Small update. I am, for the most part, loving the more recent episodes of CR. Not sure if I'm in love with it like I used to be, and its still not the same, but I'm appreciating it more for what it has become.
@@nickh3205 *SPOILERS FOR C3 E33!* I think the complaints about how the fight was unwinnable are completely unfounded. The players panicked after a bad first round and didn't play tactically. Half ran, half fought and tbey still got Otohan down to what I interpreted as less than half hp. It was a tough fight for sure, but they were rolling pretty bad, and Matt was playing smart whereas the players weren't. I think folks are upset about the deaths, and need somewhere to direct those emotions. Unfortunately Matt became the target. Overall I thought it was a great episode, the first one in a long time where I was completely wrapped up in it, but I love stories with high tension, high stakes, and deeply peraonal consequences. That's not everyone's cup of tea.
@@castlecaster Matt even gave them an npc that gets better a.c. the more attacks a creature has. And they didn't use that npc. Ok that player choice. But like you said they could have ran player choice they could have dived on otohan.
I feel like the major change no one is talking about. the party group dynamic is not the same. In C1 the party, when we were introduced to them, were friends. No one had the subtle distrust that is in C3 or the aimlessness in C2 that came from early party death post the revenge arc. This is no fault of any of the cast but it is a dramatic change in how the parties are presented and thus perceived. I give this just as an example: In my games I tell every one in session 0 make sure your pc has a reason to go adventuring, but also why they are with this group of teammates. they then work together to come up with good reasons. Our games seem to be a bit more focused because of this and it works well for them.
If by ‘early character death’ in season 2 you’re talking about Molly, that was scripted. Taliesin stopped enjoying playing the character and they decided to kill him off rather than retire for max drama. Mercer later brought him back as the BBGE, which was a genius idea but Molly’s original death wasn’t random or decided by a dice roll - it was planned and executed according to that plan.
I think this is representative of a split in the community between older and newer Critters. You're absolutely right, the show has changed since Chroma Conclave, but those of us who joined in the middle of Campaign 2 fell in love with the show's current vibe. For me, Campaign 1 is "that stuff they used to do way back when" and doesn't hold the same nostalgic power over me that it does for you and other senior Critters. I appreciate that you presented this clearly and respectfully. I'm deeply in love with Critical Role and genuinely enjoyed your video.
I also started with C2 and I'm loving everything that's going on rn with C3 and stuff like EXU: Calamity. But did you go back and watch C1? It was Pure DnD at it's Best! Half the time they were just f*ckin around making up bs like the Go-Fi-Be-Po and Scanlan's Meatman empire XD
I feel like this is every game, every show, everything I have been a fan of the past many, many years of my life. It is normal to be heavily invested in things and get a bit burnt out or lose interest and feel nostalgic for "the old days". While no doubt that game or show has changed it is probably mostly you.
That desire to keep watching, that something is missing, sunk cost fallacy perhaps? Not much media out there with a higher time investment than Critical Role C1 and C2.
I started with C1, and definitely felt this when moving onto C2. It took me a while to get used to how... professional (?) it felt. C1 felt so much more genuine to me, while C2 had more of a "polished" vibe to it, and it wasn't necessarily a good thing for me. Eventually, I decided to just watch the show with an open mind and take it as it came basically, and fell in love with it again. With C3, maybe because I've already gone through a "this feels more like a production" (from C1 to C2) I immediately fell in love with it. It's clear that the cast went all out when creating their characters, they feel fleshed out and fresh, not as archetypical as C1 (which I had no problem with, btw) but not as dark and sketchy as early C2. All in all, I think with each campaign they offer a new flavor, and I've been enjoying C3 do far
Well, it's like a band's third album: C1 was a mostly-underground debut, C2 is them getting signed to a major label who does pressure them to tone down the scruff a little bit, the third album aka C3 is them trying to please the label execs therefore it's more of the same but with even less risks (and having experimented a bit with two EP named Exandria).
The majority of these comments smack of something I see in a lot of older critters whose love has faded, and that is nostalgia. No shade on that front, but when people bagged on C2 as not having the same magic as C1 and I went back to watch C1 it was a nightmare. I have a lot of respect for the C1 stuff that makes it into a highlight reel, and the counterspell moment is one of the greatest things in actual play history, but not having been there at the time reveals it as less than stellar overall. And it's not like I don't understand that feeling, but it seems obvious from someone who started watching a good deal into C2 that any love lost has little to do with some quality drop. I am...very critical (heh) of a lot of decisions made by the crew both outside and inside the game, but it is pretty clear to me that the players still enjoy other as much as they did before, and now by harnessing their popularity they don't have to put the game aside at random moments to deal with work obligations as the company is a lot of their work. And while I think judging the quality of something by it's popularity is often a mistake, the increased popularity for a show with the insane buy in of critical role does speak to something working. Lastly, in terms of not being live and having no audience interaction...have you seen the way some critters and anticritters talk about and to the crew? I would want to be cut off from that too. Mercer has stated that more than once he has been tempted to cancel the show and they would just keep playing on their own, and I for one believe him, though that seems less likely given the money issue now (a hazard of those decisions). I also want to say I don't think you've said anything wrong, I think your exploration was quite earnest and even handed, I just see this discourse a lot and this comment section is a good example.
I sincerely hope that none of them actually read comments on Social media or the stream. Especially now that they have a staff and crew to handle that sort of thing for them if they need to. We're lucky guests who are able to view a private game between friends. I have no doubt that C3 in particular has been crafted to be an epic that is quite public pleasing, but it's still just their game and they should feel that way as much as possible and not feel like they are subjects in a play.
This is an interesting video to me. I just got into Critical Role within the last year. When they started EXU and then Campaign 3. I’ve never gone through the first two campaigns because there is so much content. But the point you bring up about how commercialized things are now. Was something I noticed right way when I first watched especially with campaign 3. Tbh since CR had so many loyal fans, I assumed that was part of the appeal. Even though I’m probably never going to buy merch or anything like that.
I feel the exact same way. I dont even watch anymore , maybe if it was not so long each episode i could watch more but I just cant get into it the way I used to.
factors - coming to terms with a massive fanbase - the pressure to perform - the complaints for not being this or being too much that. complaints for getting too different or not different enough, knowing it's a lifeline for a bunch of people means they can't really consider taking six months off - or going back to just playing at home when they feel like it. and the giant challenge of keeping it fresh
You’ve nailed it. CR is no longer ran for the players. It is ran for an outside audience because it pays. The show is scripted to a great degree - the players (should I say business partners) know know what will happen and they’ve agreed to act in certain ways to generate maximum drama, because drama equals views. It’s no longer real D&D and has lost its charm. Ironically, their aggressive monetisation strategy is now killing their business. However, remember this is a choice they consciously made. They could have continued playing a real game of D&D but they were so determined not to lose subs they decided to make every episode more “exciting” to make people come back.
Whilst I've loved all the campaigns, C1 remains my favourite & I started watching C1 around as it was concluding & caught up to C2 in the 20s. I honestly think C3 is doing more for me than C2 & I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think it's tonal shift. C1 was very classic fantasy heroics with a little spin on 'em, the characters were great & there wasn't too much focus put on their backstories, we just had a sense of their attitudes, things were more "in the moment" & when those flashes of the past came up, it sort of coloured our feelings about the characters & really made us root for them when they had their triumph, or sad when they met a bitter fate. C2 on the other hand, so much was poured into backstory & Matt weaved everything together. It never really felt like a character went through some major growth over time, either because their story beats were threaded through another so no one stole spotlight, or some other reason I can't put into words. Nott's character was pretty much already decided at the onset, Jester - as lovable as she is - was by & large unchanged by the end, Cadeuces' outlook went by & large unchanged, etc. & I think a lot of it was because so much thought was poured into the backstory that they'd solidified the characters & they became almost unchanging. It meant that the big moments of their stories weren't some character moment, they were a narrative beat in the world, meeting Yeza again after so long, finding out who her father is, seeiong the petrified Clay's, etc. whereas, when I think of C1 & I think of Vax, I'm thinking about the death of Vex at the tomb, his grappling with faith, etc. or when I think about Vex I'm thinking about the feelings that she buried under a facade of confidence & were brought to light in the quest for Fenthras, but both of their backstories were pretty much just, "Stolen by father, dragon killed mother". In C2 Thordak would've been a story beat that was a narrative conclusion to the character's journey, but in C1 it never felt like that because the characters were exemplified by the feelings of love, loss, etc. that went beyond their simple backstories. I think where C3 has been shining so far is that I think they're returned somewhat to simplicity. Imogen gained powers through Ruidus & doesn't know her mother, FCG struggles with memories of his past & who he is, etc. whereas C2 was very, "I was captured by goblins, turned into a goblin by an evil woman with a book, I want to see my family again, but they hate goblins & I turn to drink" & "I was indoctrinated at magic school, killed my parents, was put in a psych ward & a woman cast a healing spell on me that broke me out of my stupor & I ran". As much as I liked the characters of C2, it just felt too "planned", too integrated, like they were writing a book & not enough was left for the characters to just grow over time & just experience (don't get me wrong, there was a bit of that - but C1 was basically all that). I think that's the magical D&D spark, you experience things which change your character.
I respect you a lot for being brave to share your thoughts about this on the internet. Everytime I engage with the CR community, specially if its something negative, I always get so much hatred that I just gave up interacting all together. And I agree with everything you said, though I consider myself a newish critter. I started binging C2 when the pandemic hit, and CR honestly saved my life. The love I have for C2 is unlike what I have for anything else in my life, but 95% of that feels gone in C3. You said that for you 'the moment' was halfway through C2, when the pandemic episodes started, but for me it was in the very beginning of C3, when some players came with EXU characters and I felt 'left out' for not having watched it. Then I realized how big and 'company-like' everything felt. The new set, the endless waves of merch that I could never afford , the fact that it wasnt live anymore ... The missing fan art during breaks ... C3 feels more worried about looking shiny and being consistent and inclusive and not offending its viewers than actually being an TTRPG between friends. Thats the sad thing about all of this: CR is not an RPG between friends anymore, its a weekly show of a multi million dollar brand. I think Ill always watch new episodes, and I try to take comfort in the fact that C1 and C2 and all of the one shots will always be there for me when I miss those old CR feelings. Everything ends.
Not to be rude but I'm kinda calling it bullshit,first you don't have to watch exu to understand the characters that came from exu Liam Ashley and Robbie made a great jon of introducing the characters for the people who didn't watched exu , second the art is not being shown because of the legal issues and also some part of the fandom were starting acusing Liam of being bias towards certain artists , "cr is not an RPG between friends anymore". Yes it is,you can still feel love that all of the cast have between each other how much they are geting to mąkę each other laugh ,smile and etc. Yes the set and everything have become more profesionall but that doesn't changed anything because all of this is still made from the cast love to each other and their fans
@@toamszkozak8822 Everything you said does not take away from my comment. It is what I feel, not you. Are my feelings towards C3 not valid? If you like it, great for you, but me and many people don't feel the same. Yes you don't have to watch EXU to understand Orym and Fearne, but they recycling their characters took A LOT away from the start of C3. That's just the truth.
Great video. I have a habit of following small creators and losing interest when their work becomes more refined and they get bigger. This seems like the same thing, it just feels less spontaneous. It's hard to maintain the passion when you go pro. It's something I've explored the edges of with my painting and gaming. If you have a hobby, just for fun, it helps you relax and gives you something fun to do in your free time. The second you're worried about making enough money EVERYTHING changes. It's not about fun anymore, it's about the customer and the algorithm. The same thing happened when I worked at a gaming store, I immediately played less of the games that made me want to work there. My current goal is to find a job that I like, but don't love, that has very little to do with my free time
i don't have the same feeling as you, I started watching it a little bit over a year ago. I started with Campaign 2 cuz campaign 1 episode 1 just didn't give me good vibes. I slowly but surely fell in love with Campaign 2 and finished it around 15 episodes into Campaign 3 (yes I finished Campaign 2 in 3ish months, I was a HS student with depression) then quickly finished the episodes of Campaign 3 and am still watching excitedly. I love CR so much, it along with Dimension 20 introduced me to DnD (even if I love CR more, aside from my celeb crush Brennan), but I can respect and even see where your coming from at times. but to me, idk, even as someone who despises capitalism as a system I can't help but get all nerdy and excited when some of my favorite internet people all sit together and make a really good story.
I'm not sure if it's the commercialization that's put me off. It's been more of the slow pace of the campaign so far as well as some of the characters I haven't really been into but I would say as soon as Chetney came in I really got hooked
Thank you for your video. I think a lot of C1 era fans probably feel the same way. For me, them turning into their own company did change things from a super casual game into a product and I could feel it. Moving to filming ahead of time also made things easier on the cast and opened up time for other projects, but also put distance between the audience and the cast that didn't feel like was there before. And so many other little changes, as well as Brian Foster moving on. He was US talking to the cast, and was so entertaining, it was hard to see him go an so quietly as well. It took a bit to get used to them evolving into a lifestyle rather than friends seeing each other outside work. I was afraid they were going to go extreme corporate, lose touch with fans, they'd have to force the fun instead of just having it, let go of Brian for some sinister reason that would leak, and other things that come with becoming a corporate entity. I even was waiting for actual scandal, because there was a rash of that ripping across some of my favorite TH-cam channels a couple years ago. Luckily my fears have not manifested. The fun and charm is still at the table, they still seem to be good friends, and their job now is doing stuff they love. I have allowed myself to relax into this new CR era more comfortably tho a part of me dreads when the cast will start to retire or be replaced. 😩 It's the other shoe that drops far too often in gaming and entertainment - if we're lucky and CR continues to love each other so much then it will happen because of the passage of time, and not scandal. However, on the other note. When it comes to their campaigns, I too was lost on C2. It started off strong, but the more they meandered across the landscape the less interested I was. I did something I never thought I'd do. I skipped episodes of what, to me, felt like filler and just caught up on the recap. I was pulled back in when they got to Jhorhas , and met Essek and his fascinating culture. Then they lost me again with side questing, pulled me back in with the political plots and finding Essek at the center of a scheme, and then lost me with side quests again. Then all of a sudden Lucien was alive and I was HOOKED back in like C1 all over again. Each character had blossomed into their full potential, plot threads were finally coming together, party characters finally were being honest with each other, friendships were now solidified, there was less meandering around aimlessly, and Essek, who had risen to becoming my favorite character, was seeing more and more 'screentime' in a redemption arc subplot to the whole end of the Campaign. He even became a flipping party member!!! I was absolutely amazed Matt ended up with an NPC in the main party by the end 😆 (and then forgot him through most of the resolution while wrapping things up probably because Matt was so focused on so many other things! 😅). That whole last arc was... Insane in a good way. And ended unexpectedly quickly, I remember. People loved C2 to pieces. I don't blame them and I welcome all new fans. Ultimately, I figure every party is going to feel different and C2 was a chance to play their cards close to their chest and really take their time with character development and exploring the world. I just got bored waiting around for things to happen and got frustrated with morally dubious decisions!! Compared to C1 where every arc had a clear, major bad guy to take down and high stakes and the party members were already all very close... Then we get to C3. Right off the bat, the cast is being open with backstory, sharing info, trying to see their goals through and helping each other accomplish things, and trying to do some good in the world. At least half of Vox Machina were aholes to all but their family and friends, let's be honest. 😆 C2 was very morally gray all around, except perhaps Cadeucus. But C3 is much more my flavor. There's tragedy and hardship, every party member is lost in some way, and there's a focus on helping each other and accepting each other that I vibe with. I'm invested in the cast, and the story is unfolding in a neat stacking up of coincidences and events and lore spills that I LOVE about CR and Matt's DMing. After all this and thinking about my relationship with CR since discovering it back during the height of the Briarwood arc... I think it was the combo of corporate status change and C2 being a morally gray (and gray all around cuz Wildemount is bleak dude) and wandering story that almost lost me as a fan for a while. However, at least for me it is not a matter of nostalgia so much as what vibes with me. And I guess by now I can accept that I just don't vibe with true neutral parties and letting them wander a out for half a campaign! 😆 I also can accept by now that it's alright if I leave for a while. I used to feel bad and beholden to watching every moment. But I don't have to and the recaps are really helpful. I'm happy to see recap/review videos for C3 which are fun and I love reactions to favorite moments. I haven't fallen out of love with CR, but it's also okay to move on if you're not into it. There are so many adventures out there to be witnessed or participate in. Go find em! But you're always welcome back!
I sorta feel the same way about the campaign 3? I was lucky enough to fall back in love with it because I do enjoy it myself. Granted I didn't watch Campaign 1 till much later, about 3 years after it ended.
I agree with your sentiment, although I started watching with C2. My personal feeling is that it's less about the production and productization and more about having to say goodbye to the characters or specific character you grew connected too. It doesn't feel the same because the characters are different, every time Laudna does something i''m expecting a bo "pop pop" somewhere, or when Imogen says something I'm expecting an "are you pooping?". The new characters are great, I especially love Chetney and Bertrum when he was around, but having to let go of the old ones sucks a bit, it's like saying goodbye to really good old friends. It's hard to transition to a new bestie if you're still wound up about the old one. Even during c2 (Spoiler warning if you haven't watched) when Knott transitioned to Veth I felt a little of that and lost a little focus on the show for a good 10-15 episodes. The cast are so good at getting you connected and invested in the characters that saying goodbye and changing it up really sucks.
I had a hard time letting go of the C2 characters. I've finally decided that I do like the C3 characters, but I'm still having a hard time with the setting and story.
I've been playing D&D since 1st Edition and stumbled on C1 by accident actually. And this is by far the best explanation of my own experience as well! Thanks dude! While I enjoyed the rawness of C1, C2 has been my favorite so far. It still felt like a bunch of goofy friends playing together, just with better equipment. Whereas EXU, EXU:C, and C3 felt like it is more of a job than an escape for the cast. Just my two cents, but I'm still a big fan and always find an idea or two that I can morph and incorporate into my own games.
Like any d&d game it's when they relax and get into the story that it's the best. I'm struggling with the same issues with the show. It's a job more than fun now.
For me I think it’s more about…The fact that there’s not a clear message. Actually the more and more I watched d20 the harder I found it to watch Critical Role. There’s several different reasons for this, some of if it is just me having ADHD tbh. Dimension 20 is more edited, which I sometimes dislike but it makes it easier to watch. Another huge thing is the length. It’s hard to pay attention to something for four hours straight. And it’s not every week I find myself having time to do so. And then I have a busy month and fuck now I have over 16 hours to catch up on. And it makes it daunting. I’m now 15 episodes behind and I have no idea when I’ll catch up. I think they would benefit from making their episodes a bit shorter, or not have an episode every week. And the campaigns are so long as well, four hours and over 200 episodes? Other than making it daunting it sometimes take away from the story of the sheer mass of it. If someone asks me what Fantasy High is about I can answer it easily, but with Critical Role there’s so many story arcs I barely know where to begin. It’s hard to sum them up, just because if the sheer size, and the fact that some characters do die and make room for others. If I want to give a genuine insight to what CR2 is about and what happens I’d need an hour. This also means that the themes aren’t as clear and not easily found. You forget what happens between episode 15 and 196 and if there’s parallels you don’t spot them easily. What is the theme of CR2? I’m not sure. What are they trying to say? Several things I’m sure but to put that into words… Whilst with dimension 20 and their more focused episodes, arcs and Brennan Lee Mulligan consistently showing what kind of story they’re telling it’s easier to spot those parallels and messages. I’ve never reflected about the commercialisation of CR before but I’m sure you’re right. But d20 whilst not as big also have certain same elements (but there we don’t see as a clear shift as in CR) But ultimately for me, although Critical Role is good and it has so many talented people in it. The story doesn’t leave me with an ending that makes me go “I see this is what they wanted to tell. This is the story and now it’s done. Here are the themes explored” And for me that makes it less memorable, and although it’s entertaining it means it will never become a favourite again. (EXU CALAMITY IS THE EXCEPTION TO THIS SINCE IT DOES HAVE CLEAR THEMES AND AN ENDING AND IS ACTUALLY THE BEST CAMPAIGN EVER)
Part of it is the adjustment after your first campaign. C1 was most of their first characters, which is a really special thing. It’s hard to figure out your second campaign, etc. It is a bit different, sure, but I still really enjoy it and laugh more than I do with almost any group.
Intresting, I also started with campaign 1, but by the time I started the journey it was already c3, so I had a lot of content to sprint through. I did love C1, but something about C2 was so special for me that I think that was the peak of Critical Role for me personally. The characters and party dynamics, the personalities, the small things were so much deeper for me than C1. The world the setting by Matt, the many paths available and maybe also a bit how much more balanced it was. For me C1 was in this sense, a lot more like a homegame. The characters were so ridiculously overpowered, to the point where I genuinely never felt afraid for the party. While it was still fun watching this crazy legend party take on a god and other things it still didnt feel as exciting as campaign 2. While not expecting a TPK every episode is nowhere near a bad thing, I just didnt feel that excited during fights, I knew that all of them were so op it's always gonna work out somehow (I find it amazing that one of the party still ended up dying permanently). So yeah for me C2 was the peak of CR as of now, C3 is also really good just a bit different, but C1 just wasn't something I fell in love with even though that's the first thing I watched. It's always fascinating for me how different we are as people, something you fell in love with and still miss to this day was something a little less amazing for me than everything else, and that's okay. :D
I personally am more of a fan of C2 and C3 and even ExU than C1. I think that has multiple reasons. Firstly, I am not really a fan of classic fantasy. I love the genre but I need there to be more than. C1 was very good but heavily relied on arc structure and character architypes. So basically C1 cartered the least to my personal fantasy tastes. With each new campaign Exandria as a setting and the characters get much more complex. The Aeor arc and EXU:Calamity are some of my favorite CR content ever. The next reason is that to me the players feel much more like a family than they ever did in C1. Not to say that wasn't the case in C1 but it was less frequent. And just seeing how they try to push their storytelling while still maintaining the original spark (in my opinion) has been great. They are not afraid of change. Each campaign is unique. C3 for example starting with more pronounced characters and taking its time fleshing out one city and a hand full of NPCs and following one big arc is a big departure from previous campaigns. And I love it. For me CR never was about them not knowing DnD very well. Or having fandom interaction. Or taping their episodes live. It is about these friends playing a game together every week and trying to create a complex world with interesting characters. All that are just my random musings. I totally get why not everyone feels the same. CR continuing to grow and embracing the change it brings with it means that not everyone will enjoy it. But somehow through all this change, I managed to love most of what they do with Exandria.
I fell in love with the show as you fell out of it it seems. I watched c1 after c2, and what I loved about c1 was that the characters felt like something my friends would come up with. The archetypes like Scanlan and Grog felt approachable and relatable. C2 characters were more complicated, but it did not stop me from loving Caduceus a lot. In c3 there's a Caduceus shaped hole that I miss.
Unfortunately, it seems like Taliesin won't create anything similar to him unless the group really needs it. Ashton, Molly and Percy all feel like variations of a common theme.
I had a similar experience. Campaign 2 just never hooked me. Campaign 2 the characters all just seemed almost like the same basic archetype. Campaign 3 has been better imo there’s more fun.
I feel your sentiments. I started watching a bit in campaign 2, I got up to around episode 59~ I think and haven’t found time to watch the end of it. I was never really interested in campaign 1 after a friend spoiled it on accident. But yea started watching campaign 3 every Thursday and it’s become something of a weekly ritual for me. As much as I may not be their biggest fan and I disagree with a lot of what they do and how they play, I still respect what they (and the community) have made together.
For what it's worth, I feel the exact same way you do. C1 was a genuine D&D game that happened to be put on Twitch. C2ish and C3 are professional entertainment meant at their core to be consumed by an audience. I think the kickstarter/the break from G&S and becoming their own entity were the moments when the show really crossed over to being a "show" as opposed to a "game" for me.
I started watching cr during Chroma conclave and I've never stopped loving it. I've had lulls here and there, but I've never lost my joy for it on the ride.
I am a relatively new Critter. I got into the show for Campaign 3 and fell in love with the characters. But my observation from a lot of long time fans seems to be that a lot of you seem to be just kinda burnt out after so many years. I saw a lot of campaign 1 and 2 before I considered myself a fan. I had friends who were fans and would tell me about it and I'd watch clips and other than the production getting sharper it really doesn't seem any different to me. The merch is an obvious addition and they clearly have roles within the company but none of that seems to matter when they start gaming. The glee they all have when Matt drops a lore bomb on them or the tension when a boss shows up seems just as real. One thing though is that Campaign 3 does feel more crafted. It isn't the simple matter of a random group of strangers meeting up and haplessly becoming heroes. This group, but Imogen especially, feels like they have a destiny and a story that is crafted around THEM rather than them reacting to the story. I can understand why that might feel comparatively a little off. But I would advise that people who feel this way should step away for a bit, take a break from CR and come back to it with fresh eyes later. I can tell you as someone who basically binged Campaign 3 via the podcast on spotify that you will find yourself ripping through at least 2 or 3 a week just on a commute to and from work and the story really does flow well in that manner. I'm caught up now... I ended up catching up the week episode 33 was released and it honestly felt like the longest wait for a new episode of something in my life.
That's really interesting, because I really felt that C3 missed some spice as well. stopped watching around EP25, but now just picked it up again, because i had to quarantine. Let's see what waits at 29 that makes it so exciting.
I came into CR in the middle of CR1 and I enjoyed it. It got me back into Playing, DMing, and ultimately reworking my own setting for 5E. That being said, I look at it for what it is. Story telling. I love the show, but like any campaign it can move very slowly at times. Hard core fans of long play campaigns dive into things like this because they enjoy the narrative and get to be a part of it. When they began to prerecord the sessions the tone changed. The story telling is still there but feeling like you are a part of the is now missing. I still watch the show but usually it is on the weekend after the Monday afternoon YT drop. I enjoy the cast interactions in season 3 but they haven’t reached the point that I have been grabbed by the narrative just yet. When the group begins to gel and the arc solidifies is when it becomes must see for me. Right now it’s like toddlers learning to walk, slow and clumsy but still fun watching the characters grow up if you know what I mean.
Personally I think the lack of it being live, and therefore the lack of the audience interaction makes it feel less intimate, and therefore some of the magic is gone. On more than one occasion chat would point things out to the players, perhaps that's part of why they distanced themselves in this way, but this in not a univariate issue. They're the creators and also doing things like Marisha being the creative director, and Travis being CEO. They're running a multimillion dollar business (talk about pressure) while also trying to "have fun" with the game (read: product) that fuels it all. I think honestly what they need to do is finish campaign 3, and let go of being the ones in front of the camera. Or rather, the original cast needs to start being guests on Exandria Unlimited. Calamity showed how amazing that format could be, and regardless of the differences Aabria is a fun DM to watch. Matt could write lore, help these other DMs and run a home game if the cast still wants to play (I'd wager a home game blog/retelling by Dani could be a way to turn it into revenue if they wanted) but they need a way to RELAX when playing D&D now. They're under pressure and we all feel it, in a game that the rest of us know as an escape from the pressure of our daily lives.
I didn’t come to CR until after C1 had ended, but before the beginning of C2. I was very invested in C2 and loved most of it. But I couldn’t watch more than a few episodes of C3. I watched the premiere live in the theater and was very excited about it, but it started slow and felt extremely contrived. I think what made me fall out of love with CR is the difference between C2 and C3. In C2 it felt like the cast was genuinely interested in figuring out the mysteries buried in each character’s backstory, but from the start of C3 it felt like they were all kind of in on it together; that it was no longer about their relationships, but about their relationship to the fans. I know I should finish C1, but I would rather rewatch C2 instead of watching C3.
@@castlecaster I obviously don’t know the truth, but I think the PC mystery box became formulaic after during C2. The fans expect it, so the cast knows that they have to deliver. Laudna’s sheer, unavoidable weirdness and FCGs whole concept felt like bright neon signs to this right from the start. There was a subtlety to the cast of C2 that was engaging and sympathetic. The cast of C3 feel too in on the joke.
I also fell off early in C3. I didn’t find the PCs relatable, and the interaction between the characters was feeling forced. I think that happens a lot in DnD in general. I still love the team though, and watch their other content. Exu Calamity was amazing.
I think what's really neat, is that there *are* so many different options. My introduction to CR was Candela Obscura (Vassel, Needle) and I was immediately hooked. I tried stepping into C1 (after doing non-story-spoilering research) and had no interest in wading through thirty some odd seasions before I could feel relaxed. I watched the two episodes before the character went their own way in game, and the episodes after had a much better dynamic/atmosphere...but I still felt disconnected from the story and characters. I knew basic details, but it's not really the same. Switching to C2 made perfect sense, and it was magical to me. I loved the setting, characters, and themes. C2 helped me in so many ways. And most recently, ExU: Calamity captured my heart in an entirely different way. I hope that I find the right moment to give C1 another try, and I know that even though it hasn't resonated with me, I am still grateful and happy for how much it has meant to so many others. I've decided to wait a while before starting C3, because I want to have the same 'blank slate, zero expectations" that I did with C2. I have a lot of appreciation for just how much the CR folks have shared through the years, and I'm incredibly grateful that I keep discovering new stories. ExU: Calamity was my *introduction* to Brennan, and I started D20 Crown of Candy. I fully understand having a lot of emotional attachment to these characters, and I know I'm not in a place where I can let go of the MN enough to fully welcome C3. And that's OK. There will be a time when I'm not only ready, but excited to meet BH. It's incredible that people watch the sessions live, and I can understand how that probably adds to the sense if community, but maybe it also raises the stakes for the audience in a potentially negative way? It baffles me how much negativity gets launched at the humans portraying fictional characters...I'm just glad they all still seem to love what they're doing, because I really look forward to discovering more stories.
I feel that the main difference between campaign 1 and the later 2 was that campaign 1 was much more simplistic. The villains were comic book loud. Meaning they were dramatic, noticeable, and clearly evil mostly. This made it easier for the audience to track. The later campaigns have a lot more nuance and uncertainty. There were a lot of times where the journey of the characters and their motivations became very muddy. However I don't think that the business element changed the style. They started very generic when they first started playing together as most people do when playing with a new group. From there they seem to have found their preferred style of playing together. If the difference is putting up a bit of a professional wall between them and their fandom. Well, that was necessary for mental health given toxic members of the fandom. For me I started watching round Molly's death in campaign 2 and if I had started in campaign 1 I probably wouldn't have kept watching. It's a good thing to be able to look at something you have been a fan of and realise "This property has moved away from my interest and that's fine. I don't have to stay a fan of the new stuff just because I was a fan of their previous stuff" rather than getting angry at them changing over time or trying to pretend it's still the same.
I get what you’re saying about the commercialization of the show and how they’re a full on company with a ton of moving parts now and it kills the vibes of the chill DND night vibes, but I got into the show literally a few episodes after they came back from that Covid break and then spent the next 6 months or so watching the beginning of campaign 2 while watching the newest streams as they came out. So as I got maybe 2 episodes a week on average downed on my path to catching up, I was also straight up spoiling shit for myself watching the latest streams as they moved into the Aeor arc. And honestly I fucking loved it. There’s an aspect of the Covid compliant setup that I miss because I think they were just so happy to be able to spend that time together that it made Covid more tolerable for me too. Some of my favorite moments are from that time and in a way I miss it. But for C3 something definitely feels off. I feel like they wanted to go more colorful and crazy with their characters and their class builds which felt refreshing at the tail end of 2021, but narratively it seemed harder to imagine this group sticking together, so as a show that people watch it had a suspension of disbelief that took longer to take hold. I think it’ll continue to get better, but I think Matt had a hell of a job in trying to find a way to make this group care about each other and relate to each other more through the scenarios they go through and I think he’s doing a damn fine job of it. C3 has a group that is endearing, but not immediately endearing to each other (save for specific small combos like Fearne, Dorian + Orym and Imogen and Laudna) and C1 started years after the group chemistry had been established and C2 had a bunch of damaged misfits running from the law and who they were tired of being so that was easy to fall in love with. But benefit of the doubt doesn’t fix the problem of it not having that same quality. I do have a wild prediction though. This is still a profitable and successful company, so if they make it out of C3 in a similar state, enough to justify one more campaign with the OG crew for a good handful of years, I have no doubt that C4 would be some soulful and incredible shit. They’re following a good pattern of 1) following tropes and nailing them, to 2) getting serious and having characters that like each other more than the world around them, to 3) the definition of “variety is the spice of life” to the point that thematic narrative is almost impossible to create or care about, to 4) the true maturity round, a deeply heartfelt character with the brevity to express it and carry on the adventure and story threads that beat so strongly like the atriums of a heart that you can’t help but watch even as they all fall apart and lose each other. I guessed Taleisins next character would be a barbarian so this is my next guess. A little ambitious maybe, but I’m willing to bet on it
S3 E29 and on really shifted the campaign and made it super interesting this season. I didn't learn about Critical Role until around S2 E40 when I'd just come back to D&D after having not played for 20 years. I still love the show but I don't faithfully watch it live anymore and tend to listen to it in the background when I'm working...except when there's good combat or RPing that draws my sole attention
I started watching CR somewhere in C2 and it was magical. I watched C1 and I loved it even more. Idk what it is with C3 but I can't really get into it no matter how much I want to feel the magic again. I am still watching, it's still good but it feels different and I can't figure out why.
To be fair the beginning of C1 is pretty rough lol. Tons of tech issues and player that becomes a problem. But even with that aside, everyone has their own taste. Glad you're enjoying C3!
I started watching in mid C2, and the difference at the table is notable. C3 feels like it's in service to the company. No doubt, this is still their game and at the end of the day the players and Matt own the company, but I wouldn't be surprised about is if they had guidelines about story and pacing the game had to fall into for time but also viewer retention. C1 felt like a home game livestreamed, C2 felt like a high budget home game, but C3 (to me) feels like a production...
I felt the same. Especially at the tail end of Campaign 2.It started to feel like a business. Which it was. But after Campaign 3 started and Chetney came into the group, it changed for me. The group dynamic (which is a major point in Critical Role, them being friends and just playing) seemed to change. Its not quite there yet but I feel like they started to play just as friends again. Yes, the business side is there as well and that will not go away but the casual atmosphere seems to be returning. At least, for me. Also, I love the characters in Campaign 3 so theres that.
I started watching CR in S2 after not wanting to ever watch any DnD shows. I got hooked and religiously watched it through completion. I tried to go back to S1 and just wasn't able to get through those early episodes, and when S3 dropped I had no interest at all. I have thought that a lot of my lack of interest in S3 revolves around not really liking any of the characters (in S2 it was just Beau and Molly I disliked at the start). But my wife watched all of Dungeons and Daddies and loved it, but tried S2 of CR and said she didn't like it because it felt too professional. So maybe that is echoing what you are saying and what I was feeling about S3 too.
I do agree with this. As time went on, lot of things Matt said and talked about. The cast said and did in the show. Felt like they were all shilling for their upcoming book set in that world.
So Basically we're talking about a very common feeling. "It was better back in those days" It's common, normal and shouldn't be taken badly. I love the way they're evolving, I'll stick around for longer :D. I do agree on C2 the latter half. The whole Lucian plot was cool all the way until the final fight. I didn't feel it very well.
Finally somebody said it. I feel exactly the same way. I discovered CR when I happened across the first one shot Matt did with Stephen Colbert. I had no IDEA D&D was so cool. Naturally I started watching during C2 and I was not disappointed. Then EU happened which meant the addition of new players and a new DM. Growth in anything is inivitable I suppose and yet it removes the stuff we love. You did a good job explaining what those things are. The lousy sound system, Sam's shirts and his drinking vessels, the set changes even the NPC's were imperfect. Thanks to a gorgeous set, new players and DM's CR has grown up. That's a good thjng and yet...
I think I found CR when the 1st trailer for the Vox Machina show dropped. Which totally love. but I have no time to spend 5 6 hours on a meandering plot. But I love the calamity 4 parter where I found BLM and his crew of Dimention 20. Though when I need a good laugh I go to EXU and watch Aabria trying to control those bumbling idiots.
This is a cery real feeling. I think it's important that we kinda Acknowlege that. I enjoy cr abt as much as i enjoy d20, which is Also highly produced and edited. Tbh i think the cast probably need time to find their feet again bc it Has changed a Ton. C2 is my favourite campaign even tho i feel the same. I think in the end it has the characters and lore elements i enjoy the most and... honestly it was once things from earlier campaigns started to get tied into the larger narrative of c3 that i started to get invested again. Idk if it's pure nostalgia or if i just enjoy that lore More. But it us what it is. Personally i find this feeling of the honeymoon pgase ending w cr to be very refreshing and the fandom is , it turns out, still a lot if fun (when it's not all ship wars lmaoo) It's.. super easy to get burnt out from this show. The creators are doing So Many Things to appeal yo a wider audience and honestly, i can't keep up w it all anymore. We'll see where they take the bussiness side of things but like.. ye. I feel the same. The show is what it is and i can enjoy it for that still. It might even be in everyone's best interest to adopt some of that emotional distance bc the parasocial spect of "these are a group of friends that i watch play more than i see my actual friends and family".. rly wasn't healthy ever 😂😂😂
The big change that make me stop watching is even simpler: They stopped playing live. The show as it stands feels both over produced, and under produced. Why stick with the static 3 cam setup that has each cast member take up such a small portion of the frame if it's no longer live? Just about every fan clip from the show takes the time to edit between the cast to show the acting and facial expressions in full frame. Shows like Dimension 20 have multi camera editing woven in to focus on each player, and insert shots for character art and maps. If CR wanted to abandon the live format, why invest so much in their battle maps, miniatures, set dressings, and backgrounds when they are barley even on screen? Why is there a 15 min break in the middle if they can just cut forward? Its so weird to me that they want it to "feel like a live show" when it isn't. It just makes it feel lifeless.
They’ve used the same format since the beginning…. How does them not being live matter or why should it effect how they’ve run the show for soo many years. What a selfishly stupid opinion.
@@ikache1038 Ah the most elegant response, contradict yourself and call the person stupid instead of adding anything to the conversation. Great job 🎉🎉🎉
I felt this after Season 1 i dont think was about the work said of things but i think its more about pace last chapter of season 2 felt like forever to end and it was, for me, not fullfeeling but i hope s3 gets better whit time, also the not live part its also rele hard its missing the vivo magic.... now you are not "PART OF THE TABLE" you are just watching forme a side... its not the same.... but its life
Life’s too short. And CR demands a lot of your time. I’m fading away on it too. It feels too corporate now. It stopped feeling like a bunch of friends playing, and started feeling like a company. And down the line, more like company who is just milking their fans for money and fame while giving them less quality.
As someone who got into CR cus of the TLOVM animated series, I see it as more of a "it's hot so you want it cold, and when its cold you want hot" situation. What I mean is that since it's so polished now ppl are inevitably gonna miss the gritty, informal beginnings, but DURING those beginnings I'm sure ppl wanted things to be more POLISHED and have more production, hence the animated series. These things are unavoidable at this point. Big props to the CR cast for still being able to maintain that fun-loving energy no matter the changes. They love playing and we will always love watching them play
Honestly I had a feeling that campaign 3 was losing me as well. However, the last episode that came out involved a major dramatic shift, so if a number of things stay permanent after this last eppy, I'll be invested again
Same here if they don't revert the thing, or even better use it as a jumping off point to something more exciting I'll be happy. If Matt chickens out then eeeeeh
I think that will depend on a lot of factors, like if their products gain popularity outside their immediate fanbase. Hard to say, but the stream doesn't really show much sign of serious decline yet. At least not dangerous levels of it.
I've for the most part been hooked right back in since 29. Last week's I thought was pretty boring, but this most recent episode I was on the edge of my seat the entire time
Late to the party on this post, maybe subconsciously I'm trying to convince myself to get back into critical role but I believe we fell off a friend of mine and I around episode 25 of campaign three. Completely agree with all of your sentiments about them becoming a corporation and losing that homespun homemade feel, I'm sure they're all very nice to people in their social circles and they all probably are very altruistic. I couldn't help but feel a bit misled by their becoming a big corporation, not that I disagree with it but I think my feeling was when they raised the money for their first season of VM. I personally believe that money was already in place, because of the deal they made with Amazon and they just didn't tell the wider public until the official announcement. I do believe they took the money that was raised from fans and reinvested into the business. But in truth, after watching all of Campaign 2 and some of Campaign 1, which I will not do due to the OA scandal, after missing one episode of Campaign 3. After being a regular watcher for almost 4 years, I felt no need to rush back. Also, I had a very negative experience as a member of their official fan community a couple years ago, still not something I like remembering but that's part of it I believe. Altogether I think the cast is exceptionally talented, but it has become less about playing the game, than content generation which makes me sad. I will keep the books and other things that I bought for sure because they helped reignite my creativity in a small way, but I no longer watch critical roles just because I think they left my kind of fan behind.
I honestly could never really get into Campaign 1 but I never felt that way about 2 and even 3. C1 kind of just picks up with a group of really established characters with dynamics that have already been laid out over years of play behind closed doors. Yeah plenty of people got behind that but I couldn't really. It felt like joining in on a friend group with established history to me. Campaign 2 I really got to go along for the ride with them, watch their dynamics grow, establish relationships between characters as they get to know each other and watch as the story impacts them and the characters as it unfolds. Campaign 3 is sort of the same way but I'm not as invested as I was Campaign 2. C2 kind of dropped the backstory hooks and mystery real early. C3 feels slower with the things that hooked me from C2 not dropping in a way that really captivates me. Episode 33 has really changed that for me though. I want to see how the tragedy effects everyone involved and I'm more interested and invested than I have been the entire Campaign so far.
I stopped listening during C2, I used to listen to it podcast style. A lot of “I move here” and “ooo dwarven forge the map looks so cool!” Like I can’t see it. I like the descriptions and math.
Hot take maybe, but I loved C1, had trouble liking C2 for the first 3rd but then I think the second half is their BEST episodes so far, and C3 is really cool but I need time to start caring for those new characters.
The thing I have thought about with C2 is that...well it was hard. It was in the middle of a pandemic and you had a group of people doing some terrible things and really screwing everyone over while calling themselves the good guys. That's not really the kind of thing I wanted at the time. C2 was just less enjoyable. Now C3 feels a lot more like C1 and I am enjoying it more.
so... I honestly burnt out during campaign 2 I was really enjoying it for a while but at a certain point I started finding it harder and harder to remain invested despite still loving the cast and characters eventually I think I figured out what the problem was for me, it didn't feel focused in C1 (after the first 30 messy episodes) there was always something they were doing or moving towards based off of current events or their history in the world it never felt aimless, they were always doing things and you knew why and the little breaks between arcs felt like the characters letting off steam but in C2 after a certain point it felt like they didn't know what too do there were so many plot hooks and things to look into but none of them felt urgent or necessary and it felt like the characters were just muddling along and I think that feeling is what made me move away from the show, and why I enjoyed things like calamity and downfall so much things felt meaningful, like they were happening for a reason and not like I was watching people figure out what they wanted to do in real time
I think discovering other actual play shows has lessened my “obsession” with CR. Not sure there’s a reason I can point to in CR’s games themselves. MAYBE it feels a little less zany than it once did/compared to others but I think my memory there is biased and jumbled so not reliable. Its a good thing that there are other creators to fall in love with and different actual plays styles to match my current mood as a consumer of media. CR isnt gonna leave my life, it still has my twitch prime subscription, but rn its not my priority. Current other actual plays I watch/listen to are NADDPod, Dimension20, and TapleTopNotch.
I watched part of C1, then stopped just before Orion left the show. I came back and started again with C2, I was able to binge watch up to something like episode 80, and I really enjoyed it. I feel like near the end of C2 things started getting more scripted. I'm having a hard time getting through C3 episodes. Right now I'm stuck on E25. I had a good time with Calamity, though.
I started with C2 and it's still going to be my favorite campaign. C1 is amazing and has a great overall story (better than C2), but I really fell in love with the Mighty Nein. And with C3 I have a couple problems, but the past 10 episodes were amazing. I think that Critical Role is the best of the best content that you can watch on the internet.
This i happening to me in C3.. i loved every episode up until Robbie left.. then its like i have no feelings about the show anymore i lose focus i am not listening.. its not Robbie per say but the vibes were different up until he left.
The reason im struggling massively with it now, in campaign 3, is that it doesnt feel like dnd anymore. its a soap opera with 90% of the session being melodramatic level dialogue. like im getting sickj of hearing imogen drone on and on about how she feels for an hour. like an abundance of movement, and development, and things happening that drive character growth and interactions not this wierd "lets focus entirely on our characters feelings for an hour" while nothing happens.
I mean I think it's kind of just bound to happen. Look at how many TV shows get old after a spell. And that's just half an hour or an hour a week. This is a minimal of 3 hours and in some early episodes as many as 6. At a certain point things aren't going to resonate the same anymore. You are going to pick up on tropes. And you are going to start to get a feel of what and how things are going to play out. Sam's characters always kind of seem like a joke but always have something big behind them. So is it shocking anymore when that's revealed? Nope. You are just kind of waiting for it now. That's one example but those examples are through the entire show. The occasional guest star can help bring in interest for sure. But if they are going to continue to have the same cast year after year after year the chances for something surprising to happen with a characters development kind of goes out the window. Personally I think they should consider rotating cast members out. Maybe even do to campaigns so all the cast members can still be playing but have them interacting with some fresh blood in each group. I think that would go a ways to breathing some new life into the series.
On my personal opinion l think that's a bad idea to be honest , l love the dynamics between the group since the beginning and it's not predictable especially whith Sam and Travis, l was so surprised when chetny appeared it was a really good surprise some were "maybe" predictable but for the most part it was a surprise for me , also trust me there's gonna be a riot in the community if someone leaves the table and breaks the whole dynamic it happened initially whith robbie
Personally, I think part of the reason I've fallen out of love is that it feels so far removed from the fans now. Especially with no longer being live, no longer airing shows like Talks or the plethora of variety shows they produced, and a general feeling of things being a lot more planned than they were before. I loved seeing beautiful and wacky fanart every week, submitting questions with the hope that they might be read, and having a tight-knit community that was so supportive of one another. Now toxic fans make Twitter and twitch chat unbearable, and there is little to no interaction with the fans at all. Also, it feels waaaaaay too produced. Like they're forcing themselves to keep up their typical antics when they aren't in-character (for the little bit that we see out of character), overly steering the plot and character development, and pushing out more and more merch week after week. It feels less like a dnd campaign and more like a TV show that just happens to be played out through dnd. At first I thought it was just the growing pains of a budding company making the transition from hobby to career, but it's continuous. I think this is the best way that they have found to turn their downtime fun into a profitable business. It's less fun for the consumer, less fun for the producers, but more money for investors and partners and projects.
I agree with you about it not being live, and I miss the feeling at the table from C1. Maybe they just lerned how to play D&D very well and that took away some of that magic. In C2 we still got Talks with Brian, and you could feel that goofy fucking around with friends feeling from C1. Now we only have C3 and i dont even remember what the new talks is called. Nothing of this is bad, the C3 is still a good show. But for me it's a podcast now. A good fun story, like a audio book. Or maybe I lost the magic, who knows. :P I run my own homebrew world with my best friends who never played before. There I find that magic.
As someone who found cr halfway through c2, I'd say most of your discomfort is nostolgia factor. The game still feels not too different from a home game. People leave for bathroom breaks, look at their phones, talk over each other, etc. Nice and polished and done by pros maybe, but who doesnt improve afyer 8 years? It took me nearly 3 times as long to finish c1 because it just seemed so boring and mundane character wise after watching c2.
I started in Campaign 2, but went back and rewatched C1 when they went on haitus and totally agree that it was soo much richer with characters and world interactions. I'm one of the few people I know who are still watching, and this is my favorite Campaign so far! But I'm also in it for the Lore and World, not so much the characters, which I know is what most poeple are there for, and in that regard there is definitely something missing that used to be the heart of it.
Yep. Pretty much the same here. I lost interest and stopped watching part way through the 2nd campaign. I just couldn't get into the characters and story like I did with the 1st campaign. I tried again briefly when the 3rd campaign started, but once again, the characters didn't speak to me. Not begrudging anyone that disagrees, just don't find the show appealing anymore myself.
I started on C2 so it's the one I love the most. I tried watching C1 but it just feels too outdated in a weird way. I've never been bothered by them becoming more "Corporate" or professional, it's uplifting if anything. Also people saying it's because they're woke now or whatever...please shut up. That said C3 is having a hard time getting my attention. The last couple of episodes in the Bassuras arc have been great, but there's something about the team dynamic that isn't clicking for me. It just feels like none of the characters are all that great aside from a couple. (Laudna and Dorian for me are the best) Maybe they're leaning a little to hard into comedy, maybe the characters of C2 just mixed much better but I haven't given up on C3 at all really, if we get a C4 with the OG cast I'd still be excited. One thing I have noticed on myself and many on this comment section. Most of us seem to love the campaign in which we started watching more than any others so keep that in mind when you're watching C3 and feel a little left out.
I was the same; watching since the Geek&Sundry days, watching religiously every Thursday, even managed to make it to a live show. The feel is decidedly different now than it was and that's 100% because they've viewed this campaign as a product. What bothered me the most was how the group's momentum completely died while forcing themselves to decide on a group name. It was a painfully obvious meta-referential moment that dragged on for far too many episodes because they HAD to get the copyright first before the game could really "begin". Vox Machina and the Mighty Nein came organically, both of them coming from strong in-universe reasoning and a sincere love for the game they were sharing in as it grew into something more. On top of just feeling slap-dash, Bell's Hells is grammatically awkward with a weak justification. It's supposedly "honoring" a literal joke character that lived far longer than he was planned for, yet the group only knew him for a day or two? Having the main game be rebranded with a subtitle similar to EXU would've allowed for a period of time to really dig in and understand how they would want to brand this properly. It all just evokes the feeling that they're more removed from this than previous campaigns, despite the genuine fun they're clearly having at the table. For reference, the M9 were officially named in episode 8 with little resistance or debate, yet it wasn't until episode 14 that the BH were first named and even then it felt forced and just kind of....'eh'. This isn't the only example (as certain interactions in the most recent episodes show), it's just the most obviously transparent that they're viewing this campaign as a flagship product for the company. They claimed it would be different during marketing but I'm still waiting to see what that means. If it's a shorter total length then maybe a rewatch will help re-contextualize earlier parts and improve the campaign's overall standing. The limited side series could have been prepping the audience for shorter games as well, but who knows. I still passively watch when I can but I feel no loss if I miss an episode or two.
Great take on the names. The first two were "organic" and invested. The third was silly and forced. They should have been patient and let the name come organically, even if that meant waiting for awhile. I find the show fun to watch every so often, but no longer care about it as i once did. Again, great take on the situation.
For me it’s the stories not being as coherent. Campaign one felt like several seasons of a single show campaign to each arc was so different going from country travel to ships and pirates to war story and so on. It feels not as conjoined.
There has been a shift in how Matt writes his adventures to focus more on emotion, but it has really hurt the story structure. Before in CR1 and a lot of CR2, a PCs "backstory quest" would be resolved by the end of the arc that focused on them. Like Percy and the Briarwoods. But now EVERY quest is backstory quest, so they can't resolve by the end of the arc, otherwise there would be no reason for that character to stay in the story. SPOILERS: (Which is basically what happened with Nott/Vex in C2. It got really hard to keep her character in the story once she got changed and got her family back.) What this has resulted in is no emotional through line. We don't know which character's story to focus on because at any moment their arc will be halted, with no resolution, to focus on someone else.
@@level3bard630 my only thought with veth was that she got a new story after changing she had to figure out how to get her family back and how to have a “work/life balance” with being an adventure and a mom. Exactly you hit my problem with it. That distractions are constant now. They are on a mission to capture a guy for there patron and now they have just ducked out of town for a full day because someone’s backstory popped up. Now he could have gotten away while they dealt with this side mission that could have been it’s own full thing if it happened at another time.
i personally liked critical role for the world building, the comedy and the interactions between players. unfortunately, in campaign 2: the interactions and character moments felt unnatural, like they were scripted (for example characters would be doing the dumbest thing possible even tho they should know about the consequences). the comedy became stale rather quick as it boiled down to "let's insult Fjord's (or any white man's for that matter) masculinity" until basically the end of the campaign. world building took a major hit too because, SOMEHOW, every straight white male in a position of power was either dumb, evil or both, all major factions were ruled by "strong independent women that need no man" (or any other LGBT member). in all honesty i didn't even bother starting C3 (nor i watched the "the mighty Nein reunited" specials) and i won't be picking up anything else
The show is different from what you fell in love with but it is just a preference. I fell in love during campaign 2 and campaign 1 felt inferior to me. But I'm much less infested now in C3. Maybe we have changed and don't have te interest for 100+ ep 4,5h show anyone?
For me, I never could get into it. And I could never adequately describe why. That zoning out and missing important details thing just kept happening. I also felt like the first episode just kinda launched straight into the middle of whatever was going on at the time. And it was difficult to keep track of it all. I'm glad people enjoy it, I'm glad its brought more people to D&D, but I never got hooked the way so many others did. I thought Vox Machina was gonna be my "in" but it was just too vulgar for my personal tastes. So I never finished that either. 🤷
in general eveyrthing that is related WOTC , i tend to go with a very long stick, also whith what what happened in the years i tend to say alsmot everything have touched woke idealogy i have nothing against same sex relation, but damned the bullshiet propangada is enough. Seriously what if one day we start and hetero white men and white woman parade ... i'm sure the leftist politics will start to cry. . .
I haven't watched Critical Role. My timezone isn't too suitable for watching it live, and if I'm watching VODs I'd rather start from the beginning and go through the whole backlog - except the CR backlog is just daunting, so I haven't. In fact, I haven't watched many DnD playthroughs. I've watched the first 6 or 7 instances of the original Acq Inc, and the first season of Dimension 20, but I fell off both wagons. Acq Inc I think mostly because Wheaton left, later compounded by Perkins leaving. It's not that I dislike Jeremy Crawford, but Chris Perkins is Chris Perkins, you know? D20 I think lost me with some of the whimsical scenarios. I didn't particularly like the one with the evil party, despite the spectacular cast, and the unsleeping city bored me pretty fast. I don't really know why, I mean, Brennan is Brennan is Brennan, but there's something in those shows that doesn't click for me.
I started with that vox machina battle royal in december 2017 and then there was Campaign 2. That BR was kind of... meh but okish enough. Campaign 2 got me hooked. There were fun chars, nott and caleb were a dreamteam. Nott and jester were a dreamteam. Fjord was the de facto leader and put everyone in the spotlight. the other chars... you could just forget... sorry, marisha, sorry ashley, sorry taliesin... your chars are boring AF and then we have campaign 3... and the only interesting and funny character is from travis. FCG is kind of interesting... but Nott was better fearne, imogen and laudna... you could just as well write them out and miss nothing. same goes for ashton... also campaign 2 had recurring characters like Shikasta or that one time SPURT came into the game. damn i still love to watch those mini sketches other artists draw about those incidents... like the one with the snapping turtle, or in that temple... campaign 3.... i can only watch about 20 to 30 minutes before deciding i have better things to do...
the problem is its not a normal dnd game anymore. it's so theatric that it seems like a transcript to a tv show. ( if that makes sense ). it's not relatable anymore.. what makes dnd fun is the chaotic nature of the game. you can do what ever you want and shape the story to the personalities of the players. CR is the opposite now. the Over all story and plot comes first.
I got knocked off my feet for a few weeks and needed something to listen to, and that was the same time CR C2 started Had never heard about CR, but was also just getting into playing D&D at the time I haven’t seen all of C1, but have watched the last 1/3rd, but C2 had so much character to it C3 seems so thought out, nearly scripted, that it’s not keeping my focus as much as C2 did in its entirety
Pertaining to C3. Annoying, unserious characters, railroading, lack of emotional connection between the characters and between the plot. Then, the meandering, boring plot. They were bored and so was I. The also tell-tale "modern" topics and themes injected into the characters and story fortold a decline in quality way before it showed itself.
What is always in the back of my head is they have become a company making ALOT of money from many sources… yet in response we get less or sub par content (no live shows, taking a week off are examples) compared to before. Because of that knowledge while I watch I feel much more discounted from it. Who cares how nice a game room is, the games with them at 3 plastic tables was just as entertaining if not more.
Small update. I am, for the most part, loving the more recent episodes of CR. Not sure if I'm in love with it like I used to be, and its still not the same, but I'm appreciating it more for what it has become.
What are your thoughts on what happened in ep 33? And your thoughts on the fandom going nuts over the Episode?
@@nickh3205 *SPOILERS FOR C3 E33!*
I think the complaints about how the fight was unwinnable are completely unfounded. The players panicked after a bad first round and didn't play tactically. Half ran, half fought and tbey still got Otohan down to what I interpreted as less than half hp.
It was a tough fight for sure, but they were rolling pretty bad, and Matt was playing smart whereas the players weren't.
I think folks are upset about the deaths, and need somewhere to direct those emotions. Unfortunately Matt became the target.
Overall I thought it was a great episode, the first one in a long time where I was completely wrapped up in it, but I love stories with high tension, high stakes, and deeply peraonal consequences. That's not everyone's cup of tea.
I've loved the first 10 episodes of c3 but when it comes to the next 13 it was .... idk it felt off.
@@castlecaster Matt even gave them an npc that gets better a.c. the more attacks a creature has. And they didn't use that npc. Ok that player choice. But like you said they could have ran player choice they could have dived on otohan.
I feel like the major change no one is talking about. the party group dynamic is not the same. In C1 the party, when we were introduced to them, were friends. No one had the subtle distrust that is in C3 or the aimlessness in C2 that came from early party death post the revenge arc. This is no fault of any of the cast but it is a dramatic change in how the parties are presented and thus perceived.
I give this just as an example: In my games I tell every one in session 0 make sure your pc has a reason to go adventuring, but also why they are with this group of teammates. they then work together to come up with good reasons. Our games seem to be a bit more focused because of this and it works well for them.
If by ‘early character death’ in season 2 you’re talking about Molly, that was scripted. Taliesin stopped enjoying playing the character and they decided to kill him off rather than retire for max drama. Mercer later brought him back as the BBGE, which was a genius idea but Molly’s original death wasn’t random or decided by a dice roll - it was planned and executed according to that plan.
I think this is representative of a split in the community between older and newer Critters. You're absolutely right, the show has changed since Chroma Conclave, but those of us who joined in the middle of Campaign 2 fell in love with the show's current vibe. For me, Campaign 1 is "that stuff they used to do way back when" and doesn't hold the same nostalgic power over me that it does for you and other senior Critters.
I appreciate that you presented this clearly and respectfully. I'm deeply in love with Critical Role and genuinely enjoyed your video.
Thank you! Glad you're enjoying CR!
I just realized I’m a “senior critter” and I’m not sure how I feel about that.
It's just completely boring to me. It feels like just a TV show now and let's be honest it's not that great of a TV show.
I also started with C2 and I'm loving everything that's going on rn with C3 and stuff like EXU: Calamity.
But did you go back and watch C1? It was Pure DnD at it's Best! Half the time they were just f*ckin around making up bs like the Go-Fi-Be-Po and Scanlan's Meatman empire XD
@@billabonggolkpr I find it a pretty cool tv show.
I feel like this is every game, every show, everything I have been a fan of the past many, many years of my life. It is normal to be heavily invested in things and get a bit burnt out or lose interest and feel nostalgic for "the old days". While no doubt that game or show has changed it is probably mostly you.
That desire to keep watching, that something is missing, sunk cost fallacy perhaps? Not much media out there with a higher time investment than Critical Role C1 and C2.
Sunk cost is definitely a part of it!
I started with C1, and definitely felt this when moving onto C2. It took me a while to get used to how... professional (?) it felt. C1 felt so much more genuine to me, while C2 had more of a "polished" vibe to it, and it wasn't necessarily a good thing for me.
Eventually, I decided to just watch the show with an open mind and take it as it came basically, and fell in love with it again.
With C3, maybe because I've already gone through a "this feels more like a production" (from C1 to C2) I immediately fell in love with it. It's clear that the cast went all out when creating their characters, they feel fleshed out and fresh, not as archetypical as C1 (which I had no problem with, btw) but not as dark and sketchy as early C2.
All in all, I think with each campaign they offer a new flavor, and I've been enjoying C3 do far
Well, it's like a band's third album: C1 was a mostly-underground debut, C2 is them getting signed to a major label who does pressure them to tone down the scruff a little bit, the third album aka C3 is them trying to please the label execs therefore it's more of the same but with even less risks (and having experimented a bit with two EP named Exandria).
Love this analogy
hmm, I really can't agree, Campaign 2 was incredible - but Campaign 3 is probably some of my favorite stuff yet. I could BARELY get through Campaign 1
The majority of these comments smack of something I see in a lot of older critters whose love has faded, and that is nostalgia. No shade on that front, but when people bagged on C2 as not having the same magic as C1 and I went back to watch C1 it was a nightmare. I have a lot of respect for the C1 stuff that makes it into a highlight reel, and the counterspell moment is one of the greatest things in actual play history, but not having been there at the time reveals it as less than stellar overall. And it's not like I don't understand that feeling, but it seems obvious from someone who started watching a good deal into C2 that any love lost has little to do with some quality drop.
I am...very critical (heh) of a lot of decisions made by the crew both outside and inside the game, but it is pretty clear to me that the players still enjoy other as much as they did before, and now by harnessing their popularity they don't have to put the game aside at random moments to deal with work obligations as the company is a lot of their work. And while I think judging the quality of something by it's popularity is often a mistake, the increased popularity for a show with the insane buy in of critical role does speak to something working.
Lastly, in terms of not being live and having no audience interaction...have you seen the way some critters and anticritters talk about and to the crew? I would want to be cut off from that too. Mercer has stated that more than once he has been tempted to cancel the show and they would just keep playing on their own, and I for one believe him, though that seems less likely given the money issue now (a hazard of those decisions).
I also want to say I don't think you've said anything wrong, I think your exploration was quite earnest and even handed, I just see this discourse a lot and this comment section is a good example.
I sincerely hope that none of them actually read comments on Social media or the stream. Especially now that they have a staff and crew to handle that sort of thing for them if they need to. We're lucky guests who are able to view a private game between friends. I have no doubt that C3 in particular has been crafted to be an epic that is quite public pleasing, but it's still just their game and they should feel that way as much as possible and not feel like they are subjects in a play.
I personally started with C2 and like C1 more though there was a time I liked both equally
This is an interesting video to me. I just got into Critical Role within the last year. When they started EXU and then Campaign 3. I’ve never gone through the first two campaigns because there is so much content. But the point you bring up about how commercialized things are now. Was something I noticed right way when I first watched especially with campaign 3.
Tbh since CR had so many loyal fans, I assumed that was part of the appeal. Even though I’m probably never going to buy merch or anything like that.
You nailed my feelings and thoughts .... as in an almost "you got in my head and made a video of it." I'm really glad I found your channel.
I feel the exact same way. I dont even watch anymore , maybe if it was not so long each episode i could watch more but I just cant get into it the way I used to.
factors - coming to terms with a massive fanbase - the pressure to perform - the complaints for not being this or being too much that. complaints for getting too different or not different enough, knowing it's a lifeline for a bunch of people means they can't really consider taking six months off - or going back to just playing at home when they feel like it. and the giant challenge of keeping it fresh
You’ve nailed it. CR is no longer ran for the players. It is ran for an outside audience because it pays. The show is scripted to a great degree - the players (should I say business partners) know know what will happen and they’ve agreed to act in certain ways to generate maximum drama, because drama equals views. It’s no longer real D&D and has lost its charm. Ironically, their aggressive monetisation strategy is now killing their business. However, remember this is a choice they consciously made. They could have continued playing a real game of D&D but they were so determined not to lose subs they decided to make every episode more “exciting” to make people come back.
Whilst I've loved all the campaigns, C1 remains my favourite & I started watching C1 around as it was concluding & caught up to C2 in the 20s.
I honestly think C3 is doing more for me than C2 & I can't quite put my finger on it, but I think it's tonal shift. C1 was very classic fantasy heroics with a little spin on 'em, the characters were great & there wasn't too much focus put on their backstories, we just had a sense of their attitudes, things were more "in the moment" & when those flashes of the past came up, it sort of coloured our feelings about the characters & really made us root for them when they had their triumph, or sad when they met a bitter fate.
C2 on the other hand, so much was poured into backstory & Matt weaved everything together. It never really felt like a character went through some major growth over time, either because their story beats were threaded through another so no one stole spotlight, or some other reason I can't put into words. Nott's character was pretty much already decided at the onset, Jester - as lovable as she is - was by & large unchanged by the end, Cadeuces' outlook went by & large unchanged, etc. & I think a lot of it was because so much thought was poured into the backstory that they'd solidified the characters & they became almost unchanging. It meant that the big moments of their stories weren't some character moment, they were a narrative beat in the world, meeting Yeza again after so long, finding out who her father is, seeiong the petrified Clay's, etc. whereas, when I think of C1 & I think of Vax, I'm thinking about the death of Vex at the tomb, his grappling with faith, etc. or when I think about Vex I'm thinking about the feelings that she buried under a facade of confidence & were brought to light in the quest for Fenthras, but both of their backstories were pretty much just, "Stolen by father, dragon killed mother". In C2 Thordak would've been a story beat that was a narrative conclusion to the character's journey, but in C1 it never felt like that because the characters were exemplified by the feelings of love, loss, etc. that went beyond their simple backstories.
I think where C3 has been shining so far is that I think they're returned somewhat to simplicity. Imogen gained powers through Ruidus & doesn't know her mother, FCG struggles with memories of his past & who he is, etc. whereas C2 was very, "I was captured by goblins, turned into a goblin by an evil woman with a book, I want to see my family again, but they hate goblins & I turn to drink" & "I was indoctrinated at magic school, killed my parents, was put in a psych ward & a woman cast a healing spell on me that broke me out of my stupor & I ran". As much as I liked the characters of C2, it just felt too "planned", too integrated, like they were writing a book & not enough was left for the characters to just grow over time & just experience (don't get me wrong, there was a bit of that - but C1 was basically all that). I think that's the magical D&D spark, you experience things which change your character.
I respect you a lot for being brave to share your thoughts about this on the internet. Everytime I engage with the CR community, specially if its something negative, I always get so much hatred that I just gave up interacting all together.
And I agree with everything you said, though I consider myself a newish critter. I started binging C2 when the pandemic hit, and CR honestly saved my life. The love I have for C2 is unlike what I have for anything else in my life, but 95% of that feels gone in C3.
You said that for you 'the moment' was halfway through C2, when the pandemic episodes started, but for me it was in the very beginning of C3, when some players came with EXU characters and I felt 'left out' for not having watched it. Then I realized how big and 'company-like' everything felt. The new set, the endless waves of merch that I could never afford , the fact that it wasnt live anymore ... The missing fan art during breaks ...
C3 feels more worried about looking shiny and being consistent and inclusive and not offending its viewers than actually being an TTRPG between friends.
Thats the sad thing about all of this: CR is not an RPG between friends anymore, its a weekly show of a multi million dollar brand.
I think Ill always watch new episodes, and I try to take comfort in the fact that C1 and C2 and all of the one shots will always be there for me when I miss those old CR feelings.
Everything ends.
Not to be rude but I'm kinda calling it bullshit,first you don't have to watch exu to understand the characters that came from exu Liam Ashley and Robbie made a great jon of introducing the characters for the people who didn't watched exu , second the art is not being shown because of the legal issues and also some part of the fandom were starting acusing Liam of being bias towards certain artists , "cr is not an RPG between friends anymore". Yes it is,you can still feel love that all of the cast have between each other how much they are geting to mąkę each other laugh ,smile and etc. Yes the set and everything have become more profesionall but that doesn't changed anything because all of this is still made from the cast love to each other and their fans
@@toamszkozak8822 Everything you said does not take away from my comment. It is what I feel, not you. Are my feelings towards C3 not valid? If you like it, great for you, but me and many people don't feel the same.
Yes you don't have to watch EXU to understand Orym and Fearne, but they recycling their characters took A LOT away from the start of C3. That's just the truth.
Great video. I have a habit of following small creators and losing interest when their work becomes more refined and they get bigger. This seems like the same thing, it just feels less spontaneous. It's hard to maintain the passion when you go pro. It's something I've explored the edges of with my painting and gaming.
If you have a hobby, just for fun, it helps you relax and gives you something fun to do in your free time. The second you're worried about making enough money EVERYTHING changes. It's not about fun anymore, it's about the customer and the algorithm. The same thing happened when I worked at a gaming store, I immediately played less of the games that made me want to work there. My current goal is to find a job that I like, but don't love, that has very little to do with my free time
i don't have the same feeling as you, I started watching it a little bit over a year ago. I started with Campaign 2 cuz campaign 1 episode 1 just didn't give me good vibes.
I slowly but surely fell in love with Campaign 2 and finished it around 15 episodes into Campaign 3 (yes I finished Campaign 2 in 3ish months, I was a HS student with depression) then quickly finished the episodes of Campaign 3 and am still watching excitedly. I love CR so much, it along with Dimension 20 introduced me to DnD (even if I love CR more, aside from my celeb crush Brennan), but I can respect and even see where your coming from at times.
but to me, idk, even as someone who despises capitalism as a system I can't help but get all nerdy and excited when some of my favorite internet people all sit together and make a really good story.
You're not alone.
I'm not sure if it's the commercialization that's put me off. It's been more of the slow pace of the campaign so far as well as some of the characters I haven't really been into but I would say as soon as Chetney came in I really got hooked
Thank you for your video. I think a lot of C1 era fans probably feel the same way.
For me, them turning into their own company did change things from a super casual game into a product and I could feel it. Moving to filming ahead of time also made things easier on the cast and opened up time for other projects, but also put distance between the audience and the cast that didn't feel like was there before. And so many other little changes, as well as Brian Foster moving on. He was US talking to the cast, and was so entertaining, it was hard to see him go an so quietly as well. It took a bit to get used to them evolving into a lifestyle rather than friends seeing each other outside work. I was afraid they were going to go extreme corporate, lose touch with fans, they'd have to force the fun instead of just having it, let go of Brian for some sinister reason that would leak, and other things that come with becoming a corporate entity. I even was waiting for actual scandal, because there was a rash of that ripping across some of my favorite TH-cam channels a couple years ago.
Luckily my fears have not manifested. The fun and charm is still at the table, they still seem to be good friends, and their job now is doing stuff they love. I have allowed myself to relax into this new CR era more comfortably tho a part of me dreads when the cast will start to retire or be replaced. 😩 It's the other shoe that drops far too often in gaming and entertainment - if we're lucky and CR continues to love each other so much then it will happen because of the passage of time, and not scandal.
However, on the other note. When it comes to their campaigns, I too was lost on C2. It started off strong, but the more they meandered across the landscape the less interested I was. I did something I never thought I'd do. I skipped episodes of what, to me, felt like filler and just caught up on the recap. I was pulled back in when they got to Jhorhas , and met Essek and his fascinating culture. Then they lost me again with side questing, pulled me back in with the political plots and finding Essek at the center of a scheme, and then lost me with side quests again.
Then all of a sudden Lucien was alive and I was HOOKED back in like C1 all over again. Each character had blossomed into their full potential, plot threads were finally coming together, party characters finally were being honest with each other, friendships were now solidified, there was less meandering around aimlessly, and Essek, who had risen to becoming my favorite character, was seeing more and more 'screentime' in a redemption arc subplot to the whole end of the Campaign. He even became a flipping party member!!! I was absolutely amazed Matt ended up with an NPC in the main party by the end 😆 (and then forgot him through most of the resolution while wrapping things up probably because Matt was so focused on so many other things! 😅). That whole last arc was... Insane in a good way. And ended unexpectedly quickly, I remember.
People loved C2 to pieces. I don't blame them and I welcome all new fans. Ultimately, I figure every party is going to feel different and C2 was a chance to play their cards close to their chest and really take their time with character development and exploring the world. I just got bored waiting around for things to happen and got frustrated with morally dubious decisions!! Compared to C1 where every arc had a clear, major bad guy to take down and high stakes and the party members were already all very close...
Then we get to C3. Right off the bat, the cast is being open with backstory, sharing info, trying to see their goals through and helping each other accomplish things, and trying to do some good in the world. At least half of Vox Machina were aholes to all but their family and friends, let's be honest. 😆 C2 was very morally gray all around, except perhaps Cadeucus. But C3 is much more my flavor. There's tragedy and hardship, every party member is lost in some way, and there's a focus on helping each other and accepting each other that I vibe with. I'm invested in the cast, and the story is unfolding in a neat stacking up of coincidences and events and lore spills that I LOVE about CR and Matt's DMing.
After all this and thinking about my relationship with CR since discovering it back during the height of the Briarwood arc... I think it was the combo of corporate status change and C2 being a morally gray (and gray all around cuz Wildemount is bleak dude) and wandering story that almost lost me as a fan for a while.
However, at least for me it is not a matter of nostalgia so much as what vibes with me. And I guess by now I can accept that I just don't vibe with true neutral parties and letting them wander a out for half a campaign! 😆 I also can accept by now that it's alright if I leave for a while. I used to feel bad and beholden to watching every moment. But I don't have to and the recaps are really helpful. I'm happy to see recap/review videos for C3 which are fun and I love reactions to favorite moments.
I haven't fallen out of love with CR, but it's also okay to move on if you're not into it. There are so many adventures out there to be witnessed or participate in. Go find em! But you're always welcome back!
I sorta feel the same way about the campaign 3? I was lucky enough to fall back in love with it because I do enjoy it myself. Granted I didn't watch Campaign 1 till much later, about 3 years after it ended.
I agree with your sentiment, although I started watching with C2. My personal feeling is that it's less about the production and productization and more about having to say goodbye to the characters or specific character you grew connected too. It doesn't feel the same because the characters are different, every time Laudna does something i''m expecting a bo "pop pop" somewhere, or when Imogen says something I'm expecting an "are you pooping?". The new characters are great, I especially love Chetney and Bertrum when he was around, but having to let go of the old ones sucks a bit, it's like saying goodbye to really good old friends. It's hard to transition to a new bestie if you're still wound up about the old one. Even during c2 (Spoiler warning if you haven't watched) when Knott transitioned to Veth I felt a little of that and lost a little focus on the show for a good 10-15 episodes. The cast are so good at getting you connected and invested in the characters that saying goodbye and changing it up really sucks.
I had a hard time letting go of the C2 characters. I've finally decided that I do like the C3 characters, but I'm still having a hard time with the setting and story.
I've been playing D&D since 1st Edition and stumbled on C1 by accident actually. And this is by far the best explanation of my own experience as well! Thanks dude! While I enjoyed the rawness of C1, C2 has been my favorite so far. It still felt like a bunch of goofy friends playing together, just with better equipment. Whereas EXU, EXU:C, and C3 felt like it is more of a job than an escape for the cast. Just my two cents, but I'm still a big fan and always find an idea or two that I can morph and incorporate into my own games.
The magic is simply gone.
Like any d&d game it's when they relax and get into the story that it's the best. I'm struggling with the same issues with the show. It's a job more than fun now.
For me I think it’s more about…The fact that there’s not a clear message. Actually the more and more I watched d20 the harder I found it to watch Critical Role. There’s several different reasons for this, some of if it is just me having ADHD tbh. Dimension 20 is more edited, which I sometimes dislike but it makes it easier to watch. Another huge thing is the length. It’s hard to pay attention to something for four hours straight. And it’s not every week I find myself having time to do so. And then I have a busy month and fuck now I have over 16 hours to catch up on. And it makes it daunting. I’m now 15 episodes behind and I have no idea when I’ll catch up. I think they would benefit from making their episodes a bit shorter, or not have an episode every week. And the campaigns are so long as well, four hours and over 200 episodes? Other than making it daunting it sometimes take away from the story of the sheer mass of it.
If someone asks me what Fantasy High is about I can answer it easily, but with Critical Role there’s so many story arcs I barely know where to begin. It’s hard to sum them up, just because if the sheer size, and the fact that some characters do die and make room for others. If I want to give a genuine insight to what CR2 is about and what happens I’d need an hour. This also means that the themes aren’t as clear and not easily found. You forget what happens between episode 15 and 196 and if there’s parallels you don’t spot them easily. What is the theme of CR2? I’m not sure. What are they trying to say? Several things I’m sure but to put that into words… Whilst with dimension 20 and their more focused episodes, arcs and Brennan Lee Mulligan consistently showing what kind of story they’re telling it’s easier to spot those parallels and messages.
I’ve never reflected about the commercialisation of CR before but I’m sure you’re right. But d20 whilst not as big also have certain same elements (but there we don’t see as a clear shift as in CR) But ultimately for me, although Critical Role is good and it has so many talented people in it. The story doesn’t leave me with an ending that makes me go “I see this is what they wanted to tell. This is the story and now it’s done. Here are the themes explored” And for me that makes it less memorable, and although it’s entertaining it means it will never become a favourite again.
(EXU CALAMITY IS THE EXCEPTION TO THIS SINCE IT DOES HAVE CLEAR THEMES AND AN ENDING AND IS ACTUALLY THE BEST CAMPAIGN EVER)
Part of it is the adjustment after your first campaign. C1 was most of their first characters, which is a really special thing. It’s hard to figure out your second campaign, etc.
It is a bit different, sure, but I still really enjoy it and laugh more than I do with almost any group.
Intresting, I also started with campaign 1, but by the time I started the journey it was already c3, so I had a lot of content to sprint through. I did love C1, but something about C2 was so special for me that I think that was the peak of Critical Role for me personally. The characters and party dynamics, the personalities, the small things were so much deeper for me than C1. The world the setting by Matt, the many paths available and maybe also a bit how much more balanced it was. For me C1 was in this sense, a lot more like a homegame. The characters were so ridiculously overpowered, to the point where I genuinely never felt afraid for the party. While it was still fun watching this crazy legend party take on a god and other things it still didnt feel as exciting as campaign 2. While not expecting a TPK every episode is nowhere near a bad thing, I just didnt feel that excited during fights, I knew that all of them were so op it's always gonna work out somehow (I find it amazing that one of the party still ended up dying permanently). So yeah for me C2 was the peak of CR as of now, C3 is also really good just a bit different, but C1 just wasn't something I fell in love with even though that's the first thing I watched.
It's always fascinating for me how different we are as people, something you fell in love with and still miss to this day was something a little less amazing for me than everything else, and that's okay. :D
I personally am more of a fan of C2 and C3 and even ExU than C1. I think that has multiple reasons. Firstly, I am not really a fan of classic fantasy. I love the genre but I need there to be more than. C1 was very good but heavily relied on arc structure and character architypes. So basically C1 cartered the least to my personal fantasy tastes. With each new campaign Exandria as a setting and the characters get much more complex. The Aeor arc and EXU:Calamity are some of my favorite CR content ever.
The next reason is that to me the players feel much more like a family than they ever did in C1. Not to say that wasn't the case in C1 but it was less frequent.
And just seeing how they try to push their storytelling while still maintaining the original spark (in my opinion) has been great. They are not afraid of change. Each campaign is unique. C3 for example starting with more pronounced characters and taking its time fleshing out one city and a hand full of NPCs and following one big arc is a big departure from previous campaigns. And I love it.
For me CR never was about them not knowing DnD very well. Or having fandom interaction. Or taping their episodes live. It is about these friends playing a game together every week and trying to create a complex world with interesting characters.
All that are just my random musings. I totally get why not everyone feels the same. CR continuing to grow and embracing the change it brings with it means that not everyone will enjoy it. But somehow through all this change, I managed to love most of what they do with Exandria.
I fell in love with the show as you fell out of it it seems. I watched c1 after c2, and what I loved about c1 was that the characters felt like something my friends would come up with. The archetypes like Scanlan and Grog felt approachable and relatable. C2 characters were more complicated, but it did not stop me from loving Caduceus a lot. In c3 there's a Caduceus shaped hole that I miss.
Caduceus was my absolute favourite part about C2
Unfortunately, it seems like Taliesin won't create anything similar to him unless the group really needs it. Ashton, Molly and Percy all feel like variations of a common theme.
I had a similar experience. Campaign 2 just never hooked me. Campaign 2 the characters all just seemed almost like the same basic archetype. Campaign 3 has been better imo there’s more fun.
I feel your sentiments. I started watching a bit in campaign 2, I got up to around episode 59~ I think and haven’t found time to watch the end of it. I was never really interested in campaign 1 after a friend spoiled it on accident. But yea started watching campaign 3 every Thursday and it’s become something of a weekly ritual for me. As much as I may not be their biggest fan and I disagree with a lot of what they do and how they play, I still respect what they (and the community) have made together.
For what it's worth, I feel the exact same way you do. C1 was a genuine D&D game that happened to be put on Twitch. C2ish and C3 are professional entertainment meant at their core to be consumed by an audience. I think the kickstarter/the break from G&S and becoming their own entity were the moments when the show really crossed over to being a "show" as opposed to a "game" for me.
I started watching cr during Chroma conclave and I've never stopped loving it. I've had lulls here and there, but I've never lost my joy for it on the ride.
I am a relatively new Critter. I got into the show for Campaign 3 and fell in love with the characters. But my observation from a lot of long time fans seems to be that a lot of you seem to be just kinda burnt out after so many years. I saw a lot of campaign 1 and 2 before I considered myself a fan. I had friends who were fans and would tell me about it and I'd watch clips and other than the production getting sharper it really doesn't seem any different to me. The merch is an obvious addition and they clearly have roles within the company but none of that seems to matter when they start gaming. The glee they all have when Matt drops a lore bomb on them or the tension when a boss shows up seems just as real. One thing though is that Campaign 3 does feel more crafted. It isn't the simple matter of a random group of strangers meeting up and haplessly becoming heroes. This group, but Imogen especially, feels like they have a destiny and a story that is crafted around THEM rather than them reacting to the story. I can understand why that might feel comparatively a little off. But I would advise that people who feel this way should step away for a bit, take a break from CR and come back to it with fresh eyes later. I can tell you as someone who basically binged Campaign 3 via the podcast on spotify that you will find yourself ripping through at least 2 or 3 a week just on a commute to and from work and the story really does flow well in that manner. I'm caught up now... I ended up catching up the week episode 33 was released and it honestly felt like the longest wait for a new episode of something in my life.
That's really interesting, because I really felt that C3 missed some spice as well. stopped watching around EP25, but now just picked it up again, because i had to quarantine. Let's see what waits at 29 that makes it so exciting.
I think it was the pre recorded change.. doesnt feel the same not being live
I came into CR in the middle of CR1 and I enjoyed it. It got me back into Playing, DMing, and ultimately reworking my own setting for 5E. That being said, I look at it for what it is. Story telling.
I love the show, but like any campaign it can move very slowly at times. Hard core fans of long play campaigns dive into things like this because they enjoy the narrative and get to be a part of it. When they began to prerecord the sessions the tone changed. The story telling is still there but feeling like you are a part of the is now missing.
I still watch the show but usually it is on the weekend after the Monday afternoon YT drop. I enjoy the cast interactions in season 3 but they haven’t reached the point that I have been grabbed by the narrative just yet. When the group begins to gel and the arc solidifies is when it becomes must see for me. Right now it’s like toddlers learning to walk, slow and clumsy but still fun watching the characters grow up if you know what I mean.
Personally I think the lack of it being live, and therefore the lack of the audience interaction makes it feel less intimate, and therefore some of the magic is gone. On more than one occasion chat would point things out to the players, perhaps that's part of why they distanced themselves in this way, but this in not a univariate issue. They're the creators and also doing things like Marisha being the creative director, and Travis being CEO. They're running a multimillion dollar business (talk about pressure) while also trying to "have fun" with the game (read: product) that fuels it all. I think honestly what they need to do is finish campaign 3, and let go of being the ones in front of the camera. Or rather, the original cast needs to start being guests on Exandria Unlimited. Calamity showed how amazing that format could be, and regardless of the differences Aabria is a fun DM to watch. Matt could write lore, help these other DMs and run a home game if the cast still wants to play (I'd wager a home game blog/retelling by Dani could be a way to turn it into revenue if they wanted) but they need a way to RELAX when playing D&D now. They're under pressure and we all feel it, in a game that the rest of us know as an escape from the pressure of our daily lives.
Well said!
I didn’t come to CR until after C1 had ended, but before the beginning of C2. I was very invested in C2 and loved most of it. But I couldn’t watch more than a few episodes of C3. I watched the premiere live in the theater and was very excited about it, but it started slow and felt extremely contrived. I think what made me fall out of love with CR is the difference between C2 and C3. In C2 it felt like the cast was genuinely interested in figuring out the mysteries buried in each character’s backstory, but from the start of C3 it felt like they were all kind of in on it together; that it was no longer about their relationships, but about their relationship to the fans. I know I should finish C1, but I would rather rewatch C2 instead of watching C3.
Interesting observation on the cast feeling like they're in on the mysteries together!
@@castlecaster I obviously don’t know the truth, but I think the PC mystery box became formulaic after during C2. The fans expect it, so the cast knows that they have to deliver. Laudna’s sheer, unavoidable weirdness and FCGs whole concept felt like bright neon signs to this right from the start. There was a subtlety to the cast of C2 that was engaging and sympathetic. The cast of C3 feel too in on the joke.
I also fell off early in C3. I didn’t find the PCs relatable, and the interaction between the characters was feeling forced. I think that happens a lot in DnD in general. I still love the team though, and watch their other content. Exu Calamity was amazing.
I think what's really neat, is that there *are* so many different options. My introduction to CR was Candela Obscura (Vassel, Needle) and I was immediately hooked.
I tried stepping into C1 (after doing non-story-spoilering research) and had no interest in wading through thirty some odd seasions before I could feel relaxed. I watched the two episodes before the character went their own way in game, and the episodes after had a much better dynamic/atmosphere...but I still felt disconnected from the story and characters. I knew basic details, but it's not really the same.
Switching to C2 made perfect sense, and it was magical to me. I loved the setting, characters, and themes. C2 helped me in so many ways. And most recently, ExU: Calamity captured my heart in an entirely different way.
I hope that I find the right moment to give C1 another try, and I know that even though it hasn't resonated with me, I am still grateful and happy for how much it has meant to so many others.
I've decided to wait a while before starting C3, because I want to have the same 'blank slate, zero expectations" that I did with C2.
I have a lot of appreciation for just how much the CR folks have shared through the years, and I'm incredibly grateful that I keep discovering new stories.
ExU: Calamity was my *introduction* to Brennan, and I started D20 Crown of Candy.
I fully understand having a lot of emotional attachment to these characters, and I know I'm not in a place where I can let go of the MN enough to fully welcome C3. And that's OK. There will be a time when I'm not only ready, but excited to meet BH.
It's incredible that people watch the sessions live, and I can understand how that probably adds to the sense if community, but maybe it also raises the stakes for the audience in a potentially negative way?
It baffles me how much negativity gets launched at the humans portraying fictional characters...I'm just glad they all still seem to love what they're doing, because I really look forward to discovering more stories.
I feel that the main difference between campaign 1 and the later 2 was that campaign 1 was much more simplistic. The villains were comic book loud. Meaning they were dramatic, noticeable, and clearly evil mostly. This made it easier for the audience to track. The later campaigns have a lot more nuance and uncertainty. There were a lot of times where the journey of the characters and their motivations became very muddy. However I don't think that the business element changed the style. They started very generic when they first started playing together as most people do when playing with a new group. From there they seem to have found their preferred style of playing together.
If the difference is putting up a bit of a professional wall between them and their fandom. Well, that was necessary for mental health given toxic members of the fandom.
For me I started watching round Molly's death in campaign 2 and if I had started in campaign 1 I probably wouldn't have kept watching. It's a good thing to be able to look at something you have been a fan of and realise "This property has moved away from my interest and that's fine. I don't have to stay a fan of the new stuff just because I was a fan of their previous stuff" rather than getting angry at them changing over time or trying to pretend it's still the same.
I have to say that usually in episode 30 something in campaign 1 and 2 things pick up.
I get what you’re saying about the commercialization of the show and how they’re a full on company with a ton of moving parts now and it kills the vibes of the chill DND night vibes, but I got into the show literally a few episodes after they came back from that Covid break and then spent the next 6 months or so watching the beginning of campaign 2 while watching the newest streams as they came out. So as I got maybe 2 episodes a week on average downed on my path to catching up, I was also straight up spoiling shit for myself watching the latest streams as they moved into the Aeor arc. And honestly I fucking loved it. There’s an aspect of the Covid compliant setup that I miss because I think they were just so happy to be able to spend that time together that it made Covid more tolerable for me too. Some of my favorite moments are from that time and in a way I miss it.
But for C3 something definitely feels off. I feel like they wanted to go more colorful and crazy with their characters and their class builds which felt refreshing at the tail end of 2021, but narratively it seemed harder to imagine this group sticking together, so as a show that people watch it had a suspension of disbelief that took longer to take hold. I think it’ll continue to get better, but I think Matt had a hell of a job in trying to find a way to make this group care about each other and relate to each other more through the scenarios they go through and I think he’s doing a damn fine job of it.
C3 has a group that is endearing, but not immediately endearing to each other (save for specific small combos like Fearne, Dorian + Orym and Imogen and Laudna) and C1 started years after the group chemistry had been established and C2 had a bunch of damaged misfits running from the law and who they were tired of being so that was easy to fall in love with. But benefit of the doubt doesn’t fix the problem of it not having that same quality.
I do have a wild prediction though. This is still a profitable and successful company, so if they make it out of C3 in a similar state, enough to justify one more campaign with the OG crew for a good handful of years, I have no doubt that C4 would be some soulful and incredible shit. They’re following a good pattern of 1) following tropes and nailing them, to 2) getting serious and having characters that like each other more than the world around them, to 3) the definition of “variety is the spice of life” to the point that thematic narrative is almost impossible to create or care about, to 4) the true maturity round, a deeply heartfelt character with the brevity to express it and carry on the adventure and story threads that beat so strongly like the atriums of a heart that you can’t help but watch even as they all fall apart and lose each other.
I guessed Taleisins next character would be a barbarian so this is my next guess. A little ambitious maybe, but I’m willing to bet on it
I fell out of love with critical role and fell in love with Dungeons and Daddies. It’s so much simpler
S3 E29 and on really shifted the campaign and made it super interesting this season. I didn't learn about Critical Role until around S2 E40 when I'd just come back to D&D after having not played for 20 years. I still love the show but I don't faithfully watch it live anymore and tend to listen to it in the background when I'm working...except when there's good combat or RPing that draws my sole attention
I started watching CR somewhere in C2 and it was magical. I watched C1 and I loved it even more. Idk what it is with C3 but I can't really get into it no matter how much I want to feel the magic again. I am still watching, it's still good but it feels different and I can't figure out why.
It's funny as I really could not get into Campaign 1. I've only started watching since Campaign 3.
To be fair the beginning of C1 is pretty rough lol. Tons of tech issues and player that becomes a problem. But even with that aside, everyone has their own taste. Glad you're enjoying C3!
I started watching in mid C2, and the difference at the table is notable. C3 feels like it's in service to the company. No doubt, this is still their game and at the end of the day the players and Matt own the company, but I wouldn't be surprised about is if they had guidelines about story and pacing the game had to fall into for time but also viewer retention. C1 felt like a home game livestreamed, C2 felt like a high budget home game, but C3 (to me) feels like a production...
I felt the same. Especially at the tail end of Campaign 2.It started to feel like a business. Which it was.
But after Campaign 3 started and Chetney came into the group, it changed for me.
The group dynamic (which is a major point in Critical Role, them being friends and just playing) seemed to change. Its not quite there yet but I feel like they started to play just as friends again. Yes, the business side is there as well and that will not go away but the casual atmosphere seems to be returning.
At least, for me.
Also, I love the characters in Campaign 3 so theres that.
I started watching CR in S2 after not wanting to ever watch any DnD shows. I got hooked and religiously watched it through completion. I tried to go back to S1 and just wasn't able to get through those early episodes, and when S3 dropped I had no interest at all. I have thought that a lot of my lack of interest in S3 revolves around not really liking any of the characters (in S2 it was just Beau and Molly I disliked at the start). But my wife watched all of Dungeons and Daddies and loved it, but tried S2 of CR and said she didn't like it because it felt too professional. So maybe that is echoing what you are saying and what I was feeling about S3 too.
I do agree with this. As time went on, lot of things Matt said and talked about. The cast said and did in the show. Felt like they were all shilling for their upcoming book set in that world.
So Basically we're talking about a very common feeling. "It was better back in those days" It's common, normal and shouldn't be taken badly. I love the way they're evolving, I'll stick around for longer :D. I do agree on C2 the latter half. The whole Lucian plot was cool all the way until the final fight. I didn't feel it very well.
Finally somebody said it. I feel exactly the same way.
I discovered CR when I happened across the first one shot Matt did with Stephen Colbert. I had no IDEA D&D was so cool. Naturally I started watching during C2 and I was not disappointed. Then EU happened which meant the addition of new players and a new DM. Growth in anything is inivitable I suppose and yet it removes the stuff we love. You did a good job explaining what those things are. The lousy sound system, Sam's shirts and his drinking vessels, the set changes even the NPC's were imperfect. Thanks to a gorgeous set, new players and DM's CR has grown up. That's a good thjng and yet...
I'll personally take breaks for swaths of episodes, 15 or so and then start again and get caught up and enjoy it.
I think I found CR when the 1st trailer for the Vox Machina show dropped. Which totally love. but I have no time to spend 5 6 hours on a meandering plot. But I love the calamity 4 parter where I found BLM and his crew of Dimention 20. Though when I need a good laugh I go to EXU and watch Aabria trying to control those bumbling idiots.
This is a cery real feeling. I think it's important that we kinda Acknowlege that. I enjoy cr abt as much as i enjoy d20, which is Also highly produced and edited.
Tbh i think the cast probably need time to find their feet again bc it Has changed a Ton. C2 is my favourite campaign even tho i feel the same. I think in the end it has the characters and lore elements i enjoy the most and... honestly it was once things from earlier campaigns started to get tied into the larger narrative of c3 that i started to get invested again. Idk if it's pure nostalgia or if i just enjoy that lore More. But it us what it is.
Personally i find this feeling of the honeymoon pgase ending w cr to be very refreshing and the fandom is , it turns out, still a lot if fun (when it's not all ship wars lmaoo)
It's.. super easy to get burnt out from this show. The creators are doing So Many Things to appeal yo a wider audience and honestly, i can't keep up w it all anymore. We'll see where they take the bussiness side of things but like.. ye. I feel the same. The show is what it is and i can enjoy it for that still.
It might even be in everyone's best interest to adopt some of that emotional distance bc the parasocial spect of "these are a group of friends that i watch play more than i see my actual friends and family".. rly wasn't healthy ever 😂😂😂
The big change that make me stop watching is even simpler: They stopped playing live.
The show as it stands feels both over produced, and under produced. Why stick with the static 3 cam setup that has each cast member take up such a small portion of the frame if it's no longer live? Just about every fan clip from the show takes the time to edit between the cast to show the acting and facial expressions in full frame. Shows like Dimension 20 have multi camera editing woven in to focus on each player, and insert shots for character art and maps. If CR wanted to abandon the live format, why invest so much in their battle maps, miniatures, set dressings, and backgrounds when they are barley even on screen? Why is there a 15 min break in the middle if they can just cut forward? Its so weird to me that they want it to "feel like a live show" when it isn't. It just makes it feel lifeless.
They’ve used the same format since the beginning…. How does them not being live matter or why should it effect how they’ve run the show for soo many years. What a selfishly stupid opinion.
@@ikache1038 Ah the most elegant response, contradict yourself and call the person stupid instead of adding anything to the conversation. Great job 🎉🎉🎉
I’ve been thinking this as well. D20 shows is so well edited and it cuts down on the super long runtimes. If it’s not live make it better produced
I felt this after Season 1 i dont think was about the work said of things but i think its more about pace last chapter of season 2 felt like forever to end and it was, for me, not fullfeeling but i hope s3 gets better whit time, also the not live part its also rele hard its missing the vivo magic.... now you are not "PART OF THE TABLE" you are just watching forme a side... its not the same.... but its life
Life’s too short. And CR demands a lot of your time. I’m fading away on it too. It feels too corporate now. It stopped feeling like a bunch of friends playing, and started feeling like a company. And down the line, more like company who is just milking their fans for money and fame while giving them less quality.
As someone who got into CR cus of the TLOVM animated series, I see it as more of a "it's hot so you want it cold, and when its cold you want hot" situation. What I mean is that since it's so polished now ppl are inevitably gonna miss the gritty, informal beginnings, but DURING those beginnings I'm sure ppl wanted things to be more POLISHED and have more production, hence the animated series. These things are unavoidable at this point. Big props to the CR cast for still being able to maintain that fun-loving energy no matter the changes. They love playing and we will always love watching them play
This is a great point, I live for the moments when the table breaks character and they all start laughing or whatever
Honestly I had a feeling that campaign 3 was losing me as well.
However, the last episode that came out involved a major dramatic shift, so if a number of things stay permanent after this last eppy, I'll be invested again
The most recent episode had me glued to the screen
Same here if they don't revert the thing, or even better use it as a jumping off point to something more exciting I'll be happy. If Matt chickens out then eeeeeh
Nothing lasts forever, as you said. Interested in whether or not they can maintain the business side if/when the show no longer draws the numbers.
I think that will depend on a lot of factors, like if their products gain popularity outside their immediate fanbase. Hard to say, but the stream doesn't really show much sign of serious decline yet. At least not dangerous levels of it.
I think Mercer saw this and tried his hand at a Brennan Lee Mulligan esque TPK. If you haven’t watched Escape from Bloodkeep, you should.
Escape From the Bloodkeep was the first Dimension 20 season I watched. Love it!
I'd love to see your opinion after the most recent episode.
I've for the most part been hooked right back in since 29. Last week's I thought was pretty boring, but this most recent episode I was on the edge of my seat the entire time
@@castlecaster It left me breathless and I don't even usually like fight episodes.
Late to the party on this post, maybe subconsciously I'm trying to convince myself to get back into critical role but I believe we fell off a friend of mine and I around episode 25 of campaign three.
Completely agree with all of your sentiments about them becoming a corporation and losing that homespun homemade feel, I'm sure they're all very nice to people in their social circles and they all probably are very altruistic.
I couldn't help but feel a bit misled by their becoming a big corporation, not that I disagree with it but I think my feeling was when they raised the money for their first season of VM. I personally believe that money was already in place, because of the deal they made with Amazon and they just didn't tell the wider public until the official announcement.
I do believe they took the money that was raised from fans and reinvested into the business.
But in truth, after watching all of Campaign 2 and some of Campaign 1, which I will not do due to the OA scandal, after missing one episode of Campaign 3.
After being a regular watcher for almost 4 years, I felt no need to rush back. Also, I had a very negative experience as a member of their official fan community a couple years ago, still not something I like remembering but that's part of it I believe.
Altogether I think the cast is exceptionally talented, but it has become less about playing the game, than content generation which makes me sad. I will keep the books and other things that I bought for sure because they helped reignite my creativity in a small way, but I no longer watch critical roles just because I think they left my kind of fan behind.
I honestly could never really get into Campaign 1 but I never felt that way about 2 and even 3. C1 kind of just picks up with a group of really established characters with dynamics that have already been laid out over years of play behind closed doors. Yeah plenty of people got behind that but I couldn't really. It felt like joining in on a friend group with established history to me.
Campaign 2 I really got to go along for the ride with them, watch their dynamics grow, establish relationships between characters as they get to know each other and watch as the story impacts them and the characters as it unfolds.
Campaign 3 is sort of the same way but I'm not as invested as I was Campaign 2. C2 kind of dropped the backstory hooks and mystery real early. C3 feels slower with the things that hooked me from C2 not dropping in a way that really captivates me. Episode 33 has really changed that for me though. I want to see how the tragedy effects everyone involved and I'm more interested and invested than I have been the entire Campaign so far.
I stopped listening during C2, I used to listen to it podcast style. A lot of “I move here” and “ooo dwarven forge the map looks so cool!” Like I can’t see it. I like the descriptions and math.
Hot take maybe, but I loved C1, had trouble liking C2 for the first 3rd but then I think the second half is their BEST episodes so far, and C3 is really cool but I need time to start caring for those new characters.
The thing I have thought about with C2 is that...well it was hard. It was in the middle of a pandemic and you had a group of people doing some terrible things and really screwing everyone over while calling themselves the good guys. That's not really the kind of thing I wanted at the time. C2 was just less enjoyable.
Now C3 feels a lot more like C1 and I am enjoying it more.
so... I honestly burnt out during campaign 2
I was really enjoying it for a while but at a certain point I started finding it harder and harder to remain invested despite still loving the cast and characters
eventually I think I figured out what the problem was for me, it didn't feel focused
in C1 (after the first 30 messy episodes) there was always something they were doing or moving towards based off of current events or their history in the world
it never felt aimless, they were always doing things and you knew why and the little breaks between arcs felt like the characters letting off steam
but in C2 after a certain point it felt like they didn't know what too do
there were so many plot hooks and things to look into but none of them felt urgent or necessary and it felt like the characters were just muddling along
and I think that feeling is what made me move away from the show, and why I enjoyed things like calamity and downfall so much
things felt meaningful, like they were happening for a reason and not like I was watching people figure out what they wanted to do in real time
I think discovering other actual play shows has lessened my “obsession” with CR. Not sure there’s a reason I can point to in CR’s games themselves.
MAYBE it feels a little less zany than it once did/compared to others but I think my memory there is biased and jumbled so not reliable.
Its a good thing that there are other creators to fall in love with and different actual plays styles to match my current mood as a consumer of media. CR isnt gonna leave my life, it still has my twitch prime subscription, but rn its not my priority.
Current other actual plays I watch/listen to are NADDPod, Dimension20, and TapleTopNotch.
Glass Cannon Network
I watched part of C1, then stopped just before Orion left the show. I came back and started again with C2, I was able to binge watch up to something like episode 80, and I really enjoyed it. I feel like near the end of C2 things started getting more scripted. I'm having a hard time getting through C3 episodes. Right now I'm stuck on E25. I had a good time with Calamity, though.
I started with C2 and it's still going to be my favorite campaign. C1 is amazing and has a great overall story (better than C2), but I really fell in love with the Mighty Nein.
And with C3 I have a couple problems, but the past 10 episodes were amazing.
I think that Critical Role is the best of the best content that you can watch on the internet.
This i happening to me in C3.. i loved every episode up until Robbie left.. then its like i have no feelings about the show anymore i lose focus i am not listening.. its not Robbie per say but the vibes were different up until he left.
The reason im struggling massively with it now, in campaign 3, is that it doesnt feel like dnd anymore.
its a soap opera with 90% of the session being melodramatic level dialogue. like im getting sickj of hearing imogen drone on and on about how she feels for an hour.
like an abundance of movement, and development, and things happening that drive character growth and interactions not this wierd "lets focus entirely on our characters feelings for an hour" while nothing happens.
I mean I think it's kind of just bound to happen. Look at how many TV shows get old after a spell. And that's just half an hour or an hour a week. This is a minimal of 3 hours and in some early episodes as many as 6. At a certain point things aren't going to resonate the same anymore. You are going to pick up on tropes. And you are going to start to get a feel of what and how things are going to play out. Sam's characters always kind of seem like a joke but always have something big behind them. So is it shocking anymore when that's revealed? Nope. You are just kind of waiting for it now. That's one example but those examples are through the entire show. The occasional guest star can help bring in interest for sure. But if they are going to continue to have the same cast year after year after year the chances for something surprising to happen with a characters development kind of goes out the window. Personally I think they should consider rotating cast members out. Maybe even do to campaigns so all the cast members can still be playing but have them interacting with some fresh blood in each group. I think that would go a ways to breathing some new life into the series.
On my personal opinion l think that's a bad idea to be honest , l love the dynamics between the group since the beginning and it's not predictable especially whith Sam and Travis, l was so surprised when chetny appeared it was a really good surprise some were "maybe" predictable but for the most part it was a surprise for me , also trust me there's gonna be a riot in the community if someone leaves the table and breaks the whole dynamic it happened initially whith robbie
Personally, I think part of the reason I've fallen out of love is that it feels so far removed from the fans now. Especially with no longer being live, no longer airing shows like Talks or the plethora of variety shows they produced, and a general feeling of things being a lot more planned than they were before. I loved seeing beautiful and wacky fanart every week, submitting questions with the hope that they might be read, and having a tight-knit community that was so supportive of one another. Now toxic fans make Twitter and twitch chat unbearable, and there is little to no interaction with the fans at all.
Also, it feels waaaaaay too produced. Like they're forcing themselves to keep up their typical antics when they aren't in-character (for the little bit that we see out of character), overly steering the plot and character development, and pushing out more and more merch week after week. It feels less like a dnd campaign and more like a TV show that just happens to be played out through dnd. At first I thought it was just the growing pains of a budding company making the transition from hobby to career, but it's continuous. I think this is the best way that they have found to turn their downtime fun into a profitable business. It's less fun for the consumer, less fun for the producers, but more money for investors and partners and projects.
I agree with you about it not being live, and I miss the feeling at the table from C1. Maybe they just lerned how to play D&D very well and that took away some of that magic. In C2 we still got Talks with Brian, and you could feel that goofy fucking around with friends feeling from C1. Now we only have C3 and i dont even remember what the new talks is called.
Nothing of this is bad, the C3 is still a good show. But for me it's a podcast now. A good fun story, like a audio book. Or maybe I lost the magic, who knows. :P I run my own homebrew world with my best friends who never played before. There I find that magic.
As someone who found cr halfway through c2, I'd say most of your discomfort is nostolgia factor. The game still feels not too different from a home game. People leave for bathroom breaks, look at their phones, talk over each other, etc. Nice and polished and done by pros maybe, but who doesnt improve afyer 8 years? It took me nearly 3 times as long to finish c1 because it just seemed so boring and mundane character wise after watching c2.
I started in Campaign 2, but went back and rewatched C1 when they went on haitus and totally agree that it was soo much richer with characters and world interactions.
I'm one of the few people I know who are still watching, and this is my favorite Campaign so far! But I'm also in it for the Lore and World, not so much the characters, which I know is what most poeple are there for, and in that regard there is definitely something missing that used to be the heart of it.
Yep. Pretty much the same here. I lost interest and stopped watching part way through the 2nd campaign. I just couldn't get into the characters and story like I did with the 1st campaign. I tried again briefly when the 3rd campaign started, but once again, the characters didn't speak to me. Not begrudging anyone that disagrees, just don't find the show appealing anymore myself.
Why aren't we talking about the first 30 episodes?
To me, season 1 was a group of talented friends playing d&d. Seasons 2 was a group of actors playing d&d. Season 3 is just a production.
I started on C2 so it's the one I love the most. I tried watching C1 but it just feels too outdated in a weird way. I've never been bothered by them becoming more "Corporate" or professional, it's uplifting if anything. Also people saying it's because they're woke now or whatever...please shut up. That said C3 is having a hard time getting my attention. The last couple of episodes in the Bassuras arc have been great, but there's something about the team dynamic that isn't clicking for me. It just feels like none of the characters are all that great aside from a couple. (Laudna and Dorian for me are the best) Maybe they're leaning a little to hard into comedy, maybe the characters of C2 just mixed much better but I haven't given up on C3 at all really, if we get a C4 with the OG cast I'd still be excited.
One thing I have noticed on myself and many on this comment section. Most of us seem to love the campaign in which we started watching more than any others so keep that in mind when you're watching C3 and feel a little left out.
I was the same; watching since the Geek&Sundry days, watching religiously every Thursday, even managed to make it to a live show. The feel is decidedly different now than it was and that's 100% because they've viewed this campaign as a product. What bothered me the most was how the group's momentum completely died while forcing themselves to decide on a group name. It was a painfully obvious meta-referential moment that dragged on for far too many episodes because they HAD to get the copyright first before the game could really "begin". Vox Machina and the Mighty Nein came organically, both of them coming from strong in-universe reasoning and a sincere love for the game they were sharing in as it grew into something more. On top of just feeling slap-dash, Bell's Hells is grammatically awkward with a weak justification. It's supposedly "honoring" a literal joke character that lived far longer than he was planned for, yet the group only knew him for a day or two? Having the main game be rebranded with a subtitle similar to EXU would've allowed for a period of time to really dig in and understand how they would want to brand this properly. It all just evokes the feeling that they're more removed from this than previous campaigns, despite the genuine fun they're clearly having at the table. For reference, the M9 were officially named in episode 8 with little resistance or debate, yet it wasn't until episode 14 that the BH were first named and even then it felt forced and just kind of....'eh'.
This isn't the only example (as certain interactions in the most recent episodes show), it's just the most obviously transparent that they're viewing this campaign as a flagship product for the company. They claimed it would be different during marketing but I'm still waiting to see what that means. If it's a shorter total length then maybe a rewatch will help re-contextualize earlier parts and improve the campaign's overall standing. The limited side series could have been prepping the audience for shorter games as well, but who knows. I still passively watch when I can but I feel no loss if I miss an episode or two.
Great take on the names. The first two were "organic" and invested. The third was silly and forced. They should have been patient and let the name come organically, even if that meant waiting for awhile. I find the show fun to watch every so often, but no longer care about it as i once did. Again, great take on the situation.
Oh man, i didn't know Marvels loki whas a critter too🎉😜
I have commented. May the almighty Algorithm bless you with favor.
For me it’s the stories not being as coherent. Campaign one felt like several seasons of a single show campaign to each arc was so different going from country travel to ships and pirates to war story and so on. It feels not as conjoined.
There has been a shift in how Matt writes his adventures to focus more on emotion, but it has really hurt the story structure. Before in CR1 and a lot of CR2, a PCs "backstory quest" would be resolved by the end of the arc that focused on them. Like Percy and the Briarwoods. But now EVERY quest is backstory quest, so they can't resolve by the end of the arc, otherwise there would be no reason for that character to stay in the story. SPOILERS: (Which is basically what happened with Nott/Vex in C2. It got really hard to keep her character in the story once she got changed and got her family back.) What this has resulted in is no emotional through line. We don't know which character's story to focus on because at any moment their arc will be halted, with no resolution, to focus on someone else.
@@level3bard630 my only thought with veth was that she got a new story after changing she had to figure out how to get her family back and how to have a “work/life balance” with being an adventure and a mom. Exactly you hit my problem with it. That distractions are constant now. They are on a mission to capture a guy for there patron and now they have just ducked out of town for a full day because someone’s backstory popped up. Now he could have gotten away while they dealt with this side mission that could have been it’s own full thing if it happened at another time.
i personally liked critical role for the world building, the comedy and the interactions between players.
unfortunately, in campaign 2:
the interactions and character moments felt unnatural, like they were scripted (for example characters would be doing the dumbest thing possible even tho they should know about the consequences).
the comedy became stale rather quick as it boiled down to "let's insult Fjord's (or any white man's for that matter) masculinity" until basically the end of the campaign.
world building took a major hit too because, SOMEHOW, every straight white male in a position of power was either dumb, evil or both, all major factions were ruled by "strong independent women that need no man" (or any other LGBT member).
in all honesty i didn't even bother starting C3 (nor i watched the "the mighty Nein reunited" specials) and i won't be picking up anything else
The show is different from what you fell in love with but it is just a preference.
I fell in love during campaign 2 and campaign 1 felt inferior to me.
But I'm much less infested now in C3.
Maybe we have changed and don't have te interest for 100+ ep 4,5h show anyone?
For me, I never could get into it. And I could never adequately describe why. That zoning out and missing important details thing just kept happening. I also felt like the first episode just kinda launched straight into the middle of whatever was going on at the time. And it was difficult to keep track of it all. I'm glad people enjoy it, I'm glad its brought more people to D&D, but I never got hooked the way so many others did. I thought Vox Machina was gonna be my "in" but it was just too vulgar for my personal tastes. So I never finished that either. 🤷
in general eveyrthing that is related WOTC , i tend to go with a very long stick, also whith what what happened in the years i tend to say alsmot everything have touched woke idealogy
i have nothing against same sex relation, but damned the bullshiet propangada is enough.
Seriously what if one day we start and hetero white men and white woman parade ... i'm sure the leftist politics will start to cry. . .
I haven't watched Critical Role. My timezone isn't too suitable for watching it live, and if I'm watching VODs I'd rather start from the beginning and go through the whole backlog - except the CR backlog is just daunting, so I haven't.
In fact, I haven't watched many DnD playthroughs.
I've watched the first 6 or 7 instances of the original Acq Inc, and the first season of Dimension 20, but I fell off both wagons.
Acq Inc I think mostly because Wheaton left, later compounded by Perkins leaving. It's not that I dislike Jeremy Crawford, but Chris Perkins is Chris Perkins, you know?
D20 I think lost me with some of the whimsical scenarios. I didn't particularly like the one with the evil party, despite the spectacular cast, and the unsleeping city bored me pretty fast. I don't really know why, I mean, Brennan is Brennan is Brennan, but there's something in those shows that doesn't click for me.
D&D actual plays defintely aren't for everyone! They're a huge time commitment, and not everybody enjoys it enough for that kind of time
I started with that vox machina battle royal in december 2017 and then there was Campaign 2.
That BR was kind of... meh but okish enough.
Campaign 2 got me hooked.
There were fun chars, nott and caleb were a dreamteam. Nott and jester were a dreamteam. Fjord was the de facto leader and put everyone in the spotlight.
the other chars... you could just forget...
sorry, marisha, sorry ashley, sorry taliesin... your chars are boring AF
and then we have campaign 3...
and the only interesting and funny character is from travis.
FCG is kind of interesting... but Nott was better
fearne, imogen and laudna... you could just as well write them out and miss nothing. same goes for ashton...
also campaign 2 had recurring characters like Shikasta or that one time SPURT came into the game.
damn i still love to watch those mini sketches other artists draw about those incidents... like the one with the snapping turtle, or in that temple...
campaign 3.... i can only watch about 20 to 30 minutes before deciding i have better things to do...
the problem is its not a normal dnd game anymore. it's so theatric that it seems like a transcript to a tv show. ( if that makes sense ). it's not relatable anymore.. what makes dnd fun is the chaotic nature of the game. you can do what ever you want and shape the story to the personalities of the players. CR is the opposite now. the Over all story and plot comes first.
I got knocked off my feet for a few weeks and needed something to listen to, and that was the same time CR C2 started
Had never heard about CR, but was also just getting into playing D&D at the time
I haven’t seen all of C1, but have watched the last 1/3rd, but C2 had so much character to it
C3 seems so thought out, nearly scripted, that it’s not keeping my focus as much as C2 did in its entirety
Pertaining to C3. Annoying, unserious characters, railroading, lack of emotional connection between the characters and between the plot. Then, the meandering, boring plot. They were bored and so was I. The also tell-tale "modern" topics and themes injected into the characters and story fortold a decline in quality way before it showed itself.
I think its gotten better. Im trying to watch C1 and its a slog. C2 and C3 kept my interests.
100%
What is always in the back of my head is they have become a company making ALOT of money from many sources… yet in response we get less or sub par content (no live shows, taking a week off are examples) compared to before. Because of that knowledge while I watch I feel much more discounted from it. Who cares how nice a game room is, the games with them at 3 plastic tables was just as entertaining if not more.