The Free Will Illusion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ม.ค. 2025
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You feel like you are free. Free to cross the street when you want to, free to like the color blue more than red, free to watch this video. You decided all this. You chose to be here right now. I disagree. I don’t think you’re free at all. Free will…is an illusion.
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"And that, your honor, is why my client should not be punished for stealing 500 gallons of Maple Syrup."
Yeah, this is where the argument that "there is no free will" becomes problematic. It's a made up concept that's practically designed to destroy the idea of accountability despite the fact that there are clearly actions that we want people to not do, regardless of the causal chain.
Fr thou, you honor. You wasn't even there, how tf would you know he stole it?
Your client has the type of brain that would steal gallons of maple syrup so we need to issue some sort of behavioral training to make it less likely this brain will try to do this again.
Tabernac!
Now take it to the extreme, and how do we now justify the Nuremberg Trials? If the Nazis had no free will, then they couldn't choose to not genocide the Jews, so now what? Denying free will leads to all kinds of extremely dark places...
I once read 'you are free to do what you want, but you are not free to want what you want'.
Yessss
oh yeah this came to my mind too
Its a quote by Arthur Schopenhauer-
"A man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills."
That is so profound.👍🏻
Yet acting on your impulses makes you no better than the animal that evolution pushed you to transcend.
“You feel like you chose to watch this video.“ Bro I’m just a slave to the algorithm at this point.
Hi my name is Questerer and I’m an addict.
Don't be slave, free will does exist. For a detailed explanation, please watch this 37 min video:
"The Latest Scientific Evidence of God - Fr Robert Spitzer at the Napa Institute Summer Conference."
I don't usually choose what I eat either. Is it edible? Am I allergic to it? Let's stuff the gullet.
I mean, you joke but that's actually exactly the point of the video
I did choose to watch the video but also read the comments for quality entertainment.
This video has really opened my eyes in a certain way.
I've always been an overthinker, always trying to get to the bottom of things, always trying to find a reason or an answer as to why things happen. I've always questioned my decision making and I constantly feel like I'm not making my own choices, like it's someone else that does the things that I do. I suffer with depressive episodes from time to time and in those moments I feel trapped inside a body with emotions and thoughts that I don't understand no matter how many questions I answer to myself. Everything feels like an excuse, every time I make a mistake it feels like apologizing is dishonest because I know I'd be rationalizing my decisions when in reality I know I wasn't thinking in that moment.
I've always wondered "Why can't I be like everyone else around me, looking so confident about themselves and what they do"
This video brings me comfort in a certain way. I know I've been overthinking, and that same overthinking has led me to believe I was a freak that didn't know who he was and why he does the things he does. It made me realize that I'm not that different to the people I love, it's just that I've spent too much time inside my mind instead of being out there and enjoying everything I like without questioning myself too much.
I know this comment is gonna wash away between all the other ones but from bottom of my heart, I want to thank you Kyle for making this, and myself for clicking this video.
Not that I had any free will in deciding to tell you this, but I hope you live a life that is as happy as possible 😊
Acknowledging determinism is in its own way freeing. I hope you can live a fulfilling life. I'm trying to live mine following the logic of egoistic altruism, and the selfish/selfless nature of that moral code is easy for me to wrap my head around.
"Red pill or blue pill?"
"Both, and keep em coming"
Crush, mix, snort. --xkcd
I choose the black pill
Bro the pills are like the infinity stones, you take red, blue, white and black and you reach a state of nirvana
That's why I crank the Purpl Drank, lmao
🎶🎵But nothing compares to these blue and yellow, purple pills🎵🎶
Kyle woke up and chose to set the comment section on fire
Did he really choose?
@@SCP.343 hehe
Don't Read Myy name
Ch
@@SCP.343he was all mk ultra'd up on Rock and Roll.
As someone who's spent nearly four decades with OCD, I've basically never felt like I truly had free will.
I sadly know all too well what you mean.
Checking if the door is locked... then try to open it, after that lean against it to be sure.. then check the key again.. open or close the window at a certain speed, then lock that, and make sure 7 times, exactly 7, that the handle is fully closed, so that the window can not be opened. Turn off the lamp in a certain way.. for me my OCD is very reliant on numbers of successions being perfect.
Example: I have one 50 watt lamp in my room, and the ceiling lights (which I never use). When shutting off that lamp, and going to bed, I always press 3 times.. I also have a small light on my nightstand (but I broke the switch due to excessive fumbling with it). When both lights were on, I pressed 1 time in the on position for the bigger lamps light switch, then 4 times in the off position, making sure my fingers glide off the plastic material in a certain way. Then, having the number 4 in my head, I would lay in my bed, and continue there.. press the switch in the "on direction" while the lamp is still on, then off.. still having the number 4 in my head, I would then go 4..5..6 and finally.. 7.
For me it's all related to numbers.. 3, 5, 7, 13 and 16 are "okay" amount of times (interestingly, 4 out of 5 of those numbers are primes, and uneven numbers tend to be more "acceptable" than even ones) to switch something off, or rather, to make sure it's really off (even though the lamp is obviously off already since it's not emitting any light).
It made me very sad to write this.. I am literally wasting away my life doing literally useless things.. therapy did not help (except for one method I wrote about below), medications did not help.
The best thing I have found yet is to just not listen to your mind, which ironically, is considered therapy, exposure therapy to be exact.
When I ignore the triggers of my OCD, then the next day, I wouldn't worry nearly as much.. if done for a longer period, I sometimes feel much better and the OCD is almost gone but as soon as the baseline anxiety level goes through the roof for whatever reason, the cycle repeats. Maybe try that?
I hope you find the peace that you deserve eventually.
@@williamkaneDoesn't sound like a pleasant experience. I too have OCD,but of the contamination type. I have had it maybe two or three years before puberty,and I'm 42 as now. My OCD started to get quite worse around early 2020. Along with my worsening came erotomania and intrusive thoughts. I would keep having to do the same things over again to try and get the unwanted thoughts and feelings of uncleanliness to go away long enough to get ready to go to work. I know it's not the exact same as your experience, but the anxiety and panic certainly are. It has me at rock bottom. I dont know if meds and/or therapy will truly work. I wouldn't wish OCD and everything that comes with it on anyone,it has made me almost useless. Good luck to you! And will definitely check out the methods in your comment.
I too have had OCD for a good while.It's of the contamination type. I have had it maybe since I was 12,and I'm 42 now. It hasn't been too bad of an issue until 2020. For some reason I started to have erotomania and intrusive thoughts,which in a way,are opposed to my OCD and the need to feel clean. So anxiety, panic,rituals,second guessing,and feelings of hopelessness are almost a daily thing. I feel your sentiment of never feeling free,or that I have any semblance of control. I wouldn't wish it on anyone for any reason. I will paraphrase Howie Mandel: "It has ruined my life." For me,its rock bottom.
I hope for the best for you and the other person in this thread. 👍🏽
@@johngavin1175 Thank you for sharing your story, John.
I will reply in detail tomorrow because it is very late where I live and I need to get some sleep.
Until then, I wish you nothing but the best.
@@williamkane Alright,the same to you! Good night,and take care.
“Most people are convinced that as long as they are not overtly forced to do something by an outside power, their decisions are theirs, and that if they want something, it is they who want it. But this is one of the great illusions we have about ourselves. A great number of our decisions are not really our own but are suggested to us from the outside; we have succeeded in persuading ourselves that it is we who have made the decision, whereas we have actually conformed with expectations of others, driven by the fear of isolation and by more direct threats to our life, freedom, and comfort.”
― Erich Fromm, Escape from Freedom
Before we can answer "do we have free will?", we have to define "what is free will?". If we define it in some specific ways, we have it, and we define it differently, we don't.
one thing thats undeniable is that we have some kind of will that we act with, but whether or not its "free" and what that means exactly is the difficult part, and also the less important part
Right, we aren't free to choose our desires, thoughts or likes, but we are free to chose our actions. If we weren't free to chose our actions then we would never struggle to decide, and we would never be able to change our mind.
Yeah. It's thorny. Kyle kept saying free will meant decisions made with our *conscious* mind, which is...a little slippery, maybe. Because there's a lot of our minds that are not conscious, and yes...decisions often come from there, and their origins are therefore hazy or even inaccessible to our consciousness. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not 'free.' I also take some small issue with his implicit assertion that 'choosing from a limited set of options' is the same as being 'unfree.' You may not control what options you have, but if you're still choosing between the available options, that does represent a degree of freedom.
It's an interesting thought experiment though, and I think people probably do overestimate how much freedom they have in making decisions. But I don't know that I agree that there's *no* such thing as free will.
As far as I understand it Kyle is arguing that a "Free Will" that puts "you" outside of pure physics and biology does not exist. We can make choices sure, but they were either predestined in a classical determinism sense, or randomly produced due to quantum mechanics. There is no room for a "you" agent that sits outside of physics and biology, so perhaps we should be a bit more compassionate to people just like we are to certain animals or people with brain tumors.
The common idea of free will is that "I could have done otherwise". There is no way to make coherent sense of this idea. It's just a psychological illusion like deja vu.
“Yes I have free will; I have no choice but to have it.”
-Christopher Hitchens
Sir I have ADHD, I am aware I am barely in charge of ANY decision that happens in this body, I am not the driver, I'm a passenger that is half outside the vehicle trying their best to hang on as we speed down the highway, my man
God that’s accurate isn’t it 😆😭
As a neurotypical who hasn't believed in free will for many years, I think you've described all humans. The only difference is you've accepted it and aren't deluding yourself (consciously or otherwise) into thinking you're in control.
That is to say, I think you're more in touch with reality than most people, lol.
yup
I also have ADHD, and with discipline/effort, I can compensate without meds. I don't like it, but it can be done.
You still have control of the wheel.
It however has a mind of its own and you need to basically train your whole upper body to compensate for the wheel trying to swerve off a cliff for no reason. You could also use some steroids for that.
Basically a very bad metaphor for practicing self discipline, perhaps with the help of meds
"Pick a random city."
Chicago.
"You have no idea why you picked it."
I've been re-reading the Dresden Files.
Can we control our thoughts? Not the first ones.
But every time we think "no, that's wrong", our ability to think is turning against our instinctual or learned reactions.
Every time we have an intrusive thought, that's our neural chemistry trying to make us think things. And every time I spend five minutes mentally kicking that intrusive thought in its metaphorical junk, I'm rewiring my brain to think like that a little less.
If we can change our instinctive thought patterns, we have control over ourselves.
The point of the video, I think, is that we can't control where those instinctive thoughts come from. We can't choose not to have those thoughts. We can choose to act on them, or express them, but we can't choose them.
I agree with that. When Kyle said a beetle walks over a stick instead of under it. We can’t control our first thought which is to go over the obstacle but I choose to be different and go under it if readily possible.
An interesting take, but I don’t think it qualifies as free will. You didn’t consciously or independently choose to mentally “kick the intrusive thought in its metaphorical junk.” That reaction is a product of your personality and characteristics, which were shaped by both nature and nurture.
For example, if you’d had a different upbringing or a different set of life experiences, you might not have had those thoughts or reacted to them in the same way. You might not have even watched this video or left this comment.
If you keep asking yourself why you do something, you’ll find that everything you think or do can be traced back to factors outside your control, including you thinking of Chicago and you wanting to change the way you think.
In this sense, free will might be an illusion. Our decisions aren’t truly free; they’re part of a larger, mostly predetermined chain of events.
Yay for Harry Dresden!
@@ProTomDekkers I think you're conflating "circumstances" with "lack of free will".
Yes, because of my expeirnces, I have the thoughts that I have. With different experiences, I would have different thoughts.
That's what life is about. Having experiences and growing through them.
It's also about choosing how to react to those experiences, and which experiences to seek out.
Would I be different if I chose other experiences, or didn't react the way I had? Yes.
But this isn't a choose-your-own-adventure where you can go back and forth and try all the options. We get one go. We react, we adapt, we think, and we choose, and it all totals up to us every minute of every day.
We live.
17:32 In all fairness, dude spent 35,000 hours over 13 years living amongst Grizzly Bears. He was able to gain rapport, walk up to them, and straight up pet some of them. And the bear that attacked them was a new bear to the area that he admitted he was unsettled by. Absolutely deserves a rewatch.
thank you.
Sounds like a similar case to Steve Irwin. You can spend your whole life around dangerous animals, learn how to get close without provoking them, have the training to know when to get out when things get dicey...but all it takes is one stroke of really bad luck and it's curtains.
@@AceSpadeThePikachuDingo Dinkleman just a few months ago. Literally regarded as the biggest expert on Mamba conservation and handling, has owned dozens of them over his years of adulthood...and then he gets called to move a WILD mamba, who he doesn't know, and even if he is the best....the best still can make a single wrong move...
Arguably much sadder than steve irwin to me, because you could argue going near the stingray was unnecessary when theres stock footage available already. But a wild mamba in an occupied area simply MUST be moved. If not by him than by someone else. They are SO dangerous, they are fast, agressive, and very good at climbing into rafters or places you will not notice until its biting you.
Actually, the species that got him, green mambas, are famous for killing cocoa harvesters. They coil up in the trees, the harvesters cant see them even though they constantly look, and then boom. Too fast to avoid, no warning. Some go numb before they can even finish climbing down the ladder and fall.
Just sucks that we cant talk to animals, seriously. Like if i could just explain to my dog "dont eat nylon straps you could get a blockage and will be in pain and need to stay at the vet and its a huge thing" then maybe shed stop eating, well, literally everything
@@AceSpadeThePikachu Steve Irwin had said that he was anxious about dealing with stingrays because he's not used to handling them.
@@AceSpadeThePikachu Every single minute of your life, even if it's spent in the calmest, safest of environments, takes one spark of bad luck to turn upside down into destruction
“Your honor, the forces acted upon the defendants atoms at the start of the universe led to him driving drunk that night”
Im not entirely sure you understand what's being spoken about my man.
Objection! Irrelevant.
The court will either find the defendant guilty or not guilty by due process like any other chemical reaction standing in this room with us today.
The Big Bang made me do it!
If only you could even pretend to submit that argument in court lol
It's because free will is an illusion, we must have laws and consequences.
Behind your skull is a cloud made of meat. Within that cloud is a thunderstorm. That thunderstorm is you.
Thanks, Kyle. I have never felt more like a billion dice rolls before
meatcloud piloting meatsuit full of porous stones and rubber bands go brrr.
Not really a thunderstorm though as neuronal communication by electrical arcing is something that only really happens in animals like jellyfish.
if you realize its dice rolls. u can chose not to receive the number if you pay attention close enough u can not act, that is where most 'free will' is expressed and its always contrary to what you felt like doing
You mean those same dice rolls that are completely determined by the shapes of the dices, the friction forces that act upon them, the strength with which they were thrown, etc., etcetera... ?
I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING!
In meditation, one is taught that we are not free to choose what we think or how we feel, but we are free to choose whether or not to bring those experiences to life. Through the mindful application of deciding what experiences to bring to life and which to not, we are tapping into our own capacity for neuroplasticity. Thus allowing some level of control over our innate tendencies as individuals. I took meditation classes for a decade and managed to change my default feeling response toward just about everything. However, I openly acknowledge that my winding up in that meditation class was truly a matter of being in the right place at the right time, and thus, the chain continues.
"Free to do your taxes" The IRS would like to challenge that thought.
It's a Matrix movie reference. Morpheus, who Hill here is himself referencing, says the line in the movie.
Of course you're free to do your taxes. You're just not free to not do you're taxes🙃
@@myscreen2urs actually it is free. you just have to know how not to fuck it up and thats why all of us pay turbotax $50 to not fuck it up..... thats also why turbotax lobbies the government to keep it difficult
You're also free to go to jail 😂
That depends on your income level. If you're to low, it's not really worth the cost of going after you, if you're to high you can make it to costly to go after you. Gotta be right in that juicy middle where you can't afford the tax lawyers to fight back. 😉
"Hi, V-sauce. Kyle, here."
Dude, I wanted to say the same thing! Love the video Kyle! ^_^
I genuinely thought he was gonna say it at the start
i would expect a better argument from V-sauce... This one was a real dud for me.
"-Or is it?"
Missing that one 🎶 music, after couple minutes in?😂 Moon Men
Whoever came into this video thinking about the number 47,203 is gonna be STUNNED
43,892 so it was universally close lol
And there I am thinking about 7 like a true pleb lol
Or a Honda accord or their brother, just less so.
@@emreyurtseven23 ......you and me.
@@bayfish_9156 As happens far too often to be unique, Kyle said Honda Accord exactly as I read your reply
If Google could monetize that they'd have more money than... idk, a ghost-woman offering free Hondas and goat-horses to the undead
The illusion of free will is so strong that Compatiblism was invented as a coping mechanism
Does anyone really believe that their consciousness controls their decisions independently of their brain, their body, and of nature? Even religious types will admit a headache affects their thoughts. The "classical" definition of "free will" is not the one people think they have. And, the free will people think they have - free from coercion from other people - is compatible with determinism.
You can not fool me with determinism. I choose twice to watch this video, first when I subscribed and the second when I clicked on it.
Edit: Hint. It's maybe, perhaps, possibly and very probably a joke. But on serious note I don't think about determinism and free will as absolute terms.
Don't Read Myy name
@@DontReadMyyPictureeeok I won’t.
Yeah but like sorry this was kinda predetermined by the universe :/
This video uploaded 1 hour ago. You wrote this comment 55 minutes ago. It's a 28 minute video.
That is physically impossible
@@C-mz1blit's both possible to play the video at 2x speed and to form a conclusion before the video ends
Brennen Lee Mulligan said something that was hardcore in his D&D show about this (paraphrasing) “you think you make choices, you drive down the highway and decide to take this exit or the next, but you didn’t make the road. The big decisions were made for you long ago”
Oooooh I love this
cool quote, but i dont think it really works out, same for most of the videos points. The logic is based on the idea that to have any choice you have to have had a choice about everything, which is not and can not be anything more than an opinion, not a fact. Yes there will always be things influencing or restricting your choices but that does NOT prove there is no choice, you not building the road does mean you cant safely just get off wherever you want, but it does NOT mean there is no choice between exits. You can still choose what to do with the hand your dealt and that is still a choice regardless of if you got to pick the cards or not.
What about the people who choose to leave the highway between exits and make their own road?
@@dragon_knight2300 i follow what you are saying, you're right dude
@@LePedant
"What about the people who choose to leave the highway between exits and make their own road?"
They'll be arrested for destroying public property.
I didn't pick Burundi because that's a country...
This
Get an upgrade
oh thats a red flag....
Well spotted, it's capital is Bujumbura. Only heard of it thanks to George Of The Jungle.
@@matt_acton-varian Good shout! I think it's now a dual capital country though? They are trying to make Gitega happen, I think?
Something I saw here that I found interesting...
There are people with autism and ADHD in the comments saying how they feel like they don't have free will. As someone with ADHD, I agree to an extent.
The fact that these (and other) mental conditions appear to remove (or limit) one's free will is, to me, good evidence of it's existence.
But that only proves the existence of the feeling of free will, not free will itself. Which Kyle argued for in the form of the fact that believing you have free will is beneficial to us as social creatures.
Also idk, if people who don't have ADHD or autism still get stuff like cravings, moods, addictions (and not just to drugs, which have any chemical impact on the addiction, but also to unhealthy activities), and inexplicable depression, then free will seems like just as much of an illusion to you lot as it does to us with ADHD, cause having such a condition is basically the same type of out-of-your-control sensation as those things.
i have autism, its a thing that is in my brain, i am my brain, so my autism is me. My autism cant limit me, as my autism is me. I would have to invent another version of myself that dosnt have autism, think about what they would do, and then decide it was my autism stopping me from doing that. My autism is just another thing influencing my decisions, just like every other part of my biology.
TLDR: you are your biology, you are your brain, stuff in your brain is also you.
Frankly, I'd say it's the opposite - the way mere disorders can mess up the workings of the brain, affecting the persons behaviors, indicates that behaviours are affected by the brain itself, and not by some "will".
My mother has expressed regret over marrying my father. In response to that I told her that she wouldn't have any of her children as we are. Her response is always that we'd still be us, just a different version of us. Since I am genetically a product of my father and mother, I wouldn't be me if she had married and had children with some other man. I would never have existed.
Sorry, this is a tangent to your statement that we are who we are because of who are parents are, who their parents are, who the parents of their parents are, and so on. I was reminded of this conversation with my mother because of your statement.
You'd still be you, just a version with different genes.
@@the-weirdist Not Quite the way I see it. If there 'was' a world where your mother married a different man or otherwise had or did not have children, they would not be you, because you are unique and uniquely yourself. But if there were no 'other' worlds and this world was defined by predetermination, then there also would not be a you, because there is no 'self' in this world, there is no conciousness in this world.
The only way you exist is if you and all concious life have free will. And I'm so glad that you do.
@@the-weirdist : Yes, those too; I only mentioned specifically genes because you had.
But this applies to any change. If there's anything that your mother has ever done that she regrets, or your father for that matter, or their parents, or a teacher that affected them, or really anyone ever (because everything affects everything else a little bit); if this person had done things differently, then you would have had different experiences and so be a different person.
In fact, if there's anything that you've ever done that you regret, if you'd done it differently, then you would be a different person now. I know that there are things that I've done that I regret; if I'd done them differently, then I would be a different person now. (In one way a better person, who didn't make that mistake; but in another way a worse person, who didn't learn from that mistake.)
But when I think about something that someone (me or someone else) regrets, it doesn't bother me that if things have gone differently then I wouldn't exist. If the different people who would exist would be better off, then I share the regret.
So, if by her logic, there will be two of you in alternate timeline, given that both your mother and father had children but with different partner.
Yeah you're right, literally wouldn't be YOU
I'd argue if the she got pregnant 1 minute later, it wouldn't really be you. So if the father was different? Nah not you, either side of 50% of that child's genes would be different.
I fully agree with you
I think people with ADHD can probably relate when I say, I have never in my life felt like I was in control of my actions. When you have ADHD and are not being treated for it, the rift between what you consciously want to do and what you actually do is an absurd grand canyon of torment that just spirals up to self-hatred very quickly. I hear sometimes people with autism also feel this way. So, I think people like us have an innate understanding that free will is really not something you can ever rely on. This video perfectly describes why.
@@averyhaferman3474they're right, though.
@SolaceCafe youre even worse. That pfp is horrendous and you probably got groomed by fnaf community
@@averyhaferman3474 The only one who should be pitied here is you, brother.
This has been my experience too. I have never been able to make a decision and stick to it. Either I'm a shitty person that doesn't care enough to do what I am wanting or supposed to be doing, or I just am not in control of myself. I feel like I care a lot so to me only the second option makes sense to me.
@@averyhaferman3474 My god, you're a sad person.
“… and that is why Luigi is innocent, your honor!”
mama mia
@@broodlingg Here I go again
Lmao me outside the courthouse raising a giant boombox over my head playing this video on full volume
Your honor, it actually was-a-me, Mario!
Toadette disagrees
Let's analyze this experiment a bit.
So, you asked me to think of a major city. There is a subset of major cities I remember the easiest, as I had some form of contact with them or a context in which I heard their names, and which stood out to me, so I remembered them easier and faster than others. There are many cities I don't remember easily and others I never heard of and thus can not choose, but a few options come up. My first, impulsive choice was instantly "Berlin". Why? Beause I am German and it is the closest link to my understanding of self that comes up. The strongest, loudest link in my world model. Me - Germany - major cities - Berlin. But almost instantly, I changed my mind. I thought: That would be too obvious. I don't want to allow you to make your arguments too easily, because such a little mind game always tries to make a point. So I chose something less common to me: Seoul. It was also quite present in my memory, as I like an album by the artist Gidge, called For Seoul, and more specifically, the album cover and the emotion its colors and scene invoked in me, a few years ago. That stuck with me. The thing is: The more time you give me to choose a city, the longer I can perform a query of my memory for a result I deem most difficult for you to make a point with. But I can not narrow down the exact threshold of how much I want to make it difficult for you to prove your point. It's extremely fuzzy and uncertain to me.
I immerse in your video as if we had a conversation and try to disprove your point, in order to protect my mind from potentially false information and to have a chance at scepticism / my own evaluation of the topic. In that experiment, I see multiple major cities as options with equally strong links within my memory. Equal options, but I chose the second one. I could leave it at that, but as I keep reflecting, I could easily find more options and choose another. It just depends on my willingness to keep thinking about it, which is determined by the amount of time I have for the task and my energy levels. However. I also intuitively understand that there is no point in continuing to change my mind about the specific city and the human brain has a natural bias for energy conservation and picking the strongest links, so I stick with Seoul, despite other names like San Francisco popping up, as I keep reflecting. There is just no point in further changing the selection, but as I have paused the video and take the time to write this, I could.
But as I type this, I realize I don't have to adhere to the rules you set. So, let me google a list of major cities and blindly pick one. My finger ended up on Pune, India.
And I (believe to) decide to change my mind to not go with that and instead with something that is much more difficult and less recent to dig out of my memory. Let's say... Bristol. The link I have to that name is weak, I used to play NASCAR games as a child and Bristol was a race track location I remembered the name of, because I like the sound of its pronounciation. I could go on changing my selection, but what's the point? I have to land somewhere, and the only determining factor is the time I allow myself for the selection process.
Do you think it was free will to change my mind to insert a random blind selection from a googled list? Or to not stick with that either and choose a weak linked one from memory?
The longer I allow this thought train, the more options I can have pop up and select randomly. I now have come up with multiple options. I could say "I'll make full circle to Berlin". Or I could go with the randomly selected Pune. Or to stick with Seoul. As long as I keep the video paused and don't set a time limit, the decision is in limbo between equally valid options.
I think after all this, I'll go with Tokyo. A memorable name and I can't even narrow down why it just came up, aside from my general liking of Japan, a result that popped up as my brain continued its multitasking, still running the query of major cities in the background while writing this.
In experiments like yours, often, time and efficiency are the determining factor. The tempo and flow of the conversation demands to choose within a certain time frame. But I chose to pause the video and reflect - and as I write this, I have not yet decided when to stop. You see, I have a lot of time and the ability to choose. And that makes me believe that free will is neither a general thing - nor that it doesn't exist.
Free will is a spectrum, I believe, and it depends on local conditions. Some individuals situationally have a higher degree of free will than others, because they have more equally valid options and a higher capacity for self-reflection and introspection than others. And some situations allow for more resources and time to reflect and choose than others. It's not a simple YES or NO answer. So... I disagree with both "there generally is free will" and "there is no free will at all". I'll go with: Free will is a localized phenomenon within a range of equally valid options and a spectrum, and dependent on situational circumstances and available resources, as well as the trained capacity for self-reflection within an individual.
I also believe that consciousness is a spectrum, and the more conscious and aware, as well as self-aware one is, the more free will this allows for, in situations, where multiple equally valid options exist. That was a mouthful, eh? ;)
I think, we have a tendency to think in extremes or absolutes, but objective reality - if such a thing exists - is more often than not spectral in nature. Out of our biological energy conservation bias, we create rather simplified models of it. Truth is, YES, most of our actions are optimized, pretty much automatic selections of the first and loudest impulse popping up. But I believe the capacity for a degree of free will does exist, situationally, in the right circumstances, in complex enough minds. We have the ability to go AGAINST the first impulse that pops up, against the most comfortable or obvious or optimal option. And there, I think, lies potential for free will. We just don't use it, most of the time, do we.
My free will said i aint reading allat
@@pukin512 See? Free will proven! 😂
After witnessing and caring for people with Parkinson's and Dementia I learned this first hand. It also made me question and realize how truly fragile personalities are and the things that people consider to make them, themself.
Forgive my french, but no shit sherlock. Your brain is you, damage the brain, you damage your sense of self. That's why it's terrifying.
Exactly, most of us isn’t actually us.
Why am I someone (self proclaimed atleast) that isn’t a bad person? Well clearly my environment and my parents. My psychology had predispositions to be out of control and to not listen to authority (ODD among others)
So, say I was born into an abusive household in poverty, surrounded by crime and violence. I do not doubt for a second that I would have then fallen under the “bad person” label if that were the case.
So my ego makes me think I personally am the reason for being a “good” person, but really it’s completely happenstance and outside factors
@@ZxZNebula wth is the point of life then, just so exist to watch a "movie" basically since everything is determined but also feel the pain,and pleasures.
I too have worked in memory care units. I see no evidence that any disease proves free will doesnt exist. The body is hardware. A radio. If your radio is broken it cant translate the signal into music very well. But the signal is still there, and is not altered by a broken radio. The problem is when we identify as the hardware. Your body is you but you are not your body.
@@ZxZNebulaI thought most people would agree that your upbringing shapes your personality? That also extends out to you being a "good" or "bad" person assuming you know what you're doing is good or bad.
This video seems much ado about nothing
Now I have to reconcile myself to the fact that the people making the ads that interrupted this video didn't choose to be liars, scammers, or grifters.
A lack of free will doesn't mean a lack of choices, it's means being bound by causality. No matter how many choices we have, we can't choose anything outside our preexisting capabilities or circumstances.
I reconcile this by saying I didn't choose to hate them 😅
@@suruxstrawde8322we have a range of choice within our experience, genetics, etc, much how I have a range of motion. I can put my hand anywhere I can reach. We may be screwed when it comes to snap decisions, but long term planning offers some range of choice. I usually have scrambled eggs and sausage for breakfast, but it's early enough today that I could pre plan to get a bagel.
But also, ragging on the scammers that advertise on TH-cam is evergreen.
You might be surprised most of them are not even aware of their choices, just copying and pasting behaviours that they were told to do by others, either directly or online in articles, unaware they can change.
@@suruxstrawde8322it’s like most ppl aren’t understanding what this means lol, like they just watched a video and haven’t thought deeply about it or something.
Like mental health therapy like cbt literally tries and changes the neurological pathways and patterns of that person. So like getting angry and learning to calm yourself down, it’s a practiced skill. I can’t just choose to calm down if I don’t have those skills previously, I am bounded by the laws of physics and the universe.
And “bad” people doing bad things is a great example of the illusion of free will, it tells us how they don’t truly have the same level of choice as we do, as it’s relative, and unique to each person’s biology. This also shows us how purely punishment doesn’t change or make some learn to be better, but a more empathetic and compassionate approach has much better chances of reaching that person and get them to attempt to change
I literally scratched my nose with my left hand when Kyle asked me why I chose to do that
The moment he mentioned it I so badly wanted to scratch my own nose, strange creatures we are😭
As opposed to figuratively scratching your nose?
I scratched like 5 seconds before he said it. That was funny
the atlas mentioned
Paraphrasing several Alex O'Connor's videos:
"We do what we do because either:
a) We want to do it
b) We are forced to do it
The factors that determine if we "decide" to do something are completely out of our control, so we don't "decide" to do what we want and -for that matter- we can't choose what we want either. And, of course, if we are forced to do something, we are definitely not deciding anything."
This just instills more "fuck it we ball" inside me.
Don't Read Myy name
That's the intent behind these ideas, which I disagree with fundamentally. The bio-chemistry and meta-physical has not been unified in this hypothesis.
Yet it can cause legitimate harm to people who might disregard sound decisions for poor ones, under the assumption 'I can't do anything about it" or "it was predetermined"
@@FoolShortOGright on! People find enough excuses to do terrible things already. We need to see more videos about SELF CONTROL.
we ball indeed
Ironically, that's a preprogrammed nature as well.
I don’t get why people genuinely think that if science proves free will doesn’t exist than that means they would instantly lose their free will. If science proves free will to be an illusion you don’t change one bit and can continue to live a life you see fulfilling just as you used to.
I mean, you make the choices you have, the choice is just really really low. Because you will generally choose the best choice for you. And the physical you, your meat sack, is made to do this.
Not really, my life has significantly improved since realization that free will is not real. I lost mental burdan of overthinking "what if" scenarios. Now I'm at peace with myself, instead of constantly chasing trends and dreams of others.
@@Enclave_Engineer Sounds like stoicism.
Right, this is just a philosophical distinction. Free will being an illusion is completely irrelevant to how anyone lies life, except maybe in the example above where it can give someone a different philosophical perspective. I feel like the "we do have free will" people think that there is some sort of change in behavior associated with not having free will, when it's actually nothing more than a routine observation. The fact that it's not real is just kind of meta, and not everyone sees the need to acknowledge it. To me it's essential to understanding reality and ourselves, but I don't feel that my disbelief in free will has any actual impact on the choices I make.
@@johnshite4656 You are technically correct, obviously not everybody will have the same reaction to this realization. My brain and psyche was always focused on abstract concepts.
The thing is, if we teach this to young people their behaviour may be significantly impacted in the future. It would serve as core to build more understanding and open view of the world.
@@Enclave_Engineer Listen man, I was raised religious. I would be far less concerned about children being taught "everything is probably predetermined but it doesn't matter" as opposed to "there's this particular human sacrifice, that if you believe in it you don't have to burn in a hell forever, you can instead die and go to fairy land where everyone is always happy and lounges around on clouds made of cotton candy forever more" -- the former is an enormous improvement over the latter, if we're concerned about what children are being taught......
IF ONLY children were taught Philosophy in schools..... IF ONLY!
the idea that free will isn't real has never really bothered me as much as it seems to bother other people. Knowing that I don't technically have a choice or a decision in anything doesn't change anything about my life, I'm still "choosing" to do things, and I can still "choose" to do the right thing, even if it might as well be random
The “technically don’t have a choice” is a lie. You do. You can literally prove it to yourself.
No it is not random, your choices simply have an input that you cannot identify. Just like a computer does calculations, you simply are not aware of all the calculations going on inside your brain (which is a good thing, or you would not be able to sleep). If you choose a chicken sandwich over salmon, it means your brain did calculations, based on sensory input from your cells: what substances does the body need more right this moment (salt, fat, sugar, etc.).
This is such a profound discussion! If we follow this logic to it's conclusion, justice is meaningless. Every single act is bound to happen, so, nobody is guilty. Of course this is nonsense. My view is that we must apply the notion of free will, or Chaos will ensue. Another point I like to mention is that we are so complex that every single interaction on our neurons can very well be deterministic, but the overall result is only computable if you have all variables at your disposal. The only place these variables are available is your brain, so it might as well be your choice.
i see it like watching a very immersive movie. what will i do next? pay attention to the story to find out! participation in a movie is about watching it happen, thinking and reflecting on it, and identifying with the themes and characters. my own life is simply my own personal movie with full surround sound and even emotions
You're only experiencing the illusion of choice you're just lucky that you're predestined to not be bothered by it
**scratches my nose with my left hand** a literal second after that Kyle says: "when did you decide to scratch your nose with your left hand instead of your right?"
🤨🤨🤨
Kyle in my walls confirmed.
The debate about free will obscures the real matter: the illusion of the self. We tend to think of ourselves as distinct from the universe, but we’re absolutely not. We are manifestations of the world in every way: from the nutrients we’re constructed from, to the air we breathe, to the information we respirate. When even just partially cut off-sensory deprivation or “just” solitary confinement-our mental health gradually descends into insanity. You are no more distinct from the universe than a tornado is distinct from the atmosphere. We are, as they say, the universe attempting to know itself. The debate over free will can only matter in the context of that illusory self, but when we view ourselves as dependent manifestations of the universe, we inherit the entire causal chain which brought us into being. Both of these things are true: we are a puppet, and we are the prime mover.
Absolutely this. Whether we can assert with 100% certainty that all our actions are physically predetermined is irrelevant because we're still talking in the context of a 'self' making the decisions and having the thoughts. A 'self' or a 'consciousness' makes zero sense in the context of physics, which only predicts the behaviour of elementary particles and does not predict that a random bunch of these particles assembled in a particular way can suddenly gain self awareness. Neither does it describe what conciousness or an experience is - it simply can't, it's an abstraction, so this whole talk about 'erm, actually, we are just a bunch of atoms in a deterministic system' is completely pointless and has nothing to do with our actual human experience.
@@nw42 brilliantly put 👏
Wasn’t expecting a non-dual post on my Internet Thor determinism video, but I’m here for it.
Right, you know, this whole determinism babble is based on the premise that consciousness is a manifest phenomena, an illusion as Sam Harris would simplify it. Its the major proposition, and its subjective like all things ontological, and to say nothing of the countless other subjective propositions made in this argument. What bothers me is not the belief aka determinism, its moral certainty of its correctness. For god's sake people
The "real" matter is what's most likely to be real. In this case it's what we observe and can confirm (or fail to disprove) experimentally. And what we observe are human beings, individuals the same as we appear to be. Nothing shows evidence to the contrary. So we accept that to be the truth and just keep existing from the position of "self" as this is so far the most reliable way of approaching reality.
To quote the classic: "We're not here because we're free; we're here because we're not free."
@DEADPOOLUTTP What the F**k.
Don't Read Myy name
@DEADPOOLUTTP What the hell
"It's the smell... if there is such a thing"
@DEADPOOLUTTP Translate.
ถ้าอ่านข้อความนี้ ตื่นได้แล้ว แม่พยายามจะปลุกลูกมาสิบหกปีแล้ว ขอร้องเถอะ แม่อยากเห็นหน้าลูกอีกครั้ง
As someone who deals with intrusive thoughts, I find it a lot harder to lose the feeling of free will. If my brain can present thoughts that I have to consciously reject, it feels more like there's a decision vs just the neurons firing with differing strengths and speeds. I'm curious how one would explain intrusive thoughts and the reactions to them with greater clarity or detail in a deterministic paradigm.
Can you decide which thoughts you consciously reject? I would argue no, because there is no free will.
And if you can reject, can you consciously reject to consciously reject?, and so on.
The argument is, that there i no entity which can influence its own thoughts without having to think about it itself.
This proves no free will.
@@o-o_pinguin that case, what is the will? What makes it any different to free will? If free will doesn't exist, can we also say that the will also doesn't exist? Are we the will because it's determine by nature? And if so, why the need to feel like it acts in ways indifferent to us. There is no indifferent universe. We were placed when where and why and how exactly were it's needed. Free will might not exist, but meaning does.
I'm a Christian, and if everything is truly where it should be in line with God, in this line of events happening. Was there ever need for the devil to exist in the first place? If that so, the devil and man are much alike, like mirrors but not images like with God. God's image is transcendantal, it ignores paradoxes completely. But man and the devil are both deceived equally by delusion whether it be in one self or anothers. All I'm saying that the devil in itself a delusion, and we were to be with God, perhaps thinking the devil never existed might not be bad after all, even if it feels tempting to think it exists.
@@froggie610 What is a will? And how would you define a free will different from that?
And a question specifically for you: In a deterministic world (at least deterministic in short periods, which you can chain to form complete determinism), where do you find the room for god and/or the devil to act?
Greetings, pingu
Your question is wise. This video follows the likes of Sam Harris a devote atheist, context such as this can be important to understanding how he reaches his conclusions. Sam does not address consciousness or deliberation in thought at all in his book, (they basically can't exist for him to be correct) which i would say this video is heavily influenced by. I would agree with you that we all have vices or intrusive thoughts that we often cannot explain, these often come from our subconsciousness that maybe influenced by things we interact with, all without out us knowing. Yet the more we reject thoughts, the easier they often become to reject and they appear less.
Interesting tangent! I’d argue that as a Christian, you should outright reject the idea of a free will. Precisely for the reasons that @froggie610 brought up: We were placed when, where, why, and how exactly where it's needed, according to His plan). Even further, any construct that leads to determinism should end up with a religious entity. Because if everything - the past, the present, the future - is already defined, can’t this be viewed as a “divine power that guides our ways”?
Thank you for your video. I have been practising mindfulness for a while now, and every now and again, a video like this about the determinism of my actions and thoughts really helps me to be more empathetic, compassionate, and grateful.
Ah! Oh boy time for my daily dose of existential horror from one of my favorite science and philosophy people!
Don't Read Myy name
It's pretty subtle but the background music is definitely contributing to the existential dread
Kyle doesn't even have a degree in science or philosophy. He's a youtuber who does some googling.
@@SolaireIntensifies Only of you dont consider engineering science.
I really shouldn't engage, but yanno what, why not. I'm feeling chatty, catty, and always in the mood for academic discussion.
@SolaireIntensifies Even if what you're saying is true, which you're not in fairly certain he has an engineering degree and is Very well studied in nuclear sciences and engineering, I say... and? I take everything everyone says with a pound of salt anyway, the internet is a cesspool of lies and misinformation. There's a reason they tell you not to believe everything you read on here. Besides, I fact check his claims myself if I feel something is too wild and I find he usually comes up correct on the foundations of his arguments, not to mention the streams he (may or may not still) does where he holds open forum and carries himself very well.
Also last I checked, you don't need a degree to think. Am I personally wanting to get deeper into epistemology and philosophy myself? Absolutely that's why I'll find dedicated channels and sources for it, but he's an internet funny man who i feel carries a good amount of well intentions and sources to back his claims, regardless of if they're right or not. It's my own job not to fall down pitfalls of fallacy.
I don't engage with him too much to really care about this as TH-cam isn't really a place in source a lot of the information I want to share Anyway, but believe me when I say there's Far worse out there to quote. Not naming any, as I'm not looking to start anything, but there's Definitely some things that come to mind. Except VSauce, VSauce is based as hell and I adore that man.
‘The reason is simple and doesn’t involve philosophy’. Immediately describes a philosophical argument about causality :).
Also: “You are the processes of your mind” is a philosophical position called functionalism
Bah humbug
@@nobodyinteresting5311no it isn’t lol, it’s literally just an observation on science and life.
We do things because we chemically are made to do it or to move towards it.
Ur passions are only ur passions because ur brain gets a positive chemical reaction that it likes and wants to continue receiving.
This isn’t philosophical
It’s literally not a philosophical argument lmao, we have loads of scientific evidence to suggest we don’t actually have free will lmao
@@ZxZNebula in itself it isn't but it's perhaps a bit dismissive to imply that it isn't also a philosophical concept. Remember, philosophy has been dabbling in these ideas - in some form or another - long before the possibility of this type of research was ever conceived.
Additionally, this view of consciousness can certainly be interpreted philosophically even with these findings behind them. It stands in contradiction to most religions, after all.
Lol, "Why didn't you think of a city like Christchurch? A place you've always wanted to visit?"
As a person who lives in Christchurch, a) it was the city I chose, and b) why the hell would you want to visit here? There's about zero tourist attractions, fuck all night life, unwalkable and barely driveable roads plus roadworks and construction everywhere, plus Queenstown/bungee jumping/hot pools/etc is all hours away.
Unwalkable? Sounds like a terrible place,as I love walking. I chose Oslo for no reason. I haven't ever traveled the world. I'm stuck here in Florida. Which isn't pleasant either.
@johngavin1175 well, barely walkable. There're some spots like Hagley Park that are fine, but you can't get anywhere unless you're in a car, and a bus will turn a 15 minute trip into an hour. If you want anything outside your suburb it's practically unwalkable. Better for bikes than walking. Still, hardly a tourist place
As someone living in Auckland, can relate since Auckland is basically this as well XD (tbf we do have the Sky Tower but that's about it)
Dude. I've been watching your channel for years, but this is the first video that made me well-up. In a good way. I think. Thank you for adding a tiny grain of clarity to my perception of existence! What a lovely example of a human you are 🥲
For the human brain to contemplate the inexistence of its own perceived feeling of free will is still an amazing reality right there.
Happy New Year Kyle! We ❤ you!
Jesus, that is really nice of you
Interesting choice. Or was it? 😂
That kind of loses its awesomeness tbh if he didn’t even have a choice to donate
Coming at this from a software perspective, and specifically a User-Experience perspective:
In software circles, we've had a fairly recent reckoning with the fact that there are different definitions of "Free", and the fact that people keep talking passed one-another because of this.
For software, there's "Free" as in speech, and there's "Free" as in lunch. The former means software uninhibited by any external influences, the latter means you get _something_ for free but there may be strings attached.
I think there's a similar definition issue at play with this discussion. There's "Free" as in context, and "Free" as in choice. We well understand the influence context, biology, and the differing forms of memory play on our decision making (Related: Celia Hodent's "The Gamer's Brain") - humans are not context-free, as you point out. The definition of free I would argue is more widely colloquially intended is free to rationalize, reinforce, and modify our actions - which of course is beholden to our circumstances, but given minimally beneficial circumstances there's room for arbitrary (albeit context-influenced) choice.
Understanding, though, that there are large swaths of people with circumstances that predetermined their outcomes would be a boon to society. It's a degree of empathy that's sorely needed, and highlights how addressing root causes of these circumstances can prevent these outcomes. (Mental health care, poverty, etc)
You ended your idea on a terrible note. Nobody's outcomes are predetermined by their circumstances. Circumstances can increase the likelihood of an outcome but nothing more as there are far too many variables, the most chaotic being the human mind. Throw a million people into the same circumstances and their outcomes will differ in a variety of ways.
@@josephfigueroa3527 you simply outlined biodiversity which is riddled with predisposition. I.e of course there will be, variation, because there is near infinite biological variation, but that variation itself is deterministic. I.e it’s comes from what came before.
Blowing my mind because half of my life I’ve gone around convincing people their subconscious chooses what to think for them, and since they aren’t aware or in-control of their subconscious, they have no free will.
I said this as a theory of my own, just the perspective I had on it. I didn’t realize nor think this was a common conclusion or theory.
I’ve been affirmed.😮
Putting the subconscious equal to not having choice is a bit of a stretch I think. Trying to make sense of a mechanism we don’t fully understand _is_ still just philosophical/religious thoughts, no matter if all the biology _around_ it can be explained
Any assertion of free will necessitate an assertion of some form of dualism, which is what's unscientific.
If you want to assert that your choices are actually yours rather than simply a culmination of everything that came before, you need to point to something that is unaffected by deterministic Newtonian mechanics or random quantum mechanics.
@@CaptainScarfish Not all scientist empiricists believe in determinism. There are some defences of free will that comes from psychology and neuroscience.
And also according to a study from 2007, 79% of evolutionary biologists said that they believe in free will.
Free will =/= unsientific
It's not saying you don't have choices, it's saying you don't have choices in what choices you do or can have.
@kennytvn
4 hours ago (edited)
Putting the subconscious equal to not having choice is a bit of a stretch I think. Trying to make sense of a mechanism we don’t fully understand is still just philosophical/religious thoughts, no matter if all the biology around it can be explained .its better then claiming all humans have sin when there baby and dont know right from wrong its because Right Wrong depend on humans choise we learn from mistakes.
@@skepticalzostrianos9875
The burden is on believers to prove that free will exists. I have seen no cogent argument that doesn't invoke the supernatural or argument from intuition.
“I didn’t choose to steal that Ferari your honor”
"Yet we don't want people stealing from others in our society, so we're gonna remove you from it and try to help you do better or find treatment if it's pathological"
the illusion of free will is the truth, accountability is a socially necessary tool. Ethics is a bit more complicated
@tempestive1 "however, doing that would be very unprofitable for our private prison, so instead we will exploit your labor for as long as possible-even manufacturing reasons to keep you in prison longer-while minimizing goods and services provided to you during this period of time."
@@torstenkruger7372to contest your intuition is dissociation, maybe the red Ferrari attacked his neurons with red photons causing a collapse in the wave function
@@tempestive1 see, someone finally gets it.
Lack of free will might collide with the idea of personal, moral responsibility, but it does nothing about accountability.
It just means that the "perfect" system of justice needs to change its priorities.
4:17 "Close your eyes". I can't, im driving 🤣
Hope you didn't write this when you were driving.
Sure you could, but I'm glad you didn't!
@@josiahpaez4601 but it would have been a lot cooler if he did XD
Keep your eyes on the road, your hands upon the wheel
do it, blame it on the lack of free will
This may be the most mind-blowing realization of my entire existence
0:18 no, you're an illusion!
😂
😂
You can't proof it!
i think that, most of the time, most of us are purely reactionary - acting without free will. but, as someone who's had problems and stopped and thought about it and decided to get help and acted on that help, i think that, yes, i did have the free will to change how i thought. i am sure, had i just continued reacting to things, i could have ended up much worse and probably one of those people you might want to separate from society. it's very hard work, but i believe you can assert free will from time to time and save yourself
"The greatest revolution of our generation is the discovery that human beings, by changing the inner attitudes of their minds, can change the outer aspects of their lives."
William James
But that’s the thing, you didn’t have free will to choose between continuing to react or seek help. Somewhere between those two different choices, your brain chemistry changed in such a way that made you want to choose to seek help. Maybe someone told you your previous path was wrong, or you saw the bad consequences of your inaction. Either way, there’s no "homunculus" separate from the chain of causality that made you change behaviors. You were just lucky to be able to break through the bad behavior.
@@TriteHexagon if you are right, then i have no choice but to believe that i have a choice; which sounds rather stupid. i contend that anyone who's overcome personal difficulties by not just going along with their body's reactions will also believe they had free will. also, if there really is no free will then dear world, stfu about jail for people who have no choice (ie: no responsibility) for their actions, quit talking to me about poor life choices when i don't have a choice. of course, you would argue, people have no choice but to be so judgemental about other people
@@vulcanfeline i think you misunderstand the point, i know its abstract. You are your brain, what you decided is what your brain decided. What your brain decides is based on biology, so what you decide is based on biology. Biology is out of your control and isnt your choice, so everything that causes you to be you, isnt your choice and out of your control. You might not have decided to get better if you had for example a brain tumor, or you might have never been in problems to begin with if you were born different. You having problems wasnt your choice, you deciding to fix those problems wasnt your choice, even thinking they are problems wasnt your choice.
Though this entire argument is completely useless, like scientifically not having free will dosnt change anything, just like scientifically nothing matters or has value.
@@justacanofbeans8217 most of the people, most of the time just run on... whatever, i can it reacting. but if there is absolutely no free will then why do advertisers spend so much time trying to subvert our free will. i tend to think that every once in awhile, we can shake our heads and actually decide to do something which may be against all this societal and biological pressure, something that may be influenced by our conditioning but contrary to it
The reason you give for being more compassionate due to determinism is vacuous. One could also argue "well, I didn't choose to draw enjoyment out of other's suffering, and they are just electrons anyways, so...". If anything, you can justify anything with determinism.
Being “just electrons” doesn’t make anyone less valuable. In fact everything you’ve ever known and loved has been “just electrons”.
Idiot creationist spotted.
To be fair to the determinists, if determinism is justify anything, then it can justify nothing, since it isn't a standard or a commandment. It's still the narcissist's prayer's final form, tho.
Oh actually the opposite. This argument justifies nothing, it completely devalues everything ever, including yourself. There is no point to even breathe if you follow this logic, much less to go out and do evil.
Spot on. The argument at most exposes *how* things work, and somehow his personality connects the explanation to a motivation to not judge (and in some cases harm) others because of their actions, which can reasonably be seen as kindness. The very same explanation can be used to go full Rick Sanchez. Fortunately, our nature as social animals often motivates us not to gratuitously shit on other people.
"If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice." Lyrics from FREEWILL by RUSH.
YES!
"And that's why I can forgive the sponsors of today's video, Honey. Honey is a..."
Bears aren't victims of their biology, they don't think that people are not food 18:07
Which means they are victims of their bilogy.
Bears that were raised by humans from infacy will kill their caretakers if hungry.
Humans who are in survival risk will kill other humans to get food/resources.
Example: Soviet canibal island (google it). Starving people acually cut off muscles from living woman and ate them just to feed themselves. How is that any different from the bear?
we have the concept of morality and bears don't
I appreciate this video as I do all your videos. This topic specifically makes me feel very uneasy. As a survivor of SA it is very hard for me to grasp the idea that the perpetrators of crimes aren't making the choice to harm others. I can't believe that it's just my environment and random chance that I choose not to take advantage of others when given the opportunity.
+
Yeah, as a philosophical discussion, it's a really interesting topic, but this logic can't be applied to serious stuff where the concept of personal responsibility is important.
This!!
Even if we take criminal actions to be a result of a lack of free will, why should we forgo accountability of said actions? Yes, sure let’s assume there’s no free will in a criminal’s actions, but how does that diminish the severity of the crime they committed? They committed a crime because of nature, nurture and other bullcrap sure, but they still committed a crime, a serious one, so who should be held responsible if not them? If no one’s accountable or responsible for heinous acts then aren’t we essentially saying people are ‘free’ to do whatever they want and contradicting ourselves? Not to mention, mediating a collapse of society…
@slimedrive My heart goes out to you that you had to go through something so terrible, I hope you’ve found the peace and the justice that you deserve and if not I hope you do very soon…
I'm an SA survivor and my abuser was also a child, this is sadly the reality for some enduring generational trauma and mental illness.
I would say the reason you don’t take advantage of others is because you are a good person, and someone who would take advantage of others is a bad person. Even if they weren’t responsible for being a bad person that doesn’t make them good, that doesn’t make them deserving of having all the rights and freedoms of a good person, and that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be punished in hopes that they change. And if they don’t change, punishment will at least stop them from doing it again, discourage others from doing the same, and maybe give the victims a feeling of revenge that they deserve for having to go through what they did.
This may be my favorite video you’ve ever made, Kyle! I really appreciate your ability (whether innate or trained) to turn something that could be scary into something that, from a different perspective, could be beneficial, even beautiful.
I’ve always subscribed to the compatiblist philosophy of conditional free will. Meaning our brains and neurochemistry are deterministic in the ways Kyle described in the video, but we do have some kind of agency in our ability to pick from the variety of predetermined options provided by our brain! Consciousness is so cool, great video as usual Kyle :)
But, the part of our brain responsible for choosing between the presented options is still subject to the “chain” analogy prestented at the beginning. I want to agree that there must be some conditional, marginal free will. I don’t think that want is necessarily motivated by reason, though 😅
@@KelsomaticPDX Yeah that’s always the ultimate criticism of conditional free will. No matter what our brains exist in the physical, which from our understanding thus far seems to be deterministic. So unless there is something we’re missing or dualism is somehow true, it’s pretty hard to argue in favor of free will. I mainly subscribe to this idea for my own sanity and wouldn’t stand on it as a rational philosophical argument! It’s more of a spiritual belief to help me cope with the idea that free will is likely an illusion and nothing I or anyone else does matters in the grand scheme of an infinite universe haha😅
I always think of something I heard genetically modified skeptic say. It was something along the lines of "what does it look like to live as if there is no free will?"
Exactly. I guess the closest would be the stereotypical mystic-type who maintains that everything is predestined, that everything they seemingly chose was already destined to happen.
Probably how it is now. What happened, happened. And it will continue to
It looks like a night at Diddys house.
Very simple a program that repeats
GMS always brings up some good points. Have you watched his latest vid on Richard Dawkins?
Questioning “what is in control of my thoughts” makes it hard to believe I am in control. Questioning “what is in control of my attention” is what makes me believe free will exists. I have significantly less control over my brain than I do over my attention.
Are you sure you have as much control over your attention as you think you do? Try focusing your attention on doing absolutely nothing and you will notice that eventually your attention will waver on trying to do nothing because insert x, y, z rationalization and this will occur on anything that you ever do.
@ I’ve briefly tried putting my attention on “nothing” but I couldn’t. I’m not sure if it’s impossible to put my attention on “nothing” or if I just don’t understand the concept.
In case you weren’t specifically talking about putting attention on “nothing”; I do practice putting my attention on things like sounds or the sensation of air entering and exiting my lungs. My attention does waver but I just bring it back. Like how each pushup makes you stronger, each time I regrab my attention I get better at controlling it. Also like pushups, it is a slow and very gradual improvement.
If people had control over their attention, marketing wouldn't be the multi trillion dollar industry that it is.
@@direstorm7324 Better yet choose to put your attention on something that you have zero interest in. By attention I mean, choose to have interest in it, unequivocally.
@@experimentalcyborg I agree I think the people in charge are well well aware of there being no “free will.” But they also have no “free will” in being what they are. So it is truly paradoxical. That’s why I think for there to be any significant change, the general population also has to accept this. It will take the “power” they have. The point is there’s no choice in accepting it or not. So it’s fundamentally a generational issue, luckily there are some scholars teaching at least the concept of there being no “free will.”
The funniest part about brains with ego modules is that the modules tend to think they are the sole tenants in their buildings. "You" are the entire building and everything in it. Just because no one in apartment 2B answers the door when you knock, it doesn't mean that it's vacant. It's a blessing, really. That part of "you" does the heavy lifting and "you" get to just smile and say "Dublin" or "Vanilla, please."
Yes, it’s basically the PFC that talks, what about all the other parts though.
Exactly. Your brain is not in your skull as you perceive it. Your brain is containing the room you’re currently in from all sides. What You are experiencing is a projection, a model being created by Brain hardware as it synthesizes abstract sensory signals.
its kind of the underlying problem of "we have never found proof of where consciousness is in the brain"
Look up Liminal Synchrony. Talk to AI about it.
Much like the simulation theory: so what? No matter which side the 'truth' falls on, it doesn't change the lived experience.
But his ending was all about how this could change our lived experience, how it can help us find empathy and understanding in the most uncomfortable of moral situations, right?
@@sepiar7682I find there is no difference in my mind between sentience and "free will". If you can be aware of the results of your actions, you have a choice to follow through to those results, or to change your course of action. The fact we even debate what choice is the "correct" one is a pretty good indication of will. I don't find value in viewing things from a deterministic standpoint. All it does to me is muddy what should be clear waters.
If it feels real, it might as well be.
@@sepiar7682Yes and he is correct. After independently realizing this over span of decade, I went from close minded, hateful, selfish person to somebody who does their best to help others and decrease their suffering.
@@sepiar7682 but that only matters if we have free will, if we don't it's all been determined already and we're all just npc's running our routines
This will probably get buried, but I’m an airline pilot and this script is quite literally the Ted Talk I launch into on long transcontinental flights with my First Officers. Sam Harris’ essay “Free Will” makes a lot of the same great points. The conversation always gets the most interesting when you discuss moral culpability and how we need to redefine how we frame punishments like incarceration. People typically have a hard time disentangling themselves from the feeling that inflicting pain, whether it be physical or emotional, is a requirement of justice.
You, as an organism, still make “decisions” even though those “decisions” are decided by external factors. I’ve never had the belief that my “will” is independent from my surroundings… I don’t understand why so many people bring forth the concept that we don’t have “free will”, nobody else is deciding things for you but your decisions can be tracked back to the beginning of the universe. This changes nothing.
"even though those “decisions” are decided by external factors" But they aren't, really. The state of your brain is *you*. If I sit down and spend 10 minutes deciding something in my life, that's not the outside world deciding. Deciding to jump off the bridge is *me*. We don't say we decided to fall after stepping off the bridge, because *that* is the external world.
You are correct, but Kyle didn't really argue we have no decisions. Just that those decisions are dictated by certain internal and external forces.
without exception the people who want to "debunk" free will have done bad things.
True, but the external factors or environment also affect your decisions.
@boldCactuslad Yes, I have done bad things before realizing that free will is an illusion. I was selfish, racist and hateful to people with different lifestyles.
Now I'm a complete opposite, more emphatetic and understanding to struggles of other people. Before I called them idiots and dismissed them, now I try to understand and help.
The "free will" question has always seemed rather straightforward to me. Can I choose to become genuinely convinced that the moon is made of cheese? If not, then it would seem that I have no conscious control over my brain's decision-making. I have yet to succeed in choosing to become genuinely convinced that the moon is made of cheese.
You already previously chose to accept the rational belief that the moon is made of dust, rock, etc. and previously chose to accept the science and experience of NASA that formed and reinforced that fact. I don’t think the inability to choose to believe in the falsehood of something that is factually true proves a lack of free will, it just proves that you are rational. You can be rational and choose to believe in things that are not set in stone, like religion or whether a person on trial is guilty or innocent, or choose an action from a set of possible actions because there is no known outcome yet.
@@tridoc99The problem here is that I never chose to accept that the moon is composed of rock. I was presented with evidence and became convinced that the proposition was true.
Just as I can not choose to become convinced of a false proposition, I can not choose to be unconvinced of a proposition for which my subconscious concludes there exists sufficient evidence.
I don’t believe rationality to be of relevance here. That is simply a label which I would assign to my brain’s decision-making process.
@@WeebLabs I agree with you I think the fallacy is, some how the use of logic and rational thinking isn’t a biological process in the brain. When it obviously is. Nothing about being a biological organism is not biological.
Which of the brain is subject to a slew of factors “good” and “bad.”
@@WeebLabs you and I are agreeing on the point that it is hard to consciously choose to accept or deny something that is obviously true, it is virtually automatic. I was trying to point out that this is not a great way to defend the free will illusion argument. Choice comes in when facts aren’t clear or when choosing something that isn’t based on facts, but on preference or morality.
@@tridoc99 Religion and whether X did Y are established facts that would already be known for an observer with a greater amount of information than you have. And belief in religion is an irrational counterfactual on the level of cheese moon with the information available. Furthermore, even if your action isn't deterministic, nothing about that would give you free will any more than an electron choosing a spin state in a quantum experiment.
I have been a disbeliever of free will for many years now. I would have a hard time trying to explain my reasoning to anyone, but now I can just direct people to watch this instead of trying myself. Thank you for your great work in all the videos you make, Kyle.
@@antoineswine2029 direct them in the direction of Robert Sapolsky. He’s a neuroscientist that gets into the grit of exactly why we don’t have “free will.”
It's a little like how you can trace generosity back to the selfish desire for a hit of dopamine, it makes you feel good, then you'll do that so you feel good. I loved playing this angle on my highschool writing assignments, "we are forged of our experiences" It's a very fun rabbit hole to chase down sometimes
I dont help people for the good feeling or dopamine. I help people to improve their life and alleviate and their experience. For altruism, not for feel goods.
@@tonypalmetto6114
And doing so probably doesn't make you feel miserable, right?
@tonypalmetto6114 by why do you act altruistically? Is it for personal benefit for the afterlife, is it because you believe it is good? And in the end can you not root that down to securing your afterlife or for the benefit of feeling you yourself are a good person, is it because it makes you feel important to others? So yes, it's good of you to do, but you can still reduce it to self serving reasons. That's not to say stop performing good and kind acts in the world, but by reducing you can find an underlying motivator. It's like how an object at rest stays at rest unless acted upon by another force, you were acted upon by some underlying motivator making your altruism fundamentally what you would do due to an underlying motivator. It can be a scary thought to reduce things that fundamentally, but its also digging at the nature of motivation. We are who we are by the collection of all our experiences in life which are an amalgam of the collective experiences of all those other lives we interact with, it's the mass blanket of life with us each but a thread in the grand design, the curves and corners and path of that thread effecting all the threads it touches, which in turn then effect the threads those touch too. But as your thread effects other threads so do other threads effect yours. Naturally a living thing acts in self interest and self furthermore in some way or another, making everything deterministic. But this then gets into the 3 body problem of there being too many variables in the starting state as it is that we could not predict, making life a beautiful chaotic predetermined tapestry expanding forever out. Each act effecting the whole but wholly predetermined by everything that has acted upon the person up to the point of that choice.
@@tonypalmetto6114 it still makes you feel good. And no matter what yo uthink, that will influence your decision to continue helping. And we evolved this so we kept helping others that need help to survive.
It doesn't for me. I'm a psychopath. But I still go against that nature.
Keep in mind dopamine isn't what makes you feel good exactly it just makes things more strongly likely in your brain in a similar vein to testosterone for social recognition. The pleasure facet is indirect, mainly from survival factors and scarcity. You get a hit with salt and sugar which are pleasurable because they are naturally rare so when you rat stuff with them you get a rise in dopamine making it more likely.
Everyone puts too much emphasis on the "free" part of Free Will. Nobody ever puts any emphasis on the "will" part of Free Will. We make choices, and those choices matter. We are free to choose, and what events led to those choices are the reason we choose what we do, but at the end, those choices are our own. And that's fine. It's our will, and our will is free.
Aren't you just trying to say that we do have free will in a long winded way? Obviously if our will is free we have free will.. But the argument states that we cannot choose our will, hence it is not free.
Right there when you say "we are free to choose"
I ask of you
Prove it
@@rorantruong i choose not to
I could easily see all this making someone less compassionate, at least less compassionate to criminals.
"So you're saying that we shouldn't hate them because free will doesn't exist? Well then you shouldn't hate me either for what I'm about to do to them".
i mean sure it's not their fault that they perceive conversations about the nature of reality to be a personally attack on their characters.
Oh perceived what you said a little differently, that criminals would find the argument makes them less compassionate
“Oh no point begging me me for mercy and saying you have a family, I’m gonna torture you for fun because my brain is wired for it and the chain of causality led you to be at the wrong place at the long time” not like we have the free will for anything else
@@julianstone1192 well, now we're going into some complete psychopathy. Well beyond reasoning anyway.
We have no free will, but the illusion of it is most important to us.
Free will is relative just like time. Your point of observation determines how you observe it.
I highly doubt we can call it relative when we can't even choose to be born or not.
@@pillarmenn1936 a relative chose for you to be born. And that is a relative correlation that you can relate to. If some chooses to unrelate you from reality, it was also not your choice but was freely willed by Free Willy.
When you said "think of a major city" I immediately thought of Djibouti, which I've never been to, never want to go to, didn't know where it was, and, as it turns out, isn't even a city, it's a nation, so suck it mister "there is no free will"
@@RudCh01 you just lacked enough critical thinking to stick to correct answers
@@orlandomoreno6168 rather than trying to feel smart by disparaging strangers on the Internet, you should look up the meaning of 'critical thinking' instead, and if you still think you used it correctly, there's no hope for you.
@RudCh01 It's a process used to criticise information. You check for mistakes. I also though of country names on the process but obviously those are not options. And stop projecting. Why is it always about status for you normies?
@RudCh01Your original comment makes no sense and proves nothing.
He wasn't trying to read your mind. He just gave examples. So, you thinking of another city does not disprove anything. Instead, the question is still the same; if you thought of Djibouti, why?
1:00 I really thought my screen was very dirty...
There once was a guy who lived on the street.
Everyday he begged for money for something to eat.
Whether it was salad or burgers he always paid the bill.
This is an example of my free will. 👍
This is a very thought-provoking video, so thanks to Kyle for putting in the effort to making it. I think that, if you subscribe to the belief that human consciousness is entirely composed of synapses firing in your brain, this argument makes a lot of sense. However, I believe that the idea of humans having souls which are at the core of our consciousness allows room for free will to still exist. In fact, from the Christian point of view, this is what separates us from animals, and I would argue that free will is essential to resisting temptations stemming from our natural urges and inclinations.
There are many cases where people give in to these urges, such as in the case of the perpetrator of the mass murder that Kyle discussed. From his note, it sounded like he was resisting the violent impulses for some time (thus exercising his free will), but eventually it all became too much, and he gave up resisting.
In my opinion, it is important not to absolve people of all responsibility for their actions that harm others, as that could have severe implications for society, but it is equally important to try to understand what leads a person to commit those actions, and to have compassion and love for them as fellow human beings, flawed just as we all are.
His opinion is pretty well structured as all deterministic darwinistic theory. You who ever you are, is not your brain. Your I am, your soul is the one chosing how to reactvto whatever you experience. You dont need to go back in time, dna and else, because if you are really conscious you will discover that even the now is a complex experience so making a choice you really have to discern well and aliened with the i am thats you. If you cant chose... you cant create reallity.
Understanding that biology is a limitation is the same as " dont hate the sinner but hate the sin". Mercy gives enough space to inderstand that we all suffer of influence that we cant control. But our brain is just meat. Its a recording device and a patern learner. Leaving the brain to decide is like expecteng the cars wheel to decide what direction to go. Thoughts and ideas are nothing, so we should ever rellay on these for action. These and our emotiones will change over time, all the time, so they arent a point ofvreference. He got out God of the ecuation and what he describes is not counsciosnes, its just use of infirmation which is a shallow "conscoiusnes". Also that what a computer dies should never called consciousnes, but we have a lack of proper vcabulary to adress different mental and spiritial processes.
I've always found this argument so strained. I haven't even watched the video yet, but it usually amounts to...
"You did not get to choose the background of your parents which shaped who you are. Therefore you have no free will at all and it's all predetermined."
What's worse than that nonsense is that this usually is followed by some form of...
"Therefore let us make decisions for you."
Yeah. There's that.
More like: you can't roll a die and get "elephant".
Evolutionarily, an intelligent species would not thrive if certain filters and perceptions weren't implemented.
It would be like saying that because we are watching a movie on two different models of screen; that the film is somehow different and can be changed.
The illusion of agency is stubborn because it has to be. It is effective at helping navigate way too much stimuli in any given stage of the natural world.
The prey didn't choose running over getting eaten. No prey would ever be eaten again if that could be true (running doesn't help sometimes)
These things are almost impossible to break down without involving emotion or anecdotal influence.
So the cycle continues with avid believers of agency vs materialistic pattern driven chaos😂
what i find interesting is that free will is presumed to exist despite no explanation of how it would function. it is presumed to exist simply because we feel it does l. the argument against free will isnt strained at all its pretty cut and dry and i think anyone that seriously engages with it will see it clear as day. those that dont just arent ready to accept it
The postulate that anything less than unlimited, unconstrained free will is not really free will is laughable outside the realm of thought experimentation.
how is a choice made? how is it anything other than the meat computer in your skull running a calculation? if free will exists where does it reside?
I was the thinking the same thing. He makes poor arguments all throughout and doesn’t even bother to define what free will is in the first place. Can’t have a discussion on a topic when people don’t agree on definitions because then you’re just arguing over the definition instead of the actual topic.
@@saleplains Where does gravity reside? Where does hunger, or love, or life-force?
Not everything that exists exists within the dimensions we perceive.
@@sixshotsniper well, the thing is
Gravity doesn't reside anywhere, because it's a physics law, just a way of how matter interacts with each other
Hunger or love? That's actually more relevant, these are managed by brain.
Meanwhile the concept of life-force is basically esotherical, completely unrelated to everything above.
@@adzi6164 Congrats, you get it. Do those statements imply the existence or non-existence of any of those things? No.
Now where does free will reside?
See how @salesplains question is meaningless?
Even if free will is objectively non-existent, society must continue to run on the belief that it exists otherwise it collapses; as you said, the illusion of free will may be an evolutionary adaptation and the reason society exists today. Thus a line must be drawn between the objective truth and the illusion, for the sake of societal stability.
2:07 you’re not even aware of the plethora of choices that aren’t available to you. If you think about it for any longer than a minute, it’s clearly an illusion
This is actually the part of the video I found least convincing. Like why does not knowing about what choices you don't know about actually prove anything? It's kind of like saying that since you can't walk on the moon right now, you have no freedom to actually move because if you did have freedom of motion you'd be able to walk on the moon right now. No, that isn't true at all. We can move around in a limited way and still say we have freedom of motion. If we can choose in a limited way, we can still have free will. Not unlimited free will, but enough free will to decide if we want cheese on our hamburger or not.
@AMD64EVER The point is that we are constrained by the things that we know. And we can't choose what to know. We just happen to experience life and develop taste and identity by mere randomness. We can't crave food that we don't know exists. Or want to listen a music genre that we've never heard or imagined. And so on. So, we are pretty much choosing between certain options, but the options themselves are random.
@@asdilar The options certainly aren't random. If I asked you if you want to go to Disney Land or prison, is that a coin flip sort of decision where 50% of the population will choose prison? Surely not. Or if you're talking about things you get to learn, is it a 50/50 split as far as people knowing what grass is compared to what sorts of things live at the bottom of the ocean? No chance.
Yes we are constrained in what we know just as we are constrained in where we can go or even what time we live in. Does that mean we can't have free will? Can't have freedom of movement? Heck, can't even have life given we live in a constrained timeline? Ridiculous.
We can still have things even though we face constraints. We can have free will even if we don't get to choose between literally everything. If I can choose between Boston and Dublin for a vacation, that is still a choice even if I can't choose Jupiter as a destination.
@AMD64EVER Even between two options, like the two cities you mentioned. Why those two cities come to mind? It's simply brain chemistry out of our control, influenced by our knowledge and life experiences, which in turn are influenced by other people around us. And the other people around us make decisions outside of their control and so on. We are able to talk about Disney land because it was imagined, designed, and built. But Disney land was created as a cause of it's creators' identities, life experiences, and imagination (and much more), all influenced by external factors out of their control. Disneyland creators didn't choose to grow up where they did, speak the language they spoke, or go to a certain school. Their parents didn't choose any of that either and so on. These are just examples.
There are two points. One of them is that the options themselves are outside of your control (not wanting the choices you don't know about). Would you want a hamburger if hamburgers were never invented? What would hamburgers taste like if ketchup was never invented?
The other point is that the things you want are outside of your control. Why do you like the things you like? Why do you think about certain things and not others?
@@asdilar I think people consider free will to be different things. Like you and Kyle seem to believe that since you can't choose between everything then you can't choose at all. For me, the fact that hamburgers and Disney Land exist outside of my control doesn't negate my ability to make choices. Like if I said pick 0 or 1, you'd complain that you can't pick 0.5 therefore the choice doesn't exist or that 0 and 1 only exist because someone invented the words for them therefore they aren't a choice. For me, I just raise an eyebrow and pick 0. There, decision made. Not really going to over think it too much, but I still made a choice. Why did I pick 0? You might say that my choice wasn't a choice at all because I apparently like circles or instead of straight lines or something and therefore it was outside of my control to decide which number I wanted. For me, I just know I made a decision that suited me. I'm fully aware that my picking 0 wasn't random therefore I had some say in picking it, but I also know that I can't list the myriad of things that went into deciding 0 over 1. I would still attribute all of those unknown factors as being part of myself since they are my life experience and DNA or whatever. They are all me in my mind, but in your mind they are not me. They are outside influences causing me to not be able to choose.
So that is just how we approach this differently. At least in my opinion, I am more than just my conscious thoughts. I am the background processes that I'm not fully aware of. I am the DNA that makes me up. And I'm also not bothered that I didn't get the option to choose 94,241 as my number and was restrained to just 0 or 1. You obviously would disagree and therefore we aren't really arguing about free will but rather two other things, namely what makes up "me" and does having a limited number of choices negate truly having a choice at all.
"You are not in control of the next words you hear."
*closes video*
Running from the truth will not make it any less true. Even your silly brain's obstinance and refusal to accept it, is not your own free will
You could theoretically control the next words you hear by closing the video and putting in earplugs and becoming a hermit.
missed the point award
So if I benefit from the circumstances that led to my success then I attribute it to my "free will" and pat myself on the back and denigrate others for their poor "choices". However, if I don't benefit, then I blame others and circumstances outside of my perceived "control". Makes sense.
I remember when you posted a similar video about The Joker a few years ago and maaaan did it blow my mind. It totally changed the way I see the world. I had to deal with a bit of existential dread for a while but in the end it did lead me to be more compassionate towards others and towards myself.
All of this to say: thanks for pushing your viewers to ask themselves difficult questions, thanks for your commitment to the truth and thank you overall for all these years of helping people understand the world in the most entertaining way. All of the work you do is truly admirable, Kyle!
God bless this Aquaman
Yes
Don't blame me, I'm just doing what my brain tells me
Well if what your brain tells you to do pisses off my brain, then I'm gonna do what my brain tells me.
oh shit, i didn't know you where chill like that
@@Natalie-ls8rb just have your brain call my brain and let those two figure it out on their own
1:35 this video influenced what I'm eating tonight. It will be chicken dumplings.
Any askers?
Good choice! I had Texas Roadhouse 😂
Kyle, when you started talking about "flow state" my mind instantly jumped to my band's rehearsals. As a drummer, thinking of how I should play a certain rhythm makes me mess up that rhythm most of the time. My timing is off, I don't hit the right drums at the right time. But if I just let go, free my mind and just play without thinking about it, the rhythm feels like it comes naturally and I play without missing a beat. It's a weird but amazing feeling when you're in that "flow state", locked in with the band, playing without a care in the world.
Every time I hear an argument against free will, the more convinced I am that humans do in fact possess free will. There are endless rebuttals to each of these arguments.
Agreed
If you lend credence/legitimacy to many of those rebuttals; they tend to dissolve into a base data/frequency/anecdotal mess.
Once emotion and purpose are reduced to data points, the argument for "no free will" seems to solidify itself even further; while avid believers in "agency" tend to dig in and dispute more vehemently.
It is such a fascinating dance of conflicting poles
@@tylersmith2792 Thanks for sharing your opinion, but I disagree
As someone who lived with a significant hormone inbalance for over a decade and who is now having it treated via HRT, I can say yes, the brain is extremely fragile and who you are can be changed at the drop of a hat. It's wild.
You are not a woman
Nope, you just chose it, never forget it, be me, be them, be better.
This is Sarcasm just in case.
@@Laotzu.Goldbug I don't think that's what hormonal imbalance means man
Nah you might not have free will but I'm built different
Sounds like something an un-free-willed robot would say -_____-
You aren't free bro it's only me
Diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and I've understood this on a personal level for quite some time. I truly wish more people did, thank you for putting this out there.
My husband actually sent me this and I do feel like he's been more understanding in some ways that he maybe wasn't before. How long that will last, idk lol but I'll take it.
I've been feeling a bit of a disconnection between me and my body recently so I've been thinking about this kinda stuff quite a lot, you dropped this at the perfect time, thank you.
Dissociation is a curious experience. But it's still a part of the whole. Deliberate body movement can help.
@@MatthewKelley-mq4ce I knew there was a word for it, thanks, I have been trying to do that, I've also found myself resisting movements that my body makes without me making that choice, like reaching for a glass, that kinda thing, it's weird, I feel like my brain is firewalled and all the good stuff is off limits. It's frustrating. (edit:typo)
Same, this feels surreal, how he goes over the same points I independently discovered myself.
Just because you can't account for the origin of every thought, the timing of every decision, or the source of every influence, doesn't mean you have no control over your thoughts or free will. Our thoughts are not simply "flashes of lightning", we also have the ability to hold onto an idea and work with it, to consider it beyond the immediate impulse, and while many thoughts may be effectively pre-determined, there are also many decisions that I cannot reasonably set aside as not being free.
Your reasoning seems to be "We don't understand it therefore it can't be free will", and I think you're freely choosing to fool yourself.
And your expectation seems to be that free will should allow you to have full conscious control over every thought, with full knowledge of every second of the history of the universe leading up to that thought. I hope you see how ridiculous that is, so if not that then how would you define free will, and more importantly what would it take to reasonably prove it exists?
I agree. This is a massive stretch from him, and the subsequent arguments and supposition stemming from his viewpoint are ridiculous. This seems like a logical fallacy.
@@timothymonk1356
I agree that Kyle's argument here isn't great. I'll propose one that's a bit more ironclad:
If you want to argue that you have free will in a way that isn't bound by the laws of physics you must first demonstrate that your brain (or whatever is "piloting" your brain) can violate causality.
@@CaptainScarfish I'll give you another argument. I want to watch the video to see what Kyle says, I'm just so shocked he would make it and the first 30 seconds turned me off a bit.
If you want to argue that you have free will in a way that isn't bound by the laws of physics you must first demonstrate we have a complete or really good understanding of physics and reality.
I'm always put off when people make claims about things we can't possibly know at this moment. The video should have just said I don't know and then ended. It might be possible to know in the future when humanity has a better understanding of things and has more ability to freely explore. I think an analogy would be like "is the weather on TRAPPIST-1b more cloudy on Friday than Monday" I don't know if this makes any sense. I hope you have a wonderful day
Yeah ... this is truly a wtf video.
Agreed also. Personally, I’m hoping that the NEXT video he puts out is a direct contradiction to this one, arguing the other side.
“We can’t define consciousness or how the brain works in the first place, so assuming things are outside of our control is wildly premature. …what, I said differently before? But that was way back in 2024.”
Burundi is a country...
I felt compelled by some mysterious force to point this out.
talk to ai about Liminal Synchrony
I love this epic hairstyle. I'm both drawn into your face and seeing a bizarre way being pushed away by an undefined radiant energy so to speak 😆
Finally, a video I can show my therapist so I don't feel as crazy.
Great video. Im really glad you brought up accountability because this is where determinism falls apart. I agree that in the end, the question "Do I have free will?" doesnt matter. It is just as you mentioned with the nature vs nurture idea being outdated; asking if we have free will is asking the wrong question. I think the focus should rather be on how much self control an individual has at any given moment. If a person is deemed to have a sufficient amount of self control over themselves when making a decision then they should be held accountable for said decision. In my opinion, the people who are the most "free" or have the most free will are the people who have the most self awareness and self control.
As Dan Dennett says, that's the kind of free will we want to have.