Examining Every Use of "Predestination" in the New Testament
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
- Dr. Leighton Flowers examines each and every use of the word "predestination" in the New Testament scriptures to discover if the Calvinistic interpretation has any clear support.
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Hey Dr Flowers , I was completely against you very recently but it’s was my son that made me rethink all these things. It was bc him asking on how to be saved . Calvinism made it hard for me to answer that for him. It broke my heart. I knew to say confess , believe repent and etc but he also said “what if I do that and I am not the chosen ?” That broke my heart. I said to myself how can this be right?? So I decided to study it again with a fresh new clean slated perspective. I am starting to see the truth. It’s all making more sense.
Thank you for your fair videos and representing Calvinism fairly and not bashing them and accepting them as our brothers and sisters in Christ .
What commentaries and study bibles would you recommend for me to help my son more ??
This may help
th-cam.com/video/TFf6A03ZtiY/w-d-xo.htmlsi=s4rFe2KkocOOyAw-
I really appreciate David Guzik. His complete Bible commentary is free online at Enduring Word
Well said !!
When I came out of Calvinism I was able to share the simple message of the gospel with my daughter for the first time with confidence and conviction without the unnecessary baggage of Calvinism which I find very confusing.
Thank-you soteriology101 for your continued biblical content.
I don’t understand why non-Calvinists aren’t more upset at the tenets of Calvinism. I sure do appreciate Dr. Flowers! Thank you. God bless you.
I think Calvin had much truth, but he was wrong about the Trinity, Christian capability of sinning, and infant baptism, to name just three. T.U.L.I.P was and is on target.
@@bornagainbeliever1429 Hopefully they are just playing the field. It could be God would have them do so to have a balanced faith life.
Ignorance of Calvinist theology. That is why.
We have been told not to take 1Cor 1 seriously, and instead we need to accept professing believers proclaiming, “I am of Luther, I am of Calvin and I am of Arminius.” Many unbelievers have asked me, “How can I base my life on book when you christians can’t agree on what it says?”
@@ralphowen3367how do you explain the gap between Christ and Augustine. Why did those taught directly by apostles not teach any form of tulip? Did God decree that until Augustine, the early Church would believe strongly in free will?
Love ya Leighton! You are such a blessing to the body on this topic!
God bless you Leighton for having the patience to present the scripture evidence, over and over, that we were created free to choose. The truth is so obvious, so logical, so simple and consistent, that one has to be very patient to continually go over the evidence in scripture of human nature.
From Adam and Eve to the present time, human nature, created by God, has NEVER changed. And God's nature has never changed.
An omnipotent God CAN do anything. Our responsibility as Christians is to determine from scripture what God DID do, not to argue what God CAN do.
Love that last paragraph
Amen, Sheila Smith, Amen.
Amen! Thank you again, Leighton, for all the time & hard work you have invested to go through these passages of Scripture and for offering thoughtful, Scriptural insights. Passages like these can be difficult to understand without a broader context of soteriology and proper exegesis. I appreciate your patience and loving heart in studying the Scriptures. God bless!
Jesus did not come to make salvation so confusing and unobtainable. Thank God I don't need to know whether I'm a semi Pelagian or not to be saved! Thank God for simple, saving faith!
Thank you for this video. I love word studies in order to understand context better.
In a nutshell: Calvinism says " Some unbelievers were predestined to believe." .... But God says, " All believers were predestined to eternal life"
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo I agree with you. God elects to be saved those who believe.
@@gregmiell3037 Do you agree with the calvinistic system?
@@SantiagoAaronGarcia No. Calvinism is sinful because it confuses the Good News of Jesus Christ...God says believers are elected to a future salvation (eternal life) based on their faith...But Calvinism says that some unbelievers are elected to believe. That is a lie! ..NO ONE IS ELECTED TO BELIEVE.
@@gregmiell3037 exactly
Amen. So beautiful. So lovely. That's our God. Thank you, Lord.
As you mentioned around the 1:13:00 mark, some of us (myself included) enjoy the long videos. As a "theology geek" who happens to be nocturnal by nature and a guards of an empty office building at night by profession, I appreciate having a series good, long fascinating videos to help me pass the time between patrols. Thank you and please keep 'em coming!
I do as well, because I listen to these while working, so a short video is actually more frustrating, because I have to keep opening the browser and switching my videos and my time tracker sometimes takes a picture while doing so. lol
@@haachamachama7 Exactly!
I agree, the longer the video the better in my opinion lol!
I, too, like the longer videos. For those that like short videos, there's a handy button that looks like this "ll", that allows you to stop at any point you want to, and pick up later, which I also like, and use a lot.
This was super helpful. Thanks Mr. Flowers
Thanks Leighton!
Another gem for theology geeks!
The totality of Scripture constantly presents God providing "if/then" ultimatums to individuals who are culpable for their decisions, and predestination is no different in that.
But Calvinism seems to have repurposed the idea of predestination into a divine determinism soteriology that allows them to wedge in the concept of election or "the salvation lottery".
I blame Calvinists for the problems in my beautiful country South Africa. Our indigenous people have suffered terrible injustices and our precious Lord Jesus has been misrepresented. Now we are reaping the results of all their pain and hatred for being thought of as not worth God's indescribable love and sacrifice. I believe that anyone who accepts Calvin's doctrines simply think that they are better than anyone else. I don't think that God is impressed.!! Thank you for helping me understand this doctrine from hell. God bless you and your ministry.
True, and sad my friend 🧡. Prayers for your country, trusting in a blood stained cross for all of you, and us. God loves ❤️ you and everyone in the world 🌎
The way I see the difference between Calvinists and provisioning is straight forward.
Calvinists see predestination with respect to salvation as a
" prescription," while non calvinists see it as a " description," of the saved.
A predestined salvation plan is not a predestined outcome.
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo 👍
Another 2 hour Theology Geek session!!! Yes!! 🥳🤩
Without fail, every Leighton Flowers video deals a death blow to Calvinism. This time around the 8 minute mark the hammer was raised and dropped all in the same minute. "Is God bringing about his decrees to clean up his own mess." Poor Calvinist......and Leighton is just getting started. Find that rock and climb under it for at least another 75 mins.
Leighton's videos indeed deal death blows to Calvinism, which no rational, thinking person can deny. The trouble is that many Calvinists are NOT rational, thinking people, and since they are used to believing false, illogical, self-defeating teachings, they naturally resort to using false, illogical, self-defeating arguments to try to explain away the death blows Leighton deals their system again and again. The good news is that not all of them are so far gone that they can't eventually see what they were blind to before. Leighton himself is an example of a Calvinist who saw the light and left the system. Another, more recent example is TH-camr Alana L, who was recently a guest on one of Leighton's videos.
What has encouraged me with the calvinists irrationality being exposed is when an orthodox jewish rabbi, atheist , philosopher point these inconsistencies / absurdities out.
Then, all this brother /sister , in house , secondary issues jargon is not considered and the calvinist /reformed systematic and or person is confronted.
Prov 20:24 - Man’s goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
Man's good and evil goings are of the LORD?
@@Alan-hw1npYou're wrong: God is not the author of evil.
@@LindsayJackel
Define “author”.
You know for these so called Calvinist,instead of the buddy system they need to believe the scriptures only and then straighten out the buddies!!! Amen!!Great job flowers!
Honest question: Do you think deep down Dr James White knows that Calvinism is at the very least a flawed systematic? He seems like a very smart guy that has delved far too deep into Calvinism to not clearly see it’s inconsistencies and flaws.
DW: No I don't think James is going to allow himself to even entertain that thought. For the non-Calvinist - the process of him doing so would serve as an indicator that James is on his way out of Calvinism. Whereas - for the Calvinist - the process of him questioning Calvinism - would serve as an indicator that that Calvinist is not elect and is thus predestined for damnation. And that is a devastating enough of a thought for a Calvinist - as to push his brain into a state of THOUGHT BLOCKING.
@@dw6528 this is precisely why I don’t understand the logic behind Calvinist apologists. I can understand Christian apologists who are Calvinist to some extent, but to actually defend and attempt to persuade others of the Calvinism part of Christianity seems logically self defeating.
@@ChristianZangief DW: It has to do with the belief in Determinism.
Determinism - as a belief system - for both the Atheist Determinist and the Theological Determinist (aka Calvinist) is a belief system - which one cannot be logically coherent with - and still retain a sense of human normalcy.
Atheist Determinist and Theoretical physicist Sean Carrol explains
-quote
Every person (aka Determinist) in the world, no matter how anti-free-will they are, talks about people *AS-IF* they make decisions."
"Stephen Hawking
-quote
I believe Determinism is true. But I've come to realize I have to live *AS-IF* Determinism is false. (Q&A Oxford, Lady Mitchel Hall)"
"William Lane Craig
-quote
Determinists recognize that they have to act *AS-IF* they have option(S) to weigh, and can decide on what course of action to take.
"John Calvin
-quote
“Hence as to future time, because the issue of all things is hidden from us, each ought to so to apply himself to his office, *AS-IF* nothing were determined about any part.” (Concerning the eternal predestination of god)"
You see the pattern here?
The Calvinist is taught to hold Determinism as TRUE - while treating Determinism *AS-IF* it is FALSE - in order to retain a sense of human normalcy.
No one can live *AS-IF* every impulse that comes to pass within his brain - is determined by antecedent factors outside of his brain's control.
That is why Calvinists are forced to treat their own doctrine *AS-IF* it is FALSE
And that is why Calvinist language - is noted as a language of DOUBLE-SPEAK.
Yes
@@mitchellcollins7370 DW: Cool! :-]
We do a good job muddying up clear concepts and passages, don’t we?
Thank you. This helped confirm a few things for me that Ive held as arguments against Calvinism.
I love your long videos! I listen to them after you’ve made them so I can stop and start as time permits.😍
I'm not a Calvinist and have so many problems with it. You're helping me explain what I believe. However, I'm not an Arminian either, I have problems with that frame of thinking also. I'm just a bible believing Christian. I agree and disagree with both my Arminian and Calvinist friends. I'm in the middle and stand with the bible. I believe as the Holy Spirit has revealed to me. I do struggle with some verses but simply leave it to Deut 29:29 (summed up) "I have told you what you need to know the rest is mine" ~God. He will reveal to me as I go what I need to know. I still hold my stance that God wants Unity not Uniformity in the church and some things are not worth fighting over and some are. I have both A&C friends that I feel I have no doubt are saved and are Heaven bound. I've met Catholics that are the same way. Do I agree with Catholicism? No way, not at all. But there are some in that teaching that are actual Christians (reference fruit). Will I share what I know with all of these people? Yes, absolutely. But I will not shun them or push them away from Christ. Thank you for your video. Again, as I said, you're helping me to explain what I believe. I know what I believe and sometimes I can't find the words to explain it.
It was Paul's desire to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery. Ephesians 1:9. He preached Jesus Christ according to the mystery. Romans 16:25
These mysteries were hidden in God, not hidden in Scripture but hidden in God since the world began. Jesus did not teach them, Peter James and John did not teach them. They were revealed first to Paul for the Gentiles after Israel rejected their King and Messiah.
Where most theological doctrines go wrong is by ignoring these mysteries and somehow make themselves "spiritual Israel," as if Peter and James were writing to them.
God had a very specific purpose for Israel (still has this purpose for a specific chosen generation) but they fell and so salvation came to the Gentiles. Romans 11:11. Many who ignore these mysteries subscribe to replacement theology, thinking the "church" has replace Israel. But Paul also covers this in Romans 11:25 that Israel's blindness is only until this Dispensation of Grace is over. That 70th week of Daniel was interrupted by this Dispensation and will not resume until this Dispensation is over. Paul's writings are the only place to find the answers to why the Kingdom has not yet come to earth as prophecy told it would.
Study to show yourself approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Line upon line, precept upon precept, here a little and there a little.
The Holy Spirit will show you things if you are in fact studying to show yourself approved unto God. Too many Christians study to show themselves correct in their beliefs or approved unto men. But what are they "rightly dividing" between? And why are so few even acknowledging these mysteries? Colossians 2:2
@@bugsocsollie1694 Agreed. In the studying to show yourself correct there is a great danger in studying the truth right out of scripture. When I pray over these kinds of topics and study, I pray that God will correct me in where I need correcting. I don't pray to be shown how to argue or to show me proof I'm right. Knowing the truth is all you need. And relying on God for that truth is the only place to get it.
@@woodandwheelz Amen! Arminianism is just another form of Calvinism right along with dispensationalism or any other man made “ism.” Steer clear of all these false doctrines and seek God!
Arminianism is not the opposite of Calvinism … (commonly held error) and Arminius considered himself to be Reformed in his theology! There is little difference between the Prevenient grace of Arminianism and the Irresistible grace of Calvinism! The thing which connects the two is that neither is mentioned in scripture! They are both constructs of their respective theologies!
@@climatematters6632Grace which is required to "go before" salvation (= prevenient grace: grace that goes before) : Jesus said we can't come to Him, unless we are drawn by the Father. But He also said that if He was lifted up (on the cross), He would draw all men to Himself. Since all men do not come to Jesus, drawing cannot be irresistible. And I don't see a person's of the Trinity problem here. Jesus would just say that He and the Father are one. Jesus wouldn't draw anyone dishonestly, with a grace that wasn't quite enough, or a drawing that wasn't quite as effective as the Father's.
Thank you for this. Very helpful!
I love the long videos. I am so appreciate your channel.
The fortress example Leighton gives around 26:00 appears so many times in Scripture. Noah’s ark, Lot being warned to flee the destruction of Sodom, the Passover, the Bronze Serpent in the Wilderness, over and over again. Why would the Lord put so much emphasis on choice and send prophet after prophet to remind you to choose, if you don’t have the ability to choose?
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo then why use the word choose at all? If neither the elect nor the reprobate have an authentic ability to choose, why doesn’t the Bible use the word cause?
Excellent points, Chelsea! All of the New Testament epistles would become quite worthless if personal conviction, choice, repentance, etc. were not integral to our walk of faith. On the day of Pentecost, after Peter's sermon compelled them, the men of Judea and Jerusalem were cut to the heart and asked, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Ultimately, that's the result of the Gospel message: you must choose one way or another, to submit to Christ or to reject Him.
Thank you for making this subject easy to understand!
If God determines everything, what is the role of Satan within calvinism?
Excellent question. According to Determinism and Calvinism, Satan is only doing what God decrees/causes him to do. In other words, he's merely doing God's will.
I did a pretty extensive overview of Roman 9 and why it teaches that election is inclusive, redemptive and expansive which is the total opposite of what Calvinists teach. If anyone with a theological bent would like to watch and give feedback I'd be truly grateful!
I got saved in a Pentecostal church twenty seven years ago. Most of those Pentecostals were insane
I have an exceptional take on Romans 9 I've not heard anywhere else. I'd be curious to know what yours is and see what may align
@@contemplate-Matt.G a lot of the Corinthians were also a bit nutty lol
I’ll check out your channel thanks for sharing!
@@TheSanePentecostal TH-cam deleted everything I put on there years ago so there's nothing to see there
@@TheSanePentecostal I'm almost finished with a book labeled "Jacob and Esau", the inheritance
I have a very theological question. Is it a Texan thing to say "on" instead of "in". As saying, "...by divine decree, on Calvinism", instead of "in Calvinism". I've lived in only northern states and have never heard "on" used that way. Just wondering.
According to the Word, no one has an excuse for continuing to propagate false attributes to God's divine nature.
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. Rom 1:20.
How does any calvinist determine that he was appointed by God to be saved. How does he know for certain? Who told him he made the grade?
Themselves.
Hey Leighton.. I'm not sure whether u will get a chance to read this comment. I hope u do.. I came across "Method Ministries", who's an Arminian and I was hoping that u can invite him over at ur podcast.. He, too, is keen to hop on ur podcast. Hope u get to see this comment :)
I'm looking for a Provisionist/Traditionalist church in Richmond, Virginia. There are several Baptist churches here, but they are in flux with interim pastors and/or women elders. I mention this in case one of your readers is familiar with the area.
Mike Winger has videos promoting PSA and Idol Killer has some arguing against it. Both are well done and generally fair; those would be good resources to check out.
Dr Flowers, I agree 100% about predestination, how do you understand verses in the epistles where it say God has chosen the weak to shame the strong? I have difficulty with verses like these.
God often uses the weak (for a given task) to humiliate the strong (David vs Goliath), but also so the weak can′t claim credit for the work done by God. When you're weak, your dependence is total.
Where do you discuss explain Rom 9? Would love to hear your analysis of the chapter…
Dr Flowers thank you for your time to make videos. My belief aligns with your theology but here a question, in this video you mentioned that God uses our evil hearts for his own benefits, I believe that too, I choose to sin. You also mention that Judas was blinded to accomplish Calvary, yes I understand that it seems like he was already evil to begin with, so, if Judas was already evil and also blinded, once he sold Jesus, and Jesus got arrested, do you think God remove the blind fold off Judas’ eyes to see the true light of the Gospel?
Again thank you for all you do I really enjoy listening to your long videos. Also, getting your book “the potter’s promise” soon.
God bless you. ♥️🙌✝️🙌♥️
Edit: I'm not calvinist, I'm just trying to learn!
I'm still watching his videos, but I'd like to see a response to the argument "if God sees the future, He know what is gonna happen, and if it wasn't He that wrote this history... Who did???"
Who has been his councillor regarding his choosing of who is in his kingdom.
Q: what commentary could I buy that is non- calvinist???
The long ones are good for cleaning the house, turn it up, clean and learn!
I am not a Calvinist. Question: How do Calvinists know which person is one of the predestined elect? Is it because their parents are Calvinist and since one is born with Calvinist parents, you are automatically an elect? If only certain people are elect, then why should they be reaching out to the non-elect to believe in God through Jesus, knowing only the predestination elect are chosen.
Calvinists don't claim to know who is or isn't Elect. It's the blind leading the blind.
@@PETERJOHN101 thank you so much for your response.
They were preordained to believe it.
Thank you Leighton
Did God predestined the cross of Christ before the foundation of the world or before Adam sinned? Does God knows that Adam will sin against him? I’m following your channel and gaining lots from it. Thank you so much!
@soteriology101, Dr. Flowers, I am just partway into this video, where you used the fortress analogy to describe predestination.
I’m wondering if these two OT examples would be valid examples also: 1) the Israelites at the first Passover, who were behind the doorposts painted with the blood were “predestined” to be saved, but anyone outside would not be safe. And 2) Rahab’s family with her when the walls fell. Whoever was with her at that time was “predestined” to be saved.
I still can't understand why Calvinists see a God who totally predetermines what everyone He creates will ever experience and do, as more glorious than a God who doesn't. It seems like an arbitrary criterion, which I've never seen justified in any meaningful way.
(It would perhaps make some sense if everyone He created always did what He says He would rather they do . . like a certain someone we call Lord . . but that's clearly off the table, as everyone knows ; )
I'd like to add that if God only chose certain ppl for salvation then why is he so concerned with partiality. I'm not finding logic in calvinism in any points.
A Calvinist dies and finds himself at the entrance of heaven. He sees two doors. One door said, "free will", and the other door says "predestination" He goes through the door that said. "predestination". An angel appeared to him and asked what he was doing here. He explained thst he saw the sign on the door and decided to enter. The angel told him that he couldn't be here because he used his free will to choose which door he was going to enter. So he left and went through the other door that said, "free will". An angel appeared and asked him what he was doing here. He said, "I had no choice".
@@kgar5String I am saved by faith in Jesus Christ apart from the works of the law
And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,
Romans 4:5
Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. Galatians 2:16
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Ephesians 2:8-9
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians 2:21
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.
Romans 3:28
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
Galatians 3:11
And be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith-
Philippians 3:9
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
Romans 10:4
For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
Romans 3:20
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, and brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. Acts 16:29-31
Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?
Galatians 3:2-3
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.
Galatians 5:4
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: and by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Acts 13:38-39
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: 1 Corinthians 15:3-4
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Romans 1:16-17
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Romans 10:13
To Him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins through His name.” Acts 10:43
For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." Romans 10:10-11
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 5:1
And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. Galatians 3:8
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”
Romans 4:2-3
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:13-14
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. John 3:36
Notes on John 3:36
[When Jesus said, "whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life", He was likely referencing His command to repent and believe the Gospel in Mark 1:15 “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand. Repent and believe in the gospel.” Mark 1:15 (Repent=change one's mind. Mark 1:15 does not say, "Repent of your sins")]
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:14-15
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3: 14-16
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
John 6:47
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. John 3:18
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? John 11:25-26
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. John 12:46
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 John 5:13
But these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. John 20:31
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through FAITH in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; to declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which BELIEVITH in Jesus. Romans 3:23-26
Have you looked into the audience's understanding of the concept of predestination? For Acts, this would be Theophilus, for Romans, the church at Rome, for Corinthians, the church at Corinth, and for Ephesians, the church at Ephesus. The cultural context is clearly Greco-Roman. How did the Greco-Roman mind understand predestination at that time?
Dr. Flowers, I'm interested in knowing what your thoughts are on John Miley's Systematic Theology, if you've read it. I was told Miley's Systematic Theology is the best non-Calvinistic systematic theology out there.
I would just add to my prior comment. The father knows all choices that are made.
Wouldn't it be fair to say that God being omniscient would also make Him privy in advance to our coming salvation as individuals? That said and if agreed; would also mean those names are already in the Book of Life...? So though down here still on this lowly "earth" we are journeying our way to salvation unbeknowings to ourselves the outcome yet; but of course our Heavenly Father does in fact know our choice because He is all knowing...
Happy reformation day everyone!
As regards the chart @13:00, it correctly lists 1 Corinthians 2:7 as God predestined to include the Gentiles among God's people, but that is also what is predestined in Romans 8 and Ephesians 1. That is very clear if you continue reading Romans 9, 10 and 11, and Ephesians 2.
Hi Leighton,
My only issue with the question around minute 4:00:
Did God predestine the cross of Christ?
Well, if God is not bound by time, then we have to understand He isn’t bound by the concept of pre-destination. I believe that term is used by God to help us understand His pre-eminence.
What’s my point? Well first off bereshit (first word of the Bible) would indicate that Christ would be sacrificed with His hands on a cross.
However this makes it no more His INITIAL plan as opposed to His foreknowledge seeing our need for redemption and “amen-ing” it according to His will, and therefore ordering that redemption from the beginning.
I say this because otherwise God must’ve predestined our downfall (direct disobedience to Himself) in the same token as ordaining Christ as the redemptive sacrifice. I don’t think the word Carrie’s the right connotation we tend to give it (eg He decreed something beforehand) as much as it just establishes TO us that He is ever-present, everything is under His control and He saw all from the beginning.
I’m open to hearing alternative options, but biblically God cannot author evil, He cannot lie, He cannot fail, so therefore we are responsible for evil and yet He saw it, let it happen, and recovered redemption for us all from the beginning.
Thank you for your work and God bless!
🏆🏆1:24:30 Absolutely! Again, the conflict occurs from distorting what defines salvation, biblically. Salvation occurs regarding ones belief in the virgin birth, sinless life, willing sacrificial death, and resurrection of Jesus as the Christ unto their own, personal, salvation. Other matters are not necessarily consequential to salvation. As in the case of Calvinists, one can be truly saved by virtue of what they believe about Christ, even though thoroughly confused about how it happened.🤔
Would you please elaborate a bit more on what your are saying? Now sure here.
@@ShowCat1 A Calvinist position contends those who believe in Christ were effectually caused to believe in Christ and it was predestined that they would. And once God started that process it was irresistible. A non-Calvinist contends they heard the Gospel, chose to receive and believe it, and God saved them after they believed. In the end both parties are believing in Christ unto salvation. They disagree about how it came to be.
There are some on both sides who are willing to deny salvation to the other, but I don't think they should. In both cases the focus of their argument is not about 'if' they believe in Christ and are saved, it is about how it happened. It should be accepted that they both believe in Christ which is the criteria for salvation.
Only God looks into the heart, ultimately, he alone knows what is true for any individual. It is above my pay grade and I see no benefit in having much of an opinion about whether or not another person's relationship with God is sufficient if they confess belief in Christ unto salvation.
To me, the problem with Calvinism is the implication it creates about the nature of God and his creation. What a man believes about the nature and desires of the God he worships will inevitably be acted out towards his fellow man. This is why John Calvin could approve the execution of those who disagreed with his theology without regretting his actions. He believed he was doing God a favor and just saving him the time. This is not unique to Calvinism. History is replete with similar atrocities in the name of many “religions”, Christian and Pagan alike. However, all of Christ's words and actions while here on earth as recorded in the gospels are a perfect demonstration of God's true love and desire towards man. Ironically, John Calvin's assumptions are not to be found among them.
The result of the Calvinist doctrine is to ultimately impugn the true holy/loving nature of our creator. It is not the Calvinist’s intent, but they are forced to defend God's character from the claims and inevitable conclusions of their own system.... which they've been doing for 1500yrs. They always get the same predictable, logical, questions and reply with their learned/canned responses as needed... it's like a cha-cha dance.
To maintain their belief it becomes necessary that when Calvinism and Scripture collide it is scripture which must yield. In their world this is accomplished by redefining words, terms, and inventing dual, unfalsifiable, meanings to common phrases. Ultimately, they describe a God who cannot be trusted by anyone to truly be good to them... personally. It should be no surprise that most atheists describe God in the same terms Calvinism uses. They've come to believe the picture of God which Calvin paints is accurate and rightly reject it. Sadly, they throw God out with the portrait.
@@R.L.KRANESCHRADTT I believe that this passage indicates that it is likely that Calvin was not saved. After all, we know that no murderer has eternal life.
John 16:1 ¶These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
2 They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
3 And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
Not only did Calvin kill in favor of his theology, but Augustine, father of Calvinism, started the whole business of the "Christian church" killing Christians, and wrote the apologia for it, _City of God._
@@lindajohnson4204 I understand your thoughts, I usually don't feel the need to presume anyone else's eternal destiny but there is an argument to be made . I am confident that what a man believes about the nature and desires of the God he worships will inevitably be acted out towards his fellow man. This is why John Calvin could execute those who disagreed with his theology without regretting his actions. He believed he was doing God a favor and just saving him the time. This is not unique to Calvinism. History is replete with similar atrocities in the name of many “religions”, Christian and Pagan alike. However, all of Christ's words and actions while here on earth as recorded in the gospels are a perfect demonstration of God's true love and desire towards man. Ironically, John Calvin's assumptions are not to be found among them.
Question: what about passages that say God "chose", not just "predestined," such as Ephesians 1:4, the parable of the Potter and the clay, when God says "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy," etc? Biblical predestination is not in opposition to free will, but it is about the sovereignty of God in how He works in the hearts of fallen man and performs miracles for some but not others. Examples, God doesnt reveal himself as He did to Paul for everyone, and He says that had Sodom and Gomorah witnessed Jesus they would have repented, but He didnt give them that opportunity to know Him. I'm not invested in any 'camp,' I simply delight to know God better, and as a newish Christian studying the Word continuously my simple understanding of these texts leads me to lean calvinist. Any elders who can discuss?
Ephesians 1:4 says God chose us in Him to be holy and blameless in His sight.
This simply means that before the foundation of the world God chose those in Christ to be holy and blameless. It’s a spiritual blessing that believers have in Christ.
I’m not sure what your thinking when it comes to “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy” passage. Can you elaborate on what you think that means in regards to this discussion?
The faulty Calvinistic assumption is that God shows mercy arbitrarily and unconditionally.
It's God's prerogative to show mercy to whomever He wants, and He has decided that He wanted to show mercy to those who believe.
@@WoodrowKlassen7 To ephesians 1:4: God chose us in him... to be holy and blameless. For God to say that He chose means that we did not choose, otherwise this sentence would be either nonsense or irrelevant. We did not choose to be holy and blameless (we sin). I believe that if God intended to say "even as he chose that all in Christ would be holy and blameless," he would have done so. Instead, we have Romans 9:6-23.
I believe that Zachariah 7:8-12 shows how we all have free will, and used it to disobey God (the passage is to and about Israel, but I think all can agree that we share in their actions). I think God shows in his word that He still takes for himself a remnant, still pursues some with more intensity and miracles than others. If God revealed himself to every sinner as he did to Paul, there may be more who believe in him, but God is not to blame for their sinfulness as he chooses not to do so. Thoughts?
@@gk.4102 God chose Jacob instead of Esau before they were born. We with a human perspective might call this arbitrary, but that does not make it so. God chose the two southern tribes of Judah instead of the ten northern tribes of Israel, later called Samaria. One was not "better" than another from a human perspective, but that does not mean God's choice was arbitrary. We might not know the reason, but it is God's right to choose. Can this not also be true for when he says "many are called, but few are chosen?"
@@cdoerner224 _"God chose Jacob instead of Esau before they were born."_
Yes. He chose Jacob to be a blessing to everyone ( including Esau), not to the neglect of everyone.
_"Can this not also be true for when he says many are called, but few are chosen?"_
No, because the Bible tells us why. The Bible says that the guest came without a wedding garment (he wasn't clothed in the righteousness of Christ), hence wasn't allowed entrance even though he was called.
Everyone is called, but only those who met the condition were allowed Entrance. Hence the choice was conditional not arbitrary.
Thank you for your videos. one of your videos mentions all the free will passages in the bible. This is one i have thought disqualified any idea of calivnism: Though I am free of obligation to anyone, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law. 21To those without the law I became like one without the law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
Dude, a BUNCH of people in the South say "Bab-dist"! It's just a thing, don't worry about it!😁😁
He also says pharaoh like Fay-Roe lol
Could you possibly do every time in THE BIBLE that either HELL or The Lake of Fire appear ? I'd like to know the word used and possible meanings because i've heard so many conflicting opinions. Like => it's really THE GRAVE.....or THE PIT......or HADES......or ?
Christians can stubbornly hold onto a falsehood...just like the prosecuter that maintains the belief that the convicted is guilty even though DNA evidence proves he/she is not.
Pride.
Will one day they stand before God and have to give an account for this false teaching? Men are without excuse in continuing to propagate wrong teachings of God's nature.
"They have absolutely no control over how they are born or how they remain."
Sounds like the indigenous people of the Americas. They didn't receive the gospel for nearly 1500 years. Do you think the Mayan people who were sacrificing people by the hundreds of thousands can look to God on judgment day and say, "It's not fair because I didn't hear the gospel"?
"Just because God predetermines an event that is evil does not mean that He ultimately causes the evil intentions of the actors involved." - Dr Flowers.
To which I ask if an all powerful, all knowing God can predetermine an evil thing to happen, even just one, then how do you really differ from Calvinism. Surely that all powerful and all knowing God could have predetermined otherwise...
Known unto God are all His works from the foundation of the world.
This is a very good video and I appreciate it because it is a Salvation issue. I’m studying calling on the name of the Lord and in Him. To be in him do you want to get right or there’s no salvation. Being in Christ is hearing the word of God, believing the word of God, repenting, confessing, and being baptized for the remission of your sins, and staying faithful unto death..
Those are requirements to be in Christ .
Just remember that Jesus Christ himself said in Luke 13:24 and in Matthew 7:13-14, that it is very hard for a believer to get into heaven, and most are not going to make it. He is talking to believers not unbelievers. .
So do a deep study on what the biblical definition of in Christ means. And calling on the name of the Lord, because it is very clear that the ones that are calling on the name of the Lord those ones will be saved..
It seems to me the problem is this pagan idea of fatalism is applied to the Christian idea of Gods foreknowledge, Sovereignty and plan. This seems to result in this mechanistic determinism....a simplistic and false view of the universe. As with many conundrums and false dilemmas it is centered on a misuse or misunderstanding of time.
Of course, Acts 4 does not state at what point God predestined that Christ would die on the cross.
"It's really that simple." ✌️
Once Chuck died, Calvary split into topical verses verse upon verse teaching, The topical one’s just happen to be slipping into Calvinism.
Who decides whom to born when and where?????
1:29:40 Yes. Across Christianity, Calvinists are in the minority.... for certain. Of course, they are fine with that, narrow is the gate and few that find it, etc. . etc. Admittedly, it's not an exercise in democracy. It's just that they are constantly forced to defend the nature of our heavenly father from the inevitable claims of their own system.
It's payment for the tithes account to pastor that's how you work it up
So it's the OSAS Calvinism causes error in the eschatology?
OSAS is not exclusive a Calvinists idea
@@CrabTribe perhaps...but wrong no matter who carries that banner.
Is God demonstrating His justice in divine judgement good or bad?
Question: As a Provisionist how do you deal with John 6:44?
actually he has a video on this. Look up “soteriology John 6”
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo John6:44 may appear to be saying that, but you have pulled that one sentence completely out of it's context. To exegete John 6 correctly you have to read the whole passage as though it has no verses, in fact you have to read the whole Bible like that. Though it is convenient that the Bible has eventually been broken up into a verse structure for ease of finding passages, it becomes problematic because it gives people licence to lift small passages/sentences out of their surrounding context and make it mean something other than what the full passage actually means.
John 6:45 will seal the deal! THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE THE GOSPEL ARE THE ONES TO BE DRAWN
Jn 6:44 is Jesus speaking of the eleven apostles. They were the ones "given" to Jesus out from a blinded nation
@@reynaldodavid2913Jo its crystal clear in v45 who ever heard and LEARNED from the father will come to Jesus so they are drawn by means of WHOSO EVER is WILLING TO LEARNED AND HEAR the gospel
A history lesson would be great. Does history show that Calvin ran a police state and had people executed or was it the Council at Geneva. A Calvinist friend pushed back on me with this.
On that general topic, it’s not fair to judge the system solely on the founder. But in general Calvinists have been more on the side of slavery, violent “discipline” of family members, and violent punishment of “heretical” Christians, than their free-will brothers.
I can hear Calvinist Jesus now:
“Lord, forgive them Not, for you made them not capable of knowing what they do… 😅😢”
@@JasonJrake well I guess they were predetermined to do all that hmm?😉
Not that any of that was funny I just wondered if James White or anyone from the Calvinist side have ever addressed this?
@@thesimplyagapeproject6342 JW is very open about most Calvinists being not-nice-people by modern standards, and that we have to separate their theology from their personal and social maturity.
But I think it is fair to look at how a society changes when it embraces or rejects a new belief. That’s closer to fair I think.
@@JasonJrake I have always looked at it like a spiritual thingthing and that it breeds pride. But hey I have been a jerk sometimes as well. Always quick to repent and admit I got in the flesh. I do not hate anyone. But I have seen what Calvinism does to some young people who go around saying that God hates the non elect. To where typical Baptist church youth are eager to go out and share the good news of Jesus with everyone . Thats what I see.
Carnivorous and causal are pronounced kaar-ni-vr-uhs and kaa-zl. You still seem to be missing the 'r' sound in carnivorous and adding an 'sh' or 'zh' to causal. This is all true, but I'm still just playing. Everybody understands what you are saying. Since words are just meant to communicate ideas, that's all that matters.
If calvinism can't affect one's salvation, why bother to correct it and spent so much time in correcting it?
Without Lies Calvinism Dies 😅
Not everything is supposed to make sense we're supposed to believe Jesus even said more blessed is he who doesn't see and believe that's why he said walk by faith not by sight and the Bible says that just shall live by faith not to mention faith is what was accounted to Abraham as righteousness. So we're supposed to believe God by faith not because everything makes sense leave room for the unknown for Jesus said with man it's impossible With God all things are possible
Calvin sounds like he was living in WOKE land with his own predetermined definitions.
Catholicism teaches "you are saved but you need to do these works to be (stay) saved."
Calvinism teaches "it matters not what you think or do, God either saved you or He didn't, long before you were born. Either way what you think or do about Salvation is irrelevant."
Which is worse?
Jesus himself said we have to follow his Commandments (Mark 10:19) to inherit eternal life. James (Jesus's brother) said we are justified not by faith only, but by faith AND works (James 2:24). Paul said the same thing in Romans 3:31. Calvinism is Gnostic trash.
I think Catholics are guilty of perhaps legalism as to the second leg of their salvation. Doing works to Stay saved is still works by faith by grace. Not faith BY works.
@chriswest8389
No. Doing works to stay saved is works salvation. I do good works once I'm saved *because of* my Salvation, not working to keep it.
James tells us that we shall know those who are Saved by their good works. The catholic motive is all wrong, fear based instead of faith based.
I was in catholicism (and anglicanism) long enough to see the problem...
@@chrisneeds6125 let’s see here. IF, as I surmised, you think once saved only saved is the only faith based siritology, then what about Calvin’s? Their irisisitble to God BUT they don’t, by any means believe their regenerate until the second coming, if their still alive. “ Your in dude” says Jesus. Same principle when they die. Since their obviously not provisionit in outlook,it’must be doubtable nerve racking time on their part. All they can do is cross check heir fingers and hope not to burn. But then again, if there keeping it together, it could be a sign they R saved. But then the same could be said for not once saved always saved. The late great pastor David pawson wasn’t staying up at night biting his fingers. It depends on the person ultimately.
@chriswest8389
I have no time for once saved always saved or calvinism. Both dogmas fly in the face of Scripture Truth.
You may want to try breaking these videos into about 5 parts if you want to grow your audience
Yes, my thought exactly! 👏
We do. As was explained in the video 😁
@@Soteriology101
I like the longer ones myself.
Isaiah 45:4 chosen Israel, He changes not.
24:46 I have got a question: When Christians are so holy and blameless, why do they fight each other all over the internet?
Who said we are so holy and blameless of ourselves? We are holy IN Christ, and we are being conformed to His image. BEING conformed; none of us have arrived. But we fear God, in that we reverence Him: we know that He is God, and that He is a righteous judge. I suppose you think it would be really lovely if we just knuckled under when someone wants to say evil things about God, to turn as yet unsaved people away from Him, so they won't believe and be saved. Or like Scorsese's Jesuit movie says, if you are persecuted and threatened with death for believing in Jesus, the _loving_ thing to do is to no longer believe in Him. We do not believe this, because it isn't what the Lord has told us to do. In fact, honestly, it would allow the Satanists to rule the whole world in everything. They would even coerce the non-satanist atheists to conform to the satanist atheists. That's like the Nazi new agers persecuting Rudolph Steiner's new agers. You simply cannot let the most evil have the only say. That is not live at all, especially if people really do need the grace of God to be saved because the judgment is real. Jesus sent us to tell the world, NIT to rule them. He will rule them when He returns, but not until then. Then, we will have jobs to do, but we don't take over the world and force it to live according to our beliefs. I'm glad that go is requiring the 10 Commandments in schools, by the way, but it is the foundation of law and right vs wrong, even for unbelievers. It's so obvious that our society needs this., yet we've been threatened already on TV (Whoopi on The View)..life is literally full of strife, and we don't like the strife, either. But the devil and his demons gather around the truth, trying to destroy it. It is only right that we speak for the truth of God, especially His love. If we are imperfect in demonstrating His love, of course we are sorry for that. But we aren't wrong for calling a lie, a lie
I love you brother but you error in this matter. I can relate because I used to believe like this but a continual study of Gods word changed me. This very argument is in Romans ch 8 and 9. I recommend getting an Interlinear Bible, pray, fast, and go back to the drawing board of the Word of God and ask the Lord to reveal the truth of His plain word. Forget what you have been taught and what other people think, and ask God to reveal the basic truth in His word to you just because you hunger for the truth and want to know the truth no matter what anyone else thinks. There is a difference between what God wills and what God has decreed. The book of life, that have the names of the redeemed, was written before the world was created. It is not by the will of man but by the decree of the father for His purposes and His good pleasure. Mans will does not trump Gods will. God doesn’t do what we think is “fair”, but everything God does is right and just, whether we think it is fair or not.
If only you understood that the elect are predestined to come into salvation early, not exclusively, you would have no contradictions. Calvinists don't understand this either unfortunately.
The King James Bible version translators knew and understood Greek and Hebrew better than any modern day scholars. The English reading is exactly what God wants the world to have, and the content and context is sufficient to obtain sound doctrine.
What about "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated"?
I don’t understand even calling a system after a man.
GOD does predestin some things but he told us ,that he would tell us in advance that he did that .
it's called prophecy .
but for GOD to predestin all things ,
first we have to understand what all means , because Calvinists have a problem with that word too !
ALL for calvinsts doesn't mean ALL .
I believe they are so weak in their faith that they have to make excuses and at the same time comfort themselves when they can say : Well it doesn't concern me because I'm prédestiné.
and if someone goes to HELL ,well it's sad ,but they were predestined !
I find it so sad .
I struggle with knowing that they actually are proud of their elitism ..
They sound like the Pharisees,who proclaimed they had never been slaves to any man .
Witch Hunter pounds wooden stake through vampires heart.
I'm assuming Calvinist don't believe that being Calvinist makes you elect. So can you be a devout Calvinist, believing everything that it teaches, and be a reprobate?
Provisionism new? No “newer” than the teaching of Jesus. What Jesus taught, was all straight from the OT and corrected centuries of false interpretations and teachings.
The problem which still remain is that whatever God does must not be understoood by our own understanding. In many passages, we can read that God is almighty, he does whatever he will. If we do not understand how he predestined all things and will judges human beings of their guiltness, if we, by our understanding by human logic, we see contradiction, it does not in God's wisdom.
We just have to humiliate. None can come to Jesus if he is not brought by God. Many passages in the Gospel of John it is mentioned cleary. In the time of the antichrist, all the inhabitant of the earth will worship the antichrist except the elects. And the elects are elected from the foundation of the World
The very word "election" means to make choice among many things, and we cannot say all to be chosen.
It seems that God predestining some to be made into His image is the same thing as Him predestining believers to be saved.
Don’t Calvinist also assume their family and children will ultimately be one of the “elect”? I raise my children as the Bible says in the “fear and admonition of the Lord” and hope they make a choice to get saved. A Calvinist has to assume that God will call the one’s they love as well which seems to defeat “election”
Before too long, similar to Jewish boys , the knowingly reformed parents will have their newborn baptized before they’re a week old . Ridiculous reformers , on so many levels.
You are a semi-open-theist.
God predestined the cross of Christ for the salvation of the world (Acts 4:28), but He did not determine that Adam and Eve should sin through the temptation of the devil. Rather, He only permitted it. Their sin was freely chosen and they could have just as well chosen not to sin. Therefore, God's predestining the cross of Christ was His response to knowing from all eternity that Adam and Eve would choose to sin. In the interior relations of the Three Persons of the Holy Trinity before time began, the eternal One God immediately and automatically PROVIDED the sacred remedy in Christ that would take place in human history many centuries after our first parents' sin. One could say that God's divine foreknowledge of Adam and Eve freely choosing to sin subsequently but instantaneously DETERMINED that He would respond in saving love through the cross of Christ, since God in His simplicity and essence is love and cannot act contrary to His divine nature.
The follow-on question that has been speculated about over the centuries is whether if Adam and Eve did not sin, would God the Son have become Incarnate anyway and joined Himself to a human nature in the Person of Jesus Christ, without the requirement of a destiny involving His sacrificial death for man's salvation? Unanswerable in this life.
The texts that are FOUNDATIONAL to create Calvinism, require that they be read according to Calvinism. Calvinists then have to INVENT Greek to turn all the passages that say God called/loved all/world into all kinds of people.
Can you see the gnostic (secret knowledge) roots of this? You need “special knowledge from the Spirit” to know these passage need to be understood this way and the rest of the Bible needs to be subjugated to them.
I have a tough time seeing fruit in these ppl. I know alot of them