?
Louie Adam BE AWARE that Paul also wrote half of all the books that make up the modern New Testament we have today. Always know that Cafeteria Christianity is much worst than strict fundamentalist Christianity. Liberal & mainstream churches are actually declining rapidly more than conservative evangelical churches. Of course there’s going to be some exceptions but that doesn’t change the whole reality.
But also Paul did not said homosexuality is a sin or kind of like that. As I read is closer to that you should not just try out same-sex "experience" just because of amusement or desire and curiosity, because it is such bad as adultery.
I would not put much in what PAUL SAID he never met the living jesus
The think about going to a marriage ceremony is that the witnesses are witnesses in a legal/spiritual sense, which is why the phrase about "if anyone knows why this shouldn't happen" has traditionally been used. I know that if I attend a wedding, just by my presence I am making a legal/spiritual statement of agreement to the marriage. Over my life I have noticed that there are hetero weddings I don't agree with for one reason or another. I don't go to those. Others that I believe I want to agree with I do attend as a statement of that agreement.
Sorry, but tender, compassionate homophobia is still homophobia.
Love yr talk! When u break God's laws, there are consequences! 🤷♀️🇦🇺
Yes Allah always delivers consequences.
I hope this means that you realise that your actions have consequences also! Or. Is this yet another snide dig at gays?
The FSM will indeed boil your sinful ass in tomato sauce.
R'amen.
What about breaking the Sabbath law in the Ten Commandments?
Not many Christians heeding that (blessed and sanctified by God) but they make the "CHOICE" to venerate "Sun"-day instead, which is nowhere commanded by God or Jesus in Scripture.
Christians say homosexuality is a " CHOICE" but I see many Christians making many "CHOICES" too that break GOD'S COMMANDMENTS AND LAWS and do not line up with the Word of God.
Some black kettles out there preaching to the pots with huge wooden planks obscuring their view. This "teacher" has a veneer of compassion, yet pounds the underlying anti-gay theology.
Bless your heart.
Don't ask questions if you don't want answers.
75th birthday - this annual veneration was not recorded as being a practice of the early Church.
The only "birth"-days in the Bible were celebrated by self-seeking despots like Pharoah and Herod. It's also a huge financial pressure to satisfy the expectations of friends and relatives.
Maybe that's why Jesus never commanded anyone to celebrate His birth or even His resurrection on special annual 'holy days' but rather only to remember His atoning death.
Are there any videos of someone like Sean McDowell giving a discussion like this to an LGBT audience? I feel like a very crucial issue was not addressed in regards to homosexuality in sermons like these to a church group.
Not just any church group, but one lead by a man who is obviously insecure about his heterosexual privilege, the disgustingly sexist, and condescending bigot, spiritual extortionist Skip Heitzig... who says that if everyone doesn't do as Skip says, God is not above ordering up genocide. (See his sermon on Jonah.)
george - you mentioned a very crucial issue is not addressed, but you never stated what that issue was. can you say more?
@@Lil08103Sean does not address why these kind of relationships are persued in the first place. If he gave this sermon to an LGBT audience, it will seem like he is assuming they are "choosing" to be deviant with God. He never tries to understand why a "biblically endorsed" union would not work for them.
@@georgecrenshaw6309 thank you. i will go back and review with this lens. it's been quite some time since i viewed it.
Yes, it's easy to spout to a Christian audience.
They rely on regular indocrination to keep their "faith" going.
why don't we have more pastors like him? And it's so sad that most of people watching this are not even willing to listen to his message.
While I'm glad to hear Christians uphold compassion as an answer to this question of innate sexuality, there is still some ways to go for the religious to step past the concept of 'sin' and to alleviate this quasi-condescending schizophrenia of hating the 'sin' and loving the 'sinner'. Don't get me wrong, I will take any kind of compassion/inclusion/kindness over hate/rejection/violence.
As someone who the religious would call atheist _(I'm an astampcollector too btw... much maligned in the stamp-collector circles!)_ I believe we humans are in the trailing end of a long journey out of pre-scientific, superstitious social models which include both extinct _(Zeus anybody?)_ and extant religions. We are growing as a planet where every day the lines that currently divide us are fading _(of course, we are pretty ingenious at creating new ones... so it is not all blue-sky!)_ and we may be about 5 to 10 generations (75 to 200 years) away from dumping this idea of 'sin' entirely out of our vocabulary.
In the meantime, we journey together as a species and there's absolutely nothing wrong in cherry-picking, gerry-rigging and interpreting 'scripture' toward kindness while rejecting outdated bronze-age morality carried to this age wrapped up in theological 'degrees of sin' as this speaker suggests. Yes, compassion and non-judgemental acceptance is key to getting to that state of recognizing the 'different'ness among us while still according equality to all humans - regardless of race, gender or sexual orientation. Walking on the eggshells of scripture interpretation is a fading project in civilization as more and more social issues can be addressed by maintaining a secular heuristic of _"increasing well-being and reducing harm for self and others"_ rather than finding, deciphering and twisting "scripture" to fit this same secular model.
To simplify your view, just view sin as rebellion as that is what it is. Rebellion against what? God’s Instated Law. So no, there *is* something wrong with cherry-picking scripture in order to interpret what *you* find to be kind & loving in this day-and-age rather than accepting it as it stands. That God has instated His Will as to what He has designed and how it should operate, and anything that deviates from said standard is a product of the Fall, a product of the introduction of rebellion within Creation. So yours or anyones attempt to be more “inclusive” of such topics is actually the acceptance of rebellion back into the conversation when Christ’s goal is the finality of said rebellion/disorder.
did find some points to fight against "Talibanic "Christians" but the message given here does not give enough push back to them in IMO and still handles the "oppressive" with kid gloves just according to my taste. but did find enough in your vid to make my arguments stronger and make a spirited defense against some who use Christianity as an excuse to practice bigotry that makes them feel better......one dose not have to water down truth to call out wrong on a side that thinks they are in the right wholly....
rawbrtaltruth3 WOW!
The problem is that Christianity continues to label homosexuality as a sin. As a straight ally with homosexual family members, I refuse to be talked down to like this. You claim to know things you couldn’t possibly know.
I wish there were someone who asked the question regarding the acceptance of slavery in the bible and if the acceptance then is the same now? If there is a discrepancy, that means that a mandate of biblical times has been abandoned and therefore causes conflict where following all mandates is concerned. This is something that people of color, especially black people of color who have same sex attraction question.
The Bible also gives historical context. These things were prevalent in history and the ones that were slaves were from whatever nation that had been conquered in battle. You might note that is was mainly middle eastern and Now European nations as well as Scandinavia. Remember people has horses and walked so no mass transit or vehicles. Also Africa was tribal and took warring tribe members as slaves. So in a fallen world GODS Devine plan is being carried out to permanently subdue and destroy sin.
I think a video should be made entitled Heterosexuality: compassion and clarity or Christianity: compassion and clarity to warn gay people about the dangers/misconceptions of both.
After 40 years in Christianity I now realise a gay person will never find peace in the Church.
homosexuality compassion is grace lead to repentance.
What have homosexuals need compassion...?
Churches need to start classes for their members on how to rightly treat homosexuals. Be you straight, gay, bi or sleep around, until we are born again, we are all hell bound. We are no better or worse than them. Liars go to hell. Gossiping is a HUGE sin. Now you can be full of hate to them, judge and condemn them but I am going to try to lead them to salvation and then let God do what He does and regenerate that person. We can't save anybody but we know who can. You are His ambassador and on that day, you will be judged on how you treat others. Jesus never said love your enemies unless...no ifs ands or buts. God bless. Your cross is tough to bear too.
Not all sins are equal. Judas suffers greater condemnation than Pilot. The only way that all sins are considered equal is that the smallest sin will force the most perfect person to come short of the glory of God.
he says very clearly that not all sins are equal. are you posying to say you agree?
You are very handsome
And therefore, because all sins are not equal ,does this mean that greater sins are worthy of greater condemnation? Like, leviticus calling for homosexuals and disobedient children to be killed?
Homosexuality - like heterosexuality and bisexuality - is a state, condition or orientation. As such,it is morally neutral. The words homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality never appear in the Bible because they were coined in 1892 by Charles Gilbert Chaddock in a translation of Richard von Krafft-Ebing's study on sexual practices
.
And this is the point: Even if one agrees that the Biblical descriptions of carnality do in fact correlate to our present-day understanding through the use of those terms, nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality itself condemned - only its practice. Nowhere in the Bible is heterosexuality itself condemned - only its practice outside of Biblical marriage.
Failure to distinguish clearly between the state of homosexuality and its acts is sloppy thinking at best and homophobic at worst.
OMG...thank you. I'm a 62 year old same sex attracted celibate man whose self-loathing has destroyed my life....and ripped my heart apart.... I spent 30 years in Exodus International trying to change my orientation. Nothing. Ever. Changed. For. Me. Or. For. Anyone. I. Knew. In. The. Program.....UGH....
@@briancarr9503 hi there go to stevephn black first stone ministries and there are 1200 that were in the program and they kept records there is a you tube video of this ' freedom realized with slides" I think you will find interesting
ACTUALLY....NOT all sins are Equal! Even in Matt 23:14 Jesus said..."you will receive the GREATER condemnation". Even as Human beings we agree killing someone is worse than smacking someone in the face. I get that Sin is sin to God..it's all crap. But it's not all the same.
he very clearly says that not all sins are equal and quotes john 19 and matthew 23 to support. you actually agree with him. so what's your point?
All sin stems from forst betrayal in the garden of Eden... What ever come s after is nothing in conparison to the ultimate betral...
Excellent video
Somebody give 47:00 a glass of water...that lip smacking must drive everyone he knows crazy.
Gay people have always existed, and will always exist. People are born gay.
Straight people and people on the cusp of same-sex attraction will tell you something different; because they cannot, nor ever will be able to understand, as it does not truly affect them.
Think about it.... only straight people say that people were not born gay (same-sex attraction is not the same as being homosexual).
Millions of people today & throughout history said they were born gay..... they have always remembered being gay from their first memories This is proof enough that God made them gay.
1. God exists
2. People are born gay because they say they are born gay.
Conclusion: God made gay people.
Just as He created roses, daisies, & carnations, He also created black, white, Hispanic, gay, straight, male, & female people.
@Thor Odinson You are terribly closed minded.. or perhaps you are closeted. It's a total waste of time & energy trying to reason with someone like you. Goodbye.
Amen!
56:00 the empty classroom...I'd go. Oh well. That being said....I don't believe that man is now attracted to women.
@paintur68
He probably has his support group so he can meat men. AHH MEN
Why is this disgusting hatred allowed on TH-cam? I guess Sean protests too much .. he needs to sort out is latent desires for men.
Just a bit of correction: Boystown is not a city. It's a neighborhood. (I lived there for a few years.)
I am just a few minutes in. But I will say this. I'm already worried. Why is it that the sin of homosexuality is the only sexual sin that we are constantly pressured to "understand"? Do we have to "understand" fornication? Do we have to "understand" adultery?
Part of the problem is because this is the only area of life where people use their sin as the entire identity! And the church has given in with terms like "sexual orientation" and that people "are homosexual" - as though it's something you simply ARE and you're born that way and that's that. We cannot give in to the world's lies on this point. I hope this talk doesn't go that route.
there is nothing to understand about fornication or adultery so these are bad examples for comparison.
I've seen your hate vomit before. You are pridefully arrogantly stupid.
2 verses that have application to people dealing with this issue personally, but are generally overlooked; the first being I Corinthians 10:13 (KJV), "There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it." What you're dealing with is "common to man." You're not weird (dare I say queer) in this regard. "...there is no new thing under the sun." (Ecclesiastes 1:9). God is faithful and will help you get through it so that "ye may be able to bear it." It may be your cross to bear.
The other is II Corinthians 12:7-10 where Paul, describing his particular problem in verse 7, goes on to say in verse 8, "For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me." Who, as a sincere Christian dealing with same sex attraction, hasn't described agonizing in prayer begging God to take this away, to "Pray Away The Gay" as they say, without success? What was God's answer? Verse 9: "And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me." Again, God is faithful, and you can get through it in His strength, not yours, to His honor and glory.
How would you feel and react if being gay was the "normal" sexual identity and you were told that "God's grace is sufficient for you"? Would you feel being handled tenderly and with compassion? A lot of gay people were not able to bear such pressure and have comitted suicide. This is not the fruit of their being gay but rather of people who offer scriptures but don't care about how a person feels.
Please deal with others as you would like to be dealt with. Thanks brother.
Lastly, the combination of religion and government is known as Theocracy. I'll give you a hint-It doesnt work. For more info simply google clerical faschism and the iranian revolution.
the Bible said we have all had the same temptations.
The Bible also said that Jesus was tempted in every way such as us (but without sin).
I guess the devil would only tempt Him with heterosexual sins so as not to offend the Christians.
Same seX love is not a sin. Never was. It never will be = Love forgives !!
This is for everyone giving a hate comment.
GROW Up! We all have rights to our opinion and it's true we shouldn't treat people like dirt just because how the act, look of etc. most of y'all are coming to attack this man just because you don't understand it. This is meant for everyone but for the ones who will listen. When you die and meet god he's gonna ask you why did you this and why didn't you listen? Your gonna be to scared to answer. I'm not trying to pick s fight with any of y'all but you need to remember what your parents told you," If you don't have anything nice to SAY( comment) THEN DONT SAY IT AT ALL!"
Victor is a nice guy :D
Just sayin that an kinda ex-otaku but anime fan is around here learning from Japanese people christians and homosexuals. To be right, you can learn from everyone even some one is not right. Just listen... and you learn :)
I can be a religious bigot as long as I'm really nice about it. Got it!
I'm waiting to see the first christian apologist make a one hour video on selling your belongings and give the money to the poor. That's what jesus demanded from his followers. While he never ever even mentioned homosexuality.
To Skip's folks, please go to Voddie Baucham, "We must Fight" , it will give you a better view of our battle plans?
Oh, Osteen is into some practices right out of black magic, you would have had to study the rites to know how deep Osteen is into teachings Jesus never taught.
💡777🎸
Homosexuality - like
heterosexuality and bisexuality - is a state, condition or orientation. As such, they are morally neutral. The words homosexuality, heterosexuality and
bisexuality never appear in the Bible because they were coined in 1892 by
Charles Gilbert Chaddock in a translation of Richard von Krafft-Ebing's study
on sexual practices.
And this is the point: Even if one agrees that the Biblical
descriptions of carnality do in fact correlate to our present-day understanding
through the use of those terms, nowhere in the Bible is homosexuality itself
condemned - only its practice. Nowhere
in the Bible is heterosexuality itself condemned - only its practice outside of
Biblical marriage.
Failure to distinguish clearly
between the state of homosexuality and its acts is sloppy thinking at best and
homophobic at worst.
There are no stupid questions, there are only stupid people.
@Thor Odinson You're right, there are also stupid answers.
So...............this guy wouldn't go to a marriage ceremony if the two people were both divorced..... What if the bride is not a virgin? The bible says such a woman must be stoned to death..... Sigh..................
I'm pretty sure that stoning those were in Leviticus or Deuteronomy. If you don't know, most those laws don't apply to Christians since Christ has fulfilled the Old Covenant and has brought the New.
Brom Ponie JESUS CHRIST IS THE FULFILLMENT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS !!!! It is so refreshing to hear TRUTH @ 100% and not sugar-coating it to keep from offending people in the world. I know it is hard for a homosexual to turn against their own fleshly desires and turn to GOD seeking to please HIM only... I can't imagine how hard that would be to deal with in this world where SEX is plastered in your face 24/7! But if GOD says it is wrong and we shouldn't do it.....thats it. No it isn't "fair" to have to deal with things daily that restricts us. It isn't fair for a person to have desires for alcohol and it be wrong. It isn't 'fair' for a person to have a sexual addiction and premarital sex be wrong. And I'm sure that there are people in the world that thinks it isn't "fair" for pedophillia to be wrong either. Most of us would never argue with that one.....but here recently, people are actually "standing up for the rights" of pedophiles!!!! People....WAKE UP! Regardless, GOD knows more than we could ever possibly comprehend. If HE says that it is wrong, it is to help us - NOT to harm us.
I wonder at which point do you start questioning authority.
Its never explained why homosexuality is wrong, were just told it is. Not good enough.
How do we know the Bible is actually the true Word of God, and not just a book? Many religions have holy books, which claim to represent the Truth. Why is the Bible the only one that is correct?
Hello @uapuat! And thank you for watching our TH-cam channel! While this is part of a massive ongoing debate here is a video with Pastor Skip interviewing Dr. Warwick Montgomery an expert on the topic! Hope this helps! th-cam.com/video/UBtwVyybX0s/w-d-xo.html
- Miguel R. Calvary Online Community Coordinator.
Great message and advice Sean from the start God Bless from Brian @ Dublin Ireland
So I can be gay but only if I'm celibate?
Tommy,
You are approaching this all wrong. The call to Christianity isn’t a call to “be gay” and obey restrictive rules, it’s a call to be something much more. We live in a culture where, at first this seems insensitive, so please let me explain what I mean by this.
We, in our western culture, define ourselves by our desires. It’s not unusual for someone to base their entire identity in a career, a marriage, a family, their possessions, or their sexual orientation. Christianity is a call to die to an old identity, whatever it is, and take up an entirely different one. God defines us by our design. If your identity is first and foremost that you are a child of God designed to have the wisdom of prophet, humility of a priest, and boldness of a king, then you will operate how you were designed to operate, which is to “Love the Lord your God will ALL your heart (emotional), soul (obedience), mind (logically), and strength (physically), and to love your neighbor equally,” which means to treat all people with an infinite value as children of God as well, not defining any person by their desires, but rather by their design. This is because humans are worth more than a list of desires.
So, I suppose your question is a category mistake. You can be whatever you want, but Christ would rather you be more than what you want to be. Christ would rather you be His bride, His friend, and His servant. You can’t be your own king and have Him as yours.
Hope this helps.
Thank you,
Sean Kerwin | Community Outreach Pastor
CALVARY CHURCH
@@CalvaryABQ, thanks for your reply. I have spent the last 21 years in active church ministry (now retired early due to significant health concerns). I do disagree with those that think that Mr. McDowell is preaching hate. But I believe the focus is wrong. You see, I am gay and I do attend a progressive LGBT church that preaches love and acceptance for our fellow man. I'm not afraid of rejection. What I'm afraid of is those that continually blast minority people, whether those of color, race or those who identify as gay, bi-sexual, transgender or lesbian or anything that does fit the typical mold of who we want people to be. I hear too often that I have to love a woman, even though I have never been attracted to women. I would basically have to lie to a woman when saying I love when that isn't the truth. You see the problem here? I can't love my partner of 11 years because the church sees it as a unfit relationship. Regardless of the fact that my partner and I have been together since high school and have never cheated on each other and have been faithful to one another and our church, the conservative church still calls me a sinner that is going to hell and it's based on who I love and who's in my life.
So with that, I say confidently, no... Being gay is not a sin. The Bible never claims it is. Let me give you a few points.
1) In the story that Romans 1 tells, Paul insists that humanity is “without excuse” (v. 20) since “what can be known about God is plain to them” (v. 19). He could not make this statement if he believed that we were born with a “fallen nature” that makes us unable to see and worship God. Rather, we are corrupted by being born into a world that has “exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four-footed animals or reptiles” (v. 23), i.e. a world awash in a sea of idolatry.
Idolatry means to “worship and serve creation rather than the Creator” (v. 25), whether our idols are actual physical statues or abstractions like money, success, patriotism, political correctness, etc. It is the idolatry of our world that prevents us from finding our joy in the beauty and comfort of God. Without the spiritual security of that divine foundation, we are handed over to “degrading passions” (v. 26).
Paul uses the visceral image of the orgy practices of Roman society to capture the degrading passions to which humanity resorts when trapped in a world of idolatry. These orgy practices include, but are not limited to, same-gendered sex. The key question is whether the same-gendered aspect of the orgy practices is itself the problem or if it’s the whole thing which includes adultery, promiscuity, etc.
The basic truth captured by Romans 1 is the way that our desires occur in a skewed frame of reference because of the omnipresence of idolatry. This is particularly true in a world where capitalism has manipulated us from birth to want what we don’t naturally want so that somebody can make money off of us. We’ve been socialized to think of identity in consumerist terms. If I buy this music, this fashion, this brand of beer, that defines who I am as a person.
This skewed frame of reference for desire is also true about our sexual socialization. Social factors like the widespread use of sex in marketing over the past several decades and the rise of the internet porn industry has left people in our culture with a very confused and unnatural sense of sexuality. When sex becomes just another consumable object like food, then it loses its power as a means of establishing spiritual intimacy between two people.
Now, sexual traditionalists would argue at this point that LGBT identity is just a fad created by the market, an unnatural desire formed by our skewed frame of reference. Plenty of scientific research suggests this is not the case. Ultimately, I take the stance that I cannot ever know and should not speculate whether someone else’s sexual identity is authentically intrinsic or an imposed socialization. I choose to respect what people say about themselves rather than rejecting any professed identity that makes my world too complicated.
So is LGBT sexuality “against nature”? Thankfully Paul provides us with a litmus test to discern what are degrading passions like those described in Romans 1:26-27, which brings me to the second major point.
2) Sin is evil because of corruption not inconformity
What’s wrong with “unnatural” desires? Is it simply that God has an arbitrary way he likes to see things done, and it’s a test of our loyalty whether we’re willing to submit? Many evangelical Christians would say that sin is sin because it violates “God’s design.” But that’s not the argument we see in Romans 1.
What happens to the people who pursue degrading passions with their bodies is that they are “filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice” (v. 29). They are “full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, craftiness.” They are “gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventers of evil, rebellious toward parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless” (v. 30).
These toxic character qualities bubble up quickly in a community built around unhealthy, addictive behaviors like promiscuous sex and drug use.
Paul gives us a very clear litmus test for whether someone’s sexuality is a degrading passion or not. If it’s a degrading passion, they will be filled with “every kind of wickedness, evil, covetousness, malice,” and every other toxic character quality in verses 29-31. That’s what happens to the community that Paul is talking about in Romans 1. The reason degrading passions are degrading is not because of their inconformity to an established norm, but because they corrupt our hearts and drag us into deeper levels of sin.
If you want to claim that Paul is talking about LGBT people in verses 26-27, then you have to be willing to say that all LGBT people exhibit the toxic character qualities in verses 29-31. Anti-gay Christian scholar Robert Gagnon is comfortable making this claim. In his reading of Romans 1, he insists that same-sex attraction itself is sinful, because it’s a result of the idolatry at the beginning of the cascade of sin. So Gagnon would say that you cannot be acceptable as a celibate LGBT Christian; you must renounce your LGBT identity altogether.
Indeed, Gagnon’s position is the one that must be taken if verses 26-27 are about LGBT identity itself rather than being about sex orgies. The idea that LGBT Christians are okay as long as they’re celibate is a biblically unjustifiable compromise made by evangelicals when it became untenable to tell LGBT people to “pray away the gay.” Gagnon emphatically rejects this compromise.
However, since I’ve met too many LGBT people, including myself, who are plainly not filled with wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice, I have concluded that Paul is not condemning LGBT identity itself in Romans 1. When I was filled with wickedness, evil, covetousness, and malice, it was an LGBT church that nurtured me back to health. Spiritual toxicity can arise in the LGBT community just like any other community. But I’ve met far too many holy LGBT people to conclude that being LGBT makes you toxic.
I do hope my comments would open up a very serious discussion about LGBT people in the church and what we call sin. To just emphatically say someone is sinning and doesn't belong a part of the church doesn't show the true love that Jesus shares for each of us. Jesus loves everyone. He didn't add anything else when he said to love your neighbor. With that.... Thanks for your time.
See this is the problem that I have with this. How would any of our lives change if we had deep deep attractions to Anison homosexuality isn’t singled out. Every sin that we have a deep desire, for we lost after our we have concupiscence for can change our lives drastically. The woke generation has made homosexuality special. It is not. It is sin.
He quotes everyone but Jesus. Why? Because Jesus never spoke out against this. Christianity is supposed to revolve around Jesus, so wouldn't his words be more important than Paul's? If it were that important, wouldn't Jesus himself have weighed in on the issue?
if every sermon needed to quote jesus, we'd never look at over half of the bible, especially the old testament. that would be dangerous. there's a lot jesus wasn't recorded discussing but i wouldn't take that to mean it isn't important (though he did discuss inequality a lot more than most churches and i think that matters a lot). jesus said he came to fulfill the law, not to replace it (matthew 5:17) so many things he didnt have to say b/c they had already been established. that includes God's idea of sexual purity.
@@Lil08103 and yet Jesus mentioned every other sexual sin but not being gay, so sorry.....being gay is not a sin, never was.
@@pastorbri jesus did not mention every other sexual sin. that is simply untrue. further, i made no specific statements about homosexuality. i responded to your assertion that all sermons should focus on quotes from jesus. that's strange since there is an entire bible from which ministers MUST preach.
@@Lil08103 I think u will find Jesus did mention every sexual sin....sorry.
@@Lil08103 So you admit to not following the leadership of god's son? And you call yourself christian why?
I can't believe there's still people who believe bronze age mythology in the 21st century.
@Sam Barker The colour of the sky and how we as a society treat our fellow humans are apples and Mount Everest. Put a little love in your heart.
@Sam Barker my point is there exist modern people that believe in things we know are absurd... noahs ark...samsons hair etc
adfasd I can’t believe there’s still people who believe Bronze Age Aristotle In the 21st Century.
adfasd I can’t believe human nature hasn’t change for the last 4,000 years. LOL!
this was filmed at my church! lol
You're lucky to own a church. Not even Jesus has one of those (at least since Gentile Christians changed the word "church" ["KEHILAH" in Hebrew, meaning "CONGREGATION"] from being a group of people into a building). The Hebrew word for "MEETING HOUSE" is "BEIT KNESSET" (or "SINAGOGA" in Greek), but because Jews met in MEETING HOUSES ("BEITEI KNESSET") and translated via Greek into English as "SYNAGOGUE" the word has been erroneously only apllied to Jews, when it is just a general term for any group of people. Thus the Gentile Church in their theological anti-Semitism wanting to distance themselves from anything that may be viewed as being "Jewish" (erroneously) started to use the word "church" ("KEHILAH"/"CONGREGATION") to describe their "MEETING HOUSES" ("SYNAGOGUES") even though there is no Biblical concept.
why is homosexuality wrong? "because god says so" is a really bad answer that sort makes you look like a drone who cant think for himself.
It's an excellent answer if God exists and considers it wrong. In fact, it's the only answer that matters if God exists and considers it wrong.
why is it an excellent answer? it basically means you are braindead and you dont understand why things are wrong.
Did you even watch the video?
You know, I was getting ready to have a conversation with you. You started off nice, I was following you, but then you felt the need to curse and be obscene so, I'm not talking to you. Have a nice day.
oh right. you are offended by words yet you worship a mass murderer. how typical.
I'm not gay, but as you can tell by by my name I'm definitely not Christian. Strangely my family is packed with intuition and prophecy. One thing not mentioned is prophecy is not only forward but backwards and hold on, sideways. The bible version that has been the gold standard for this Evangelical movement. King James came on the scene after so much blood of subjects being killed over being Catholic? So King James is on a boat and a violent storms appears and he is pissed. Once he is safely on land he commands one line to be added, do not allow a witch to live. that one line was a death sentence for over a million women. Women that had been midwives, women that used herbs to heal or sadly women who owned land and a greedy person wanted that land. Everything I wrote is true, look it up. One little change in the bible, millions of women died. Proof the bible you read has been changed. Who is to say other parts haven't been changed? Or maybe you still believe a group if women were able to command a storm? Think and research! Peace and very glad this speaker is asking for the hate to stop.
Sir, I was part of the study of the gay brain ,and we are born in a similar manner to that of hermaphrodites . It is conclusive .
It is important for people to believe that homosexuality is chosen in order to subconciously justify contempt and hatred through subjective comparison. This is the larger conversation that is not being had.
Can you please provide any further information on this?
@@christopherscheiber1439 Yes I will, hold on
@@christopherscheiber1439 Please tell me if you got the 3 or 4 articles
I think one of my questions for Sean would be why is it that Christianity tends to breed the most judgmental types of people I have ever come in contact with?
This is very interesting
The Christian god is the biggest sinner against humanity. We should rent out that venue at Nuremberg.
Sean McDowell, you are very intelligent and compassionate.
Most of what you say is accurate.
However, if you're straight,
it's very easy to say "gay people should seek forgiveness and should go straight". First of all, it's not merely same-sex attraction for most gay people. It's more of a belief that some people are born gay.
Also, even though God made male & female from the beginning, He didn't say that there couldn't be something else. The earth itself screams God's diversity with spectacular mountain ranges, speckled islands, oceans, and flowered fields.
I'm guessing that Paul was straight; therefore he couldn't fully understand the concept of homosexuality & being gay in a committed & monogamous relationship.
Which by the way, the word "homosexuality" didn't exist in Biblical days: And, Paul wasn't Infallible. Jesus had to correct the apostles, the pharisees, and others on numerous occasions.
Jesus never touched on the subject of homosexuality.
He only said "God made male & female from the beginning": But, that's obvious isn't it? Again, He didn't say there couldn't be something else apart from the obvious. Maybe, He thought that humanity would grow & mature physically & spiritually. Perhaps, one day we would we even think outside of the box. Maybe this is why Jesus left this particular directive alone. Biblical people were not ready to take on this sensitive subject.
Think about this..... that some Jews in The New Testament called Jesus blasphemous because He corrected the writers & forefathers of The Old Testament. In a sense, He was considered radical in those days.
Please read Bruce Lowe's writings "Letter to Louise: God Made Me Gay"....If you haven't already.
You are very incorrect about God not touching on homosexuality very wrong, because clearly the Adam and Eve demonstration address it, read leviticus, Roman's and Genis as well As Matthew's it is addressed
@@kgabomolele3346 yes, and leviticus also states that disobedient children should be killed.
We don't need your compassion. After being 20 years in the Evangestic Church, I've realised it's a religion like any other one. Jesus was never an Evangelistic. Jesus has found me outside the church and to serve him, I don't need to be in one. Loving Jesus and my neighbor fulfills all the law. 🇦🇷🇦🇷♥️♥️😍🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈⛪⛪😚😚😚🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷🇦🇷
Adrian dyer
1 second ago
Even though its was very calm if gays don't repent you are still going to hell,if liars ,thieves,fornicators and other sinful actions don't repent they are still going to hell ,so don't get too comfortable,people don't wanna go to hell but yet don't wanna change, if i wanna loose weight i have to change my life style ,getting up every day saying i wanna loose weight doesn't do anything MAKE THE CHANGE
Pablo, shout that profound truth out again so those in the bleachers can hear it!
This is all based on the idea that the bible is actually the word of God and not a collection of stories/myths/legends told over time, eventually written down by unknown authors in Hebrew and Greek, translated into many different versions, with books added/dropped. The bible has so many inconsistencies and contradictions and there's so much infighting into who is right and wrong about their interpretation or translation.
Christianity is practiced by 31% of the world's population. The other 69%, or approximately 5 billion people, practice another religion or none. Hell is sure gonna be crowded! The damage of continually reinforcing the belief that someone is an abomination or deviant has real consequences. You can gingerly step around the issue by saying "same sex attraction" and calling it "sin" which gives a gay person an "out" to help support your narrative of a compassionate, loving God - but the truth is - Your God was bored, created "good" and "evil" - didn't have to by the way. Then, decided he'd have fun and put us all through a little test just to see how committed we all could be to a jealous and vengeful God. If you don't pass the test - off to eternal torment. It doesn't matter how you try to twist the story - it's always going to be twisted.
Real freedom for me was letting go of religion, christianity and continual judgment by a mysterious, supposedly loving but completely silent "God". I now base my belief on evidence and science and not mythology. Man has always looked to the skies to find meaning and has constructed stories, long before the bible's existence. And man has also tried to figure out a way to control masses of people. Religion seems to fit that bill but nothing else.
The happiest moment in my life was when I left this Christian hypocrisy and found the way of Lord Buddha.
Buddha Siddharta Gautama was a man, and it's a process to attain enlightment
@Thor Odinson So sorry for you who can not overcome the Christian Delusion. Thor son of Odin. I like your pagan name, though.
@@xKoeix Buddha's way is wisdom, while Christians believe in the bloody sacrifice of a man. Buddha's salvation is his life and teachings while Christianity core is Jesus' death, based on a primitive idea of sacrificing animals to appease the gods. Everything in Christianity is pagan.
@@koymark5091 it's not delusional you just don't like it because what is right to you is wrong in according to God that's why,
@@kgabomolele3346 Slavery is right to God. I'm from Brazil and my country was the last to abolish Slavery in 1888. Slavery regulations were taken from the Bible, and millions of Africans were captured and forced to work in South America. So, according to you, you must be pro-slavery for the Bible does not condemn it. By the way, the first thing the new slaves received as soon as they arrived was the baptism and a Christian name. Slavery was seen as positive for they had become Christians and then had a chance of salvation. Mind your words, learn the History of your people.
This weak teaching on homosexuality, given 8 years ago, has aided in the rampant growth of acceptance of LGBTQ in the church. You cannot be a gay christian just as you can't be an adulterer christian. In I Cor. 6, Paul wrote "such were some of you." Repent and Christ will forgive you through the power of the grace of Christ. In Romans 1, Paul did not speak with tenderness, he spoke with power and truth. To speak frank does not mean you're unloving.