Oh right something I forgot to mention (since ironically her actual Confidant is the least discussed thing in the video), the rewards her Confidant gives actually suck and don't have anything to do with Makoto. They are all navigator/battle related, which seems like shit you would get from Futaba, but for whatever reason you get them from Makoto. It's also one of the few times when P5 took out a common sense gameplay mechanic like the game just remembering what enemies are weak to and making it a confidant bonus. Either way the abilities you get from the confidant are a really secondary thing that we take into account unless its amazingly helpful like Hifumi's or Kawakami's, but the lack of that killer ability does knock the confidant down a peg. In conclusion im right johne eats boogers.
7:30 I agree with you Fither, but she's not just a commentary on Japanese school, but also probably any helcopter parents in general, as I'm from Canada, my parents are from Philippines and Canada, with Grandparents from Japan, Scotland,France, Ireland, Spain and China, but most of my family takes from the Asian side, and are strict and put alot of pressure on me to succeed academically, and until I was in Uni was under alot of pressure.
Fither Oh yeah her more helpful social link abilities were basically geared towards the Navigator role which that's not her role that's Futaba's. Methinks Atlus got drunk at one point down the road.
Yusuke wrote down the license plate number when Makoto got caught and throughout the story he was usually the first to point out things but unfortunately it usually gets ignored by the group. For example he made the connection that Alibaba was Egyptian linked and if that was acknowledged amongst the group they could've guessed Futaba's palace just based on that. He also was one of the first to point out the Okumura food case was suspicious. So never bully my boy Yusuke again ;_;
Don't forget how Yusuke draws 'Every' calling cards for the phantom thieves since Madarame's palace, and also designed their little team logo for them.
More liked Yusuke revised the Logo. Ryuji designed the first version. Yeah the quality sucked but I hardly think that, given the job from scratch" Yusuke would design a flaming tophat. It just doesn't seem like his style to me.
My mains points in case anyone wants to be mad *Makoto has a bad confident * Doesn't really get along with anyone but Joker and Ann one time * Express bias from Atlus for Makoto (two dungeons centered around her) and Makoto clinging to Joker in cutscenes *Her dungeon is the worst *Everyone in game ignores dumb things Makoto does but is known as being smart *Legit zero memes
I saw one comment on reddit about this that I really agree with. Makoto’s reason for staying with the group is very much the same as Joker’s. She stays with the group because she genuinely likes to help people, which is what got joker all in it to begin with
I like Makoto a lot! But the main thing that bugs me about her is that she kinda falls into this Special Snowflake type: - She gets a LOT of attention even after her arc - She just so happens to know everything, understand everything in a matter of seconds and of course also question things nobody has thought of - She gets the most unique Persona (along with Futaba, but I hope you understand what I mean) - Her codename is "Queen" and everyone treats her like one And you know, these things wouldn't bug me as much if she didn't ALSO have the connection to Sae. She's just this "special" kind of character and I think it's sad that, especially after she awakens, other characters get left behind. Like I said, I love Makoto, but she's a bit over the top.
Actually, while I do get a littleannoyed by the special treatment, if we're to be completely truthful here she's NOT actually as important as the game sometimes presents her as. For example,in the Casino she's barely important and Sae's Shadow doesn't even pays her any mind (If anything the whole Palace is about Akechi showing off with Futaba also showing off her technical skills). Even most of the plan that surrounds the Casino heist is cooked up by Morgana and Futaba with Makoto's main contribution being the extraction of the information regarding the underground interrogation room and even then Futaba also further comments that she slipped upand forgot about the Cognitive Akechi that would have existed, which I believe Yusuke is the one who points it out. Aside from that she did get the data with the police investigaton, but that's because Sae had the data and Makoto just happens to be Sae's sister (again it is Futaba who gives her the software to clone the HDD and the one who decrypts the data). And from that point after she's... not exactly given much spotlight. Sure, she acts as the temporary leader while Joker is in jail but it's implied that they all pulled their weight toget Joker out of jail (and it's implied it was Sae who got the charges dropped). In all honesty, the character who is the " special snowflake" of the game is Futaba, which is impresive considering she joins halfway through the game.
LeonGun8 Honestly, I have to agree with you a lot here. The problem wasn't really Makoto herself in Sae's palace for me, it's more like the fact that she HAS the connection in the first place. When I played the game a second time you just notice how much she knows and talks and does all the important things (before Futaba really starts to join in) and it's really annoying sometimes. I do agree though that Futaba kind of replaced that role after August though. Idk I'm overall just salty that our first four members and ESPECIALLY HARU never got to do anything meaningful after their respective arcs. Yeah there was Shido's palace but some of them were jokes and I kinda wanted something more? (except Ryuji's moment ofc) Maybe I'm asking for too but idk
This can actually be rectified in that eventual re-release that we all know is inevitable (Persona 3 had 2: FES and P3P, and Persona 4 had Golden). Adding some events between Joker (and some of the PT) with Haru after her original introduction during the failed festival would help her character greatly. In fact, they could easily insert her by having hershowing an interest in Leblanc (and thus interacting with Joker over the summer like Akechi) because it is an actual THING that Haru had an interest in Coffee shops due to the origins of Okumura Foods. It's an incredibly simple way of inserting her into Joker and the PT's path during summer vacation without having to alter her story to a extreme. And yeah, adding some more story scenes for Ann would be good, seeing as she really is the odd-man out of the group since Yusuke actually gets several optional scenes during the summer. Perhaps it'd be much simpler to say that Joker, Ann and Ryuji should get more hang-out scenes on their own after Makoto joins, and it's not like it's even something that's outrageous to ask because Ann and Ryuji were old classmates from middle-school. They tend to like hanging out together even if they don't outright say it and it felt very natural how it was always the three of them even when Yusuke wasn't around, which is something that gets lost after Makoto arrives. And that's the key thing, it gets lost AFTER Makoto, for no real reason too. After Makoto joins it's either All PT or optional scenes, until Futaba shows up where it changes to all PT, Joker/Morgana and Futaba, or all optional scenes (except for the lone exception which is the Hawaii trip boys scene and room scene).
@Devenn Eng to me there is kinda a difference futaba definitely gets special treatment but shes shown more of a little sister like nanako and she kinda gets treated like a kid by makoto despite futaba also being smart i like both the characters though makoto does annoy me alot but they do get special treatment but in a different way from my perspective
My pros about Makoto: Smart enough to devise strategies out of nowhere. She’s not Morgana. A bike persona. I actually like her confidant. I found it relatable. She seems super intense. I actually do like how mean she can be. Cons: The whole “not knowing anything about being a teenager” thing. Her bike persona stops being a bike. She kisses Joker’s ass a lot of the time. Basically, her thing was to stop submitting to people in power, but then she does the same for Joker. I kinda wish her and her sister were closer to make Nijima’s palace a little more emotional for the player. It feels like just another job besides the occasional “Sis...”
Seta Entertainment Animation I just like that her persona is a bike, that’s all. Almost every other persona is a person/animal/monster etc and when she uses her persona in battle, she rides it vs other personas just floating behind the user. I just think it’s cool how hers is different.
shadowbox141 I mean it makes more sense she rides her 'bike' to school than walking. Unless Makoto has/had one but doesn't get on it like how EVA does it.
This is a very "passionate" video. I think both sides of this debate had very good points. And I really respect the bravery to point out Makoto's flaws. Because out of all the fandoms, Makoto lovers typically tend to be the the most violent. Lol!
this is 2 years late but im gonna say it anyway cause im bored and this is important to me. Makoto's inner conflict is a representation of my own inner conflict, and I was so happy to see it. For me, i'm a 1st generation African american, and of course, my parents want the absolute best for me, even if it means sacrificing my own happiness. This is an ideal that they have reflected in me to the extreme. Throughout my elementary school life, the only thing I did was school and computers. I was always doing something pertaining to my schoolwork, whether it was reading, studying, etc. Because of this, I was bullied heavily throughout elementary, and most of middle school. Everyday I would come to school, sit in the back of the class, and just did everything I could to get good grades. I ended up skipping kindergarten halfway through the year and went ahead to first grade, where they wanted to move me up again, but it was too late in the school year for it. I had no personal life besides computers. I remember since 2nd grade, me coming back from school every weekend and playing CS:GO, till my parents eventually had to drag me off the computer. To this day its one of the only things that make me happy. As you could have guessed, having being bullied most of my school career has made me very antisocial. For the most part, I hate people. I see nothing but the worst qualities in them, and I rarely ever speak, even when needed. When I got to 6th grade, I tried to change this, but only ended up getting shut down again. People wouldn't talk to me, I was treated as irrelevant, and got bullied more. It was near the end of 6th grade that it had finally hit me: I hated myself. I couldn't stand myself. Every day I would wake up and tell my mom I didn't want to go to school anymore, and I would always cry when she forced me to go anyway, every night I would cry myself to sleep (wish I was joking lol), and I would beg for me to be anyone else. Fortunately, I have video games to fall back on, but a person like Makoto doesn't have that, this is the only life they know. A life with no freedom, only mindless ambition that only ever leads to self hate. That is why I was fucking ecstatic when Makoto's awakening scene happened. I was so happy that a person with a backstory like me, could finally be acknowledged. Anyway, since I basically just wrote a big essay on why my life sucks and I hate myself, I should mention that you don't need to worry about me, I'm doing fine right now. Sorry for making you read all of this lol
This is a year after you wrote this, but I just wanted to say that I feel you man. Some people just don't get that every single person is special and should be acknowledged. Even if you don't like that sort of person or their personality, everyone deserves love and care, because the lack-there-of is what causes the negativity. Again, this is a year late, but I really felt what you wrote.
Makoto's okay, but she's not my favorite. That honor goes to Haru; although she didn't come into the story very well, her growth and character are stellar. Makoto, however... her whole "Good Girl Goes Bad" thing just felt well-rehearsed and a little forced. And how the fanbase always gushes about how she's the "Best Girl" and their "Waifu" got pretty tiresome. As I said, she's an okay example of teenage rebellion, but I feel Haru was much better escaping from her douce fiance and father who was probably willing to sell her into sexual slavery. *Edit*: After I got my thoughts together a little more, I thought of something else; Persona 5 was a really good game, but there's a lot of problems with the story and character progression (see Goro's subplot being left on a cliffhanger and Ryuji's backstory only being one of convenience, as seen in the scene after you defeat Shido). Frankly I kind of hope that the writers will do some serious retconning with the story if and when they release Crimson, because I really think 5 needs it.
Aight here i go on why i like her: she reminds me of those times at school where i did not have any friends at all until certain circumstances. She also develops from being someone that in some ways had a bit of distorted desires to someone who finally realized what her goal is. I know she is overrated, but i still enjoy even with her flaws.
The reason I like Makoto are several things, I sympathize with her struggle being stuck in middle management getting pressured from both sides. I empathize with her indecision and feeling that she can't do anything about it. I respect her drive to help others, doing whats right and her overcoming those issues. I also like how her indecision still comes up to show that its not something that goes away but you have move despite it.
So I had originally planned to pick Futaba as the girl for my first playthrough, then changed to Takemi for the beginning, then ended up with Makoto at the end, and I was oblivious to the whole Makoto fan base of the game at the time. My opinion as to why she is a great character is that I personally can relate to her on alot of levels, the stress from parents/guardians to do well academically had left me without friends for the longest time in my life, and when I got to university I was finally able to be free and explore both the world and things about myself. Makoto is very much the same, and I enjoyed that aspect of her. I think one of the reasons she's popular with the rest of the P5 populace is that she is Canonically the main girl/girl Joker/Akira dates, as evidenced with the scenes in the game and anime.
2:26 Makoto "being a jerk" is due to her lack of being able to properly socialize with people due to her sheltered upbringing, and competitive mentality hammered in via her sister, it's not that she's being an asshole on purpose, just that she doesn't know how to properly convey her feelings/thoughts. I still have the same problems at times too.
3:19 She does fit in within the context of the story, as she's probably the most realistic person to fit the theme of breaking free. All her life she's let other people control her choices, and didn't even know who she was as a person because of it, after finally opening her eyes with the Phantom Thieves, she starts to realize who she is as a person. None of the other characters from the Phantom Thieves are even close to being relatealbe at least for me.
Same thing, man. I was kinda dissipointed about Futaba, so I start the game and chose Takemi. Then I first met makoto I didn't like her in first place, but after she join the crew I was in love in her, but still finished first with Takemi ... and it's kinda sad what she's broke up with Joker. After this I watch how end up game with Makoto and I was happy what she's stay with mc, so right now my second playthrogh with Makoto as gf. Totally worth it
Makoto fits because she basically became a pawn of the corrupt adults against her own generation. She's someone who is in the right position to be a bystander to some awful things because she meets the standards set by society on their best students. And it also comes form having a *SPOILER* parentless home where the trauma of their father dying caused Sae to instill in her a harsh view of the world where you have to always be independent and powerful in order to not be stepped on. She comes from a position that is inclined to believe in authorities even if they are morally bankrupt like Kamagawa. She's somewhat of a parralel to Haru who is drastically dependent due to her upbringing until she gains independence from her fathers corrupt schemes.
Kaneshiro was straight up extorting half the student body and turning them into surf traffickers and THEN threatens to turn Sae into a fucking sex slave. How is that not a good enough reason to want revenge, but Morgana being locked in a cell for five minutes is a good reason for him to want revenge on Kamoshida? Also, she does fit? She just wants to change things from within the system. That’s her way of rebelling and challenging the status quo. She has plenty of great interactions with Ryuji, Ann, Joker, and Futaba. I don’t know what game Johneawesome was playing. Also, if half of the reason you hate a character is because they get a lot of fan content then maybe you just like…re-evaluate that. Like, sorry Makoto is popular. She’s got a good design, she’s one of the best gameplay wise, and she interacts with the story in ways that the other characters don’t. She has a weak confidant, but so does Ann and honestly most of the main party. The only stand out main party confidants are Ryuji and maybe Yusuke.
I understand why people find it weird for Makoto to be seen stalking the main characters at first, but I dont understand why they forget that it was the principle that forced her to stalk students or else he wont write her a letter of recommendation. She was visibly hesitant when she was told to stalk students.
Coming back to this video I got to say, John keeps saying “Makoto just doesn’t fit into the Phantom Thieves” like it’s supposed to validate his argument when the Persona series is all about groups of unlikely friends saving the day. I’m willing to admit that she does suffer from acute SPS (Second Protagonist Syndrome) and that the game does low key ship her with Joker.
@Gmoney 12 Yeah but this video has nothing to do with her. Plus the MakotoxJoker moments are still there in Royal so it's not like Kasumi completely negates my point.
she may not be shipped as hard as makoto but oh god she has SPS so hard that sometimes it feels like you are playing the supporting role, like fuck dude, First in the promos then in game here's the new "FEMC" that we must shove down your throat so hard that it ruins any actual good character she may have because her face just associates with FeMc. In short I am disgustingly bias because ATLS likes their new waifu too fuckin much. and cant stop saying "HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW WAIFU YET, HERES 50 SCENES WITH HER AT EVERY PHASE OF THE GAME"
In defense of her being shipped with Joker in-game, Makoto makes the most sense thematically for who Joker would smash. I mean, after all, you have the student council president that everyone looks up to and new kid everyone thinks is a violent criminal and they all hate. Them being together in the end fits with the themes really well.
Persona 5 ships every girl low key with Joker...just like every other Persona game! The only difference is some characters are more forward about it like Yukari in the Answer, and Rise throughout the game...
I definitely disagree with Johne. I think Makoto definitely fits well within the thematic scheme of Persona 5, just from a different angle. You don't have to be an edgy outcast to rebel. Like Fither explained, the Japan education system is very strict and rigid, almost dangerously so. So Makoto is trying to combat this toxic cycle of false perfectionism and do things the way she wants, not adhering to society's standard. And I think both of her dungeons fit - the Kaneshiro dungeon being where she finds the courage to forge her own identity and the Sae Nijiima palace being where the game follows up on the arc between her and her sister. I'm a little confused on the millions of stupid things Makoto did during the story and if anybody has any examples, feel free to let me know. Aside from the stupid things she did pre-Kaneshiro palace, which were intentionally stupid because you know... character development, I can't recall anything she did afterwards that was severely crippling to the Phantom Thieves. And the thing about her being a little bit of a know-it-all towards the other Phantom Thieves besides Joker, I think he's just taking that way too literally. She's not ACTUALLY being a bitch to her friends, most of the time it's done for comedic purposes, and she isn't trying to insult anyone. It's just like in your standard group of friends when you give each other shit but still love each other anyway because you're not really being serious. I think Makoto was clearly not offending anybody personally, and she's conceded to some of their suggestions a few times. If Makoto were trying to be offensive, you'd know. It's the difference between Ryuji and Morgana bantering vs when they're actually in a heated argument, you can tell the difference. I see Makoto's banter the equivalent of half-teasing, half-serious. Besides, with a colorful cast of characters, you kinda need the "normal" one who mainly observes the others' shenanigans to balance it out. Don't know why I went on this tangent. Makoto isn't my favorite P5 waifu or anything, although she is top 5. I do agree her confidant could've been handled better. While I like the idea of Makoto being wrong in terms of the shady boyfriend, I think the exclusion of Eiko for something else entirely would've helped a great deal.
Yeah, while I agree that Makoto did try to somewhat rebel against Japan education system, however, she still benefits so much from it. Like, she still get good grade and keep her position as a president and even without the recommendation letter, she should be able to get into good college thanks to the first two things I mentioned above. I mean, it's not like her school life has changed that much after joined the PT. She just went back to do what she did before, of course with more resolve to help people than ever. She obviously has no problem with how the system works before so she doesn't feel the need to do anything to abt that. The education system was never her problem to begin with as she has never mentioned having such a thing. It's people opinion and expectations on her that she cared about. I mean, take Haru as an example. She is an upper-class citizen and her father is a big name in the food industry yet she doesn't want to part of any of that. She actively rejects her privilege. So yeah, I cannot say that Makoto is a rebel or anything. And even if she is a rebel, her reasoning behind it is weaker and lacking substance compared with others as she still receive benefits from what ever she rebels against, not counted her feelings and self-esteemed get invalidated or anything.
I think a big part of Ann vs Makoto is on what basis you are measuring them. I think Ann has the better story arc (obviously), but does that mean I like her more? And I think that's a huge part of the question. If you are giving best girl to girl with the best story, hands down Ann. But I think when it comes to character design, Makoto is better. Sure, she doesn't have some dramatic backstory. But ultimately, it's a lot more realistic and relatable. You get to see her interests (action/Yakuza stuff). You see how she relates to her peers. While not giving her personal drama, I think that shows a lot of who she is. What do you really get out of Ann competing with another model? That's a very narrow circumstance. So I kinda view them as complimentary. Ann is a great story, that they unfortunate filled in with a generic character (see lazy dungeon costume design). Makoto is a thoughtful character design with an admittedly dull story. So if best girl=best story, Ann. Best girl=best design, Makoto.
zeroisnine kind of wish you could fuse makoto and ann. To me there kind of the same both wanting to help people (Ann by encouraging them and Makoto by bring justice). Probably going with makoto because she is the type I would be attracted to more in real life (hopefully she has a since of humor) and two I like Ann and Ryuji ship better then Ren and Ann.
I seriously doubt Makoto's to blame for that, I mean Haru was introduced so late that I honestly thought she wouldn't even be a real party member just like Akechi. Now that I think about it, turning Haru into a red herring would've been a better use of her character.
Oh, boy this was interesting to watch... all right, let's talk Makoto As Fither said, she does represent someone who was so used to school life that she doesn't know how to act differently, hence the comparison that she is a robot. In her confidant, if you tease her that she's a robot, it doesn't give you any points even though it's a good joke. That's because she, on some level, knows her condition and is frustrated about it. She holds in most of her emotion through the scenes because of the responsibility she placed upon herself. The only moments she lets loose are when she went after Kaneshiro and when she's in the Metaverse. These are the only moments in 18 years of existence where she could do whatever she wanted with no shackles holding her back. For finding Kaneshiro, I have one thing to say: it was dumb, yes, but the police wasn't able to find the man and they've been searching for him for a long time. How else do you find a mafia boss? Plus, I think her father's death may have something to do with the mafia, if you want to create a personal connection between the two. And that's something else I wanted to say: while a personal connection makes the arcs better, Makoto fights for her own justice, something she inherited from her father. In a way, she is like Joker. He didn't have anything to do with that woman and he still went to save her, didn't he? Besides, her greatest goal was changing Sae's heart. I could talk more, but typing on a small phone at 11 A.M. isn't the best way for me to describe her character and why I like her. If anyone that reads this has a counterargument, please do type it! I want to have a civil discussion about her, especially since I didn't even write down everything about her. If you read all of this, thank you and sorry for the long comment. I like her just a tad more than the other phantom thieves, and I love them all.
The thing I disliked most about her was how much the game pushed Makoto and Joker's relationship, it was so annoying and I just wished that a different/better p5 girl would get more screen time, it also makes me dread the p5 spinoffs cause after seeing how popular she is they'll push the relationship even more. She's also kinda bland, but her awakening was cool though.
Another Lime they never pushed the relationship onto you unless you actually chose her to be in a relationship. The only time that maybe happened was at Futaba’s palace when the two had eye contact. That’s about it when it comes to the actual game without choosing her as a relationship choice.
Actually,what I find funny is that Makoto is so static that friggin Ryuji is able to taunt her into doing things. She basically gets tricked into hacking Sae's computer by the equivalent of "you too scared bro !?". To which she responds as expected, takes the magical pendrive and proceeds to completely violate her sister's privacy (as well as commit the actual real-life crime of stealing police confidential data). Sure,you can shit all over the Ryuji/Morgana debacle, but Makoto joins the team after running half-cocked into a situation with no plan, and all over the game she keeps proving she just... never actually has a plan and runs straight ahead at the slight provocation...yet we are suppose to believe she's smart and always plans ahead because THEY TELL US she does.
My only real problem with Makoto was how she was forced into the group. Also taking over as if no one knew what the were doing. Like literally last palace they had a plan for stealing madarame's treasure(which to this day will always be badass since it was honestly the closest to a heist you actually get) and everyone is just like "yea she right." Like she grows with them but her beginning with the P.thieves just felt like some Mary Sue level of writing. P.S she's the only one with a unique type of persona
I disagree with your 'Makoto is the only one with unique Persona'. There are Futaba's Necronomicon which is literally a UFO. But I do agree that the game writing basically make her a Mary Sue.
I think Makoto just has difficulties adjusting to new people and is an incredibly gullible girl. She ends up caring for everyone and even her sister and goes to far lengths to find out the truth (which is extremely admirable) but ends up hurting people in the process. I think the bike just really represents her as a whole. Yohana -has chains (Makoto's feelings trapped and as while her inner desire of freedom) -her costume (to symbolize the alternative look than the "push-over goody two shoes" and is edgier or aggressive) -the bike itself (Makoto is amazing at thinking quick in situations and tends to charge ahead instead of waiting on the sidelines anymore) (she doesn't want to be behind her sister anymore and is trying to break free) -the name "Queen" (she's older and does demand respect and also leads everyone with a plan into battle while fighting along) that's just my personal opinion on that though.
Makoto seems like an obvious composite character to me. Originally, Hifumi Togo was a member of the Thieves, and was meant to be the tactical head of the group. Makoto was slated to be the emotional leader of the group, but not necessarily "the brains". With Hifumi demoted to a Confidant, Makoto took over the co-captain role, but also held onto her original characterization. This might explain why she acts so out-of-character during the Kaneshiro arc; she's acting in-character, but from an older version of the script.
From Producer Katsura Hashino, as translated by Persona Central: "Hifumi was planned to be involved in the game’s main scenario, eventually becoming a Phantom Thief herself as part of the main party. In the end, she was changed to just be a Confidant character, because the main scenario was already long at that point and that it would make it even longer."
Persona Central's translation didn't mention WHEN she was supposed to be a party member. As I said Makoto was already a party member before Hifumi was even created and not like what you said "took hifumi's role" because hifumi did not exist when Makoto was around. Here's Hifumi's profile from the art book. imgur.com/a/SdgIt
Hmm...interesting. I see that I mixed up Makoto and Hifumi's original drafts - Makoto was always "the brains" - but I think that quote pretty much confirms that she's a composite character: "We also had plans to add another more radically-minded strategist...We later integrated both ideas into Makoto." Makoto retains her more level-headed tactical mind, but inherited the radical, strategic savvy originally intended for an entirely separate character. That could explain why she acts uncharacteristically reckless at the beginning of the Kaneshiro arc.
i love johne as much as the next guy, but i hate it when people's arguments are just "its just dumb and weak" it just shows how little you know about the character or how much effort you actually put into trying to get to know the character.
Makoto doesn't fit because she is the only Phantom Thief without a personal motivation to steal the heart of the target. Joker, Ryuji and Ann go after Kamoshida because he targets and abuses them all, breaking Ryuji's leg because he doesn't want competition in the track team against his volleyball team, sexually harassing Ann because he wants to screw her and revealing Joker's 'criminal' past hoping to get him ostracised and expelled (any of which could and would result in suicides in real life - ostracising you then mutilating you and ruining your sporting career, threatening your best friend to pressure you into bed and exposing you as a violent delinquent who will snap at any moment to get you attacked, shunned by everyone around you and kicked out of the only school that will have you, leaving you with no prospects are all psychologically devastating things which have resulted in many suicides in the real world), with Shiho's attempted suicide (Ann's best friend and the first person to greet Joker with kindness instead of 'hey, you worthless piece of shit') being the last straw. Morgana is desperate to reach the bottom of Mementos because he believes the truth of who he is lies there. Yusuke goes after Madarame because he is his emotionally and possibly physically abusive foster father who ruined the lives of countless foster brothers and sisters, driving a few to suicide. Futaba is a self-loathing hermit who wants to die - she latches on to the Phantom Thieves as a final hope to face her demons. Haru goes after her father because he's become so obsessed with his ambition that he doesn't think twice about selling her to an abusive rapey asshole that just reeks of Kamoshida without the smiley face; she wants to escape that life. Makoto? Kaneshiro is a mob boss. She doesn't know him. She doesn't hate him or have any personal reason to go after him beyond 'I don't like mobsters'. This, I think, comes from Makoto being shoehorned into Hifumi's role - it would make sense for a mob boss to 'invest' in a popular shoji circuit, pressuring Hifumi to do exactly as told and eventually she is told to lose a match and she ignores Kaneshiro to win, and Kaneshiro sends his goons to put her mother in the hospital, warning Hifumi that she has to repay the money he lost on her, so she goes after him to finally get free from his influence. After Kaneshiro's heart is stolen and her mother is released from hospital she begins being the one to pressure Hifumi, leading into her confidant. It feels more organic and more 'Persona 5' than Makoto deciding she doesn't like Kaneshiro, getting herself and the PT into a shitty situation then awakening to Johanna out of 'pent-up frustration'. Every other Phantom Thief picks their target because of a personal desire to break free from something forced upon them by their tormentor, Makoto has no personal reasons to hate Kaneshiro before she blunders into his presence out of a completely reckless move. Kaneshiro didn't give two whits about Makoto before she strolled in with zero plans beyond telling him to stop using students as his drug mules. She didn't go after Kaneshiro out of some duty to the students, or because he personally screwed her over or anything - she confronted him because she snapped and got angry after being called useless. That is why Makoto does not fit with the theme of Persona 5. Her introduction is completely different to all the others - where they have personal suffering and lash out to end that suffering, she gets frustrated and blunders her way into a confrontation with her target.
So...you don't understand the concept for her arc at all. Kaneshiro was only the catalyst. She was struggled with pressure from adults and the real sense of justice. If you want the static story, where everyone awakens the same way, go back to P4 where everything is simple and repetitive.
- - her drive for changing kenshiros heart is that she believes that she has to protect the students, and also because of the amount of pressure she was getting from the students and the principle telling her all this shit. It doesn't have to be an extremely tragic and vengeful backstory like Ann or Yusuke. And did you forget the whole sae nijima thing. That was her true palace arc.
A debate to help for makoto is that people say she’s too attached to joker but I think that her attachment to joker is something that’s makes her a good character because she’s made to try to be not exactly an opposite to saw but a counter play to her where she is using someone to rely on rather than doing everything herself
Makoto is the only character that joins with strong convictions about Justice. The rest of the party joins for mostly selfish reasons, to get back at the adults that hurt them personally, and they stick around because they've become friends and feel like they've joined something bigger than themselves but have questionable motivations (Ryuji wants fame, Ann wants to become strong to motivate Shiho, Futaba wants to get revenge for her mom, etc.). Makoto wants to change Sae's heart too but says "I didn't bring it up because it was a selfish reason", and she investigates Kaneshiro because she genuinely wants to help her fellow students, though the pressure eventually got to her and she rushed into danger. She helps keep everyone on track and focused, as the rest of the party is usually bickering. Her confidant path suffers I think because she doesn't have much of an arc to travel, the type of justice she learned from her father already coincides with what the Phantom Thieves do. She's also arguably the only party member that is never not-useful in combat, as she has the highest agility and usually goes first, has AoE physical skills, AoE Nuclear skills (which is not a super common resist/immunity), AoE heals, can heal the worst status effects, and can buff the party's defense. She's not the best at any one thing, but she's good at everything. That being said, her design is a little "on the nose" for waifu bait (it's totally my type of waifu bait though). She's rides a nuclear motorcycle/transformer, beats enemies up with her fists, reads Sci-fi novels, asks you to take her to an arcade as a first date, has "Shadow Calculus" and "Shadow Factorization" as ability names (NERRRRRRRRRRD), is a super smart badass but awkwardly shy and cute in romantic situations, looks great in a bikini, is generally a nice person but hates evil with a passion, etc. The game does set her up pretty hard as the "canon" romance once she joins. I could see her totally following the Sae route of only focusing on her career and ditching Joker if he doesn't keep up with her ambitions though.
Makoto is good if you like strong independent women in the making and possibly crazy in bed. Even though her older sister is clearly a better choice. Futaba is good if you like damaged or eccentric younger girls that are like a little sister to you. And hope you like being the breadwinner and working in a cafe. Haru is good if you want a sweet girl who also can be a sugar mama/dom. But stops being a dom and justs gives you money just because Ann is good if you like fun and free-spirited girls who are seman demons in bed. Who is also a porn star in the making as well. So out of the main patry persona 5 girls pick your poison
I don't really agree with the not calling out bit. Yusuke pretty much contributed a lot of commentary about Makoto and her actions during her arc. He called her out when things got way out of hand after her capture. I understand why John says Makoto doesn't really fit. She's my fave and sometimes I feel she doesn't belong but I think that's the purpose of her character in general. She's the minority of those who can't fit in with others who don't fit in, if that makes sense. But I like her because she admitted that she lacked what the others have. Ren/Akira, Ann, Ryuji, Morgana, Yusuke, Futaba even Haru have charisma or (social skills). Makoto doesn't have that. She was basically taught that she didn't need it because that's not what the working world wants. She just has to be smart and that's it. There was no choice for her and choice in essence is what defines free will. I'd be pretty pissed about that too... Yes, she acted recklessly a lot... (which got on my nerves) but, can you fault really her for it? People do things to prove themselves all the time. Fither has a point about folks knocking her over basic things. Do you guys think if her story was different if her father was alive, would she still be the way she is now? No. If she was this independent bad-ass from the get go what else do you have? Her character would be pretty flat. Makoto dealt with things on her own. The one person who supposed to have her best interests at heart, basically sees her as a parasite. So Sae is no help in this case. Every character has somebody in their corner except Makoto. Yes, Madarame and Kunikazu were scum but Yusuke and Haru still has them. Ryuji has his mom, Ren and Futaba has Sojiro. Ann has her in-living guardian or nanny. Makato didn't get Sae until after the fact when learning about Shido and all that jazz that went down. By far, Makoto is the best character in terms of personal development. She's realistic and complex. Her standing is relatable (and I kinda identify with her to a degree).
Couldn't disagree with John more especially on the "better Niijiima" point. What did Sae even do the whole game? Screams at her sister and thinks only about winning to the point of fabricating evidence just to get her promotion and just being this unlikable character in general. Makoto on the other hand faced danger head on just because it's just and she was true to hear ideals. And that alone why Makoto is the better Niijima because her motivation to win is something other than success or social status. All of his argument sounds like he's jealous of the attention Makoto gets and that's wrong.
Not to be combative on an old comment. but sae actually does the bulk of her work in the latter half of the game. She actually takes joker back to sojiros after the casino. Builds a case against shido(properly), and quits her cushy job as a prosecutor to become a defence attorney. Also gets main characters charges dropped due to her trial with shido. And offered to be his attorney if he needs help. This all while the Phantom theives never actually taking her heart.
Yeah, he only really has two things to say about Makoto, her supposedly not fitting in with the group and her being overhyped, and he constantly repeats them throughout the whole video.
Makoto is boring. I'm sorry Fither but that's just how I feel. I don't hate her, far from it but if given the choice to hang out with one of the phantom thieves for a day each, Makoto would be the one I'm less thrilled to be with.
I think what makes Makoto appealing to many is, ironically, what makes her boring to others. The fact that her character arc is pretty ordinary. Take away the specific details, she's just a someone who tried to do the proper thing, and learns that she needs to cut loose a little more. In that since, she would fit more into P4 than P5. I like Ann (I have no clue why Haru gets so much love), but her story is straight out of a soap opera. And even if you scale it down, most people lives aren't so melodramatic that Ann's story is really relatable. Ann has a great story, and I think she's great, but Makoto speaks more to relatable circumstances.
Can't say I agree, I really liked most of the cast apart from Haru and the photographer Girl (Can't remember her name), they came across as annoying to me.
Honestly, as a Makoto fan, I have to agree. People are having on Makoto because she has SO much screen time, though it is Atlus' fault for that, and I really wouldn't mind to see Haru on screen more. Then again,the time management in persona 5 isn't that great, we have no time to get close with the characters though,I'm sure it is fixed in the P5R game
Since nobody seems to be pointing this out, Makoto, DOES fit the theme of outsiders, albeit in a more nuanced way. She is outcasted BECAUSE she's student council president.
Exactly. It's not like anyone treats her any different to other Phantom thieves, before she joins them. Basically, the whole Kaneshiro debacle happend when she goes all "fuck the school, fuck the rules and fuck YOU," to Ann.
Actually, people ALWAYS seem to ignore the NPC dialogue scattered through the game. Persona 5 is strange because a lot of details are actually entirely optional dialogue (just look at all the news and NPC dialogue about deaths and mental shutdowns regarding competitors of Okumura foods all through the game). For example, during the Kamoshida events you can explore the school and in-between all the hate Joker gets you actually learn that the school has actual respect for Makoto as this super smart Student Council President (remember the position is not chosen by the school, it's a student-elected seat). People in the library were actually singing her praises and even pining for her attention,and the student council officials can be found at some points mentioning how she works too hard and worrying about her. It's after Kamoshida that people start whispering if maybe she knew, and the fact she kept being called by the Principal began to create rumors that she was being tasked with protecting teacher secrets. By this stage it was just small rumors but by the time Madarame falls and the Phantom Thieves start becoming a hot topic more and more people began to point as her as having betrayed the student body and sided with the teachers. Basically, Makoto wasn't hated from the start. She was popular and decently liked by the school, both teachers and students. It's only after Kamoshida's fallout that things begin to spiral down for her. In an ironic twist, it's actually The PT's fault that she began to feel useless to begin with.
@@LeonGun8 Nah, the PT is not fault here. Makoto is the one at fault for ignoring her responsibility as a student council president. She know what Kamoshida did but do nothing about it because she couldn't care enough. I mean, she admitted that herself and it is her exact words: "I had my suspicions...but if I had cared enough I would've done something." And it is not counted that she don't have any proof against him if she did try to help the students. She didn't do her damn job in the first place so it's not surprising that other students shit on her like that. While I feel bad for Makoto being called useless by Sae, which is pretty fucked up, I do not have sympathy for her when everyone in school do the same thing. Just considered it karma on her side.
Oh,I did not mean it's their fault as in "they dragged her into it". I meant that dragging out the corrupted faculty ended up with her on the wrong side of the fallout. It's not the Student Council's issue to judge the actions of the faculty. That's the Principal's job. The Student Council is meant to provide the tools for the students to live a proper school life. They help run the school events and everything that is "student-run" so that the faculty are unhindered and can focus on what they are supposed to do, which is teaching. Makoto could have found out what the Director and Kamoshida were hiding if she had followed the breadcrumbs and did some deep digging but she's also a student. The Director would have just shut her up anyway and Sae would have called her a fool for throwing away her future for "misguided justice". Basically,what I am saying is that while I don't precisely like Makoto (she's preachy and a know-it-all who doesn't actually do much), it's not like she actually was in a position where she could realistically accuse the faculty of anything. In fact, her abbrasive reaction to the Thieves at first comes precisely because they acted the way she wished she would act but didn't dare to. She would have loved to throw caution to the wind and just help others, but her sister would have just called her a fool for it (which Sae precisely did when Makoto began to question if the PT were correct and if their dad would have sided with them)..
I know i'm kinda late but I disagree with Johne saying the reason makoto went to Kaneshiro's is shit. Sae (her sister and possibly only close family) literally said she is just a load. Plus she knowingly was being blackmailed by kobayakawa while basically acting like a robot for all her life. I mean, this is killing yourself material. I disagree with other things but this is the easiest opinion I can express. Ps: Okumura's palace is worst, not in terms of its place in the lore but level design. And morgana's fight is easily the worst part of the story.
Johne gave almost no good points to support his argument. All he did was ramble on why he didn't like her. For example I have no clue what he is talking about when he says she did 17 dumb things when I only ever remember her doing ONE thing.
For me, it still a three-way tie between Makoto, Ann, and Takemi. Like damn, Takemi would be the clear winner for me if the protagonist wasn't a teenager.... Makoto is cool tho and I like her a lot, despite the glaring flaws in her actions vs personality which I attribute more to her emotions and lack of Street-smarts.
no offense but most of the complaints about Makoto's character that are made clearly come from a place of someone who has never been in an extremely high pressure family situation where they are expected to succeed at all costs and been conditioned basically from birth to do work and school and nothing else. I don't think Makoto is "da best gurl" or anything but seeing Sae say things to Makoto like "you're nothing but a drain on my life" or (when Makoto mentions she has been thinking about how her father would see the Phantom Thieves) "why do you have time to think about those things? Do your homework" reminded me (painfully) of my own childhood and really let me connect to her as a character. Also, the point of her confidant story is supposed to be indicative of her coming to the understanding that she has the capability to choose a future for herself--and then realizing that choosing to continue what she was already doing (but now because she is personally driven to do it and not due to external pressures) is a perfectly valid choice. She's breaking the chains of society in a different way than many others, but that doesn't make it any less important or mean it takes any less internal strength. also you like ann so opinion discarded
I enjoyed this civilized discussion. nice to hear both sides of the discussion. Lovely vid, gents! Genuinely enjoyed (in case peeps thought I was being sarcastic)
I cannot believe that I am genuinely fucking furious about other peoples opinions on a fictional character and it makes me even madder that it makes me mad in the first place. It also makes me hate Johne and i do not want to.
Prokisli Krov Studio Production Inc. Well let make it easier, why don't you just hate me because I don't like Makoto at all, not her character not even her design at all, I can admit she's pretty but she's not for me. Also similar situation with Ann she's an ok character but I she doesn't attract me. And I think both are way too overrated specially Makoto.
I think Makoto’s reason for being a phantom thief is probably the most unique out of all of them. See, she isn’t outcasted from society, she’s held in the spotlight. The problem is, that’s a fuck ton of pressure. She can’t act out in anyway, or else she gets looks, and scolded, and all that. Being seen as “the smart kid” or “the paragon of intelligence”, it can really give you imposter syndrome, thus, she rebels.
Idk, I love makoto, I think caneshiro is a bit weak but I understand that makoto cares a lot about her position as a student council president and so learning that some students are being abused by him, she takes it seriously, and also sae’s palace I’d say is very much about how makoto wants the exact opposite, she doesn’t like to cheat and doesn’t like how her sister treats her life but also relates to it bc she also fights to win no matter what, and also how she has to live up to her sister’s reputation and how eggman principal was manipulating her Though I gotta admit, her confidant kinda sucks
I love Makoto, she got the brains, the brawns, the looks and a motorcycle persona. Plus, she's the only confident member of the team who actually thinks with a levelheaded manor. The Phantom Thieves would be fucked without someone with her level of brains. I all have a personal bias to like her that you might find weird. Her design reminds me so much of another character from my favorite game Shadow Hearts. They both have brown hair, red eyes, leather outfits, use knuckles for punches and kicks, and have dead dads they think about constantly. His name is Yuri Hyuga and Makoto reminds me so much of him. Like I said it's weird but I can't help it.
I like Makoto she’s definitely my second best girl the number 1 for me is Futaba cuz i had depression and I legit felt like Futaba was literally me inside the game and if u feel like futaba is a sister for u good for u!
Holyshit johneawesome talking with two great guys about Makoto and it's a great discussion back and forth? Excellent and damnit now every time I'm going to be looking at Makoto all I'm going to be thinking about is lady from Devil May Cry so thanks.
With the two Makoto scenes ; Futabas palace and Sojiros house, The palace scene might be better with Futaba arriving earlier in the Palace and Joker saving her from being crushed rather than Makoto, because it adds no fanservice The group is already there to save Futaba. The house scene might also be better if theu built up this friendship between Ann and Makoto as well with Makoto grabbing Anns arm rather tuan Jokers.
I think Johne lost most of this argument by failing to explain, or substantiate to any capacity, his biggest claim: that Makoto does not "fit" with the Phantom Thieves' thematic of rebellion. And by failing to name any of the "seventeen times" she majorly fucks up. I doubt there are many that appreciate Makoto's Confidant very much, and if this debate was about nothing BUT her confidant, than it's case closed. No one gives a fuck about Eiko, and her desperate need for attention and family situation doesn't do anything to make it seem like Makoto actually learns something useful from her, nor does any of that evoke any sort of pathos in the player (or at least in me). The stalking thing was cute because animu, because Makoto herself is cute, and because I guess she technically doesn't do it for enjoyment. And being a social klutz, she thought following you around with a manga covering up her face is really cute. Aside from that, I do agree that Altus/the game itself kinda pushes Makoto down players' throats with how much screen time she is given compared to other characters. Though to be fair, I think this was done mostly to portray how Sae's heart was beginning to be distorted, as there were few scenes were it just focused on Makoto by herself at home. And Makoto isn't painted in a perfect light all of the time; she admits to Ann in that one scene they had that she was a cunt to the gang because she didn't know how to deal with the stress, and everyone fucking reprimands her for doing something so stupid to get to Kaneshiro. Also, I don't really think she gets any special treatment from anyone in the PT, hell if anyone receives that kinda treatment it would be Futaba (not that I resent her for it). I think her point of her character, rebelling against societal expectations placed upon you by others, for whatever reason, and defying them to find what YOU want fits like a glove with the PT, and with the theme of the game.
between p5 and p5r I've played the games 9 times and every time I do a playthrough I HATE how Makoto comes into the group. the whole stalking and blackmailing really does nothing to endear her character to me. also she takes up the brains of the group role, often overruling Joker's place. she's useful in boss battles but even then she tends to go first before Joker so I don't like using her much. I like the addition in P5r because it addresses how she came into the group but aside from that, she's my least favorite of the p5 girls
Minato Yuki The difference between Makoto and Futaba is the way they acted towards the phantom thieves. Makoto was so pretentious and cocky, and she seemed to think she was above them. Even after she joined the group she was always like 'Just as I thought' and always got this big brained holier than thou portrayal. With Futaba, the initial blackmail was because she saw no other way out from her own internal torment. She also planned to help them at first with the aid of the calling card and the name, whereas Makoto was making them do all the work themselves like slaves until the phantom thieves (rightfully) called her useless. Futaba is also just a more charming and loveable character. She's big-brained but doesn't act like a high and mighty bitch.
Mikey 596 How is saying “just as I thought” holier than thou? Everyone on the team says stuff like “I knew it” or “eureka” or something like that. Can you give me more examples of her acting like she’s better than you?
Minato Yuki The cylinder lock-styled room, the whole Queen shebang, 'I knew I was an honorary customer, so they would let me in' (which is just repeated from morgana's plan but she says it like it was her own), her just constantly taking charge in most every scene after her addition. It wasn't her simply saying just as I thought, I was the constant feeling that she's better and a special snowflake. The other characters (except morgana) rarely if ever feel like they're constantly showing how they're better than everyone else. I know that's not Makoto's intention, it's just the way she comes across.
Mikey 596 Well who should take charge?I mean it’s not really in character for anyone else to really do it besides joker, Mona, and Akechi. And you can’t exactly hold full conversations. So it’s basically a split between Makoto or Morgana for most of the game sense Akechi is only there for two palaces. I don’t really know what else they were supposed to do.
Makotos dungeon is important because its about her proving her sister wrong and being able to be on saes level considering how sae treats her, makoto being able to match or even 1-up sae is a very important inspirition for her introduction.
Imma be honest But makoto was my least favourite shes kinda flat to me and here confidant was boring as hell and wasnt about her much (Im ready to wake up to a bunch of makoto fans and get shanked for saying this) shes just boring and doesnt have much going on I dont hate her but i just dont love her either
Like i get the whole expectations stuff and that and her just going fuck it near the end and like i want to be my own person like i thought that was freaking cool but i feel let down that she just didnt do much after that i feel like she had so much emotion at the start but then she kinda looses the touch and then gets it back and so on same with haru it felt so lacking to me she could have been better
I'm more of a harem man myself so I don't really get the best girl debates. *BUT* , if I had to choose a girl I would pick Makoto because I feel like I would also get Sae as a bonus.
Just going to leave this here P5 waifu tier list Official edition S rank Tae,Hifumi,Kawakami A rank Makato,Futaba ,Ann B rank Sae,Haru,Caroline C rank Chihaya,Justine D rank Ohya
I see people on Reddit hate Makoto because she's overshadow other characters, (didn't know if it's true or not because I didn't play the game) but for me, i didn't like her because she's a priestess confidant which mean she's sucks at cooking same like Fuuka & Yukiko
Nothing linking kaneshiro to the story maybe but has a lot linking him to Makoto's story. The bad guy her sister couldn't get, hinted that kaneshiro belongs to the same crime organization that had her father killed and is threataning the members of the student body she is responsible for as student council president.
Oh right something I forgot to mention (since ironically her actual Confidant is the least discussed thing in the video), the rewards her Confidant gives actually suck and don't have anything to do with Makoto. They are all navigator/battle related, which seems like shit you would get from Futaba, but for whatever reason you get them from Makoto. It's also one of the few times when P5 took out a common sense gameplay mechanic like the game just remembering what enemies are weak to and making it a confidant bonus. Either way the abilities you get from the confidant are a really secondary thing that we take into account unless its amazingly helpful like Hifumi's or Kawakami's, but the lack of that killer ability does knock the confidant down a peg. In conclusion im right johne eats boogers.
Ok I believe you
7:30 I agree with you Fither, but she's not just a commentary on Japanese school, but also probably any helcopter parents in general, as I'm from Canada, my parents are from Philippines and Canada, with Grandparents from Japan, Scotland,France, Ireland, Spain and China, but most of my family takes from the Asian side, and are strict and put alot of pressure on me to succeed academically, and until I was in Uni was under alot of pressure.
Fither Oh yeah her more helpful social link abilities were basically geared towards the Navigator role which that's not her role that's Futaba's. Methinks Atlus got drunk at one point down the road.
You wanna talk shit confidant bonuses, just look at Ohya
+circular7
Yusuke isn't serious, he's deadpan, there's a difference. The jokes he makes with Futaba? The lobsters? the church scene?
Yusuke wrote down the license plate number when Makoto got caught and throughout the story he was usually the first to point out things but unfortunately it usually gets ignored by the group. For example he made the connection that Alibaba was Egyptian linked and if that was acknowledged amongst the group they could've guessed Futaba's palace just based on that. He also was one of the first to point out the Okumura food case was suspicious. So never bully my boy Yusuke again ;_;
Yusuke is Best guy
Tsuninator yusuke best boy in persona, so underrated :(
agreed
Tsuninator He isn't a detective to do this shit.
Goro Akechi Now with extra syrup he was by far my favorite.
Persona team, pls let us date zeh bois
Don't forget how Yusuke draws 'Every' calling cards for the phantom thieves since Madarame's palace, and also designed their little team logo for them.
More liked Yusuke revised the Logo. Ryuji designed the first version. Yeah the quality sucked but I hardly think that, given the job from scratch" Yusuke would design a flaming tophat. It just doesn't seem like his style to me.
AtomBacon Ryugi’s was better tbh 😂
@J R D Stop the cap
Sojiro is by far the best girl. All of your other waifus are inferior.
DAMN IT, you got us there....
Hoo boy, that's put the aetheists in checkmate.
Sojiro isn't your waifu but you are Sojiro's waifu.
I dunno what you're talking about cuz Sojiro is best Brojiro.
Nah, Gun Dad is best girl
My mains points in case anyone wants to be mad
*Makoto has a bad confident
* Doesn't really get along with anyone but Joker and Ann one time
* Express bias from Atlus for Makoto (two dungeons centered around her) and Makoto clinging to Joker in cutscenes
*Her dungeon is the worst
*Everyone in game ignores dumb things Makoto does but is known as being smart
*Legit zero memes
FINALLY A MAN WITH GOOD TASTE
JohneAwesome omg you are right, there are legit 0 makoto memes wtf
Damn it, some solid points there. She's my favorite but I will admit they could have done better with her confidant
TELL EM JOHN PREACH THAT GRACE FROM THE LORD HIMSELF. But to be fair I dont think Ann has memes
I haven't seen any Ann memes, Goro stole them all
I saw one comment on reddit about this that I really agree with. Makoto’s reason for staying with the group is very much the same as Joker’s. She stays with the group because she genuinely likes to help people, which is what got joker all in it to begin with
War of the Waifu: Fither's Rage
Featuring that Persona
4 Guy from the JohneAwesome Channel
P5 Waifu wars are tough. Tougher than other Persona games.
@@RoutaAskel Not persona 3
@@RoutaAskel Persona 3 waifus could CLAP P5 waifus
@@RoutaAskel Exept Fuuka
Fellas we all know the best P5 confidant/girl is Igor
Futables Sakura That nose😏
I see you're a man of culture as well
Descartes' Apparition 😏🍆🍑
Ok
The velvet room by far has its worst appearance in 5p
I like Makoto a lot! But the main thing that bugs me about her is that she kinda falls into this Special Snowflake type:
- She gets a LOT of attention even after her arc
- She just so happens to know everything, understand everything in a matter of seconds and of course also question things nobody has thought of
- She gets the most unique Persona (along with Futaba, but I hope you understand what I mean)
- Her codename is "Queen" and everyone treats her like one
And you know, these things wouldn't bug me as much if she didn't ALSO have the connection to Sae. She's just this "special" kind of character and I think it's sad that, especially after she awakens, other characters get left behind. Like I said, I love Makoto, but she's a bit over the top.
Actually, while I do get a littleannoyed by the special treatment, if we're to be completely truthful here she's NOT actually as important as the game sometimes presents her as. For example,in the Casino she's barely important and Sae's Shadow doesn't even pays her any mind (If anything the whole Palace is about Akechi showing off with Futaba also showing off her technical skills). Even most of the plan that surrounds the Casino heist is cooked up by Morgana and Futaba with Makoto's main contribution being the extraction of the information regarding the underground interrogation room and even then Futaba also further comments that she slipped upand forgot about the Cognitive Akechi that would have existed, which I believe Yusuke is the one who points it out. Aside from that she did get the data with the police investigaton, but that's because Sae had the data and Makoto just happens to be Sae's sister (again it is Futaba who gives her the software to clone the HDD and the one who decrypts the data).
And from that point after she's... not exactly given much spotlight. Sure, she acts as the temporary leader while Joker is in jail but it's implied that they all pulled their weight toget Joker out of jail (and it's implied it was Sae who got the charges dropped).
In all honesty, the character who is the " special snowflake" of the game is Futaba, which is impresive considering she joins halfway through the game.
LeonGun8 Honestly, I have to agree with you a lot here. The problem wasn't really Makoto herself in Sae's palace for me, it's more like the fact that she HAS the connection in the first place. When I played the game a second time you just notice how much she knows and talks and does all the important things (before Futaba really starts to join in) and it's really annoying sometimes. I do agree though that Futaba kind of replaced that role after August though. Idk I'm overall just salty that our first four members and ESPECIALLY HARU never got to do anything meaningful after their respective arcs. Yeah there was Shido's palace but some of them were jokes and I kinda wanted something more? (except Ryuji's moment ofc) Maybe I'm asking for too but idk
This can actually be rectified in that eventual re-release that we all know is inevitable (Persona 3 had 2: FES and P3P, and Persona 4 had Golden). Adding some events between Joker (and some of the PT) with Haru after her original introduction during the failed festival would help her character greatly. In fact, they could easily insert her by having hershowing an interest in Leblanc (and thus interacting with Joker over the summer like Akechi) because it is an actual THING that Haru had an interest in Coffee shops due to the origins of Okumura Foods. It's an incredibly simple way of inserting her into Joker and the PT's path during summer vacation without having to alter her story to a extreme.
And yeah, adding some more story scenes for Ann would be good, seeing as she really is the odd-man out of the group since Yusuke actually gets several optional scenes during the summer. Perhaps it'd be much simpler to say that Joker, Ann and Ryuji should get more hang-out scenes on their own after Makoto joins, and it's not like it's even something that's outrageous to ask because Ann and Ryuji were old classmates from middle-school. They tend to like hanging out together even if they don't outright say it and it felt very natural how it was always the three of them even when Yusuke wasn't around, which is something that gets lost after Makoto arrives. And that's the key thing, it gets lost AFTER Makoto, for no real reason too. After Makoto joins it's either All PT or optional scenes, until Futaba shows up where it changes to all PT, Joker/Morgana and Futaba, or all optional scenes (except for the lone exception which is the Hawaii trip boys scene and room scene).
Everything here except for loving her
@Devenn Eng to me there is kinda a difference futaba definitely gets special treatment but shes shown more of a little sister like nanako and she kinda gets treated like a kid by makoto despite futaba also being smart
i like both the characters though makoto does annoy me alot but they do get special treatment but in a different way from my perspective
My pros about Makoto:
Smart enough to devise strategies out of nowhere.
She’s not Morgana.
A bike persona.
I actually like her confidant. I found it relatable.
She seems super intense.
I actually do like how mean she can be.
Cons:
The whole “not knowing anything about being a teenager” thing.
Her bike persona stops being a bike.
She kisses Joker’s ass a lot of the time. Basically, her thing was to stop submitting to people in power, but then she does the same for Joker.
I kinda wish her and her sister were closer to make Nijima’s palace a little more emotional for the player. It feels like just another job besides the occasional “Sis...”
shadowbox141 They never show us she actually rides a bike outside Metaverse.
Seta Entertainment Animation I just like that her persona is a bike, that’s all. Almost every other persona is a person/animal/monster etc and when she uses her persona in battle, she rides it vs other personas just floating behind the user. I just think it’s cool how hers is different.
The “not knowing how to be a teen” thing is real. She has no friends and her sister is a helicopter parent. Oh and her actual parents are dead.
boerton I get that it's real. I'm just personally not a fan of the trope. These are just my opinions.
shadowbox141 I mean it makes more sense she rides her 'bike' to school than walking. Unless Makoto has/had one but doesn't get on it like how EVA does it.
This is a very "passionate" video. I think both sides of this debate had very good points. And I really respect the bravery to point out Makoto's flaws. Because out of all the fandoms, Makoto lovers typically tend to be the the most violent. Lol!
If haru had more screen time she would win best girl easily. What little time she had I loved. Can't wait til p5r
No tho
@@jaykell2677 LMAO Still best girl
Wrong
still not enough screentime, only an extra month
Well we got it in Strikers!
And Haru is most DEFINITELY the best girl now, just cemented it even further.
this is 2 years late but im gonna say it anyway cause im bored and this is important to me.
Makoto's inner conflict is a representation of my own inner conflict, and I was so happy to see it. For me, i'm a 1st generation African american, and of course, my parents want the absolute best for me, even if it means sacrificing my own happiness. This is an ideal that they have reflected in me to the extreme. Throughout my elementary school life, the only thing I did was school and computers. I was always doing something pertaining to my schoolwork, whether it was reading, studying, etc. Because of this, I was bullied heavily throughout elementary, and most of middle school. Everyday I would come to school, sit in the back of the class, and just did everything I could to get good grades. I ended up skipping kindergarten halfway through the year and went ahead to first grade, where they wanted to move me up again, but it was too late in the school year for it. I had no personal life besides computers. I remember since 2nd grade, me coming back from school every weekend and playing CS:GO, till my parents eventually had to drag me off the computer. To this day its one of the only things that make me happy. As you could have guessed, having being bullied most of my school career has made me very antisocial. For the most part, I hate people. I see nothing but the worst qualities in them, and I rarely ever speak, even when needed. When I got to 6th grade, I tried to change this, but only ended up getting shut down again. People wouldn't talk to me, I was treated as irrelevant, and got bullied more. It was near the end of 6th grade that it had finally hit me: I hated myself. I couldn't stand myself. Every day I would wake up and tell my mom I didn't want to go to school anymore, and I would always cry when she forced me to go anyway, every night I would cry myself to sleep (wish I was joking lol), and I would beg for me to be anyone else. Fortunately, I have video games to fall back on, but a person like Makoto doesn't have that, this is the only life they know. A life with no freedom, only mindless ambition that only ever leads to self hate. That is why I was fucking ecstatic when Makoto's awakening scene happened. I was so happy that a person with a backstory like me, could finally be acknowledged. Anyway, since I basically just wrote a big essay on why my life sucks and I hate myself, I should mention that you don't need to worry about me, I'm doing fine right now. Sorry for making you read all of this lol
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Do you know Jesus Christ?
I feel my guy we here for you
This is a year after you wrote this, but I just wanted to say that I feel you man. Some people just don't get that every single person is special and should be acknowledged. Even if you don't like that sort of person or their personality, everyone deserves love and care, because the lack-there-of is what causes the negativity. Again, this is a year late, but I really felt what you wrote.
makoto is the best... makoto yuki aka p3 protagonist that is
jason wu you shall be spoken about in legends for aeons to come
A true statement right there
😁😁😁
I agree 100% :3
jason wu Agreed
I think the confidant should have been more about her sis and dad because i feel we would learn more about her and it would be more interesting
20:32 "Wait, Makoto can't do anything alone. That's right!"
This is my favorite part of the entire video.
I mean, she’s also nice to Hifumi in the one scene where you go to the bookstore.
Makoto's okay, but she's not my favorite. That honor goes to Haru; although she didn't come into the story very well, her growth and character are stellar. Makoto, however... her whole "Good Girl Goes Bad" thing just felt well-rehearsed and a little forced. And how the fanbase always gushes about how she's the "Best Girl" and their "Waifu" got pretty tiresome. As I said, she's an okay example of teenage rebellion, but I feel Haru was much better escaping from her douce fiance and father who was probably willing to sell her into sexual slavery.
*Edit*: After I got my thoughts together a little more, I thought of something else; Persona 5 was a really good game, but there's a lot of problems with the story and character progression (see Goro's subplot being left on a cliffhanger and Ryuji's backstory only being one of convenience, as seen in the scene after you defeat Shido). Frankly I kind of hope that the writers will do some serious retconning with the story if and when they release Crimson, because I really think 5 needs it.
Aight here i go on why i like her: she reminds me of those times at school where i did not have any friends at all until certain circumstances. She also develops from being someone that in some ways had a bit of distorted desires to someone who finally realized what her goal is. I know she is overrated, but i still enjoy even with her flaws.
The reason I like Makoto are several things, I sympathize with her struggle being stuck in middle management getting pressured from both sides. I empathize with her indecision and feeling that she can't do anything about it. I respect her drive to help others, doing whats right and her overcoming those issues. I also like how her indecision still comes up to show that its not something that goes away but you have move despite it.
So I had originally planned to pick Futaba as the girl for my first playthrough, then changed to Takemi for the beginning, then ended up with Makoto at the end, and I was oblivious to the whole Makoto fan base of the game at the time. My opinion as to why she is a great character is that I personally can relate to her on alot of levels, the stress from parents/guardians to do well academically had left me without friends for the longest time in my life, and when I got to university I was finally able to be free and explore both the world and things about myself. Makoto is very much the same, and I enjoyed that aspect of her. I think one of the reasons she's popular with the rest of the P5 populace is that she is Canonically the main girl/girl Joker/Akira dates, as evidenced with the scenes in the game and anime.
2:26 Makoto "being a jerk" is due to her lack of being able to properly socialize with people due to her sheltered upbringing, and competitive mentality hammered in via her sister, it's not that she's being an asshole on purpose, just that she doesn't know how to properly convey her feelings/thoughts. I still have the same problems at times too.
3:19 She does fit in within the context of the story, as she's probably the most realistic person to fit the theme of breaking free. All her life she's let other people control her choices, and didn't even know who she was as a person because of it, after finally opening her eyes with the Phantom Thieves, she starts to realize who she is as a person. None of the other characters from the Phantom Thieves are even close to being relatealbe at least for me.
Same thing, man. I was kinda dissipointed about Futaba, so I start the game and chose Takemi.
Then I first met makoto I didn't like her in first place, but after she join the crew I was in love in her, but still finished first with Takemi ... and it's kinda sad what she's broke up with Joker.
After this I watch how end up game with Makoto and I was happy what she's stay with mc, so right now my second playthrogh with Makoto as gf. Totally worth it
Vasalis Erretti I agree one hundred precent with you, I just related to her so much
Agreed I had no idea there was even this big fanbase for makoto I just found her very relatable
I really like Makoto, but it sucks that she is so oversaturated. People just tend to grow hate for overly popular things.
Makoto fits because she basically became a pawn of the corrupt adults against her own generation. She's someone who is in the right position to be a bystander to some awful things because she meets the standards set by society on their best students. And it also comes form having a *SPOILER*
parentless home where the trauma of their father dying caused Sae to instill in her a harsh view of the world where you have to always be independent and powerful in order to not be stepped on. She comes from a position that is inclined to believe in authorities even if they are morally bankrupt like Kamagawa. She's somewhat of a parralel to Haru who is drastically dependent due to her upbringing until she gains independence from her fathers corrupt schemes.
Kaneshiro was straight up extorting half the student body and turning them into surf traffickers and THEN threatens to turn Sae into a fucking sex slave. How is that not a good enough reason to want revenge, but Morgana being locked in a cell for five minutes is a good reason for him to want revenge on Kamoshida?
Also, she does fit? She just wants to change things from within the system. That’s her way of rebelling and challenging the status quo. She has plenty of great interactions with Ryuji, Ann, Joker, and Futaba. I don’t know what game Johneawesome was playing.
Also, if half of the reason you hate a character is because they get a lot of fan content then maybe you just like…re-evaluate that. Like, sorry Makoto is popular. She’s got a good design, she’s one of the best gameplay wise, and she interacts with the story in ways that the other characters don’t. She has a weak confidant, but so does Ann and honestly most of the main party. The only stand out main party confidants are Ryuji and maybe Yusuke.
I understand why people find it weird for Makoto to be seen stalking the main characters at first, but I dont understand why they forget that it was the principle that forced her to stalk students or else he wont write her a letter of recommendation. She was visibly hesitant when she was told to stalk students.
They always overlook that part... it's so dumb. Basically, people pick and choose things they wanna focus on and use as hate material
The real reason, why I like her so much is because she uses a revolver, Peacemaker in particular...
Team Shalashaska :)
CanZ9 What about R8 8/8 revolver from CS:GO before the nerf?
Imagine Makoto got a line about loving to slam a long silver bullet into a well-greased chamber?
Instant AO rating.
Coming back to this video I got to say, John keeps saying “Makoto just doesn’t fit into the Phantom Thieves” like it’s supposed to validate his argument when the Persona series is all about groups of unlikely friends saving the day. I’m willing to admit that she does suffer from acute SPS (Second Protagonist Syndrome) and that the game does low key ship her with Joker.
Exactly if it wasn’t for Sees, I bet Akihiko and Fuuka wouldn’t be seen together at school or Mitsuru and Junpei
@Gmoney 12 Yeah but this video has nothing to do with her. Plus the MakotoxJoker moments are still there in Royal so it's not like Kasumi completely negates my point.
she may not be shipped as hard as makoto but oh god she has SPS so hard that sometimes it feels like you are playing the supporting role, like fuck dude, First in the promos then in game here's the new "FEMC" that we must shove down your throat so hard that it ruins any actual good character she may have because her face just associates with FeMc.
In short I am disgustingly bias because ATLS likes their new waifu too fuckin much. and cant stop saying "HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW WAIFU YET, HERES 50 SCENES WITH HER AT EVERY PHASE OF THE GAME"
In defense of her being shipped with Joker in-game, Makoto makes the most sense thematically for who Joker would smash. I mean, after all, you have the student council president that everyone looks up to and new kid everyone thinks is a violent criminal and they all hate. Them being together in the end fits with the themes really well.
Persona 5 ships every girl low key with Joker...just like every other Persona game! The only difference is some characters are more forward about it like Yukari in the Answer, and Rise throughout the game...
I definitely disagree with Johne. I think Makoto definitely fits well within the thematic scheme of Persona 5, just from a different angle. You don't have to be an edgy outcast to rebel. Like Fither explained, the Japan education system is very strict and rigid, almost dangerously so. So Makoto is trying to combat this toxic cycle of false perfectionism and do things the way she wants, not adhering to society's standard. And I think both of her dungeons fit - the Kaneshiro dungeon being where she finds the courage to forge her own identity and the Sae Nijiima palace being where the game follows up on the arc between her and her sister.
I'm a little confused on the millions of stupid things Makoto did during the story and if anybody has any examples, feel free to let me know. Aside from the stupid things she did pre-Kaneshiro palace, which were intentionally stupid because you know... character development, I can't recall anything she did afterwards that was severely crippling to the Phantom Thieves.
And the thing about her being a little bit of a know-it-all towards the other Phantom Thieves besides Joker, I think he's just taking that way too literally. She's not ACTUALLY being a bitch to her friends, most of the time it's done for comedic purposes, and she isn't trying to insult anyone. It's just like in your standard group of friends when you give each other shit but still love each other anyway because you're not really being serious. I think Makoto was clearly not offending anybody personally, and she's conceded to some of their suggestions a few times. If Makoto were trying to be offensive, you'd know. It's the difference between Ryuji and Morgana bantering vs when they're actually in a heated argument, you can tell the difference. I see Makoto's banter the equivalent of half-teasing, half-serious. Besides, with a colorful cast of characters, you kinda need the "normal" one who mainly observes the others' shenanigans to balance it out.
Don't know why I went on this tangent. Makoto isn't my favorite P5 waifu or anything, although she is top 5. I do agree her confidant could've been handled better. While I like the idea of Makoto being wrong in terms of the shady boyfriend, I think the exclusion of Eiko for something else entirely would've helped a great deal.
Yeah, while I agree that Makoto did try to somewhat rebel against Japan education system, however, she still benefits so much from it. Like, she still get good grade and keep her position as a president and even without the recommendation letter, she should be able to get into good college thanks to the first two things I mentioned above. I mean, it's not like her school life has changed that much after joined the PT. She just went back to do what she did before, of course with more resolve to help people than ever. She obviously has no problem with how the system works before so she doesn't feel the need to do anything to abt that. The education system was never her problem to begin with as she has never mentioned having such a thing. It's people opinion and expectations on her that she cared about. I mean, take Haru as an example. She is an upper-class citizen and her father is a big name in the food industry yet she doesn't want to part of any of that. She actively rejects her privilege. So yeah, I cannot say that Makoto is a rebel or anything. And even if she is a rebel, her reasoning behind it is weaker and lacking substance compared with others as she still receive benefits from what ever she rebels against, not counted her feelings and self-esteemed get invalidated or anything.
Finally all of you realize who the real waifu is.....
Probably still Hifumi tbh
but of course! Sho-Gi-Oh! girl best girl.
Haru Okumura you sir, has one of the best taste here
Hifumi best Waifu!
YOU are! >.
Haru Okumura I agree
Hmm, Haru seems like the right option to pick.
I think a big part of Ann vs Makoto is on what basis you are measuring them.
I think Ann has the better story arc (obviously), but does that mean I like her more? And I think that's a huge part of the question. If you are giving best girl to girl with the best story, hands down Ann.
But I think when it comes to character design, Makoto is better. Sure, she doesn't have some dramatic backstory. But ultimately, it's a lot more realistic and relatable. You get to see her interests (action/Yakuza stuff). You see how she relates to her peers. While not giving her personal drama, I think that shows a lot of who she is. What do you really get out of Ann competing with another model? That's a very narrow circumstance.
So I kinda view them as complimentary. Ann is a great story, that they unfortunate filled in with a generic character (see lazy dungeon costume design). Makoto is a thoughtful character design with an admittedly dull story.
So if best girl=best story, Ann. Best girl=best design, Makoto.
zeroisnine kind of wish you could fuse makoto and ann. To me there kind of the same both wanting to help people (Ann by encouraging them and Makoto by bring justice). Probably going with makoto because she is the type I would be attracted to more in real life (hopefully she has a since of humor) and two I like Ann and Ryuji ship better then Ren and Ann.
RIP MY HARU SCREEN TIME
Lagoon Water RIP a lot of girls screen time cause of her
I seriously doubt Makoto's to blame for that, I mean Haru was introduced so late that I honestly thought she wouldn't even be a real party member just like Akechi. Now that I think about it, turning Haru into a red herring would've been a better use of her character.
Can't wait for part 3, Flair vs Johne: the Naoto debate
Oh, boy this was interesting to watch... all right, let's talk Makoto
As Fither said, she does represent someone who was so used to school life that she doesn't know how to act differently, hence the comparison that she is a robot. In her confidant, if you tease her that she's a robot, it doesn't give you any points even though it's a good joke. That's because she, on some level, knows her condition and is frustrated about it. She holds in most of her emotion through the scenes because of the responsibility she placed upon herself.
The only moments she lets loose are when she went after Kaneshiro and when she's in the Metaverse. These are the only moments in 18 years of existence where she could do whatever she wanted with no shackles holding her back.
For finding Kaneshiro, I have one thing to say: it was dumb, yes, but the police wasn't able to find the man and they've been searching for him for a long time. How else do you find a mafia boss? Plus, I think her father's death may have something to do with the mafia, if you want to create a personal connection between the two.
And that's something else I wanted to say: while a personal connection makes the arcs better, Makoto fights for her own justice, something she inherited from her father. In a way, she is like Joker. He didn't have anything to do with that woman and he still went to save her, didn't he? Besides, her greatest goal was changing Sae's heart.
I could talk more, but typing on a small phone at 11 A.M. isn't the best way for me to describe her character and why I like her. If anyone that reads this has a counterargument, please do type it! I want to have a civil discussion about her, especially since I didn't even write down everything about her.
If you read all of this, thank you and sorry for the long comment. I like her just a tad more than the other phantom thieves, and I love them all.
One year later, an I couldn’t have said it better myself. Well written!
@@cameronspencer9619 Thank you!
I just love her so much and I always defend her actions and characterization.
*insert drake clapping at a sports game gif
The thing I disliked most about her was how much the game pushed Makoto and Joker's relationship, it was so annoying and I just wished that a different/better p5 girl would get more screen time, it also makes me dread the p5 spinoffs cause after seeing how popular she is they'll push the relationship even more. She's also kinda bland, but her awakening was cool though.
Another Lime they never pushed the relationship onto you unless you actually chose her to be in a relationship. The only time that maybe happened was at Futaba’s palace when the two had eye contact. That’s about it when it comes to the actual game without choosing her as a relationship choice.
If they chose another girl everyone would be saying that about her too to be fair.
Makoto is cool but yeah after her awakening she's doesn't really have any stand out moments
Actually,what I find funny is that Makoto is so static that friggin Ryuji is able to taunt her into doing things. She basically gets tricked into hacking Sae's computer by the equivalent of "you too scared bro !?". To which she responds as expected, takes the magical pendrive and proceeds to completely violate her sister's privacy (as well as commit the actual real-life crime of stealing police confidential data). Sure,you can shit all over the Ryuji/Morgana debacle, but Makoto joins the team after running half-cocked into a situation with no plan, and all over the game she keeps proving she just... never actually has a plan and runs straight ahead at the slight provocation...yet we are suppose to believe she's smart and always plans ahead because THEY TELL US she does.
My only real problem with Makoto was how she was forced into the group. Also taking over as if no one knew what the were doing. Like literally last palace they had a plan for stealing madarame's treasure(which to this day will always be badass since it was honestly the closest to a heist you actually get) and everyone is just like "yea she right." Like she grows with them but her beginning with the P.thieves just felt like some Mary Sue level of writing.
P.S she's the only one with a unique type of persona
I disagree with your 'Makoto is the only one with unique Persona'. There are Futaba's Necronomicon which is literally a UFO. But I do agree that the game writing basically make her a Mary Sue.
@@liamwalker113 she isn't
I think Makoto just has difficulties adjusting to new people and is an incredibly gullible girl. She ends up caring for everyone and even her sister and goes to far lengths to find out the truth (which is extremely admirable) but ends up hurting people in the process. I think the bike just really represents her as a whole.
Yohana
-has chains (Makoto's feelings trapped and as while her inner desire of freedom)
-her costume (to symbolize the alternative look than the "push-over goody two shoes" and is edgier or aggressive)
-the bike itself (Makoto is amazing at thinking quick in situations and tends to charge ahead instead of waiting on the sidelines anymore) (she doesn't want to be behind her sister anymore and is trying to break free)
-the name "Queen" (she's older and does demand respect and also leads everyone with a plan into battle while fighting along)
that's just my personal opinion on that though.
Makoto seems like an obvious composite character to me. Originally, Hifumi Togo was a member of the Thieves, and was meant to be the tactical head of the group.
Makoto was slated to be the emotional leader of the group, but not necessarily "the brains". With Hifumi demoted to a Confidant, Makoto took over the co-captain role, but also held onto her original characterization.
This might explain why she acts so out-of-character during the Kaneshiro arc; she's acting in-character, but from an older version of the script.
Hifumi was never originally a phantom thieve, read the art book. Makoto was designed before Hifumi
From Producer Katsura Hashino, as translated by Persona Central:
"Hifumi was planned to be involved in the game’s main scenario, eventually becoming a Phantom Thief herself as part of the main party. In the end, she was changed to just be a Confidant character, because the main scenario was already long at that point and that it would make it even longer."
Persona Central's translation didn't mention WHEN she was supposed to be a party member. As I said Makoto was already a party member before Hifumi was even created and not like what you said "took hifumi's role" because hifumi did not exist when Makoto was around. Here's Hifumi's profile from the art book.
imgur.com/a/SdgIt
Hmm...interesting. I see that I mixed up Makoto and Hifumi's original drafts - Makoto was always "the brains" - but I think that quote pretty much confirms that she's a composite character:
"We also had plans to add another more radically-minded strategist...We later integrated both ideas into Makoto."
Makoto retains her more level-headed tactical mind, but inherited the radical, strategic savvy originally intended for an entirely separate character. That could explain why she acts uncharacteristically reckless at the beginning of the Kaneshiro arc.
i love johne as much as the next guy, but i hate it when people's arguments are just "its just dumb and weak" it just shows how little you know about the character or how much effort you actually put into trying to get to know the character.
Makoto doesn't fit because she is the only Phantom Thief without a personal motivation to steal the heart of the target.
Joker, Ryuji and Ann go after Kamoshida because he targets and abuses them all, breaking Ryuji's leg because he doesn't want competition in the track team against his volleyball team, sexually harassing Ann because he wants to screw her and revealing Joker's 'criminal' past hoping to get him ostracised and expelled (any of which could and would result in suicides in real life - ostracising you then mutilating you and ruining your sporting career, threatening your best friend to pressure you into bed and exposing you as a violent delinquent who will snap at any moment to get you attacked, shunned by everyone around you and kicked out of the only school that will have you, leaving you with no prospects are all psychologically devastating things which have resulted in many suicides in the real world), with Shiho's attempted suicide (Ann's best friend and the first person to greet Joker with kindness instead of 'hey, you worthless piece of shit') being the last straw.
Morgana is desperate to reach the bottom of Mementos because he believes the truth of who he is lies there.
Yusuke goes after Madarame because he is his emotionally and possibly physically abusive foster father who ruined the lives of countless foster brothers and sisters, driving a few to suicide.
Futaba is a self-loathing hermit who wants to die - she latches on to the Phantom Thieves as a final hope to face her demons.
Haru goes after her father because he's become so obsessed with his ambition that he doesn't think twice about selling her to an abusive rapey asshole that just reeks of Kamoshida without the smiley face; she wants to escape that life.
Makoto? Kaneshiro is a mob boss. She doesn't know him. She doesn't hate him or have any personal reason to go after him beyond 'I don't like mobsters'. This, I think, comes from Makoto being shoehorned into Hifumi's role - it would make sense for a mob boss to 'invest' in a popular shoji circuit, pressuring Hifumi to do exactly as told and eventually she is told to lose a match and she ignores Kaneshiro to win, and Kaneshiro sends his goons to put her mother in the hospital, warning Hifumi that she has to repay the money he lost on her, so she goes after him to finally get free from his influence. After Kaneshiro's heart is stolen and her mother is released from hospital she begins being the one to pressure Hifumi, leading into her confidant. It feels more organic and more 'Persona 5' than Makoto deciding she doesn't like Kaneshiro, getting herself and the PT into a shitty situation then awakening to Johanna out of 'pent-up frustration'.
Every other Phantom Thief picks their target because of a personal desire to break free from something forced upon them by their tormentor, Makoto has no personal reasons to hate Kaneshiro before she blunders into his presence out of a completely reckless move. Kaneshiro didn't give two whits about Makoto before she strolled in with zero plans beyond telling him to stop using students as his drug mules. She didn't go after Kaneshiro out of some duty to the students, or because he personally screwed her over or anything - she confronted him because she snapped and got angry after being called useless.
That is why Makoto does not fit with the theme of Persona 5. Her introduction is completely different to all the others - where they have personal suffering and lash out to end that suffering, she gets frustrated and blunders her way into a confrontation with her target.
So...you don't understand the concept for her arc at all. Kaneshiro was only the catalyst. She was struggled with pressure from adults and the real sense of justice. If you want the static story, where everyone awakens the same way, go back to P4 where everything is simple and repetitive.
- - her drive for changing kenshiros heart is that she believes that she has to protect the students, and also because of the amount of pressure she was getting from the students and the principle telling her all this shit. It doesn't have to be an extremely tragic and vengeful backstory like Ann or Yusuke. And did you forget the whole sae nijima thing. That was her true palace arc.
Reynik Namyrion You are such an idiot...
So the part about her admitting that she only joined the phantom thieves in order to change her sister's heart doesn't count ? Ok
As long as Baekemi and Ann aren't talked bad about I'm happy
A debate to help for makoto is that people say she’s too attached to joker but I think that her attachment to joker is something that’s makes her a good character because she’s made to try to be not exactly an opposite to saw but a counter play to her where she is using someone to rely on rather than doing everything herself
Makoto is the only character that joins with strong convictions about Justice. The rest of the party joins for mostly selfish reasons, to get back at the adults that hurt them personally, and they stick around because they've become friends and feel like they've joined something bigger than themselves but have questionable motivations (Ryuji wants fame, Ann wants to become strong to motivate Shiho, Futaba wants to get revenge for her mom, etc.). Makoto wants to change Sae's heart too but says "I didn't bring it up because it was a selfish reason", and she investigates Kaneshiro because she genuinely wants to help her fellow students, though the pressure eventually got to her and she rushed into danger. She helps keep everyone on track and focused, as the rest of the party is usually bickering. Her confidant path suffers I think because she doesn't have much of an arc to travel, the type of justice she learned from her father already coincides with what the Phantom Thieves do. She's also arguably the only party member that is never not-useful in combat, as she has the highest agility and usually goes first, has AoE physical skills, AoE Nuclear skills (which is not a super common resist/immunity), AoE heals, can heal the worst status effects, and can buff the party's defense. She's not the best at any one thing, but she's good at everything.
That being said, her design is a little "on the nose" for waifu bait (it's totally my type of waifu bait though). She's rides a nuclear motorcycle/transformer, beats enemies up with her fists, reads Sci-fi novels, asks you to take her to an arcade as a first date, has "Shadow Calculus" and "Shadow Factorization" as ability names (NERRRRRRRRRRD), is a super smart badass but awkwardly shy and cute in romantic situations, looks great in a bikini, is generally a nice person but hates evil with a passion, etc. The game does set her up pretty hard as the "canon" romance once she joins. I could see her totally following the Sae route of only focusing on her career and ditching Joker if he doesn't keep up with her ambitions though.
Makoto is neat, but overrated as all hell
asilva5021 That makes an issue for people who don't care if she is or not
“Overrated” - More popular than my waifu so I need to make stuff up to try and justify myself
Eddie Smith no I just find her boring I mean my favorite character in general is Ryuji so I could care less but she’s so boring
No
Agree 100
Makoto is good if you like strong independent women in the making and possibly crazy in bed.
Even though her older sister is clearly a better choice.
Futaba is good if you like damaged or eccentric younger girls that are like a little sister to you.
And hope you like being the breadwinner and working in a cafe.
Haru is good if you want a sweet girl who also can be a sugar mama/dom.
But stops being a dom and justs gives you money just because
Ann is good if you like fun and free-spirited girls who are seman demons in bed.
Who is also a porn star in the making as well.
So out of the main patry persona 5 girls pick your poison
BioGundam your comment won me
what about other confidants tho?
I don't know I never paid much attention to them sadly.
BioGundam oh ok
BioGundam I'd girls like Futaba because I am an idiot.
Hifumi was my favourite tho'
I don't really agree with the not calling out bit. Yusuke pretty much contributed a lot of commentary about Makoto and her actions during her arc. He called her out when things got way out of hand after her capture. I understand why John says Makoto doesn't really fit. She's my fave and sometimes I feel she doesn't belong but I think that's the purpose of her character in general. She's the minority of those who can't fit in with others who don't fit in, if that makes sense. But I like her because she admitted that she lacked what the others have. Ren/Akira, Ann, Ryuji, Morgana, Yusuke, Futaba even Haru have charisma or (social skills). Makoto doesn't have that. She was basically taught that she didn't need it because that's not what the working world wants. She just has to be smart and that's it. There was no choice for her and choice in essence is what defines free will. I'd be pretty pissed about that too... Yes, she acted recklessly a lot... (which got on my nerves) but, can you fault really her for it? People do things to prove themselves all the time. Fither has a point about folks knocking her over basic things. Do you guys think if her story was different if her father was alive, would she still be the way she is now? No. If she was this independent bad-ass from the get go what else do you have? Her character would be pretty flat. Makoto dealt with things on her own. The one person who supposed to have her best interests at heart, basically sees her as a parasite. So Sae is no help in this case. Every character has somebody in their corner except Makoto. Yes, Madarame and Kunikazu were scum but Yusuke and Haru still has them. Ryuji has his mom, Ren and Futaba has Sojiro. Ann has her in-living guardian or nanny. Makato didn't get Sae until after the fact when learning about Shido and all that jazz that went down. By far, Makoto is the best character in terms of personal development. She's realistic and complex. Her standing is relatable (and I kinda identify with her to a degree).
Couldn't disagree with John more especially on the "better Niijiima" point. What did Sae even do the whole game? Screams at her sister and thinks only about winning to the point of fabricating evidence just to get her promotion and just being this unlikable character in general. Makoto on the other hand faced danger head on just because it's just and she was true to hear ideals. And that alone why Makoto is the better Niijima because her motivation to win is something other than success or social status.
All of his argument sounds like he's jealous of the attention Makoto gets and that's wrong.
Not to be combative on an old comment. but sae actually does the bulk of her work in the latter half of the game. She actually takes joker back to sojiros after the casino. Builds a case against shido(properly), and quits her cushy job as a prosecutor to become a defence attorney. Also gets main characters charges dropped due to her trial with shido. And offered to be his attorney if he needs help. This all while the Phantom theives never actually taking her heart.
I'm not the biggest makoto fan but holy shit Johne's arguement made me lose brain cells
Yeah, he only really has two things to say about Makoto, her supposedly not fitting in with the group and her being overhyped, and he constantly repeats them throughout the whole video.
her eyes are pretty and her headband is Aesthetic as fuck (yes, its a headband. not her hair).
her social link could have been better.
zyonhunter her design is probably one of the bests of all girls, but it needs a lot of better personality and a better confidant
zyonhunter whaaaaaat? It's a headband?!? That lying...
Goro Akechi Now with extra syrup Blame Atlus.
zyonhunter ITS NOT HER HAIR??? :0
zyonhunter WTF?! THATS NOT A HEADBAND????
Makoto is boring. I'm sorry Fither but that's just how I feel. I don't hate her, far from it but if given the choice to hang out with one of the phantom thieves for a day each, Makoto would be the one I'm less thrilled to be with.
I dont think shes boring i feel like she was kinda dropped
Haru Okumura Haru is best girl
Haru Okumura You're my girl...
I think what makes Makoto appealing to many is, ironically, what makes her boring to others. The fact that her character arc is pretty ordinary. Take away the specific details, she's just a someone who tried to do the proper thing, and learns that she needs to cut loose a little more. In that since, she would fit more into P4 than P5.
I like Ann (I have no clue why Haru gets so much love), but her story is straight out of a soap opera. And even if you scale it down, most people lives aren't so melodramatic that Ann's story is really relatable. Ann has a great story, and I think she's great, but Makoto speaks more to relatable circumstances.
Can't say I agree, I really liked most of the cast apart from Haru and the photographer Girl (Can't remember her name), they came across as annoying to me.
If you probably took some screen time from Makota, and gave it to Haru, that'd be cool.
Honestly, as a Makoto fan, I have to agree. People are having on Makoto because she has SO much screen time, though it is Atlus' fault for that, and I really wouldn't mind to see Haru on screen more. Then again,the time management in persona 5 isn't that great, we have no time to get close with the characters though,I'm sure it is fixed in the P5R game
Thank you for your input, Donkey Kong.
@Gmoney 12 if you watched the Haru Confidant video, it would be clear that Makoto has the biggest head to forehead ratio.
Emo Jesus is the better Makoto, tbh
You're completely right about that
AtOutoftheBlue In everyway
You won the argument boi
Your taste is as rotten as his corpse
Nah
Makoto is the best girl. Can't change my mind.
Since nobody seems to be pointing this out, Makoto, DOES fit the theme of outsiders, albeit in a more nuanced way. She is outcasted BECAUSE she's student council president.
Exactly. It's not like anyone treats her any different to other Phantom thieves, before she joins them. Basically, the whole Kaneshiro debacle happend when she goes all "fuck the school, fuck the rules and fuck YOU," to Ann.
Actually, people ALWAYS seem to ignore the NPC dialogue scattered through the game. Persona 5 is strange because a lot of details are actually entirely optional dialogue (just look at all the news and NPC dialogue about deaths and mental shutdowns regarding competitors of Okumura foods all through the game). For example, during the Kamoshida events you can explore the school and in-between all the hate Joker gets you actually learn that the school has actual respect for Makoto as this super smart Student Council President (remember the position is not chosen by the school, it's a student-elected seat). People in the library were actually singing her praises and even pining for her attention,and the student council officials can be found at some points mentioning how she works too hard and worrying about her.
It's after Kamoshida that people start whispering if maybe she knew, and the fact she kept being called by the Principal began to create rumors that she was being tasked with protecting teacher secrets. By this stage it was just small rumors but by the time Madarame falls and the Phantom Thieves start becoming a hot topic more and more people began to point as her as having betrayed the student body and sided with the teachers.
Basically, Makoto wasn't hated from the start. She was popular and decently liked by the school, both teachers and students. It's only after Kamoshida's fallout that things begin to spiral down for her. In an ironic twist, it's actually The PT's fault that she began to feel useless to begin with.
@@LeonGun8 Nah, the PT is not fault here. Makoto is the one at fault for ignoring her responsibility as a student council president. She know what Kamoshida did but do nothing about it because she couldn't care enough. I mean, she admitted that herself and it is her exact words: "I had my suspicions...but if I had cared enough I would've done something." And it is not counted that she don't have any proof against him if she did try to help the students. She didn't do her damn job in the first place so it's not surprising that other students shit on her like that. While I feel bad for Makoto being called useless by Sae, which is pretty fucked up, I do not have sympathy for her when everyone in school do the same thing. Just considered it karma on her side.
Oh,I did not mean it's their fault as in "they dragged her into it". I meant that dragging out the corrupted faculty ended up with her on the wrong side of the fallout. It's not the Student Council's issue to judge the actions of the faculty. That's the Principal's job. The Student Council is meant to provide the tools for the students to live a proper school life. They help run the school events and everything that is "student-run" so that the faculty are unhindered and can focus on what they are supposed to do, which is teaching. Makoto could have found out what the Director and Kamoshida were hiding if she had followed the breadcrumbs and did some deep digging but she's also a student. The Director would have just shut her up anyway and Sae would have called her a fool for throwing away her future for "misguided justice".
Basically,what I am saying is that while I don't precisely like Makoto (she's preachy and a know-it-all who doesn't actually do much), it's not like she actually was in a position where she could realistically accuse the faculty of anything. In fact, her abbrasive reaction to the Thieves at first comes precisely because they acted the way she wished she would act but didn't dare to. She would have loved to throw caution to the wind and just help others, but her sister would have just called her a fool for it (which Sae precisely did when Makoto began to question if the PT were correct and if their dad would have sided with them)..
Old video, but- I personally identify with a lot of makoto’s experiences and character so that’s why she’s best girl for me personally.
I know i'm kinda late but I disagree with Johne saying the reason makoto went to Kaneshiro's is shit.
Sae (her sister and possibly only close family) literally said she is just a load. Plus she knowingly was being blackmailed by kobayakawa while basically acting like a robot for all her life. I mean, this is killing yourself material.
I disagree with other things but this is the easiest opinion I can express. Ps: Okumura's palace is worst, not in terms of its place in the lore but level design. And morgana's fight is easily the worst part of the story.
The only Makoto that matters is Makoto Yuuki
Hell yeah!
You shall be blessed by the Emo Messiah Japanese Jesus.
I know this sounds petty but I can’t stand the fact that there are 2 Makotos.
+HeracrossKnight me too... yosuke yusuke ryoji ryuji... wtf
HeracrossKnight Really? I love it.
Johne gave almost no good points to support his argument. All he did was ramble on why he didn't like her. For example I have no clue what he is talking about when he says she did 17 dumb things when I only ever remember her doing ONE thing.
For me, it still a three-way tie between Makoto, Ann, and Takemi. Like damn, Takemi would be the clear winner for me if the protagonist wasn't a teenager....
Makoto is cool tho and I like her a lot, despite the glaring flaws in her actions vs personality which I attribute more to her emotions and lack of Street-smarts.
It’s Persona 5’s Best Girl Debate but every time they say the girls name it gets 2% faster
no offense but most of the complaints about Makoto's character that are made clearly come from a place of someone who has never been in an extremely high pressure family situation where they are expected to succeed at all costs and been conditioned basically from birth to do work and school and nothing else. I don't think Makoto is "da best gurl" or anything but seeing Sae say things to Makoto like "you're nothing but a drain on my life" or (when Makoto mentions she has been thinking about how her father would see the Phantom Thieves) "why do you have time to think about those things? Do your homework" reminded me (painfully) of my own childhood and really let me connect to her as a character. Also, the point of her confidant story is supposed to be indicative of her coming to the understanding that she has the capability to choose a future for herself--and then realizing that choosing to continue what she was already doing (but now because she is personally driven to do it and not due to external pressures) is a perfectly valid choice. She's breaking the chains of society in a different way than many others, but that doesn't make it any less important or mean it takes any less internal strength.
also you like ann so opinion discarded
That’s some next lvl foreshadowing from yesterday’s podcast. Well played
Makoto's pretty great no matter how meh her link was.
Ok so when Jonny said he wasn’t a Makoto I accepted it, not everyone’s perfect. Jonny I love you man, but do not bring Naoto into this!!
I enjoyed this civilized discussion. nice to hear both sides of the discussion. Lovely vid, gents! Genuinely enjoyed (in case peeps thought I was being sarcastic)
I cannot believe that I am genuinely fucking furious about other peoples opinions on a fictional character and it makes me even madder that it makes me mad in the first place. It also makes me hate Johne and i do not want to.
the struggle is real
Welcome to weeabooism
Prokisli Krov Studio Production Inc. Well let make it easier, why don't you just hate me because I don't like Makoto at all, not her character not even her design at all, I can admit she's pretty but she's not for me. Also similar situation with Ann she's an ok character but I she doesn't attract me. And I think both are way too overrated specially Makoto.
I'm on team Futaba but Haru's lowkey aborable to me.
I think Makoto’s reason for being a phantom thief is probably the most unique out of all of them. See, she isn’t outcasted from society, she’s held in the spotlight. The problem is, that’s a fuck ton of pressure. She can’t act out in anyway, or else she gets looks, and scolded, and all that. Being seen as “the smart kid” or “the paragon of intelligence”, it can really give you imposter syndrome, thus, she rebels.
Idk, I love makoto, I think caneshiro is a bit weak but I understand that makoto cares a lot about her position as a student council president and so learning that some students are being abused by him, she takes it seriously, and also sae’s palace I’d say is very much about how makoto wants the exact opposite, she doesn’t like to cheat and doesn’t like how her sister treats her life but also relates to it bc she also fights to win no matter what, and also how she has to live up to her sister’s reputation and how eggman principal was manipulating her
Though I gotta admit, her confidant kinda sucks
Ann doesn't get no scene time with joker? She's gets 2 animated cutscenes with him lol
J L bro u right they played Romatic music and everything.
TheNrat I think thats just her theme.
I wouldn't really say its her theme seeing as the song only plays for that specific scene.
J L it played on both cutscenes. Her intro, and her at big bang burger.
oh aight my bad its been awhile since I played. I thought it only played that first cutscene
SHIT I'm split between them slightly. Fither is right about so much but John can back up all tye basic reasonings
(P3 - Mitsuru) (P4 - Naoto) (P5 - Makoto) I like women who are smart in life but dumb in love.
I see you like older women lol
@@keeysOST
This may be late but Naoto's younger than Chad Yu.
@@dejavu9204 shit I forgot lmao
I love Makoto, she got the brains, the brawns, the looks and a motorcycle persona. Plus, she's the only confident member of the team who actually thinks with a levelheaded manor. The Phantom Thieves would be fucked without someone with her level of brains.
I all have a personal bias to like her that you might find weird. Her design reminds me so much of another character from my favorite game Shadow Hearts. They both have brown hair, red eyes, leather outfits, use knuckles for punches and kicks, and have dead dads they think about constantly. His name is Yuri Hyuga and Makoto reminds me so much of him. Like I said it's weird but I can't help it.
I like Makoto she’s definitely my second best girl the number 1 for me is Futaba cuz i had depression and I legit felt like Futaba was literally me inside the game and if u feel like futaba is a sister for u good for u!
Holyshit johneawesome talking with two great guys about Makoto and it's a great discussion back and forth? Excellent and damnit now every time I'm going to be looking at Makoto all I'm going to be thinking about is lady from Devil May Cry so thanks.
So this is where all the Makoto haters come to circlejerk.
With the two Makoto scenes ; Futabas palace and Sojiros house, The palace scene might be better with Futaba arriving earlier in the Palace and Joker saving her from being crushed rather than Makoto, because it adds no fanservice The group is already there to save Futaba. The house scene might also be better if theu built up this friendship between Ann and Makoto as well with Makoto grabbing Anns arm rather tuan Jokers.
finally someone who doesn't fanboy over Makoto
also the p3 protagonist is Minato and Joker is not Ren
Earth The Kid Ren is his Anime name.
And Akira in the manga (i think but its Akira somewhere)
So many people got triggred off the intro lol
I think Johne lost most of this argument by failing to explain, or substantiate to any capacity, his biggest claim: that Makoto does not "fit" with the Phantom Thieves' thematic of rebellion. And by failing to name any of the "seventeen times" she majorly fucks up. I doubt there are many that appreciate Makoto's Confidant very much, and if this debate was about nothing BUT her confidant, than it's case closed. No one gives a fuck about Eiko, and her desperate need for attention and family situation doesn't do anything to make it seem like Makoto actually learns something useful from her, nor does any of that evoke any sort of pathos in the player (or at least in me). The stalking thing was cute because animu, because Makoto herself is cute, and because I guess she technically doesn't do it for enjoyment. And being a social klutz, she thought following you around with a manga covering up her face is really cute. Aside from that, I do agree that Altus/the game itself kinda pushes Makoto down players' throats with how much screen time she is given compared to other characters. Though to be fair, I think this was done mostly to portray how Sae's heart was beginning to be distorted, as there were few scenes were it just focused on Makoto by herself at home. And Makoto isn't painted in a perfect light all of the time; she admits to Ann in that one scene they had that she was a cunt to the gang because she didn't know how to deal with the stress, and everyone fucking reprimands her for doing something so stupid to get to Kaneshiro. Also, I don't really think she gets any special treatment from anyone in the PT, hell if anyone receives that kinda treatment it would be Futaba (not that I resent her for it). I think her point of her character, rebelling against societal expectations placed upon you by others, for whatever reason, and defying them to find what YOU want fits like a glove with the PT, and with the theme of the game.
I pretty much never agree with everything you say but I cant stop watching you persona videos.
yusuke best girl
fact.
Nogghorn true
Poor Yusuke, the price of being sexy I guess, all men want to bend him over and go to town on his butthole. #ProtectYusukeButthole haha
Very Broke i actually do want to bend him over lol
Goro Akechi Now with extra syrup Yusuke will never see it coming haha
Putting the "dumb goofy shit going on" theme under Johnes explanation of why Makoto is worst girl is both a dirty move and the correct choice.
Futaba was the best girl, but whould be weird to date her, i meam, shes your little sister.
So i dated Ryuji.
Kaneshiro's palace would be better if it turns out kaneshiro was the person that killed her dad
I think there's a question to be raised in "how well does the character represent the Arcana their social link/confidant represents?"
Yusuke has the best awakening
Don't know what you guys are talking about. I'd be delighted to have a cute girl follow me home.
As long as she isn't a threat
Bro really take the time and think about that situation and how creepy it actually is
Ren Amamiya Tried that. Wasn't as effective as I had hoped.
Ren Amamiya Ugandan? I know a Nigerian. Is that close enough?
JohneAwesome I'm lonely and have no sense of self worth. I'll take what I can get
Ren Amamiya On 2nd thought, he might actually be Haitian. I'll have to ask him later
I like Makoto Niijima. Welp. That’s just me.
Ayame Himura theres nothing wrong with liking her.If she's your fave shes your fave that's it.
between p5 and p5r I've played the games 9 times and every time I do a playthrough I HATE how Makoto comes into the group. the whole stalking and blackmailing really does nothing to endear her character to me. also she takes up the brains of the group role, often overruling Joker's place. she's useful in boss battles but even then she tends to go first before Joker so I don't like using her much. I like the addition in P5r because it addresses how she came into the group but aside from that, she's my least favorite of the p5 girls
Futaba also black mails you...just saying.
Minato Yuki The difference between Makoto and Futaba is the way they acted towards the phantom thieves. Makoto was so pretentious and cocky, and she seemed to think she was above them. Even after she joined the group she was always like 'Just as I thought' and always got this big brained holier than thou portrayal. With Futaba, the initial blackmail was because she saw no other way out from her own internal torment. She also planned to help them at first with the aid of the calling card and the name, whereas Makoto was making them do all the work themselves like slaves until the phantom thieves (rightfully) called her useless. Futaba is also just a more charming and loveable character. She's big-brained but doesn't act like a high and mighty bitch.
Mikey 596 How is saying “just as I thought” holier than thou? Everyone on the team says stuff like “I knew it” or “eureka” or something like that. Can you give me more examples of her acting like she’s better than you?
Minato Yuki The cylinder lock-styled room, the whole Queen shebang, 'I knew I was an honorary customer, so they would let me in' (which is just repeated from morgana's plan but she says it like it was her own), her just constantly taking charge in most every scene after her addition. It wasn't her simply saying just as I thought, I was the constant feeling that she's better and a special snowflake. The other characters (except morgana) rarely if ever feel like they're constantly showing how they're better than everyone else. I know that's not Makoto's intention, it's just the way she comes across.
Mikey 596 Well who should take charge?I mean it’s not really in character for anyone else to really do it besides joker, Mona, and Akechi. And you can’t exactly hold full conversations. So it’s basically a split between Makoto or Morgana for most of the game sense Akechi is only there for two palaces. I don’t really know what else they were supposed to do.
Makotos dungeon is important because its about her proving her sister wrong and being able to be on saes level considering how sae treats her, makoto being able to match or even 1-up sae is a very important inspirition for her introduction.
Geez... I've never seen this much hate ever since Yukari...
You guys should team up more, the three of you were the ones who got me into Persona.
Imma be honest
But makoto was my least favourite shes kinda flat to me and here confidant was boring as hell and wasnt about her much
(Im ready to wake up to a bunch of makoto fans and get shanked for saying this) shes just boring and doesnt have much going on
I dont hate her but i just dont love her either
Im sorry but im on johne's side
Like i get the whole expectations stuff and that and her just going fuck it near the end and like i want to be my own person like i thought that was freaking cool but i feel let down that she just didnt do much after that i feel like she had so much emotion at the start but then she kinda looses the touch and then gets it back and so on same with haru it felt so lacking to me she could have been better
KJMZ shorts I agree with you an johne, her confidant was boring and some of her habilities are not fitting for her role
Hifumi is better
Hifumi is (was) Makoto. Look at their personalities and Confidant rewards. They shouldn’t have split them into two characters.
Makoto didn't talk because she likes the protag, she does it to gather info on the phantom thieves
John is pretty hypocritical on some of his points on Makoto, and blows how mean she is WWAAAAYY out of proportion.
Crickets
I'm more of a harem man myself so I don't really get the best girl debates. *BUT* , if I had to choose a girl I would pick Makoto because I feel like I would also get Sae as a bonus.
Just going to leave this here
P5 waifu tier list Official edition
S rank Tae,Hifumi,Kawakami
A rank Makato,Futaba ,Ann
B rank Sae,Haru,Caroline
C rank Chihaya,Justine
D rank Ohya
phantom kid
>Implies Ohya deserves a rank.
I would put Tae at rank A and Makoto at Rank S
I agree with this, pretty much. I may switch the Warden Lolis as well as switch Makoto and Haru.
Ohya is clearly SS tier
Lala-chan is SSS Tier
This podcast sounds great! The audio-mixing is superb and you can hear everybody so clearly!
I see people on Reddit hate Makoto because she's overshadow other characters, (didn't know if it's true or not because I didn't play the game) but for me, i didn't like her because she's a priestess confidant which mean she's sucks at cooking same like Fuuka & Yukiko
yukiko learned, it just took some time
Nothing linking kaneshiro to the story maybe but has a lot linking him to Makoto's story. The bad guy her sister couldn't get, hinted that kaneshiro belongs to the same crime organization that had her father killed and is threataning the members of the student body she is responsible for as student council president.