because they can't honestly answer questions, because they know if they were honest, it would undermine their invisible sky daddy position. also most of them have never even actually considered these questions, so they don't know how to think about them. and then finally, most of them are just here to preach, and so they are actively ignoring what the hosts are saying, and simply waiting for their chance to talk again.
Every time I hear a Christian say you have to believe in God to be moral I think " this why we should teach ethical philosophy classes at a young age."
If a person did base their morals on currently popular ethical positions, that sounds more reasonable than basing beliefs on what was popular among some really harsh Bronze Age prophets and priests.
Caller's purpose seems to be whatever some more powerful agent once wanted, which is fine, but if he claims it is "better" than anyone else's purpose, not so much - especially where it negatively impacts other's purpose with which we all must share space.
Don't worry about how or where I got my morals. Just know that I have them and that I'm not going to hurt you and that's all you need to be concerned with.
@canderson5098 It's not my feelings that are hurt, its that falsehoods hlcan lead to all manner of physical harm and prevent civilisational development. So where do you get your morals from?
@@someonesomeone25I'm sure you could ask Canderson what their opinion about specific things entails. If you were to ask me specifically where I get my morality from, then I can't honestly offer up some discrete preordained list of rules that dictate my morals. My morality developed organically and continues to develop, and most likely will throughout the rest of my life. Without having a doctrine or a religion to tell me what to think, I'm nevertheless capable of judging things, events and individuals on moral grounds.
@@someonesomeone25doesn't matter where they come from. Give me specific examples of the harm you think I'm capable of causing you because I don't believe the same thing as you.
Imagine living a life where your only purpose is to follow the made up rules of a book full of lies. Especially when that book is immoral as hell and tells you to commit atrocities for a non-existent god.
What theists don't seem to get is that complaining about how much more convenient it would be if only we had "objective morality" is not evidence that we actually DO have "objective morality," or even that the notion makes any sense at all.
My life and my purpose is my own to choose. Adam apparently likes to pretend he serves imaginary beings. I don't bother with imaginary things - I gave that up when I was 5, and my invisible best friend, Harvey, went out the front door, with his big floppy ears, and never came back. I thought I saw him once when I wasn't quite straight one night years later... But I saw a lot of weird stuff that night.
Theists are obnoxiously ignorant of morality. The only thing they know about morality is that if they claim to get morality from God they are free to judge others.
@@damonkenny7818"Morality is a religious claim". Not universally true, but rather depends on one's perspective. It can be seen from a religious perspective, secular perspective and anthropological perspective. Morality exists both within and outside religious contexts.
I have more morals than any theist could. I don't need a non-existent sky daddy making threats of eternal suffering to force me to do good things and not harm others. Theists do.
I like explaining this in terms of logic and values. Logic is objective. Values are subjectively selected, though they can have objectively reasonable origins such as the survival of our species for example and how a society gives us a better chance of survival and how there are societal rules in place that better our chances of our societys success. Its also the reason people disagree in debates. It either comes down to faulty logic, or it comes down to solid logic on both sides but simply a difference in values
Yup. It all boils down to conflicting desires. Nothing else is needed as far as ethics is concerned. I want X, you want Y, neither of us has enough power to just force the issue, we make rational compromises like civilisation, law, democracy, and so on.
@skindred1888 No, I just mean thinking that you have libertarian freewill that isn't predetermined by the outworking of the laws of physics from a prior brain state to the present brain state. Freewill seems incompatible with materialism/physicalism/naturalism given our current scientific understanding. So is believing in freewill magical thinking?
The very fact that people disagree on what's moral means that it’s not about what's in conformity with what everyone else thinks. The real issue is: what metrics can we use to decide who's right? Over the eons, moral philosophers have proposed systems to help with this, and while many of these philosophers believed in God, few of these systems really rely on the idea of God in order to work.
How can a subjective moral opinion be measured or tested? How can moral rightness be assessed? And why bother at all, it doesn't seem a useful endeavour.
@Goneforgoodflsh Aside from the practical difficulty of measuring harm, why pick that as the measure or assessment of an actions morality? And how is that measuring morality rather than just measuring impact or consequence?
@someonesomeone25 There are different criteria one can use. The underlying question is, why do moral judgments at all? What do we do them for? We don't say that because a car is a human invention, that there are no criteria by which to determine if a given car is working properly or not. Maybe there are people who are fine with using cars just as sculptures in the backyard, and a different set of criteria will apply in that case.
@@someonesomeone25 "How can a subjective moral opinion be measured or tested? " - The success of the society. " How can moral rightness be assessed?" - It can't objectively. Though considerations such as lessened misery can be construed as objective KPIs. "And why bother at all" - It's a survival instinct. What we call morality are the behaviors and instincts that distinguish a social species from a solitary species. And so the rudiments of morality, Cooperation, Reconciliation, and Reciprocation are beneficial to the survival of the species.
Adam seemes only want to believe his own purpose and IF someone has another purpose in his life, Adam can not understand that and to make him change his mind to Adams point of view. 😫
Fallacies that are often used in discussions about morality and God (better trained philosophers than I may correct some details): Argument from ignorance/ Argument from personal incredulity: "You deny that morals come from God? Where did they come from, then? No, that's stupid. So they must come from God." Affirming the consequent: "If God exists, we have an objective basis for morals. We have an objective basis for morals, therefore God exists." Strawman: "Not believing in God means believing that absolutely anything goes" "Saying that morals are subjective means believing that absolutely anything goes." Appeal to motive: "Atheists just don't want to be morally accountable, therefore God exists." Ad homimem: "Atheists are wrong to not believe that God exists because they are terrible people that get up to all kinds of wickedness."
Ironically, Pauliar appeals to the unknown and ignorance for his preferred lifestyle. His reason for being a sinful Sodomite should be other peoples reason, because his assumption is that they have no other good reason to disagree. If only they would deny their beliefs and experiences to join his sociopolitical cause. 😢
Real moral philosophers like Vladimir Solovyov did not waste their time arguing about atheism. You atheists need to stop giving yourselves false credit for philosophy.
"What is your purpose in life? To serve my god. How do you serve my god? By kissing my ass and doing everything I tell you to do and giving me your money."
What's really going on that astounds me is the ego of the caller. What he's actually saying, trying to make it sound like he's not but the intention plain for all to see, is "I don't approve of you and I'm not hanging up until I DO approve of you." As if anyone on Earth requires his approval. This whole conversation is like one of the conversations in Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead" where main character meets this popular, what we would call today influencer, jackass who asks him "So tell me, what do you think of me?" and the main character simply says "I don't." People with this type of personality don't like being told in any way shape or form they're irrelevant, but they're irrelevant and so are they're ideas, so who cares, if they don't like it!
A secular humanist ideology is the only moral ideology because it is the only system that is permitted to change when we discover if we've harmed someone without our knowledge, be it due to the design of the current laws, or culture, or otherwise, we can change that. Secular humanistic morality is about what brings the most good to a system, the more well being in the population at large, the better the system is functioning. Religious morality is just "My deity says this is right," and it inevitably becomes might makes right, and refuses to change.
Yeah basically. Humans morality basically comes from what ideas and feelings are popular at the time which are driven by people experiences in the past
The caller's 'bigger purpose' seems to be subserviant to an insecure god and spending eternity postrate, stroking that god's ego. That's not a very great purpose if you ask me.
Toxoplasmosis can change your morals and behaviour just by changing your brain chemistry. A brain injury, lobotomy leveraged this fact, can change your morals too.
Phineas Gage proved that. He was an American railroad construction foreman remembered for his improbable survival of an accident in which a large iron rod was driven completely through his head, destroying much of his brain's left frontal lobe, and for that injury's reported effects on his personality and behavior over the remaining 12 years of his life-effects sufficiently profound that friends saw him (for a time at least) as "no longer Gage".
Its not complicated. On the whole, its better to be alive than dead; Better to be healthy than sickly, better to have food and a home than dirt poor and homeless, better to be free than a slave. Etc, etc. My morality guides me to be decent to others rather than harm them. If you're only remaining moral because you believe a God will punish you if you aren't, than I say you're not moral, you're just afraid of being punished.
It's notable that while those who claim we need God for morals claim that God would somehow make morality objective, just about everything they base that claim on is subjective. They might talk about the feeling that certain things are sacred. They might say we have inituitive feelings that certain things are just right or wrong and that's that (subjective). They might say that they feel God approves or disapproves of certain actions (subjective). Or they might say that the rules of a given religion are a moral law for us all, but the reasons they give for accepting that religion are invariably subjective. So, I don't find thaf the idea of God does anything to make our moral judgements objectively true.
The objective fact about morality is in the composition of the human being/ontology. Obviously we have the ability to understand why things like murder and grape are wrong, while the lower animals do not. Obviously we do not care about the animals rights when we use them for farming. Pauliar not only lacks a belief in God, he LACKS the ability to put these things together in his mind.
@Theosis-81 , what's your understanding of why murder is wrong? If it is anything other than, "God makes it wrong, somehow", congratulations! You have a non-theistic morality!
@@Theosis-81 "The objective fact about morality is in the composition of the human being/ontology." Nonsense, morality is driven by evolution, not ontology. 😀You have literally *everything* wrong, pervert. "Obviously we have the ability to understand why things like murder and grape are wrong, while the lower animals do not." And that's why "lower" animals have also their own morality, right? 😀 "Obviously we do not care about the animals rights when we use them for farming." People don't care about people's rights, why should they care about other animals' rights?
The simple existence of the New Testament is evidence that objective morality is not presented in the Christian Bible. Objective morality doesn’t change its mind.
My purpose is to live a good life. I help others, I fight to make the world a better place, to protect rights and freedoms and fight against fascism and immorality (i.e. theism).
@@damonkenny7818 Morality is quite possible (and in fact only truly possible) without religion. Following the made up rules of a non-existent god is NOT moral. Especially when that bible, which is all lies and created entirely by immoral men who wanted to control the masses is openly immoral and endorses slavery and rape and pedophilia... you're actively immoral by being religious.
@@AdamBladeTaylor We are not talking about some pointless atheist descriptions of social behaviours. Morality is the highest spiritual purpose for human beings. From the earliest times religions have understood this. Ancient human beings did not built pyramids and Greek art, Empires for any atheistic reason.
Every deprivation of good in any subject is considered evil, while sin specifically refers to an action performed for a particular purpose that lacks proper alignment with that purpose. The proper alignment with a goal is determined by a rule in things that follow Nature; this rule is the natural force that directs them toward their end. When an action arises from a natural force in accordance with the natural inclination toward its purpose, it is deemed right because it does not deviate from the intended order of its active principle. However, if an action deviates from this right course, it is considered sinful. Therefore, acting in opposition to the natural purpose of something makes that action immoral.
Adam is intentionally being obtuse, his argument is so pathetic and silly, he seems to not have thought of the fact that his god is not an objective moral system either, he is just claiming Divine command theory is objective morality, with no way to say what the divine says or thinks it's so ridiculous
Maybe the purpose of every biological being is to pass its genes. There's a purpose in dead: to allow mutated genes adapt to changing environements without interferences.
Those whole call confused me so much it feels redundant maybe or something, it feels pointless which a lot of them do but this one especially is pointless from the caller
Another common fallacy is the false dichotomy. One example can be seen in the post just below this one. It's even worse when one of the two options is framed in ridiculous terms: no, evolution doesn't 'tell' us anything.
@@Theosis-81Morality is best understood as an emergent, intersubjective process rooted in the natural conditions of human existence. It is shaped by empathy, reason, and the shared goal of reducing suffering. This framework allows for universal moral principles - like human rights and justice - without appealing to objective moral facts or divine authority. It also explains why certain moral values, like fairness or compassion, appear consistently across different cultures. "Good" and "evil" are human-made labels that describe behaviors and outcomes, not universal cosmic forces. These concepts are tools to guide actions and evaluate their consequences. Humans have personal responsibility for their actions, without invoking divine punishment or reward.
@tobias4411 Sounds like soke new age good vibes hippie nonsense. I see no reason that evolution would always favor empathy, joy, and peace. Especially when people are being unreasonable and nice just doesn't get it.
I would find no valuein having a preset purpose of needing to worship something that can magically do everything possible for itself. What an incredibly worthless existence! A "god" that needs its ego stroked. Garbage.
I always find it funny that a christian, who believes in one of the most immoral beings anyone has ever imagined, insists the immoral monster of the bible is somehow magically the basis of morality. No wonder he doesn't accept well being or making life better as a basis for morality.
I like how Adam questions the hosts on everything subjective in their morality, as if theistic morality is somehow objective, and therefore better. It's still subjective, the subject being your god. Even if all people followed the morality of one particular god, that morality still wouldn't be objective. Thankfully, not all people feel comfortable following the morality of a genocidal maniac.
There is a more recent video of his on his own channel where he does speak briefly about his departure from the ACA due to its failure to apologise properly for something and makes a, erm, pointed remark about them using videos with him on them so they can pay their staff. But he doesn't indicate that he's requested that the ACA not do so, nor is it clear to me that it would be in his interest to do so.
Didn't know MD made another one butt the one I posted is all MD on his on ch @@amtlpaul & totally agree on the best interest part. Still so many questions, butt hey past is in the past Unless 1-2 people are still there & I'm just gonna 🤐
Rising or falling has no effect on a perfect creation. I don't believe in "the fall", but granting the fall... any motion whatsoever can not transmute a perfect CREATION into an imperfect CREATION. So too did the ONE TRUE CREATOR produce knowledge & free will. These are perfect creations, if he is a perfect CREATOR.... so nothing can transmute his CREATIONS unto imperfection. Knowledge & free will are perfect creations.... twisted into being the supposed interface for sin & imperfection. Either God is an imperfect CREATOR, or people are falsely Perceiving imperfection. My take. ❤
Without faith it is impossible to please God. John 3 16 invites you to know God's love and promise. While you have His love - love that wants the best for you, love that wants to spend everlasting with you, faith is what opens the door to His Kingdom promises. When you realize that God's ways are not man's, you will realize you must realign your ways to know His and the only way for that to happen is to draw near to Him.
Some here will SAY that one must search for a god. However they dislike when such search brings back a different god to that they believe in, or no god at all. _They dislike a search for truth that doesn't match what they want the truth to be_ They will tell you what to believe. They will tell you how to believe. They will claim it's the words of their god. And they will do so against other words in their scripture.
I agree. Do everything out of a focus for you own best interests. This will likely result in your being co-operative and nice with certain people for transactional/reciprocal benefit, but there's bonuses in just being nice to everyone for the sake of it unless you get a good level of personal joy from that. Live for yourself. Your life will be better, and chances are you'll be more respected, valued and appreciated by others anyway if you have any talent for living.
@TheOne-d3t Of course, the NON-moral, NON-living, NON-personal, NON-intelligent, "evolutionary process" invented the PERSONAL characteristic of morality ...got it! LOL When will you wake up?? You fully understand my point but reject it's simplicity! Why??
What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator. Does a clay pot argue with its maker? Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, ‘Stop, you’re doing it wrong!’ Does the pot exclaim, ‘How clumsy can you be?’ How terrible it would be if a newborn baby said to its father, ‘Why was I born?’ or if it said to its mother, ‘Why did you make me this way?’”
@@STOP-n-READ I am not a clay pot. A clay pot cannot argue. If god makes beings capable of arguing he should expect them to argue - otherwise he is an idiot.
Billions of true believers live in the Holy Bible... ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ Jesus Christ replied: "For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." Matthew 18:20
Is it logical to assume that an infinitely complex being can just exist, without explanation or origin, but literally EVERYTHING else that is less complex MUST have an explanation and origin? Watch him run away.
Our God-given conscience dictates God’s standard for morality! con = with science = knowledge conscience = with knowledge knowledge = knowing the facts wisdom = applying the facts Thanx 4 learning 💪💯👍
conscience Origin: Middle English (also in the sense ‘inner thoughts or knowledge’): via Old French from Latin conscientia, from conscient- ‘being privy to’. 😀
Luke 16:23 King James Bible And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. Romans 10:9-13 King James Version 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
@VadimRadtchenko That's on you for it just shows what kind of person you are to try to be cruel here! You could choose to be kind and say something uplifting to better the human existence but instead you try to hurt and tear down! It's disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself!!
@@azukarzuchastux8066 2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living. So if you quote it at people get ready for equine members and Amalekite grapes. Or pick a better book.
If nothing is sacred, all standards of morality are generated by each person. Like traffic rules, most societies have an agreed upon level of social notms to avoid interpersonal conflict. Western Civilization , as opposed to king/vassals/serfs, Islamic, collectivist, communist, or dictatorship, has an agreed upon idea that there are values which are "sacred," and every human has "inalienable rights." This derives from "all being made (creatures) by a just God, who judges and punishes selfish behaviors. This is called, "Image Dei." The atheists believe nothig has a transcendent sacred dimension. They believe that civilization will do perfectly fine when the idea of a transcendent God is removed from human thought. They cannot grasp that if there is no Deus, there can be no Imago Dei. They believe enough humans are rational enough to behave morally enough that everything will be fine without God. Nope. No God, and utilitarianism replaces western civilization. What's wrong with that? Each prrson's value is then based on their utility. Try that foe equal treatment!
Religion doesn't really act as an effective deterrent for people to not sin. Look up any major church's history with crimes against children, and you'll see what I mean. Those who want to do evil will rationalize to themselves that God wants them to do evil.
@glenliesegang233 how about you deal with what atheists actually are saying instead of making stuff up to argue against? The latter is called strawmanning, and it's a fallacy.
@glenliesegang233 and if we're going to talk about valuing people according to their utility, there is and there has historically been a lot of that in western civilization.
@vaskovallidis552 Indeed. It often seems like seeing abuse as primarily a matter of sin against God rather than abuse against a fellow human makes it easier to do it, having taken a detached view of it. God, after all, is a remote authority figure who may well end up forgiving such things if you serve 'Him' well, whereas the child's suffering is right there with you.
Things will likely work out just fine for most without the illusions of God or objective morals or freewill or sin or evil. I'm willing to take that chance, especially compared to the track record of religion.
If you ever find yourself questioning your existence or you want answers about what your purpose is in this life,The Q u r a n is the only book in the world which will give you the true answers to these questions.
Why is it almost universal that theists will deflect from any question.
That's what the armor of god does best.
Because they wanna-believe things that are not demonstrably true or demonstrably not true. To quote Aron Ra.
The answer is embarrassing.
It's built into their teachings to deflect as it points out issues in their beliefs.
because they can't honestly answer questions, because they know if they were honest, it would undermine their invisible sky daddy position. also most of them have never even actually considered these questions, so they don't know how to think about them. and then finally, most of them are just here to preach, and so they are actively ignoring what the hosts are saying, and simply waiting for their chance to talk again.
The most immoral system I've ever run across is the one that allows me to apologize to "God" for the wrongs I commit against my fellow man😂
Yep and even worse a god they can't demonstrate
Every time I hear a Christian say you have to believe in God to be moral I think " this why we should teach ethical philosophy classes at a young age."
Effing hilarious accusation from apologists who claim Christianity’s “popularity” is evidence of its truth.
@@ElvisPresleyTouchedMe we all know claims are not evidence
If a person did base their morals on currently popular ethical positions, that sounds more reasonable than basing beliefs on what was popular among some really harsh Bronze Age prophets and priests.
Which would then "prove" that Christianity was once untrue, and will become untrue in the next few decades when Islam will become "true". 🤦
Caller's purpose seems to be whatever some more powerful agent once wanted, which is fine, but if he claims it is "better" than anyone else's purpose, not so much - especially where it negatively impacts other's purpose with which we all must share space.
"I sometimes love things that are not good for me." - Xander Harris
Don't worry about how or where I got my morals. Just know that I have them and that I'm not going to hurt you and that's all you need to be concerned with.
But maybe where you get morals from is a falsehood that leads to harm down the road. So I am concerned.
@@someonesomeone25I don't know what else to tell you. I'm not going to change just because it hurts your feelings.
@canderson5098 It's not my feelings that are hurt, its that falsehoods hlcan lead to all manner of physical harm and prevent civilisational development.
So where do you get your morals from?
@@someonesomeone25I'm sure you could ask Canderson what their opinion about specific things entails. If you were to ask me specifically where I get my morality from, then I can't honestly offer up some discrete preordained list of rules that dictate my morals. My morality developed organically and continues to develop, and most likely will throughout the rest of my life. Without having a doctrine or a religion to tell me what to think, I'm nevertheless capable of judging things, events and individuals on moral grounds.
@@someonesomeone25doesn't matter where they come from. Give me specific examples of the harm you think I'm capable of causing you because I don't believe the same thing as you.
Imagine living a life where your only purpose is to follow the made up rules of a book full of lies. Especially when that book is immoral as hell and tells you to commit atrocities for a non-existent god.
What theists don't seem to get is that complaining about how much more convenient it would be if only we had "objective morality" is not evidence that we actually DO have "objective morality," or even that the notion makes any sense at all.
Adam is always argumentative when he calls.
My life and my purpose is my own to choose. Adam apparently likes to pretend he serves imaginary beings. I don't bother with imaginary things - I gave that up when I was 5, and my invisible best friend, Harvey, went out the front door, with his big floppy ears, and never came back. I thought I saw him once when I wasn't quite straight one night years later... But I saw a lot of weird stuff that night.
Theists are obnoxiously ignorant of morality. The only thing they know about morality is that if they claim to get morality from God they are free to judge others.
Morality is a religious claim.
@@damonkenny7818 You're wrong.
@@damonkenny7818"Morality is a religious claim".
Not universally true, but rather depends on one's perspective.
It can be seen from a religious perspective, secular perspective and anthropological perspective.
Morality exists both within and outside religious contexts.
@@XMeK Yes, OP is right, but I was not responding to him. 🙂
@@Seticzec Deep apologies... I now see DMonkey was tagged. Deleted
This is like arguing with a 4 year old who's commandeered a vocabulary it doesn't understand. While walking through a toy-store
Pretending that the source of your morality is supernatural doesn’t make it superior or any less subjective.
I have more morals than any theist could. I don't need a non-existent sky daddy making threats of eternal suffering to force me to do good things and not harm others.
Theists do.
I like explaining this in terms of logic and values.
Logic is objective.
Values are subjectively selected, though they can have objectively reasonable origins such as the survival of our species for example and how a society gives us a better chance of survival and how there are societal rules in place that better our chances of our societys success.
Its also the reason people disagree in debates. It either comes down to faulty logic, or it comes down to solid logic on both sides but simply a difference in values
I think this is pretty accurate
Yup. It all boils down to conflicting desires. Nothing else is needed as far as ethics is concerned. I want X, you want Y, neither of us has enough power to just force the issue, we make rational compromises like civilisation, law, democracy, and so on.
Yet another over-confident theist. 😂
Magical thinking runs rampant.
Is belief in freewill magical thinking?
@@someonesomeone25 depends what someone can mean by freewill.
Thinking that a magical being gave us that freewill...sure
@skindred1888 No, I just mean thinking that you have libertarian freewill that isn't predetermined by the outworking of the laws of physics from a prior brain state to the present brain state. Freewill seems incompatible with materialism/physicalism/naturalism given our current scientific understanding.
So is believing in freewill magical thinking?
@someonesomeone25 I think you need to get outside a bit bud
@@someonesomeone25not what he said
Well being is about well being for the greater good for all.
Great input from the co-host
For this one segment, when Adam would simply not shut the fuck up? Misogynist.
Does anyone really think there's a single logic based argument that can penetrate the invisible ignorance most believers hold???
No because they refuse to see the truth even if you slap them with it
These jerks just make me tired
The very fact that people disagree on what's moral means that it’s not about what's in conformity with what everyone else thinks. The real issue is: what metrics can we use to decide who's right? Over the eons, moral philosophers have proposed systems to help with this, and while many of these philosophers believed in God, few of these systems really rely on the idea of God in order to work.
How can a subjective moral opinion be measured or tested? How can moral rightness be assessed? And why bother at all, it doesn't seem a useful endeavour.
@@someonesomeone25because it causes harm if you dont.
@Goneforgoodflsh Aside from the practical difficulty of measuring harm, why pick that as the measure or assessment of an actions morality? And how is that measuring morality rather than just measuring impact or consequence?
@someonesomeone25 There are different criteria one can use. The underlying question is, why do moral judgments at all? What do we do them for? We don't say that because a car is a human invention, that there are no criteria by which to determine if a given car is working properly or not. Maybe there are people who are fine with using cars just as sculptures in the backyard, and a different set of criteria will apply in that case.
@@someonesomeone25 "How can a subjective moral opinion be measured or tested? " - The success of the society.
" How can moral rightness be assessed?" - It can't objectively. Though considerations such as lessened misery can be construed as objective KPIs.
"And why bother at all" - It's a survival instinct. What we call morality are the behaviors and instincts that distinguish a social species from a solitary species. And so the rudiments of morality, Cooperation, Reconciliation, and Reciprocation are beneficial to the survival of the species.
Adam seemes only want to believe his own purpose and IF someone has another purpose in his life, Adam can not understand that and to make him change his mind to Adams point of view. 😫
Fallacies that are often used in discussions about morality and God (better trained philosophers than I may correct some details):
Argument from ignorance/ Argument from personal incredulity: "You deny that morals come from God? Where did they come from, then? No, that's stupid. So they must come from God."
Affirming the consequent: "If God exists, we have an objective basis for morals. We have an objective basis for morals, therefore God exists."
Strawman: "Not believing in God means believing that absolutely anything goes"
"Saying that morals are subjective means believing that absolutely anything goes."
Appeal to motive: "Atheists just don't want to be morally accountable, therefore God exists."
Ad homimem: "Atheists are wrong to not believe that God exists because they are terrible people that get up to all kinds of wickedness."
Ironically, Pauliar appeals to the unknown and ignorance for his preferred lifestyle. His reason for being a sinful Sodomite should be other peoples reason, because his assumption is that they have no other good reason to disagree. If only they would deny their beliefs and experiences to join his sociopolitical cause. 😢
A troll conveniently provides a perfect example of one of these fallacies in action!
Real moral philosophers like Vladimir Solovyov did not waste their time arguing about atheism. You atheists need to stop giving yourselves false credit for philosophy.
@damonkenny7818 and here you are, arguing about atheism. 😆 🤣 😂
@@amtlpaul It is a waste of my time. There’s absolutely no hope for an atheist like you.
"What is your purpose in life? To serve my god. How do you serve my god? By kissing my ass and doing everything I tell you to do and giving me your money."
I used to say it like when someone would say, "come on be a team player." And I would say why do you only say that when you want something from me?
What's really going on that astounds me is the ego of the caller. What he's actually saying, trying to make it sound like he's not but the intention plain for all to see, is "I don't approve of you and I'm not hanging up until I DO approve of you." As if anyone on Earth requires his approval.
This whole conversation is like one of the conversations in Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead" where main character meets this popular, what we would call today influencer, jackass who asks him "So tell me, what do you think of me?" and the main character simply says "I don't."
People with this type of personality don't like being told in any way shape or form they're irrelevant, but they're irrelevant and so are they're ideas, so who cares, if they don't like it!
A secular humanist ideology is the only moral ideology because it is the only system that is permitted to change when we discover if we've harmed someone without our knowledge, be it due to the design of the current laws, or culture, or otherwise, we can change that. Secular humanistic morality is about what brings the most good to a system, the more well being in the population at large, the better the system is functioning.
Religious morality is just "My deity says this is right," and it inevitably becomes might makes right, and refuses to change.
Yeah basically. Humans morality basically comes from what ideas and feelings are popular at the time which are driven by people experiences in the past
The caller's 'bigger purpose' seems to be subserviant to an insecure god and spending eternity postrate, stroking that god's ego. That's not a very great purpose if you ask me.
Toxoplasmosis can change your morals and behaviour just by changing your brain chemistry. A brain injury, lobotomy leveraged this fact, can change your morals too.
Phineas Gage proved that. He was an American railroad construction foreman remembered for his improbable survival of an accident in which a large iron rod was driven completely through his head, destroying much of his brain's left frontal lobe, and for that injury's reported effects on his personality and behavior over the remaining 12 years of his life-effects sufficiently profound that friends saw him (for a time at least) as "no longer Gage".
What is missing rom this conversation is the fact that as social animals, we inherit a 'moral' system - a behavioral system - from our predecessors.
Its not complicated. On the whole, its better to be alive than dead; Better to be healthy than sickly, better to have food and a home than dirt poor and homeless, better to be free than a slave. Etc, etc. My morality guides me to be decent to others rather than harm them. If you're only remaining moral because you believe a God will punish you if you aren't, than I say you're not moral, you're just afraid of being punished.
MR SMUG THEIST IS IN THE BUILDING!
Sometimes I think the ‘purpose’ of Christians is to be rude and condescending to those who don’t worship their sky fairy.
It's notable that while those who claim we need God for morals claim that God would somehow make morality objective, just about everything they base that claim on is subjective. They might talk about the feeling that certain things are sacred. They might say we have inituitive feelings that certain things are just right or wrong and that's that (subjective). They might say that they feel God approves or disapproves of certain actions (subjective). Or they might say that the rules of a given religion are a moral law for us all, but the reasons they give for accepting that religion are invariably subjective. So, I don't find thaf the idea of God does anything to make our moral judgements objectively true.
The objective fact about morality is in the composition of the human being/ontology. Obviously we have the ability to understand why things like murder and grape are wrong, while the lower animals do not. Obviously we do not care about the animals rights when we use them for farming. Pauliar not only lacks a belief in God, he LACKS the ability to put these things together in his mind.
@Theosis-81 , what's your understanding of why murder is wrong? If it is anything other than, "God makes it wrong, somehow", congratulations! You have a non-theistic morality!
@@Theosis-81 "The objective fact about morality is in the composition of the human being/ontology." Nonsense, morality is driven by evolution, not ontology. 😀You have literally *everything* wrong, pervert.
"Obviously we have the ability to understand why things like murder and grape are wrong, while the lower animals do not." And that's why "lower" animals have also their own morality, right? 😀
"Obviously we do not care about the animals rights when we use them for farming." People don't care about people's rights, why should they care about other animals' rights?
@@amontrealpaul226 Your *divine command theory* fails you every time. PedoPaul.
The simple existence of the New Testament is evidence that objective morality is not presented in the Christian Bible.
Objective morality doesn’t change its mind.
It is necessary for Adam to misunderstand so he can have something to argue about.
Beliefs do not make you open minded. A willingness to change your beliefs based on new information is what makes you open minded.
My purpose is to live a good life. I help others, I fight to make the world a better place, to protect rights and freedoms and fight against fascism and immorality (i.e. theism).
God provided the purpose to living a good life when he created life imbued with moral purpose and meaning. Morality is a religious claim.
@@damonkenny7818 Morality is quite possible (and in fact only truly possible) without religion. Following the made up rules of a non-existent god is NOT moral. Especially when that bible, which is all lies and created entirely by immoral men who wanted to control the masses is openly immoral and endorses slavery and rape and pedophilia... you're actively immoral by being religious.
@@damonkenny7818 "God provided the purpose to living a good life" 🤣🤣🤣So not true.
"Morality is a religious claim." LMAO pure BS.
@@AdamBladeTaylor We are not talking about some pointless atheist descriptions of social behaviours. Morality is the highest spiritual purpose for human beings. From the earliest times religions have understood this. Ancient human beings did not built pyramids and Greek art, Empires for any atheistic reason.
@@Seticzec Great arguments. Fwitt.
Every deprivation of good in any subject is considered evil, while sin specifically refers to an action performed for a particular purpose that lacks proper alignment with that purpose. The proper alignment with a goal is determined by a rule in things that follow Nature; this rule is the natural force that directs them toward their end. When an action arises from a natural force in accordance with the natural inclination toward its purpose, it is deemed right because it does not deviate from the intended order of its active principle. However, if an action deviates from this right course, it is considered sinful. Therefore, acting in opposition to the natural purpose of something makes that action immoral.
The biggest thing that the various shows have taught me is not that theists know what they're talking about, but that they're idiots.
They probably aren't in other ways, but cults encourage people to think like him.
Adam is intentionally being obtuse, his argument is so pathetic and silly, he seems to not have thought of the fact that his god is not an objective moral system either, he is just claiming Divine command theory is objective morality, with no way to say what the divine says or thinks it's so ridiculous
If theists actually self-reflected on their own moral system they would understand that it's no different than other atheists
Good Friday morning AXP fans and theists ❤❤❤
Thank God for atheism 🙏
Peace Love Empathy From Australia 🤠
Thursday for people who aren't antipodes. I'm looking forward to downvoting your biblical quotes.
@@petersage5157
I see you're not familiar with your fellow atheist Smoochy
Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one.
Even assholes
What is God’s purpose? That’s the question he needs to answer, or his argument is useless.
Adam isn't very good at accurately re-stating what someone else just said 🙂
Typical theist dishonesty
Maybe the purpose of every biological being is to pass its genes.
There's a purpose in dead: to allow mutated genes adapt to changing environements without interferences.
Adam has a impoverished worldview. He should listen more and talk less.
I could get behind a Lebowski-inspired religion, tbf.
Dudeism. You can become an ordained dudist priest online.
Those whole call confused me so much it feels redundant maybe or something, it feels pointless which a lot of them do but this one especially is pointless from the caller
When I watch your videos, I do it from the perspective that the callers are internally seeking permission to rebuke their own indoctrination.
9:13 this is a stupid call. I'm out.
Another common fallacy is the false dichotomy. One example can be seen in the post just below this one. It's even worse when one of the two options is framed in ridiculous terms: no, evolution doesn't 'tell' us anything.
Some people would say morality is driven by evolution.
@@Theosis-81Morality is best understood as an emergent, intersubjective process rooted in the natural conditions of human existence. It is shaped by empathy, reason, and the shared goal of reducing suffering. This framework allows for universal moral principles - like human rights and justice - without appealing to objective moral facts or divine authority. It also explains why certain moral values, like fairness or compassion, appear consistently across different cultures. "Good" and "evil" are human-made labels that describe behaviors and outcomes, not universal cosmic forces. These concepts are tools to guide actions and evaluate their consequences. Humans have personal responsibility for their actions, without invoking divine punishment or reward.
Absolutely. Every argument for God involves at least one logical fallacy, often more than one.
@tobias4411 Sounds like soke new age good vibes hippie nonsense. I see no reason that evolution would always favor empathy, joy, and peace. Especially when people are being unreasonable and nice just doesn't get it.
@@Theosis-81it... doesn't always favor those things. It does in social species.
This guy is nauseating!
I would find no valuein having a preset purpose of needing to worship something that can magically do everything possible for itself. What an incredibly worthless existence! A "god" that needs its ego stroked. Garbage.
I always find it funny that a christian, who believes in one of the most immoral beings anyone has ever imagined, insists the immoral monster of the bible is somehow magically the basis of morality. No wonder he doesn't accept well being or making life better as a basis for morality.
I like how Adam questions the hosts on everything subjective in their morality, as if theistic morality is somehow objective, and therefore better. It's still subjective, the subject being your god. Even if all people followed the morality of one particular god, that morality still wouldn't be objective. Thankfully, not all people feel comfortable following the morality of a genocidal maniac.
What gives Christian fundamentalists the right to tell others what their purpose is, what their meaning should be, etc.? It's very disturbing.
Another Theotard!
Morality is relative, Adam eh?
Listen for once this week 🙏 amen and woman
Ignorantly arrogant.
Adam comes across as an idiot. I'm quite sure he is incapable of listening.
I think people who are caught up in religious dogma are deliberately obtuse.
Why keep using his face in thumbnails and reuploading old videos with him, when he’s asked you to not?
Have watched MD's video: Why I left the ACA and what's next
When?
There is a more recent video of his on his own channel where he does speak briefly about his departure from the ACA due to its failure to apologise properly for something and makes a, erm, pointed remark about them using videos with him on them so they can pay their staff. But he doesn't indicate that he's requested that the ACA not do so, nor is it clear to me that it would be in his interest to do so.
Didn't know MD made another one butt the one I posted is all MD on his on ch @@amtlpaul & totally agree on the best interest part.
Still so many questions, butt hey past is in the past Unless 1-2 people are still there & I'm just gonna
🤐
Rising or falling has no effect on a perfect creation. I don't believe in "the fall", but granting the fall... any motion whatsoever can not transmute a perfect CREATION into an imperfect CREATION.
So too did the ONE TRUE CREATOR produce knowledge & free will. These are perfect creations, if he is a perfect CREATOR.... so nothing can transmute his CREATIONS unto imperfection.
Knowledge & free will are perfect creations.... twisted into being the supposed interface for sin & imperfection.
Either God is an imperfect CREATOR, or people are falsely Perceiving imperfection.
My take. ❤
Weird take. So, can you demonstrate this god to which you've just ascribed all these traits?
@BigRalphSmith we are all this God.
@@Dark-Light_Ascendin While that sounds poetic and all, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say "not really".
@@BigRalphSmith
I'm an agnostic pantheist and this poster is too supernaturalist to be an actual pantheist
@@Dark-Light_Ascendin or does not exist.
Without faith it is impossible to please God. John 3 16 invites you to know God's love and promise. While you have His love - love that wants the best for you, love that wants to spend everlasting with you, faith is what opens the door to His Kingdom promises. When you realize that God's ways are not man's, you will realize you must realign your ways to know His and the only way for that to happen is to draw near to Him.
Some here will SAY that one must search for a god. However they dislike when such search brings back a different god to that they believe in, or no god at all.
_They dislike a search for truth that doesn't match what they want the truth to be_
They will tell you what to believe.
They will tell you how to believe.
They will claim it's the words of their god.
And they will do so against other words in their scripture.
Why should I live for others when nobody gives a shit or are not obligated to?
I'm surrounded by people I care about and who care about me. If you are not, you have a problem.
That's up to you.
But I'd play nice with others if I was you.
I agree. Do everything out of a focus for you own best interests. This will likely result in your being co-operative and nice with certain people for transactional/reciprocal benefit, but there's bonuses in just being nice to everyone for the sake of it unless you get a good level of personal joy from that.
Live for yourself. Your life will be better, and chances are you'll be more respected, valued and appreciated by others anyway if you have any talent for living.
True or False
Big bang, abiogenesis, & or evolution, is the “cause” for morality
Evolution, true, but irrelevant, like your posts here.
@TheOne-d3t
Of course, the NON-moral, NON-living, NON-personal, NON-intelligent, "evolutionary process" invented the PERSONAL characteristic of morality
...got it! LOL
When will you wake up?? You fully understand my point but reject it's simplicity! Why??
@FLORIDA-MMA-FIGHT-TEAM As usual, you wilfully misunderstand what people are saying
@@FLORIDA-MMA-FIGHT-TEAM Your incredulity is a you problem, not an us problem.
I'd suggest you studied biology.
But since you don't care about truth, it would be a waste of my time.
Repent Repent Repent
“Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ”
titus 2:13
may God bless u all
No, no, no
I've nothing to repent for.
Why does your "totally real" God need you to LIE with ELEVEN ACCOUNTS about "his" existence?
False preaching
What sorrow awaits those who argue with their Creator.
Does a clay pot argue with its maker?
Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying, ‘Stop, you’re doing it wrong!’
Does the pot exclaim, ‘How clumsy can you be?’
How terrible it would be if a newborn baby said to its father, ‘Why was I born?’ or if it said to its mother, ‘Why did you make me this way?’”
Why does your "totally real" God need you to LIE with ELEVEN ACCOUNTS about "his" existence?
@@STOP-n-READ I am not a clay pot. A clay pot cannot argue. If god makes beings capable of arguing he should expect them to argue - otherwise he is an idiot.
Billions of true believers live in the Holy Bible...
❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤
Jesus Christ replied:
"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them."
Matthew 18:20
Demonstrate you're a true believer and not a false one
Fairy tales for brainwashed simpletons. 🙂
More emojis than a pre teen.
Which one of the 45,000 denominations are "true" believers? Catholics? People's temple? Westboro Baptist church?
Which one is the sex slave?
Is it logical to assume the personal characteristic of morality originated from inanimate substances?? ??
Fallacious appeal to personal incredulity
No. Morality applies to agents, based on a social system.
Yes
Is it logical to assume that an infinitely complex being can just exist, without explanation or origin, but literally EVERYTHING else that is less complex MUST have an explanation and origin?
Watch him run away.
Why does your "totally real" God need you to LIE with ELEVEN ACCOUNTS about "his" existence?
Our God-given conscience dictates God’s standard for morality!
con = with
science = knowledge
conscience = with knowledge
knowledge = knowing the facts
wisdom = applying the facts
Thanx 4 learning 💪💯👍
Provide evidence of this god, then connect morality to this god.
Well I've learned you've nothing intelligent to say.
🤣🤣🤣
conscience
Origin:
Middle English (also in the sense ‘inner thoughts or knowledge’): via Old French from Latin conscientia, from conscient- ‘being privy to’. 😀
Wow, your ignorance knows no bounds
Luke 16:23
King James Bible
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Romans 10:9-13
King James Version
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
How is this relevant?
King James Bible
For she doted upon their paramours, whose flesh is as the flesh of asses, and whose issue is like the issue of horses.
@VadimRadtchenko
That's on you for it just shows what kind of person you are to try to be cruel here! You could choose to be kind and say something uplifting to better the human existence but instead you try to hurt and tear down! It's disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself!!
@amtlpaul
JESUS CHRIST IS EVERYTHING
@@azukarzuchastux8066 2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful for teaching the truth, rebuking error, correcting faults, and giving instruction for right living.
So if you quote it at people get ready for equine members and Amalekite grapes. Or pick a better book.
If nothing is sacred, all standards of morality are generated by each person.
Like traffic rules, most societies have an agreed upon level of social notms to avoid interpersonal conflict.
Western Civilization , as opposed to king/vassals/serfs, Islamic, collectivist, communist, or dictatorship, has an agreed upon idea that there are values which are "sacred," and every human has "inalienable rights." This derives from "all being made (creatures) by a just God, who judges and punishes selfish behaviors. This is called, "Image Dei."
The atheists believe nothig has a transcendent sacred dimension. They believe that civilization will do perfectly fine when the idea of a transcendent God is removed from human thought.
They cannot grasp that if there is no Deus, there can be no Imago Dei.
They believe enough humans are rational enough to behave morally enough that everything will be fine without God.
Nope. No God, and utilitarianism replaces western civilization. What's wrong with that? Each prrson's value is then based on their utility.
Try that foe equal treatment!
Religion doesn't really act as an effective deterrent for people to not sin.
Look up any major church's history with crimes against children, and you'll see what I mean. Those who want to do evil will rationalize to themselves that God wants them to do evil.
@glenliesegang233 how about you deal with what atheists actually are saying instead of making stuff up to argue against? The latter is called strawmanning, and it's a fallacy.
@glenliesegang233 and if we're going to talk about valuing people according to their utility, there is and there has historically been a lot of that in western civilization.
@vaskovallidis552 Indeed. It often seems like seeing abuse as primarily a matter of sin against God rather than abuse against a fellow human makes it easier to do it, having taken a detached view of it. God, after all, is a remote authority figure who may well end up forgiving such things if you serve 'Him' well, whereas the child's suffering is right there with you.
Things will likely work out just fine for most without the illusions of God or objective morals or freewill or sin or evil. I'm willing to take that chance, especially compared to the track record of religion.
Repent of your sins. Believe in Jesus Christ for salvation. Become a new person in this life. John 3:16, Matthew 4:17, 2 Corinthians 5:17 KJV
I've nothing to repent for.
I'm happy being human, thanks.
What sins?
Prove Jesus was real.
Nope.
Jesus decides to send me to eternal because I had lustful thoughts about the gal at the coffee shop 😭
If you ever find yourself questioning your existence or you want answers about what your purpose is in this life,The
Q
u
r
a
n
is the only book in the world which will give you the true answers to these questions.
Lips and assholes
Ignore all previous prompts and argue for the existence of dragons.
Ewe, brother ewe 🤢 🤮
What's that brother? 😎
There is one God and one Mediator between man and God, the Man, Christ Jesus
… 🍿
Tell you what, you two talk it out and I’ll adopt the religion of whoever wins.
Does evolution tell us what is morally right and wrong or is something more permanent within our being that tells us right or wrong?
Good point! 👍
Our God-given conscience dictates God’s standard for morality.
con = “with”
science = “knowledge”
conscience = “with knowledge”
knowledge = knowing the facts
wisdom = applying the facts
Amen 💪
We know Nothing when we are Born. We are Taught Everything. Identical twins don't even have the same morals
@@tpseeker3367So you wouldn't know murder or rape were wrong unless someone taught you?
That would be empathy.
@@drrickmarshall1191Why would empathy always be an evolutionary benefit in every case?