To my mind the whole electrical installations setup has turned into a giant scam, as a qualified electrical engineer I am not allowed to do any work myself even though I am easily capable of following the regs and know infinitely more on the subject than 'qualified' electricians all because I haven't paid the toll to the government. I can design 400KV switchgear and transmission systems but adding a 13A socket is beyond my capabilities apparently. Indeed before the current regime was put in place I rewired whole houses, all to a higher standard than many electricians, back in the old black and red days. I did my level 3 many, many years ago when I was at college as a side course while I was studying electronics engineering but that is no good now because they keep changing the regs every 5 minutes often for no good reason just so they can keep selling courses and copies of the IEE regs. Plastic consumer units, no metal, no plastic again, you know how it goes.
@@efixx While I would agree that some changes over time have been added for good reason, however most of the changes make little sense and one has to wonder if the changes are so necessary surely all houses wired to previous versions are by their measure somehow unsafe but this is clearly not the case. The consumer unit changes are a classic example where it went from metal to plastic to metal then back again. It makes a mockery of whole system and just creates change for change sake so they can keep selling refresher courses and keep selling expensive copies of the regs. If it was about safety the regs would be a PDF free to download and all changes would be there for very good reasons where it is easy to understand the benefit. Even with all the regulations I have still seen apparently signed off horrifically poor work that I have helped tidy up.
Have they gone back to plastic consumer units? I'm genuinely worried that I've missed that now. 😬 As an electrical engineer I'm sure you'd agree that safety is a spectrum rather than black and white, safe or unsafe, there's degrees of safety and it's an endless balance between risk and cost. The regs cost money to create, people need to be paid for the time spent creating, writing, proof-reading, etc. and it's part of a bigger picture with European and International Regulatory bodies, that can't be done without cost. I agree that there's a lot of poor work out there but that isn't the regulations or the creators of them at fault. There's always people who ignore rules and regulations if they find them inconvenient, that's just a sign of larger ills within society I'm afraid.
@@efixx I don't even know any more if it's plastic or metal, just giving an example of change for the sake of it. Why they just didn't just leave it as metal in the first place baffles me. The point I was making is that although the gate keepers keep handing out their little plastic cards it hasn't stopped crappy work being done and clowns are still doing work on their own that is dangerous. The only people that seem to have been impacted are people like myself who are well able to do the work safely and to a high standard but now can't because the people handing out the little plastic cards say no. The regulatory bodies shouldn't be having to raise money setting copies of the regs and guidance notes an all that, it provides a conflict of interest for them to keep making pointless changes, in fact it has become a license to print money in my opinion. The whole thing should be split up into a set of standards for specific things so it can be added to simply and cheaply without having to republish the whole thing all the time. This would make it like all other engineering standards, but then they wouldn't be able to justify gate keeping with their over priced refresher courses and never ending guidance documents etc. Then the government are always sticking their beaks in with changes to building regs. It's a nightmare just for the sake of it. I don't know how you guys doing installations full time cope. Glad I never got into all that and stayed in the engineering world.
It was never metal in the first place, there was no specific regulation regarding the material, then a regulation came in to make it a non-combustible material, ie metal. It has stayed that way since so no back and forth just an improvement to help contain fires should something go wrong in a consumer unit. If you read my last comment you'll see that I agree there's a lot of substandard work out there, however this is a step to try and up skill those who want to do electrical work properly, having less control and oversight will only reduce standards. Sadly you as an example of someone unqualified who could do the work well are in a minority in this industry. It costs money to get stuff done. And BS 7671 is just one of those smaller set of standards that gets added to as and when it's needed, the cost of it compared to many British Standards is very low. And to be fair again if the government didn't update the Building Regs to keep up with changing technology and methods there'd simply be anarchy in the construction industry, well, more anarchy anyway. Its actually not that hard to keep up with the changing industry and one of our goals at eFIXX to try and help people keep updated in simple easy to understand terms. Hopefully we're achieving a small measure of that. 😊
This was tried when I was a spark at ICI, we had other trades doing some very minor works, it was a joke then, and still is. Kitchen fitters and solar installers are a complete joke, none of them should even touch a screw driver, its bad enough getting electricians to do the right thing. I have just inspected a piece of work installed by 'electricians' on site, and it was lethal.
It's not weird at all, but much of the public is pretty illiterate when i comes to electricity. So many people have no clue or perception that it is any different than just more of what you know in your home. Residential work has gone on too long with low technical skilled people. I watched the decline happen and have been screaming about it for what seems like decades. In the US it happened with Ronald Reagan and the neo cons. Deregulation and contempt for unions and it just devolved from there. It spread into the education system with an attitude that looked down in science based skills and focused on so called business skills. And today, intelligence is literally looked down upon by many as nerdy people out of touch with reality. I personally think that this was mainly driven by politics. It's harder to fool smart people so is some parties and overall economic systems were going to survive they had to dumb down the public. And they did a great job! Somehow intelligence became a threat to religious freedom. They payed all their cards and it worked. We have largely become a nation of idiots who can be easily manipulated. Funny thing about stupidity, is that most people don't know how stupid they are. That has become common in the residential electricity world. People who are little more than installers, think they are skilled electricians and most barely understand the most basic electrical theory. But the commercial world has more complex systems and industrial elevates that even dramatically more so. Big industry does far more screening and often trains their own people. These are indeed different worlds. But the average person has not a clue. I can't speak for the UK, but this is long overdue in the US. There have been efforts in the past but the whole concept of National level regulation of business has been largely dismantled as I mentioned above. So 50 states would have to independently adopt such standards. In some larger municipal areas, they have their own standards. Often this was initially driven by a lack of broader regulations, but it also means that it can easily become politically corrupted. We have a lot of people who do know what needs to be done, but we have too many of the dumbed down public who won't support it.
@@johnchristmas7522 The UK is probably different, as it usually is with most everything. The US is a lot different. We have a national code and the standards system is far better than the rest of the world, based on the horrendous IEC standards. But there are only a very few local codes that disallow DIY work. Even in those, it's not enforceable. What they can do at a state level is regulate businesses so as to prevent anyone but certified professionals from getting a business license. And technically, a home owner in most jurisdictions should get a permit. Permit laws could then restrict them to only be issued with a certified contractor. Commerce in cases like this are under state control and not federal. Interstate commerce can be regulated federally. You'd be thrown out of court claiming this to be an interstate issue. So in reality there are very few places that truly regulate contractors at a specific level. Tends to be only in Democratically controlled cities. Republicans hate all regulations and would strip all regulating power of the federal government, except for things that might make it harder for Blacks to vote or other things they could do to suppress people they don't like. If that sounds hypocritical, it is, but that is right wing MAGA America!! On the one hand, it probably is appropriate to keep regulating authority at the state level, but it should be out of the hands of politicians and in the hands of agencies made up of career professionals, mirroring the way it works at the federal level. (at least in theory) Bottom line is that 99% of electrical work can be done with no one the wiser. And I'm guessing UK doesn't have regulatory police going house to house checking on what you are doing. I'd be happy if we could get it done at a business level so only certified people could do this kind of work. As I see it, this should primarily be about consumer protection more than anything else. If individuals want to do their own work and aren't properly trained or skilled, it is their own stupidity that puts their house and family at risk. Pretty hard to regulate stupidity! But for those who don't know themselves are smart enough to go to a professionals, that market shouldn't be flooded with people who don't know what they are doing! We used to do the right thing but deregulation became a political movement. We have suffered because of this. And the internet doesn't help because any idiot can watch a 20 minute video and believe they are qualified to do this kind of work.
I'd say the need to have mechanics being trained electricians [to work on EVs] is akin to plumbers/boiler installers thinking they are fully qualified to install heat pumps because they work with heating appliances 🤦♂- someone clearly has no clue. Just because you are associated with a particular field/technology doesn't mean you will know something similar inside out - bit like suggesting a nurse should train as a GP to do some heart surgery 😵💫
When is ledvance going to do 2D Compact bulbs and as someone who has worked on basic electrics as a child (replacing sockets and switches) would I need the gold card to continue working on them
Ol jib sparky here who's been in oz for over 40 years so feel i can pass comment.If your in the uk and your a time served qualified electrician then australia will welcome you but there are some caveats. Every state have there own rules as they all believe they are better than the others so it pays to check on each states rules.Here in western australia you will have to go back to tech for approx 6 months then take the final apprenticeship exam and test( capstone), until you pass that you will not be able to work as an electrician, yes some dodgy companies flout the rules but for any major company or mining project you will deffo need your WA electrical licence. The good news is once you have passed the technical side then the standard of work here is on a par with any 4th world country, the dollar rules here and lash it in ( ya can't see it from my house) ethos rules.We all have our personal standards but the pressure to just get it in here is rife, yes you have to work to the wiring rules but that book is a mystery to many many companies , money is good though.
We had cards like these years ago. They were called a J.I.B. (joint industrial board) cards which showed your ability and qualifications to an employer. Problem was, when electricians became short and cheap labour came flooding in from the EU -firms gave them out like confetti- no apprenticeships or proof of qualification needed. I had one of these "electricians" on a commercial job, who could not connect up a 110v plug, when questioned, turned out he was a Romainian Farm Labourer!
We had a carpet 'fitter' doing electrical fitting once, at ICI. We also had a French electrician and he was great, never can tell until you work with them.
As a general builder it still seems the easiest way. is to carry on doing my own domestic works and get my electrician mate to check it and sign it off. :)
Why have you made this about LGBTQ+ people? The content of this video has nothing to do with the group specifically and it's attitudes like this that keep minorities out of the trades. Your attitude is appalling and the quicker you retire this type of discrimination the better... N.B. I got a pop-up when trying to comment on this that stated I should keep comments relative to the content and channel, so @efixx why are you not only allowing this tangential and divisive commentary but liking it too?
@@rebeccahare897 omg lighten up its a bloody joke. Anybody who served as an served as an apprentice in the 80's and 90's understood . Now nobody can say anything about anything without fear of offending some snowflake. Did wonder when I put it on how long it would before somebody would CLAIM to be offended
Ar yes just what we need more over regulation. I am sure there be some training company that can spend a week showing how to remove an ev traction battery power link.
I wonder if even electricians with specialised training with electronics should even be allowed, or if it should be mandatory for electrical engineers (or at least an electrician with a higher level qualification in electrical engineering).
There is certainly a small training requirement needed to take an electrical or electronics engineer into to being an electrician, focussing manly on the regs and a few key principles, which would take no more than a week to teach. Then there's the practical side of it that needs to be taught, pipe bending, chasing out walls etc, but the 3 year experience requirement can be dropped to ahem..a few weeks.
@scrapyardwars Having a semi professional background in electronics and having done quite a bit of electrical rewiring for my self, family and others I decided that I could become an electrician. There were no official qualifications needed to do this here in the UK in the late seventies to the mid nineties at least. Domestic electrics were much simpler than electronics, so being an electrician came very easily to me. Of course, there is often more carpentry and plastering than there is wiring in this job. There are so many rules and regs these days, not to mention the testing and paper work. As you say, it's a nice little club and this is the big problem when there are just so many clubs that sparky's have to join. Many electricians are so into the regs and clubs and testing and I often find that these people just don't have the knowledge and skill that I had in my day. It's just a job to them. Nothing has changed much in the last 40 years. Cables , their sizes and the way you install them hasn't changed at all. All these regs and clubs are just another way to tax sparky's.
@@mygreatbigfoot1679 I agree but that's fire regs while the wiring still stays the same. They've been pushing amendment 3 and metal consumer units for a while now but the majority of the UK still have plastic ones and they very rarely go up in flames. Of course, metal is safer but there's often a hidden agenda in these reg's and it's often down to money. Not many people will challenge me on this point because they're not really sure about it.
No worries at all, our guy in the post room is on holiday right now but he'll be on it when he gets back. It's the get involved link, should be in the description there. 👍
Likelihood of your average domestic sparks bothering to do the new qual unless his regulatory body demand it.... Almost certainly minimal. Kind of cheapens existing Gold card holders who have done a full apprenticeship... Can't they get a brown card or something? Can they still be approved electricians?
@@efixx is it? Or is it more confusion and dilution of qualification? We as an industry make this look really difficult. So many quals. So many routes. There should just be one and it should be mandatory.
I am a retired Fork Lift Truck Engineer and my thoughts are DO NOT let a car mechanic loose on EV's, they do Not have ANY IDEA of High Current DC Control Systems, to be honest we've had a couple of ex- carmechanics over the years, but NONE of them lasted Long
@@efixx I concur. When I use my regular garage and they identify an electrical fault they always need to call in an "auto-electrician" because they know bugger all about electricity. So why they think they can extend their internal combustion engine knowledge to an all-electrical power train is bizarre.
What parts of an EV is a mechanic going to work on on a day-to-day basis? I'd wager the vast majority of the work is on mechanical parts, tyres, brakes, glass etc. No need for an electrian's qualification in any of those. On the other hand, I doubt a sparky who used to do home installations would be particularly qualified to swap a battery on a Tesla. Maybe a new type of work split is required, a person with dedicated training in EV circuitry might come in when needed, while the bulk of vehicle maintenance could still be handled by regular mechanics.
Same ..I had a couple of forklift technicians couldn't change a wheel bearing.. they didn't last long either 😔 (bite) I do agree with you the problem is the word mechanic it covers a massive skill range. Then there are the customers (sparkies in their vans) who need cheap repairs done to high standards but cheap means a low skilled person that will have a go ..then it's very dangerous.. our industry is shockingly regulated..
Talking to a couple independent garages and I’m sure this applies to many more ,if EVs take over they are just going to call it a day and hang up their boots.
Independent garages have for at least the last 3 decades had a problem with the electrical wiring and electronics becoming increasingly sophisticated. Hence the need for Auto electricians which is quite a bit different to domestic or commercial electrics.
For some this might be best. You can be completely uneducated, don't understand math or have any real formal training and still be very good with pure mechanical systems and maybe with some older mostly mechanical engines. But learning electrical systems may be well beyond you capability. As a shop owner, you're going to need people with old skills and new skills both. But you'll need to have appropriate level knowledge to manage a multi layered business, and be capable of hiring the new talent you will need. Maybe taking on a partner more appropriately skilled. The old tech won't vanish over night so just investing in a sign that says "No EVs" might be the initial way to go. At some point through the transition, the old tech skills may even see an increase in demand just before it fades away entirely. No doubt, independent shops will have a tougher time than dealers who will likely have much better access to training and even specialized equipment. But this doesn't necessarily mean the death of independents. But adaptability is going to be in high demand.
How times change at least some will learn a 100 ohms ,is not housing estate .😉 Glad the days have gone where one would put a cut nail across a fuse holder and then go looking for the smoke , coming up through the cracks in the floor boards . 👍
Interesting news. Currently looking to change career into domestic/industrial electrician. Coming from a software background in my 4th decade of life so am wondering what the uk state of the union is on such late career changes in an industry dominated by young apprentices.
It's a challenge to retrain in this industry but not impossible, finding someone to take you on for an apprenticeship or while you train is the hardest part
I'm 39 yo this year ans just finished my level 3 I can tell you the worst part of the trade is finding someone willing to train you, I'm currently working 20 hours per week free in order to put in practice all I have learnt in college. Some of the electricians that I've came across have an attitude. However if that doesn't bother you and you got a strong personality go for it mate whenever I meet experienced electrician truing me down it got me thinking those people trying to demotivate me are either concerned about me being better than them or don't wanna competition in the future.
@@helim0101 thanks for the support. I am maybe 4 years behind you. Just sent off my cv to a local college this morn and an application to a business near me which needs two apprentices. We shall see.
“Raise the bar on skills” Lol. On the positive front the spy lights will also be able to track all those maintenance sparks who have been hiding in the secret cupboards for the last twenty years.
Maintenance Sparks. You mean respected professionals that go round fault finding, updating, maintaining and correcting the crud work undertaken by installation sparks. If you can maintain you can install. Any old “installation” monkey can chase walls, whack up boxes, enclosures, pull wires about and screw them into terminals or close levers on wago connectors. Diagnosing faults and remedying issues on working systems is a step up. Also, given the ECS Gold Card system has its own for the maintainers club it would appear the maintainers have already been found and tagged and de-closeted.
The Domestic Installer Gold Card. The most pointless Gold Card going. Unless there is a total ban on DIY or “builder inspired” home electrics it’s a redundant scheme. I doubt many builders and keen DIYers will be hot footing it onto the course to install fused spurs, bathroom lights and any other non-notifiable works. And let’s face it builders even do rewires either by LA notification or not bothering. My mums neighbour (78) only last weekend put up up two new outside lights himself he’d got from a well known chain of DIY store. So you have a Domestic Installer’s Gold Card….. meh, that’s nice.
Maybe. The entire point if I recall correctly for the Domestic Installer Scheme back in the Part P advent was so that people who installed kitchens, bathrooms and such like could self certify work they had been doing for years that suddenly became of interest to Building Control. I believe there was a short Domestic Installers Course to cover it. Then in 2013 Part P was heavily relaxed to nearly the point where the DI scheme is a non-entity. So the local handyman can still do the basics without any cards. Who knows. I am just one of those (Gold Carded, Compex) maintainers that was slagged on another post on here as being hidden away in a cupboard.
So what's the difference... I'm electromechanical engineer and know everything about electronic and electricity up to 110kV. So when I was looking to finish the course they said you will paid how long you need to finish. Of course they won't let you before 18 months even if you know better than them. That's criminal. Of course some of went to AM2, 3 after couple of months. What I heard. How...? It's question...
If you allow car mechanics to become electricians you are heading down a very dangerous slope. The quality and safety of any electrical work they do will be seriously in question. They have a bad enough reputation as car mechanics. Don't let them anywhere near electrics of any kind, unless they have 5 GCSE passes at grade C or 5 or higher including in subjects, maths, physics and English.
I'm a sparky in Qld Australia, where they are debating this change to the electrical safety Act. They would never let Mechanics become electricians. We are very very highly regulated around electrical work.
@@JulezliddellI visited family in aus last year for a few weeks. I've never seen such poorly constructed residential buildings. My garage is better quality than any new built house I saw while there. Wood and tin shack's built to last 30 years tops.
I’m an electronic/ electrical engineer in Ireland working in comms/ I.T., I’m sick of looking at screens & want more hands on work. How might I become an electrician? Thanks ☘️👍
Great guesses, with the very best will in the world, I hope you're not right as I don't fancy reading your username out next week! 😂 Just kidding, make sure you're listening next week to see if you're right. 😃
No shortage of those trades in construction, it's about low rates, before brexit dryliners got 15-16/hour that's why some of them left, now they get 23,like happened with class 1,2 drivers instead to rise the salary of locals they decided to bring others from outside. Electrical industry doesn't need more electricians it's overcrowded, it needs quality, you have no idea how bad things are and it doesn't matter it's high residential or small site, contractors support bad quality and blame workers. I wish there to be an organization that will protect you from be sucked and got all those evidence from a bad quality job, I'm sorry for customers who pay 800-1mln for a flat in London and get fooled. The thing is if you rise all of those wrong thing you get sucked, even you show to bastards that it's against wiring regulations they don't care, the excuse is if it's pass tests it's alright
Call my cynical, but I think most Car mechanics already have extensive experience in high current DC wiring, with a dirty great high current Battery under the bonnet.
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If i pass domestic electrician experienced worker assesment and get ecs gold card, can i issue electrical installation certificate ?
I guess the JIB are needing to sell more cards to maintain their lifestyle.
Are you signing up 😂
To my mind the whole electrical installations setup has turned into a giant scam, as a qualified electrical engineer I am not allowed to do any work myself even though I am easily capable of following the regs and know infinitely more on the subject than 'qualified' electricians all because I haven't paid the toll to the government. I can design 400KV switchgear and transmission systems but adding a 13A socket is beyond my capabilities apparently. Indeed before the current regime was put in place I rewired whole houses, all to a higher standard than many electricians, back in the old black and red days. I did my level 3 many, many years ago when I was at college as a side course while I was studying electronics engineering but that is no good now because they keep changing the regs every 5 minutes often for no good reason just so they can keep selling courses and copies of the IEE regs. Plastic consumer units, no metal, no plastic again, you know how it goes.
I think the regs change for good reasons to be fair...
@@efixx While I would agree that some changes over time have been added for good reason, however most of the changes make little sense and one has to wonder if the changes are so necessary surely all houses wired to previous versions are by their measure somehow unsafe but this is clearly not the case. The consumer unit changes are a classic example where it went from metal to plastic to metal then back again. It makes a mockery of whole system and just creates change for change sake so they can keep selling refresher courses and keep selling expensive copies of the regs. If it was about safety the regs would be a PDF free to download and all changes would be there for very good reasons where it is easy to understand the benefit. Even with all the regulations I have still seen apparently signed off horrifically poor work that I have helped tidy up.
Have they gone back to plastic consumer units? I'm genuinely worried that I've missed that now. 😬
As an electrical engineer I'm sure you'd agree that safety is a spectrum rather than black and white, safe or unsafe, there's degrees of safety and it's an endless balance between risk and cost.
The regs cost money to create, people need to be paid for the time spent creating, writing, proof-reading, etc. and it's part of a bigger picture with European and International Regulatory bodies, that can't be done without cost.
I agree that there's a lot of poor work out there but that isn't the regulations or the creators of them at fault. There's always people who ignore rules and regulations if they find them inconvenient, that's just a sign of larger ills within society I'm afraid.
@@efixx I don't even know any more if it's plastic or metal, just giving an example of change for the sake of it. Why they just didn't just leave it as metal in the first place baffles me.
The point I was making is that although the gate keepers keep handing out their little plastic cards it hasn't stopped crappy work being done and clowns are still doing work on their own that is dangerous. The only people that seem to have been impacted are people like myself who are well able to do the work safely and to a high standard but now can't because the people handing out the little plastic cards say no.
The regulatory bodies shouldn't be having to raise money setting copies of the regs and guidance notes an all that, it provides a conflict of interest for them to keep making pointless changes, in fact it has become a license to print money in my opinion. The whole thing should be split up into a set of standards for specific things so it can be added to simply and cheaply without having to republish the whole thing all the time. This would make it like all other engineering standards, but then they wouldn't be able to justify gate keeping with their over priced refresher courses and never ending guidance documents etc. Then the government are always sticking their beaks in with changes to building regs. It's a nightmare just for the sake of it. I don't know how you guys doing installations full time cope. Glad I never got into all that and stayed in the engineering world.
It was never metal in the first place, there was no specific regulation regarding the material, then a regulation came in to make it a non-combustible material, ie metal. It has stayed that way since so no back and forth just an improvement to help contain fires should something go wrong in a consumer unit.
If you read my last comment you'll see that I agree there's a lot of substandard work out there, however this is a step to try and up skill those who want to do electrical work properly, having less control and oversight will only reduce standards. Sadly you as an example of someone unqualified who could do the work well are in a minority in this industry.
It costs money to get stuff done. And BS 7671 is just one of those smaller set of standards that gets added to as and when it's needed, the cost of it compared to many British Standards is very low. And to be fair again if the government didn't update the Building Regs to keep up with changing technology and methods there'd simply be anarchy in the construction industry, well, more anarchy anyway.
Its actually not that hard to keep up with the changing industry and one of our goals at eFIXX to try and help people keep updated in simple easy to understand terms. Hopefully we're achieving a small measure of that. 😊
If you can only do domestic work your not a spark. A spark is an all rounder. Not just a house basher
This was tried when I was a spark at ICI, we had other trades doing some very minor works, it was a joke then, and still is.
Kitchen fitters and solar installers are a complete joke, none of them should even touch a screw driver, its bad enough getting electricians to do the right thing.
I have just inspected a piece of work installed by 'electricians' on site, and it was lethal.
Its weird how the industrial/commercial electricians have totally different requirements and skill levels in respect to their fields
Yeah, same fundamental principles but very different environments. 👍
It's not weird at all, but much of the public is pretty illiterate when i comes to electricity. So many people have no clue or perception that it is any different than just more of what you know in your home.
Residential work has gone on too long with low technical skilled people. I watched the decline happen and have been screaming about it for what seems like decades. In the US it happened with Ronald Reagan and the neo cons. Deregulation and contempt for unions and it just devolved from there.
It spread into the education system with an attitude that looked down in science based skills and focused on so called business skills. And today, intelligence is literally looked down upon by many as nerdy people out of touch with reality. I personally think that this was mainly driven by politics. It's harder to fool smart people so is some parties and overall economic systems were going to survive they had to dumb down the public. And they did a great job! Somehow intelligence became a threat to religious freedom. They payed all their cards and it worked. We have largely become a nation of idiots who can be easily manipulated.
Funny thing about stupidity, is that most people don't know how stupid they are. That has become common in the residential electricity world. People who are little more than installers, think they are skilled electricians and most barely understand the most basic electrical theory.
But the commercial world has more complex systems and industrial elevates that even dramatically more so. Big industry does far more screening and often trains their own people. These are indeed different worlds. But the average person has not a clue.
I can't speak for the UK, but this is long overdue in the US. There have been efforts in the past but the whole concept of National level regulation of business has been largely dismantled as I mentioned above. So 50 states would have to independently adopt such standards. In some larger municipal areas, they have their own standards. Often this was initially driven by a lack of broader regulations, but it also means that it can easily become politically corrupted.
We have a lot of people who do know what needs to be done, but we have too many of the dumbed down public who won't support it.
Correct, learned over many years and classes but as you will see, many of us cannot touch our own string wired houses!!
@@johnchristmas7522 The UK is probably different, as it usually is with most everything. The US is a lot different. We have a national code and the standards system is far better than the rest of the world, based on the horrendous IEC standards.
But there are only a very few local codes that disallow DIY work. Even in those, it's not enforceable. What they can do at a state level is regulate businesses so as to prevent anyone but certified professionals from getting a business license. And technically, a home owner in most jurisdictions should get a permit. Permit laws could then restrict them to only be issued with a certified contractor. Commerce in cases like this are under state control and not federal. Interstate commerce can be regulated federally. You'd be thrown out of court claiming this to be an interstate issue.
So in reality there are very few places that truly regulate contractors at a specific level. Tends to be only in Democratically controlled cities. Republicans hate all regulations and would strip all regulating power of the federal government, except for things that might make it harder for Blacks to vote or other things they could do to suppress people they don't like. If that sounds hypocritical, it is, but that is right wing MAGA America!!
On the one hand, it probably is appropriate to keep regulating authority at the state level, but it should be out of the hands of politicians and in the hands of agencies made up of career professionals, mirroring the way it works at the federal level. (at least in theory)
Bottom line is that 99% of electrical work can be done with no one the wiser. And I'm guessing UK doesn't have regulatory police going house to house checking on what you are doing.
I'd be happy if we could get it done at a business level so only certified people could do this kind of work. As I see it, this should primarily be about consumer protection more than anything else. If individuals want to do their own work and aren't properly trained or skilled, it is their own stupidity that puts their house and family at risk. Pretty hard to regulate stupidity! But for those who don't know themselves are smart enough to go to a professionals, that market shouldn't be flooded with people who don't know what they are doing!
We used to do the right thing but deregulation became a political movement. We have suffered because of this. And the internet doesn't help because any idiot can watch a 20 minute video and believe they are qualified to do this kind of work.
Great, lets get electricians hourly rate below £16 per hour in Northern Ireland,flood the market, what a shite trade. £10 a hour anyone?
I'd say the need to have mechanics being trained electricians [to work on EVs] is akin to plumbers/boiler installers thinking they are fully qualified to install heat pumps because they work with heating appliances 🤦♂- someone clearly has no clue. Just because you are associated with a particular field/technology doesn't mean you will know something similar inside out - bit like suggesting a nurse should train as a GP to do some heart surgery 😵💫
Interesting points. 👍
When is ledvance going to do 2D Compact bulbs and as someone who has worked on basic electrics as a child (replacing sockets and switches) would I need the gold card to continue working on them
In what kind of environment? Competency is usually based on experience and qualifications. 🤔
@@efixx domestic, and you didn't answer my question WHEN IS LEDVANCE GONNA DO 2D COMPACT BULBS
Bloody hell, so many assessments, I'd rather carry on as a cowboy 🤠
Ol jib sparky here who's been in oz for over 40 years so feel i can pass comment.If your in the uk and your a time served qualified electrician then australia will welcome you but there are some caveats.
Every state have there own rules as they all believe they are better than the others so it pays to check on each states rules.Here in western australia you will have to go back to tech for approx 6 months then take the final apprenticeship exam and test( capstone), until you pass that you will not be able to work as an electrician, yes some dodgy companies flout the rules but for any major company or mining project you will deffo need your WA electrical licence.
The good news is once you have passed the technical side then the standard of work here is on a par with any 4th world country, the dollar rules here and lash it in ( ya can't see it from my house) ethos rules.We all have our personal standards but the pressure to just get it in here is rife, yes you have to work to the wiring rules but that book is a mystery to many many companies , money is good though.
Well, that took an unexpected turn! 😂 Useful insights though, thank you very much. 👍
We had cards like these years ago. They were called a J.I.B. (joint industrial board) cards which showed your ability and qualifications to an employer. Problem was, when electricians became short and cheap labour came flooding in from the EU -firms gave them out like confetti- no apprenticeships or proof of qualification needed. I had one of these "electricians" on a commercial job, who could not connect up a 110v plug, when questioned, turned out he was a Romainian Farm Labourer!
We had a carpet 'fitter' doing electrical fitting once, at ICI.
We also had a French electrician and he was great, never can tell until you work with them.
Video on if vans with inverters and sockets need an EICR!
As a general builder it still seems the easiest way. is to carry on doing my own domestic works and get my electrician mate to check it and sign it off. :)
Easy, just turn up at the job site and say you identify as an electrician, what could go wrong? 😂
Not enough characters here to describe what could go wrong... 😂
No you need to identify as an LGBT+++++ electrician, nobody will dare say anything 😂😂
Why have you made this about LGBTQ+ people? The content of this video has nothing to do with the group specifically and it's attitudes like this that keep minorities out of the trades. Your attitude is appalling and the quicker you retire this type of discrimination the better...
N.B. I got a pop-up when trying to comment on this that stated I should keep comments relative to the content and channel, so @efixx why are you not only allowing this tangential and divisive commentary but liking it too?
Sorry if it's offended you but there's zero mention of LGBTQ+ in the original post we liked and commented on.
@@rebeccahare897 omg lighten up its a bloody joke. Anybody who served as an served as an apprentice in the 80's and 90's understood . Now nobody can say anything about anything without fear of offending some snowflake. Did wonder when I put it on how long it would before somebody would CLAIM to be offended
Ar yes just what we need more over regulation. I am sure there be some training company that can spend a week showing how to remove an ev traction battery power link.
I wonder if even electricians with specialised training with electronics should even be allowed, or if it should be mandatory for electrical engineers (or at least an electrician with a higher level qualification in electrical engineering).
Interesting thought. 🤔
There is certainly a small training requirement needed to take an electrical or electronics engineer into to being an electrician, focussing manly on the regs and a few key principles, which would take no more than a week to teach. Then there's the practical side of it that needs to be taught, pipe bending, chasing out walls etc, but the 3 year experience requirement can be dropped to ahem..a few weeks.
@scrapyardwars Having a semi professional background in electronics and having done quite a bit of electrical rewiring for my self, family and others I decided that I could become an electrician. There were no official qualifications needed to do this here in the UK in the late seventies to the mid nineties at least. Domestic electrics were much simpler than electronics, so being an electrician came very easily to me. Of course, there is often more carpentry and plastering than there is wiring in this job. There are so many rules and regs these days, not to mention the testing and paper work. As you say, it's a nice little club and this is the big problem when there are just so many clubs that sparky's have to join. Many electricians are so into the regs and clubs and testing and I often find that these people just don't have the knowledge and skill that I had in my day. It's just a job to them. Nothing has changed much in the last 40 years. Cables , their sizes and the way you install them hasn't changed at all. All these regs and clubs are just another way to tax sparky's.
@@truthseeker7794 Well things do change especially in regard to withstanding and routing for fire protection.
@@mygreatbigfoot1679 I agree but that's fire regs while the wiring still stays the same. They've been pushing amendment 3 and metal consumer units for a while now but the majority of the UK still have plastic ones and they very rarely go up in flames. Of course, metal is safer but there's often a hidden agenda in these reg's and it's often down to money. Not many people will challenge me on this point because they're not really sure about it.
Hi efixx. I am proper chuffed I have won a prize. Can you point me to the link to claim it. I cannot see it in the notes. Thank you. Kevin.
No worries at all, our guy in the post room is on holiday right now but he'll be on it when he gets back. It's the get involved link, should be in the description there. 👍
I love you mentioned listening at the wholesaler counter... This is a time waster
😊
Another great news video gentleman. One of the great highlights of the week👍👍
Thanks as always for commenting and listening Chris. 👍
Likelihood of your average domestic sparks bothering to do the new qual unless his regulatory body demand it.... Almost certainly minimal.
Kind of cheapens existing Gold card holders who have done a full apprenticeship... Can't they get a brown card or something? Can they still be approved electricians?
Definitely a step in the right direction though. 👍
@@efixx is it? Or is it more confusion and dilution of qualification? We as an industry make this look really difficult. So many quals. So many routes. There should just be one and it should be mandatory.
I am a retired Fork Lift Truck Engineer and my thoughts are DO NOT let a car mechanic loose on EV's, they do Not have ANY IDEA of High Current DC Control Systems, to be honest we've had a couple of ex- carmechanics over the years, but NONE of them lasted Long
😬 Good to know!
@@efixx I concur. When I use my regular garage and they identify an electrical fault they always need to call in an "auto-electrician" because they know bugger all about electricity. So why they think they can extend their internal combustion engine knowledge to an all-electrical power train is bizarre.
What parts of an EV is a mechanic going to work on on a day-to-day basis? I'd wager the vast majority of the work is on mechanical parts, tyres, brakes, glass etc. No need for an electrian's qualification in any of those.
On the other hand, I doubt a sparky who used to do home installations would be particularly qualified to swap a battery on a Tesla.
Maybe a new type of work split is required, a person with dedicated training in EV circuitry might come in when needed, while the bulk of vehicle maintenance could still be handled by regular mechanics.
Same ..I had a couple of forklift technicians couldn't change a wheel bearing.. they didn't last long either 😔 (bite)
I do agree with you the problem is the word mechanic it covers a massive skill range.
Then there are the customers (sparkies in their vans) who need cheap repairs done to high standards but cheap means a low skilled person that will have a go ..then it's very dangerous.. our industry is shockingly regulated..
Talking to a couple independent garages and I’m sure this applies to many more ,if EVs take over they are just going to call it a day and hang up their boots.
That would be a shame, I'm sure there'll be some sort of upskilling program.
Independent garages have for at least the last 3 decades had a problem with the electrical wiring and electronics becoming increasingly sophisticated. Hence the need for Auto electricians which is quite a bit different to domestic or commercial electrics.
For some this might be best. You can be completely uneducated, don't understand math or have any real formal training and still be very good with pure mechanical systems and maybe with some older mostly mechanical engines. But learning electrical systems may be well beyond you capability.
As a shop owner, you're going to need people with old skills and new skills both. But you'll need to have appropriate level knowledge to manage a multi layered business, and be capable of hiring the new talent you will need. Maybe taking on a partner more appropriately skilled.
The old tech won't vanish over night so just investing in a sign that says "No EVs" might be the initial way to go. At some point through the transition, the old tech skills may even see an increase in demand just before it fades away entirely.
No doubt, independent shops will have a tougher time than dealers who will likely have much better access to training and even specialized equipment. But this doesn't necessarily mean the death of independents. But adaptability is going to be in high demand.
How times change at least some will learn a 100 ohms ,is not housing estate .😉 Glad the days have gone where one would put a cut nail across a fuse holder and then go looking for the smoke , coming up through the cracks in the floor boards . 👍
Oh my goodness that's terrifying! 😬😂
Interesting news. Currently looking to change career into domestic/industrial electrician. Coming from a software background in my 4th decade of life so am wondering what the uk state of the union is on such late career changes in an industry dominated by young apprentices.
It's a challenge to retrain in this industry but not impossible, finding someone to take you on for an apprenticeship or while you train is the hardest part
I'm 39 yo this year ans just finished my level 3 I can tell you the worst part of the trade is finding someone willing to train you, I'm currently working 20 hours per week free in order to put in practice all I have learnt in college. Some of the electricians that I've came across have an attitude. However if that doesn't bother you and you got a strong personality go for it mate whenever I meet experienced electrician truing me down it got me thinking those people trying to demotivate me are either concerned about me being better than them or don't wanna competition in the future.
@@helim0101 thanks for the support. I am maybe 4 years behind you. Just sent off my cv to a local college this morn and an application to a business near me which needs two apprentices. We shall see.
@@efixx 52 and female currently (going in to yr3) an apprentice and can confirm, if you find someone willing to give you a chance, it's do-able
You're too old to become an electrician
Brilliant news about the EWA. 2382-18, 2391-52 & 2365 to Level 3, more than 3 years...oh yes, I'm ready to go :-)
Good stuff!
Great news weekly Loe as always 👍
Thanks very much Sean. 😊
I have had trouble finding an apprenticeship here in QLD Australia, and I am from here.
That's worth knowing, have you landed one yet matey? 🫣
@@efixx not yet, applying to every one that pops up.
winning the lottery might be easier.
That's a shame, hope you find something, keep us posted. 💪
@@ChristmasCrustacean1 pick up the phone and call local sparkies, that's how I landed one in Qld. Applied for so many and never heard back from them.
@@Julezliddell Thanks, I'll give it a go.
“Raise the bar on skills” Lol. On the positive front the spy lights will also be able to track all those maintenance sparks who have been hiding in the secret cupboards for the last twenty years.
😂 Gotta find 'em to tag' em first. Catch 22! 🤣
Maintenance Sparks. You mean respected professionals that go round fault finding, updating, maintaining and correcting the crud work undertaken by installation sparks. If you can maintain you can install. Any old “installation” monkey can chase walls, whack up boxes, enclosures, pull wires about and screw them into terminals or close levers on wago connectors. Diagnosing faults and remedying issues on working systems is a step up. Also, given the ECS Gold Card system has its own for the maintainers club it would appear the maintainers have already been found and tagged and de-closeted.
The Domestic Installer Gold Card. The most pointless Gold Card going. Unless there is a total ban on DIY or “builder inspired” home electrics it’s a redundant scheme. I doubt many builders and keen DIYers will be hot footing it onto the course to install fused spurs, bathroom lights and any other non-notifiable works. And let’s face it builders even do rewires either by LA notification or not bothering. My mums neighbour (78) only last weekend put up up two new outside lights himself he’d got from a well known chain of DIY store. So you have a Domestic Installer’s Gold Card….. meh, that’s nice.
Definitely a step in the right direction no?
Maybe. The entire point if I recall correctly for the Domestic Installer Scheme back in the Part P advent was so that people who installed kitchens, bathrooms and such like could self certify work they had been doing for years that suddenly became of interest to Building Control. I believe there was a short Domestic Installers Course to cover it. Then in 2013 Part P was heavily relaxed to nearly the point where the DI scheme is a non-entity. So the local handyman can still do the basics without any cards. Who knows. I am just one of those (Gold Carded, Compex) maintainers that was slagged on another post on here as being hidden away in a cupboard.
Its good too know that a level 2 is now apparently good enough to get a gold card....the industry is becoming a joke
So what's the difference... I'm electromechanical engineer and know everything about electronic and electricity up to 110kV. So when I was looking to finish the course they said you will paid how long you need to finish. Of course they won't let you before 18 months even if you know better than them. That's criminal. Of course some of went to AM2, 3 after couple of months. What I heard. How...? It's question...
If you allow car mechanics to become electricians you are heading down a very dangerous slope. The quality and safety of any electrical work they do will be seriously in question.
They have a bad enough reputation as car mechanics. Don't let them anywhere near electrics of any kind, unless they have 5 GCSE passes at grade C or 5 or higher including in subjects, maths, physics and English.
Mm, bit of a sweeping statement there, probably lots of car mechanics think the same way about sparks. 😂
I'm a sparky in Qld Australia, where they are debating this change to the electrical safety Act. They would never let Mechanics become electricians. We are very very highly regulated around electrical work.
Good to know thanks. 👍
@@JulezliddellI visited family in aus last year for a few weeks. I've never seen such poorly constructed residential buildings. My garage is better quality than any new built house I saw while there. Wood and tin shack's built to last 30 years tops.
Gordon has been busy, not buying drinks though 🤣
He's a busy guy and to be fair very generous too. 👍
@@efixx hmm I wonder who is behind that profile picture typing that??? Nice try Gordon 🤣
It genuinely isn't Gordon... this time!
@@efixx hmm 🤨, 😂
I’m an electronic/ electrical engineer in Ireland working in comms/ I.T., I’m sick of looking at screens & want more hands on work.
How might I become an electrician? Thanks ☘️👍
This weeks words are Staycation and xylophone.
Nice guesses, make sure you tune in next week to see if you're right! 💪
This week's words must be Staycation and Xylophone
Great guesses Stuart, make sure you're tuned in next week to see if you got it right! 😃
My thoughts exactly
@@efixx I thought it was Incubator and Xylophone
Maybe you're right Andy! Listen to next week's show to find out! 😃
Definitely not Xylophone, that word sounded way too natural in context. ;-)
Zilophone . The word .
I hope I can win, as I have never won anything, not even a silly lotto 😢
Tune in next week to find out! 😃
Anything to keep down wages for the tory pay masters.
Nothing any changes.
Ah, you're referring to the Sevadis charger story no doubt.... 😂
This weeks words are Mechanic and Xylophone
I like your confidence Sergio. 💪
@@efixx Lets hope no one confuses EWA for EWR 1989
Just pondering... about trubles and xylophones...
😂 Tune in next week to see if you're right!
I hope I don't miss it!
Xylophone and staycation? :)
Nice guesses, listen to next week's show to see if you got it right! 😃
This weeks words...
Gatekeeper and xylophone?
Excellent guesses, make sure you're listening next week to see if you got it right. 😃
The words are staycation and xylophone
Great guesses Louis, stay tuned for next week's episode to see if you're right! 😃
“Xylophone” and “Swiss Army knife”
Great guesses, with the very best will in the world, I hope you're not right as I don't fancy reading your username out next week! 😂 Just kidding, make sure you're listening next week to see if you're right. 😃
If only TH-cam didn’t auto generate usernames.
😂 It's come up as Joe Worey in notifications so we'll go for that if you win!
No shortage of those trades in construction, it's about low rates, before brexit dryliners got 15-16/hour that's why some of them left, now they get 23,like happened with class 1,2 drivers instead to rise the salary of locals they decided to bring others from outside. Electrical industry doesn't need more electricians it's overcrowded, it needs quality, you have no idea how bad things are and it doesn't matter it's high residential or small site, contractors support bad quality and blame workers. I wish there to be an organization that will protect you from be sucked and got all those evidence from a bad quality job, I'm sorry for customers who pay 800-1mln for a flat in London and get fooled. The thing is if you rise all of those wrong thing you get sucked, even you show to bastards that it's against wiring regulations they don't care, the excuse is if it's pass tests it's alright
I thought it was Incubator and Xylophone
Good guesses. 👍
This weeks two words are Gatekeeper and xylophone.
Great guesses, tune in to next week's show to see if you got it right! 😃
Flory tube and xylophone 👍
Good guesses Harry, listen to next week's show to see if you got it right. 😃
Staycation and xylophone
Incubator and xylophone.
So it's not a new way to become a electrician
Er, call it alternative then. 👍
Incubator and xylophone good luck all
Great guesses! Make sure you're tuned in next week to see if you're right! 😃
Gordon’s wallet and xylophone
That first word's got you guessing Sean! See if you're right next week! 💪
Florry. Xylophone.
Good guesses Roger! Listen to next week's show to see if you got it right. 😃
More boogers thought we had done with this on domestic installs with part p
Xylophone and Gordon’s wallet
Great guesses Andrew, tune in next week to see if you're right! 👍
Call my cynical, but I think most Car mechanics already have extensive experience in high current DC wiring, with a dirty great high current Battery under the bonnet.
Incubator and xylophone
We'll see next week Sean. 😃
Gordon’s wallet 😉
😂 The ironic thing is he's actually really generous. 🤔
Wallet and xylophone
Nice guesses Roger, make sure you're watching next week to see if you got it! 👍
Swiss army knife and Xylophone
Nice guesses, make sure you listen to next week's episode to see if you got it right. 😃
xylophone and dash
Great guesses Steve, tune in to next week's news to see if you got it right! 😃
Domestic electrics are trash lol funny as hell you let unlicensed mobs burn down your joints.
Yes... hilarious. 😂
more monry wrapping
Sure...
Xylophone!
Gatekeeper and xylophone
Xylophone and Swiss army knife
gatekeeper, xylophone
Great guesses Will, dial in to next week's episode to see if you're right! 😃
Wallet and cracker
Good guesses, tune in next week to see if you're right! 😃
Xylophone and wheelchair
Well done on this week's win. Tune in next week to see if you're right! 😃
@@efixx Thank you very much. Im proper chuffed. I don't usually win anything. PS: I can't find any link to claim the goody bag.
I’d LOVE to see a Yankee sparky come over to the UK.
I’ll say no more than that 😂
Probably be just as entertaining sending a sparks the other way to be fair. 😂
Xylophone and Cracker.
Great guesses Mark, listen to next week's show to see if you got it! 😃
Staycation and Xylophone
Nice guesses,make sure you catch next week's show to see if you got it right! 😃