I've decided not to continue using Facet for now. As for my wife should I go to that great big mutual fund in the sky, I'm undecided. I'd like to see their financial planning services improve a bit. That said, I would be comfortable having Facet manage our investments in my absence.
Great video, had me hooked for a while until the piece about the lack of Roth conversion and Social Security planning. If you ever find a competitor that does that, PLEASE make a video! Facet is a swing and miss.
Rob, I believe everyone should have basic knowledge of personal finance and learn to manage his/her own portfolio. Suze O always said you want to find the best advisor - look at the mirror.
@@gdb5843 You are right and wrong. I am a DIY person. My wife has no interest except loves to see the money tree growing without even adding water. So, I should be thrilled to have this service after my death. Except, I don't know when that is and when to plan
Your experience with Facet is exactly the same as mine (I signed up for Plus). I did the initial consultation was fine. The three scenarios are 'hard coded' such that if you pick one and then decide to evaluate another scenario, you can't. And as you mentioned, you can't tweak your scenario. I told them up front I was sticking with Fidelity and was not going to transfer my accounts to them. I received constant emails/reminders to transfer my accounts. What I wanted from them was advice on possible Roth conversions, the asset mixes I should have both in and outside of my IRA, medicare plan options, and things like that. Things just went quiet on their end and I felt like I had to chase them to get support. I've only been with them 6 months, but I'm questioning the value. Thanks for the video.
I had a very similar situation and experience. While their investment advice was helpful (I needed to diversify a singular stock position but did not intend on having Facet directly manage our accounts), the planning components were weak. During the year I was a member (Complete), I ramped up my own knowledge base and when it came time to renew, I simply could not justify the expense - at any of their levels. I also was not impressed with their software. I'm using Maxifi; Boldin; even a freebie to RightCapital and found that Facet's software simply paled in comparison. So I'm now officially a retirement DIYer -- thanks to all the great resources, like Rob Berger's channel and many others.
Thanks for this response. I have not signed up with them yet but am doing a deep dive on them, so far things look impressive and the first sales call yesterday was good too. Your experience though is giving me a pause. I would have to transfer my funds since they are all over the place in different 401ks and I was not sure about Apex. But Rob seems to think Apex is fine? I would love to hear more about Apex
@aroran412 Now I'm really against Facet. I signed up and after a few months canceled my subscription, but they want to charge me for the entire year. Not happy at all. There funds are essentially basic ETF like those for equities and bonds. Not worth it.
I wonder if a few only CFP might be the better route. You’d be able to direct the questions, define your needs and then give them the statements/data for the analysis.
This was super helpful - we’re working hard to enable super efficient, lower fee, higher value planning at scale. I appreciate you exploring all of these solutions Rob!
It seems to me a giant hole that the advisor will not handle tax issues. My number one expense in retirement is taxes. It is a huge component of my financial well-being. This omission makes them a hard no for my needs
Well Said. Typically the 2 biggest expenses for a retiree are taxes and healthcare. By not providing solid tax planning, they are missing a big component of many retirees' financial situations. The issue with tax planning IMO, is it requires a lot of education on the planner's part and frankly, a lot of planners don't want to put in the work or are just too inexperienced. HOWEVER, there are a number of good planning firms that do solid tax planning work. It just takes some legwork on your part to find them. Cheers!
I left my financial advisor when I retired because he would not answer any tax questions. Wouldn't even give me the name of an accountant that could answer questions.
@@seetheforestthroughthetrees Actually, I think the biggest expense for too many people is the ~1% AUM that they're paying to traditional investment managers! It's just that the financial managers are very crafty about just taking that out of your investment returns and not as a bill (or even a line item in your budget) that comes due every month.
They don’t do tax planning? That can be hundreds of thousands of dollars. I’m too paranoid to hook my accounts or transfer my funds to anyone. This firm would not be a good fit for me. Thanks for the content Rob!
Tax planning is a hugely important part of retirement finances. A financial planning company that doesn’t do tax planning as part of it is, frankly, useless.
You are exactly right. In a lot of the tax planning it is hundreds of thousands of dollars over time. But, how would you get that sort of planning if you wouldn't allow access to "see" your financial picture. I understand not allowing management of the investments like Rob. If you hired someone to do tax planning, would you print out statements and mail them to the planner? Or would you just verbally say what they are? Without proof of asset titling, or balances, positions, etc., (only verbal) the planner could unknowingly commit malpractice by giving poor advice. If you chose to hire a planner for that expertise, wouldn't transparency be an important part of the relationship?
@@seetheforestthroughthetrees I’ve had financial planners assess our situation for a one time fee. All three used secure sites to upload financial documents. I don’t have an issue with that, but I don’t allow sites (like Boldin) access to my accounts. Some financial advisors will manage your investments in platforms like Charles Schwab. They are allowed to move funds within the account, but cannot transfer funds out of the account. This would be the only way I would allow access to our accounts. I’m probably overly concerned, but this is our future and I’m not willing to take a chance.
I'm at the same point where you are. Worrying about my wife when I go the big mutual fund in the sky. Please keep this subject on the top of your list.
I was also considering Facet. I am also really not interested in the Investment Management aspects, but really just the development and monitoring against a plan. Also, as you mentioned the tax aspects - like Roth Conversion and Social Security timing...Iss there anyone that just does these things for a reasonable amount of money? It is hard to justify the 1 to 1.5 % of assists under management that most companies want to charge. I really enjoy your content Rob....Thanks.
@@markh4750 If you are working with a planner at Vanguard, or somewhere else, IMO the two initial questions to ask are how much experience do you have with XYZ situation? and how many clients/customers do you work with? If you don't like what you hear right away, head in another direction.
@@markh4750love Vanguard’s funds (VOO and friends) - could build a portfolio in good conscience for anyone on their offerings, and I do for my own. But if I had to pick a brokerage/company, them over Schwab, Fidelity?
Been watching you for a long time Rob , I value your opinion greatly. I am In my 30s and trying to invest at least $55k per year. Your channel has been a big motivation for me
Excellent overview. Based on our dealings with 'financial planners', either the advice is superficial, or they can't wait to get their grubby hands on our investments - either way, an unsatisfying experience and why we self-invest. Rob gives far more nuanced, considered and knowlegeable answers than any 'certified' financial planner I've met.
This is very helpful. Thanks for giving them a test drive. Based on your review, they are not right for me, but I certainly appreciate all of the info you shared.
Tax planning with implementation (would at a minimum include Roth conversions, IRMA, etc., which accounts/sequence to withdraw from, tax loss or gains harvesting) should be a must. Other services such as portfolio management is the easy part. Lack of transparency with returns vs vaguely defined benchmarks is very concerning
S&P 500 and VTI both returned 26% during the same period per Google AI Gemini. Seems like I wouldn't want them managing my assets vs just telling my spouse to VTI and chill.
Was the tax part not covered because they want you to move up to the “Complete” plan for $6000/yr that offers “advanced tax strategy”? That bullet point was only listed under Complete.
Nice review. I have always struggled in deciding between doing Roth conversions or tax gain harvesting on non non retirement stocks/funds where the goal is to pay 0% federal tax on long term capital gains by selling just below the threshold
The hardest part of all of this for me as I approach retirement is 1. Settling on the makeup of a simple portfolio, preferably at one provider and 2. A withdrawal strategy that incorporates Roth rollover optimization. #2 is the most valuable to me at this point. It sounds like that is a drill for our acct.
This seems like a perfectly reasonable solution for unsophisticated investors. Prob not for rob berger DIYers, but most people are not. If you want a full service financial planner, you need to learn to be your own or pony up to pay for one. For 2 or 3k, this is fine for most people.
I Hit 110k today. Thank you for all the knowledge and nuggets you had thrown my way over the last months. Started last month 2024. Financial education is indeed required for more than 70% of the society in the country as very few are literate on the subject. thanks to Brooke Miller for helping me achieve this
She is my family's personal broker and also a personal broker in many families I'm United States, she's a licensed broker and a FINRA AGENT in United states
I just withdrew my profits a week ago, To be honest it was an amazing feeling when the profits hits my wallet I wish I could reinvest but, too much bills
Weird that they consider "tax issues" to not be "retirement issues". These things are very much intertwined. I do like a "flat fee" over a "percentage of assets" though. There's just no way I'm paying near 1%.
I have used Facet for 3 years now. My first advisor left as well, but it was because he died of Covid, not moved on. I will be leaving them as they have overcharged me according to the published fee schedule you showed... I also had the experience of them wanting me to leave funds I already owned (including one I owned for 20 years). Oh...and at one point they tried to get me to go AUM...even though I specifically contracted with them because of the fee based option.
Forgive me Rob, but after listening to all of this, I don't quite understand what it is exactly that they're providing for you for $2k, other than an independent review of what you're already doing. Other than piece of mind for your wife (which could he done port-mortem), what am I missing? (And yes, like you, I've been a do-it-yourselfer.) Thanks.
Yes, agreed. The summary I heard was that for $2k they answered 0/2 questions, underperform the market by a couple of percent, and had "reasonable" allocations but did some strange market timing adjustments. Very generous review, but I think the bottom line is hard pass?
I don’t disagree with that assessment(and it seems underwhelming to me), but I think what Rob is looking for is for someone to monitor/adjust the portfolio if he has passed and his wife doesn’t have desire/capability to manage it. To use an analogy: he wants Someone driving the car, not just let it roll aimlessly. And the yearly virtual meetings ensures that Facet at least provides some feedback/assurances. (Perhaps she has someone trusted on that virtual meeting as well?) The key is it’s only 2k a year, which for large portfolios is much less than 1% AUM. (which Rob points out in his book (free plug!😀) really drains a portfolio over time…) Not sure I’d use them either….
I used Facet a few years ago when I was still learning to be a DIY guy... it was worthless. Same cost - $2k - they changed CFP's on me twice because of them leaving, and it was basically nothing I didn't already know based on what was at the time some limited DIY knowledge from books I had read (include Rob's own "Retire Before Mom and Dad".).
Love your content Rob. I retired in Sept. and have been learning from you for the last 24 months or so - thanks! I like the idea of a fee only advisor for the same reasons you mention or in the event my wife an I are no longer mentally capable. Was wondering if you considered a Fidelity (or another advisor)? I meet with mine in Oct and plan to ask about fee only vs AUM model but currently we manage our own but meet with our CFP quarterly with no charge (perhaps no fee as we are all index or how much we have invested?). Cheers!
Bob, love your videos. I’m with Fidelity and they assigned an advisor to us. We met with him, he a plan for us etc. We chose to remain DIY but all our accounts are there. If I kick, my wife has a contract, 30min drive away.
I've been with Fidelity for decades. My latest advisor (from a few years ago) tried for a little over a year to push me into their actively managed stuff....didn't like the look of those fees and the returns didn't seem any better. They are looking for commission!
How do you have an adivisor at Fidelity if you don't let them manage your money. They won't tell or advise you on anything without handing the reigns over to them at least in my experience.
@@ebowalker571 If you have over a certain amount invested with them you get assigned a Fidelity Private Group Advisor. They are very helpful but they also try to sell products that will make them more money. Understandably.
Wow, how timely!! Just did the same thing (and for the same reasons!). Love their low costs, staff, and lukewarm on their proactive management (A sort of meta Active management), benchmark (should be S&P500) and the backtested portfolio returns of 7% with standard deviation of approx 14%.
There is an implication that you have been running a suboptimal plan, so you have to incur exceptional capital gains expenses to sell out of your plan and go into their plan. Their plan would have to be significantly better to merit the expense. After you have entered their plan, if you decide you want to exit, you incur the same problem. I would prefer to have an independent expert review my plan and suggest better allocations. In my experience, any and all of these groups want you to sell out of your positions and have them buy into the models the group has devised. Also in my experience, these models are not remarkably different from models which can be found in the independent literature.
I thought he didn’t want his wife to have to deal with investments if he was gone. If that’s the case, I don’t see her scouring “the independent literature.”
Great video as always Rob. It' s nice to get a CheckUp on your Plan. But as a DIY'er, I'm just not interested in a service like this. And if I pass before my wife I wouldn't be interested in this service for her either. In that circumstance I would HAVE to get someone she can actually visit and have an in person rapport with, no matter how expensive. Otherwise it just wouldn't work for her. She is learning however! I talk to her all the time (she says I'm obsessed with retirement) and I do know she is listening!
I wonder if they knew you were “the” Rob Berger or just a random person? This experience could have been like a food critic doing a restaurant review where the restaurant knows who you are.
I think I figured out something else about Facet. They assign you an advisor and you get the pressure to move all your assets to them. If you don't move your assets, as both of us did, they move you to another advisor. Most likely they have their high performance sales people at the beginning and then their average or newer employees if you don't move your assets. So glad I didn't go forward with them. I think you are giving them much more consideration than they are worth.
It took a few meetings to find out that many financial planners don't have a clue. I found one that has the answers or has people that will answer the questions. I recommend finding a person to do the management and stop looking for a deal on the internet.
Ok, I get it Rob's planning is more complicated than the average Joe's family like me. All we have is a house, IRAs,pension, and a brokerage account. No donor advisor fund or a business. I think Vanguard is cheaper maybe?
@@suzanneemerson2625 Mark said Roth conversion doesn't make sense for us. We don't have millions to over think and make it complicated. My wife will retire at 62 y/o then we both will claim SS start spending down.
Vanguard + Fidelity advisors charge .30% and .35% of AUM. NOT cheaper in the long run. Rob's single fund example (and variants) from a recent video seem much more cost effective.
@@daveholt0 The point of hiring someone like Vanguard is for advice beyond just basic investments. Tax planning, social security optimizing, all of the other things that come along with retirement. If you're still working and have no need to draw on the investments, then no, there's no point in a financial advisor and a simple index fund strategy will do. If you are actually close to, or in retirement, then you might benefit from an advisor unless you are very knowledgeable around tax planning.
Honestly these firms use software (glorified spreadsheets) that does all the work - they just enter your data/criteria. I’m thinking of getting the software myself and save thousands in fees. At some point I will take my scenerios to a certified financial planner.
Great description of your experience. I think the lack of tax planning is a bit surprising and quite frankly off-putting for me. When working with our CFP, options for optimizing tax burdens within our goals is a major part of why we need their advice. If they cannot advise on something as basic as Roth conversions, I'm not sure what I'd use them for.
Financial assistance, at least for me, ebbs and flows. A year with significant decisions is followed by years of maintenance ( following the plan). Why I dislike the AUM fee structure. One benefit of their fee structure is that one could buy more or less depending on need. I would like to see more fee flexibility in financial services. Such as, a larger fee for new clients (new intake requires a lot of work), but a lower fee for maintaining the established plan. Charging hourly or base plus charge extra for additional hrs.
Rob, Curious how you chose this company, in light of the many many fee only planners that are well within this price range and would provide continuity? Simply put, I don't see the value prop, with so many other options, most of which are more personal.
They must've recently updated their pricing. It used to be a complexity based flat fee with possibility for annual increases via negative consent letter (less transparent than AUM). How do they handle fee increases now?
note, based on their total AUM of about $3.5B and 18,000 clients, that works out to an average client portfolio of about $200,000. Seems like they priced there services to essentially charge the equivalent of 1% AUM since 1% of $200k is $2000, namely their base plan cost, and possibly even 1.5% equivalent AUM if the average client selects the $3000 plan.
If you have $200k now, and are reasonably invested, there's a good chance that it will grow to MUCH more over 30 years and yearly AUM fees will be huge.
My experience has been similar to what Rob says about the inflexibility of the scenarios and it was frustrating to me. I am giving it a try since I also like the concept overall but can I trust that my retirement savings safe with these guys? Seems like the really push for managing the portfolio over helping you with good planning advice on those tax issues and I'm also not getting any answers either. So right now I'm stuck with a 1 year contract for advice but not sure if I want to hand over the reins of the portfolio. Any advice or comments on this would be greatly appreciated.
I like how their portfolio keeps value and growth stocks separated, presumably rebalancing for better performance long term. The lack of gold is unfortunate and misses the clear back testing data on the asset class.
This is investment management Light. The cost is indicative of the services. Seems like a mix of Index Funds (Boglehead style), would suffice. That being said, I think young investors that need some handholding and no tax planning may find some value in Facet.
Did you get a sense of what percentage of Facet's clients are already retired vs in the accumulation stage? If someone is retired, you may need someone that specializes in retirement rather than a CFP that is a generalist trying to do everything. The pricing is quite competitive and could be a good option for someone that does not know much about investing.
It's a little concerning that a Financial Advisor isn't prepared to do Roth conversion analysis, it implies that they're really investment advisors and aren't creating a long term financial road map. With the type of software available to advisors, if they're collecting all the pertinent info it would be a breeze. Same with SS, is it expensive to use Open Social Security to generate a basic plan? Is there a lot of value added beyond the $300 and $30/month you;d pay for a Schwab Intelligent Portfolio Premium?
I think I may not understand something about tax loss harvesting. But if you are only in the allocations that Facet is using, and the market is generally going up, then what tax losses are there to harvest?
I have very similar needs to you Rob. This place sounds like a cookie cutter approach to how they invest for folks. For most people, who need help, looks like a good choice.
This service would be useless to me as I have a MPT/risk parity portfolio with 15 assets. The ongoing maintenance is minimal (just annual rebalancing/review) but I'd want to have somebody familiar with MPT/risk parity portfolio construction techniques and that isn't Facet (who slices-and-dices a 60/40 and calls it a day).
Rob, I’m in my 70’s and want to change some of my Vanguard US stock market fund to a foreign stock fund soon. Would VEMAX or VEUSX be a good choice or would you prefer a different Admiral fund? Robert
- 10:45 “no real plan, no here’s what we recommend.” That would annoy me because that’s exactly what I would be looking for. Is what I’m doing correct and if not what should I change?
I wont' be using them now. As for my wife should I go to that great big mutual fund in the sky, I'm undecided. I'd like to see their financial planning services improve a bit.
Do you think their portfolio is substantially different from a robo advisor like Wealthfront/Betterment at .25%? Still cheaper than Facet until $800k in assets.
Rob, I'm sure your children are just as smart as you. Why can't they help Mom with financial guidance with Mark Zoril? Also, a CPA can help decide which account to draw money from? Why spend $2000 if they don't cover taxes? Mark Zoril talks about Roth's conversion & taxes for only $300
They'll talk about "tax" loss harvesting, but not Roth conversions because it's a "tax" issue? Huh? I've been looking for an adviser when I'm no longer able, but they all are "investment managers" and yet I'm looking for a true financial planner which seem to be rare. I'm always left with "Where's the meat?". There's so much more than just investments. Appreciate your review and thinking process.
Rob, if you signed up for the 6K/per plan "Complete" they indicate it would include "Advanced tax strategy". Do you think that would include Roth Conversions/Social Security/Capital Gains tax, etc.????
My scenario is pretty close to 19:00 Rob’s. Im looking for ways to pay as little tax as possible and the big question being how much to convert to a Roth prior to RMDs. I’m interviewing CPAs which may be the best choice to answer my concerns. Dealing with my wife if I pass she will most likely go with/Fidelity Wealth management. We trust Fidelity. I manage our finances but when I lose interest or start to make poor cognitive decisions I will pay the AUM but for now it seems like a lot of money.
If you can find a CPA firm providing Financial Planning would be most attractive for your audience. Roth conversion, SS solutions are fundamental to any CFP. CFP simply stands for Ching Ching.
If Facet has $3.6 billion AUM and 18k clients with most using them to manage assets, that would means the average client only has $200k with them. The base level $2k fee is about 1% of assets on average.
If that provides you additional confidence you are doing things correctly, or if they were to point out changes or modifications to your planning strategy that could benefit you by more than $2k, I would think it would make sense. But, without that, I would agree, that paying $2k for 3 meaningless meetings is silly.
Facet sounds far too inflexible for a "Close Fit" Scenarios. I have this opinion about New Retirement (NR) software fixed algorithms. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy NR but it still is somewhat rigid in individual life phase needs.
Great video Rob. I am also concerned about my wife if I should pass first or if/when I am no longer mentally able to handle things. How would someone who has a large part of their retirement portfolio in the government retirement TSP use Facet. Would all the TSP funds need to be transferred out of the TSP over to Facet?
I plan to transfer TSP to vanguard for simplicity except for G fund. No substitute for G fund, but considering moving it to VTIP short term inflation protected ETF. TSP annuity option is the most generous if looking into it. Just wanted one statement with trusted company and low fees.
For $6000 a year you can get Roth Conversion strategies done. That is extremely expensive. You mentioned you’re doing this for your wife benefit. How many meetings did she attend? If your wife is not investment savvy like you why would a firm like Facet be a good fit? They have less than 80 CFP servicing 18,000 members. Does that seem like a high level of touches per client?
Please get yourself set up for Super Chats, etc. I love that you don’t spring for the first ad deal. Multiple times a week, I day-drink and throw wads of cash at YT creators like yourself that deserve it!
I’m considering Root Financial, their TH-cam content is a nice complement to yours. BUT, they are an Assets under management… I’d prefer a flat fee advisor
Another great video, however for established investors I don't see the advantage of selling all of their investments, incuring a huge capital gains tax liability in order to invest in what is basically a mix of index funds. For instance if you have a million to invest of which $500,000 in capital gains, you will be paying over $100,000 in taxes, all of this to transfer your invstments to a low cost advisor. I don't see the wisdom of that move.
Facet sounds like what a lot of these services are turning into, which is just someone who pushes a few buttons on a fancy calculator and presents the outputs. The asset management is really "meh" and seems like a lot of make-work that doesn't really do anything. And their sample portfolio is NOT really well-diversified. More funds does not equal more diversification.
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I've decided not to continue using Facet for now. As for my wife should I go to that great big mutual fund in the sky, I'm undecided. I'd like to see their financial planning services improve a bit. That said, I would be comfortable having Facet manage our investments in my absence.
Great video, had me hooked for a while until the piece about the lack of Roth conversion and Social Security planning. If you ever find a competitor that does that, PLEASE make a video! Facet is a swing and miss.
Rob, I believe everyone should have basic knowledge of personal finance and learn to manage his/her own portfolio.
Suze O always said you want to find the best advisor - look at the mirror.
@@gdb5843 You are right and wrong. I am a DIY person. My wife has no interest except loves to see the money tree growing without even adding water. So, I should be thrilled to have this service after my death. Except, I don't know when that is and when to plan
Thanks Rob. I value your opinion. This seems like a viable option in a situation like that.
@@rob_berger I hope that is a long long long long time from now
Love that you’re not a sponsored channel Rob!
This is a huge reason why I enjoy your channel so much. Thanks and keep it up!
Any plans to review Boldin’s CFP services? Thanks
Your experience with Facet is exactly the same as mine (I signed up for Plus). I did the initial consultation was fine. The three scenarios are 'hard coded' such that if you pick one and then decide to evaluate another scenario, you can't. And as you mentioned, you can't tweak your scenario. I told them up front I was sticking with Fidelity and was not going to transfer my accounts to them. I received constant emails/reminders to transfer my accounts. What I wanted from them was advice on possible Roth conversions, the asset mixes I should have both in and outside of my IRA, medicare plan options, and things like that. Things just went quiet on their end and I felt like I had to chase them to get support. I've only been with them 6 months, but I'm questioning the value. Thanks for the video.
I had a very similar situation and experience. While their investment advice was helpful (I needed to diversify a singular stock position but did not intend on having Facet directly manage our accounts), the planning components were weak. During the year I was a member (Complete), I ramped up my own knowledge base and when it came time to renew, I simply could not justify the expense - at any of their levels. I also was not impressed with their software. I'm using Maxifi; Boldin; even a freebie to RightCapital and found that Facet's software simply paled in comparison. So I'm now officially a retirement DIYer -- thanks to all the great resources, like Rob Berger's channel and many others.
Thanks for this response. I have not signed up with them yet but am doing a deep dive on them, so far things look impressive and the first sales call yesterday was good too. Your experience though is giving me a pause. I would have to transfer my funds since they are all over the place in different 401ks and I was not sure about Apex. But Rob seems to think Apex is fine? I would love to hear more about Apex
@aroran412 Now I'm really against Facet. I signed up and after a few months canceled my subscription, but they want to charge me for the entire year. Not happy at all. There funds are essentially basic ETF like those for equities and bonds. Not worth it.
I wonder if a few only CFP might be the better route. You’d be able to direct the questions, define your needs and then give them the statements/data for the analysis.
This was super helpful - we’re working hard to enable super efficient, lower fee, higher value planning at scale. I appreciate you exploring all of these solutions Rob!
It seems to me a giant hole that the advisor will not handle tax issues. My number one expense in retirement is taxes. It is a huge component of my financial well-being.
This omission makes them a hard no for my needs
Agree, but you have to fork out more bucks for what you want. Anyway for 5 times more go with Andy Panco, who appeared last week with Rob.
Many CFP firms are not tax specialists which always surprises me. Tax planning is an essential component to investing, in my opinion.
Well Said. Typically the 2 biggest expenses for a retiree are taxes and healthcare. By not providing solid tax planning, they are missing a big component of many retirees' financial situations. The issue with tax planning IMO, is it requires a lot of education on the planner's part and frankly, a lot of planners don't want to put in the work or are just too inexperienced. HOWEVER, there are a number of good planning firms that do solid tax planning work. It just takes some legwork on your part to find them. Cheers!
I left my financial advisor when I retired because he would not answer any tax questions. Wouldn't even give me the name of an accountant that could answer questions.
@@seetheforestthroughthetrees Actually, I think the biggest expense for too many people is the ~1% AUM that they're paying to traditional investment managers! It's just that the financial managers are very crafty about just taking that out of your investment returns and not as a bill (or even a line item in your budget) that comes due every month.
They don’t do tax planning? That can be hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I’m too paranoid to hook my accounts or transfer my funds to anyone.
This firm would not be a good fit for me.
Thanks for the content Rob!
Tax planning is a hugely important part of retirement finances. A financial planning company that doesn’t do tax planning as part of it is, frankly, useless.
I agree on connecting anyone to my accounts. Anyone with information on doing this, I'd like to hear more.
You are exactly right. In a lot of the tax planning it is hundreds of thousands of dollars over time. But, how would you get that sort of planning if you wouldn't allow access to "see" your financial picture. I understand not allowing management of the investments like Rob. If you hired someone to do tax planning, would you print out statements and mail them to the planner? Or would you just verbally say what they are? Without proof of asset titling, or balances, positions, etc., (only verbal) the planner could unknowingly commit malpractice by giving poor advice. If you chose to hire a planner for that expertise, wouldn't transparency be an important part of the relationship?
@@seetheforestthroughthetrees I’ve had financial planners assess our situation for a one time fee. All three used secure sites to upload financial documents. I don’t have an issue with that, but I don’t allow sites (like Boldin) access to my accounts.
Some financial advisors will manage your investments in platforms like Charles Schwab. They are allowed to move funds within the account, but cannot transfer funds out of the account. This would be the only way I would allow access to our accounts.
I’m probably overly concerned, but this is our future and I’m not willing to take a chance.
I'm at the same point where you are. Worrying about my wife when I go the big mutual fund in the sky. Please keep this subject on the top of your list.
Your story underlines the importance of knowing what you want your financial planner to do before hiring him/her.
I was also considering Facet. I am also really not interested in the Investment Management aspects, but really just the development and monitoring against a plan. Also, as you mentioned the tax aspects - like Roth Conversion and Social Security timing...Iss there anyone that just does these things for a reasonable amount of money? It is hard to justify the 1 to 1.5 % of assists under management that most companies want to charge. I really enjoy your content Rob....Thanks.
Vanguard is the top dog for a reason. 0.35-0.4% fee and you get access to all of the advice, including tax and SS optimization.
@@markh4750 Exactly, I'm using Vanguard for these reasons also.
@@markh4750 If you are working with a planner at Vanguard, or somewhere else, IMO the two initial questions to ask are how much experience do you have with XYZ situation? and how many clients/customers do you work with? If you don't like what you hear right away, head in another direction.
@@markh4750love Vanguard’s funds (VOO and friends) - could build a portfolio in good conscience for anyone on their offerings, and I do for my own. But if I had to pick a brokerage/company, them over Schwab, Fidelity?
Been watching you for a long time Rob , I value your opinion greatly. I am In my 30s and trying to invest at least $55k per year. Your channel has been a big motivation for me
Amazing keep it up.
Thank you
You are welcome
congratulations, and keep it up.
Excellent overview. Based on our dealings with 'financial planners', either the advice is superficial, or they can't wait to get their grubby hands on our investments - either way, an unsatisfying experience and why we self-invest. Rob gives far more nuanced, considered and knowlegeable answers than any 'certified' financial planner I've met.
This is very helpful. Thanks for giving them a test drive. Based on your review, they are not right for me, but I certainly appreciate all of the info you shared.
Tax planning with implementation (would at a minimum include Roth conversions, IRMA, etc., which accounts/sequence to withdraw from, tax loss or gains harvesting) should be a must. Other services such as portfolio management is the easy part. Lack of transparency with returns vs vaguely defined benchmarks is very concerning
S&P 500 and VTI both returned 26% during the same period per Google AI Gemini. Seems like I wouldn't want them managing my assets vs just telling my spouse to VTI and chill.
@@BradBierman VTI or VT and bonds in treasuries should do it. Hard part is optimizing tax management
Was the tax part not covered because they want you to move up to the “Complete” plan for $6000/yr that offers “advanced tax strategy”? That bullet point was only listed under Complete.
True DAT.
Nice review. I have always struggled in deciding between doing Roth conversions or tax gain harvesting on non non retirement stocks/funds where the goal is to pay 0% federal tax on long term capital gains by selling just below the threshold
Super helpful , more reviews like this please !!
The hardest part of all of this for me as I approach retirement is 1. Settling on the makeup of a simple portfolio, preferably at one provider and 2. A withdrawal strategy that incorporates Roth rollover optimization. #2 is the most valuable to me at this point. It sounds like that is a drill for our acct.
This seems like a perfectly reasonable solution for unsophisticated investors. Prob not for rob berger DIYers, but most people are not. If you want a full service financial planner, you need to learn to be your own or pony up to pay for one. For 2 or 3k, this is fine for most people.
I Hit 110k today. Thank you for all the knowledge and nuggets you had thrown my way over the last months. Started last month 2024. Financial education is indeed required for more than 70% of the society in the country as very few are literate on the subject. thanks to Brooke Miller for helping me achieve this
She is my family's personal broker and also a personal broker in many families I'm United States, she's a licensed broker and a FINRA AGENT in United states
The very first time we tried, we invested $1000 and after a week, we received $5500. That really helped us a lot to pay up our bills.
I'm surprised that you just mentioned and recommended Brooke Miller, I met her at a conference in 2018 and we have been working together ever since.
I'm new at this, please how can I reach her?
I just withdrew my profits a week ago, To be honest it was an amazing feeling when the profits hits my wallet I wish I could reinvest but, too much bills
Thank you. I found value in this presentation.
Thanks for checking them out and for sharing your experience.
Weird that they consider "tax issues" to not be "retirement issues". These things are very much intertwined. I do like a "flat fee" over a "percentage of assets" though. There's just no way I'm paying near 1%.
I have used Facet for 3 years now. My first advisor left as well, but it was because he died of Covid, not moved on. I will be leaving them as they have overcharged me according to the published fee schedule you showed... I also had the experience of them wanting me to leave funds I already owned (including one I owned for 20 years). Oh...and at one point they tried to get me to go AUM...even though I specifically contracted with them because of the fee based option.
Forgive me Rob, but after listening to all of this, I don't quite understand what it is exactly that they're providing for you for $2k, other than an independent review of what you're already doing.
Other than piece of mind for your wife (which could he done port-mortem), what am I missing? (And yes, like you, I've been a do-it-yourselfer.) Thanks.
Yes, agreed. The summary I heard was that for $2k they answered 0/2 questions, underperform the market by a couple of percent, and had "reasonable" allocations but did some strange market timing adjustments. Very generous review, but I think the bottom line is hard pass?
I don’t disagree with that assessment(and it seems underwhelming to me), but I think what Rob is looking for is for someone to monitor/adjust the portfolio if he has passed and his wife doesn’t have desire/capability to manage it. To use an analogy: he wants Someone driving the car, not just let it roll aimlessly. And the yearly virtual meetings ensures that Facet at least provides some feedback/assurances. (Perhaps she has someone trusted on that virtual meeting as well?)
The key is it’s only 2k a year, which for large portfolios is much less than 1% AUM. (which Rob points out in his book (free plug!😀) really drains a portfolio over time…)
Not sure I’d use them either….
I used Facet a few years ago when I was still learning to be a DIY guy... it was worthless. Same cost - $2k - they changed CFP's on me twice because of them leaving, and it was basically nothing I didn't already know based on what was at the time some limited DIY knowledge from books I had read (include Rob's own "Retire Before Mom and Dad".).
@@Omar-et7sb I wouldn't want a new financial planner experimenting on my financial situation either.
@Rob Berger. Spot on. And, yes the consumer needs this. Seems relatively reasonable on the expense side.
Love your content Rob. I retired in Sept. and have been learning from you for the last 24 months or so - thanks! I like the idea of a fee only advisor for the same reasons you mention or in the event my wife an I are no longer mentally capable. Was wondering if you considered a Fidelity (or another advisor)? I meet with mine in Oct and plan to ask about fee only vs AUM model but currently we manage our own but meet with our CFP quarterly with no charge (perhaps no fee as we are all index or how much we have invested?). Cheers!
Bob, love your videos. I’m with Fidelity and they assigned an advisor to us. We met with him, he a plan for us etc. We chose to remain DIY but all our accounts are there. If I kick, my wife has a contract, 30min drive away.
I've been with Fidelity for decades. My latest advisor (from a few years ago) tried for a little over a year to push me into their actively managed stuff....didn't like the look of those fees and the returns didn't seem any better. They are looking for commission!
My Fidelity advisor always finds a way to bring up annuities even though they don’t fit my portfolio goals. Seem sketchy.
How do you have an adivisor at Fidelity if you don't let them manage your money. They won't tell or advise you on anything without handing the reigns over to them at least in my experience.
@@ebowalker571 If you have over a certain amount invested with them you get assigned a Fidelity Private Group Advisor. They are very helpful but they also try to sell products that will make them more money. Understandably.
Fidelity reached out to me. I had 2 or 3 calls with advisor and chose not to proceed.
Wow, how timely!! Just did the same thing (and for the same reasons!). Love their low costs, staff, and lukewarm on their proactive management (A sort of meta Active management), benchmark (should be S&P500) and the backtested portfolio returns of 7% with standard deviation of approx 14%.
There is an implication that you have been running a suboptimal plan, so you have to incur exceptional capital gains expenses to sell out of your plan and go into their plan.
Their plan would have to be significantly better to merit the expense.
After you have entered their plan, if you decide you want to exit, you incur the same problem.
I would prefer to have an independent expert review my plan and suggest better allocations.
In my experience, any and all of these groups want you to sell out of your positions and have them buy into the models the group has devised.
Also in my experience, these models are not remarkably different from models which can be found in the independent literature.
I thought he didn’t want his wife to have to deal with investments if he was gone.
If that’s the case, I don’t see her scouring “the independent literature.”
@@suzanneemerson2625 true, and that is a realistic situation.
Rob, why wouldn't you just have your wife go with a Vanguard ETF mix and stick with it?
Specifically Rob's 2024-aug-06 video "how to invest for a lifetime". Which is another great vid!
So helpful - thank you! We had them on our list to explore. I don't think it's the right fit right now, but could be down the road.
Great video as always Rob. It' s nice to get a CheckUp on your Plan. But as a DIY'er, I'm just not interested in a service like this. And if I pass before my wife I wouldn't be interested in this service for her either. In that circumstance I would HAVE to get someone she can actually visit and have an in person rapport with, no matter how expensive. Otherwise it just wouldn't work for her. She is learning however! I talk to her all the time (she says I'm obsessed with retirement) and I do know she is listening!
Thanks for the work you put into this. Much appreciated.
Rob - Great discussion points; logical, practical, simple.
Excellent information as always! Thank you!
I wonder if they knew you were “the” Rob Berger or just a random person? This experience could have been like a food critic doing a restaurant review where the restaurant knows who you are.
Good point 🤣Rob is now a celebrity😁
Yes, was wondering the same!😀
He said he talked with them about possibly sponsoring his channel, so they must know who he is.
I think I figured out something else about Facet. They assign you an advisor and you get the pressure to move all your assets to them. If you don't move your assets, as both of us did, they move you to another advisor. Most likely they have their high performance sales people at the beginning and then their average or newer employees if you don't move your assets. So glad I didn't go forward with them. I think you are giving them much more consideration than they are worth.
Happy Friday, Rob and everyone!
Of course they use lots of funds !! They need to make it look complex to justify fees.
Thanks for the deep dive on this, Rob.
It took a few meetings to find out that many financial planners don't have a clue. I found one that has the answers or has people that will answer the questions. I recommend finding a person to do the management and stop looking for a deal on the internet.
Hi Rob once again another great video. Any plan to review Boldins CFP services. I am a boldin user. Thanks kevin
Ok, I get it Rob's planning is more complicated than the average Joe's family like me. All we have is a house, IRAs,pension, and a brokerage account. No donor advisor fund or a business. I think Vanguard is cheaper maybe?
Wait until you get to RMD land. Then everything gets crazy complicated. Not even considering Roth Conversion strategies.
@@suzanneemerson2625 Mark said Roth conversion doesn't make sense for us. We don't have millions to over think and make it complicated. My wife will retire at 62 y/o then we both will claim SS start spending down.
Vanguard + Fidelity advisors charge .30% and .35% of AUM. NOT cheaper in the long run. Rob's single fund example (and variants) from a recent video seem much more cost effective.
@@daveholt0 The point of hiring someone like Vanguard is for advice beyond just basic investments. Tax planning, social security optimizing, all of the other things that come along with retirement. If you're still working and have no need to draw on the investments, then no, there's no point in a financial advisor and a simple index fund strategy will do. If you are actually close to, or in retirement, then you might benefit from an advisor unless you are very knowledgeable around tax planning.
Honestly these firms use software (glorified spreadsheets) that does all the work - they just enter your data/criteria. I’m thinking of getting the software myself and save thousands in fees. At some point I will take my scenerios to a certified financial planner.
Great description of your experience. I think the lack of tax planning is a bit surprising and quite frankly off-putting for me. When working with our CFP, options for optimizing tax burdens within our goals is a major part of why we need their advice. If they cannot advise on something as basic as Roth conversions, I'm not sure what I'd use them for.
Another good video-thanks! What full service financial planners do you recommend?
Financial assistance, at least for me, ebbs and flows. A year with significant decisions is followed by years of maintenance ( following the plan). Why I dislike the AUM fee structure. One benefit of their fee structure is that one could buy more or less depending on need. I would like to see more fee flexibility in financial services. Such as, a larger fee for new clients (new intake requires a lot of work), but a lower fee for maintaining the established plan. Charging hourly or base plus charge extra for additional hrs.
Rob, Curious how you chose this company, in light of the many many fee only planners that are well within this price range and would provide continuity? Simply put, I don't see the value prop, with so many other options, most of which are more personal.
I have had them since 2021, they’re okay. I only use them as second set of eyes. I don’t let them invest.
Same here, every year I always ask myself 'what am I paying them for' and every year it seems they take away services.
They must've recently updated their pricing. It used to be a complexity based flat fee with possibility for annual increases via negative consent letter (less transparent than AUM). How do they handle fee increases now?
"Transfer your assets over to Facet".... that just does not sound very comforting. And probably a pain in the booty to reverse that whole situation.
note, based on their total AUM of about $3.5B and 18,000 clients, that works out to an average client portfolio of about $200,000. Seems like they priced there services to essentially charge the equivalent of 1% AUM since 1% of $200k is $2000, namely their base plan cost, and possibly even 1.5% equivalent AUM if the average client selects the $3000 plan.
If you have $200k now, and are reasonably invested, there's a good chance that it will grow to MUCH more over 30 years and yearly AUM fees will be huge.
My experience has been similar to what Rob says about the inflexibility of the scenarios and it was frustrating to me. I am giving it a try since I also like the concept overall but can I trust that my retirement savings safe with these guys? Seems like the really push for managing the portfolio over helping you with good planning advice on those tax issues and I'm also not getting any answers either. So right now I'm stuck with a 1 year contract for advice but not sure if I want to hand over the reins of the portfolio. Any advice or comments on this would be greatly appreciated.
I like how their portfolio keeps value and growth stocks separated, presumably rebalancing for better performance long term. The lack of gold is unfortunate and misses the clear back testing data on the asset class.
Great review. Great cost. If you don't want to do the work, I would consider this option.
This is investment management Light. The cost is indicative of the services. Seems like a mix of Index Funds (Boglehead style), would suffice. That being said, I think young investors that need some handholding and no tax planning may find some value in Facet.
Did you get a sense of what percentage of Facet's clients are already retired vs in the accumulation stage? If someone is retired, you may need someone that specializes in retirement rather than a CFP that is a generalist trying to do everything. The pricing is quite competitive and could be a good option for someone that does not know much about investing.
Outstanding, thank you
It's a little concerning that a Financial Advisor isn't prepared to do Roth conversion analysis, it implies that they're really investment advisors and aren't creating a long term financial road map. With the type of software available to advisors, if they're collecting all the pertinent info it would be a breeze.
Same with SS, is it expensive to use Open Social Security to generate a basic plan?
Is there a lot of value added beyond the $300 and $30/month you;d pay for a Schwab Intelligent Portfolio Premium?
I think I may not understand something about tax loss harvesting. But if you are only in the allocations that Facet is using, and the market is generally going up, then what tax losses are there to harvest?
I have very similar needs to you Rob. This place sounds like a cookie cutter approach to how they invest for folks. For most people, who need help, looks like a good choice.
This service would be useless to me as I have a MPT/risk parity portfolio with 15 assets. The ongoing maintenance is minimal (just annual rebalancing/review) but I'd want to have somebody familiar with MPT/risk parity portfolio construction techniques and that isn't Facet (who slices-and-dices a 60/40 and calls it a day).
Thanks for the video!
Rob, I’m in my 70’s and want to change some of my Vanguard US stock market fund to a foreign stock fund soon. Would VEMAX or VEUSX be a good choice or would you prefer a different Admiral fund? Robert
- 10:45 “no real plan, no here’s what we recommend.” That would annoy me because that’s exactly what I would be looking for. Is what I’m doing correct and if not what should I change?
No elaboration about how you decided to use Facet Wealth! Those selection criteria seem important to your viewers.
I wont' be using them now. As for my wife should I go to that great big mutual fund in the sky, I'm undecided. I'd like to see their financial planning services improve a bit.
Have you looked at Range which seems to do something similar?
Do you think their portfolio is substantially different from a robo advisor like Wealthfront/Betterment at .25%? Still cheaper than Facet until $800k in assets.
I like that they don’t charge by AUM. But it’s much less valuable without tax advice because the two go hand and hand.
You asking for financial advice is like a surgeon asking a CNA for medical pointers!!! Did you do this just to toy with the mouse? LOL>
Rob, I'm sure your children are just as smart as you. Why can't they help Mom with financial guidance with Mark Zoril? Also, a CPA can help decide which account to draw money from?
Why spend $2000 if they don't cover taxes? Mark Zoril talks about Roth's conversion & taxes for only $300
Smart isn't the same as being an expert in finances. I know a lot more now about investing than I did when I was my children's age.
@@daveholt0 Yes me too. Why keep fighting where you won a low-cost strategy that works?
Thank you! A basic question. If you use this firm and transfer fund to the firm, is there risk for potential loss if the firm goes under ?
They'll talk about "tax" loss harvesting, but not Roth conversions because it's a "tax" issue? Huh? I've been looking for an adviser when I'm no longer able, but they all are "investment managers" and yet I'm looking for a true financial planner which seem to be rare. I'm always left with "Where's the meat?". There's so much more than just investments. Appreciate your review and thinking process.
Rob, if you signed up for the 6K/per plan "Complete" they indicate it would include "Advanced tax strategy". Do you think that would include Roth Conversions/Social Security/Capital Gains tax, etc.????
My scenario is pretty close to 19:00 Rob’s. Im looking for ways to pay as little tax as possible and the big question being how much to convert to a Roth prior to RMDs. I’m interviewing CPAs which may be the best choice to answer my concerns. Dealing with my wife if I pass she will most likely go with/Fidelity Wealth management. We trust Fidelity. I manage our finances but when I lose interest or start to make poor cognitive decisions I will pay the AUM but for now it seems like a lot of money.
Apologize if I missed this in your video… Why did you not go with a fiduciary as opposed to just a “tax advisor”?
Would like you to do a review of Retireable. Closest look a like to Facet from a low fee vantage point but completely focused on Retirement phase.
If you can find a CPA firm providing Financial Planning would be most attractive for your audience. Roth conversion, SS solutions are fundamental to any CFP. CFP simply stands for Ching Ching.
Question.....do you have any videos on long term care Insurance? thank you for this video?
If Facet has $3.6 billion AUM and 18k clients with most using them to manage assets, that would means the average client only has $200k with them. The base level $2k fee is about 1% of assets on average.
Yes, but importantly as those clients’ portfolios grow, the amount paid to Facet will not
How does it compare to Empower?
$2000/ year seems like a lot for 3 online meetings. But that's just me.
For a standard 1Percent AUM on a million dollar portfolio, 2k is still 8k cheaper
@@ebowalker571 True, but that doesn't change the fact the 2k for three meetings of an hour each is still way too expensive.
If that provides you additional confidence you are doing things correctly, or if they were to point out changes or modifications to your planning strategy that could benefit you by more than $2k, I would think it would make sense. But, without that, I would agree, that paying $2k for 3 meaningless meetings is silly.
Facet sounds far too inflexible for a "Close Fit" Scenarios. I have this opinion about New Retirement (NR) software fixed algorithms. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy NR but it still is somewhat rigid in individual life phase needs.
Great video Rob. I am also concerned about my wife if I should pass first or if/when I am no longer mentally able to handle things. How would someone who has a large part of their retirement portfolio in the government retirement TSP use Facet. Would all the TSP funds need to be transferred out of the TSP over to Facet?
I plan to transfer TSP to vanguard for simplicity except for G fund. No substitute for G fund, but considering moving it to VTIP short term inflation protected ETF. TSP annuity option is the most generous if looking into it. Just wanted one statement with trusted company and low fees.
@@BB-cs3kk Makes sense to try to make it as simple as possible for those left behind. I agree there is no substitute for the G fund.
I would review Vanguard's personal advisor select service. Inexpensive, dedicated CFP, and definitely covers the Roth and SS claiming issues.
Only issue, they push their 4 broad indexes which match a target date fund but at a higher cost.
The key question is why did you have them review out of the many thousands out there..... Why did they stand out.....
I am guessing that they offered their service (FOC) to Rob for promotional consideration. Otherwise I agree, why?
I doubt there are "thousands" of non-AUM advisors that have >$1 billion under management.
For $6000 a year you can get Roth Conversion strategies done. That is extremely expensive.
You mentioned you’re doing this for your wife benefit. How many meetings did she attend? If your wife is not investment savvy like you why would a firm like Facet be a good fit? They have less than 80 CFP servicing 18,000 members. Does that seem like a high level of touches per client?
Please get yourself set up for Super Chats, etc. I love that you don’t spring for the first ad deal. Multiple times a week, I day-drink and throw wads of cash at YT creators like yourself that deserve it!
I’m considering Root Financial, their TH-cam content is a nice complement to yours.
BUT, they are an Assets under management… I’d prefer a flat fee advisor
And, Root doesn’t like to work with DIYers. They just want you to transfer it all to them and trust them. Along with big AUM fee
Those guys talk way too much, way too fast. Finally unsubscribed.
I was too poor for Root financial, they need $2m assets to manage I think.
Another great video, however for established investors I don't see the advantage of selling all of their investments, incuring a huge capital gains tax liability in order to invest in what is basically a mix of index funds. For instance if you have a million to invest of which $500,000 in capital gains, you will be paying over $100,000 in taxes, all of this to transfer your invstments to a low cost advisor. I don't see the wisdom of that move.
Capital gains don't apply if you've been accumulating in 401k, IRA, etc.
Their proprietary platform is similar to but inferior to Empower.
Thanks for the great content, Rob Berger; your analysis is always spot-on.
Vanguard will be around in 30 years. A lot of these independents not so much
What happens when their systems are hacked, mostly if they manage your money
My kid just started college, am i too late to invest on that account for higher education?
Check out 529 plans in your state. There are also tax credits for tuition payments you make.
@@hm51008 thank you!
It never occurred to me that if I am able to watch over my wife in the afterlife that I would need to see her investment allocations! 😅
Thanks for confirmation they aren’t worth their fees. lol 😂
I'd be super concerned about cyber security with any service like this.
Facet sounds like what a lot of these services are turning into, which is just someone who pushes a few buttons on a fancy calculator and presents the outputs. The asset management is really "meh" and seems like a lot of make-work that doesn't really do anything.
And their sample portfolio is NOT really well-diversified. More funds does not equal more diversification.
Re: my wife - if I should die.
Everything gets turned into Cash. Something she understands, and there’s enough for her to live comfortably.
KISS.
Let's say I need $1000 per month, do they send it to you? Do they automatically send me my RMDs? Thanks
That's a great question. How does that work. Do they initiate the withdrawl but it comes to you....direct to checking account?