I personally wouldn't waste my time responding to negative comments because you could end up a dartboard for every nutter out there, however, lane positioning is extremely important and you dealt with it perfectly 👌 position yer bike to be safe even when parking. I find parking is worth a mention because bad parking can lead to disaster 🙃 From simple mistakes, like your bike falling over, causing £500 of damage and possibly causing an accident. Badly parked vehicles are worth a video. Filtering and the possibility of someone opening a car door. My biggest concern is turning right and sitting there positioned in the middle of the road waiting to get 🙄 smashed from behind. Quite often I'll find a safer place and double back. Positioning is very very important 👏
Being an IAM Observer in East London, we get a very diverse group of riders, from all countries and backgrounds. "Nearside" and "Offside" can be very confusing (shucks, I'm a "furriner" myself so even I occasionally get confused with this. We tend to use "1, 2, 3" for lanes on a multi-lane road/DC and "A, B, C" for for position within the lane (with A-/A+, B-/B+ etc to reflect the flexibility). The main thing to remember is that these positions are not discrete / digital, but very much analogue. As for surfaces looking "worn" is it not the micro-abrasions on the surface that give you grip? A surface may look "shiny" and "polished" but still offer you better grip than a "rough-looking" surface... Besides oil, there also grit and nails etc which get flicked off by car tyres and and up aggregating toward the center of the lane, or the middle of the road. Very thought provoking video.
There’s an infinitely variable degree of where to be ,very linked to oncoming traffic, tarmac banding, crap in the gutter, road surface, potential for ice and /. or damp . And my position is very linked to speed, if I need to be further over on a shitty looking edge then I need to be going slower and more upright. Next time I’m out I shall see how I’d describe what I’m doing to an imaginary trainee, because there’s a lot I don’t consciously think about, if you know what I mean.
Totally agree with every word. Sometimes the safest line/place on the road is a compromise. For example, when following another motorcycle I will compromise my position in trade for better vision beyond/past the motorcycle ahead.
I like much of this video particularly about 12.00.. when you talk about the amount of available grip being lost in certain positions 1 and 3 and not so in the sump position 2.. I have been saying this now for some time, decades in fact on videos and elsewhere. I am glad that you have included that reasoning. The amount of tyre debris in certain positions, about 1 and 3, is caused by what is know as fretting, where two materials are constantly being rubbed together then some particles such as rubber etc. from tyres are deposited on the roads surface and that is in particular to be around position 1 and 3 where car tyres run on the tarmac. Those areas appear to be well worn and do shine when wet and in bright sunlight so are easy to see. However, position 2, being the sump line suffers little fretting as its not run over as often by tyres and thus its not as devoid of aggressive aggregates and so it may have a better and most times a greater amount of grip. On a wet road the sump line could be the default position being the driest bit and give one better stopping ability compared to the two other positions that retain water and can remain wet for longer. . So at times, depending as said on many things the central position might be preferable to the two other positions. Gong on from that I see that many riders are advised to maybe run in the dryer lines created by the offside and nearside tyres of the cars in front of them. That water having been displaced by those vehicles tyres and although still wet being dryer than other parts of the road. As said above one of the driest areas a lot of the time is the sump line but also I would argue that if one is close enough to take advantage to running in those tyre lines of other vehicles in front of one then one is far too close and thus perhaps tailgating, remembering that on a wet road one should give twice the safe stopping distance.
Great video, as always Phil. I like the point about centre on the road where at times grip can be better the off or near side. Also re the diesel spills, often on the near of off side where the tanks are. Cheers
I'm wary of people who say " You should be here or there " on the road. My mind set is where am I safest? That includes everything, junctions, bad road surface, extending a view, clearing hazards or letting other road users see me. My road positioning is really governed by where I feel least vulnerable under all the circumstances at the time.
What is miss understood by many riders Roadcraft is not proscriptive it's adaptive it's up to you the rider to assess the situation and hopefully put yourself in the safest or best position.I have had people follow me 25m behind I wouldn't have been in that position you have to remember that 25m back can change the view or situation drastically.(25m is just an arbitrary no) I enjoy watching the channel always thought provoking
I just wanted to say thank you for all your videos! On Friday 3rd January I was successful in passing my Mod2 and that's in no small way thanks to your videos. They are invaluable and a joy to watch. Many thanks!
i think as a learner your looking for definitive answers so you pass the test, which makes position a difficult one to get to grips with, so many variables and safety which makes some positioning limited as they are advanced moves
Thanks for your comment. You are absolutely right, CBT and test standard road positions tend to be “neutral”, and it can be a difficult one to judge. The problem with an instructor being too strict on basic road positioning is that a student may not feel comfortable using their judgement and maximising their safety by moving the bike to a more “extreme” position. But for some new riders that level of decision making can be difficult when thinking about the other aspects of using an unfamiliar vehicle. So there has to be a bit of a balance. All the best
Great video again, and you have confirmed my confidence that I'm doing most of my riding correctly, as I'm new passed June 2024, but have done most courses available to me in Norfolk and hopefully be on another advanced one soon, but a I gave a cheer to you about riding into the middle position 3 if you like, as that's the part of road i use as you said has the most grip, especially in winter or wet weather or farmers mud, looking forward to your next informative video.🏍
RoadcraftNottingham did a video on positioning around a decade ago and it was was the most influential pierce of education for me starting out with just my CBT. He too was having to debunk the idea that you should avoid the middle of the lane. And in my experience I have never found it to be any worse that any other part of the road. It can be dirty or have pot holes just like any any other part of it. So I have never thought about the road in terms of discrete positions but simply that just use the whole of the lane to move around in as appropriate. That is probably because I have never had to explain to anyone what I was doing, and as you say the only value of such labels is for easy communication. But t is the strangest thing that there are riders that keep perpetuating the myth of the middle of lane being filled with debris. I can only think there must be one particularly bad road that they all just like riding.
Just noticed you are at 10.1k subscribers....excellent & well deserved...i hope more subs follow. I maybe don't always move position as much as some...but.. I have learned well from you & others I value......Thanks 👍🏍
The problem with using 1-5 is that it becomes very prescriptive. Also if using it 'live' via radio you can, if not careful, end up riding the pupil's bike via proxy. I always use 1-3 and advise Associates to be careful watching online content, to make sure they understand what numbering system is being used in a video. I've even seen some using the 1-3 system mention 4-6 for the other side of the road where there's an oncoming lane!
Thanks for your comments here. I think there is a risk in everything, especially if not explained or understood adequately. I think numbers can be used as a guide; I find in practice I don’t use them a lot these days but having a quick method to put someone in the best place is helpful. Observed rides are different to direct training as there is no ability to guide live changes, hence needing clarity when radio instructing. All the best
I treat each encounter, oncoming traffic, junctions, and so on as individual transactions. Most days each can be treated as similar and ride accordingly but on bad weather days this changes. This includes what position on my side, or like you demonstrate the off- side, it is a transaction dependant on a lot of data coming in. That said, my morning wheelie down to and into the coffee shop each morning gets the pulse motoring :-) Wishing you well and safe journeys.
Excellent, I really like avoiding using always or never. I generally, tend to prefer usually, except for when something else is better. 😀 I find the 3 positions without the numbers, easier to process , myself. Easier to use than explain. I use all 5 on different occasions as required. In defense of those who wouldn't ride there. On a least couple of occasions, when I was riding there, I nearly dropped it. Gravel can be a real issue here particularly if you venture out during or shortly after snow season. Ce la vie.
When Observing an Associate, I Always refer to road position as safely Nearside, Central, Offside as the situation and road/traffic conditions allow. To your point, IAM have moved away from numbering because of the rigidity it perhaps infers ...
During the first few days of having a 50cc scooter about 23 years ago, I used to avoid speed bumps by going near the curb. I did this for about a week until I got home with a big flathead nail sticking out of the rear tyre. Never done it since. 🤭👍😎
great video, thanks, but what shocked me is the roads state you riding, have been driving planty in europe lately and I have to say that the state of UK roads is getting shockingly bad, its almost like we stopped maintaining them 20 years ago and never bothereed since, uk got atm worst road surfaces in general in this part of the word... I wonder where all my vechicle taxes are going....
Thank you for your many very useful and essential videos and commentaries. What I would also like to see are some video advices giving rider tips which do not seem to be demonstrated such as good mirror positioning to optimise rear view safety, avoiding long lace loops on tied ankle boots, gear changing techniques / issues when wearing larger winter waterproof boots as opposed to summer footwear, pillion passenger considerations and riding technique as well as headlight adjustment etc, considerations for the wearing of cameras on helmets, the safe use of hearing protection and safe use of helmet audio / entertainment devices, the correct selection of and good care for your helmet, visor types and tinting / mirrored visor use, good glove choice and advise on ideal minimum protection garmets riders should wear especially new riders with limited purchasing power. I feel such key topics are not emphasised in a training video format. Thanks.
Thank you for your useful suggestions, I will give it some thought. A lot of that is covered in Element A of the CBT, but I expect a lot of people forget! All the best
Phil, not relevant to the topic of this video, but could I ask you to explain the advantage(s) you perceive from raising your visor at junctions (other than preventing misting up). This has never been raised with me on any advanced training courses that I have attended. Thank you
Hi, yes no problem. I don’t ever recall being taught to raise my visor at junctions. But I feel more connected and more aware. I can see more directly, especially at night and in wet conditions. I can also hear more, a sense I like to use especially when junctions have restricted ability. I also drop the side windows in the car on those wet nights where the raindrops and lights merge to cause a confusing image. Extra clarity and sound. Hope this helps, all the best.
I use 1-5 as an advanced skill, it makes so much more sense than the black-white 1-3. I also found the, mostly American now, myth about not riding in the middle of the road so confusing and wrong.
Slightly OT, but what's your view on 'headlight modulators'? My bike has a system which flashes its stop-light under heavy braking. This presumably increases the awareness of the following drivers ... so, it seems reasonable to assume that a similar benefit would accrue from a headlight modulator.
Thanks for your comment. So it seems that UK legislation and EU legislation isn’t fully aligned. Under lighting regs, only indicators and special warning lamps can flash. But EU regs allow flashing brake lights subject to certain criteria regarding frequency and under emergency conditions. They are type approved. But I cannot see an EU reg permitting automatic headlamp flashers, these are prohibited by uk lighting regs unless fitted to an emergency vehicle. So currently I would suggest that legally they are a no. All the best
@@MotorcyclePWR its bad enough seeing cars flashing lights whilst one is at a junction as that could be an encouragement to pull out. Its not its just that the oncoming car had or is going over a bump in the road, thus the light appear to be flashing? Out you go and off you go also. Taken by ambulance.
Just put this on, and if you are new to motorcycling road positioning is key to yours and other road users safely, I've been on bikes for 50 years, OK stuff happens you can't get it right all the time.
😄 I remember those days of rainbow coloured oil slick in the middle of the road. At least you could see it I suppose. Thankfully long gone now. What I’ve never understood, and there’s probably a simple answer, is why there has never been non slip material put on manholes! Cost and ignorance I guess, motorcyclists being in the minority and all that 🙄.
th-cam.com/video/d-G7sx4mwQA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=UYPWy0o8h4CC5vY_ The comment of not riding, is a good one. I rode on ice to commute to work. 2.5 hours of riding that day. But slid on ice. Only advice was about my sanity in riding in bad conditions. Appreciate your advice on what I could have done to avoid sliding. Lane had flooded and then frozen, so sheet of pure ice.
Another good video , for all riders. Anything that makes you safer on the road has got to be good.
Picked up too many punctures from the riding in the middle of the lane (or dead badger), now choose inside or outside car tyre track.
I personally wouldn't waste my time responding to negative comments because you could end up a dartboard for every nutter out there, however, lane positioning is extremely important and you dealt with it perfectly 👌 position yer bike to be safe even when parking.
I find parking is worth a mention because bad parking can lead to disaster 🙃
From simple mistakes, like your bike falling over, causing £500 of damage and possibly causing an accident.
Badly parked vehicles are worth a video.
Filtering and the possibility of someone opening a car door.
My biggest concern is turning right and sitting there positioned in the middle of the road waiting to get 🙄 smashed from behind.
Quite often I'll find a safer place and double back.
Positioning is very very important 👏
Thanks Mikerider58, I often don’t respond but sometimes it leads to some interest for others. Yes, good points made, thank you. All the best
Being an IAM Observer in East London, we get a very diverse group of riders, from all countries and backgrounds. "Nearside" and "Offside" can be very confusing (shucks, I'm a "furriner" myself so even I occasionally get confused with this. We tend to use "1, 2, 3" for lanes on a multi-lane road/DC and "A, B, C" for for position within the lane (with A-/A+, B-/B+ etc to reflect the flexibility). The main thing to remember is that these positions are not discrete / digital, but very much analogue.
As for surfaces looking "worn" is it not the micro-abrasions on the surface that give you grip? A surface may look "shiny" and "polished" but still offer you better grip than a "rough-looking" surface... Besides oil, there also grit and nails etc which get flicked off by car tyres and and up aggregating toward the center of the lane, or the middle of the road.
Very thought provoking video.
There’s an infinitely variable degree of where to be ,very linked to oncoming traffic, tarmac banding, crap in the gutter, road surface, potential for ice and /. or damp . And my position is very linked to speed, if I need to be further over on a shitty looking edge then I need to be going slower and more upright. Next time I’m out I shall see how I’d describe what I’m doing to an imaginary trainee, because there’s a lot I don’t consciously think about, if you know what I mean.
Totally agree with every word. Sometimes the safest line/place on the road is a compromise. For example, when following another motorcycle I will compromise my position in trade for better vision beyond/past the motorcycle ahead.
I like much of this video particularly about 12.00.. when you talk about the amount of available grip being lost in certain positions 1 and 3 and not so in the sump position 2.. I have been saying this now for some time, decades in fact on videos and elsewhere. I am glad that you have included that reasoning.
The amount of tyre debris in certain positions, about 1 and 3, is caused by what is know as fretting, where two materials are constantly being rubbed together then some particles such as rubber etc. from tyres are deposited on the roads surface and that is in particular to be around position 1 and 3 where car tyres run on the tarmac. Those areas appear to be well worn and do shine when wet and in bright sunlight so are easy to see.
However, position 2, being the sump line suffers little fretting as its not run over as often by tyres and thus its not as devoid of aggressive aggregates and so it may have a better and most times a greater amount of grip. On a wet road the sump line could be the default position being the driest bit and give one better stopping ability compared to the two other positions that retain water and can remain wet for longer. . So at times, depending as said on many things the central position might be preferable to the two other positions.
Gong on from that I see that many riders are advised to maybe run in the dryer lines created by the offside and nearside tyres of the cars in front of them. That water having been displaced by those vehicles tyres and although still wet being dryer than other parts of the road. As said above one of the driest areas a lot of the time is the sump line but also I would argue that if one is close enough to take advantage to running in those tyre lines of other vehicles in front of one then one is far too close and thus perhaps tailgating, remembering that on a wet road one should give twice the safe stopping distance.
Great video, as always Phil. I like the point about centre on the road where at times grip can be better the off or near side. Also re the diesel spills, often on the near of off side where the tanks are. Cheers
I'm wary of people who say " You should be here or there " on the road. My mind set is where am I safest? That includes everything, junctions, bad road surface, extending a view, clearing hazards or letting other road users see me. My road positioning is really governed by where I feel least vulnerable under all the circumstances at the time.
What is miss understood by many riders Roadcraft is not proscriptive it's adaptive it's up to you the rider to assess the situation and hopefully put yourself in the safest or best position.I have had people follow me 25m behind I wouldn't have been in that position you have to remember that 25m back can change the view or situation drastically.(25m is just an arbitrary no) I enjoy watching the channel always thought provoking
I just wanted to say thank you for all your videos! On Friday 3rd January I was successful in passing my Mod2 and that's in no small way thanks to your videos. They are invaluable and a joy to watch. Many thanks!
The acronym ‘IPSGA’ was used by my instructor when I did my blue light training 👍
i think as a learner your looking for definitive answers so you pass the test, which makes position a difficult one to get to grips with, so many variables and safety which makes some positioning limited as they are advanced moves
Thanks for your comment. You are absolutely right, CBT and test standard road positions tend to be “neutral”, and it can be a difficult one to judge. The problem with an instructor being too strict on basic road positioning is that a student may not feel comfortable using their judgement and maximising their safety by moving the bike to a more “extreme” position.
But for some new riders that level of decision making can be difficult when thinking about the other aspects of using an unfamiliar vehicle. So there has to be a bit of a balance. All the best
Great video again, and you have confirmed my confidence that I'm doing most of my riding correctly, as I'm new passed June 2024, but have done most courses available to me in Norfolk and hopefully be on another advanced one soon, but a I gave a cheer to you about riding into the middle position 3 if you like, as that's the part of road i use as you said has the most grip, especially in winter or wet weather or farmers mud, looking forward to your next informative video.🏍
Thanks Neil, glad you are progressing well post das , all the best
RoadcraftNottingham did a video on positioning around a decade ago and it was was the most influential pierce of education for me starting out with just my CBT. He too was having to debunk the idea that you should avoid the middle of the lane. And in my experience I have never found it to be any worse that any other part of the road. It can be dirty or have pot holes just like any any other part of it. So I have never thought about the road in terms of discrete positions but simply that just use the whole of the lane to move around in as appropriate. That is probably because I have never had to explain to anyone what I was doing, and as you say the only value of such labels is for easy communication. But t is the strangest thing that there are riders that keep perpetuating the myth of the middle of lane being filled with debris. I can only think there must be one particularly bad road that they all just like riding.
Just noticed you are at 10.1k subscribers....excellent & well deserved...i hope more subs follow.
I maybe don't always move position as much as some...but.. I have learned well from you & others I value......Thanks
👍🏍
Thanks AW8 , happy new year and hope it’s a good one
Superb pointers and advice for riders at any stage of their progress. 👌🏼
The problem with using 1-5 is that it becomes very prescriptive. Also if using it 'live' via radio you can, if not careful, end up riding the pupil's bike via proxy. I always use 1-3 and advise Associates to be careful watching online content, to make sure they understand what numbering system is being used in a video. I've even seen some using the 1-3 system mention 4-6 for the other side of the road where there's an oncoming lane!
Thanks for your comments here. I think there is a risk in everything, especially if not explained or understood adequately. I think numbers can be used as a guide; I find in practice I don’t use them a lot these days but having a quick method to put someone in the best place is helpful. Observed rides are different to direct training as there is no ability to guide live changes, hence needing clarity when radio instructing. All the best
another great film - thanks
I treat each encounter, oncoming traffic, junctions, and so on as individual transactions. Most days each can be treated as similar and ride accordingly but on bad weather days this changes. This includes what position on my side, or like you demonstrate the off- side, it is a transaction dependant on a lot of data coming in.
That said, my morning wheelie down to and into the coffee shop each morning gets the pulse motoring :-) Wishing you well and safe journeys.
Excellent, I really like avoiding using always or never. I generally, tend to prefer usually, except for when something else is better. 😀
I find the 3 positions without the numbers, easier to process , myself. Easier to use than explain. I use all 5 on different occasions as required.
In defense of those who wouldn't ride there. On a least couple of occasions, when I was riding there, I nearly dropped it.
Gravel can be a real issue here particularly if you venture out during or shortly after snow season.
Ce la vie.
Always good stuff in your videos, thank you. Les
Thanks
Thank you for your donation, much appreciated
When Observing an Associate, I Always refer to road position as safely Nearside, Central, Offside as the situation and road/traffic conditions allow. To your point, IAM have moved away from numbering because of the rigidity it perhaps infers ...
A great two fingers up to those who say 'you don't want to ride there'! 😊
I'm enjoying your videos sir. Passed my advanced last year. But always more to learn. Want to keep skills fade to a minimum. 😄
During the first few days of having a 50cc scooter about 23 years ago, I used to avoid speed bumps by going near the curb. I did this for about a week until I got home with a big flathead nail sticking out of the rear tyre. Never done it since. 🤭👍😎
Sadly there’s always some rubbish on the road some! All the best
great video, thanks, but what shocked me is the roads state you riding,
have been driving planty in europe lately and I have to say that the state of UK roads is getting shockingly bad, its almost like we stopped maintaining them 20 years ago and never bothereed since, uk got atm worst road surfaces in general in this part of the word... I wonder where all my vechicle taxes are going....
Thank you for your many very useful and essential videos and commentaries. What I would also like to see are some video advices giving rider tips which do not seem to be demonstrated such as good mirror positioning to optimise rear view safety, avoiding long lace loops on tied ankle boots, gear changing techniques / issues when wearing larger winter waterproof boots as opposed to summer footwear, pillion passenger considerations and riding technique as well as headlight adjustment etc, considerations for the wearing of cameras on helmets, the safe use of hearing protection and safe use of helmet audio / entertainment devices, the correct selection of and good care for your helmet, visor types and tinting / mirrored visor use, good glove choice and advise on ideal minimum protection garmets riders should wear especially new riders with limited purchasing power. I feel such key topics are not emphasised in a training video format. Thanks.
Thank you for your useful suggestions, I will give it some thought. A lot of that is covered in Element A of the CBT, but I expect a lot of people forget! All the best
Phil, not relevant to the topic of this video, but could I ask you to explain the advantage(s) you perceive from raising your visor at junctions (other than preventing misting up). This has never been raised with me on any advanced training courses that I have attended.
Thank you
Hi, yes no problem. I don’t ever recall being taught to raise my visor at junctions. But I feel more connected and more aware. I can see more directly, especially at night and in wet conditions. I can also hear more, a sense I like to use especially when junctions have restricted ability.
I also drop the side windows in the car on those wet nights where the raindrops and lights merge to cause a confusing image. Extra clarity and sound. Hope this helps, all the best.
Thanks Phil
👍
👍🏍
I use 1-5 as an advanced skill, it makes so much more sense than the black-white 1-3.
I also found the, mostly American now, myth about not riding in the middle of the road so confusing and wrong.
Always prioritise your safety; Never plan to break the law 😉
I love a little ride around Wingham / Aylesham/Nonnington 😃
(Former EKAM and Aylesham resident)
Slightly OT, but what's your view on 'headlight modulators'? My bike has a system which flashes its stop-light under heavy braking. This presumably increases the awareness of the following drivers ... so, it seems reasonable to assume that a similar benefit would accrue from a headlight modulator.
Thanks for your comment. So it seems that UK legislation and EU legislation isn’t fully aligned. Under lighting regs, only indicators and special warning lamps can flash. But EU regs allow flashing brake lights subject to certain criteria regarding frequency and under emergency conditions. They are type approved. But I cannot see an EU reg permitting automatic headlamp flashers, these are prohibited by uk lighting regs unless fitted to an emergency vehicle. So currently I would suggest that legally they are a no. All the best
Perhaps a way to look at it would be to use 1-3 for less experienced riders, to keep it simple, but then 1-5 for more advanced, post test training
@@MotorcyclePWR its bad enough seeing cars flashing lights whilst one is at a junction as that could be an encouragement to pull out. Its not its just that the oncoming car had or is going over a bump in the road, thus the light appear to be flashing? Out you go and off you go also. Taken by ambulance.
Just put this on, and if you are new to motorcycling road positioning is key to yours and other road users safely, I've been on bikes for 50 years, OK stuff happens you can't get it right all the time.
😄 I remember those days of rainbow coloured oil slick in the middle of the road. At least you could see it I suppose. Thankfully long gone now.
What I’ve never understood, and there’s probably a simple answer, is why there has never been non slip material put on manholes! Cost and ignorance I guess, motorcyclists being in the minority and all that 🙄.
Absolutely right, and why are the metal covers always exactly where you want to ride?!
There have been coloured anti skid paints available for the last 10 years or so but local authorities wont support them unfortunately.
th-cam.com/video/d-G7sx4mwQA/w-d-xo.htmlsi=UYPWy0o8h4CC5vY_
The comment of not riding, is a good one. I rode on ice to commute to work. 2.5 hours of riding that day. But slid on ice. Only advice was about my sanity in riding in bad conditions. Appreciate your advice on what I could have done to avoid sliding. Lane had flooded and then frozen, so sheet of pure ice.
What you say makes a lot of sense, but being here in the U.S.A. I can't watch you always driving on the wrong side of the road,
You have to be ready to draw your sword at any moment lol that's why we ride on the Left, much like the Japanese Samuria did :D