SO glad you are teaching not to amend the soil around trees. For years, and in all the old books it says to amend the soil when you plant a tree - well that is why the roots would ball up in that amended soil nd then get easily blown over 11-20 years later-- whole bunches of nice trees that give good shade and looking healthy with small rootballs falling over in a strong wind - sometimes all along the same street because they were all planted at the same time, so they lost them all at once. I remember being taught this in my landscape architecture classes 20 years ago, but because the old method is in so many books, it is hard to change. Didn't know about not packing in the soil either. Never heard that one before. Good to know- we are just starting our journey- creating the infrastructure right now to hold the water.
Awesome! Really cool video that one. I also may be biased but I think my nieces are so wonderful. Julia always cracks me up in the videos. She's so shy but let's Jen as her questions. She has a small learning disability, but boy does she ever love the horses. Both of them, if I need an hour to fill, I just ask them a question about the horses and sit back and listen and watch their passion come flowing out of them. They are horse crazy! 🐎
Perfect timing. I just planted my first four jerusalam artichoke tubers Saturday and I'm planting my first two pawpaw sapplings today. Baby permaculture beginnings! Yay!
Oh no, I've been doing it wrong my whole life by just putting the seed in soil... There's no such thing as planted too much food. I'm so excited to see how the new addition matures. It's going to look great!
There is an amazing park in Ashland California called Lithia park. The man who landscaped it many years ago (I forget his name) brought plants from around the world and many said they would never survive the climate. But most did survive and now it's spectacular.
Indeed! This is why it's taking me so long to plant this property out! But it works so well. My established areas are bulletproof. (At the risk of jinxing it!)
One can never plant too much! I absolutely live the food forest and I'm looking forward to see it grow (and get planted even more) season after season.
Francis, Me too!!! Well not everybody, but most people believe I’ll be digging it all out due to needing to spray a lot (they know me well enough to realize that I will not be using sprays for pests and diseases). They also thought I couldn’t create a no-dig garden on my new-to-me property. I mulched with cardboard and chips and planted it right in the grass. It’s beautiful and growing strong 😻 Maybe I will be an example of what can be done with growing food. I hope so because this is the most fun I’ve had in a long time (except for tent camping all summer…..that’s an amazing experience too), and they can have fun too. Excuse my rambling. I get carried away. I need fellow food forest people here in my area. I know they exist 😄
Glad you got some Jujubes, hopefully they make it through your winters. Ours have been doing great, they're entirely pest free here (except maybe some nibbling on the lower branches by rabbits). They leaf out in May for us (usually around or after our last freeze date) and seem to happily grow with benign neglect. This is the first year both of our trees have bloomed, so we'll see if we get fruit. FWIW you might have to look at more of the early ripening varieties if you want the 'dried on the tree' date-like consistency. If you like them crunchier, you probably have a much wider choice on variety. I'm definitely planning on adding several more trees.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I'm really hopeful with growing Jujubes. Our 2nd / 3rd year trees are so trouble free, it's hard not to recommend them. So far, the trees have branched a little bit without any pruning, but are growing fairly upright. I can't quite tell if they're going to be very columnar / upright or not. They can be a little tricky to prune - they don't behave the same way as an apple or plum. You have to make two cuts to wake up a dormant bud per: aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_h/H337.pdf
you could dry the excess mushrooms to enjoy them in the winter! just soak dried mushrooms in water for a while before using. Perfect for stew and soups where they'll have time to soak and soften and spread their flavour.
Indeed, I've been making mushroom powder to add to soups. My family doesn't like mushrooms but it's a miracle whenever I make a soup or sauce and add them in it, they say it's their favorite soup/sauce.
Lovely vid Keith! So nice to see your update on your Chicago Hardy fig. So encouraging to see it is possible to plant them in ground, as you mentioned and showed that if the roots develop well, there is new growth possible! I purchased 2 plants and placed one in ground, and one in a pot, to overwinter in garage. Am in zone 5, and this will be my experiment 😊
You can grow a pineapple in Canada. You just have to bring it inside September to June. I even have a mango starting for my neighbor who has a tropical-ish container garden, which she brings inside every year.
Oh yeah, I mean technically you can grow anything you want, if you want to bring it in/out. For the pineapples though, I think you can grow the tree but not get any fruit, because they need a certain amount of consistent days with Sun, and UV lights won't work. I've just heard that from others, and can't verify it though.
Great tour & info, thank you💫 I just planted sea buckthorn & gojiberry as a hedge in my front yard on a town lot. They’re small & I’ll have to wrap them to survive our Alberta zone 2-3 winter. Wish me luck!
Oh, the tree stakes on either side in the ground would be to keep the tree from losing height when the ground settles around it. I always thought it was to keep it from tipping over in the wind or so humans wouldn't run directly into the suddenly new tree, which is more common than one would think, as ninety percent of all newly planted saplings are damaged by texting-and-walking~
Never knew that about planting the graft nub to the North, I've always done the total opposite, definitely have some diseases on my fruit trees but, at least none dead so far. I will try that next time. Thanks for the info!
Oh geeze! I did everything wrong with my bare rooted trees. I didn't pay attention to which direction the graft is; I put the grass layer upside down in the bottom of the hole and added compost for an amendment and I gently compacted the roots (it was gentle because I didn't want to hurt the roots). But I did water it in really well, then I mulched with wood chips
And the funny thing is, your tree should do just fine. All these tips will help, but I've seen trees planted in open lawns, no mulch, or mulch volcanoes, and they do okay. Maybe they would be 20% more productive if done properly, or maybe they die 5 years earlier, but even a poorly planted tree will give you tremendous value over its lifetime.
What sheet-mulched grass looks like after 6 weeks is highly variable. You're possibly showing a best case scenario. For example, infertile, dry/rocky old-field soil will take the whole season (or longer in droughty conditions) to come around...but sooner or later it will, so don't let that stop anyone! Many of the tree holes I dig bring up a few shovelfuls of dusty soil and a pile of rocks, but tree roots ultimately find a way to grow under cover of cardboard/woodchips.
Yes for sure. And in the rainforest, you wouldn't even have grass, it would probably already be all gone. Higher temps and more water equals faster decomposition. If either of those aren't there, it can slow down tremendously.
According toDr Elaine Ingham and the soil food web, a plant cant physically run out of nutrients because everything a plant needs is in sand/silt/clay and no soil on earth has too little sand/silt/clay. What soil does not have enough of is bacteria and fungi which digest the sand/silt/clay into nutrients and feed the roots. Its all about the soil life.
Exactly. Check out my microbiology guide as it would be very interesting to you if you haven't seen it yet. I discuss this exact thing! Great comment 👍
Definitely! This is something I've been doing in a more extreme way as each year goes by. It's always solvable by pulling soil back (as long as it isn't something extreme like a foot too deep). However I think if you can go about 2 or 3 inches higher at initial planting, that's the best way.
Some of the first bare root fruit trees I planted are probably planted a little too deep, as I didn't take into account how much mulch I'd be using (or some minor settling of the soil). I've left those trees a little bit of a bowl as to keep the mulch off the trunk (also helps with watering with rainwater). Most of the trees I've planted recently are pretty close to perfect with the root flare just below the soil level. I usually will pull the mulch back a couple of inches away from the trunk. One of the trees that I have a graft union just barely above the soil level is on a EMLA-111 rootstock (per several warnings that the depth is critical). Might be related to burr knot formation. One thing that I think I'm pretty good about is being absolutely uncompromising with the pruning of roots on bare root trees. You really don't any of the main roots to be crossed. I've also never had any issues with tipping the bigger roots if they're too unruly (too hard to get them to lie in a radial direction). I like your comment about using a large pot to hold soil. I've had issues with mail-order nurseries sending trees while our ground is still frozen. My solution? Pre-dig all the holes in the fall, put the dirt a pot (15 gallon or larger) and put the pot in the hole (so it's not a hazard). You can then plant the trees in record time in late winter / early spring. :)
Haha that's a nice idea about pre-digging. I also completely agree with not being shy about "fixing the roots" before planting. I think that's a lesson that isn't learned until 3-4 years later when a tree just randomly dies and you have no idea why. It probably had really poor root structure and was doomed to strangle itself out from day 1.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I'm sure I still have many lessons to learn (usually the hard way). I have 5 fruit trees that I planted in "gopher baskets" (chickenwire) out of an abundance of caution, but I haven't seen a gopher yet. Well, it turns out that these baskets may take their sweet time rusting and falling apart in our alkaline soil. I'm going to replace one of the 3rd year trees now and see what it looks like, but I might have some entirely girdled trees in 5-8 years. Whoops! At least I'll have a better idea of what varieties to try by then and will get the planting depth perfect.
Hi Keith. Thanks for all of the info, I just finished The Soil and Health-a very fascinating book. Question.-When using manure to make compost, It seems like the widespread use of antibiotics in animals would have a negative impact on soil biota. The book was written before the age of antibiotics so how do you navigate around the antibiotic problem in manure when making compost?
I know where my manure comes from. Previously it was a neighbour who I trusted. Now it's from my sister who I also obviously trust. I also know where they source their hay, and I've talked to that guy and he doesn't spray his fields. It's all about finding out where you are getting the product from and talking to those people.
A lovely update, thank you. The rockery area is starting to look so established. What are the little ground-hugging purple flowers there? I love how they meld with the rocks and also when they're growing next to the fresh green ferns. Really pretty.
Around here we can't take organic matter in the soil for granted. It took me 3 (!!!) years of heavy woodchip mulching before I saw my first earthworm. Insane, right? So, I do add a little bit of organic matter to the planting hole (probably 15-20% at most). If I've got a clump of clay, I'll usually mix in some sand from elsewhere in the yard or rice hulls to loosen up the soil texture. For native plants, I'll just ensure that the soil has adequate drainage.
Hi! I have just started watching your videos and really enjoy them. I live in Florida so very few of the plants will work for me but I'm getting a lot of other useful info. One question though: are there swales in your food forest? As you were walking through I didn't see them (except where the paw paws were). Maybe there's another video that shows the swales and water harvesting.
Indeed, I have an entire series on swales. If you search "swale" on my channel you will find a bunch. I also have several "water guides" which focus heavily on using earthworks to maximize your advantages. Also my latest video on how to amend soils in back to Eden method, it talks about water and swales at the end.
Hi! I'm new to the channel and I absolutely love it. I'm starting my first home orchard using the deep woodchip mulch method in late winter. I have only added compost to the area this year so my ground is mostly jory clay but not crazy heavy.. I got results with a ph of 4 with an organic matter buffer bringing it to 5.5 ish. Would you suggest I lime with calcitic lime into the top 6 inches of the planting hole? I'm not sure if I should amend with lime or just trust that with additional chips and permaculture methods will allow nutrients to be more accessible over time. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!
Hmmm that's super low. You could. You could also add some wood ash. Also definitely look into growing blueberries and cranberries, they will love that pH.
@Canadian Permaculture Legacy Thanks! I know it probably seems like a no-brainer, but I haven't heard many permaculture folk mention or discuss lime in their methods . Wasn't sure if it's something that was frequently used in these systems. This is my first home garden ever, and I'm kinda jumping in with both feet! I will definitely look into some acid loving plants as well. Your soil science and planting videos are so helpful and easy to follow. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge!
I'm not really a fan of adding artificial amendments to the soil - for a few reasons, but the least of which isn't cost and work. I'd rather take time and just chop and drop and mulch and create natural pH buffers, and then focus on plants that work well in the native conditions. However if lime helps in the short term you can try it out, a pH of 4 is really low. If it was me though, I'd just plant stuff that loves acid soils instead of trying to change the pH of the native soil.
Watching this I just realized I planted my trees in autumn at graft union height, not root flare height, good to know. Should I dig them up and raise them in early spring? They have only been in soil for 3 months so it shouldn't hurt them too much, I think.
if it's only been 3 months sure, should be okay. The other option of course is pulling back soil around the tree, but that can create pooling of water (and ice freezing). If your tree is on a bit of a slope and one side would still allow for draining you could try that instead.
Thanks for another inspiring video. I've never heard the bit about not amending the soil when planting trees. I just planted a bunch in a new area which had some very hard, dry ground and added a fair amount of rich, dark soil into each hole. Will they eventually spread out or do you think that initial amendment will set them back them for life? Anything to be done after the fact?
I think for my strategy to work, there needs to be somewhat decent soil. Not great soil but not compete garbage soil. What nature does is move a bunch of pioneer weeds for a decade or more, and build organic matter and mulch layers after years of end of season die backs. So anyone can do the same thing with enough time. Just drop organic matter onto the soil and let it decompose. Then there is SOME nutrient in the topsoil and trees won't need amendments. But if the soil is super depleted and dead, then planting it without amending it may just be an effort in futility. Like all things, the answer is: it depends.
Spring for 2 reasons. First, it's never good to prune before winter. A prune is a fresh open wound on the tree, and it needs time to callous and heal. Similar to how we make a scab, a tree compartmentalizes and seals off its wounds. Secondly, there's always a chance of a mild winter that the above growth may survive. If you can get several of those in a row the tree will get hardier and hardier.
any suggestions for planting trees in clay soil if you just got a tree and haven't had time to treat it with woodchips 1st? i mostly add soil and plant it above the clay soil.
It's all about adding organic material and getting the life back into the soil. They then break it down more. But it takes time. Bark, sawdust, manure, leaf mold, compost and peat moss are commonly added to clay soils to help boost the organic content.
Curious where you got your pawpaws, I see only one site with them for sale which claim to be from Canada and are cold hardy, but they want $125 each :O I'd love to find a cold hardy variety to try and cultivate in the Yukon (with shelter)
I understand the root flair and ground/soil levels for initial planting, BUT.....do you pay attention to where the graft and mulch levels are relative to each other?....it seems sometimes that's a shorter distance than the mulch depth I would like and I am hung up on keeping the graft above the mulch Any thoughts?
Keep roughly 3-4 inches around the tree bare soil. This helps prevent issues with the graft union but also keeps boring insects from having an easy pathway through the mulch into the tree. As the trees get bigger you can extend the "bare soil" area around the tree to 5, 8 even 12 inches.
so if i have new lawn i rather plant trees first and sheet mulch around ? or is this his the same as if I would plant in freshly mulched pasture like yours ? do i plant the height you mentioned on the ground level original soil or top of mulch ? It could be 10 inch difference ?
Ideal method is sheet mulching 1-2 years in advance. That being said I only did that in a few places... I was too excited to plant. Next best method is plant trees and sheet mulch around. You plant to the top of soil level. Mulch can be higher, as it will break down and reduce in height dramatically. If you are going 10 inches deep mulch, maybe plant 2-3 inches above soil level. Trees tend to sink a bit as the soil settles, so it will help the tree get too deep beneath the mulch.
Do you have a solution that will keep killing the grass if it comes up thru the sheet mulch and what do you think of the Ellen White method of planting trees?
I don't like amending in the tree holes no. I much prefer Mark Shephards method. I think the Ellen White method works really well for a few years until the tree runs out of perfect amended soils, then they struggle in their first drought they need to experience.
I just planted two relatively large "potted" apple trees in the Sudbury Area! The nursery gave me bonemeal and insisted it be used. For further trees I will try and get exposed root trees. If there anything I can do to help out these apple tree roots to spread beyond their original potted jail?
The best thing you could do is to start mulching their planting locations as far in advance as possible. Other than that, I think people put too much attention on getting trees growing quickly. It kind of speaks to human impatience. Sometimes doing things a bit slower and more naturally can lead to a much stronger tree in the longterm.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thanks for the reply. Really appreciate the videos and engagement. Grew up on a farm and we had a small orchard. Everything in neat rows. Your approach is being passed on to my kids already as I tell my 2 year old to "feed his worms" with all the scraps and cuttings in our growing compost pile. Keep up the great work 🇨🇦🤓
No deadline, one I get about 8 of them or so I will compile part 1 and post it. I will do another one if I get more, etc. So anytime is fine, but there's also no rush.
It just dawned on me that none of your trees have any trunk protection. (other than the one example that Lucy destroyed, ironically) Do you find that wrapping the trunks or painting them, or putting tree guards around them just isn't necessary most of the time, or do you lose a lot of trees and are just ok with it?
I do have some, but I'll usually put them on in late fall. I've read that the trunks really want the sun to hit them, so I usually pull them off in the spring.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Ah, gotcha. Just seeing it on that one tree in this video made me realize I never see any on your trees. That makes sense, though. I wrap my younger trees in the fall, too.
Can you sell mail order seeds internationally? It's really hard to find trustworthy seed suppliers for all these weird plants to get actually winter hardy open pollinated lineages. I live in ~zone 4 with harsh winters (down to -40*C and over a meter of snow) but on south facing a hillside with plenty of springs keeping the soil both watered in dry summers and warm in winter under a thick blanket of snow (last winter I dug in the snow and when I got to the grass it was green and steaming even though it was -25*C out). I'm feeling ambitious and adventurous and want to try weird things like pawpaws and hardy figs, but buying seeds from ebay or something is alwayts a gamble...
I don't think so, and from talking to others that do it, it sounds like the last thing I need in my life. Tons of hassle. Stuff going missing in the mail. Stuff turned back at borders. Customers refusing to pay for duty taxes. Stuff going bad in the mail and having to deal with refunds. I have a very busy life right now, and that's not something I need to be dealing with. I do sell things to people, but only if they can come pick them up. Super sorry, it's just not something I want in my life.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy totally understandable, I will just keep gambling and buying the same things from several sources and hope I get some that survive up here :) It's not like seeds are usually expensive.
I usually plant in spring so no need. I like to plant when the season makes sense. We get a ton of rain in the spring. However I would probably water daily if we got no rain. Do that for the first week. Then move on every other day with a deeper soak. Then move to once a week with a very deep soak. Then stop watering. That would be my progression through the first growing season.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I did a really deep soak immediately after planting. I haven’t watered them since, which is about a week now, and it’s only lightly rained since then. I guess I need to water them more regularly. My fig tree looks dead and I’m not sure if that’s because I fucked up or because of the cold and I planted too soon lol
Is the fig brand new? I would say you likely planted too early. It may rebound though. Often when I think things died, they were just stunned and they recovered.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy yes brand new. The thing is the soul is still quite moist under the surface so I put off watering. Why does it need water if it’s moist?? But everyone is telling me to water it very often.
It's fine, definitely leave it. Maybe in the spring, sprinkle some manure or compost in a larger area around it to encourage roots to go seeking it out. Just right on top is fine.
It depends on the variety for persimmons. You'd have to get your variety then look it up. Some are self-fertile, some are not. For example, Nikita persimmon is self fertile.
I totally agree, but I do slightly worry how I'm going to deal with all this food in 10 years when each tree is DUMPING it down on the ground. I'll need to hire pickers I think.
I usually try to pull back a few inches around each tree. I'm not always great about it though. When you can, definitely keep the root flare exposed and mulch off the trunk
I usually try to pull back a few inches around each tree. I'm not always great about it though. When you can, definitely keep the root flare exposed and mulch off the trunk
SO glad you are teaching not to amend the soil around trees. For years, and in all the old books it says to amend the soil when you plant a tree - well that is why the roots would ball up in that amended soil nd then get easily blown over 11-20 years later-- whole bunches of nice trees that give good shade and looking healthy with small rootballs falling over in a strong wind - sometimes all along the same street because they were all planted at the same time, so they lost them all at once. I remember being taught this in my landscape architecture classes 20 years ago, but because the old method is in so many books, it is hard to change.
Didn't know about not packing in the soil either. Never heard that one before. Good to know- we are just starting our journey- creating the infrastructure right now to hold the water.
I could walk through a garden such as yours and never get tired of looking at all the variety and be in awe.
The crazy part is how much it changes as time goes by. Even just as the week goes by it changes.
You say you may have planted too much… it’s never too much it’s beautiful
Thanks for the inspiration my friend!
Have to say . Love your sister’s channel. Watched a colt be born. WOW
Awesome! Really cool video that one. I also may be biased but I think my nieces are so wonderful. Julia always cracks me up in the videos. She's so shy but let's Jen as her questions. She has a small learning disability, but boy does she ever love the horses. Both of them, if I need an hour to fill, I just ask them a question about the horses and sit back and listen and watch their passion come flowing out of them. They are horse crazy! 🐎
Perfect timing. I just planted my first four jerusalam artichoke tubers Saturday and I'm planting my first two pawpaw sapplings today. Baby permaculture beginnings! Yay!
That's where we all started! I'm excited for you Jess
Oh no, I've been doing it wrong my whole life by just putting the seed in soil...
There's no such thing as planted too much food.
I'm so excited to see how the new addition matures. It's going to look great!
Seed is definitely the #1 best way!
There is an amazing park in Ashland California called Lithia park. The man who landscaped it many years ago (I forget his name) brought plants from around the world and many said they would never survive the climate. But most did survive and now it's spectacular.
Thank you
I love watching you plant densely like this. It makes me realise how much more planting I can still do!
Indeed! This is why it's taking me so long to plant this property out! But it works so well. My established areas are bulletproof. (At the risk of jinxing it!)
Yay, more trees! Your place is going to look stunning in a couple years. It already looks pretty awesome
Thanks so much! I added SO MUCH this year. It's been so fun. Tiring but fun.
One can never plant too much!
I absolutely live the food forest and I'm looking forward to see it grow (and get planted even more) season after season.
Thanks Jurie
Everybody looks at me like I'm crazy when I tell them I'm planting a forest. They will see in 20 years.
You are my people.
Francis,
Me too!!! Well not everybody, but most people believe I’ll be digging it all out due to needing to spray a lot (they know me well enough to realize that I will not be using sprays for pests and diseases).
They also thought I couldn’t create a no-dig garden on my new-to-me property. I mulched with cardboard and chips and planted it right in the grass. It’s beautiful and growing strong 😻
Maybe I will be an example of what can be done with growing food. I hope so because this is the most fun I’ve had in a long time (except for tent camping all summer…..that’s an amazing experience too), and they can have fun too.
Excuse my rambling. I get carried away. I need fellow food forest people here in my area. I know they exist 😄
They will see even sooner! Hopefully!
Incredible. It's enjoyable seeing all the different areas and biodiversity you have cultivated.
Glad you got some Jujubes, hopefully they make it through your winters. Ours have been doing great, they're entirely pest free here (except maybe some nibbling on the lower branches by rabbits). They leaf out in May for us (usually around or after our last freeze date) and seem to happily grow with benign neglect. This is the first year both of our trees have bloomed, so we'll see if we get fruit. FWIW you might have to look at more of the early ripening varieties if you want the 'dried on the tree' date-like consistency. If you like them crunchier, you probably have a much wider choice on variety. I'm definitely planning on adding several more trees.
Awesome thanks for the tips. Always nice to learn from someone slightly further ahead than you are.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I'm really hopeful with growing Jujubes. Our 2nd / 3rd year trees are so trouble free, it's hard not to recommend them. So far, the trees have branched a little bit without any pruning, but are growing fairly upright. I can't quite tell if they're going to be very columnar / upright or not. They can be a little tricky to prune - they don't behave the same way as an apple or plum. You have to make two cuts to wake up a dormant bud per: aces.nmsu.edu/pubs/_h/H337.pdf
Your comments are always so appreciated but this one especially is super useful! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with me.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Glad I can help! Just think of it as being in appreciation of your excellent content 🤘😎🤘
Love this video and super love your food forest 💚
Thanks for the inspiration!!!
the thermal mass is the ticket! i have over wintered many plants that would not normally survive by using very large stones as allies
you could dry the excess mushrooms to enjoy them in the winter!
just soak dried mushrooms in water for a while before using.
Perfect for stew and soups where they'll have time to soak and soften and spread their flavour.
Indeed, I've been making mushroom powder to add to soups. My family doesn't like mushrooms but it's a miracle whenever I make a soup or sauce and add them in it, they say it's their favorite soup/sauce.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy LOL. Sounds like my kids.
Lovely vid Keith! So nice to see your update on your Chicago Hardy fig. So encouraging to see it is possible to plant them in ground, as you mentioned and showed that if the roots develop well, there is new growth possible! I purchased 2 plants and placed one in ground, and one in a pot, to overwinter in garage. Am in zone 5, and this will be my experiment 😊
Fingers crossed!
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy thanks!🙏
You can grow a pineapple in Canada. You just have to bring it inside September to June. I even have a mango starting for my neighbor who has a tropical-ish container garden, which she brings inside every year.
Oh yeah, I mean technically you can grow anything you want, if you want to bring it in/out. For the pineapples though, I think you can grow the tree but not get any fruit, because they need a certain amount of consistent days with Sun, and UV lights won't work. I've just heard that from others, and can't verify it though.
Beautiful
Very informative and nice video as well
Great tour & info, thank you💫 I just planted sea buckthorn & gojiberry as a hedge in my front yard on a town lot. They’re small & I’ll have to wrap them to survive our Alberta zone 2-3 winter. Wish me luck!
Good luck! Make sure to check out Verge Permaculture as they are in your area.
Looks great!!
Oh, the tree stakes on either side in the ground would be to keep the tree from losing height when the ground settles around it. I always thought it was to keep it from tipping over in the wind or so humans wouldn't run directly into the suddenly new tree, which is more common than one would think, as ninety percent of all newly planted saplings are damaged by texting-and-walking~
Never knew that about planting the graft nub to the North, I've always done the total opposite, definitely have some diseases on my fruit trees but, at least none dead so far. I will try that next time. Thanks for the info!
Так выглядит рай! Спасибо за ваши видео!
Большое спасибо. Вы очень добры. Когда-нибудь это место станет райским садом.
Great Video!!!
Oh geeze! I did everything wrong with my bare rooted trees. I didn't pay attention to which direction the graft is; I put the grass layer upside down in the bottom of the hole and added compost for an amendment and I gently compacted the roots (it was gentle because I didn't want to hurt the roots). But I did water it in really well, then I mulched with wood chips
And the funny thing is, your tree should do just fine. All these tips will help, but I've seen trees planted in open lawns, no mulch, or mulch volcanoes, and they do okay. Maybe they would be 20% more productive if done properly, or maybe they die 5 years earlier, but even a poorly planted tree will give you tremendous value over its lifetime.
What sheet-mulched grass looks like after 6 weeks is highly variable. You're possibly showing a best case scenario. For example, infertile, dry/rocky old-field soil will take the whole season (or longer in droughty conditions) to come around...but sooner or later it will, so don't let that stop anyone! Many of the tree holes I dig bring up a few shovelfuls of dusty soil and a pile of rocks, but tree roots ultimately find a way to grow under cover of cardboard/woodchips.
Yes for sure. And in the rainforest, you wouldn't even have grass, it would probably already be all gone. Higher temps and more water equals faster decomposition. If either of those aren't there, it can slow down tremendously.
According toDr Elaine Ingham and the soil food web, a plant cant physically run out of nutrients because everything a plant needs is in sand/silt/clay and no soil on earth has too little sand/silt/clay. What soil does not have enough of is bacteria and fungi which digest the sand/silt/clay into nutrients and feed the roots. Its all about the soil life.
Exactly. Check out my microbiology guide as it would be very interesting to you if you haven't seen it yet. I discuss this exact thing! Great comment 👍
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Where can I check it out?
th-cam.com/video/LO-ostC1q-4/w-d-xo.html
So awesome!
Thank you! Cheers!
Love you videos. I’m curious you thoughts on setting the root flare slightly above grade to account for setting over time
Definitely! This is something I've been doing in a more extreme way as each year goes by. It's always solvable by pulling soil back (as long as it isn't something extreme like a foot too deep). However I think if you can go about 2 or 3 inches higher at initial planting, that's the best way.
Some of the first bare root fruit trees I planted are probably planted a little too deep, as I didn't take into account how much mulch I'd be using (or some minor settling of the soil). I've left those trees a little bit of a bowl as to keep the mulch off the trunk (also helps with watering with rainwater). Most of the trees I've planted recently are pretty close to perfect with the root flare just below the soil level. I usually will pull the mulch back a couple of inches away from the trunk. One of the trees that I have a graft union just barely above the soil level is on a EMLA-111 rootstock (per several warnings that the depth is critical). Might be related to burr knot formation.
One thing that I think I'm pretty good about is being absolutely uncompromising with the pruning of roots on bare root trees. You really don't any of the main roots to be crossed. I've also never had any issues with tipping the bigger roots if they're too unruly (too hard to get them to lie in a radial direction).
I like your comment about using a large pot to hold soil. I've had issues with mail-order nurseries sending trees while our ground is still frozen. My solution? Pre-dig all the holes in the fall, put the dirt a pot (15 gallon or larger) and put the pot in the hole (so it's not a hazard). You can then plant the trees in record time in late winter / early spring. :)
Haha that's a nice idea about pre-digging.
I also completely agree with not being shy about "fixing the roots" before planting. I think that's a lesson that isn't learned until 3-4 years later when a tree just randomly dies and you have no idea why. It probably had really poor root structure and was doomed to strangle itself out from day 1.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I'm sure I still have many lessons to learn (usually the hard way). I have 5 fruit trees that I planted in "gopher baskets" (chickenwire) out of an abundance of caution, but I haven't seen a gopher yet. Well, it turns out that these baskets may take their sweet time rusting and falling apart in our alkaline soil. I'm going to replace one of the 3rd year trees now and see what it looks like, but I might have some entirely girdled trees in 5-8 years. Whoops! At least I'll have a better idea of what varieties to try by then and will get the planting depth perfect.
Hi Keith. Thanks for all of the info, I just finished The Soil and Health-a very fascinating book. Question.-When using manure to make compost, It seems like the widespread use of antibiotics in animals would have a negative impact on soil biota. The book was written before the age of antibiotics so how do you navigate around the antibiotic problem in manure when making compost?
I know where my manure comes from. Previously it was a neighbour who I trusted. Now it's from my sister who I also obviously trust. I also know where they source their hay, and I've talked to that guy and he doesn't spray his fields. It's all about finding out where you are getting the product from and talking to those people.
A lovely update, thank you. The rockery area is starting to look so established. What are the little ground-hugging purple flowers there? I love how they meld with the rocks and also when they're growing next to the fresh green ferns. Really pretty.
That's creeping Thyme. The bees love it!
Around here we can't take organic matter in the soil for granted. It took me 3 (!!!) years of heavy woodchip mulching before I saw my first earthworm. Insane, right? So, I do add a little bit of organic matter to the planting hole (probably 15-20% at most). If I've got a clump of clay, I'll usually mix in some sand from elsewhere in the yard or rice hulls to loosen up the soil texture. For native plants, I'll just ensure that the soil has adequate drainage.
Yeah each area has it's unique challenges. No 2 sites are the same.
Great garden. Can you tell me the type of paw paw and persimmons you grow?
Paw paws, I have a few: KSU Chappel, Benson, KC-1342, Shannandoa, Susquahanna, and a few other Neil Peterson Varieties. Persimmons are Nikitas gift.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy That's amazing for zone 4.
❤️
Hi! I have just started watching your videos and really enjoy them. I live in Florida so very few of the plants will work for me but I'm getting a lot of other useful info. One question though: are there swales in your food forest? As you were walking through I didn't see them (except where the paw paws were). Maybe there's another video that shows the swales and water harvesting.
Indeed, I have an entire series on swales. If you search "swale" on my channel you will find a bunch. I also have several "water guides" which focus heavily on using earthworks to maximize your advantages. Also my latest video on how to amend soils in back to Eden method, it talks about water and swales at the end.
Hi! I'm new to the channel and I absolutely love it.
I'm starting my first home orchard using the deep woodchip mulch method in late winter. I have only added compost to the area this year so my ground is mostly jory clay but not crazy heavy.. I got results with a ph of 4 with an organic matter buffer bringing it to 5.5 ish. Would you suggest I lime with calcitic lime into the top 6 inches of the planting hole? I'm not sure if I should amend with lime or just trust that with additional chips and permaculture methods will allow nutrients to be more accessible over time.
Any suggestions would be appreciated!!!
Hmmm that's super low. You could. You could also add some wood ash. Also definitely look into growing blueberries and cranberries, they will love that pH.
@Canadian Permaculture Legacy Thanks! I know it probably seems like a no-brainer, but I haven't heard many permaculture folk mention or discuss lime in their methods . Wasn't sure if it's something that was frequently used in these systems. This is my first home garden ever, and I'm kinda jumping in with both feet!
I will definitely look into some acid loving plants as well. Your soil science and planting videos are so helpful and easy to follow. I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge!
I'm not really a fan of adding artificial amendments to the soil - for a few reasons, but the least of which isn't cost and work. I'd rather take time and just chop and drop and mulch and create natural pH buffers, and then focus on plants that work well in the native conditions. However if lime helps in the short term you can try it out, a pH of 4 is really low. If it was me though, I'd just plant stuff that loves acid soils instead of trying to change the pH of the native soil.
Hmmm. When would be harvest time for the hardy fig?
If I rememebr last year it was Aug.
Watching this I just realized I planted my trees in autumn at graft union height, not root flare height, good to know.
Should I dig them up and raise them in early spring?
They have only been in soil for 3 months so it shouldn't hurt them too much, I think.
if it's only been 3 months sure, should be okay. The other option of course is pulling back soil around the tree, but that can create pooling of water (and ice freezing). If your tree is on a bit of a slope and one side would still allow for draining you could try that instead.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy It's flat as a pancake here with heavy soil so I'll just replant them.
Thank you.
Your doing terrific! I planted 10 Norway spruce last week.
Thanks for another inspiring video. I've never heard the bit about not amending the soil when planting trees. I just planted a bunch in a new area which had some very hard, dry ground and added a fair amount of rich, dark soil into each hole. Will they eventually spread out or do you think that initial amendment will set them back them for life? Anything to be done after the fact?
I think for my strategy to work, there needs to be somewhat decent soil. Not great soil but not compete garbage soil. What nature does is move a bunch of pioneer weeds for a decade or more, and build organic matter and mulch layers after years of end of season die backs.
So anyone can do the same thing with enough time. Just drop organic matter onto the soil and let it decompose. Then there is SOME nutrient in the topsoil and trees won't need amendments. But if the soil is super depleted and dead, then planting it without amending it may just be an effort in futility.
Like all things, the answer is: it depends.
That chicago cold hardy fig tree sounds so amazing! Can you cut it down in the fall, or do you have to wait till the spring?
Spring for 2 reasons. First, it's never good to prune before winter. A prune is a fresh open wound on the tree, and it needs time to callous and heal. Similar to how we make a scab, a tree compartmentalizes and seals off its wounds.
Secondly, there's always a chance of a mild winter that the above growth may survive. If you can get several of those in a row the tree will get hardier and hardier.
any suggestions for planting trees in clay soil if you just got a tree and haven't had time to treat it with woodchips 1st? i mostly add soil and plant it above the clay soil.
It's all about adding organic material and getting the life back into the soil. They then break it down more. But it takes time.
Bark, sawdust, manure, leaf mold, compost and peat moss are commonly added to clay soils to help boost the organic content.
Curious where you got your pawpaws, I see only one site with them for sale which claim to be from Canada and are cold hardy, but they want $125 each :O I'd love to find a cold hardy variety to try and cultivate in the Yukon (with shelter)
Sounds like Greenbarn. (now called coldhardyfruitandnuttrees) I'm not a fan, so over-priced. Try grimo nut nursery, and whiffletree.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Will do!
I understand the root flair and ground/soil levels for initial planting, BUT.....do you pay attention to where the graft and mulch levels are relative to each other?....it seems sometimes that's a shorter distance than the mulch depth I would like and I am hung up on keeping the graft above the mulch
Any thoughts?
Keep roughly 3-4 inches around the tree bare soil. This helps prevent issues with the graft union but also keeps boring insects from having an easy pathway through the mulch into the tree. As the trees get bigger you can extend the "bare soil" area around the tree to 5, 8 even 12 inches.
so if i have new lawn i rather plant trees first and sheet mulch around ?
or is this his the same as if I would plant in freshly mulched pasture like yours ?
do i plant the height you mentioned on the ground level original soil or top of mulch ? It could be 10 inch difference ?
Ideal method is sheet mulching 1-2 years in advance. That being said I only did that in a few places... I was too excited to plant. Next best method is plant trees and sheet mulch around.
You plant to the top of soil level. Mulch can be higher, as it will break down and reduce in height dramatically. If you are going 10 inches deep mulch, maybe plant 2-3 inches above soil level. Trees tend to sink a bit as the soil settles, so it will help the tree get too deep beneath the mulch.
Do you have a solution that will keep killing the grass if it comes up thru the sheet mulch and what do you think of the Ellen White method of planting trees?
I don't like amending in the tree holes no. I much prefer Mark Shephards method. I think the Ellen White method works really well for a few years until the tree runs out of perfect amended soils, then they struggle in their first drought they need to experience.
I just planted two relatively large "potted" apple trees in the Sudbury Area! The nursery gave me bonemeal and insisted it be used. For further trees I will try and get exposed root trees. If there anything I can do to help out these apple tree roots to spread beyond their original potted jail?
The best thing you could do is to start mulching their planting locations as far in advance as possible. Other than that, I think people put too much attention on getting trees growing quickly. It kind of speaks to human impatience. Sometimes doing things a bit slower and more naturally can lead to a much stronger tree in the longterm.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thanks for the reply. Really appreciate the videos and engagement. Grew up on a farm and we had a small orchard. Everything in neat rows. Your approach is being passed on to my kids already as I tell my 2 year old to "feed his worms" with all the scraps and cuttings in our growing compost pile. Keep up the great work 🇨🇦🤓
did you originally buy you comfrey locally or get it online? im having a hard time finding it
I found it at a nursery called Richters Herbs.
Well that explains why my plum tree has just sat there the last 6 years growing sprouts from the base and doing nothing up top....
:(
Question:
When are the viewer videos due? I’m trying to make mine but it’s been raining here a lot 😊
No deadline, one I get about 8 of them or so I will compile part 1 and post it. I will do another one if I get more, etc. So anytime is fine, but there's also no rush.
It just dawned on me that none of your trees have any trunk protection. (other than the one example that Lucy destroyed, ironically) Do you find that wrapping the trunks or painting them, or putting tree guards around them just isn't necessary most of the time, or do you lose a lot of trees and are just ok with it?
I do have some, but I'll usually put them on in late fall. I've read that the trunks really want the sun to hit them, so I usually pull them off in the spring.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Ah, gotcha. Just seeing it on that one tree in this video made me realize I never see any on your trees. That makes sense, though. I wrap my younger trees in the fall, too.
Hello.
Good morning!
Can you sell mail order seeds internationally?
It's really hard to find trustworthy seed suppliers for all these weird plants to get actually winter hardy open pollinated lineages.
I live in ~zone 4 with harsh winters (down to -40*C and over a meter of snow) but on south facing a hillside with plenty of springs keeping the soil both watered in dry summers and warm in winter under a thick blanket of snow (last winter I dug in the snow and when I got to the grass it was green and steaming even though it was -25*C out).
I'm feeling ambitious and adventurous and want to try weird things like pawpaws and hardy figs, but buying seeds from ebay or something is alwayts a gamble...
I don't think so, and from talking to others that do it, it sounds like the last thing I need in my life. Tons of hassle. Stuff going missing in the mail. Stuff turned back at borders. Customers refusing to pay for duty taxes. Stuff going bad in the mail and having to deal with refunds. I have a very busy life right now, and that's not something I need to be dealing with. I do sell things to people, but only if they can come pick them up. Super sorry, it's just not something I want in my life.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy totally understandable, I will just keep gambling and buying the same things from several sources and hope I get some that survive up here :)
It's not like seeds are usually expensive.
Do you water new trees daily?
I usually plant in spring so no need. I like to plant when the season makes sense. We get a ton of rain in the spring. However I would probably water daily if we got no rain. Do that for the first week. Then move on every other day with a deeper soak. Then move to once a week with a very deep soak. Then stop watering. That would be my progression through the first growing season.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy I did a really deep soak immediately after planting. I haven’t watered them since, which is about a week now, and it’s only lightly rained since then. I guess I need to water them more regularly. My fig tree looks dead and I’m not sure if that’s because I fucked up or because of the cold and I planted too soon lol
Is the fig brand new? I would say you likely planted too early. It may rebound though. Often when I think things died, they were just stunned and they recovered.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy yes brand new. The thing is the soul is still quite moist under the surface so I put off watering. Why does it need water if it’s moist?? But everyone is telling me to water it very often.
It doesn't. If it's moist, it's fine. Don't overwater.
I do the same, I pull back mulch, and check before I water things.
What should I do if I planted my tree wrong? I filled my hole with compost 🤦
It's fine, definitely leave it. Maybe in the spring, sprinkle some manure or compost in a larger area around it to encourage roots to go seeking it out. Just right on top is fine.
DOES THE AMERICAN PERSIMMON NEED A MALE TO POLLINATE OR CAN OTHER FEMALE TREES POLLINATE each OTHER ?
It depends on the variety for persimmons. You'd have to get your variety then look it up. Some are self-fertile, some are not. For example, Nikita persimmon is self fertile.
@@CanadianPermacultureLegacy Thank you 😊
There is definetly no one coming to buy jerusalem artichokes
Not possible to 'plant too much'!
I totally agree, but I do slightly worry how I'm going to deal with all this food in 10 years when each tree is DUMPING it down on the ground. I'll need to hire pickers I think.
You seem to mulch right up to the trunk, is the position that this should be avoided not scientifically supported?
I usually try to pull back a few inches around each tree. I'm not always great about it though. When you can, definitely keep the root flare exposed and mulch off the trunk
I usually try to pull back a few inches around each tree. I'm not always great about it though. When you can, definitely keep the root flare exposed and mulch off the trunk