You can't easily aim it, the grip angle is unnatural for instinctive shooting, the short barrel limits the velocity/range to engage drones at; the only advantage I can think of is that it's short so the pattern will open up immediately but if you're using it at that range maybe you're already in the drone blast zone. Even then they could just cut down any barrel if they felt that would help them. Despite what the designer says this can only be some kind of marketing gimmick for their signaling device. I highly doubt Eastern Europe, let alone the rest of the world, has run out of shotguns to send to Ukraine. All those auto shotguns could be put to good use quickly out there. Otherwise some kind of shotgun CWIZ for infantry could be worth some RnD$$$ or an anti-drone drone that acts like a hawk and just automatically tracks flying drones and crashes itself into them, something cheaper than a missile.
It is just a gimmicky piece of crap. Both Russians and Ukrainians use actual, functional EW units to combat the drones. This is just a plastic trash to sell off to unsuspecting buyers.
The one benefit I could see to this is that it looks cheap and light so many people could be equipped with them relatively quickly. Shotguns have gotten a lot cheaper but they're still long and relatively heavy. It's not feasible to give every person one especially front line soldiers who already carry a shit ton. It's like a handgun but for drones I guess. Not a primary weapon, but something to arm a shit ton of people with so they have at least some level of defensive ability.
The FPV drones fly at up to 150 km/h, which makes them extremely hard to intercept with another drone. The device shown might make sense when you have 7 seconds before you hear the drone, and it hits you. If it is able to put a cloud of shrapnel between you and the drone, than OK. I agree it has to be tested yet with dozens of drones sacrificed.
I think this is more for the everyday soldier who already has a rifle/sidearm/etc and wants some kind of last line of defense from drones that's easy to carry. I think it'd be better if it could be mounted to a rifle though.
Yeah its cheeper but it heavier. If every unit had someone carrying a shotgun they would either have to have two heavy long gun type weapons with 2 sets of ammo they have to worry about, or they would have to be less effective as a soldier because they only have the shotgun to hunt drones, plus if a drone is in shotgun range its usually too late to react quick enough
@@Rashed1255 I mean its better to carry around than a Mossberg 500 lol. But still carrying around 3 guns would be insane for an infantry man. They got their AK, their side arm pistol, and then on top of that the shotgun plus all the ammo for all 3 lf the guns. Even if they didn't bring a pistol i feel like that infantry man could be lugging around better things like more bandages or grenades
@@muggy87sidearm pistols are not generally carried by regular line infantry though. That's a myth perpetuated by gamers and blissfully enjoyed by handgun manufacturers. Even those of us who are (no, I'm not in Ukraine) t/o'd sidearms often leave them in the armory and carry a carbine instead. Nothing says "important" to a marksman than running around a fight without a long gun; and the ordinary grunt can't make hits with a sidearm outside twelve meters...it's just not part of the training regimen and skillset. Yeah, I'd prefer a couple more grenades than a pistol. Yeah, better to have someone at team level around with a tactical Benelli and some 3 1/2" geese loads for fpv. Plus, with some buckshot he can still contribute for the ordinary
Twice the cost of a entry-level 12ga shotgun for something that's mostly plastic with terrible ergonomics. The only conceivable benefit is the compact size, but for the price you could get a pair of real shotguns and have more than enough money left over for a saw. It's also pretty questionable how effective such a short barrel would be. You might have a lot of trouble shooting down a drone before you're inside its blast radius.
A double barrel would be adequate. I'm not sure how many rounds he expects to get off at a rapidly approaching drone within the engagement range given the low power and gaps in the shot pattern that come with wide spread. I'd guess one...
Its ergonomics are fine for flare, etc. launcher. The design is no doubt a conscious one to make it NOT look or feel like a gun so that they don't run afoul of the sundry firearms laws and outright bans in many places. Yes, this isn't a good solution to FPV drones. Its effective range is probably less than the grenade that gets knocked out of the drone that was attacking you...
@@obsidianjane4413 Agreed. For what it is designed for, it is more than likely perfectly acceptable. Just not this. Perhaps if it is used as a testbed for something more suitable?
I’m surprised both sides don’t just have a “designated drone shooter” in a squad armed with a magazine fed Saiga-style semi-auto shotgun. They’ll have natural familiarity with the ergonomics of the AK-pattern shotgun, and the logistics won’t be as badly strained by a bunch of whatever very specific ammunition this thing needs vs. regular 12 gauge. Plus, what have the Ukrainians been doing with those Mossbergs we sent them way back before the beginning of the war? I know those seemed almost as bad an insult as the German helmets back then, but I would sure like a trench gun in that environment. You could also do a little of interesting things with choke tubes and whatnot to maximize shot spreads. I just think this thing is almost just reinventing the wheel.
They're probably in the hands of prison guards, police and personal security. Just like the Kel Tec carbines that were sent. Keeping those in the rear frees up AKs for the front.
the millitairy is way slower then we think in how they adapt to things but the soldiers on the ground do adapt and maybe some groups already have that in place, I know a ytber who fundraise for thermals which he says they also use to shoot down drones in the night
The Turkish make a 12-gauge 3½-inch turkey shotgun, 24-inch with interchangeable chokes but it comes with an extra-full choke tube and a red-dot sight, those are extremely popular. Switch the extra-full for a rifled choke tube and load .50/12.7mm armor-piercing sabot slugs if drones aren't the immediate problem. Made for the U.S. export market (the only place in the world with wild turkeys), these have become extremely popular with both sides over there. The Soviets built a licensed version of the Remington 870, scaled up to 23mm (something like 8-gauge, 12-gauge is 18mm) and barrelled from cut-down sections from worn-out anti-aircraft guns. These were used exclusively by prison guards in the old days, but have proven extremely effective against FPV drones in Ukraine.
The best I can think of is if you have a plant in a hard to get to place, where you can't put a ladder. Otherwise you'd just get a ladder and a regular plant pray gun.
In order to get any range out of that thing you'll need a fast-burning powder and plenty of it. I'm not convinced the barrel could hold it. There is significant smoke in the demo, most likely from a low pressure black powder charge which obscures visibility and lacks range. As a shotgun shooter I have to point out an issue with wide shot dispersion from short barrels: there are huge gaps between the pellets. Impossible to aim, unnatural grip angle, low rate of fire. You'd be better off mag dumping at the drone.
It's a piece of crap and shows how unprepared the soldiers are. I would carry my Benelli M4, just because, but I had a drone buzz my home and couldn't even see it. When I did spot it, the fucker was long gone and out of range.
A comment reply I read suggested the 'extra' in the video from the indoor range could be chaff and flare elements added to jam or blind the drone in the last moments before it hits. Just another person's thoughts, but I thought they could be good ones.
While the tubes can be upgraded with steel, the backing plate looks to still be plastic, and I'm wondering about the locking method. Drones aren't especially tough but I'm not sure using a reduced charge is going to be helpful in taking them down. One idea jumping up and down in my head is making 40mm grenades with proxy fuses; suddenly a common rifle grenade launcher can be very effective in swatting drones.
@@donwyoming1936 Buckshot will leave too big gaps for any reasonable distance where you can actually see those small drones. Had to be relatively small birdshot to actually hit. Drones are overally constructed very lighty for sake of range and mobility. It is not about will potential hit penetrate and do damage. It is all about actully spotting it before it is too late anyway. Overally taking those small bomb drones down with firearms is next to impossible. Electronical devices are far better for that job.
@@donwyoming1936How many rounds do you think you'd get off within range when the drone is coming at you at 60km/hr? A single barrel would probably be all, and they already have those.
looks like crap ergonomics and I doubt the range is great for such short barrel. And 400 EUROS?! Might as well use the money to buy a semi-auto shotgun in 12GA rather than the 410 shells that I assume are being used.
When you look at most vids of FPV drones/drone dropped grenades, the person, if they even see the drone coming, often only has 3-10 seconds to respond. It also happens at times when people don't expect it (behind their own lines, random drones flying over the trenches, etc, not necessarily in the middle of battle) so I think there's an advantage in having a small gun which is very simple that you can just point in the general direction and fire very quickly. If you're a regular infantryman you might not wanna carry around a larger shotgun and a dedicated guy would be useful but 5 second wouldn't be a long time if you have to get the attention of your buddy and they have to successfully shoot it down while in combat. Although the price is outrageous, I feel like the point of this should be that it's super cheap and easy to arm every soldier as a last line of defense against drones.
Judging by what was said in video, this thing fires extended .410 shells, they are extra long (88 mm). Maybe it would still fit conventional .410 shells too.
@@monkemode8128"see" you use your ears. You hear drones before you see them. You want the tool that works, not justifying a bad idea because you've never shot skeet once and immediately understood how useless this thing would be.
I am at a distinct lack of time at the moment, but I want to see people actually put drones downrange and try it on them. The closeness and speed of the FPVs make them a very hard targets for handheld firearms in general. If you don't believe me, go watch people at a skeet range.
I shoot trap, I would have to switch guns, or use the shotgun as a primary weapon/ They are very hard to spot, unlike clays being fired from known positions. I could fill the sky with 7.5 shot and still miss it, even with a 7 shot semi-auto. They are very hard to locate that fucking noise.
im sitting here looking at the 3.5" #4 buck sitting on my desk just laughing at the possibilities. no sane manageable load out of this thing would take down so much as a kite tho.
@@johjoh978 but hey mount a scope on it put 3" mags in it. And let people try. It would be highly amusing to say the least. The local ER would make bank........
It would also frag you as it blew apart. I know a guy who shotguns one-handed - that's all he's got - but his gun weighs more and is a tad more ergonomic.
@@The_sinner_Jim_WhitneyOh, I dunno. Overenthusiastic shot load, nice fast powder like ASP300 in that long case of theirs and I'm pretty sure I could accept that challenge :)
But then, if underbarreled, the moment you aim this thing you already have a weapon with longer range and higher rate of fire trained onto the target...?
not really, m203 gl is hated and everyone says is usless crap on your weapon, but everyone loves the m320 wich you can fire from the shoulder no need to mount on the weapon
@@talscorner3696 Because the shotgun shell has pellet like things inside it which spread out after firing. If a soldier was REALLY good and could just hit the drone it wouldn't matter but if they're not so skilled, stressed out in combat, etc then they can use a shotgun and as long as the gun is pointing in the general direction it will hit.
@ode8128 Pellets don't go as far as solid ball. And, when they do go as far as, say, 50 meters (which is still danger close for a drone, as far as I can tell), they do not remain close enough to each other to *ensure* that when you go click with a shotgun, the drone goes splat. But if you can shoot the shotgun beneath the barrel of your rifle... you can shoot the rifle, too, at a range much greater than the 50 meters at which *maybe* a shotgun can get some result. And the rifle has automatic fire. And there's at the very least 5 or 6 more in the unit. Plus, somebody has to find the shotguns, feed the shotguns, find the spares for the shotguns, carry the shotguns on top of every other piece of kit for the unit and so on and so forth.
@rner3696 Yeah but it's difficult to shoot them you can get an idea from /r/CombatFootage, Telegram, and X. You can see people firing at recon drones (which are a lot slower) and 1 or 2 guys will unload on it and nothing happens. Although I doubt either side is posting videos of their own drones getting shot down. Recently a vid came out where a guy actually did take down a drone but it was too close and he still blew up so it's a concern. Most of the time you don't see the drone 50m out. Again looking at FPV drone strike vids people only notice 3-5 seconds before they hit. In some vids the drone comes from behind and the person doesn't even flinch. IDK how common this is but in an interview with a Ukranian he said the drones are really hard to hear not only because they're quiet but also because a lot of the weapons used by both sides are VERY loud (like AKs, artillery, grenades, etc) and it makes those duller and quieter sounds a lot harder to hear. They're a small target and the operator can see the enemy, fly behind cover, fly in from the direction of the sun, IDK, whatever you could think of to hide a drone.
I have a few packs of 12ga shotgun shells designed for counter-drone applications. They contain some weights which expand a net, for entangling the props. Claimed maximum effective range is 40 yards but I think that's optimistic. In tests, it's proven very difficult to take down drones with small arms of any kind if they are aimed by a human. Drones move fast and are hard to see.,
I could see this being effective in more of a "pistol" format rather than a stockless shotgun setup. The grip angle makes this harder to aim, and for someone in the field having the device require both batteries and special ammo is not great. A 5 or 6 shot pepperbox style pistol would serve the same function, but be more reliable as regular shotshells are a tried and true thing by now. don't get me wrong, the idea has a lot of merit, a small firearm that can sling shot is going to have a higher chance of hitting a drone than a rifle by virtue of how shotguns work. The issue is that the shells for this use a firing mechanism that requires batteries. There's a reason no military uses electrically fired firearms, too much can go wrong in the field from water to just simple dirt getting in between the contacts.
You aren't wrong about batteries, but the *123 batteries this uses were the motherboard CMOS batteries for all Apple desktop computers from the start. They last five years before they start going bad. But you are wrong about military ammunition, all aircraft cannon have used electrical primers since World War II, so prior to 1940, and do to this day. It's much more reliable than conventional primers, but as you say, it has never been popular on the ground. The presence of clouds tells me that humidity is not the issue. I don't know if it is truly a problem or not, but I recall some General citing the possibility of static electricity being a potential problem, in opposition to caseless rifle ammunition, in a Congressional hearing in the 1980s. If this is already marketed in the E.U. as a signal gun for rescue, I expect some agency or bureau in Germany has gone full anal testing it.
any shotgun like weapon is a last ditch effort better than nothing when you are being chased around by a drone. But ultimately early detection is the best tool because in reality most troops dont have time to react. The few videos we see of people running around and trying to dodge a drone is rare as often the drones dont miss on the first strike or it isnt in a position to be detected early enough. Though drones can be loud like a whole hive of bees you wont notice the sound when its a few hundred feet in the air, and by the time you hear it, you likely have 3-5 secounds to react and even then these drones are small in comparison to actual aircraft so spotting its position yourself is hard by that time ur likely dead. to defend against a drone you not only need to hear it in time but see it and draw a weapon to engage it 3-5 secs isnt exactly the best time to do all that in
Given the large amount of sparks and still burning gunpowder coming out of the barrel in the video, I'm guessing that because the barrel is so short, there is incomplete combustion, thereby robbing it of much of its energy, which in turn would reduce the recoil.
I believe there is a similar 4 barreled russian pistol with a more traditional grip that is also electrically fired. I believe its meant for less lethal rounds. Its called the OSA or wasp pistol or the PB-4SP.
Yeah the Osa, 18x45mm is basically short round 12ga, and optionally with an aluminum slug (if not rubber bullet). It would be so hard to hit an FPV though even with a grip. I think the main reasoning here is as wide dispersion as possible and a lucky hit at very short range; even 2-3 meters off still gives a chance, as footage shows
Gee it’s taken such a long time to find a sensible countermeasure, the option of different shells could also come with a longer range flak capacity detonation like ww2 flak for some situations where they are expecting incoming drones and working in a team where others are firing the short range shells, to get it earlier.
Naw. Benelli Supernova or Nova. Affordable combat pumps that can also handle 3 1/2" shells. With a #1 or #2 load (geese loads) in a 3 1/2" you can reach out. Besides, #1 birdshot is .17 caliber, it's actually capable enough on a man if you're truly desperate and 3 1/2" provides ALOT of pellets.
@@JD-tn5lzI’m with ya on the nova/super nova but with tungsten shot #5 or #6 would have way more pellets and maintain energy longer than a #1 or #2 steel
The Turkish clone of the Binelli Supernova, indeed with an extra-full choke and waterfowl loads, is what is being used in Ukraine. There's a version that was marketed for hunting wild turkey in the US, that comes with a red-dot sight and everything, that is extremely popular.
I like the Mossberg Shockwave, Remington TAC 14 and the V3 TAC 13 for similar benefits. But this is a nifty little device. Especially the fire fighting capability.
Later into the war in Afghanistan friends of mine who served saw the Taliban starting to use drones for both overmatch and dropping the odd grenade or mortar round. Some of the Australians units (and probably others) started to be issued with Mossberg 500‘s and some extra range time doing skeet shooting, it was apparently very effective. Granted the big jump in drone tech since then, but at least it’s a proof of concept.
Love the comments replying to people saying a regular shotgun would be better like "But soldiers aren't gonna carry a shotgun and a rifle." That is LITERALLY what the Ukranians are doing right now lmao. A Mossberg 500 is not an uncommon sight in Ukraine. It's not uncommon for a good few people in a unit to be carrying RPG's, NLAW's, and Javelins on their back and others get to carry the ammo. The dude who gets to carry a seven pound shotgun is probably one happy guy. Also ask the Marines who were in Fallujah, at the right range, a semi auto shotgun is absolutely a capable weapon system in modern combat.
In WWI shotguns were very useful in trench warfare. A 12 ga Remington 870 with BB shot would probably work well to knock down FPVs. The first line of defense seems to be jamming transmitters that prevent operators from seeing the FPV's camera feeds. They also jam the RC signals, although with spread spectrum radios that's harder to do.
You are so clueless lmfao go sniff your rear end some more. Soldiers have been carrying shotguns as breaching weapons and room clearing weapons as secondary to their rifle FOREVER U R NOT SMART BLUH
@@dannydanny2789 You realize 5.45x39 out of an AK-74 doesn’t penetrate body armor much better than a 12 gauge either right? Still plenty of guys dead from that so…
Maybe hand held is not the best way to employ these but to mount them say a cluster of 4-6 on a trainable stand mounted on a vehicle with proper sites and able to handle the recoil. For example a Stryker has two hatches in the rear where one could mount a cluster for each of the hatches... perhaps.
. . . I like the way you think. I have a friend who enjoys a Chinese-built ducted electric turbofan jet 1/3 scale A-10 Warthog, and have been trying to figure out how to arm it as a defending anti-drone interceptor to protect Lighter-Than-Air communications bouys.
1kg is a reasonable large amount of weight if you want your drone to be nimble and able to intercept another drone. Majorly impacts flight performance and time
This design reminds me of the phaser from star trek TNG. The cast of that show complained all the time about how difficult it was to try and aim those things anywhere remotely near a target.
That thing looks like it would be difficult to hit a drone with. Hard to aim and all. It looks small enough to strap on the side of a pack though, so defiantly easier to carry than a normal shotgun. As for other uses, seems like it is not really something that is needed. A cheap plastic flare gun works just fine, and a fire extinguisher seems more effective. Looks awesome to load and play around with though, ha. Would defiantly have fun shooting flares out of it even if I do not NEED such a capable flare gun.
they're already holding the rifle so they need one of those that attaches similar to a grenade launcher would be faster to employ and longer range, if it was electric primed like the flare gun it should cost about 20 pounds instead of 450 but it's single shot not 5 ....a grenade launcher has a much larger spread so probably still as effective as all five ...(?)
This Derringer-like thing is a pretty interesting concept, but you're asking a lot out of people's aiming ability to use this against FPVs. It's also probably a bit too big for the role, could probably cut out a barrel or two and still be about as effective at it while being slimmer.
With such a short barrel the shot opens up immediately giving it short range. In the video you can see it open up and almost hit the ceiling so it looks like you'll be in range when the drone explodes. You can get a Mossberg for $700 and it'll do the job better.
The way the MSD-5 is held in order to “aim” seems like serious limiting factor in its effectiveness against drones. Conventional shotguns with bead sights obviously would be superior but they’re larger and wouldn’t be available to everyone. I think the solution would be to select a domestically manufactured pump action shotgun and to make a cheap, light, short barreled version of them to mass produce. Enough to keep at least one in a fighting position.
I think an underslung shotgun would be more useful and anything more than 3 shots is pointless as you wouldn't have the time, the closing speed is so fast and also you need to kill the vehicle at a significant distance to prevent the momentum carrying it through to the target. Maybe there's only a chance for one powerful shot like a 40mm buckshot shell. Also, would it be possible to have something like a 40mm grenade that detonated at a set distance? Like as soon as it reached safe arming distance it detonates.
I know the form factor would be smallish.. but I think that we have progressed enough with electronics that one could make 12ga rounds with an old school inspired simple prox fuse designed to disperse small high velocity shrapnel. I.e. a mini version of old school AA artillery. Is the payload underpowered? Yes. Are drones small, fragile, and likely to be critically damaged from them? Also yes. Compromising velocity a little would allow for a decent amount of workable space in a 3 or 3.5" magnum footprint. Would need rifled barrels and some copper driving band on the projectile. That could even increase shrapnel produced if it is a long thin engagement ring centered around the explosive payload.
Redesigned AA-12 would be a better idea I think. 3 1/2 magnum chambering and a 32" goose barrel or make the barrel a two piece design if your worried about transporting.
A Turkish company was marketing a shotgun in the US for hunting wild turkey, about $420 with a red-dot sight, extra-full removable choke tube, 24" barrel, handles 12-gauge 2¾, 3, and 3½. Those have been selling really well to both sides, I see.
The projectile should disperse a wide range and pattern of fine monofilament line to jam up the fpv propellers. Much like the smoke and flare launchers on tanks, a suitcase sized device can be developed for extended portable protection along with hand held devices.
I almost want to just say forget the combat uses of this thing, because until this video I had NEVER even imagined shell loads that have utility like some of these. Puts out fires? Spray pesticides??? That shit is pretty nuts right? Or have I just somehow gone over a decade of weekly shotgun shooting and managed to never hear about these? FWIW I think this thing could actually be a pretty solid anti-fpv tool if it could get some tweaks ergonomically. I think the fact that it’s so tiny will actually make it more effective since it should allow you to “keep up” with fpv level speed/agility while you aim. That being said, it needs some changes to the design for sure. At the moment it looks like you’re shooting a brick. Even if it’s something as small as some molded in finger holds on the “grip”. Ideally for ergonomics you’d want to actually give the grip some level of curve or angle relative to the barrels, BUT I actually think the straight/in-line design here might be helpful with defending against fpv’s in a similar way that having a smaller weapon helps.
You (unlike most, here) have got it in one. I used to fence, so I know very well that this grip-angle is not a problem. The biggest problem I saw was finding a gun-bucket to hold it, but then I thought, "A cargo pocket and creative use of velcro can fix this."
Honestly idk who to send this to but I would suggest tungsten #9 shot for drone defense in a standard shotgun. The tungsten has more weight than lead, doesn't deform like lead and provides more momentum and kinetic energy on target. The tungsten also holds tighter patterns for longer distances compared to lead so would provide increased distance when firing at the drone. The #9 shot has a very long shot string and should be a great option but perhaps some experimenting may be required to verify it is in fact kinetic enough to down the drone.
What would the range be? Their device would be unlikely to hurt a drone at 100 ft which is way below the altitude a small drone can operate at. From videos, the small drones seem to hunt at a 300 ft or more while looking for targets.
@davidater9 yeah the device in the video is an absolute no for me. I was just putting another idea out. I'm referring to using a standard shotgun with a barrel length between 18 and 28 inches however using some of the newer shot shell technologies and techniques with a specific purpose for drone defense.
One of the reasons you will get deeper penetration and effect from the smaller more dense pellets is because of sectional density, more weight condensed into a smaller space puts more pressure into an impact point. Think about crossing over a frozen pond, if you lay out flat your bodyweight is spread over a larger area meaning you won't fall through compared to if you stepped onto the ice and had all of your body weight on one foot you would be more likely to break through.
You do not want to load regular 12g shells in that!! Flares use slower burn propellant and the peak pressures are low enough it can be fired from a plastic barrel. You will turn the barrel in to a pipe bomb if the pressure is too high, this needs a complete redesign if used with regular shot
I'm more interested in the possibility of having the different shells such as the fire extinguishing round or aerial flare or a fire-starting round which would have a short range and burn for several minutes! Of course, they would have to be regular (i.e.primer fired) shells usable in any standard 12 gauge shotgun and not be too costly!
All of the safety regulations are why 12-gauge signal guns fire 14-gauge flares now, star shells are illegal in the United States of America, and that all-plastic single-shot 12-gauge rescue gun costs way over $400 now, and replacement shells are no longer sold separately. So, dream on! When I was a kid, I could walk in to a Dick's Sporting Goods and buy one for a Boy Scouts weekend hike, and it still had a 12-gauge bore (and a warning it would explode if a regular 12-gauge shell was fired in it; since it only cost $28, this was something the Scout Master would demonstrate as a real warning), and since people liked to fire them over the lake, they sold the flares and star shells by the 10-round box!
i can remember the mythbusters episode where it demonstrated the danger of gripping a revolver in the wrong place. how would this plastic thing go after emptying the magazine. i also think a cone shaped guard on the end is necessary to make sure your fingers dont accidentally get in the way of things flying out the barrel while you are trying to control kickback. nice flaregun though.
yeah, a 12-gauge saiga that fits in a school backpack is better. Also, I've heard rumors that it can be converted to fire full auto. Also, if we want compact there's taurus judge, cheaper, better, multifunctional, rifled .410 birdshot can spread just as good.
There is a Revolver model from Taurus called RT-410 "The Judge" that uses 36 Gauge ammunition, basically a reduced version of the 12 Gauge, capable of hunting ammunition as multiple spheres. But, I don't know if this would be efficient at long range, since it's a revolver.
Honestly this seems like a bad solution. If they want a compact reliable one why not a M&P12 or 590 shockwave or something? This thing looks like it will fail when you need it. Also looks next to impossible to aim at something as small as a DJI 30-60 meters above you.
I actually think this is a good design from a prototype perspective. If we Assume the following Its a last ditch/general issue sidearm for drone/secondary uses. The design gives you rapid shot capacity WITHOUT the weight/length of a semi/automatic shotgun, something a pump action cannot provide. I would make the following changes to make a practical variant. up gauge(increase small pellet density and consistency of spread) decrease barrels to 3(reduce weight due to increased gauge/barrel length) use plain steel, not composite(reduce cost) Increase barrel length by 3" (it actually has some punch) pistol grip.(so if using it alone you can actually aim/shoot/handle recoil) attachable to rifles.(does it even need to be said?) In this way it becomes a low cost, relatively light multi shot anti drone sidearm/underslung rifle attachment...
People dismissing the compact and weight as trivial in relation to price for a normal shotty have clearly never been in conflict. Carrying another platform weapon is completely unacceptable weight addition and would require a designated troop to use who will then likely be useless in other contact. Not only that but it would have a high chance of setting the shotty down in the trench etc and not having it on hand when the FPV shows up. This is small enough literally every dude could carry it and have it on a belt or holster, or something. If an FPV shows up then you have possible volley fire and other tactics for use. This is WAY better than a shotty for FPV AA defense.
I always thought something like this, or the American Liberator shotgun might be useful as an anti-drone PDW. Maybe, loose the batteries and go for a mechanical trigger, them pump them out en-mass for everyone. A fine birdshot combined with a basic bead type sight might help. It would certainly give confidence to soldiers in the field.
I have an antique bank gun which is a small punt gun they were designed to shoot down bird flocks. I think something like that would shoot down a drone
A full size shotgun would be much easier to use against drones AND it still works in combat against other people, especially for troops that aren't on the front lines (artillery, trucks, etc). And if people insist assault rifles are necessary instead of making the shotgun very small I'd issue Pistol/Compact ARs and keep the shotgun full size. An AR pistol is probably better in trenches and urban areas anyways.
I'm surprised we haven't seen more 3-gun style semi auto shotguns being used for drone defense. They can hold a lot of rounds, engage targets past 70 metres with the right ammo and chokes, and deliver significant payloads of tungsten pellets, which would be devastating against relatively cheap drones. Add in the ability to fit optics and use 3.5" shells, and they would be a great tool for that job. I bet there are plenty of Baikal MP-153 and similar shotguns around Ukraine and Eastern Europe.
Bismuth (trade name Hevi-Shot) is what is preferred against drones, not the much-more expensive tungsten. It's already commercially available all over Europe, rather than being restricted to military purchasers, and bismuth being heavier than lead retains more energy farther than lead. Waterfowl loads and an extra-full choke.
Those comparing this to a shotgun are totally missing the point! How many have defended a car jacking with a 28” barrel shotgun? How many have pulled a shotgun out of a purse in an emergency? How many have used bird-scaring 12 bores on an airfield? How many launch signal carts from a shotgun on a dinghy, out at sea? This device is small enough to go almost anywhere, easy to deploy and fire, and doesn’t need to be aimed at close range. Its projectiles will not exit a house wall either. It probably wouldn’t show up on a metal scanner either! Give it some custom cartridges and the sky is literally the limit for this thing. Bird scarers aka flash-bangs. Coloured signal carts. Bird shot for vermin control. Buck for home and car invasions. Non-lethal shot bags for street muggings… Heck, with non-lethal it would be reasonably safe in a kid’s hands and keep you out of the law’s hands!
wouldn't the shotgun trigger the percussion cap on the rpg???? why is no one mentioning this if you are having to use this you are not walking away unscathed
I like the small size, but the lack of sights, and the weird grip do make it less than ideal as an anti-drone weapon. Pistol/revolver shotguns are a thing actually, and they would probably be better as a very small, lightweight anti-FPV drone weapon.
I have to assume that shooting down a drone would be next level difficult compared to shooting clays, and shooting clays with that thing would be a trick shot. It's hard enough shooting a man sized static target with an unstocked shotgun at close range. I can't even imagine trying to shoot something small and moving fast with that. What they need is grandad's bird gun.
Sure shotguns are more effective but the thing with fpv drones is that they are fast. It is highly unlikely the guy on shotgun duty could react in time to save his comrade once they are in the fpv drones sights. This would give the individual soldier a last ditch chance of stopping the drone if 1st line of defense fails. It also has other battlefield uses like being used for signal flares or putting out fires. I think it is a great idea and I think a lot of people in the comments have no idea what they are talking about.
We need a mini anti drone system that shoots physical shells like the German’s large AA that has a tracking system and air burst munitions but much smaller an could fit in a backpack with a limited amount of ammo. Even if one had just 10 20mm shells linked to a system on a lil tripod if you were in a trench or on the move it could provide a unit with serious coverage.
Typically, attack drones use a warhead from a hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher, weighing about 2 kilograms. Such a charge is dangerous for the shooter; the grenade launcher has a lock that prevents the warhead from exploding at a range of less than 20 meters. A 12 gauge shotgun can damage a drone at a range of 40 meters, no more. A hand-held device for firing 12-gauge ammunition is unlikely to be able to intercept a drone at a distance of more than 20 meters. Moreover, the drone flies very quickly, the first shot is too far away, and you may not have time to fire the second. The device is interesting, but it is unlikely to be effective. A special note about the electronic system: it may not work very well in mud or water.
Saiga type of a shottie needed, a new model though, the one that would sends hail of fragments in shortest amounts of time and with bigger mag and lesser overall caliber for bucks, to be issued to a designated AD (anti-drone) sub-class soldier (one element of a role, may be combined like - ammo carrier + AD)
FYI that is a concept which this particular radio engineer promotes. The firing community stands against such option, semi-automatic 12-gauge rifle is way better for distances up to 50meters.
Yea, there is literally a handgun that exist already, called a "Taurus Judge", that is a proper revolver that shoots the same shotgun cartridge. Difference is, Taurus you can aim, you can hold properly, and it's not plastic.
This thing is cool dont get me wrong... but at $400, no good way to aim, and needing heavy modifications you'd be better off with cheap 12ga. I think maverick has one for less then $300. Also it needs batteries to fire? That won't get you killed....
The electronics and batteries make it a bad choice for high intensity situations. Might as well carry a sawed off shorty. If they want better portability they can easily design a folding stock attachment and/or a stock with telescoping capabilities.
People here don’t seem to realize how handy this device is. Sure, I would prefer to have a 24 inch barreled semi auto with 15 shots or maybe a tavor-12-but those weapons are much heavier and larger. This seems like a handy item that could be issued in large numbers and wouldn’t take up a slot otherwise taken by a rifle
You don’t need to carry a full size shotgun, even just issuing everyone with a cut down single shot H&R shotgun would be better than this, and more affordable. Granted this thing can shoot multiple times, but given its poor ergonomics, zero sight radius and absolutely nonexistent barrel, you need to have multiple barrels for any hope of winging a drone with one of your multiple shots… A cut down single shot shotgun costs 1/4 the price, has a longer barrel for increased velocity, greater accuracy and better sight radius for better aiming. It wouldn’t be too heavy or unwieldy to issue it with a special belt scabbard, or over the shoulder scabbard. And it would be more accurate and easier to train troops to accurately use than this ‘spray and pray” device..
Have you ever held one? Few firearms have ever been so successfully marketed that are so awkward, and clumsy to handle. OTOH, few handguns are remotely as capable, ballistically, as a Judge loaded with flechette shells. Twenty-eight 2.5x40mm hardened tungsten-steel alloy darts was the standard .410 defense load among those who could make it or find it in the 1970s and 80s, from military surplus flechettes sold by the pound ($28 per pound plus $4 S&H, last time I saw them advertised). About the closest you can get, now, is to buy a box of sheets of industrial nails for a pneumatic nailer at any hardware store, and roll your own.
@@davidgoodnow269 You think this weapon would be easier to wield? The ammo cost is def a reasonable argument though, as is the much smaller load of 410 vs 12ga. But still a weird electronically fired plastic gun meant for flares and other niche rounds doesn't seem like a good solution. Neither does having to carry a duty rifle and and a traditional l12 ga shotgun on top of all the other gear they need. I think a revolver in a holster to replace the sidearm that likely rarely gets used may be a good compromise?
@@davidgoodnow269 forgot to answer the question though. Yes I thought it was fun for one cylinder of 00 buck but then my palm convinced my brain that it was super dumb. I'm a big revolver guy and regularly shoot and sometimes carry my taurus 605, but yeah buck shot def not meant to be fired from a revolver lol
@@bw4593 This signal gun is made in Ukraine, and sold in the E.U. for €400 MSRP. What's it cost a Ukrainian soldier? If I understand correctly, the shells it fires are about a half-inch bore; 28-gauge is .55-inch, so I am guessing that. It shouldn't be more than 1½-2 inches thick, so it's basically pistol-sized; just a matter of figuring out some kind of holster -- more like a sheath. I am wondering if the shells are reloadable. Electrically primed, so no primer cap -- more like a spark plug? I know almost all aircraft cannons have been electrically primed since World War II, but I don't know how that priming system works. Oh, I picked up from another comment that this guy is loading flechette, not round shot, so, much longer range and much greater damage. Steel is lighter than lead, but let me math: 4 * 66-grains is 264 grains, and 28 * 12-grains is 336 grains. I might be really off on the number of darts . . . and the weight of the darts, too! How do you like the Judge with .45 Colt? I like the Ruger Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 A.C.P. convertible, but the Judge is actually the cheapest .45 revolver I've been able to find!
@@davidgoodnow269 I thought it was using standard 12ga rounds with standard primers, just like flare guns. I think the electrical component is just for the rotation of the cylinder and moving the firing pin . I agree the flechette rounds make a lot of sense for neutralizing drones, with the added benefit of being useful if shit hits the fan and all you have is your pistol. A face full of razer sharp darts to the face is probably worse than some underpowered bird shot, though I guess I’d vote for neither 😂😂. I’ve only shot 00 buck out of the judge, but don’t own one. I have way too many other things on my list 😂. My next impractical revolver will probably be something in 500SW Mag (because obviously that’s really pleasant to shoot)
Although the barrell length (28" - 32") would be an obviouse issue, you'd have to imagine that a semi-auto wildfowling 12 or 10 bore shotgun, with a heavy wildfowling load, would be very effective against most drones/LM's. I think the main issue would be having a man-portable early warning system to allow you to deploy it in time.
With a good choke an 18” barrel is nearly as effective you really get diminishing returns as far as velocity after 18-20” in a shotgun. And believe it or not barrel length doesn’t effect pattern much it’s all about the choke. Waterfowl shotguns have long barrels to maximize sight radius, and smoothness of swing and a bit to improve velocity.
That is exactly what is being used now, and electronic detection is all about the video stream every drone continuously transmits to its controller. But Tektronics spectrum analyzer is not cheap, still about $3,000, and intended to be bench-mounted not bounced around; so most detection is purely by unaugmented humans with no training except the experience of war, because only top-level V.I.P. protective details get actual sensory training. That takes two weeks for the senses class, a week of familiarization with sensory augmentation, and then two weeks of live practice detecting and localizing drones.
The only good thing about this is its size and its light weight. But the price is genuinely outrageous for what is essentially a multi barrelled flare gun. Hell, even a flare gun has better ergonomics. They could add a foldable grip or something atleast and ditch the 5 barrelled designed and use a double barrel or quad barrel so that they could recycle already existing double barrels
Make it shoot nets!! Hat way he drones don’t blow up and if they do the shrapnel can be contained mostly within the net… idk I’m not a weapon tech person
An under barrel shotgun on your normal rifle would seem a better bet. It is something you have in your hands already. You can use the rifle at first then switch to shotgun if the drone gets close. It would be a better shotgun that the MSD-5.
I wonder if this could be non-restricted in Canada for the same reasons that the Sulun Arms SS-211 is NR. The only debatable part would be with whether or not it could be considered a hand gun. I suppose it could be, or even would be. But on that topic, the SS-211 could work in Ukraine to take out drones. It's much bulkier, but still relatively compact?
Honestly why not just use a revolver that shoots 410 shotgun shells already and make a shotshell/Birdshot to you're liking for drones. They do make some shotgun shells with little arrows/ darts in them I can't recall what they are called but I believe they would do fine with the proper wad behind them and a resin printer you could probably print the ammo.
I wouldn’t be surprised if higher density shot like tungsten we use for turkeys ends up being pushed into service. I know folks who at 100 yards still achieve a good shot pattern
Very interesting tech, and I can certainly see why people think this might be a drone defense concept. It would need refinements for sure, if naught else then at least some sights and better grip angle, but a minimalistic anti-drone "derringer" certainly sounds appealing. Short barrels would probably limit the actual velocity of shot, and I am not sure if the caused damage would be enough to swerve off an FPV drone that is probably mere metres away and closing in fast. I am hopeful that the ingenuity-under-pressure of Ukrainians will prevail again though.
You can't easily aim it, the grip angle is unnatural for instinctive shooting, the short barrel limits the velocity/range to engage drones at; the only advantage I can think of is that it's short so the pattern will open up immediately but if you're using it at that range maybe you're already in the drone blast zone. Even then they could just cut down any barrel if they felt that would help them. Despite what the designer says this can only be some kind of marketing gimmick for their signaling device. I highly doubt Eastern Europe, let alone the rest of the world, has run out of shotguns to send to Ukraine.
All those auto shotguns could be put to good use quickly out there. Otherwise some kind of shotgun CWIZ for infantry could be worth some RnD$$$ or an anti-drone drone that acts like a hawk and just automatically tracks flying drones and crashes itself into them, something cheaper than a missile.
This seems like it should be "underslung" a rifle but there's no mounting point.
It is just a gimmicky piece of crap. Both Russians and Ukrainians use actual, functional EW units to combat the drones. This is just a plastic trash to sell off to unsuspecting buyers.
The one benefit I could see to this is that it looks cheap and light so many people could be equipped with them relatively quickly.
Shotguns have gotten a lot cheaper but they're still long and relatively heavy. It's not feasible to give every person one especially front line soldiers who already carry a shit ton.
It's like a handgun but for drones I guess. Not a primary weapon, but something to arm a shit ton of people with so they have at least some level of defensive ability.
The FPV drones fly at up to 150 km/h, which makes them extremely hard to intercept with another drone. The device shown might make sense when you have 7 seconds before you hear the drone, and it hits you. If it is able to put a cloud of shrapnel between you and the drone, than OK. I agree it has to be tested yet with dozens of drones sacrificed.
I think this is more for the everyday soldier who already has a rifle/sidearm/etc and wants some kind of last line of defense from drones that's easy to carry. I think it'd be better if it could be mounted to a rifle though.
You could get like 2 pump action Mossberg 500 12 gauge shotgun kits with both a 28" and 18" inch barrel for the same price
Cascadian? Is that some new fangled branch of the lgbt?
Yeah its cheeper but it heavier. If every unit had someone carrying a shotgun they would either have to have two heavy long gun type weapons with 2 sets of ammo they have to worry about, or they would have to be less effective as a soldier because they only have the shotgun to hunt drones, plus if a drone is in shotgun range its usually too late to react quick enough
@@muggy87how about the Serbu Super Shorty?
@@Rashed1255 I mean its better to carry around than a Mossberg 500 lol. But still carrying around 3 guns would be insane for an infantry man. They got their AK, their side arm pistol, and then on top of that the shotgun plus all the ammo for all 3 lf the guns. Even if they didn't bring a pistol i feel like that infantry man could be lugging around better things like more bandages or grenades
@@muggy87sidearm pistols are not generally carried by regular line infantry though. That's a myth perpetuated by gamers and blissfully enjoyed by handgun manufacturers. Even those of us who are (no, I'm not in Ukraine) t/o'd sidearms often leave them in the armory and carry a carbine instead.
Nothing says "important" to a marksman than running around a fight without a long gun; and the ordinary grunt can't make hits with a sidearm outside twelve meters...it's just not part of the training regimen and skillset. Yeah, I'd prefer a couple more grenades than a pistol.
Yeah, better to have someone at team level around with a tactical Benelli and some 3 1/2" geese loads for fpv. Plus, with some buckshot he can still contribute for the ordinary
This looks like the shotgun you'd get out of a vending machine in Cyberpunk 2077.
It looks a bit like a pepperbox Gun (Bündelrevolver)!
yeah looks like you could make it 3d printed like a shotgun version of the harlot
no bro, like from DOOM xD
Its junk by that logic, not worth risking your life over
@@squigglesmcjr199 I agree.
Twice the cost of a entry-level 12ga shotgun for something that's mostly plastic with terrible ergonomics. The only conceivable benefit is the compact size, but for the price you could get a pair of real shotguns and have more than enough money left over for a saw. It's also pretty questionable how effective such a short barrel would be. You might have a lot of trouble shooting down a drone before you're inside its blast radius.
A double barrel would be adequate. I'm not sure how many rounds he expects to get off at a rapidly approaching drone within the engagement range given the low power and gaps in the shot pattern that come with wide spread. I'd guess one...
Its ergonomics are fine for flare, etc. launcher. The design is no doubt a conscious one to make it NOT look or feel like a gun so that they don't run afoul of the sundry firearms laws and outright bans in many places.
Yes, this isn't a good solution to FPV drones. Its effective range is probably less than the grenade that gets knocked out of the drone that was attacking you...
Yep. Try shooting skeet clay with that signal device.
@@obsidianjane4413 Yeah, trying to ‘point shoot” a glorified Roman candle is not ideal.. I’d take a single shot H&R shotgun over this thing.
@@obsidianjane4413 Agreed. For what it is designed for, it is more than likely perfectly acceptable. Just not this. Perhaps if it is used as a testbed for something more suitable?
I’m surprised both sides don’t just have a “designated drone shooter” in a squad armed with a magazine fed Saiga-style semi-auto shotgun. They’ll have natural familiarity with the ergonomics of the AK-pattern shotgun, and the logistics won’t be as badly strained by a bunch of whatever very specific ammunition this thing needs vs. regular 12 gauge. Plus, what have the Ukrainians been doing with those Mossbergs we sent them way back before the beginning of the war? I know those seemed almost as bad an insult as the German helmets back then, but I would sure like a trench gun in that environment. You could also do a little of interesting things with choke tubes and whatnot to maximize shot spreads. I just think this thing is almost just reinventing the wheel.
They're probably in the hands of prison guards, police and personal security. Just like the Kel Tec carbines that were sent. Keeping those in the rear frees up AKs for the front.
the millitairy is way slower then we think in how they adapt to things but the soldiers on the ground do adapt and maybe some groups already have that in place, I know a ytber who fundraise for thermals which he says they also use to shoot down drones in the night
This is being tested globally by different militaries.
some people made huge money off selling things before they got anywhere.
The Turkish make a 12-gauge 3½-inch turkey shotgun, 24-inch with interchangeable chokes but it comes with an extra-full choke tube and a red-dot sight, those are extremely popular. Switch the extra-full for a rifled choke tube and load .50/12.7mm armor-piercing sabot slugs if drones aren't the immediate problem. Made for the U.S. export market (the only place in the world with wild turkeys), these have become extremely popular with both sides over there.
The Soviets built a licensed version of the Remington 870, scaled up to 23mm (something like 8-gauge, 12-gauge is 18mm) and barrelled from cut-down sections from worn-out anti-aircraft guns. These were used exclusively by prison guards in the old days, but have proven extremely effective against FPV drones in Ukraine.
Im sorry but why is no one talking about the fact you can use this thing to spray fucking plants with pesticides, like why, just why
Those aphids were coming right at me! 🤭
Acorn defense
When you're a gardener but you're way into Starship Troopers.
The best I can think of is if you have a plant in a hard to get to place, where you can't put a ladder. Otherwise you'd just get a ladder and a regular plant pray gun.
They made an Agent Orange gun?
In order to get any range out of that thing you'll need a fast-burning powder and plenty of it. I'm not convinced the barrel could hold it. There is significant smoke in the demo, most likely from a low pressure black powder charge which obscures visibility and lacks range. As a shotgun shooter I have to point out an issue with wide shot dispersion from short barrels: there are huge gaps between the pellets. Impossible to aim, unnatural grip angle, low rate of fire. You'd be better off mag dumping at the drone.
It's a piece of crap and shows how unprepared the soldiers are. I would carry my Benelli M4, just because, but I had a drone buzz my home and couldn't even see it. When I did spot it, the fucker was long gone and out of range.
A comment reply I read suggested the 'extra' in the video from the indoor range could be chaff and flare elements added to jam or blind the drone in the last moments before it hits. Just another person's thoughts, but I thought they could be good ones.
There is many videos on youtube of people testing bird shot in flare guns made of plastic like this. They all explode...
Basically a weaponized roman candle.
That’s actually not a bad idea. As a similar concept to WW2 flack artillery…
More like a old Pepperbox Gun (Bündelrevolver)
While the tubes can be upgraded with steel, the backing plate looks to still be plastic, and I'm wondering about the locking method.
Drones aren't especially tough but I'm not sure using a reduced charge is going to be helpful in taking them down.
One idea jumping up and down in my head is making 40mm grenades with proxy fuses; suddenly a common rifle grenade launcher can be very effective in swatting drones.
Really wouldn't want to use any sizeable load with it. As you say the backplate would need strengthening.
A rotary 40mm, even with buckshot loads, would be an improvement.
I had been thinking about 40 mm anti drone weapons as well. Those are available with every squad.
@@donwyoming1936 Buckshot will leave too big gaps for any reasonable distance where you
can actually see those small drones.
Had to be relatively small birdshot to actually hit.
Drones are overally constructed very lighty for sake of range and mobility.
It is not about will potential hit penetrate and do damage. It is all about actully
spotting it before it is too late anyway.
Overally taking those small bomb drones down with firearms is next to impossible.
Electronical devices are far better for that job.
@@donwyoming1936How many rounds do you think you'd get off within range when the drone is coming at you at 60km/hr? A single barrel would probably be all, and they already have those.
looks like crap ergonomics and I doubt the range is great for such short barrel. And 400 EUROS?! Might as well use the money to buy a semi-auto shotgun in 12GA rather than the 410 shells that I assume are being used.
Yes, semi automatic shotgun with tungsten buckshot. Real range and volume of pellets.
When you look at most vids of FPV drones/drone dropped grenades, the person, if they even see the drone coming, often only has 3-10 seconds to respond. It also happens at times when people don't expect it (behind their own lines, random drones flying over the trenches, etc, not necessarily in the middle of battle) so I think there's an advantage in having a small gun which is very simple that you can just point in the general direction and fire very quickly. If you're a regular infantryman you might not wanna carry around a larger shotgun and a dedicated guy would be useful but 5 second wouldn't be a long time if you have to get the attention of your buddy and they have to successfully shoot it down while in combat.
Although the price is outrageous, I feel like the point of this should be that it's super cheap and easy to arm every soldier as a last line of defense against drones.
Judging by what was said in video, this thing fires extended .410 shells, they are extra long (88 mm). Maybe it would still fit conventional .410 shells too.
They want some of that Ukraine aid $$$
@@monkemode8128"see" you use your ears. You hear drones before you see them. You want the tool that works, not justifying a bad idea because you've never shot skeet once and immediately understood how useless this thing would be.
I am at a distinct lack of time at the moment, but I want to see people actually put drones downrange and try it on them. The closeness and speed of the FPVs make them a very hard targets for handheld firearms in general. If you don't believe me, go watch people at a skeet range.
I shoot trap, I would have to switch guns, or use the shotgun as a primary weapon/ They are very hard to spot, unlike clays being fired from known positions. I could fill the sky with 7.5 shot and still miss it, even with a 7 shot semi-auto. They are very hard to locate that fucking noise.
Training and then equipping for drone detection is the key. So far, only people on top-level V.I.P. protective details get that training.
@@davidgoodnow269 Detecting these drones isn't that hard actually, they are freaking *loud* and have a very distinctive noise.
with a 3" mag shell this thing would knock your hand off.
im sitting here looking at the 3.5" #4 buck sitting on my desk just laughing at the possibilities. no sane manageable load out of this thing would take down so much as a kite tho.
@@johjoh978 but hey mount a scope on it put 3" mags in it. And let people try. It would be highly amusing to say the least. The local ER would make bank........
It would also frag you as it blew apart. I know a guy who shotguns one-handed - that's all he's got - but his gun weighs more and is a tad more ergonomic.
Nah. It would probably explode in all honesty, but if not it wouldn't have time in the bore to burn more than a fraction of the powder.
@@The_sinner_Jim_WhitneyOh, I dunno. Overenthusiastic shot load, nice fast powder like ASP300 in that long case of theirs and I'm pretty sure I could accept that challenge :)
Pistol grip feels very necessary to add
That would make it "gun like". Its not a gun.
@@obsidianjane4413its a shotgun bro
@@gadielplays2419not really
@@obsidianjane4413 for whats going on righy now in ukraine, i dont think a "gun like" is a problem tho...
@@obsidianjane4413 If I’m going into a war zone, I’m going to take something‘gun like” over something ‘not gun like”…
I could see this being really useful mounted in a under barreled configuration
But then, if underbarreled, the moment you aim this thing you already have a weapon with longer range and higher rate of fire trained onto the target...?
not really, m203 gl is hated and everyone says is usless crap on your weapon, but everyone loves the m320 wich you can fire from the shoulder no need to mount on the weapon
@@talscorner3696 Because the shotgun shell has pellet like things inside it which spread out after firing. If a soldier was REALLY good and could just hit the drone it wouldn't matter but if they're not so skilled, stressed out in combat, etc then they can use a shotgun and as long as the gun is pointing in the general direction it will hit.
@ode8128 Pellets don't go as far as solid ball.
And, when they do go as far as, say, 50 meters (which is still danger close for a drone, as far as I can tell), they do not remain close enough to each other to *ensure* that when you go click with a shotgun, the drone goes splat.
But if you can shoot the shotgun beneath the barrel of your rifle... you can shoot the rifle, too, at a range much greater than the 50 meters at which *maybe* a shotgun can get some result.
And the rifle has automatic fire.
And there's at the very least 5 or 6 more in the unit.
Plus, somebody has to find the shotguns, feed the shotguns, find the spares for the shotguns, carry the shotguns on top of every other piece of kit for the unit and so on and so forth.
@rner3696 Yeah but it's difficult to shoot them you can get an idea from /r/CombatFootage, Telegram, and X. You can see people firing at recon drones (which are a lot slower) and 1 or 2 guys will unload on it and nothing happens. Although I doubt either side is posting videos of their own drones getting shot down. Recently a vid came out where a guy actually did take down a drone but it was too close and he still blew up so it's a concern. Most of the time you don't see the drone 50m out. Again looking at FPV drone strike vids people only notice 3-5 seconds before they hit. In some vids the drone comes from behind and the person doesn't even flinch. IDK how common this is but in an interview with a Ukranian he said the drones are really hard to hear not only because they're quiet but also because a lot of the weapons used by both sides are VERY loud (like AKs, artillery, grenades, etc) and it makes those duller and quieter sounds a lot harder to hear. They're a small target and the operator can see the enemy, fly behind cover, fly in from the direction of the sun, IDK, whatever you could think of to hide a drone.
I have a few packs of 12ga shotgun shells designed for counter-drone applications. They contain some weights which expand a net, for entangling the props. Claimed maximum effective range is 40 yards but I think that's optimistic. In tests, it's proven very difficult to take down drones with small arms of any kind if they are aimed by a human. Drones move fast and are hard to see.,
I could see this being effective in more of a "pistol" format rather than a stockless shotgun setup. The grip angle makes this harder to aim, and for someone in the field having the device require both batteries and special ammo is not great. A 5 or 6 shot pepperbox style pistol would serve the same function, but be more reliable as regular shotshells are a tried and true thing by now.
don't get me wrong, the idea has a lot of merit, a small firearm that can sling shot is going to have a higher chance of hitting a drone than a rifle by virtue of how shotguns work. The issue is that the shells for this use a firing mechanism that requires batteries. There's a reason no military uses electrically fired firearms, too much can go wrong in the field from water to just simple dirt getting in between the contacts.
Id definitely take a cut down Single barrel H&R shotgun over this thing, for the ergonomics and better sight radius alone.
You aren't wrong about batteries, but the *123 batteries this uses were the motherboard CMOS batteries for all Apple desktop computers from the start. They last five years before they start going bad.
But you are wrong about military ammunition, all aircraft cannon have used electrical primers since World War II, so prior to 1940, and do to this day. It's much more reliable than conventional primers, but as you say, it has never been popular on the ground. The presence of clouds tells me that humidity is not the issue. I don't know if it is truly a problem or not, but I recall some General citing the possibility of static electricity being a potential problem, in opposition to caseless rifle ammunition, in a Congressional hearing in the 1980s.
If this is already marketed in the E.U. as a signal gun for rescue, I expect some agency or bureau in Germany has gone full anal testing it.
@@Beuwen_The_Dragon Snake Charmer, just please make it a 28-gauge (.55-inch) instead of .410 bore!
any shotgun like weapon is a last ditch effort better than nothing when you are being chased around by a drone. But ultimately early detection is the best tool because in reality most troops dont have time to react. The few videos we see of people running around and trying to dodge a drone is rare as often the drones dont miss on the first strike or it isnt in a position to be detected early enough. Though drones can be loud like a whole hive of bees you wont notice the sound when its a few hundred feet in the air, and by the time you hear it, you likely have 3-5 secounds to react and even then these drones are small in comparison to actual aircraft so spotting its position yourself is hard by that time ur likely dead. to defend against a drone you not only need to hear it in time but see it and draw a weapon to engage it 3-5 secs isnt exactly the best time to do all that in
Given the large amount of sparks and still burning gunpowder coming out of the barrel in the video, I'm guessing that because the barrel is so short, there is incomplete combustion, thereby robbing it of much of its energy, which in turn would reduce the recoil.
I believe there is a similar 4 barreled russian pistol with a more traditional grip that is also electrically fired. I believe its meant for less lethal rounds. Its called the OSA or wasp pistol or the PB-4SP.
Yeah the Osa, 18x45mm is basically short round 12ga, and optionally with an aluminum slug (if not rubber bullet). It would be so hard to hit an FPV though even with a grip. I think the main reasoning here is as wide dispersion as possible and a lucky hit at very short range; even 2-3 meters off still gives a chance, as footage shows
Gee it’s taken such a long time to find a sensible countermeasure, the option of different shells could also come with a longer range flak capacity detonation like ww2 flak for some situations where they are expecting incoming drones and working in a team where others are firing the short range shells, to get it earlier.
I always thought the USAS-12 shotgun would make a good close range, drone killer. But any shotgun would do. Benelli M4 would do fine.
Especially with TSS super shot. I could even see tanks and IFVs being armed with some radar or IR directed drone defense weapons.
Naw. Benelli Supernova or Nova. Affordable combat pumps that can also handle 3 1/2" shells. With a #1 or #2 load (geese loads) in a 3 1/2" you can reach out.
Besides, #1 birdshot is .17 caliber, it's actually capable enough on a man if you're truly desperate and 3 1/2" provides ALOT of pellets.
@@JD-tn5lzI’m with ya on the nova/super nova but with tungsten shot #5 or #6 would have way more pellets and maintain energy longer than a #1 or #2 steel
The Turkish clone of the Binelli Supernova, indeed with an extra-full choke and waterfowl loads, is what is being used in Ukraine. There's a version that was marketed for hunting wild turkey in the US, that comes with a red-dot sight and everything, that is extremely popular.
I like the Mossberg Shockwave, Remington TAC 14 and the V3 TAC 13 for similar benefits. But this is a nifty little device. Especially the fire fighting capability.
There's also the Taurus Judge 6 round revolver which can shoot .410 Shotgun shells, .45 Colt, and even .454 Casull with the Raging Judge model.
Later into the war in Afghanistan friends of mine who served saw the Taliban starting to use drones for both overmatch and dropping the odd grenade or mortar round. Some of the Australians units (and probably others) started to be issued with Mossberg 500‘s and some extra range time doing skeet shooting, it was apparently very effective.
Granted the big jump in drone tech since then, but at least it’s a proof of concept.
Love the comments replying to people saying a regular shotgun would be better like "But soldiers aren't gonna carry a shotgun and a rifle." That is LITERALLY what the Ukranians are doing right now lmao. A Mossberg 500 is not an uncommon sight in Ukraine. It's not uncommon for a good few people in a unit to be carrying RPG's, NLAW's, and Javelins on their back and others get to carry the ammo. The dude who gets to carry a seven pound shotgun is probably one happy guy. Also ask the Marines who were in Fallujah, at the right range, a semi auto shotgun is absolutely a capable weapon system in modern combat.
regular soldiers only Carry a rifle?
😅 soldiers that return use every item at his disposal...
In WWI shotguns were very useful in trench warfare. A 12 ga Remington 870 with BB shot would probably work well to knock down FPVs. The first line of defense seems to be jamming transmitters that prevent operators from seeing the FPV's camera feeds. They also jam the RC signals, although with spread spectrum radios that's harder to do.
You are so clueless lmfao go sniff your rear end some more. Soldiers have been carrying shotguns as breaching weapons and room clearing weapons as secondary to their rifle FOREVER U R NOT SMART BLUH
Then you realize marines in fallujah used shotguns against people wearing tablecloths, not plate carriers and helmets
@@dannydanny2789 You realize 5.45x39 out of an AK-74 doesn’t penetrate body armor much better than a 12 gauge either right? Still plenty of guys dead from that so…
id pick the mossberg shockwave. more versatile than just in this application
Maybe hand held is not the best way to employ these but to mount them say a cluster of 4-6 on a trainable stand mounted on a vehicle with proper sites and able to handle the recoil.
For example a Stryker has two hatches in the rear where one could mount a cluster for each of the hatches... perhaps.
It's actually pretty compact I like it
Flare Gun
Ignoring the price, could it be used for Drone to Drone Air Combat? It has already electric fired, has low recoil and weights less than 1kg...
. . . I like the way you think.
I have a friend who enjoys a Chinese-built ducted electric turbofan jet 1/3 scale A-10 Warthog, and have been trying to figure out how to arm it as a defending anti-drone interceptor to protect Lighter-Than-Air communications bouys.
1kg is a reasonable large amount of weight if you want your drone to be nimble and able to intercept another drone. Majorly impacts flight performance and time
This design reminds me of the phaser from star trek TNG. The cast of that show complained all the time about how difficult it was to try and aim those things anywhere remotely near a target.
You get better accuracy with a goddamn slingshot
let me show you its features xD
@@AIC_onyt *happy giant German laugh* 😂
@@abdou.the.heretic
*streches rubber*
BANG
HA HA HA HA
when guns are illegal in your country, you have to become the gun
And velocity for that matter
@@hateforall4012 yup, just look at how much unburned powder it throws out, like a melee flamethrower 😭
Yes! Perfect! You'll want to use birdshot. You can also use folded up nets inside of the shotgun shell that will tangle up the props on the drone.
That thing looks like it would be difficult to hit a drone with. Hard to aim and all. It looks small enough to strap on the side of a pack though, so defiantly easier to carry than a normal shotgun.
As for other uses, seems like it is not really something that is needed. A cheap plastic flare gun works just fine, and a fire extinguisher seems more effective. Looks awesome to load and play around with though, ha. Would defiantly have fun shooting flares out of it even if I do not NEED such a capable flare gun.
The anti drone equivalent of the Handflammpatrone
Wrist breaker..why not issue 870 wing master..longer barrel to group shots...short barrel is not useful for longer range shot guns.
they're already holding the rifle so they need one of those that attaches similar to a grenade launcher would be faster to employ and longer range, if it was electric primed like the flare gun it should cost about 20 pounds instead of 450 but it's single shot not 5 ....a grenade launcher has a much larger spread so probably still as effective as all five ...(?)
This Derringer-like thing is a pretty interesting concept, but you're asking a lot out of people's aiming ability to use this against FPVs. It's also probably a bit too big for the role, could probably cut out a barrel or two and still be about as effective at it while being slimmer.
With such a short barrel the shot opens up immediately giving it short range. In the video you can see it open up and almost hit the ceiling so it looks like you'll be in range when the drone explodes. You can get a Mossberg for $700 and it'll do the job better.
The way the MSD-5 is held in order to “aim” seems like serious limiting factor in its effectiveness against drones. Conventional shotguns with bead sights obviously would be superior but they’re larger and wouldn’t be available to everyone. I think the solution would be to select a domestically manufactured pump action shotgun and to make a cheap, light, short barreled version of them to mass produce. Enough to keep at least one in a fighting position.
I think an underslung shotgun would be more useful and anything more than 3 shots is pointless as you wouldn't have the time, the closing speed is so fast and also you need to kill the vehicle at a significant distance to prevent the momentum carrying it through to the target.
Maybe there's only a chance for one powerful shot like a 40mm buckshot shell.
Also, would it be possible to have something like a 40mm grenade that detonated at a set distance? Like as soon as it reached safe arming distance it detonates.
I know the form factor would be smallish.. but I think that we have progressed enough with electronics that one could make 12ga rounds with an old school inspired simple prox fuse designed to disperse small high velocity shrapnel. I.e. a mini version of old school AA artillery.
Is the payload underpowered? Yes. Are drones small, fragile, and likely to be critically damaged from them? Also yes. Compromising velocity a little would allow for a decent amount of workable space in a 3 or 3.5" magnum footprint. Would need rifled barrels and some copper driving band on the projectile. That could even increase shrapnel produced if it is a long thin engagement ring centered around the explosive payload.
Too bad you cannot get the coiled shavings from a lathe, and find a way to make centrifugal force spread it open.
Jamming the signal is the easiest way to go. Ive had my fpv video freeze up just from other drones being too close.
As a long time skeet sport clays shooter, when i fist saw the FPV drones, i instantly thought, where are the shot guns?
City Boys from Kiev Can't Skeet
Redesigned AA-12 would be a better idea I think. 3 1/2 magnum chambering and a 32" goose barrel or make the barrel a two piece design if your worried about transporting.
A Turkish company was marketing a shotgun in the US for hunting wild turkey, about $420 with a red-dot sight, extra-full removable choke tube, 24" barrel, handles 12-gauge 2¾, 3, and 3½. Those have been selling really well to both sides, I see.
I just thought I had a brilliant idea... and here it is. The search goes on.
The projectile should disperse a wide range and pattern of fine monofilament line to jam up the fpv propellers. Much like the smoke and flare launchers on tanks, a suitcase sized device can be developed for extended portable protection along with hand held devices.
I almost want to just say forget the combat uses of this thing, because until this video I had NEVER even imagined shell loads that have utility like some of these. Puts out fires? Spray pesticides???
That shit is pretty nuts right? Or have I just somehow gone over a decade of weekly shotgun shooting and managed to never hear about these?
FWIW I think this thing could actually be a pretty solid anti-fpv tool if it could get some tweaks ergonomically. I think the fact that it’s so tiny will actually make it more effective since it should allow you to “keep up” with fpv level speed/agility while you aim. That being said, it needs some changes to the design for sure. At the moment it looks like you’re shooting a brick. Even if it’s something as small as some molded in finger holds on the “grip”. Ideally for ergonomics you’d want to actually give the grip some level of curve or angle relative to the barrels, BUT I actually think the straight/in-line design here might be helpful with defending against fpv’s in a similar way that having a smaller weapon helps.
You (unlike most, here) have got it in one. I used to fence, so I know very well that this grip-angle is not a problem.
The biggest problem I saw was finding a gun-bucket to hold it, but then I thought, "A cargo pocket and creative use of velcro can fix this."
Honestly idk who to send this to but I would suggest tungsten #9 shot for drone defense in a standard shotgun. The tungsten has more weight than lead, doesn't deform like lead and provides more momentum and kinetic energy on target. The tungsten also holds tighter patterns for longer distances compared to lead so would provide increased distance when firing at the drone. The #9 shot has a very long shot string and should be a great option but perhaps some experimenting may be required to verify it is in fact kinetic enough to down the drone.
I like how you're thinking, but I think no9 is just too light even if it is tungsten. Drones a tougher than birds.
What would the range be? Their device would be unlikely to hurt a drone at 100 ft which is way below the altitude a small drone can operate at. From videos, the small drones seem to hunt at a 300 ft or more while looking for targets.
I’d say larger than #9 like #5 or #6 in 12GA with a full choke would be effective up to 80-90 yards.
@davidater9 yeah the device in the video is an absolute no for me. I was just putting another idea out. I'm referring to using a standard shotgun with a barrel length between 18 and 28 inches however using some of the newer shot shell technologies and techniques with a specific purpose for drone defense.
One of the reasons you will get deeper penetration and effect from the smaller more dense pellets is because of sectional density, more weight condensed into a smaller space puts more pressure into an impact point. Think about crossing over a frozen pond, if you lay out flat your bodyweight is spread over a larger area meaning you won't fall through compared to if you stepped onto the ice and had all of your body weight on one foot you would be more likely to break through.
You do not want to load regular 12g shells in that!! Flares use slower burn propellant and the peak pressures are low enough it can be fired from a plastic barrel. You will turn the barrel in to a pipe bomb if the pressure is too high, this needs a complete redesign if used with regular shot
I'm more interested in the possibility of having the different shells such as the fire extinguishing round or aerial flare or a fire-starting round which would have a short range and burn for several minutes! Of course, they would have to be regular (i.e.primer fired) shells usable in any standard 12 gauge shotgun and not be too costly!
All of the safety regulations are why 12-gauge signal guns fire 14-gauge flares now, star shells are illegal in the United States of America, and that all-plastic single-shot 12-gauge rescue gun costs way over $400 now, and replacement shells are no longer sold separately.
So, dream on! When I was a kid, I could walk in to a Dick's Sporting Goods and buy one for a Boy Scouts weekend hike, and it still had a 12-gauge bore (and a warning it would explode if a regular 12-gauge shell was fired in it; since it only cost $28, this was something the Scout Master would demonstrate as a real warning), and since people liked to fire them over the lake, they sold the flares and star shells by the 10-round box!
M203s fit right under a typical Algo-unmentionable platform.
A 40mm shell with a mesh that spreads out would tangle the blades real fast.
A proximity fused 40mm might be viable. Lightweight round for higher velocity. Doesnt take much to knock out a drone IF you can hit i
i can remember the mythbusters episode where it demonstrated the danger of gripping a revolver in the wrong place. how would this plastic thing go after emptying the magazine. i also think a cone shaped guard on the end is necessary to make sure your fingers dont accidentally get in the way of things flying out the barrel while you are trying to control kickback. nice flaregun though.
yeah, a 12-gauge saiga that fits in a school backpack is better. Also, I've heard rumors that it can be converted to fire full auto. Also, if we want compact there's taurus judge, cheaper, better, multifunctional, rifled .410 birdshot can spread just as good.
There is a Revolver model from Taurus called RT-410 "The Judge" that uses 36 Gauge ammunition, basically a reduced version of the 12 Gauge, capable of hunting ammunition as multiple spheres. But, I don't know if this would be efficient at long range, since it's a revolver.
Honestly this seems like a bad solution. If they want a compact reliable one why not a M&P12 or 590 shockwave or something? This thing looks like it will fail when you need it. Also looks next to impossible to aim at something as small as a DJI 30-60 meters above you.
I actually think this is a good design from a prototype perspective.
If we Assume the following
Its a last ditch/general issue sidearm for drone/secondary uses.
The design gives you rapid shot capacity WITHOUT the weight/length of a semi/automatic shotgun, something a pump action cannot provide.
I would make the following changes to make a practical variant.
up gauge(increase small pellet density and consistency of spread)
decrease barrels to 3(reduce weight due to increased gauge/barrel length)
use plain steel, not composite(reduce cost)
Increase barrel length by 3" (it actually has some punch)
pistol grip.(so if using it alone you can actually aim/shoot/handle recoil)
attachable to rifles.(does it even need to be said?)
In this way it becomes a low cost, relatively light multi shot anti drone sidearm/underslung rifle attachment...
Plus the Volunteers would not Complain cuz deaded
Seems like something given to soldiers to make them ‘feel’ like they have a chance.
Omg that flame extinguisher is so coool!!! Love jt
People dismissing the compact and weight as trivial in relation to price for a normal shotty have clearly never been in conflict. Carrying another platform weapon is completely unacceptable weight addition and would require a designated troop to use who will then likely be useless in other contact. Not only that but it would have a high chance of setting the shotty down in the trench etc and not having it on hand when the FPV shows up. This is small enough literally every dude could carry it and have it on a belt or holster, or something. If an FPV shows up then you have possible volley fire and other tactics for use. This is WAY better than a shotty for FPV AA defense.
Put it on an under barrel rail, and with a few simple mods you've got a gd breaching tool.
I always thought something like this, or the American Liberator shotgun might be useful as an anti-drone PDW. Maybe, loose the batteries and go for a mechanical trigger, them pump them out en-mass for everyone. A fine birdshot combined with a basic bead type sight might help. It would certainly give confidence to soldiers in the field.
Just do a minimalist over under version to be carried easily. And add a few inches to the barrel
I have an antique bank gun which is a small punt gun they were designed to shoot down bird flocks.
I think something like that would shoot down a drone
A full size shotgun would be much easier to use against drones AND it still works in combat against other people, especially for troops that aren't on the front lines (artillery, trucks, etc). And if people insist assault rifles are necessary instead of making the shotgun very small I'd issue Pistol/Compact ARs and keep the shotgun full size. An AR pistol is probably better in trenches and urban areas anyways.
The problem is FPVs have explosive payloads with a kill radius exceeding the practical range of this weapon.
The easiest way to adapt it would be to use a steel hull with a thick wall. A flechette load would be cool as hell.
I think something similar to the bonus system is needed. Smaller obviously but a one-shot fire and forget weapon for each solder
I'm surprised we haven't seen more 3-gun style semi auto shotguns being used for drone defense. They can hold a lot of rounds, engage targets past 70 metres with the right ammo and chokes, and deliver significant payloads of tungsten pellets, which would be devastating against relatively cheap drones. Add in the ability to fit optics and use 3.5" shells, and they would be a great tool for that job. I bet there are plenty of Baikal MP-153 and similar shotguns around Ukraine and Eastern Europe.
Bismuth (trade name Hevi-Shot) is what is preferred against drones, not the much-more expensive tungsten. It's already commercially available all over Europe, rather than being restricted to military purchasers, and bismuth being heavier than lead retains more energy farther than lead.
Waterfowl loads and an extra-full choke.
Those comparing this to a shotgun are totally missing the point! How many have defended a car jacking with a 28” barrel shotgun? How many have pulled a shotgun out of a purse in an emergency? How many have used bird-scaring 12 bores on an airfield? How many launch signal carts from a shotgun on a dinghy, out at sea?
This device is small enough to go almost anywhere, easy to deploy and fire, and doesn’t need to be aimed at close range. Its projectiles will not exit a house wall either. It probably wouldn’t show up on a metal scanner either!
Give it some custom cartridges and the sky is literally the limit for this thing. Bird scarers aka flash-bangs. Coloured signal carts. Bird shot for vermin control. Buck for home and car invasions. Non-lethal shot bags for street muggings… Heck, with non-lethal it would be reasonably safe in a kid’s hands and keep you out of the law’s hands!
It is very suitable for adding rail buckles to become M4 carbine lower hanging accessories.
wouldn't the shotgun trigger the percussion cap on the rpg???? why is no one mentioning this
if you are having to use this you are not walking away unscathed
Use it to fire a small nylon net that envelopes the drone. Like a bola or a hand-held fishing net.
I like the small size, but the lack of sights, and the weird grip do make it less than ideal as an anti-drone weapon. Pistol/revolver shotguns are a thing actually, and they would probably be better as a very small, lightweight anti-FPV drone weapon.
I have to assume that shooting down a drone would be next level difficult compared to shooting clays, and shooting clays with that thing would be a trick shot. It's hard enough shooting a man sized static target with an unstocked shotgun at close range. I can't even imagine trying to shoot something small and moving fast with that. What they need is grandad's bird gun.
Very interesting
Sure shotguns are more effective but the thing with fpv drones is that they are fast. It is highly unlikely the guy on shotgun duty could react in time to save his comrade once they are in the fpv drones sights. This would give the individual soldier a last ditch chance of stopping the drone if 1st line of defense fails. It also has other battlefield uses like being used for signal flares or putting out fires. I think it is a great idea and I think a lot of people in the comments have no idea what they are talking about.
It is better than nothing to be sure. But a multi-barrel slamfire 12ga would work as easy and be easily made with scrape iron tubing.
We need a mini anti drone system that shoots physical shells like the German’s large AA that has a tracking system and air burst munitions but much smaller an could fit in a backpack with a limited amount of ammo. Even if one had just 10 20mm shells linked to a system on a lil tripod if you were in a trench or on the move it could provide a unit with serious coverage.
Typically, attack drones use a warhead from a hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher, weighing about 2 kilograms. Such a charge is dangerous for the shooter; the grenade launcher has a lock that prevents the warhead from exploding at a range of less than 20 meters.
A 12 gauge shotgun can damage a drone at a range of 40 meters, no more. A hand-held device for firing 12-gauge ammunition is unlikely to be able to intercept a drone at a distance of more than 20 meters. Moreover, the drone flies very quickly, the first shot is too far away, and you may not have time to fire the second.
The device is interesting, but it is unlikely to be effective. A special note about the electronic system: it may not work very well in mud or water.
Geeze, that would be insane for clearing rooms or attaching to drones
Saiga type of a shottie needed, a new model though, the one that would sends hail of fragments in shortest amounts of time and with bigger mag and lesser overall caliber for bucks, to be issued to a designated AD (anti-drone) sub-class soldier (one element of a role, may be combined like - ammo carrier + AD)
FYI that is a concept which this particular radio engineer promotes. The firing community stands against such option, semi-automatic 12-gauge rifle is way better for distances up to 50meters.
Yea, there is literally a handgun that exist already, called a "Taurus Judge", that is a proper revolver that shoots the same shotgun cartridge. Difference is, Taurus you can aim, you can hold properly, and it's not plastic.
…looks like a 12 Gauge 3.5” 00 buckshot shell would fit nicely 😂 …close-quarters defence?..No sweat!
Just get a damn drone jammer
This thing is cool dont get me wrong... but at $400, no good way to aim, and needing heavy modifications you'd be better off with cheap 12ga. I think maverick has one for less then $300. Also it needs batteries to fire? That won't get you killed....
The electronics and batteries make it a bad choice for high intensity situations.
Might as well carry a sawed off shorty. If they want better portability they can easily design a folding stock attachment and/or a stock with telescoping capabilities.
People here don’t seem to realize how handy this device is. Sure, I would prefer to have a 24 inch barreled semi auto with 15 shots or maybe a tavor-12-but those weapons are much heavier and larger. This seems like a handy item that could be issued in large numbers and wouldn’t take up a slot otherwise taken by a rifle
You don’t need to carry a full size shotgun, even just issuing everyone with a cut down single shot H&R shotgun would be better than this, and more affordable.
Granted this thing can shoot multiple times, but given its poor ergonomics, zero sight radius and absolutely nonexistent barrel, you need to have multiple barrels for any hope of winging a drone with one of your multiple shots…
A cut down single shot shotgun costs 1/4 the price, has a longer barrel for increased velocity, greater accuracy and better sight radius for better aiming. It wouldn’t be too heavy or unwieldy to issue it with a special belt scabbard, or over the shoulder scabbard. And it would be more accurate and easier to train troops to accurately use than this ‘spray and pray” device..
Why not something like a Taurus Judge or Smith and Wesson governor? Seems like they would be safer and easier to carry/maintain/train on?
Have you ever held one?
Few firearms have ever been so successfully marketed that are so awkward, and clumsy to handle.
OTOH, few handguns are remotely as capable, ballistically, as a Judge loaded with flechette shells. Twenty-eight 2.5x40mm hardened tungsten-steel alloy darts was the standard .410 defense load among those who could make it or find it in the 1970s and 80s, from military surplus flechettes sold by the pound ($28 per pound plus $4 S&H, last time I saw them advertised).
About the closest you can get, now, is to buy a box of sheets of industrial nails for a pneumatic nailer at any hardware store, and roll your own.
@@davidgoodnow269 You think this weapon would be easier to wield? The ammo cost is def a reasonable argument though, as is the much smaller load of 410 vs 12ga. But still a weird electronically fired plastic gun meant for flares and other niche rounds doesn't seem like a good solution. Neither does having to carry a duty rifle and and a traditional l12 ga shotgun on top of all the other gear they need. I think a revolver in a holster to replace the sidearm that likely rarely gets used may be a good compromise?
@@davidgoodnow269 forgot to answer the question though. Yes I thought it was fun for one cylinder of 00 buck but then my palm convinced my brain that it was super dumb. I'm a big revolver guy and regularly shoot and sometimes carry my taurus 605, but yeah buck shot def not meant to be fired from a revolver lol
@@bw4593 This signal gun is made in Ukraine, and sold in the E.U. for €400 MSRP. What's it cost a Ukrainian soldier?
If I understand correctly, the shells it fires are about a half-inch bore; 28-gauge is .55-inch, so I am guessing that. It shouldn't be more than 1½-2 inches thick, so it's basically pistol-sized; just a matter of figuring out some kind of holster -- more like a sheath.
I am wondering if the shells are reloadable. Electrically primed, so no primer cap -- more like a spark plug? I know almost all aircraft cannons have been electrically primed since World War II, but I don't know how that priming system works.
Oh, I picked up from another comment that this guy is loading flechette, not round shot, so, much longer range and much greater damage.
Steel is lighter than lead, but let me math: 4 * 66-grains is 264 grains, and 28 * 12-grains is 336 grains. I might be really off on the number of darts . . . and the weight of the darts, too!
How do you like the Judge with .45 Colt? I like the Ruger Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 A.C.P. convertible, but the Judge is actually the cheapest .45 revolver I've been able to find!
@@davidgoodnow269 I thought it was using standard 12ga rounds with standard primers, just like flare guns. I think the electrical component is just for the rotation of the cylinder and moving the firing pin . I agree the flechette rounds make a lot of sense for neutralizing drones, with the added benefit of being useful if shit hits the fan and all you have is your pistol. A face full of razer sharp darts to the face is probably worse than some underpowered bird shot, though I guess I’d vote for neither 😂😂. I’ve only shot 00 buck out of the judge, but don’t own one. I have way too many other things on my list 😂. My next impractical revolver will probably be something in 500SW Mag (because obviously that’s really pleasant to shoot)
Although the barrell length (28" - 32") would be an obviouse issue, you'd have to imagine that a semi-auto wildfowling 12 or 10 bore shotgun, with a heavy wildfowling load, would be very effective against most drones/LM's. I think the main issue would be having a man-portable early warning system to allow you to deploy it in time.
With a good choke an 18” barrel is nearly as effective you really get diminishing returns as far as velocity after 18-20” in a shotgun. And believe it or not barrel length doesn’t effect pattern much it’s all about the choke. Waterfowl shotguns have long barrels to maximize sight radius, and smoothness of swing and a bit to improve velocity.
That is exactly what is being used now, and electronic detection is all about the video stream every drone continuously transmits to its controller. But Tektronics spectrum analyzer is not cheap, still about $3,000, and intended to be bench-mounted not bounced around; so most detection is purely by unaugmented humans with no training except the experience of war, because only top-level V.I.P. protective details get actual sensory training. That takes two weeks for the senses class, a week of familiarization with sensory augmentation, and then two weeks of live practice detecting and localizing drones.
Do a 2 shot larger guage rocket projectile with proximity burst, preloaded and at the same size.
The only good thing about this is its size and its light weight. But the price is genuinely outrageous for what is essentially a multi barrelled flare gun. Hell, even a flare gun has better ergonomics. They could add a foldable grip or something atleast and ditch the 5 barrelled designed and use a double barrel or quad barrel so that they could recycle already existing double barrels
Make it shoot nets!! Hat way he drones don’t blow up and if they do the shrapnel can be contained mostly within the net… idk I’m not a weapon tech person
An under barrel shotgun on your normal rifle would seem a better bet.
It is something you have in your hands already.
You can use the rifle at first then switch to shotgun if the drone gets close.
It would be a better shotgun that the MSD-5.
you mean to tell me we don't have an existing 12g/20g shotguns that already existing
I wonder if this could be non-restricted in Canada for the same reasons that the Sulun Arms SS-211 is NR.
The only debatable part would be with whether or not it could be considered a hand gun. I suppose it could be, or even would be.
But on that topic, the SS-211 could work in Ukraine to take out drones. It's much bulkier, but still relatively compact?
Honestly why not just use a revolver that shoots 410 shotgun shells already and make a shotshell/Birdshot to you're liking for drones. They do make some shotgun shells with little arrows/ darts in them I can't recall what they are called but I believe they would do fine with the proper wad behind them and a resin printer you could probably print the ammo.
perhaps some kind of net launcher? doesn't "kill" the drone, but it'll take them down and the ammo seems to be light.
Range ! If you see the videos of engagements (brutal) - if it doesnt prevent the charge to set off - you will still get hurt.
I wouldn’t be surprised if higher density shot like tungsten we use for turkeys ends up being pushed into service. I know folks who at 100 yards still achieve a good shot pattern
It might be better in an under barrell configuration. But if you're going under barrel then a masterkey might be better.
Very interesting tech, and I can certainly see why people think this might be a drone defense concept. It would need refinements for sure, if naught else then at least some sights and better grip angle, but a minimalistic anti-drone "derringer" certainly sounds appealing. Short barrels would probably limit the actual velocity of shot, and I am not sure if the caused damage would be enough to swerve off an FPV drone that is probably mere metres away and closing in fast. I am hopeful that the ingenuity-under-pressure of Ukrainians will prevail again though.