QUICK Guide to Choosing Your Class in Pathfinder 2e! (Rules Lawyer Shopping Guide)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 14 มิ.ย. 2024
- A quick overview of the 20 Pathfinder 2e classes, to narrow down your choices and learn "Why you want to be..." each class!
CORRECTION: During the Summoner portion I say that they only cast Arcane spells. Not true: depending on their choice of Eidolon, they can cast any tradition!
USEFUL VISUAL GUIDE shared on the PF2e subreddit!
/ pathfinder_class_summa...
0:00 - Introduction
1:06 - The Guide
1:26 - The Categories of Classes
2:11 - Considerations
2:35 - Archetypes (PF2e's "multiclassing")
MARTIALS
3:05 - Barbarian
3:35 - Champion
4:20 - Fighter
4:38 - Monk
5:18 - Ranger
5:45 - Gunslinger
5:56 - Swashbuckler
6:09 "NEAR-MARTIALS"
6:18 Rogue
6:41 Inventor
7:00 Investigator
7:23 CASTERS
7:57 Prepared vs. Spontaneous Casters
8:41 The 4 Magical Traditions
9:44 Bard
10:06 Cleric
10:36 Druid
10:55 Wizard
11:30 Sorcerer
12:02 Oracle
12:27 Witch
"HALF CASTERS"
13:00 Magus
13:36 Summoner
AND...
14:07 Alchemist
"Kid playing RPG" picture from Monadnock Ledger-Transcript, "The new generation embraces Dungeons and Dragons":
www.ledgertranscript.com/The-...
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LEARN PATHFINDER 2E! From The Rules Lawyer:
BEGINNER BOX Demonstration + Review: • REVIEW + DEMONSTRATION...
It's Easy to Learn! A First Combat: • Pathfinder 2nd Edition...
Character Creation - A Breakdown: • Understand Character C...
A Second Combat: • Martials and clerics a...
Tactics & Strategies to Beat Pathfinder 2e's Tough Fights, Part 1: • This Ain't D&D: Tactic...
Tactics & Strategies, Part 2: • Let's Test the "Illusi...
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I'm watching in mid Jan '23 during the OGL debacle, and you just made Pathfinder 2e sound way cooler than DND 5e.
Everything is better than 5e. Don't see what wizards corporate bs has to do with that
@@SamahLama Nothing really. I had never considered looking into Pathfinder before. The reference to the wizards corporate bs event is just an anchor point in time. I'm glad I've been learning about Pathfinder, though. I definitely want to play it.
@@DHizzle82did you get to play it? If so, how was it in comparison?
^^same question @@DHizzle82
Another important thing for someone coming from another system to know that might not be obvious is that unlike some older games you aren't forced into taking options that directly enhance your gimmick to be "optimum". In 2e you can get just as much if not more power by building for complimentary versatility.
For example, it's not uncommon for inexperienced players to go "There's so few options for archers to be good at bows." and then cite how they are only looking at options that directly use or buff bows. If you are hunter themed why not skip that feat that doubles your range increments (which isn't something you need often) and take a rogue dedication to get a bunch of skill trainings, a skill feat that can complement your goals, and Surprise Attack so you are very precise in striking from the shadows at the start of a fight (which you can usually use every fight)? Grab a skill feat to make traps for hunting and ambushing maybe? And that's just one route you can take an archer that compliments their bow use. What to be a smart archer backed up by gadgets, using rocket boots for high mobility? Doable. A magic bowman? Doable. Archer that has teamwork options with a partnered sniping spotter? Doable.
People from other systems can sometimes tunnel vision on the aforementioned thinking and make the weird conclusion "Where's all the options?" It's not limited to the infamous one that shall not be named. This very example of archer options came up recently on the reddit.
Yeah, I sometimes refer to it as a "PTSD" of sorts from experiences with other RPGs, when optimizing your ONE thing was the thing to do. Using skills developed to adapt to a situation that doesn't exist anymore.
CORRECTION: During the Summoner portion I say that they only cast Arcane spells. Not true: depending on their choice of Eidolon, they can cast in any of the 4 magical traditions!
USEFUL VISUAL GUIDE shared on the PF2e subreddit! www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/comments/u6sn3q/pathfinder_class_summaries_for_new_players_pretty/
funny enough, that picture doesn't show _any_ traditions for Summoner
Want to put a pitch out there for the Swashbuckler as a really good option for a Skill class. They have the 4th most skills trained, initially with 6 (1 from the subclass), and they get 3 extra free skill feats for their subclass skill and Acrobatics. Very useful. They don't get more skill increases like Inventor and Rogue do, so they are still maxed out at 3 legendary skills, but they are very versatile at early levels and have lots of fun toys.
I would love to see how you actually help a complete beginner making a character. Not just in theory but in practice.
I always run a oneshot with new players and then let them make their own character. They don't really know what what does and what it's for.
I either tend to overexplain/overload a person, or I try to help them too much and basically make the character for them and they don't learn anything.
Good video! I always just ask a player about martial or caster and then explain classes. Haven't thought of the skill - combat spectrum
Thanks. Because a lot of the value of different abilities in PF2e isn't apparent at first glance (ESPECIALLY if you come in with assumptions from other systems), it's far better to see how the system works before making a long-term character. So if a person is making a character for several sessions or a long campaign, I almost always recommend they see the system in action first, such as the Beginner Box or some other Level 1 one-shot (with the pregenerated characters provided by Paizo).
HOWEVER, for my class, a lot of kids (to my surprise) have preferred to make their character first, to have "something of their own" I suppose. So I go ahead and let them jump in. BUT in my class characters are not long-term: when they "level up" in my class (I plan to explain my class in a future video), they get to make a new character at a higher level.
"I would love to see how you actually help a complete beginner making a character. Not just in theory but in practice."
That would be fun actually. I'm thinking if two people want to learn, I can walk them through it on camera. Anyone interested in this (or knows someone who would be), can write me in #video-suggestions at our Discord: discord.gg/Hc54fEjM7c
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG I would submit that your guest need not be an actual beginner to get a lot of value. The conversation would be the key and if you found a good chemistry, you could to a series with that person for different classes. Just a thought from the peanut gallery.
I definitely wouldn't mind seeing quick rundowns of all the classes from you, or even in depth ones! Even more tactics videos would be great to watch too (or gm tips. i'm planning on trying my hand at gming 2e later this year)
Ya know, I thought this would be my last Class Shopping Guide. I did some very detailed profiles of the new classes that came out recently, which have been moderately successful views-wise. And the classic/original classes are kinda... not news anymore? So I dunno.
I'm thinking tho of dealing with special topics that are of particular importance to certain classes. I specifically do want to post a video on "101 underused alchemical items" lol.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG That would sound interesting! I was just thinking from the perspective of a new person who sees this and maybe was looking for a bit more specifics for the classes. Maybe even an example build for some of the classes too. But your content is great either way so i'll support whatever you put up!
I’d definitely appreciate some kind of “how to play ____” well guide. I’m playing a bard in my first game (level 1) and I feel like I’m useless lol.
@@marieking5969 oh no don't feel that way. We are currently at lvl 15 and started from lvl 1 Our bard is very important, he can support the healer (me) and give great offensive and defensive buffs. Casters have it a little harder in the beginning. Don't worry your time will come soon;)
@@philippsarnes yeah, I think it’ll get better once I get more spell slots. Right now I’m holding onto them as much as I can (I’ve mostly only cast soothe haha).
I play very casually when it comes to tabletop RPG‘s in a friend group that is much more into them than I am so I just needed to tell you that I can’t even express how much I appreciate this break down
This was great, thank you.
With all that's going on at the moment with the OGL, making in depth content on pathfinder 2e's options could be very welcome. I know I would love some help getting to grip with the game.
This was so helpful. My group is trying out pathfinder for the first time and there’s just so many options I felt overwhelmed.
Man it’s crazy how much more there is than in 5e. Thanks for the summaries!
The fact that this video is being recommended now shows that even YT has a sense of humour.
Great Class breakdown! Might try to show this to my friends and get them to finally run some sessions :)
Same here!
Love your work. If you ever get a chance I’d enjoy hearing your thoughts on familiars - it feels to me like they’re great for exploration but really need to just hide during an encounter.
as one who is not new to RPG's BUT who is new to PF (let alonen 2e), this video should be required watching for beginners! Superbly done and a GREAT resource for those about to begin their journey
Excellent description. Though I’m a little disappointed this apparently came out before the Thaumaturge was released. The Occultist class was my favorite in 1st edition, and I wanted to see a little more of how it had evolved.
Super helpful! In the wake of the WotC b/s, I'm seriously considering moving of PF2E. Love the class breakdown and some look to be a blast.
"Choose bard if you want to inspire and buff your allies. Your artistic performances aid them in combat" As a picture of a singing bard making people in a tavern throw up appears.
Yes, incredibly inspirational. LOL
Thanks for the hard work you put to your videos, which helps understand and feel the PF2e!
Love this, super helpful and super succinct.
Great video again Ronald! Next time I attempt to run a P2e game I'm DEFINITELY sending my players this.
Dang I forgot Thaumaturge wasn't out at that time
Thank you for your videos, they are very good. Easy to understand even for non native english speakers (like me) and really informative. Greetings from germany
Ich spreche Deutsch! Ich bin froh, daß es leicht für andere Leute zu verstehen ist. Ich wundere mich, warum es so ist? Benutzt du die Untertitel?
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Oh das ist ja super. Nein, die nutze ich nicht. Ich denke, es liegt daran, dass du langsam und deutlich sprichst mit wenig akzent.
Watching this in the great DND OGL crisis. Finding myself a bit disappointed that I did not look into this earlier. Seems like a fun alternative to dnd while having it's Unique feel.
Still thank you for making an easy to follow video on pathfinder classes. Makes learning a new game less difficult.
Great and helpful video. Thank you!
Great video! One small error tho, summoners can have more then just the arcane tradition.
ACK! Thanks for the correction. I'll put that correction in prominent places
thank you for making this !
Great video...I almost did watch this because your name made think you were a min/maxer. Man I was wrong I will be checking out more of videos.
so, I just woke up, and I have dyslexia. So my vision is blurry and the letters were jumbled for me. I thought the thumbnail said "quick guide to choosing your class on *Tinder*" and was like... wait... did Tinder take an entirely different approach to try and capitalize on the nerd market?
Anyway, gonna watch the video, because this is specifically what I was looking for, but still.
I used similar methods to build characters for my D&D club at school.
One of the non-intuitive things about that style of character creation is that you can't get hung up on specific terms. If someone asked to play a "wizard", I'd in my head have to translate that to "mage" and then make sure they are picking the "mage" they want to play... (usually by asking where their magic comes from).
I find that having new players pick by flavor and then finding mechanics to support that flavor is the best choice for brand new peeps since it highlights the whole experience of TTRPGs rather than just specific elements (combat, social encounters, etc). I find that helps newer players make more flushed out characters and gives them more direction for what to do.
However, if I were introducing pf2e to a 5e player I would go with a mechanics first approach like yours! If someone already knows the basics of how TTRPGs functions then I feel like the mechanics discussion will inspire their character and really push them to do cool things!
IRL I usually ask a person if they have a concept first, and might automatically narrow down their choices first from there. I tried to make the video helpful to as many people as possible, including to a person who has no character concept going in, and giving them a (very!) short "flavor" description of each class together with their key mechanic(s). IMO I think generally (a) if a person doesn't have a concept it's good to present them the mechanic, and (b) if they have a concept already it's good to give a shorter list and AGAIN give the key mechanics, because they can reskin it however they wish. Because how they interact with the game rules is via the mechanics.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG Very fair!
There is not really any single flowchart to use for these things, really depends on feel! Someone may show an interest in one mechanic but a different story or such and navigating that is what makes TRPGs so good!
love the pathfinder content!
Thank you for making this video
Great video. Will pass this along to my players. Any thoughts on when you'd do a vid for the Thaumaturge and the Psychic?
Great video!
So many classes give you friends!
I really would love to see this guy make sense of the mess CGL made of Shadowrun. Those rules need a lawyer badly.
I unfortunately have no familiarity with Shadowrun, but I'm just now starting to check out other RPGs. Reading through Dungeon World and Call of Cthulhu atm
I definitely picked my first classes based on things I couldn't do well in the other system. Magus and Ruffian.
Enjoyed. Well done.
~Fritz
I love ur content!!!
Our group has been playing 5e for a while now. We heard plenty of good things about Pathfinder and might run a PF2e one-shot in the future to test the waters. This is a really informative and understandable vid, and I'll probably send it to them once we get around to starting. I'll probably be the GM but I'd love to give Magus a go!
On that note, could you recommend any beginner-friendly one-shots or adventure modules?
Hmm not sure how I feel about the caster nerf. But I think I’d like to give this a try if I can ever find a group.
The summoner can be any of the traditions. That is based on their chosen idol on.
It should be mentioned that monk doesn't need to rely entirely on dexterity and wisdom, unlike 5e. I tried to do this with one of my first characters, but I soon found myself increasing my strength as well. Now my character can reasonably use the athletics skill, too!
Great overview. Will you be doing this for ancestries as well?
Probably not, as I'm trying to provide a useful guide to a new player here so they now how to navigate don't go down a "wrong path," and overwhelmingly their most important choice in PF2E is their Class. Also, since every Ancestry is so "broad" conceptually (i.e., doesn't have a "key mechanic"), and because it works with any variety of character concept, I don't see making one, at least not any time soon. In my class, I usually have a binder of laminated pages to show kids the artwork of each class, and that's usually enough for them to choose!
Great guide! Do you post your videos on Reddit too? This should be on the sidebar.
Thanks! I post these on the subreddit, but sure I wouldn't mind this being posted around as a resource.
Do you think you can do some Starfinder content?
There’s depressingly little of it on TH-cam
where does Kineticist fall in the classification?
So, one of my favorite characters i made was for a 3rd/3.5th ed dnd half dragon fighter/sorc/Spell Sword with Arcane Strike. She was the melee version of a glass canon, with very high damage (thanks to Arcane Strike) but light on HP due to LA and 6 levels of Sorc.
How close to replicating this could I do in Pathfinder 2e as I have wanted to do a translation of this character?
Thanks so much, that's very helpful for someone who's just getting into PF like me. A question though, why would race-class combos not be relevant to the system, don't ability boosts heavily influence a race's predisposition in a particular class?
Voluntary flaws mean that any ancestry can begin with an 18 in their Key Ability Score, even if their ancestry has a flaw in that score. And for some classes, beginning with a 16 isn't the end of the world anyway. That's why it usually isn't relevant.
There are some corner cases like Androids and Charisma classes, Sprites and melee martials, or Skeletons and healer classes/subclasses, but almost all of these are fairly minor and not too hard to build around. You'll notice also that all of those are Rare ancestries, meaning they need GM approval (likely for these exact reasons).
Okay, would the druid not be the defacto spell sword? If polymorph is still a thing, and you can still use food offensive spells.
Curious if perhaps you have any tips to help veterans find a cool concept when they are stuck?
Will you revisit this to cover the changes in the Remaster?
I've already played a bit of a campaign in 2e (as a bard, so it didn't apply to me at the time), but I wasn't aware that prepared spellcasters essentially don't use spell slots. I was planning on playing a witch with the Mosquito Witch patron but ultimately chose Ranger (bc we don't have the book that the Mosquito Witch patron is in and my group only wants to use the resources we physically have on hand for some reason even though everything is free online and literally just a Google search away, arguably faster to look up than in a book but I'm not the DM so it's not my call /salty). Honestly, now I'm glad I'm not playing the witch bc I would have been pissed to find out mid-game that my spell slots don't work the way I thought they did and no one saw fit to tell me.
I really want to like this system bc my friends seem to prefer it, but the more I learn about it the less I like it compared to 5e. And I think the fact that you can't break up your movement is dumb too.
being able to break up your movement is a powerful ability. there are ways to get abilities that combine movement with attacks, the way of the triggerbrand for the gunslinger for example, where you gain triggerbrand blitz at level 14, which costs three actions and allows you to do one full stride, and three attacks along that stride, with map only being applied after all the attacks are made.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed are kings. Breaking up movement is a powerful feature because, in this system, you normally aren't able to do that.
That does not, however, mean that being unable to break up movement is a feature of the system. It is simply the lack of one.
Well I certainly have no idea why the algorithm would recommend to me, a dude laughing at WotC being greedy, this much nicer alternative than dealing with WotC. Praise the Omnisiah
Is there no Shifter Class like there is in WOTR? in WOTR there is a druid who can shift, but there is also a dedicated Shifter Class.
Good video for getting an idea of what's what. Is there a magic item specialist class, or something of the sort? I'm not interested in personal power I wanna use gear!
Talisman Dabbler archetype!
Also, the thaumaturge has feats that let them branch out into a whole bunch of different magic items and gear. I remember there being gadgets and scrolls.
Inventor is excellent at crafting if MAKING stuff is your shtick.
@@TheRulesLawyerRPG I'm not so much about crafting as I am using magical loot and consumables I find in dungeons - talisman dabbler sounds like it might be a fun time, thanks!
Saving for myself: Swashbuckler, Magus, Rogue, Witch
How can we not have a Lawyer class? That can make cease and desist letters with 2 actions and remove 1 action from all creatures that fall within the clause?
Would it be relevant with a Remaster of this vid after Player Core 2?
9:34
>Sorcerers, Witches, Summoners in all four categories
I feel like there should be a better way to present this information. Like Stating the Categories then the classes exclusively in those categories. Then stating Sorcerers, Witches and Summoners can be any of these / are a mix of these categories, Depending on which additional choices you make during character creation
The exclusive class help define the category while giving an atypical example of a magic user in that category
I once made a Half Dragon character back in 3rd/3.5th ed and I often wondered about doing a Natural Atrack build off of that. A Hald Dragon Fighter with multi-attack and Improved Natural Atrack on Claw and Bite would do 3 base atracks on full bab, full bab and -2 bab that were 1d6, 1d6 and 1d8. But the inability to make Natural atracks magical made such a build impossible at mid/high levels. Could something like this be viable in Pathfinder 2e? Do Half-Dragons exist in Pathfinder? If so. Can one enhance ones Natural attacks? Can Natural atracks be used with a Monk build and flurry of blows?
there are no official half-dragons, kobolds are probably the closest we'll get to official dragonkin, though roll for combat has made "battlezoo ancestries: dragons", which allows you to play dragons. natural weapons are unarmed strikes, and so all synergize with monk. most of the weapon scaling in this game comes from runes, which can be applied to unarmed strikes via handwraps of mighty blows, which actually applies to all unarmed strikes, including the kitsunes ranged foxfire.
Heavenly Cactus... omg...
Question: Shouldn't Swashbuckler also appear under Skilled if Ranger appears there?
Regarding the reddit visual guide: some of their analysis is odd to me. The Rogue being ranked much higher damage wise than the Swashbuckler (since we on the subject of Swashbucklers) seems odd. They seem comparable? And the Swashbuckler certainly seems much more defensive, but is barely given a peep more. Clearly this is an opinion thing, but I worry about showing new players something like that and them thinking one class in inferior to another on what seems largely a biased opinion.
Wait a minute did you teach at MLK in Berkeley? I think you taught the club at my school!
Lol we have had two parties with zero casters coming from dnd where we had to argue who played the marshel
👏👏👏
So I'm kind of curious... I get a sense that the Witch is roughly equivalent to the Warlock in D&D 5e. Am I right in that assessment?
depends on what warlock means to you. in pf2e their main thing is having the best familiars and access to a lot of unique focus spells.
@@captaincrash9002, I mean, I don't see Eldritch Blast, Invocations, or any Pact Boon features, that doesn't mean that there aren't any similarities. Focus Points also seem to be very reminiscent of Pact Magic Slots.
If anything, they kind of look like a weaker version of the Warlock from 5e. Am I missing something?
@@simondiamond9628 a lot of their power is in their infinitely respawning familiar. There is nothing akin to pact boons or invocations for them. They can get lessons that each give them an additional focus spell.
Focus spells are similar to pact casting. You start with a pool of 1 point when you get your first focus spell, but only increase that pool when getting a feature that prompts you to. The maximum size for your focus pool is 3. You can refocus for 10 minutes to regain 1 focus point, but only if you've used a focus point since the last time you've refocused (some class features can increase that limit). Focus spells are unique to each class with the exception of domain spells, which clerics, champions and oracles all have equal access to. All casters get focus spells, and some martials also get some.
Witches are still full prepared casters though (with one less slot per level than a wizard), and their patron decides their spellcasting tradition, so they can be arcane, divine, occult or primal.
The patrons give you basically nothing, one granted spell, one focus spell and one skill proficiency. No class feats are dependent on specific patrons. And patrons don't give special familiar abilities.
Thaumaturge?
Well contrary to the intro, I feel like 2E is extremely restrictive compared to first edition. It channels you into specific choices when you create your character, with options really opening when you level up (and even then, when you compare stuff like the fighter, it's night and day).
But anyway, thanks for the informative video.
sigh here we go
hmm what class I know I'll just ask. I wanna grapple like full professional wrestling I'm gonna throw you around until I win. what class?
any strength martial you want with wrestler archetype.
Wait, casters aren't op in this?
This video made me realize how many of the iconics have white hair...
So what I'm getting is that Pathfinder is taking the piss on spellcasters?
Welp. Guess there're no TTRPGs outside of DnD.
Wait... Elf Tiefling ?
Yep. Heritages with supernatural origins like Tiefling, Aasimar, Changeling, etc... can be applied to any ancestry. You could even apply Half-elf or Half-orc to nonhuman ancestries if the GM allows it, though it isn't rules-as-written.
@@flaminyawn I reading that right Know, thats awesome ^^ !!!
Comment
about 67489435 new classes have been added since this vid.... lol
Oh great... so I'm back to being in high school and never touching 90% of the spell caster classes because they're all prepared spell casters and prepared spell casting is needlessly restrictive, overly complicated, and punishing if you don't accurately anticipate what craziness is going to happen during a given session. I thought we learned this lesson 20 years ago!
there are 5 prepared caster classes in pf2e and 5 spontaneous caster classes. there is a class archetype called flexible spellcasting that turns prepared casters into spontaneous casters.
Thats why there are both prepared and spontaneous casters? some people *love* the fantasy of having to think ahead and prepare a "toolbox". Spontaneous is great for a more hairbrained character, but I love the feeling of playing a wizard and seeing preparing meticulously for the coming conflicts and seeing that I can cast each and every spell I've prepared
I /really/ wish it didn't feel like us casters were turned into 'basically just side characters'.
WotC's 2023 nonsense across multiple IPs brought me here
RP is more important than tactical mechanics when choosing a class
Let's face it, the Summoner is the magical GF class.
Strange way to spell "the JoJo reference class" but OK
@@Akabeche good point
@@Akabeche I didnt know S-U-M-M-O-N-E-R spelled monk :P
If you need a 15 minutes video to help you choose a class then the game is too complex and crunchy.
P2e is like going back and buying a buncha dnd5e books....why spend the money? Why break what was fixed....woke is a joke.
Real question: What on earth are you talking about?
DnD 3.5 was refined with P1e....then dnd had 4th (shh dotn talk abotu it) and then 5th edition.....in a reverse role p2e is like 5th edition....not needed and fluff. Everything good about p2e could have been added into p1e without needing to BUY all the new books...new gm guide....ne player guide....its a cash grab
@@archaeopteryxish