I have a 2-stage Kenlowe e-rad in my 109 S3 200TDi, connected to a switch, which manually allows to Override stage 1 to 2 or to off. Apart from this, there a screwed-in switch Inline the cooling Fluid system.
Apart from better engine cooling, another good thing about adding an oil cooler is the increased volume of oil which must help increase the oil life. So even a simple cooler made from a simple hollow box will help. Remember to carry original fittings with you so you can eliminate the oil cooler if it gets damaged beyond repair.
Viscous couplings are much misunderstood. The basic premise of them is to provide slip when it counts and grip when it counts. They are a type of fluid coupling. The basic versions are filled with a silicone oil, have been around since the mid 60's, and primarily they "grip" below about 2500 rpm and then "slip" at higher revolutions - all about freeing up power and reducing the roar of a fan spinning fast. There is no need for an engine fan to spin as fast as an engine can, no matter what the situation. More sophisticated versions - especially fitted to many Japanese vehicles_ incorporate a bimetallic spring to operate an internal valve so that the hotter the air passing over the radiator and hence the fan unit gets the more "grip" the fan gets . Pretty sure the Land Rover jobs don't have the bimetallic spring.
so, some of the concerns regarding the elec fan, well they are unfounded first off, I have in the past used one, on a rally car, (in addition to the stock fan on the engine) where water, mud, cold, and vibrations are all factor now your point about on a cold day the fan spinning, and making it harder for the engine to heat, well, A) select the correct thermo switch for it (if you set it up like that, BMW's are about the 90c which are great) or B) manual switch, which is what I used, and had a heap of bonus' like after a stage, when the engine was really really hot, but the car wasn't moving, you could have the fan going, cooling the engine down quicker, the one I had (this was some 15 + years ago) more than handled wading, and had the massive bonus of often being the only area that had airflow if there was a lot of thick mug (it would often clog the fin of a rad, but the fan mounted at the front had the bonus of adding a little protection, and "chopping" up some of the muck preventing it clogging the whole rad (or at least providing enough airflow to push it through before it dried) also, series 3 military, 2.6 litre, (as that is what I have just about gotten back on the road) they really didn't do too many of the 2 1/4 litre motors
Hi Jeremy. Thank you for your very comprehensive review of the video. I may have not been clean in my video in regards to the electric thermos fan, I was referring to a fan placed on the front of the radiator and these do tend to spin at will when driving down the highway even if they are not switched on. It sounds like you had quite the rally car. The electric thermos fans do, do the job though for what we have planned and have done with this vehicle I do doubt the longevity and I think it is a good option on any vehicle which is mature in age to keep it as in keeping with parts which where amiable for that model of vehicle at that point in time. The thermo fan is a very handy piece of kit I do not doubt it though if there is the option of using parts from the period to solve the issue is a more interesting way to sort out the problem. I hear what you are saying with the 2.6 ltr ex-army Land Rover, though they are quite a rare beast to come across. I am glad to hear your Land Rover is getting close to getting back on the road and best of luck with the rest of your restoration. Regards Geoff
@@seriouslyseriesaustralia thank you I understand you were talking about the fan being on the front however it's turning does not aid in airflow one bit (it would impede it slightly if anything) the air moving over the blades while on the highway, is still the same volume and speed with a fan not turned on, as it would be with no fan at all, (the blades turning are being driven by that moving air, it can not make more air than will otherwise be flowing (unless it is turned on of course) i good example would be to think of an aircraft, when the pilot turns off the engine, the props can still turn freely, but their turning doesn't create any thrust (or aid airflow)
@@royblackburn1163 not really sure what you're replying to there my point regarding the elec fan was in regards to not failing easily (also, I can tell you right now, a rally car's engine is working vastly harder than that of a 4wd in low range, going up some endless hill, or driving hours on sand, the cooling requirements of a little 1.6litre rally car (non turbo) will be almost inline with that of something like a 3,0 TDI, if not more second off, an electric fan, able to move the same volume of air, and the at the same air pressure at peak, will ALWAYS perform better, because it's not tied to what the engine is doing, it is tied only to the requirements of cooling. prime example would be, low range, lower engine rpms, higher requirement of airflow needed, the electric fan will work as needed another good example is, at a challenging point on a track, you might have driven hard, and are now stopped to do a walk of the next section, OR to help winch out someone, or countless other reasons, the electric fan will remove the excess heat quicker (which will also mean fluids will last longer, like oil) that a clutch fan AND all of that is BEFORE you account for the FACT that over all, there are less engine power losses running an elec fan, than an engine mounted fan I have a clutch fan on my landie, however if I was to ever tour in it, frankly, it would be replaced, and an electric put in, most likely at the front, as they are as robust as a clutch fan (even if the placement at the front puts it at higher risk of damage) it is easier to replace if damaged (spares found everywhere, so no day/s waiting) spare takes less room if carrying spares, because, all those little loads you can take off the engine means less will go wrong its simple
@@royblackburn1163 I mean, your point about all car R&D departments, you know, backs up what I am saying (the power to drive a fan is only a small part of it all, and the reason nearly all modern cars (and I mean ALL) have electric fans (and all modern cars also have higher amounts of heat to remove) is because they are better, more reliable full stop so yeah, why would all those R&D departments go to electric fans? (fun side, many a heavy military machine, (tanks, etc) will have either electric, or hybrid hydraulic/elec (failsafe) fans, even where the design would allow an engine fan (this being for all the reasons I listed, and the main being that the elec can will and does run at the optimum required regardless of engine speed (again, do a challenging bit of a track, and pause to walk the next part, the 4wd with the engine powered fan will NOT have dissipated anywhere near as much as the 4wd with an electric set up) also, when talking modern again, there is the other thing that doesn't apply to LR's, and that is the other systems that require airflow for cooling, being the HVAC system, so, slow rpm, high load on the cooling system, electric is king, and that is why it is used on all modern cars
If your wanting a cheap and period correct oil cooler you can weld on fins to the oil pan you might get a couple of deg drop of oil temp. If your continuing to have over heating issues try getting the radiator modded to have extra cores / extra passes through the radiator, the more passes through the radiator the more effective the cooling will be.
Great video.. such solid information. I rolled my eyes when you pulled out an Electric Fan and was about to unsubscribe! So glad you didnt go that route :)
Military models have an additional oil cooler. The oil temperature needle barely moved during last years record summer with temperatures around 40°C. But perhaps the temperature sensor is broken. 😉
Hi mrcvy They are a very handy medication though they were only fitted to some models. A good one to have in summer. Thanks for your input Regards Geoff
I have a 2-stage Kenlowe e-rad in my 109 S3 200TDi, connected to a switch, which manually allows to Override stage 1 to 2 or to off. Apart from this, there a screwed-in switch Inline the cooling Fluid system.
Very useful information Steve. Military models have a 9-leaf water pump, civil models have a 7- leaf water pump. Greetings from the Netherlands
Hi Kawasaki200z. Thank you for your comment there are many different variations, it is quite amazing. Thank for share that information.
Regards
Geoff
Great video again on an important topic.
Thanks Heiner. Glad you enjoyed it and found it of use. Kind regards, Geoff
Apart from better engine cooling, another good thing about adding an oil cooler is the increased volume of oil which must help increase the oil life. So even a simple cooler made from a simple hollow box will help. Remember to carry original fittings with you so you can eliminate the oil cooler if it gets damaged beyond repair.
Viscous couplings are much misunderstood.
The basic premise of them is to provide slip when it counts and grip when it counts.
They are a type of fluid coupling.
The basic versions are filled with a silicone oil, have been around since the mid 60's, and primarily they "grip" below about 2500 rpm and then "slip" at higher revolutions - all about freeing up power and reducing the roar of a fan spinning fast.
There is no need for an engine fan to spin as fast as an engine can, no matter what the situation.
More sophisticated versions - especially fitted to many Japanese vehicles_ incorporate a bimetallic spring to operate an internal valve so that the hotter the air passing over the radiator and hence the fan unit gets the more "grip" the fan gets .
Pretty sure the Land Rover jobs don't have the bimetallic spring.
so, some of the concerns regarding the elec fan, well they are unfounded
first off, I have in the past used one, on a rally car, (in addition to the stock fan on the engine) where water, mud, cold, and vibrations are all factor
now your point about on a cold day the fan spinning, and making it harder for the engine to heat, well, A) select the correct thermo switch for it (if you set it up like that, BMW's are about the 90c which are great) or B) manual switch, which is what I used, and had a heap of bonus' like after a stage, when the engine was really really hot, but the car wasn't moving, you could have the fan going, cooling the engine down quicker,
the one I had (this was some 15 + years ago) more than handled wading, and had the massive bonus of often being the only area that had airflow if there was a lot of thick mug (it would often clog the fin of a rad, but the fan mounted at the front had the bonus of adding a little protection, and "chopping" up some of the muck preventing it clogging the whole rad (or at least providing enough airflow to push it through before it dried)
also, series 3 military, 2.6 litre, (as that is what I have just about gotten back on the road) they really didn't do too many of the 2 1/4 litre motors
and to add to that, the oil cooler, there are a HEAP of them around
for the price you quoted, you can BUY a farm ready S3 ex mil landrover
Hi Jeremy. Thank you for your very comprehensive review of the video.
I may have not been clean in my video in regards to the electric thermos fan, I was referring to a fan placed on the front of the radiator and these do tend to spin at will when driving down the highway even if they are not switched on.
It sounds like you had quite the rally car. The electric thermos fans do, do the job though for what we have planned and have done with this vehicle I do doubt the longevity and I think it is a good option on any vehicle which is mature in age to keep it as in keeping with parts which where amiable for that model of vehicle at that point in time.
The thermo fan is a very handy piece of kit I do not doubt it though if there is the option of using parts from the period to solve the issue is a more interesting way to sort out the problem.
I hear what you are saying with the 2.6 ltr ex-army Land Rover, though they are quite a rare beast to come across.
I am glad to hear your Land Rover is getting close to getting back on the road and best of luck with the rest of your restoration.
Regards
Geoff
@@seriouslyseriesaustralia thank you
I understand you were talking about the fan being on the front
however it's turning does not aid in airflow one bit (it would impede it slightly if anything)
the air moving over the blades while on the highway, is still the same volume and speed with a fan not turned on, as it would be with no fan at all, (the blades turning are being driven by that moving air, it can not make more air than will otherwise be flowing (unless it is turned on of course)
i good example would be to think of an aircraft, when the pilot turns off the engine, the props can still turn freely, but their turning doesn't create any thrust (or aid airflow)
@@royblackburn1163 not really sure what you're replying to there
my point regarding the elec fan was in regards to not failing easily (also, I can tell you right now, a rally car's engine is working vastly harder than that of a 4wd in low range, going up some endless hill, or driving hours on sand, the cooling requirements of a little 1.6litre rally car (non turbo) will be almost inline with that of something like a 3,0 TDI, if not more
second off, an electric fan, able to move the same volume of air, and the at the same air pressure at peak, will ALWAYS perform better, because it's not tied to what the engine is doing, it is tied only to the requirements of cooling. prime example would be, low range, lower engine rpms, higher requirement of airflow needed, the electric fan will work as needed
another good example is, at a challenging point on a track, you might have driven hard, and are now stopped to do a walk of the next section, OR to help winch out someone, or countless other reasons, the electric fan will remove the excess heat quicker (which will also mean fluids will last longer, like oil) that a clutch fan
AND all of that is BEFORE you account for the FACT that over all, there are less engine power losses running an elec fan, than an engine mounted fan
I have a clutch fan on my landie, however if I was to ever tour in it, frankly, it would be replaced, and an electric put in, most likely at the front, as they are as robust as a clutch fan (even if the placement at the front puts it at higher risk of damage) it is easier to replace if damaged (spares found everywhere, so no day/s waiting) spare takes less room if carrying spares, because, all those little loads you can take off the engine means less will go wrong
its simple
@@royblackburn1163 I mean, your point about all car R&D departments, you know, backs up what I am saying
(the power to drive a fan is only a small part of it all, and the reason nearly all modern cars (and I mean ALL) have electric fans (and all modern cars also have higher amounts of heat to remove) is because they are better, more reliable full stop
so yeah, why would all those R&D departments go to electric fans? (fun side, many a heavy military machine, (tanks, etc) will have either electric, or hybrid hydraulic/elec (failsafe) fans, even where the design would allow an engine fan (this being for all the reasons I listed, and the main being that the elec can will and does run at the optimum required regardless of engine speed (again, do a challenging bit of a track, and pause to walk the next part, the 4wd with the engine powered fan will NOT have dissipated anywhere near as much as the 4wd with an electric set up)
also, when talking modern again, there is the other thing that doesn't apply to LR's, and that is the other systems that require airflow for cooling, being the HVAC system,
so, slow rpm, high load on the cooling system, electric is king, and that is why it is used on all modern cars
If your wanting a cheap and period correct oil cooler you can weld on fins to the oil pan you might get a couple of deg drop of oil temp.
If your continuing to have over heating issues try getting the radiator modded to have extra cores / extra passes through the radiator, the more passes through the radiator the more effective the cooling will be.
Great video.. such solid information. I rolled my eyes when you pulled out an Electric Fan and was about to unsubscribe! So glad you didnt go that route :)
Hi Duncan. I hope all is going well? Haha well, I am even more glad that I choose not to go with the electric fan.
Regards
Geoff
@@seriouslyseriesaustralia All good mate.. off to the Canning in the HJ47 in around 35 days! :)
Have tou tried some redline water wetter?
Not as of yet Matt, thanks for the tip.regards Geoff
Great video, fantastic information
Response: Hi Allan. Damon and I are glad you enjoyed the video.
Regards
Geoff
Difference I’m military and civilian are the timing covers. Military has 7 studs for the water pump and civi has 9
Spot on, only in the Series 2 and early 2A
Military models have an additional oil cooler. The oil temperature needle barely moved during last years record summer with temperatures around 40°C.
But perhaps the temperature sensor is broken. 😉
Hi mrcvy
They are a very handy medication though they were only fitted to some models. A good one to have in summer. Thanks for your input
Regards
Geoff
What? Go back and look at the temps....