Mystery aviation tape machine
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2023
- I found a weird tape machine on ebay.
I probably should have left it there.
WARNING: This video provides no satisfaction.
MERCHANDISE
New Techmoan Merchandise is now available.
etsy.me/3zzjweo
SUBSCRIBE
th-cam.com/users/Techmoan?...
SUPPORT
This channel can be supported through Patreon
/ techmoan
******Patrons usually have early access to videos******
OUTRO MUSIC
Over Time - Vibe Tracks • Over Time - Vibe Track...
OUTRO SOUND EFFECT
ThatSFXGuy - • Six Million Dollar man...
AFFILIATED LINKS/ADVERTISING NOTICE
All links are Affiliated where possible.
When you click on links to various merchants posted here and make a purchase, this can result in me earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network & Amazon.
I am a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to AMAZON Sites (including, but not limited to Amazon US/UK/DE/ES/FR/NL/IT/CAN)
Regularly asked question
Q) Why are there comments from days ago when this video has just gone live today?
A) Patrons / techmoan usually have early access to videos. I'll show the first version of a video on Patreon and often the feedback I get results in a video going through further revisions to improve it. e.g. Fix audio issues, clarify points, add extra footage or cut extraneous things out. The video that goes live on youtube is the final version. If you want to see the videos early and before any adverts are added, you can sign up to Patreon here: / techmoan - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Quick Access Recorder (QAR).
While it’s the best known, the FDR is not the only type of recording device used in aviation. The QAR could be thought of as the non-emergency alternative to the FDR. While retrieving data from the FDR usually means the worst has happened, the QAR is specifically designed to facilitate easy and regular access to flight data for research and maintenance purposes. Its data is stored on removable media and since the QAR is not expected to survive the loss of the aircraft it isn’t physically hardened. In fact, modern aircraft often use consumer-grade technology such as Compact Flash cards and USB flash drives as storage media in their QAR.
Source: Teardown: D50761 Aircraft Quick Access Recorder from hackaday
you win today ☕
👍 this
Great find.
The fact that this says it was made for the FAA is also interesting. Between the heavy flywheels and that wild multi-pin connector at the back, this definitely looks like it was designed to be on an aircraft, but the FAA doesn't sell airplanes or airplane parts! My wild guess is that this was something designed for the FAA's small fleet of aircraft that they use for checking that radio-based navigation and landing aids are working properly. That would also line up with the very low serial number, since this was likely a bespoke product for the FAA.
100% agree.
QAR can also be used for investigation of equipment failure or crew error if those did not result in complete aircraft destruction or just randomly checked to assure quality of operations.
Because FDRs need to be extremely robust to survive almost anything, quality and quantity of information stored on them is very limited - especially in early days.
FDRs may store only a couple of last minutes in barely recognizable quality while QARs can store the entire flight's audio (and flight parameters).
Removal of FDRs usually requires some sort of disassembly by maintenance personel, and playing it back may require disassembling it by forensic specialists, while QAR media should be easily removable, replayable and archiveable.
Only Matt can make a broken tape machine and a blank cassette interesting!
Well Said !
And make you want one!
nd not merely interesting, but quite fascinating
Spoilers!
@@danieldavis2055 So the "Foreshadowing" text he put near the start of the video wasn't?
My grandfather worked in the aircraft industry in the 1950s, this is an early type of cockpit voice recorder, it records only when the mic is keyed.
That makes sense I was wondering they can't be swapping these every 30 or 60 minutes. Unlike now, recording only when keyed up would make it much more likely to record everything with the storage of the time.
That makes sense. No cockpit audio - just flight crew ICS/Radio mic audio.
I'm far from being an expert but I agree!
Hence the solenoids for activation of the recorder when the captain, F/O of Flight Engineer microphones buttons are pushed.
Even nowadays, cockpit voice recorders only capture a certain number of minutes and keep recording over and over is a loop
If this is a mono recorder with 4 tracks at 30 minutes per side, is it possible that it was capable of a total of 2 hours of continued recording?
Sounds very useful for maintenance or investigative purposes to listen to the cockpit activity in case of an emergency situation with a safe landing without removing the fireproof one. But I don't know what year did aircraft start using those as standard equipment.
Very interesting!
But on the other hand only half of the conversation with the tower would be recorded. You could not record the towers responses, if the mic/record key is only activated when the captain is talking.
@@ruurdkemeling7423 Theoretically not needed, both sides of the conversation that is. ATC has it's own recorder. Recordings are held a certain amount of time before being erased and re-recorded. If there was an issue, it could be mated with the ATC recorder's record. Probably a back-up for the pilots to prove their end of the conversation. At the time it was manufactured, 'black box recorders' were not globally required.
On the tower / GCA side of things, we had a 10 channel recorder in our setup. This was in the 1980's, so memory is not as good as it once was. As I recall though, we had 10 or 12 inch reels, 3/4ths of an inch wide, moving at half an inch per second. Both sides of all radio communications were recorded all the time. When one recorder stopped, the other started. I'm sure other setups had different equipment as most of ours was built in the '50s. We set up expeditionary airfields. It was fun when we got to do our job.
ATC = Air Traffic Control. GCA = Ground Control Approach. Radar operators talked in the pilots when the runway was not visible.
"Mystery Aviation Tape Machine" They were a great 70s prog rock band.
@rastas_4221 no, 2obveeUs was an eighties hip-hop act.
Still touring, though with no original members since 1983.
I like the second album with new bass player.
Almost as big as Sensory Overload Vinyl Carver!
@@jooei2810JML sell those.
What I like about this gent is he's straight to the point! No boring intro! no cuts! no fillers! just pure retro tech review! Besides, his nice personality ❤️
There's lots of filler but it's the best kind of filler, the kind that actually makes the whole of the video better for it
You must be new here 😂 Have you seen the puppets yet?
He's a rarity on TH-cam.
@@smokeydapot Too bad they haven't come out a lot recently.
I couldn't agree with you more! I always look forward to a techmoan video! Short or long I just enjoy watching them! Keep up the good and entertaining work!! 👍
The details suggest that this is a fairly early version of a Cockpit Voice Recorder. It's approved by the FAA (Federal Aviation Administration) which was (and still is) the Regulatory Body for CVRs in the USA, and these devices became mandatory fitting in airliners from 1967 onwards and had to be able to record 30 minutes of audio from one or more microphones in the Cockpit. Modern CVRs are of course digital (they're now referred to as DCVRs) and have to record 24 hours before they automatically over-record. The only thing missing on the device you have is any special protection from impact, fire or immersion, but the early CVRs were typically very basic.
That it was made for the FAA, I feel makes it likely it was a early CVR.
@@axelBr1 Yes, important that it was designed and made specifically for the FAA, not for an aircraft manufacturer or airline.
My thoughts exactly. “Say again” as recorded suggests so too.
I agree about the voice recorder function for the pilot. The recorder would probably only record when the radio microphone key was depressed (leading to one of the control contacts on the back of the machine), so it is possible to fit only an hour of radio talk maximum during a flight (or two hours depending on recorder heads).
The only problem with this logic is that it's not nearly hardened enough. Even the first ARL Flight Memory Unit, which was wire recording based, was very hardened in order to survive a crash. By this time it was well understood that these things needed to be hardened. I'm more inclined to believe this is a secondary recorder designed for quick access, which definitely also existed. Alternatively, it could indeed be something ground-based. Despite being seemingly overbuilt, being overbuilt is not uncommon in the aviation industry, especially in this era. Even ground-based equipment might need to be this robust, especially if it gets moved around on an airport.
When I was in the Army Reserves we were taught never to say 'repeat' on the radio in response to not hearing a radio communication, we needed to say 'say again', (a habit I maintain). The phase 'repeat' directed the artillery, including navel, to shell the co-ordinates given previously with no change again.
I know that some people have really odd looking belly buttons, but navel artillery is a new one. :P
I was in the army artillery and you could get into trouble for saying 'repeat' on a radio for anything other than requesting a repeat of the previous firing data. We weren't allowed to say 'repeat' even when I was an MP.
And "What?!" is just unprofessional. :)
MULLIGAN!!!
My favorite military word is "COMMIT", often labeled on buttons that fire missiles. I also like "Fire for effect" in artillery speak.
Could be worse...
"PULL UP! PULL UP! OH GAWD WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!"
That would explain the dent in the corner.
Could be worse...
"PULL UP! PULL UP! OH YES! FINALLY! WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!"
Hello Mat, I thought I would throw my comment in the ring in hopes it helps unravel the mystery of this recorder.
To begin with, in the 1980's and 1990's, I worked for Rockwell Internation, Collins Avionics division in Engineering in the US. I had design responsibility of the airborne communications equipment from the mid 1950's to 1980. Collins did design a CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) in 1964 for use by the airlines. It was an extremely rugged unit, made to take the shock of the aircraft crashing into the ground at high speed plus, it had to survive a one hour fire. The tape format was basically the Lear 4 track, although built around a custom transport mechanism. To maximize survivability, the CVR was mounted in the tail of the aircraft and it ran off of 28 Vdc; the power bus that goes down last as electrical systems fail.
So, getting back to your mystery unit. My best guess is this unit was one of several of the FAA's predecessors of a CVR. Not a proposed CVR but, a proxy machine (or Test Bed) used to develope industry specifications around. Functionally it was a CVR but, not built crash worthy. And yes, the connector the unit uses was an airline industry standard in the 1950's and 1960's.
Hi Bill. Did you work in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, by chance? Up on Collins road, or down on 32nd? Maybe along 1st Ave?
@@cdmccul Only for visits to the Assembly Line and Test when problems cropped up. I was based in Melbourne, Florida.
This is the channel that defines what TH-cam was made to be, thank you!
Agreed, just a shame about all the other nonsensical dross on here.
yep@@trance_trousers
@0:25 the label shows what appears to indicate 115 volts 400 Hz. Aircraft alternating current electrical systems use 400 Hz because it is easier and cheaper to manufacture that equipment. Such equipment also takes up much less space so yes, this would have been found onboard an aircraft.
400hz also made the ac transformer much lighter.. an advantage in aviation. 👍
That was the other audio reproducer and that one was for passenger announcements.
What makes the difference between belts that last 60+ years with no visible degradation & those that completely evaporate in far less time would be interesting to know.
Likely materials used. I don’t know what they used in that belt, but if it was vulcanised rubber it’d last practically forever. It’s the more modern synthetic rubbers that turn to goop over time, or harden and crack
Absolutely! I was amazed to see the belt still in one piece and functional!
Very light use
Different materials, made to a much higher standard for aviation use, and of course "everything was better back in the day"... :P
A couple years ago, I came across a big box of old RC airplane stuff that probably dated to the 80's. In there were a couple boxes of Sig brand rubber bands, in perfect condition. Within a couple months of opening the packages, and stored in my air conditioned house, they'd all deteriorated to the point that they'd snap as soon as you started to stretch them. So they lasted decades in perfect condition, and turned to jelly in the course of a couple months. I'd love to know why.
You found the holy grail. The demo tape of John Cage’s 4’33”!
Hi Matt. What you have there is a cockpit voice recorder. But it was only used for test flights and training etc
A friend of mine has a couple of these,(same unit but in a silver case).
He is a collector of old aviation equipment.
The year of manufacture is may 1961 from the serial number (55). These were manufactured in relatively small numbers from 1958. So you get the year of manufacture from there. 5 years after 58 is 61 which denotes as 5. The next 5 is the month, being may. So serial number 55. From what i was told these units were only used up till about the end of 1965. Interesting the unit you have is possibly one of the last produced as they were only manufactured until or around the end of 61/early 62 Hope this helps.
The Interweb suggests that this device was manufactured for the USAF.
This wasn't a failure. Somehow it came out as rather mysterious and intriguing.
The clue is in the customer name FAA The Federal Aviation Administration. I guess this was used on one of their flight checker aircraft that inspects airport navigation aids etc. Possibly a Convair 240 or a DC3. There may have been an audio time stamp that would be applied from another blackbox through that multi pin connector.
Very underrated comment! This piece of equipment is from the earliest days of the FAA, which was founded in 1958. If I had to guess, I‘d say it was used to document the SNR of radio communications between an FAA aircraft and the tower depending on the distance traveled and the radio frequency used.
My guess would be an early black box voice recorder to keep a record of cockpit and radio communications.
The flight engineer would swap tapes or just let it record over previous recordings.
As the aircraft it came from was probably decommissioned along with the recorder, it would have spent long periods on the ground powered up, but with no activity. That would explain why the tape is mostly blank.
I thought it was maybe an early black box voice recorder as an in case the plane went down - with at least that the tape could be recovered and played back at a later date to find out what happened.
I was going to just say that, this may be a early day black box! Nice, to know someone else thought of the same thing, since most aircraft back in those days barely had anything for much safety.
That would be my guess too. Maybe, due to the limitations of reliable tape technology at the time the “time lapse/end of tape detector” put either an audio or electronic time stamp on the tape each time it was voice activated (so a continuous recording wasn’t necessary, and short tapes could be used) and/or cued in another of these machines when the tape ran out?
It would make sense if all this was automatic - an emergency in the cockpit isn’t an ideal time to be having to swap a new tape into a machine.
I’d also guess this one was ready to be installed in an aircraft, having been tested - hence the short test messages, and mostly blank tape. Maybe it had just been serviced or refurbished, having already been in an aircraft? That would account for it not looking pristine/not being in its original packaging.
A black box with 30 minutes of recording time is pretty much useless.
Sort of -- it's a QUICK ACCESS RECORDER (sometimes referred to as a QAR). Instead of being used for emergency data logging, it was used for everyday logging of communications. So not really a "black box" type thing.
BTW - the company Penny and Giles were well known to make these devices. Later they would be mostly known for making faders for recording consoles. Interesting company.
I seem to recall seeing something similar in a DC9 when in those days you could go and have look at the cockpit mid-flight. My dad was an electrical engineer and he would often have "stuff" knocking around the house (Usually Honeywell Avionics kit). But I remember he bought something similar home in the late 60's. It's clearly a CVR. When I did flight program modules in later life we were taught there were often more than one CVR in a plane. Often there were two. One for the cockpit and in later years one for the chatter between cabin crew and in some cases passengers. I think he used to repair them at one point. I know he did a lot of aviation equipment and everything was massively over engineered due to vibration on aircraft at the time and the fact they needed to survive an impact or extreme temperature. They were robust as this one is with it's locking latch to stop the tape and door flat opening in flight. Like you said it only lasted 30 to 45 minutes, this is usually the time needed to record a incident at the time. From an incident to landing most pilots hope this is all over with 20 or so minutes! The socket on the back looks similar to a Mullard connector so I could suggest the "ring" of pins is the input voltage (Aircraft use anything from 28v-200v SP/3P plus the battery UPS). A couple of pins for remote control and the remainder used for mic pickups plus the output. Looking at this one I doubt it survive a incident of magnitude so it could be the G-CVR whilst a more heavily protected one would of being the main one for investigation post incident.
These days it's all instant and monitored from the ground and with digital "tape".
Techmoan's videos are so good, he made a blank tape seem interesting.
A non-functional aviation recorder with a pretty much blank tape yet still a fascinating and interesting video! 😀Would be really interested in what everyone thinks it is and what it was used for 🤔
If any of the motors or other parts have a frequency marked on them then that could narrow it down a bit. 400Hz would most likely be for something in the air, 50 or 60Hz would be ground-based. Of course it could also run off the standard 28V DC bus, in which case all bets are off :)
why? do they use 28 volts DC anywhere else?
Vehicle borne military radio, especially in those days.
The motor appears to be a dc type. It is a fully shielded cylindrical affair with a small diameter, typical of dc motors of the day.
@@mrxmry3264 Some high power base stations/repeaters for 2-way radios use 28 VDC, though the telco standard of -48 VDC has become more popular. 28 VDC would be used for call recording situated at a radio site because it could be powered off the same battery-backed power system that ran the equipment.
Just found some information on a similar looking machine which uses the same type of tape. It is possibly a Quick Access Recorder. A QAR is to access data for research and maintenance purposes. Even to this date they still use removable media, albeit digital today. To help date the machine I also found that Telectro Industries suspended production in 1961.
What a clickbait thumbnail. This content is in fact highly satisfying!
😂😂
Hi Mat, yesterday I was just scrolling through your videos and stumbled upon your 2022 recap video. Just wanted to wish you a good health and I really appreciate all the effort you put into these videos! I hope all is going better these days! Thanks! 😊
The CVR Cockpit voice recorder is usually 30 mins, so looks like this is an early form of a black box recorder - before requirement became FAA regulation.
But as you said, the tower also has recorded transcript as "Say again" was probably the controller asking the pilot to repeat his last word.
as an owner of a 1947 Douglas DC-6 that was once in passenger service, this type of technology is fascinating. thank you Mat for a tantalizing glimpse into some of the tech available at the time!
I imagine absolutely gargantuan expense on oil and avgas, if your DC-6 is airworthy and flies... these piston radials guzzle like the supplies and resources are infinite.
@@IgnatSolovey while there are several DC-6 aircraft still in service (many of those by Everts in Alaska), my 76 year-old DC-6 is decommissioned and no longer air worthy. it has a rich & interesting history and still worth preserving!
0:49 Big Clive might have something to say about that power lead ⚠ 😀
Looks like the sort of era that @CuriousMarc would be looking at.
my first thought upon seeing that connector was "CuriousMarc would have that pinout figured out in minutes"
I'd say its a CVR - Cockpit Voice Recorder. The original FAA standard record time for a CVR was 30 minutes, which lines up with your observation that this device can do, it was later extended so this design became obsolete.
I have the same idea.
i don't think it would survive a crash, especially if there's a fire (which was far more common back in those days). and when an aircraft cashes is exactly when you need the info on the tape.
I really don't think so. CVRs are built to withstand crashes. This thing definitely isn't.
I doubt it. That would be completely destroyed in a crash.
First thing I thought of too, but it doesn't look very robust, as it surely would need to be salvageable after a crash?
This video is more satisfying than ANY of the past few months videos that feature brand new tech. So much junk.
I'd literally watch the video if it was just Mat talking for an hour lol. He's pleasing to listen to.
That recording hasn't been played back in over 50 years. I don't think what's on it really matters just being able to hear something that was never intended to be a time capsule ending up turning into one lol is amazing. Sense the person the engineer and busines that brought it to life probably don't exist anymore. This being what's left is pretty amazing.
"Mystery Tape Machine" is my favorite genre of Techmoan video.
So they CAN make belts that don't turn to goo.. interesting
1:27 I full on cackled at smol Matt.
As Count Dankula always says, "In the business - we call this foreshadowing."
Cant believe the adhesive on the ‘This Side Up’ is still holding on, the stuff we used in the 80s used to fall off after a couple of years..
You were probably using third party Dymo replacement cartridges. Original Dymo stuff is very durable. I often see mailboxes with the names marked on it with this stuff, completely unprotected from the rain, snow and sun, and they don't fall off even after 40 years.
It was the 60's the glue was probably a mixture of Asbestos Lead and CFCs or some other highly caustic materials that worked really good then killed any one that came it contact with it. :)
Looking at the build quality standard and the pin connection interface, it’s probably an early cockpit voice recorder. That multi pin connector is used on aircraft.
I believe this is a recording device for flight tests. I am an aviation engineer, and I used a similar recorder (TEAC V-80).
I checked the FAA report, but don't have the details.😮💨
- Telectro delivered the “VOR Test Generator” to the FAA.
- The "VOR Test Generator" has a component called "Voice/Code Reproducer Assembly".
- "Voice/Code Reproducer Assembly" has delivered 136 units.
Big way to see if it was ground side or air side is the motor that drives those reels. If it is a 50Hz motor ground side equipment, which then says it was likely used for something like ATIS in the control tower, where you would have it sitting there, with an ATC recording the weather and such information onto the tape, and this then being used, with an external controller to listen for the corresponding tones on the other track, to replay this greeting identifier and local weather every 10 minutes, then stop, wait for the time interval, rewind back to the tone, stop, and play it again. Fast tape speed as you would typically have up to 5 minutes of info, updated every few hours, and thus the need to have audio that was better than the radio, and thus not degrade it. The counter would be a simple meter, showing the running time left, so that they could take the cartridge out and put in a new one, keeping the old one on the bottom of the pile, to use again next week.
The reason for almost no audio is likely they bulk erased them before use, so that the bias system would have consistent noise level, and no chance of a misaligned head leaking old audio into the playback, or it mistaking a tone as a premature stop.
If the motor is 400Hz, or a speed controlled DC motor, then likely air side, probably used to record things like local ATC for immediate playback, likely for either pilot training, or for another ATC to confirm things, running in a loop back and forth to record on VOX, and thus you can get immediate playback of messages, leaving the long record time slow tape to still function, while having a local recording for quick reference. In any case tapes were bulk erased before storage, probably for the same reason above, no interference from old tones, or bleed through from misaligned heads. The 2 recordings were probably a test done in 1966, checking if the mechanism worked, and the tape was not bulk erased after, as it was still mostly blank.
Since this is a US product with FAA on it wouldn't it likely be 60 hz instead of 50?
@@thomaswilliams2273 50Hz 60Hz so long as it is not 400Hz it is ground side equipment.
Thank you Mat for once again continuing my education, here on YT, with these great videos of yours. I appreciate your commitment to creating this awesome channel fine sir! I hope that you have an outstanding weekend. Fred
one of these days Mat will find the aircraft that goes with all his audio equipment 😂
I know you said you might potentially be dropping your output down from one video per week because of your ongoing medical situation(s), but you have no idea how much joy it brings me to see a new Techmoan video drop on a weekend.
You keep doing you, go at your own pace, but long may this channel continue 🙌🏻
Being an aircraft device, it ought to be powered by 115 volts, 400 cycles or 28 VDC. Or even both, in some things. If you could figure it out and get it working, it would certainly be better than a consumer grade machine. Bet it cost alot of money.
It's the Pilots MP3 player.
Per my memory and a couple of other TH-camrs, Telectro made a few R2R consumer units besides aircraft-grade gear. Emerson Radio Corp. bought them probably early 1960s.
Was looking to see if anyone else recognized the manufacturer.
To my knowledge, Telectro never jumped into the consumer side of the RCA cartridge tape format. Bell Sound (a division of TRW) did jump in on the consumer side.
Makes me wonder what other uses were attempted of this tape format after it failed in the consumer audio world ?
It was capable of 4 track mono record playback and did also run at 1 7/8 ips in the RCA consumer configuration.
The track layout was very similar to 1/4 track stereo on 2 sides on open reel tape.
But, imagine if this ran in 4 track mono mode and potentially at the lower speed. That would give a long
time before it erased over a previous recording. I don’t think the playback was at double normal speed in your clips. And presumably you heard all 4 tracks (if there were 4) from end to end.
Fascinating tech.
Unit Obviously belonged to the FAA at one time so, not a music machine. The plastic cassette is not fire proof so, probably not a CVR. Low serial number suggests not many were made (unless you just got lucky). You may be right that it was intended to fly (built like a tank). So that leaves one application, it would be a voice data recorder for use in experimental flights (which the FAA does a lot). Crew comments would be preserved on a format that would easily be transferred from an aircraft to be reviewed on the ground using a commercial RCA cartridge machine. Photocell determination of time remaining (rather than a simple tape counter) permitted notifying the crew of tape status on a remote control head (through that multi-pin connector).
"I Haven't got the foggest" ... Brilliiant! Love your videos (and yes, I am of you vintage age too).
I think it is an early version of a cockpit voice recorder. If it has a VOX (start/stop), the tape would be more than adequate.
Potential collab idea: get this running again! If it is aircraft equipment it'll need a weird high-frequency power supply, but the advantage of aircraft equipment is that it should be incredibly well documented (somewhere).
Or just get an old airplane. I think that would be an even better video.
That would be cool, CuriousMarc would be a great possibility to contact
That's what I thought....Google it you get nothing.
@@jxchamb So this tape recorder just needs the optional Douglas DC-8 accessory?
“Say again” is a radio voice procedure term used by the military and presumably perhaps by civil aviation as well for communications. But certainly the military.
It's like finding an old computer, turning it on and finding out the hard disk has been formatted.
At least you still got a cool piece of history as part of the deal, even if the story of it may be lost.
i love waking up on a Saturday morning and see a new techmoan it makes me so happy
Looks like an early Cockpit Voice Recorder. A device still in use today with a longer history than most realize. Most preflight checklists require a test to be done on it prior to flight. The test for most aircraft (99% of my experience was on C-130's) was to push the "CVR TEST" button on the flight deck and say a few lines. It should then playback what the microphones picked up. They may have installed a new tape in it, done a quick ops check to make sure it works, and then the component was removed or aircraft retired before it recorded anything else.
Is there any serial or model numbers on it anywhere?
Also, small fact I learned many years ago. The C-130 came from the factory with a CVR in the mid fifties. It was a magnetic wire based system that ran off aircraft power. One of the issues they had was it was recording anytime the aircraft had power, and the wire could only be recorded on once. So ground crews had to keep track of how long power was applied so they could change out the wire before it flew. This encouraged the AF and Lockheed to develop an actual tape based system (Possibly this one) that could be recorded over and easily replaced.
I'll do some digging to see if I can find anything.
It seems obvious to me that this is an early Cockpit Voice Recorder. It's heavy duty (although maybe not as much as later models), made specifically for the FAA and not a specific airline (so definitely not for background music or anything non-safety related), and the one clip of "say again" may be it in use (this probably only recorded when the mic transmission button was keyed instead of recording the cockpit chatter like later models)-maybe there was two of them and this was for the co pilot and that's all he said on the radio during the flight.
Never stop making videos like this Matt.
thank you matt! you take care of your self always! thank you for giving people a peek of tech from the past and sometimes the current times. your videos entertains me and gives a lot of info. Thank you again!
Thanks mate! Great video about yet another obscure, fascinating piece of sound equipment 😊
Looks similar to what you would find in a black box back then. This most likely if it was in a black box would be used for recording 30 minutes of audio between the pilots and ground crew so that investigators could log what occured and when which having those time indicators would be important for mapping out the series of events. If it is part of a black box its definitely one part of an airplane you never want to use.
Honestly, even a video where you come up empty is interesting just for the mystery of it.
Dang, that thing's cool! The progress meter thing is clever!
Techmoan is one of the highlights of the weekend on TH-cam for sure.
"Mystery Aviation Tape Machine" They were a great 70s prog rock band.. Techmoan's videos are so good, he made a blank tape seem interesting..
Watched all the way to the end in anticipation of hearing D.B. Cooper shouting "So long, suckers!" against the sound of a roaring wind. Nothing. What a swizz.
It's interesting that you found a document dating to 1957. I looked up the use of the FAA name (used to be called the CAA) and when that Dymo embossed label tape was introduced and they both date to 1958 at the earliest.
According to Aviation Consulting "Flight Data Recorders: A Short History", the first country to require flight data recorders (the ones to survive crashes) was Australia in 1963. The site also says the US first required them in 1965. By those dates, your machine pre-dates that. Maybe it was for recording the pilots. FDRs are designed to record the last 30 minutes of a flight.
I would include a link, but my comments if I include one.
At least you got a new blanc tape. Having seen a lot of you videos I've leared these are worth a lot of money. Either way, thanks for making this video. As always very interesting.
About a year ago I got a couple garbage bags full of old tubes (most were from the 60s, but there were some military ones from the late 40s) from and old guy that worked as an ATC. About 90% had their original boxes, most looked like military surplus boxes. I got an old tube tester and around 70% of them still worked. Most were for VHF and UHF stuff, but there were around six or seven preamp tubes that still worked. I loved testing the 0A2 tubes, that purple glow was too beautiful.
That RCA tape system was interesting. But here it seems to precede RCA's by a few years. So did RCA really invent this format? Makes me wonder. Good job once again Matt dredging up an old taping system.
It’s always cool to see another old dead technology we never knew existed.
If you could get it running somehow, it could be neat as a bit of decoration on the wall, with the case open and the various wheels facing out and spinning. It's got a nice, industrial look to it with a good variety of bits n bobs.
"I probably should have left it there", boy, do I know that feeling. I've got a very expensive one of those sitting at the bottom of my stairway right now in a giant metal box waiting for me to face reality.
Definitely a CVR (cockpit voice recorder). Modern ones record about 2 hours on a continuous loop that will stop in the case of an accident. It allows investigators to hear what was happening in the flight deck before an accident happens
*Possibly used on prototyping/testing new commercial jet aircraft. Perhaps from Boeing, Douglas, or Lockheed..Exciting to think this thing might have been sitting on one of the first 707s or DC 8 being tested way back when*
Love your channel, keep up the great work.
as many have said, this an early voice recorder that keeps a recent record of what the pilot has said over the mic (and would be installed in the cockpit). The interesting thing to me is that they went through the trouble of blanking out the cart, and then recording the test audio to make sure it was blanked. but they still missed a bit (the "say again"). interesting! i love those old early aviation Bakelite plugs too. aviation still uses some of those standards that were created in the early days!
Seems those flywheels are in constant rotation ready to be engaged for instant speed when a radio message is either received or sent. That means only radio messages are recorded without wasting tape.
Y first thoughts were that iit was an early cockpit voice recorder too. Those things were on a loop as it most accidents happen fairly quickly after failure. They were also separate to the data recorder and were kept in a sturdy housing. However I also thought that they were in yellow or orange painted housing so they would be easier to locate in the event of an accident. Having said that, if this is an early version of that then perhaps that's where the term 'black box' came from? Anyway, certainly an interesting video Matt and amazing to think thiis might have been installed on a classic 707 or BAC 1-11. What you really need is someone to watch this who has experience of dealing with early jet airliners as they might recognise it
"Thanks for watching" Thank you for making these cracking videos mate.
Thanks for this unusually interesting or interestingly unusual presentation. I was so hoping to hear something really groovy but hey, going through all the motions with you is a large part of the fun! Another fun video!
Thanks for sharing Mat!
I would imagine the tape left in the recorder wasn't the one used during it's lifetime. It's most likely been swapped out, shortly before being decommissioned, and had a, 'test', tape shoved into it. Which would explain the lack of anything recorded on it, other than the obligatory, 'test', recording. A shame there wasn't more to be had, but there you go.
It's definitely an early black box -- it records the last hour of radio communication and keeps re-recording over it continuously. Kinda like a dashcam would
Yes, that's exactly what I'm thinking too. And a literal black box.
Even early black boxes were built to survive a plane crash. This one would not survive one.
@@mrnmrn1 Yep, since seen it's a quick access recorder.
This was probably a tape recorder that recorded flight parameters of the aircraft and not sound. Tape was then used on ground for evaluation and tweaks. That's why there are so many pins ;)
impressing build quality on the mechanism! Would love to reverse engineer that pinout at least partly. Also looks like a device the curious marc channel could make sense of maybe.
It looks more like the predecessor of a Flight Voice recorder. And yes, the connector on the back has certainly been used in aviation
It would be great for other audio collectors of deleted formats to have a book guide on what machines like this is, types or reels they are and what alternative machine that can be used for playback. It is good that you tried the four track machine to get that little bit of audio. I would have gave up with the first machine playback.
Even though the tape wasn't very interesting, the story behind it is fascinating. I'm sure some aviation forum could tell you all kinds of information about this unit and what aircraft it was used in.
this Telectro thing's an enigma, there's next to no info online, although I did find some info on a Telectrosonic which also made OEM reel-to-reel recorders for Firestone, JC Penney, & Emerson...and interestingly was also located in Long Island City, NYC. It said Founded by Stanley L Rosenberg, in 1966 sold to Emerson Radio
Matt, check for any small power transformers, perhaps in a cylindrical "can" form factor. Aircraft tend to use 400 Hz AC power, at 28 or 115 volts. The higher frequency allowed for smaller and therefore lighter transformers than needed for 50 or 60 Hz.
I worked on the DC-9-80 / MD-80 Central Aural Warning System ("CAWS") units during manufacturing, which used digitized voice in ROMs, back in the late '70s and early '80s.
Dunno if anyone already said this on commments, but that might be a device used by the military, or even on commercial, you got a blank tape maybe because the ones already used, where to be archived always after bein recorded to keep them confidential
It's an early CVR (Cockpit Voice Recorder) they only have a 30min record time and then re-write even modern systems do the exact same and are used in conjuction with and FDR (Flight Data Recorder) in the case of a crash investigation.
That’s the kind of thing with lots of high-quality useful parts that I would carefully dismantle and store for a future build of something that will never happen.
I see you got yourself a Uher Report... great machines! Greetings from Germany :)
"Every time I move this thing another bolt falls off it" - I thought Mat was talking American made cars for second.
30 minutes is exactly what old pre certified flight recorders/black boxes used to keep time wise.. and on tape..Basically the tape would continually record over itself
I would agree that it’s a cockpit voice recorder. It was made for the FAA rather than an aircraft manufacturer (Pratt & Whitney make aircraft engines BTW) or airline, suggesting it is for government use.
CVRs record continuously, but the tape would be removed and kept if something happened that evidence was needed for.
My other thought was an air traffic controller log tape, but I think you’re right about that interface being an aircraft-type one.
I love those giant tapes. You could write out the entire liner notes on there if you wanted.
Short of an aircraft maintenance shop it would be very difficult to make such a unit functional since civil aircraft use a 115V/200V/400Hz/3 Phase electrical system
I know , from podcasts like black box down, that old black boxes constantly recorded and you just got the last half hour.
I'm sure it is a QAR like someone said but it's nice to see how a constant recording device like that would work.
Cockpit voice recorder? With 'Say again', sounds like a pilot talking with ATC.
Since it was made for or owned by the FAA, it would seem to be for FAA required recording in a commercial system or for FAA owned systems. All those pins make it seem like it had external control (like mic keying) so CVR is a good suggestion.