Game Design Patterns for Building Friendships
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2024
- In this 2018 GDC session, Spry Fox's Daniel Cook explains how to keep human beings from being treated as interchangeable, disposable or abusable when designing multiplayer games.
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'Then we're going to say, "here are some examples in games." Some practical boring game examples. Mechanics, systems that sort of thing.
HELL YES!!! I LOVE "practical boring game examples. Mechanics, systems that sort of thing."
I found this model very very interesting. When listening I was thinking about a social game I play a lot (Sky: Children of the Light by TGC) and trying to analyze it using these levels of friendship.
Proximity: All locations in Sky are free join and free leave rooms. Sky manages density by having a max cap of 8 people in one location, but usually you will get about 4-6 players. If there's less, they get automatically merged into an another room at the same position they were before, so it's seamless.
There are events that usually occur in a little area and everyone is in that little area together. You also need to go through locations daily and do tasks there daily. But Repeat Encounters are only possible for the strangers in one room, so if you don't friend anyone and leave, you're never seeing them again.
Similarity: All avatars are kids who are in this world to bring light to the end destination, so everyone has the same goal and similar experience in a shared environment. Also the environment is mostly an ambient coop, so if you melt a darkness plant for a reward, that plant gets melted for all the others in the same room and they also receive the reward.
You can distinguish a newbie from an experienced player by the cosmetics they have, but you cannot see the cosmetics of strangers, so initially everyone looks the same to you.
Reciprocity: When you first meet a stranger, they are just a dark figure, not different from any other, and to see and interact further one of you has to make an offer by pulling our their flame and another should accept it by pulling their out too.
I find it interesting that players have developed sort of an etiquette: when you "light" each other, it is polite to use the bow emote and that's like an unwritten rule that you learn by imitating. I am actually astonished by how easily this can turn into trust, for example, you use a spin emote, they also use it, and then you both laugh. After a couple more exchanges of emotes, they may run along with you or offer to become friends.
To friend each other, you need to invest some of the in-game currency, and to unlock chat you need to invest even more. Here we go to the next one:
Disclosure: The chat (and everything else) is unlocked only if you are accepting the offer to unlock it. This prevents unwanted disclosure. I actually had a friend who did a "no" emote when I offered chat. I didn't persist, and we played together for a couple of days, using emotes to communicate. One day they offered the chat themselves.
*power of friendship intensifies*
I usually can't sit through these talks because they either miss the point of their own talk entirely or don't provide enough concrete/structured information, instead choosing to try and dissect their own organic processes.
But this talk... This talk should be used to teach people how to give a conference talk. As I sit here writing this comment, being late for work sounds more appealing than pausing this video midway.
18 minutes in and I feel like this is an amazing talk. It explains all the problems I've seen with mmos and online games just with the density portion. Why doesn't WOW instanced dungeons create friendships? Well because you never see them again. Low density. Why don't friendships form in league more often? Well, first you're hardly ever going to see the same people. Only sometimes will you get the same person twice in a row because it's at a low player population time. Why was Everquest 2 terrible for making friends? The zones were GIGANTIC and they just kept adding more and more of them until you literally never saw another human being unless you return to a hub.
I hope this talk sticks with me. The details may not but I'm sure it will be something to come back to in the future.
Interesting topic... then he brings up that he helped make RotMG and I know he knows what he's talking about!! I don't know if it currently is the same but Realm of the Mad God did something VERY right with the Co-Op experience that I still have never seen replicated before. Kudos to you Daniel Cook. I am very much enjoying this lecture.
Brilliant ideas on how to improve the social aspect of gaming, thanks for sharing! The description of cold-weather communities was so accurate I kept chuckling the whole time. xD
I can't help thinking about real-life applications for a lot of this information. Maybe that's why I clicked on the video to begin with? I've been really bad at making and maintaining friendships for most of my adult life.
Bruh I can relate a lot, i even toke a bunch of screenshots for my future self... hope things are better now
@@lelepao Hope you guys are doing well! It's been 5 years for one of you, 3 years for the other.
Good talk! Too bad the audience couldn't appreciate Mr. Cook's jokes. I was surprised to see GW2 show up there, but it makes all sorts of sense. Other than the map and event systems Mr. Cook talked about, GW2 also makes the experience of killing things and getting loot an inherently cooperative one.
With more people you can kill mobs faster and you all get a loot and xp opportunity from the mob. Same goes for gathering, everyone can gather once from the same node. These things help make GW2 a friendly place that is regarded as having one of the friendliest communities in MMOs.
Just... just don't go into PVP.
Amazing and very insightful talk - almost skipped this video when listening to the kind of weak opening
I have been trying to remember what roguelike multiplayer I played back in uni for years and for the life of me I could not. Then this guy just casually throws out "Realm of the Mad God" and bam that was it! Loved that game, though he was right. Too many people in it so I didn't make any friends.
This is a great talk
Such a fancy old man, I like him and his sense of humor
Man the jokes don't hit with this crowd but just having the opportunity to listen to these talks makes the cringe worth it
Most microphones barely record the audience, think of how easily they stop recording the speakers themselves when they step away from it. I'm confident the crowd was laughing.
@@rikamayhem Ah the classic, the microphones couldn't pick up all the applause and laughter I was getting. I was just trying to throw a joke into the comment to spice it up but clearly mine fell flat too ;-;
@@sirprotagonist1320 Well, that last one was funny.
@@rikamayhem Humour by volume. The more jokes I make the more that have a chance to land OMEGALUL
This is incredibly insightful. Rubbed me the wrong way when he started with “I don’t love games” and was wrong in my assumption of the validity of his points
I had a mad epiphany thanks to this talk
What was the epiphany?
The world may never know...~
The opening jokes were HILARIOUS. I have no idea why no one laughed
hearing "social distancing" today
I'm from Maine too! What he says is true.
Steambirds Alliance added to my wishlist.
Does anybody know whether these lessons have been applied to the design of social media and moderation on social media?
Great talk!! 🎉😁
Any recommendation for games that apply these concept?
I don't own a hammer.
Why don't I own a hammer?
I've lived here for two years, I should own a hammer by now. So why don't I?!
How could I have gone this long without realizing it?!
What sheer fluke of fate has led me to never notice that I did not own a hammer?!!
Have I just never needed one? No. I've used a hammer. Where did I get that hammer?
Oh god. Where DID I get that hammer?! I must have borrowed it. Did I give it back?
Yes. I did. I just checked. I really don't have a hammer in my house.
Why do I have four screwdrivers, though? I don't need four screwdrivers.
What was I even trying to do with that many screwdrivers? I guess I thought I lost one.
Three times...
Wait. DID MY HAMMER BECOME A SCREWDRIVER?!!! No. That doesn't make sense.
Nevermind. I don't know. I should just go buy a hammer.
I guess.
Bye.
What did I just read?
i dont know any of these games, but they appear interesting
Here's a free idea: Elevators. You're welcome.
Sorry, Gmod already did that, there's literally a game mode where you go in an elevator with random people, and it actually works
"classism"
"If item was purchased with real money"
SAVE THE WHALES!!
I had this issue of wanting both to downvote and upvote... I for example really LOVE real identities in games - even when people play them out. Also like seeing nations with friendly bonds like Polish people coming online when I am Hungarian.
Actually thinking that real identities must be somewhat shielded away and exchanged with random made up ones are pretty sad - even when not doing real identitities I prefer the made up ones to be related to real ones even in distant (like sci-fi) settings. Not this is what is to be feared, but general behaviours. For example just try to think outside of the box for a while and try to build "tools" like this that makes those people work together - maybe you can have more possibility to fix bad identity clashes or mitigate them in real life too or even create friend-groups between identities. Why that is not your goal but trying to ignore out the problem just because it takes effort to solve and new tools to solve? That was my issue throughout the talk.
Also remember: It was not those who try to keep identities up who create the wars but those who want identities to go away. Wanting to avoid and make all real identities barren means waging war with... everyone at once... Maybe it looks like a more civilized war but that is war my friend.
Otherwise good talk with reasonable tools. I also highly dislike matchmaking systems taking over nowadays.... so much kills the social aspect when I compare it to how things were with jumping to servers and finding "home servers" to always go back to and play on... I remember there were around 3-4 servers of urban terror where I always went back and that is also how I got into clans. What is also interesting is that "maps" can help too for example! In age 2 I preferred playing nomad, others who prefer that too I met more regularly because they also always end up showing up in nomad rooms. Then of course there are people who not only play that and maybe we try out other maps together, etc....
Also matchmaking tries to make people shielded away from meeting "too powerful" players. But to be honest most "too powerful" players will go to their own pro rooms or servers anyways. However you sometimes meeting people who are immensely better can also build friendships with some comrades who fight together with you for some survival It is just cool to do is and natural. There can be also this "padavan-master" relationships too, which i saw multiple times happening in old games where these things are still possible because there is no matchmaking.
I already mentioned maps but here is an other one: For some Urban terror servers I choose to go there always because they had a very good map cycle that "fit my taste too". There were other places that fit other peoples taste better or not at all interesting to me. Also I always went to this "paladinwarriors" server - where later I also became clan member actually and not before, not after ever I was in any clan in any game whatsoever - because they had this honour, loyalty, respect codex of how to behave, a kind of personality to their clan and so on. with matchmaking this is so harder to get into - I mean okay when it comes to e-sports there are clans still, but that is for a different purpose and I feel back then when I gamed more in less modern times there was more of this social aspect...
Yeah, good luck making competitive games without the Matches trope lol.
yeah, saying friendship is magic does sound cool. but being against a public chat is just dumb, lots of multiplayer games die because of this.
Yeah? Any spring to mind in particular? Would enjoy hearing the story of some counter-examples.
Interested in hearing examples as well.
58:58 Did you really even watch this? He's not against public chat, he's advocating that it be implemented conscientiously.
Honestly, this is quite bad talk. The reason to this is because he started saying he did a lot of research from the two guys at the start and that what they found has been proven again and again. So it leads you to believe this talk will reference tons of good science. But it doesn't. This talk barely directly reference any science (non I believe). And almost everything he says is just straight up opinions. And he doesn't often explain the whys of it either. For instance near the end th-cam.com/video/voz6S7ryWC0/w-d-xo.html, where he says it's anti pattern to design your game without social structures, then try to retrofit it afterwards. And that it's almost impossible, but Riot Games did a great job with it with League of Legends. Then he says we should applaud them for such a good job. But doesn't explain what they did that was good. Yeah, you get this all of the talk. So bad. Also he says he won't joke too much, yet he's trying to be funny all the time (and doesn't really succeed because when the talk is bad, the jokes are bad too).
Very wrong on the count of enforcing fairness to create trust. When you enforce fairness in your game trust no longer matters. See WoW where scammers are banned vs EVE Online where scamming is encouraged. EVE has created communities and friendships like no other game.
Yeah, friendships for scamming...
36:10 isn't this quiet racist thing to say?
The way the guy says it at the start is like "Nah fun is second - we're inclusive - diverse first!" Weird flex, paraphrasing. "Make a game to change the world".... Like thats a bit ideological. FASHION is a good way to tell a lot about you. ERP-ers for instance. Just a glance is a dead giveaway. Talking, being friendly... it just sorta happen. JUST not being part of a guild you get approached a lot. You explain yourself (why you accept or not) and it snowballs. 30:46 Well he approached that there, my bad. uwu