Curved Copper Cupola Roof Mini Series Part 4
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- Picking up from last week with more carpentry to finish fleshing out the interior and exterior shapes I continue on to the roof sheeting. Over the years I've put together quite a few unique roof structures but this one had me smiling the whole time because I was able to do it in the comfort of my shop and not 40' in the air in the blazing sun 2 hours from home. Thanks as always for watching and I'll see you next week to start the cladding.
-Jake
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Great skills, Jake.
It never gets old watching you build.
This gets my seal of approval. nice build and its great to learn new ways of doing things from watching your channel.
Awesome, Thanks!
Thanks for taking the time to film this mate, you know we ain't that far away from people either 3D printing or CAD milling this kind of stuff out of foam because no one remembers or is capable of building it from scratch, what you're doing here is really important.
My pleasure man, I was just thinking the same thing driving home from work sort of crafting a response to another comment that was too long to do from my phone. In the end its really only a few simple math equations but its all about how they are applied. I know there are people that could design this to be put together with tabs and slots and locking joints on a cnc router but Is it all really necessary?
Not every project needs to be hit with the smart hammer, sometimes they just need to be hit smartly with a hammer:-)
But. These things are so one off that who in a production environment wants to touch it. Cnc is by definition a production environment. Additive Printing slightly different but still about making several parts. Set up times for cnc are long. Hence manual machining being a thing still. Making one part still easier manually. Yes there are craftsmen that use computers for one off projects but not the norm yet.
@@benlund3905 I agree with all of this. The 'instagram effect' (sparks flying , snap fits) can make is seem like it's the only way to get things these days. There's still plenty of stuff getting built every day without it. I guess guys like us are safe for a while longer :-)
@@ShredPile that said, just lost employee of 6 years to timber framer company that is a huge warehouse with cnc machines and multiple assembly crews. They make to plan, ship to location, crew assembles at jobsite. Seem to do custom homes and commercial work…so who knows. Glad I do remodeling on 1900-1950 houses. Nothing ever goes to original plan. I’ve seen 12’ load bearing walls made of 4 laminated layers of 1/4” packing crate. 3 story houses framed with 2x4 on the flat. You name it. No cnc gonna fix that.
@@ShredPile For sure the modern way of doing things smart stick, is unnecessary, but for many reasons change is inevitable and sooner or later the previous time honoured ways disappear like Blacksmithing and spring making. Here's an example, I asked my cousin, a Blacksmith, why 6 ft crow bars are now so easy to bend and are soft like cheese. Ron said, what was I talking about and how many sides on the bar stock, I said 6 sides and thats all you can buy now, thats all they sell, his reply, there's your problem 6 sided bars are high tensile, if you want true bar steel it would need to be special ordered from the UK because it's not stocked in NZ and bar steel is actually 8 sided not 6, other than that try and find an old repeat old railway workers bar and a blacksmith to re-point it and temper the ends, I was stunned. A Blacksmith just knows this shit and his shit and now sadly blacksmithing is almost a craft industry, as far as I know Ron was the last apprentice and the old shop has been closed for years, the knowledge dies with him. That entire industry has been mutilated because higher and higher output numbers created with smarter and smarter machines for less and less cost shoved them to the sideline. So I say thank Christ for old guys with the skill learned and ability .... that like you, share it in one form or another before it's too late and Skynet roots us, cos it will make no mistake. Cheers big ears.
Just casually watching along and then BAM at the end Mr. Magic Man does some witchy thing with a piece of sheet metal as a guide to cut even kerfs into plywood and it dawns on us omg he’s doing that to make it flexible. Holy crap Jake!
Lol, what would the Hogwarts spell be I wonder?
I know! Parallelius Curvonium!
Sir, you are true craftsman
@@samuelrathbone9096 I appreciate that :-)
Well done 👍. I really like your style.
@@paulbadger6336 thanks man!
19:33 just causally grins and nods at his amazing framing skills that the numbers add up on all sides.
Lol, i went back and looked. Pretty sure I was thinking that I got lucky again :-)
You posted this one early! Nice kerf cuts on the last vert sheeting. Your teaser for the next post is beautiful!! As always Jake, Good Post!
@@robertsimmons3556 hey Robert, thanks! I had to leave for work a little early so I set it to go public at 6 AM. figured I’d catch the early crowd before they went to work:-)
@@ShredPile I like your kerf cut guide!
@@robertsimmons3556 Patent Pending!
A careful scrutiny is required, techniques freely revealed in many aspects of fabrication are to be had, watch closely at each step. I marvel at your phantasia as you pluck details out of your memory, fun to watch especially for those of us who lack the ability. Thanks again for your generosity.
@@Verstore I appreciate the kind words friend, I would have to think, though that if one can recognize a quality then they themselves would probably possess it and apply it equally in their own chosen field:)
Thanks for sticking with the channel.
Now this is getting very interesting!! Slicker than snot on a log! Have you been laying on your back painting the Sistine Chapel during your coffee breaks?? Your artistic talents are impressive, you would have been right at home with the Italian giants. You were probably a consulting artist for the original arch as well as the medieval churches!!
Lol, funny:-) I remember being miffed that I never got called back up once we got the pyramids done. Must've been something I said:-)
Nice to see the flesh added to the skeleton :) Looking forward to seeing the skin going onto the flesh after seeing the teaser at the end :)
@@paulhammond7489 only a week to wait!
Great trick you used to make parallel scarf joints in the plywood to make it flexible. Curious if you ever used that flexible plywood before. First time I seen it was on This Old House, and they called it Wacky Wood on there. Used it on a porch roof that had the same kind of curved roof like this cupola. Gonna need a huge crane to lift that roof into place. Gonna be heavy as hell with as beefy as you're making it, lol. Anyway, thanks for sharing this project Jake. Has been a great series.
@@george8873 I have used that bender Plywood before, but on a project with a much tighter radius. Where I curved this plywood it was just about flattened out and I couldn’t quite get the three-quarter inch to lay in there just with screws. I don’t even remember where I got the stuff when I used it, the lumberyard might’ve ordered it for me. I think it was half inch.
Boy that was a lot of work,very well constructed I might say! Nice Jake!
@@bradleyschneider3871 thanks!
Consistently impressive!
Love it so much keep it up as always 💘
@@president2 thanks Chuck!
Another great magic.
@@temyraverdana6421 thank you!
After seeing this video and the many others, I am wondering if you also teach students or other persons. Your talent and knowledge are quite remarkable and also unique.
Hey thanks for that. I do not have anything like that going although I feel like I am on a lot of peoples 'phone a friend' list and consult on a lot of things either to get the trickier parts of projects started or back on track. There is a house building program at the local highschool that some other industry pro's and I help with a couple days a year to get the trusses up safely so the students can see that process in action and work to brace and then finish them on thier own.
@@ShredPile very good. I know teaching requires some skills I personally do not have: patience. Whatever you decide, your video and inclusive explanations are welcome and appreciated. Also thank you for your well thought response. Wish you a great day/evening. Michel
Not to worry, I believe the internet was down for a time about then.
What’s with the modern house? When will we see more on that?
Are you going to cover this with copper? I would. Oops! Spoke too soon.
Hi Jack nice to see the progress and i'm curious to know what is the weigth of this part of the cupola with the copper installed ?
@@sokoul I figured it somewhere between 1750 and 2000 pounds
Have you told us where this is going?? Apologies if I missed (skipped)it. 😮
@@Aidan-tu4un I think I mentioned it in the first episode description. It’s for a private client and the series is build only. That’s part of the reason that it’s a mid week series instead of my regular Thursday.
I am curious, is this your design or is there an architect or engineer? There is so much going in this design and I am impressed with what it takes to make this structurally sound.
I suppose in the end I am both the architect and engineer. Once the client provided his wish list of items to include we worked out the finer details as I designed the structure around fitting it all in. Once that was done the engineer of record on the larger project indicated he had zero issues with it and asked only for a sketch with the basic details on it. There were plenty of design cues on the project to follow and the client is extremely adept at communicating what he desires from an artistic and design standpoint. Total pleasure to work with.
As each cross section of constant elevation is just a square, and the jacks only have to conform to the outer surface, not the inner, it's easy to see how to make the jack from the "common" pattern (the 4 first). Each jack is just the bottom front portion of the common pattern. But is there a way to physically make the hip pattern by referencing off the common pattern? Or do you have to just do something like measure some points on the inner and outer curves of the common pattern, scale the horizontal coordinate of each point by a factor of sqrt(2), plot the scaled points on a new piece of plywood, and connect the scaled points with smooth curves?
Man this is a great question, thanks so much for asking! The answer in general is yes and I will explain but I will also explain afterwards why it was not applicable in this particular instance.
If you take the curve of of the large 'common' rafter and convert or distill it to a chord length and total height at the center of the chord length to the bottom of the arch you can then use the factor for 45* which is 1.4142136 and multiply it by the chord lenth. Using this new chord length and the original 'height' you can calculate a new radius for the 'hip' rafter. That calculation is called 'finding the radius of a portion of a circle' and it is the square of half the chord plus the square of the height divided by twice the height. (You can check this by using a 36" circle as an example. if the chord lengh is 36 and half that would be 18 then 18x18= 324 plus the square of the height- again 18x18=324 for 648 then divided by twice the height which would be 36 and you get an anwer of 18 which is the radius of a 36" circle.)
This works for any portion below the full radius of any circle or arch. As long as the upper and lower origin/termination points are in the correct geometric places it doesn't matter what angle either of the arches are tipped at, they should work.
So as to what I did here and why it didn't work it was because it was a blended arch in that the upper and lower portions were similar but seperate radii that were faired toghether to make the common pattern. To create the hip I simply placed a rough blank in the correct hip location and then placed another common rafter in juxtapostion to the first and scribed over them to trace the hip arch. It worked well enough and only needed minor tuning with a sander.
Again, thanks for the question and also for keeping up with the channel. Its appreciated and it helps it grow.
@@ShredPile Hmm, I'm not completely sure I'm following your terminology, but I think you're saying that if a portion of a curve is in fact an arc of a circle, you can determine that circle's radius using the straight line distance between the endpoints of the arc, plus the maximum orthogonal distance between that chord and the arc (which will occur at the midpoint of the chord), which is certainly true. But if a portion of the outer curve of the common pattern is in fact an arc of a circle, then the corresponding part (subsuming the same vertical expanse) of the curve of the the hip would be a portion of an ellipse of eccentricity sqrt(2), where the major axis of the ellipse is horizontal. So I'm not following the part about the radius of the hip pattern, it won't be circular.
As to my original question, I was wondering about a procedure without using much or any math to take an arbitrary outer curve common pattern and create the corresponding outer curve of the hip pattern. Which you could do if you could just stretch the pattern by a factor of sqrt(2) in the horizontal direction. That is the effect your scribing method has (I infer you used a level that you kept level and that rode along two parallel copies of the common pattern). You could also do something similar using a dot laser with and a single copy of the common pattern flat on the floor, assuming you could suspend the hip blank above it at a 45 degree angle, with the edges corresponding to the central axis coinciding.
Thanks for the taking the time to answer.
@@maths9085 I think you and I are on the same page with how the hip can be cut to fit without using maths and your description of using the laser to shoot up to a suspended hip is cool and led me to think about the rerverse of that being possible to suspend the common flat and level over a hip blank and use a plumb bob to plot points.
It's my turn now to have a little trouble with the terminology but what i'm saying about calulating the hip radius is this; If you drew a straight line on the common pattern between the ends of the radius chord you would just then have a normal geometric shape that would look like a standard rafter it would have a start and stop point and a rise and a run would be known. From that it is normal roof math to calculate what the Hip length and placement would be just like every roof everywhere correct? If you then plotted a point in from the center of this line on the common pattern as your max radius then the common radius can be calculated and thereby that point could also be mathmatically placed on the hip pattern and at least that portion of the hip pattern would be plotted for it's arc. You could continue to break this down to quarter and eighth section to plot the hip radius.
I feel like I framed a single hip this way on a fancy house years ago with a much gentler curve and it worked well enough to complete the roof and move on. It all does have my curiosity piqued tho and I may take a few minutes to mock this up on a small scale with some plywood. If I do i'll make a short out of it and @ you on it :-)
@@ShredPile If I'm following your description correctly, you seem to be assuming that a circular arc on the common will yield a circular arc on the hip but of a different radius. It does not, it yields an elliptical arc, whose minor radius matches the common radius (and the minor axis is vertical), and whose major radius is sqrt(2) times as large (and the major axis is horizontal). You can visualize this as a cylinder that's cut transversely (giving you a circular arc as on the common) or cut at a 45 (giving you an elliptical arc as on the hip).
I believe you. The whole conversation got me thinking and I’ve been paper doodling since I pulled into the job today :-) i’ve worked out a way to plot any point that I want from the common template to the hip template but like you, I’m not satisfied with not being able to do it completely with a math equation without the physical reality of fairing those points together. I’m gonna keep working on it as time permits since I have another one of these to do, smaller but with a steel frame instead of a wood frame.
Thanks for the thought exercise :-)
Ever use wackywood? TOH used it for just what you are doing. It was exterior and you said drywall, so maybe not applicable.
@@glenlongstreet7 I think the Drywall I mentioned was for the barrel vault inside of the roof. Another comment or mentioned wacky wood and TOH as well:-)
Is this to sit atop of the Folly Barn?
@@Z-Bart nope! Separate projects entirely.
@@ShredPile It does seem a bit overwhelming for the Folly Barn. Lol. Same curves/design though.
@@Z-Bart they’re both definitely curvy. I’ll probably end up doing some sort of topper or weathervane on the barn, but I don’t know exactly what yet. Some projects turn out better if you just let them develop :-)