For those asking why Benjamin is here, it is to ask interview questions. I appreciate this style rather than a solo lecture, because it feels more like a conversation and questions are asked that the other may not think to include to help insure clarity and understanding of those who may not have much info on the topic.
I was thinking the same. Here's a Brit teaching a Yank about things that happened in his own country. That being said, that Brit certainly taught me a bit too. Very interesting discussion, would appreciate more of this type of content.
what I like about their history content is that it's mostly a loose conversation not facts after facts after dates after dates. If you like what they are chatting about you then go read about it in depth or go watch another "only history" channel.
An interesting tidbit from our PC world, because the Niagara region in Ontario is so dependent on US tourism, the Niagara Chamber of Commerce relabeled "The War of 1812" as "The Friendly Invasion." They removed all signs and mention of the WAR in a misguided, laughable effort to not upset our deep pocketed and free spending American cousins. The new slogan was of course meaningless and an insult to our shared history.
@@compatriot852 invading canada was always about control of the northern half of the continent. Failing to take Canada meant America co-existing with a geographically larger country.
"Just because you stopped Thomas Jefferson's ambitions of conquest cold doesn't mean you won! You didn't wipe out the Founding Fathers and reestablish colonial governorship even though you weren't trying to!"
The whole British fleet in north america got wiped by a freak hurricane that also put out the flames engulfing DC.... and an american sharpshooter ended the british commander... yeah the fact that America still existed says we technically won lol
@@KopperNeoman we beat the largest army twice and jefferson was a dipshit for getting greedy. Our hegemony was established and the monroe doctrine led to a golden age of american hegemony. Even if we lost some territory we had already gained the luisianna purchase. Our losses were moot, the battle of new Orleans put Britain in their place with a DEVESTATING defeat, and the brits lost several man-o-wars and a high ranking commander with decades of experience. America lost technically, britain lost far more. Neither side really won.
This was extremely interesting. As a Canadian who grew up in the Niagara Region, the area where many of the decisive War of 1812 battles took place, this was quite familiar to me. We were taught about many of these battles, such as Queenston Heights, Stoney Creek, Lundy's Lane, etc... However, I was less familiar with the battles on the American side. In fact, I'm an alumnus of Brock University, in St. Catharines, which was named in honour of Sir Isaac Brock, one of the Canadian/British heroes of the war. Many in Canada view the War of 1812 as our Canadian War of Independence and General Brock is our version of George Washington. I only take issue with your summary of the war's conclusion, because in Canadian schools, we were taught that we (Canadians/British) won the War of 1812, because we prevented the US from absorbing Canada, or British North America. As for the Battle of New Orleans, we were taught that it was more or less an afterthought, since the war was basically over by that point. You see, how you view things all depends on your perspective.
This was fantastic. I enjoyed it greatly. While walking from the shadow of Jackson Barracks. To the Chalmette (shall-met) Battlefield. The site of the battle of N.O. it was quite something. I sat among the head stones for the last bit. Well done gents.
In 1814 we took a little trip, along with Colonel Jackson down the mighy Mississipp. We took a little bacon and we took a little beans, and fought the bloody British at the town of New Orleans. *chorus*Well we fired our guns and the British kept a coming, there wasn't as many as there was awhile ago. We fired once more and they began to tunning, on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. */chorus* We looked down the river and we saw the British come, and there must of been a hundred of them beating on the drums. They stepped so high and they made their bugles ring, but we stayed behind our cotton bales and didn't say a thing. *chorus* Ol Hickery said we can takd em by surprise if we didn't fire our muskets till we looked them in the eye. We held our fire till we seen their faces well then we opened with our squirrel guns and really gave them .. well.... *chorus* *second chorus*Well they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles, they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go. They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch them. On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mecico.*/second chorus* We fired our cannon till the barrels melted down so we grabbed an alligator and we shot another round. We filled his head with cannon balls and powdered his behind. When we touched off the powder the gator lost his.mind. *chorus* *2nd chorus*
As A Canadian the war of 1812 is very important to us and we were taught about it in school throughly. You say there was no clear winner but we in Canada do view it as a victory. Now that might be our bias talking but from our perspective it was a massive win. Despite our small size we were able to hold the line and fend off the Americans. After the great migration of the revolutionary War most people living in Canada at the time where they're because they wanted to be a part of the British empire. To this day Canada is still part of the commonwealth. If the Americans had won we wouldn't. If you define war as who conquered the the other than true no one won. If you view it as a defensive war to remain a part of Britain and to remain separate from the U.S. than its a different definition of win. Add to the fact that most of the fighting was done by the people living in Canada who were much smaller in number and equipment and it was a big triumphant part of our history. Much like World War 1 when Canada took Vimy Ridge. Something Britain and France couldn't do little Canada pulled off. The shadow of America looms large over Canada even if a lot of them don't want to admit it. Add our current Prime Minister into the mix and it doesn't help. Despite our size and strength we're often overlooked on the world stage and Canadians know this. The war of 1812 and the Canadian victories of WW1 are important to us as they are seen as shining examples of what Canadians can achieve despite the odds. When our backs are agianst the wall we can pull off near impossible victories. Victories countries much bigger and stronger than us couldn't.
@Thevictoryoverhimself The US' reason for the starting the war isn't a dumb reason though. Ultimately what the war is about for the US is defending their sovereignty. The impressment of sailors and attacking US trade is ultimately an attack on US sovereignty. It shows the British don't really view the US as a country. Had the war of 1812 not happened Britain would have probably continued to interfere with US shipping even though the Napoleonic wars are ending because it would have shown that Britain can take US goods and people and the US wouldn't do anything about it therefore there would be zero reason to stop.
To the host: You had a lot to say, and were so enthusiastic. Meanwhile, Benjamin had very little to contribute other than be a listener, but was a charitable and patient one. That dynamic worked out for my tastes.
I have a book sitting in my personal library on the War of 1812. It's in the 'still need to read' list. After this, I'm going to elevate it to the top of the list.
I went and saw the USS Constitution in Boston a few weeks ago, they seem to be doing a lot of work on her at the moment, but she was there looking very spectacular in white and black paint. Looks very powerful. The thinking was that there was no way an American navy could go toe-to-toe with the British Navy, so instead of building a lot of ships, the Americans built a few very strong frigates, among them was the USS Constitution. They were intended to beat most similar sized British ships they would go up against.
The US wasn't a complete sop when it came to naval power in this era. Before AND after the War of 1812 the US Navy made major war expeditions to what is now the coast of Libya to wail on the powers known as the Barbary Coast Pirates, who had been preying on both European shipping and even coastal towns in some regions for centuries. The Barbary Coast Pirates had assumed the US wouldn't really object to their actions, mostly on the basis that nobody ever had. The US Navy and US Marine Corps made the US displeasure with this course of action extremely clear. (This is the origin of the second line of the Marine Hymn.) During the War of 1812, the Pirate assumed the US would be too busy fighting with the British to bother with them. This was true, and the US waited until afterwards to send another war fleet to wail on them again. The British then decided that the US had a good idea and attacked the Pirates until they agreed to leave the British alone. Then the French invaded the whole region.
Did you Forget about how after they burned Washington DC, the British army was stuck marching outside, at night, during a massive thunderstorm? Allegedly lightning hit British cannons and a tornado went through part of their marching column.
The way America teaches the war of 1812 in highschool is that basically the British weren't respecting America's independence yet and kept forcibly conscripting American citizens and merchant ships for their own navy while also treating them like they were still a colony in a lot of ways. And when America started attacking conscription gangs and naval ships in their waters the British Navy decided to kind of pick up where the revolutionary war left off and teach the former colonies a lesson. Then later in college they teach that its not so much that America won the war as the British kind of just gave up and decided they couldn't afford to waste the resources on a prolonged war with America right then even though they were kind of steamrolling the American forces and didn't really see it as a real war to begin with.
The patriotic version: The Founding Fathers bested tyranny to create the greatest nation! The historical version: Britain was never tyrannical towards her colonies. She allowed the USA to exist and only fought both wars to protect her citizens.
@@KopperNeoman Eh, the way we taught about the revolutionary war when I was in school was more that it wasn't so much about the taxes or tyrannical stuff with quartering soldiers and such. It was that Britain was treating colonists as not being real British citizens and not giving the colonists any sort of real representation in British government despite expecting colonies to follow all the same laws. Basically it was about treating the American colonies in the same way they were treating their other colonies despite the majority of the American colonies being made up of British citizens or their direct descendants rather than native populations.
@@KopperNeoman well i'm a French-Canadian and we see no "heroism" in 1776 or 1812. We see heroism in our Patriotes of 1837-38 who fought against the English bullies who disrespected anything non-British....of course our Patriotes were "terrorists" for the Brits
Beau drops a full essay on the war of 1812, American politics, and European politics at the time. The Boyce of Reason, squints his eyes, moves his head like he's practicing for the role of Charles manson, and contributes the mmhmm's.
We did win. We repelled the American invasion and kept Canada British. The Amerucans goal was to take Canada from Britiain, and on that score, they failed. I know you never hear about that in the States, but it's true nonetheless.
@@terryomalley1974 if you read my comment is said “how did the British/Canadians NOT win ?” Implying I think it’s obvious they did. Unlike these two. Yes we (I’m British and Canadian) won the war retained Canada and straightened the British culture of Canada. My who comment was dedicated to refuting this silly video
@@unoriginal_username1 ok. Sorry, I did misinterpret your comment. My apologies. We agree. I too it initially as saying with all our advantages, how were we not able to win?
@@unoriginal_username1 Let's face it. The vast majority of Americans are extremely ignorant of their own country's history, much less world history. They're fed rah-rah USA propaganda all their lives, so they wrongly assume that the US is the greatest country in the world in every aspect. It's only natural that they'd think they never lost a war.
And yes, I love history too. There are always lessons to be learned and diplomacy that could have been used as opposed to battles that have been fought
Whoa, you need to reread the story of Valley Forge. The first regular military training was done by a German soldier of fortune. Hired by Washington at Valley Forge.
@1:22:10 the British left because a huge storm appeared out of nowhere and wrecked them. Some say the storm was Washington himself, coming back from the grave to once again remove the British.
My GGGG Grandfather fought in the war of 1812 as a militiaman in Virginia- he fired at the British ships as they sailed up the Potomac to attack Washington.
This isn’t his area of expertise. Benjamin is also more of the interviewer, and is extremely good at it. Asking very well thought out questions that keeps in mind that those listening may not have the same knowledge, so asking clarifying questions that many interviewers don’t think of. Perhaps that is why he is here. To interview.
I believe both is correct and the USS Constitution is still a commissioned warship. Except at the Naval Yard in Charlestown Massachusetts and is manned by Navy personnel I believe. Go check it out if you're ever in Boston it's a short walk from the North End and Boston Garden.
What!? An American has read the Patrick O'Brian novels, and the Englishman hasn't? Shame on you, Beau! Even if Patrick O'Brian disapproved of audio books, I highly recommend the ones read by Patrick Tull. They are just marvelous. Jack Aubrey only takes command of HMS Leopard in 1811-12, long after the Chesapeake-Leaopard affair, but it is mentioned in the novel "Desolation Island", the 5th book in the Aubrey-Maturin series.
The US seemed to have started the war as they saw an opportunity to grab some extra lands while we were involved in a war with France. Six days after the US declared war on Britain, Napolean invades Russia, two weeks after the US then invades Canada, we then had to withdraw some troops from fighting France to protect Canada, odd that, it was almost like they had planned it that way.
The bloodlust was Thomas Jefferson's, not the entire USA. If Britain had arrested him rather than torching the White House, that symbolism might have stuck harder. Maybe that was what was attempted.
The way the US teaches it pretty much leaves out the parts about invading Canada (as it was a massive embarrassment in the end) and rather it was more about British navy ships and press gangs conscripting Americans off of their own ships and appropriating their cargo. Really though there isn't much focus on the war of 1812 in our history classes outside of the battle of Baltimore (as its the inspiration for our national anthem) and the burning of the capital.
@@rwberger6 US Schools are state run. I elected for a lot of history classes in High school and College. They're go over the entire war including the Canadian campaign. If it seems like it gets skipped it's because ultimately it is that small a part of the overall war. That's how spectacularly it fails. And from the US' point of view the impressment and seizing of US goods really is the major point of the war. It's about establishing US sovereignty. Up until this point the US is not really treated like a country. Had the war not happened British interference in US shipping, which was vitally important to the new nation, would have continued because there would be no reason to stop.
West coast guy no wonder he knows nothing of the war. I am (formerly) British living in the southeast. They are hardcore historians here. Grammar compared to Britain is lacking even though the accent here is closer to British back then. They love their history here.
Most Americans dont remember 1812 the main reason I know besides having a general interest in history and particularly warfare is I grew up around the Baltimore area where I visited the uss constitution and fort McHenry, very cool to see... other than standard popular ignorance I think 1812 is little known because the napoleonic wars overshadowed that era, quite rightly, just compare the importance and the scale of the invasion of Russia with the invasion of Canada lol
How does one become a LotusEater? I mean, I think it's a reference to the Odyssey where some of Odysseus's crew nearly abandon their shipmates after eating the lotuses on an island on their way home...
Oh... Well, I was right. Odysseus sent a few men to check out some natives after finding land after ten days at sea during stormy weather. The crew needed fresh water; they wanted to make sure the natives were not going to attack them.. a few of the men he sent were given lotus fruit, which made them not really care about their duties. They had to be dragged back to their ship...
Yes it's a reference to the Odyssey, this was explained in great detail when Carl started the whole thing. The idea being that if you're not Odysseus, the hero of the story. Things would have been much better for you if you had stayed on the island of the lotus eaters. Because Odysseus is the only one who survives the remaining journey
Canadian here: the war of 1812 is remembered proudly here, especially the culmination of Canadians & Brits burning down the White House. Many of our folk songs are about the war and its heroes (like Laura Secord). It would be interesting to have a Canadian on the show to talk about the history of British Canada.
So Canada is proud of vengeance, arson, and swarming a completely outgunned, outmanned, and outsupplied force? They have songs and speak of this as heroism and valor?
@@kallumslack4256 That's exactly my point. Thanks for bringing that up. England up and down abuses the living hell out Americans in classless, tasteless, and shameless ways or years without fail, is repeatedly asked to stop, doesn't stop, thinks it's funny, and then gets kicked in the groin as a last resort in exactly the way you defend yourself from a global force that outguns, outmans, and outsupplies you. No, we're not proud of that. We don't have a popular song where we venerate those who did terrible things in wartime to capitalize on the enemy's mistakes in order to prevent future abuse and destruction of life. I find it shocking, personally. I'm not saying it's "unacceptable" or something, I just find it super weird that that's even a thing and find the perspective to be rather messed up and odd to point of feeling the need to bring it up. It's like a prick on a steamroller running over the other half of an already crippled dog and making songs about what a badass he was. That's sick. The commie sympathizing socialists in Canada can venerate whatever they want but that doesn't mean it isn't twisted. I see no reason to be proud of 1812. Canada wasn't even Canada at that point or even for another fifty-ish years. It was just England being treated deservedly for being a douchebag and doing douchebag things, and somehow modern Canada venerates that they're awesome? That's funny. I now find it humorous. This behavior is extremely Canadian. Discussion isn't even necessary at this point. It totally clicked for me. I get it now.
I found this funny and ironic that the enthusiastic Brit was teaching the American so much, but I enjoyed listening to the episode regardless. I think it's the Host's enthusiasm and dedication and framing it all as a story that sells it.
"15 States at the time." Louisiana had already been admitted to the Union, making it 18 States (original 13 Colonies, plus Vermont, Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio, and Louisiana).
American thanksgiving should mention Britain's colossal anti-slavery campaign. That deserves far more credit for the USA's existence in its current form than it gets.
That's honestly the most ridiculous take I've ever heard. Thanksgiving is about as far from related to slavery as something can be. Next you're going to tell me about how Putin should mention the wonders of flag football.
@speedierllama "But we’re taught in school that we ended slavery and because we ended it the rest of the world followed us." No, no we are not taught that in schools. If anything it's taught that Britain managed to abolish slavery earlier and without bloodshed while the US had to have a massive bloody civil war over it.
@@terryomalley1974 I know. I'm just saying that's how we saw it as kids. We also spent the entire evening of 9/11/2001 arguing if it was the Japanese or the Germans that attacked us lol
Haven't studied history in a while.. but I always thought the war of 1812 was over control of US currency. Jefferson disbanded the bank, Brits win war of 1812, US gets bank back
"Their was a very very very definite winner to ww2" yeah and I hate to break it to you but it wasn't the British we lost a lot the ones that gained the most were the Swiss and Americans therefore they're the winners. To say the British won is equivalent to Labour saying "We won the argument" when they lose an election.
WWII was the final nail in the coffin of an Empire that had spent a hundred plus years fighting the evils of slavery worldwide. Losing an Empire to sacrifice over decadance and rot isn't a bad way to go.
@@KopperNeoman Britain only turned against slavery because industrialization and cheap labor was for more economical. It was purely a business reason, not out of some noble goal. And those wars they had been fighting for hundreds of years were more about securing trade routes and competing with rival European countries.
@@rwberger6 No i have to disagree. If you listen to some of the arguments in parliament and read up on the relevant court cases, it was a noble and moral issue and a Christian issue for many at the time.
@@rwberger6 except slavery had been banned in England since the 11th century, meaning industrialization didn't replace slavery at all in the british empire, it replaced hand-crafting guild labour, so called cottage industries. the british ended slavery because they never really had it in the first place and had come to find it morally wrong. as efc toffee pointed out we can see this in the records of parliament and the various court cases (aswell as the public hype in the news and various diaries and letters). furthermore the british could have secured trade routes and competed with rival europeans without ending slavery (like say all the other european nations, or themselves before they decided to end the slave trade), and come off richer for it.
For those asking why Benjamin is here, it is to ask interview questions. I appreciate this style rather than a solo lecture, because it feels more like a conversation and questions are asked that the other may not think to include to help insure clarity and understanding of those who may not have much info on the topic.
I hope Beau's back is ok after carrying this whole chat.
I was thinking the same. Here's a Brit teaching a Yank about things that happened in his own country. That being said, that Brit certainly taught me a bit too. Very interesting discussion, would appreciate more of this type of content.
I really like Boyce but he seemed to be an odd choice for this "conversation" My kids know more about this war by age 10 than he seems to know.
@@sarahtar Yes! 😅
@@billding3205 he's from the northwest they aren't exactly...embracing of the idea
I continue to be amazed with Beau's knowledge. I'm a history teacher myself and I feel embarrassed in comparison.
Its all about the Benjamins! Loving your history content BB so keep em coming.
I could watch this channel for just history honestly
what I like about their history content is that it's mostly a loose conversation not facts after facts after dates after dates. If you like what they are chatting about you then go read about it in depth or go watch another "only history" channel.
Mr Boyce is the genius who coined the satirical phrase “non-compliance is violence” in reaction to the ‘Summer of George’
This was fantastic. Thank you for sharing the conversation.
Brilliant chat! The passion for history is palpable
This is the kind of content I can get behind.
Great talk, as someone who enjoys American history, I learned a few things that I did not know before. Thank you.
Enjoyed this a lot. The war of 1812 is one of my favorite things in us history but listening to a British guy talking about it was new for me. Thanks.
Now this is the type of British holiday in American I can get behind.
An interesting tidbit from our PC world, because the Niagara region in Ontario is so dependent on US tourism, the Niagara Chamber of Commerce relabeled "The War of 1812" as "The Friendly Invasion." They removed all signs and mention of the WAR in a misguided, laughable effort to not upset our deep pocketed and free spending American cousins. The new slogan was of course meaningless and an insult to our shared history.
Remember when the US invaded a country for no reason and got beat back over the border? I do...
@@jonbaxter2254 To be fair, we had reasons. They just weren’t very good reasons.
@@jonbaxter2254 Canada was a side objective. There's almost no resources to gain, so not much effort was put in
@@compatriot852 invading canada was always about control of the northern half of the continent. Failing to take Canada meant America co-existing with a geographically larger country.
that was awesome guys, thank you very much.
More History Bro, always a good thing.
Cannon orchestra intensifies
Otherwise known as the war of the “NO, WE WON THAT ONE!”
"Just because you stopped Thomas Jefferson's ambitions of conquest cold doesn't mean you won! You didn't wipe out the Founding Fathers and reestablish colonial governorship even though you weren't trying to!"
The whole British fleet in north america got wiped by a freak hurricane that also put out the flames engulfing DC.... and an american sharpshooter ended the british commander... yeah the fact that America still existed says we technically won lol
@herrikudo Thomas Jefferson's objective was to conquer Canada.
Instead, American lands at the border became Canadian. That's called "losing".
@@KopperNeoman legend haha
@@KopperNeoman we beat the largest army twice and jefferson was a dipshit for getting greedy. Our hegemony was established and the monroe doctrine led to a golden age of american hegemony. Even if we lost some territory we had already gained the luisianna purchase. Our losses were moot, the battle of new Orleans put Britain in their place with a DEVESTATING defeat, and the brits lost several man-o-wars and a high ranking commander with decades of experience.
America lost technically, britain lost far more. Neither side really won.
This was extremely interesting. As a Canadian who grew up in the Niagara Region, the area where many of the decisive War of 1812 battles took place, this was quite familiar to me. We were taught about many of these battles, such as Queenston Heights, Stoney Creek, Lundy's Lane, etc... However, I was less familiar with the battles on the American side. In fact, I'm an alumnus of Brock University, in St. Catharines, which was named in honour of Sir Isaac Brock, one of the Canadian/British heroes of the war. Many in Canada view the War of 1812 as our Canadian War of Independence and General Brock is our version of George Washington. I only take issue with your summary of the war's conclusion, because in Canadian schools, we were taught that we (Canadians/British) won the War of 1812, because we prevented the US from absorbing Canada, or British North America. As for the Battle of New Orleans, we were taught that it was more or less an afterthought, since the war was basically over by that point. You see, how you view things all depends on your perspective.
This was fantastic. I enjoyed it greatly. While walking from the shadow of Jackson Barracks. To the Chalmette (shall-met) Battlefield. The site of the battle of N.O. it was quite something. I sat among the head stones for the last bit. Well done gents.
In 1814 we took a little trip, along with Colonel Jackson down the mighy Mississipp. We took a little bacon and we took a little beans, and fought the bloody British at the town of New Orleans.
*chorus*Well we fired our guns and the British kept a coming, there wasn't as many as there was awhile ago. We fired once more and they began to tunning, on down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mexico. */chorus*
We looked down the river and we saw the British come, and there must of been a hundred of them beating on the drums.
They stepped so high and they made their bugles ring, but we stayed behind our cotton bales and didn't say a thing.
*chorus*
Ol Hickery said we can takd em by surprise if we didn't fire our muskets till we looked them in the eye. We held our fire till we seen their faces well then we opened with our squirrel guns and really gave them
.. well....
*chorus*
*second chorus*Well they ran through the briars and they ran through the brambles, they ran through the bushes where a rabbit couldn't go. They ran so fast that the hounds couldn't catch them. On down the Mississippi to the Gulf of Mecico.*/second chorus*
We fired our cannon till the barrels melted down so we grabbed an alligator and we shot another round. We filled his head with cannon balls and powdered his behind. When we touched off the powder the gator lost his.mind.
*chorus*
*2nd chorus*
Didn't run as fast as the US troops at Bladensburg (the Bladensburg Races) .... and that was actually during the war, unlike New Orleans.
@@adventussaxonum448 weak.
Jackson drubbed ya mate.
Popular song in my adopted state Tennessee.
Awesome podcast, more of these long history please
Can confirm, the War of 1812 is quite a popular historical event in Canadian schools.
Yeah...
Canadians are quite chauvinistic.
True, but virtually ignored in Aerican history in US schools. Because they lost!!!! 😁
As A Canadian the war of 1812 is very important to us and we were taught about it in school throughly. You say there was no clear winner but we in Canada do view it as a victory. Now that might be our bias talking but from our perspective it was a massive win. Despite our small size we were able to hold the line and fend off the Americans. After the great migration of the revolutionary War most people living in Canada at the time where they're because they wanted to be a part of the British empire. To this day Canada is still part of the commonwealth. If the Americans had won we wouldn't. If you define war as who conquered the the other than true no one won. If you view it as a defensive war to remain a part of Britain and to remain separate from the U.S. than its a different definition of win. Add to the fact that most of the fighting was done by the people living in Canada who were much smaller in number and equipment and it was a big triumphant part of our history. Much like World War 1 when Canada took Vimy Ridge. Something Britain and France couldn't do little Canada pulled off.
The shadow of America looms large over Canada even if a lot of them don't want to admit it. Add our current Prime Minister into the mix and it doesn't help. Despite our size and strength we're often overlooked on the world stage and Canadians know this. The war of 1812 and the Canadian victories of WW1 are important to us as they are seen as shining examples of what Canadians can achieve despite the odds. When our backs are agianst the wall we can pull off near impossible victories. Victories countries much bigger and stronger than us couldn't.
This is great 👍
More please.💖
Denmark approves 🇩🇰💪😎🇩🇰
Excellent video. I know quite a bit more about the war of 1812 now.
Fantastic video! I’d love more like this
Amazing content guys, keep it up!
I can confirm "Old Ironsides" is alive and well. New England students often go there for field trips. I did. Pretty damn cool!
It’s funny how both sides think that they won the war of 1812.
@Thevictoryoverhimself The US' reason for the starting the war isn't a dumb reason though. Ultimately what the war is about for the US is defending their sovereignty. The impressment of sailors and attacking US trade is ultimately an attack on US sovereignty. It shows the British don't really view the US as a country. Had the war of 1812 not happened Britain would have probably continued to interfere with US shipping even though the Napoleonic wars are ending because it would have shown that Britain can take US goods and people and the US wouldn't do anything about it therefore there would be zero reason to stop.
To the host: You had a lot to say, and were so enthusiastic. Meanwhile, Benjamin had very little to contribute other than be a listener, but was a charitable and patient one. That dynamic worked out for my tastes.
I have a book sitting in my personal library on the War of 1812. It's in the 'still need to read' list. After this, I'm going to elevate it to the top of the list.
Loving the in depth history content, KEEP IT UP!
I went and saw the USS Constitution in Boston a few weeks ago, they seem to be doing a lot of work on her at the moment, but she was there looking very spectacular in white and black paint. Looks very powerful. The thinking was that there was no way an American navy could go toe-to-toe with the British Navy, so instead of building a lot of ships, the Americans built a few very strong frigates, among them was the USS Constitution. They were intended to beat most similar sized British ships they would go up against.
The US wasn't a complete sop when it came to naval power in this era. Before AND after the War of 1812 the US Navy made major war expeditions to what is now the coast of Libya to wail on the powers known as the Barbary Coast Pirates, who had been preying on both European shipping and even coastal towns in some regions for centuries. The Barbary Coast Pirates had assumed the US wouldn't really object to their actions, mostly on the basis that nobody ever had. The US Navy and US Marine Corps made the US displeasure with this course of action extremely clear. (This is the origin of the second line of the Marine Hymn.) During the War of 1812, the Pirate assumed the US would be too busy fighting with the British to bother with them. This was true, and the US waited until afterwards to send another war fleet to wail on them again. The British then decided that the US had a good idea and attacked the Pirates until they agreed to leave the British alone. Then the French invaded the whole region.
We learned about Tecumseh in my school.
Did you Forget about how after they burned Washington DC, the British army was stuck marching outside, at night, during a massive thunderstorm? Allegedly lightning hit British cannons and a tornado went through part of their marching column.
American propaganda. We (Cdn/British) won the War of 1812. Full stop.
The way America teaches the war of 1812 in highschool is that basically the British weren't respecting America's independence yet and kept forcibly conscripting American citizens and merchant ships for their own navy while also treating them like they were still a colony in a lot of ways. And when America started attacking conscription gangs and naval ships in their waters the British Navy decided to kind of pick up where the revolutionary war left off and teach the former colonies a lesson.
Then later in college they teach that its not so much that America won the war as the British kind of just gave up and decided they couldn't afford to waste the resources on a prolonged war with America right then even though they were kind of steamrolling the American forces and didn't really see it as a real war to begin with.
The patriotic version: The Founding Fathers bested tyranny to create the greatest nation!
The historical version: Britain was never tyrannical towards her colonies. She allowed the USA to exist and only fought both wars to protect her citizens.
@@KopperNeoman Eh, the way we taught about the revolutionary war when I was in school was more that it wasn't so much about the taxes or tyrannical stuff with quartering soldiers and such. It was that Britain was treating colonists as not being real British citizens and not giving the colonists any sort of real representation in British government despite expecting colonies to follow all the same laws. Basically it was about treating the American colonies in the same way they were treating their other colonies despite the majority of the American colonies being made up of British citizens or their direct descendants rather than native populations.
Of course American schools would teach the pro-America history.
There's a reason no other former colony feels the same way.
@@KopperNeoman well i'm a French-Canadian and we see no "heroism" in 1776 or 1812. We see heroism in our Patriotes of 1837-38 who fought against the English bullies who disrespected anything non-British....of course our Patriotes were "terrorists" for the Brits
@@GM-db4bv your not Canadian. We both know it.
Beau drops a full essay on the war of 1812, American politics, and European politics at the time.
The Boyce of Reason, squints his eyes, moves his head like he's practicing for the role of Charles manson, and contributes the mmhmm's.
How did the British/Canadians not win? We burned down the capital of the enemy and they sued for peace.
We did win. We repelled the American invasion and kept Canada British. The Amerucans goal was to take Canada from Britiain, and on that score, they failed. I know you never hear about that in the States, but it's true nonetheless.
@@terryomalley1974 if you read my comment is said “how did the British/Canadians NOT win ?” Implying I think it’s obvious they did. Unlike these two. Yes we (I’m British and Canadian) won the war retained Canada and straightened the British culture of Canada. My who comment was dedicated to refuting this silly video
@@unoriginal_username1 ok. Sorry, I did misinterpret your comment. My apologies. We agree. I too it initially as saying with all our advantages, how were we not able to win?
@@terryomalley1974 I truly can’t believe people can ever say with a straight face that America won the war of 1812.
@@unoriginal_username1 Let's face it. The vast majority of Americans are extremely ignorant of their own country's history, much less world history. They're fed rah-rah USA propaganda all their lives, so they wrongly assume that the US is the greatest country in the world in every aspect. It's only natural that they'd think they never lost a war.
And yes, I love history too. There are always lessons to be learned and diplomacy that could have been used as opposed to battles that have been fought
Fantastic!
Yes old Iron Sides is in Boston along the Freedom Trail and you can go on it.
Whoa, you need to reread the story of Valley Forge. The first regular military training was done by a German soldier of fortune. Hired by Washington at Valley Forge.
@1:22:10 the British left because a huge storm appeared out of nowhere and wrecked them. Some say the storm was Washington himself, coming back from the grave to once again remove the British.
A Victorian nickname for Americans was 'Brother Jonathan'.
My GGGG Grandfather fought in the war of 1812 as a militiaman in Virginia- he fired at the British ships as they sailed up the Potomac to attack Washington.
Bigger than the US could field? Bigger than the WORLD could field, they just wrecked the Grand Armee, their army was huge!
I'm only 40 minutes in but I have to wonder why Benjamin is here.
This isn’t his area of expertise. Benjamin is also more of the interviewer, and is extremely good at it. Asking very well thought out questions that keeps in mind that those listening may not have the same knowledge, so asking clarifying questions that many interviewers don’t think of.
Perhaps that is why he is here. To interview.
James Lawrence is the namesake for my county
Very cool.
I believe both is correct and the USS Constitution is still a commissioned warship. Except at the Naval Yard in Charlestown Massachusetts and is manned by Navy personnel I believe. Go check it out if you're ever in Boston it's a short walk from the North End and Boston Garden.
Im a Benjamin and my dog was called BB !!
What!? An American has read the Patrick O'Brian novels, and the Englishman hasn't? Shame on you, Beau! Even if Patrick O'Brian disapproved of audio books, I highly recommend the ones read by Patrick Tull. They are just marvelous. Jack Aubrey only takes command of HMS Leopard in 1811-12, long after the Chesapeake-Leaopard affair, but it is mentioned in the novel "Desolation Island", the 5th book in the Aubrey-Maturin series.
The horrible old Leopard.
Your real name is Charles Xavier.
The US seemed to have started the war as they saw an opportunity to grab some extra lands while we were involved in a war with France. Six days after the US declared war on Britain, Napolean invades Russia, two weeks after the US then invades Canada, we then had to withdraw some troops from fighting France to protect Canada, odd that, it was almost like they had planned it that way.
The bloodlust was Thomas Jefferson's, not the entire USA.
If Britain had arrested him rather than torching the White House, that symbolism might have stuck harder. Maybe that was what was attempted.
The way the US teaches it pretty much leaves out the parts about invading Canada (as it was a massive embarrassment in the end) and rather it was more about British navy ships and press gangs conscripting Americans off of their own ships and appropriating their cargo. Really though there isn't much focus on the war of 1812 in our history classes outside of the battle of Baltimore (as its the inspiration for our national anthem) and the burning of the capital.
Let the salt flow!
@@rwberger6 US Schools are state run. I elected for a lot of history classes in High school and College. They're go over the entire war including the Canadian campaign. If it seems like it gets skipped it's because ultimately it is that small a part of the overall war. That's how spectacularly it fails. And from the US' point of view the impressment and seizing of US goods really is the major point of the war. It's about establishing US sovereignty. Up until this point the US is not really treated like a country. Had the war not happened British interference in US shipping, which was vitally important to the new nation, would have continued because there would be no reason to stop.
@@KopperNeoman Thomas Jefferson wasn't president at the time.
Andrew Jackson has entered the chat.
West coast guy no wonder he knows nothing of the war. I am (formerly) British living in the southeast. They are hardcore historians here. Grammar compared to Britain is lacking even though the accent here is closer to British back then. They love their history here.
AY UP LOTUS EATER'S
Will Boyce be on regularly?
Teschumpseh was still taught in US high Schools & Universities in the ealier 1990s, Modern US schools truly suck now
Yep
In Canada, his name was Tecumseh and he was an ally of our "Geirge Washington", General Issac Brock.
Impressment was slavery, change my mind.
The American Mad Lad President legend.
Most Americans dont remember 1812 the main reason I know besides having a general interest in history and particularly warfare is I grew up around the Baltimore area where I visited the uss constitution and fort McHenry, very cool to see... other than standard popular ignorance I think 1812 is little known because the napoleonic wars overshadowed that era, quite rightly, just compare the importance and the scale of the invasion of Russia with the invasion of Canada lol
It doesn't seems that way to us Canadians. For us,we defeated the Americans and prevented Canada from being absorbed into the US.
How does one become a LotusEater? I mean, I think it's a reference to the Odyssey where some of Odysseus's crew nearly abandon their shipmates after eating the lotuses on an island on their way home...
Oh... Well, I was right. Odysseus sent a few men to check out some natives after finding land after ten days at sea during stormy weather. The crew needed fresh water; they wanted to make sure the natives were not going to attack them.. a few of the men he sent were given lotus fruit, which made them not really care about their duties. They had to be dragged back to their ship...
Yes it's a reference to the Odyssey, this was explained in great detail when Carl started the whole thing. The idea being that if you're not Odysseus, the hero of the story. Things would have been much better for you if you had stayed on the island of the lotus eaters. Because Odysseus is the only one who survives the remaining journey
The War of 1812 because the excursion into Quebec in 1775 went so well 🤦♂️
Pretty sure there were 20 states or 18 maybe in 1812.
Canadian here: the war of 1812 is remembered proudly here, especially the culmination of Canadians & Brits burning down the White House. Many of our folk songs are about the war and its heroes (like Laura Secord).
It would be interesting to have a Canadian on the show to talk about the history of British Canada.
Come all ye bold Canadians and lend yourself an ear!
So Canada is proud of vengeance, arson, and swarming a completely outgunned, outmanned, and outsupplied force? They have songs and speak of this as heroism and valor?
@@danorris5235 like the yanks cutting soldiers throats in their sleep on Christmas?
@@kallumslack4256 That's exactly my point. Thanks for bringing that up. England up and down abuses the living hell out Americans in classless, tasteless, and shameless ways or years without fail, is repeatedly asked to stop, doesn't stop, thinks it's funny, and then gets kicked in the groin as a last resort in exactly the way you defend yourself from a global force that outguns, outmans, and outsupplies you.
No, we're not proud of that. We don't have a popular song where we venerate those who did terrible things in wartime to capitalize on the enemy's mistakes in order to prevent future abuse and destruction of life.
I find it shocking, personally. I'm not saying it's "unacceptable" or something, I just find it super weird that that's even a thing and find the perspective to be rather messed up and odd to point of feeling the need to bring it up.
It's like a prick on a steamroller running over the other half of an already crippled dog and making songs about what a badass he was. That's sick. The commie sympathizing socialists in Canada can venerate whatever they want but that doesn't mean it isn't twisted.
I see no reason to be proud of 1812. Canada wasn't even Canada at that point or even for another fifty-ish years. It was just England being treated deservedly for being a douchebag and doing douchebag things, and somehow modern Canada venerates that they're awesome?
That's funny. I now find it humorous. This behavior is extremely Canadian. Discussion isn't even necessary at this point. It totally clicked for me. I get it now.
@@kallumslack4256 You mean the Hessian mercenaries?
BBQ’s at the White House are the best BBQ’s
Tie goes to the defender.
The day of the Rake will come............
you should also have the brothers Ben & Bo Winegard on 😄
Niagara Falls! Slowly, I turned...
How is there know Canadian on this show?
You don't want one of us on this panel. We get really silly over this one sometimes
So, what is the point of Boyce being here? Barely seems to have heard of the war of 1812 lol
This was on Boyce's stream a few days ago.
I found this funny and ironic that the enthusiastic Brit was teaching the American so much, but I enjoyed listening to the episode regardless. I think it's the Host's enthusiasm and dedication and framing it all as a story that sells it.
That was a cultural divide first economic second
"15 States at the time."
Louisiana had already been admitted to the Union, making it 18 States (original 13 Colonies, plus Vermont, Tennessee, Kentucky, Ohio, and Louisiana).
I thought twenty but Massachusetts hadn't split yet either
American thanksgiving should mention Britain's colossal anti-slavery campaign. That deserves far more credit for the USA's existence in its current form than it gets.
Does OP know what Thanksgiving is? No. First big clue is calling it "American" Thanksgiving. There's only one. All others are secondary at best.
That's honestly the most ridiculous take I've ever heard. Thanksgiving is about as far from related to slavery as something can be. Next you're going to tell me about how Putin should mention the wonders of flag football.
@speedierllama "But we’re taught in school that we ended slavery and because we ended it the rest of the world followed us." No, no we are not taught that in schools. If anything it's taught that Britain managed to abolish slavery earlier and without bloodshed while the US had to have a massive bloody civil war over it.
Very intresting but unfortunatley overshadowed by a certain short dictator in Europe...
1:11:49 on-tear-ee-oh
Is he just terrified to speak thinking this is a trap or something? That's the feeling I get.
The PNW vibe is often confused for Canadian
30:38 😑
Oh shit
The 5th of July XDXDXD
Fact: the British sailors who fought in Trafalgar were mostly pressganged and were not let off ship for 3 years!!!
Mexican American war then if you think as much
Growing up in America, we always assumed that America won the war of 1812 because otherwise we would've become British subjects again.
"We tried to conquer Canada and got our cheeks clapped, but we totes won because the revolutionaries weren't completely wiped out"
Nope. The point is the Americans were the aggressors who tried to invade Canada. And we repelled them. Therefore, we (Can/Brit) won the War.
@@terryomalley1974 I know. I'm just saying that's how we saw it as kids. We also spent the entire evening of 9/11/2001 arguing if it was the Japanese or the Germans that attacked us lol
@@terryomalley1974 It's quite more complicated than that, don't be so knee-jerk defensive.
@@ricardocastillo5485 First, I'm not being defensive. Just stating the truth. More complicated you say? Do elaborate.
Please don’t molest alligators with ordinance
Came here to listen about French invasion of Russia. Was severely disappointed.
British won, hands down. The colony of Canada won Niagara Falls. We have the better falls!
Fact Check: True
+1 comment
Haven't studied history in a while.. but I always thought the war of 1812 was over control of US currency. Jefferson disbanded the bank, Brits win war of 1812, US gets bank back
No, it was about US desire to take Canada from Britiain, and onnthat score, they lost.
On-tear-e-o
British cant pronounce anything to do with it's former colonies.
The invasion of Montreal failed mostly due to poor logistics than anything. At least that's the story we Americans went with.
Its easy your too courteous lol
would it be safe to say the war of 1812 made the usa a regional power?
Safe to say the War of 1812 kept Canada British and gave us a distinct identity as British Americans.
"Their was a very very very definite winner to ww2" yeah and I hate to break it to you but it wasn't the British we lost a lot the ones that gained the most were the Swiss and Americans therefore they're the winners. To say the British won is equivalent to Labour saying "We won the argument" when they lose an election.
WWII was the final nail in the coffin of an Empire that had spent a hundred plus years fighting the evils of slavery worldwide.
Losing an Empire to sacrifice over decadance and rot isn't a bad way to go.
@@KopperNeoman Britain only turned against slavery because industrialization and cheap labor was for more economical. It was purely a business reason, not out of some noble goal. And those wars they had been fighting for hundreds of years were more about securing trade routes and competing with rival European countries.
@@rwberger6 No i have to disagree. If you listen to some of the arguments in parliament and read up on the relevant court cases, it was a noble and moral issue and a Christian issue for many at the time.
@@rwberger6 except slavery had been banned in England since the 11th century, meaning industrialization didn't replace slavery at all in the british empire, it replaced hand-crafting guild labour, so called cottage industries.
the british ended slavery because they never really had it in the first place and had come to find it morally wrong. as efc toffee pointed out we can see this in the records of parliament and the various court cases (aswell as the public hype in the news and various diaries and letters).
furthermore the british could have secured trade routes and competed with rival europeans without ending slavery (like say all the other european nations, or themselves before they decided to end the slave trade), and come off richer for it.
Sweet Transvestite...