Busbar Comparison Guide
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ส.ค. 2022
- Which Buss Bar is right for your situation? I'm comparing an inexpensive buss bar to a medium priced buss bar.
I'll be using this buss bar in a stack of batteries in a future video. The stack of batteries has a 400 Amp continuous rating. I need a buss bar that can handle that without getting hot.
Videos:
Jakiper Part 2, Server Rack style 48V LiFePo4 battery bank: • Battery Banks - To Dai...
Amazon Affiliate Links:
Pike Industries 400A Busbar Red: amzn.to/3JN7NN7
Pike Industries 400A Busbar Black: amzn.to/3zLuSv2
Cheap Busbar kit (red and black): amzn.to/3zKwDIZ
“As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.”
Disclaimer:
My videos are in no way intended to be instructional "how-to" lessons. I am simply documenting my project for informational purposes. Property damage, personal injury, or death may result, even when following manufacturer's instructions. I cannot be held liable for such damage or injury. It is YOUR OBLIGATION to ensure that you are complying with any local and federal laws as well as code and permit requirements.
David Poz, LLC - บันเทิง
having just had a melty busbar experience, I would caution against the busbars that have the bolts that pass through and pull down against the plastic. If the busbar gets warm because either overloaded or loose - the plastic gets soft, which means the bolts are now looser and therefore get hotter until it’s glowing or open circuit. I replaced it with a 400A solid copper bar which is used as a earth bar in large three phase electric panels - no plastic at all and all fixings are metal against metal. And are far cheaper - although you do need to make your own shrouds for them - i used large trunking
Excellent suggestion Eliot, thanks mate. I'm going your way!
Exactly what I thought when I saw it. Unless there is a metal insert in the plastic, I wouldn't trust it.
Never would have seen it coming - thank you.
@eliotmansfield do you have a link to what you used? How’s it holding up?
Sorry you had a melty experience I hope everything is okay!
@1:45 he suggests using them for only low amperage applications
Loved this comparison... I haven't done a build yet... but I am planning one soon. THANKS for everything you share here.
I made my own busbars using copper stock. Drilled and tapped the holes with a 30 inch long bar that's half inch thick and 1.5 inches wide. Presently have 4 inverters and 6 280ah battery banks. Have enough holes to expand in the future
Thanks for making points about safety. There is too much weight given to cost while ignoring technical reality. The NEC, UL, inspectors, etc. exist to help keep dangerous activities safe. The amperage of our systems can cook an elephant. If the Jakipers are similar to the EG4 then they should run, nominally, around 30 A per battery maximum. A server rack of 6 is well regulated at the 200A level. Naturally, the peaks can be quite a bit more. We should all know exactly what we are shopping for. Based on what I run, I use the 600A Victrons. Yep, they cost serious coin, but there is no detectable warmth. Love your videos.
Wow this video helped me out tremendously. I'm building a new 6 battery system and I was about to use that exact cheap busbar. I guess I should have done more research. Thank you so much!
Thank you David for taking the time to show us the difference between a good bus bar and a cheap rinky dink bus bar.
Rick Fort Worth Texas
Mr. Poz, as usual, thank you for sharing the information and breaking it down. I'm building my 1st system (EG4 48v 15kWh w/6500 HF inverter). I have to trust EG4 knows what they're doing with thier equipment but the bits in between.... the fuses, breakers, cables and BUSBARS, can make or break the system (and possibly the structure its in). Lets just say, I'm not overly confident about THAT important piece which is being left to me. I really appreciate having someone to observe that is doing it for real and living (or not) with their consequences.
I'm on Facebook as davidpozenergy if you want to discuss in more detail
Thanks for the comments and explanation about bus bars
The thicker one looks like the better BB. Nice review. Thanks for sharing
Thank you for sharing, I love watching your videos, helpful to understand about solar an batteries
Depending on the type of brass, the conductivity is 25-50% that of copper at the same cross section. Bronze is not bad, you just need about 4 times the cross section of copper for the ensure the same conductivity. Besides having a much smaller cross section, the cheaper brass bar you got also has a number of extra holes drilled in it which further reduces the cross sectional area between the connection points.
I agree with you.
Great video as usual
Just got some SUPER cheapo bus bars from amazon for my electric zero turn. Works. Would definitely go big on ones for a stationary system.
Great stuff!
Thank you for confirming what just recently found out on my 6000w car audio system. Not only did the nut strip out but it's reducing the amount of amps my system can't pull from the Lithium and altinator.
You're definitely amazing David
cheers for sharing your knowledge
Great Video
I did! Thx for doing this video !
Haven't watched your videos in a while, but came to this video and as soon as I saw you, I was like, "Wait... Al Borland from Home Improvement?" lol
I just went with the victron lynx power in, best busbar system I've seen
Thanks for providign a link to the cheap ones. I was freaked out because your cheap ones look exactly like my bus bars but they are a different brand and mine say copper.
Wow you look way different keep up the good work
I personally use the 250amp blue sea systems busbars. I'll have to consider those Pike industry ones if/when I need to upsize to 400amp.
I prefer Blue Sea as well. Del City Wire has a 1000amp rated one and the price matches.
Thanks David
hours of actual use ?measured resistance?am reviewing your vlog pist,am not a long term viewer just stumbled on channel, you get one ⭐️
Thanx for what you do patriot
Great video as always! I don't normally comment on your vids but just wanted to say I feel bad for you having to read comments about your beard allll the time, even still now. I know how it feels having boring repetitive comments on your videos! at least it's good for the algos! Videos are great, keep it up =)
Thanks for commenting on my video. I appreciate all comments, but enjoy the ones on the video topic much more than my appearance.
Good comparison David. You should compare these to the Victron Lynx and explain the differences 🙂
Am I right in thinking the plastic on the Pike Industries bus bar is sandwiched between the bolt head and the copper bus bar?
I bought the 250amp bus bar kit and ordered a solid copper flat bar to swap out the brass. Even though it’s only for ham radio equipment which is high amperage for short durations the 30 bucks in material seems like a good investment.
I AGREE, GET A SERIOUS SET.
I have stripped the post right out of the cheaper type before just trying to snug the nut down! If I kept going it would have pulled the post right out of the backplate.
Hallo!I would like to ask what is the purpose of insulators found in equipotential bars used especially in substations. Thanks a lot.
Do you think you could land 6 eg4 batteries on one of the red and one black?Having 2 terminals on each lug and the last lug leading to inverter
Just recently got a bus bar for my off grid I have very low power devices that are connected along with solar panels and my question is first I have 1558H battery and I wanted to extend them the time with some free batteries that I’m able to get that are small 88H batteries. I connected them all to the bus bar then it connects to my controller and of course the solar goes to the controller as well and then charges hopefully all the batteries. I’ve read a bunch of things, but I am not sure if it is making things worse because they’re two different size batteries both 12 V or ,maybe if I did a busbar with the small ones and Matt made them close to the 55 8 inch and then connected the big one with the small one on it separate bar bus hat do you think?
David - They have ground bus bars on amazon that are pure copper. They have stainless hardware and standoff's. The can accommodate 300-400 amps if needed.
Yes, those are great. I've used some in the past and even have a video where a friend used a set in his build: th-cam.com/video/xUiVYlP9FHk/w-d-xo.html
DOH! I bought those cheap ones. Thanks for making this video. I just have a few days left to return them.
They are fine if you are keeping your Amps low.
@@DavidPozEnergy I have 4x LifePower4 100ah 48v. So it’s similar to this setup. Where is a goo place to get copper bar?
I find Ebay to be the easiest source. Try searching for "0.25x1 copper bar"
@DavidPoz, Yes I like the more Xpensive BussBar, better choice for protection, of your family too!!! Great content and I will make note of the BussBar*** As my WIfe and I are going OFF-grid soon when we build !!! And we to are going to start a TH-cam channel to take everyone on our journey to share with others!!! I have been a fan of your video's David and Thank you!!! As always Liked#613 and subscribed!!!
That's awesome you are going off grid. Please let me know when you start posting, I love watching channels of people making the move.
@@DavidPozEnergy David may I add you to my list when we start??? In the beginning with marking out the lay of the land and plotting out the house sight, ground layout for the Solar Arrive!!! Stuff like that, it might boring for some!!! Ha ha ha!!!
Excellent video. I had to "rework" a companies stock 32" long copper busbar (both NEG and POS busbars) that came with their server rack battery system. They have those rivnut "inserts" embedded (machine pressed) into the busbars for battery cable installation. (?) The battery lugs don't seat FLAT against the busbar and/or there is a gap where the busbar is drilled to wide leaves a air gap where the rivnut is inserted. Fix action: I am NOT using those copper busbar rivnut screw-in inserts at all. All I did was drill out new holes and used Grade 8 hardened bolts, Nylock nuts, hardened flat washers...all my battery cable lugs seat FLAT against the busbar now. You can torque those hardened bolts down hard. Have you ever seen busbars with those rivnut inserts? Battery cable eyelet lug ends need to attach FLATLY to the busbar and be tight. Copper or tinned copper. Like you said, the 1/4" by 1" copper. Thanks for your video. Safety is #1 and with these high amp server rack battery systems, not having solid connections to the busbars is asking for trouble.
Hi Chris, I watched your video. I think you came up with the best solution to that issue. I also have a server rack battery from the same brand (but older than yours). Mine came with clinching nuts on the back-side like these: amzn.to/3yadcJg And I can torque them down better than a rivnut. I have no clue why the manufacturer switched to rivnuts, because it doesn't look like it would save any money in the building of the cabinet. There have been at least 4 versions of this cabinet over the past 2 years.
You may also like seeing some of my modifications: th-cam.com/video/A0bqClj5urg/w-d-xo.html
Elliot where are you getting your copper bar ??
Please share
Don't tighten the bolt with plastic in between. The plastic will crush and you will have a loose connection. Place a nut against the plastic and tighten the nut. Place the wires on top of the nut and use another nut to create a tight connection
still have the same problem , heat will loosen them on the bar.
Your new look is so handsome!
The cheap ones are not bad if you are building a small system like a cabin but the main concern is that you don't want to go much over a 5000-6000 watt 48V system without using something more robust. The thing that really sucks is that they charge so much for some of these units and you are not getting a decent deal compared to buying heavy duty standoffs and nicel plated copper bar in the first place.
HOWdy D-P,
BusBar selection
I was disappointed that the +positive+ / -negative- 5AWG Battery CABLES
that arrived with my EG4 (48V/100AH) LL Batteries
only had 1/4" holes in them vs 5/16" holes that my BUS BARS require
Drilling them OUT to 5/16" seems a little THIN on the copper terminal lugs
Thanks for your REVIEW
COOP
...
heya Oh wouw do we have a new david lol. great comperision. I think it's better to make your own busbars
Hi, How can I send you a 12V200ah lifepo4 battery for testing? Our batteries have low temperature cut-off protection.
I have 2 LIFEPO for batteries I am going to hook them up to busbars does it matter where I hook my Phoenix 1200 W Victron inverter to the bus bars? is there a special way I have to hook the inverter to the bus bars because I’m using two batteries?
Curious what your experience has been with the signature solar rack bus bars? They seem under sized for 400 amps or so you could push through them.
My experience with the Signature solar busbars is they handle the Amps I can move fine. I've never detected any warmth on the Busbars with my fingers. But, my maximum Amps is 220A, so I'm not pushing it to the limit of the copper bar.
Thanks for the feedback David!
Can I get a shock touching the negative busbar if I have a charger charging the battery at 30v?
I'm not sure that bolting through (and therefore compressing) the plastic base is desirable. It seems that the plastic might compress over time, thereby reducing the clamping force on the lead.
Plus I like the idea of the back of the bolt touching the metal to add extra conductivity path. It probably makes no difference but when the bolt isn't screwed into the metal bar I don't think the contact is as perfect and so it's only the connector pushing down on the bar that's in contact, the bolt isn't helping as much as it could.
what is the long box below your inverters with wiring in it called ? Where did you get it?
Officially called a "wireway", but sometimes nicknamed a "wire trough" or "wire gutter". I bought it at my local electrical supply store. Go to Google maps and search "electrical supply near me"
FYI: You have a typo: the first link in your description (Pike 400A Busbar Red) actually goes to the cheap kit. The other two appear to be correct.
Thanks for letting me know. I corrected it.
Magnificent beard
I need a busbar to create two negative cables to connect two batteries to a Victron ip22 charger that can charge multiple batteries but only has one negative terminal Can I go with the inexpensive busbar?
HI DAVE.. YOU MAY HAVE MISSED OUT.?? on chep one power is going though nut.bolt . bolt head and bar..? but on the other one it dose not go though the head of the bolt. its insulated .. so ll power must go though the frount bar. ?? .. so contacked area is much less.. tone uk
Material is one side. Cross section and contact surface other parameters to check. Corrosion is a big problem caused by current. All together makes a bus bar.
Hi David my name is chris and i would like to ask a ? about the input ac voltage on the EG4 6500 can it charge the EG4 batters and how do you do that
Hi C McD, Sorry, but I have never personally tested the EG4 6500 inverter. I try to limit my comments to only things I've personally used/tested.
@@DavidPozEnergy thank you for your time i love watching your video's
In terms of construction, ignoring the bussbar cross-section, the cheaper buss actually has better designed contact area from the bolts to the bar with the head of the bolt directly against the underside of the bar and washer/terminal/nut all being compressed against the upper side of the bar.
As others have pointed out, the Pike Industries construction has the plastic cover between the head of the bolt and the underside of the bar giving less clamping force for the electrical connection, and a possibility of a problem with heat and compression loosening the electrical connection over time due to plastic flow or deformation.
Plus it still relies on the plastic to hold the bolts in place.
So they both essentially rely on the strength of the plastic to hold it together.
One with screws into plastic, the other by plastic moulded/welded to hold the bolts and bar in place.
What if the cheap bar was copper? What would it be capable of?
The issue I faced was advertisements listing a continuous current rating only. I found one type stating a per-post maximum continuous rating. (In addition to the total continuous rating)
If I want to run an experimental setup with 4x 24v batteries, driving a 2500w/5000w inverter, I'll need a possible 100A continuous/200A peak on a single stud feeding the inverter.
That bus bar advertised with per-post rating was claimed 350A cont. with 65A per-post. I could hook my 4 battery parallel bank up and the bus bar continuous should be fine, the per-post continuous should be fine per battery, but the post feeding the inverter could be a bottleneck.
I am of course discussing using the bars solely for paralleling the batteries, from which a single output feeds a load, or maybe a load bus bar.
If the cheap busbar were copper, then probably 150A based on the dimensions. In the next video I'll be hooking this up to my Jakiper battery rack, so hopefully the next video will help bring this all to light better.
Yeah in the grand scheme of these sorts of systems getting good quality bus bars/fuses etc really doesn't cost much more money than buying the cheap stuff. It makes a huge difference though. I've seen plenty of systems where people spend $1,500 on batteries and then run the entire thing through a $10 fuse.
I have a question about your battery stack. Since they are in series aren't the amps limited to a single battery's rating? Perhaps I am missing something?
The batteries are in parallel. I understand the confusion because they are daisy chained together.
@@DavidPozEnergy - Thanks - I should have studied the wiring a little closer before commenting!
David, I'm building a 24v solar system. I'm starting out with 2 12v lifep4 batteries in parallel to get the 24v battery. The question i have is this. If i start out with 230 ah lifepo4 cells and i want to up date my battery bank to get more ah, do i have to use the same ah 230 ah batteries or can i add 200 ah or 280 ah.
You can parallel different capacity batteries together. However, you have to make sure that your new batteries can handle the Amps. Always use a BMS and over-current protection (fuse or breaker) on each battery.
Two 12v batteries in parallel will still be 12V, but the amps per hour would be the sum of the individual amps per hour. To get 24V using 2 12V batteries, you would need to put them in series.
@@DavidPozEnergy thanks you, I do use a BMS and a 150a fuse/. Thank you again. Keep up the great content, I don’t think there was 1 video of yours I didn’t learn something! Way easier than college LOL
Nice one… and which one from Amazon would you recommend for 280A continuos and 400A peak? What about Victron Lynx PowerIn? 😊
Nothing wrong with the Victron line of products. In this particular case I didn't think it fit well with the Jakiper rack, where I am installing the busbar.
@@DavidPozEnergy It has proper cover, so maybe the sufficient placement would be on the top of rack. Or at the top of the rack on a few of Units on some backing plate matching 19" rack pitch? It supports both leads from batteries and on the main plus busbar the Victron SmartShunt could be mounted, main fuse and disconnect switch. Then second PowerIn could be connected to provide interface for multiple MPPTs/invertors :-) or am I wrong?
Not wrong. If you mount the lynx power in on top of the rack, then there will be a lot of extra wires to ensure your wires between busbar and batteries are equal length. Using the Lynx shunt doesn't have a disconnect built in, and the main fuse holder is built for a CNN fuse.
@@DavidPozEnergy Better placement would in the middle of the rack, ten it would be possible to have better cable management. But their racks are made just for batteries, am I correct? And therefore PowerIn places outside of battery rack would be the best solution - in extra case for instance...
I have several bussbars very similar to the cheapo you use, I need to verify the material it’s made of, I am aghast if they are brass… I gotta go rebuild my setup… dang it!
It's a fun thing to check for.
Thanks! Like 1.2K+
I wanted an actual use comparison and showing how much temp rise each bar had.
Note on the "Cheap Ones" as well.
The Nuts will "spin out" and mangle the plastic when tightening and the threads actually gall. Once they are like that taking them apart is a freaking nightmare. AVOID THEM ! They have "Warmed sifnifificantly @ 100A through and that IS spooky, to say the least.
THANK YOU DAVID !
You may have Just Saved some Lives !
PS, If you anted to prove a point, setup a test rig and push 400A + through the cheapy while filming from a safe distance. Eeeeeek Factor ! ;-) (says the guy with 1200A of Batt.)
Thanks for your comment. I heard the heads can spin, but haven't seen it myself.
@@DavidPozEnergy For kicks & Giggles, you've got enough Oooomph sitting there to Vaporize one of the those cheapo's and really show what can happen... Will safetyy precautions of course. Nothing drives the point home than Seeing it... preferably not 1st hand & in your face ;-)
😅
Which is more robust & recommended for 48 V system… 5/16 or 3/8???
Thanks (NewBe)
It's not really that simple. 3/8 is larger than 5/16. But the size of the stud isn't the whole story. You have to look at contact area between lug and busbar. How many Amps are you moving, and the copper cross-section.
I went for a cheap DIY copper solution seeing as the battery was DIY too.
I want to purchase this bus bar 01 set in India please share link if any have
The link to the 400 amp busbar does not appear to work red or black it goes right to 2:50 amp
Thanks for letting me know. I corrected it.
Well, since all the comments so far seem to focus on your beard, I'll add my 2c: That's a damn good beard! I only wish I could grow one like that, but my cheeks won't comply. lol
Forgive my ignorance. Am I missing something? I thought the amperage rating of a copper busbar is 1.2 x width in mm x thickness in mm. That would make these busbars rated at 194 amps.
Bluesea buss bars for the win.
It’s pretty clear you are knocking Victron lynx stating it’s REALLY expensive option. But at 155 it’s $5 CHEAPER than these pike industry bars with stainless hardware plus you have the option to fuse right at the bus bar and you have total coverage in a neat package.
Not at all. I life Victron products.
Should go by the bus short circuit rating.
David ive seen you male copper bars in the past ....
Your not getting soft on us 😆
LOL, not soft. In past videos when I made busbars, I usually receive some comment asking what to do when they don't own tools like I do. So I try to mix up the videos and make sure everyone can find an answer. I prefer making my own because I can make the exact number of connections I need.
Your links say 400 amp bus bar but the rating on Amazon says 250amp.
Thanks for letting me know. I corrected it.
Nice overview. One thing that is overlooked is having the mounting bolts also hold the plastic can become an issue. If the bolts are loose or randomly get heated. The plastic will deform making the connection even worse leading to more heating or even arcing. Having separate fasteners are best to hold the bus bar to the mount.
Maybe a piece of aluminium flat bar would be a budget option?
Yes. On some of my first builds I used some 1/4" thick aluminum and worked great.
Having plastic in a torqued connection assembly is a really bad idea. Bad things happen when 100-400 amp connections become loose. I would pass on both buss bars.
Am i the only one who want to see the plastic melt at the rated amperage???? ;-)
Listern I like your channel BUT I think your knit picking I think it all goes about the amount of power your useing 400 amps is a lot more than 100 amps so why would I buy heavy duty over light duty .....regards
Where the high current loads at though?
Next video
ATTENTION NOTE: These come with 5/16 Bolts ! 3/8's are NOT offered.
👍
$20.00 extra for stainless? Their price difference for stainless is maybe 50 cents. I've got probably 5000+ pieces of stainless hardware in my shop.
Pike stocks the next day 🚀
Hairpin
You say the more expensive one is plastic. While it might be it might be a harder resin or a fiber glass reinforced piece also, tool plastic. So all the comments worried about the “plastic “ piece could be for naught as some of these “plastic “ materials are stiffer than copper. My power tools take drops that would dent copper and show no damage. The cheaper buss bar looked like the lugs sat in cheap plastic
And if you have ever wired lugs you know to snug things up. They probably even give a specific torque.
That said. You buy a cheap one be very careful to not over tighten
Don't get confused about the meaning of the word "rated". It does not mean "suitable for use at", it merely means how the manufacturer tested it and that is done by measuring the temperature rise. A larger rise is easier to measure with less error than a small one. Saying that a conductor is "rated" at 200A is meaningless without a qualifying temperature rise. There will always be a temperature rise because a conductor has a non-zero resistance and the power dissipated is always the current squared multiplied by the resistance. The question is what temperature rise will be acceptable for the application?
Don't get confused by comparing different resistivities. First determine the maximum resistance acceptable for a given power loss and then work out the size of a metal bar that gives that resistance. A metal with a higher resistivity will need to be larger. There are other factors to consider like weight, price, strength, machinability and corrosion, both atmospheric and electrolytic.
Thank you for such a great comment. I'll try to work through some further calculations next time.
I make my own out of copper flat bar
I think the video should have been titled ,,,,,useing the right bus bar , the cheep one as you call it would be fine for a smaller solar set up , dont need a 400 amp bus bar for a 100 amp camper set up , everything has a use , just need to know what size your set up is and buy according to how much power your running ....cheep doesnt always mean garbage but you should always do your research when it comes to electrical , fire is never a good thing off grid .....
1st link for red bus bar is not correct it goes to $39 pair
Thanks for letting me know. I corrected it.
So happy to see you guys starting to use mm instead of this crazy 3 1/16 gibberish lol.
Yeah, like mm, km, meter is so scientific.....
"The French originated the meter in the 1790s as one/ten-millionth of the distance from the equator to the north pole along a meridian through Paris."
They are simple a base-10 system ultimately based upon an arbitrary distance from a planetary pole to a random spot on the planet... One crazy gibberish vs another.
If it matters, agreeance is a new-ish word that hasn’t made it into the dictionaries yet. It seems like people use it for the same meaning as agreement.
One of the links is wrong.
Thanks for letting me know. I corrected it.
Just got a refund from ebay for these cheap ones. I thought of buying another set and doubling up the actual bar bit (which does seem to work), but in the end just got a Victron Lynx Power In (which is complete overkill and like most Victron products - huge).
Shame they don’t make the with 5 studs
Now I want to see someone purposely melt a bus bar.