SidAlpha and Jim, as long time fans of you both I just wanted to say Leonard French as already put up some legal analysis of the amended complaint. To quote "the acts of a desperate man". It is a short video, and worth checking out
You got all of our support. In fact I am betting Robert now wears the shirt he got from Shark daily with pride and support as well :D. Or maybe all of this is just a result from his extra large testicle going out of control? Good luck buddy! And as always... Thank God for me. Whoops I mean you.
So ... he is trying to claim that Jim Sterling is in a legal relationship with Steam to the extent that Jim Sterling actually has some sort of control over Steam Greenlight?!? What are they smoking?
Clearly saying something in a game once proves that Jim Sterling has teamed up with Steam to destroy indie game developers! What part didn't you understand? /sarcasm
The reason James will not let go is because he is a scam artist. He makes money by scamming people. And he sees this is his big score. It's the only way of making money he has left.
Jim Sterling has done some voice over work in some games sold on steam. This doesn't mean he is a developer or is involved in the game development. He is paid to do a job or does it for free and he discloses when he does this especially if he covers the game in question.
You forget this is an argument by an idiot that _bought_ a Jim Sterling t-shirt through a third-party seller, and had it delivered to him, to claim that that meant Jim was "doing business" in his state.
not arguing in anyway just wondering - Why the hell would it matter that Jim was "doing business in his state" ? I've never heard something so ridiculous. How could it even be relevant? like lol "MY STATE" piss off Digital Homicide
Exactly, State Courts don't have jurisdiction outside of their state. So someone from Arizona can't just simply sue someone from California or New Jersey. But according to International Shoe Co. v. Washington, 326 U.S. 310, if a person has "minimal contacts" with a state, you can sue them as if they were a resident of that state. Owning a business and having part of that business in that state would probably count, being able to buy a t-shirt of the internet and get it shipped to your state... doesn't.
*Disclaimer: I haven't poured over all of the pages of the lawsuit, so my knowledge is most likely limited, I'm also not from the U.S., so my knowledge of U.S. civil law is most certainly limited and I might not always use the correct technical terms.* I'm about to be a lawyer in *Germany* (already have my master's degree and almost certainly passed the written part of the bar examn), so my knowledge of U.S. civil law is *limited*, however: This lawsuit *appears* to be *frivolous*, for essentially one major reason: "Jim Sterling" only accused Digital Homicide (and its "masterminds" and "subsidiaries") of *things that are true* (that they have subsidiaries) and things that he *has a right to have an opinion about* (that the games are low effort and "terrible"). *None of these things are diffamation or slander !* The fact that James Romine - appearently - completely misunderstood what the judge *actually* wanted him to amend regarding his lawsuit makes the whole thing laughable in my opinion. The judge wanted James Romine to basically "switch" the lawsuit from himself as the plaintiff to Digital Homicide as the plaintiff because he claimed that the damage was done to Digital Homicide *not* himself. He also wanted James Romine to get a lawyer to represent himself, but - like you said - no lawyer with half a brain would do so without a hefty retainer ! The points James Romine tried to make here do nothing but *confirm* that "Jim Sterling" did not, in fact, use slander or diffamation against Digital Homicide or the Romine Brothers. He basically said: "Jim Sterling accused me/us of rebranding, so here is proof that we actually rebranded." Yeah . . . that is the *opposite* of slander, as far as I understand the legal term regarding the U.S. justice system.
Ah, good to know, thanks. It kinda sounded the other way around in this video, so I got it mixed up. He got lucky, then, that the judge didn't just throw out his case immediately - probably because judges usually give more leeway to non-lawyers who represent themselves (at least from my court experience in Germany). And yeah, he clearly *is* an idiot, at least when it comes to legal procedure. That whole "Jim Sterling accused us of rebranding, here is proof that we actually rebranded" - argument shows why you should *always* get a lawyer to represent you, no matter the country or case ! Using circular logic, contradicting arguments, arguments that lead nowhere or actively *harm* your case are pitfalls that almost all non-lawyers (or people without any legal degree, at least) constantly fall into - even smart people and bad lawyers (on occasion).
Nr4747 I think there was one thing said that could be conveyed as slander. When Sterling accused DHS of, iirc, ripping a photo (possibly stealing? Been a while) it could have been false/non-opinion. However, Sterling quickly retracted his statement and admitted his wrong doing. So, the whole basis of DHS getting knocked off Steam effectively boils down to a single statement that was quickly and appropriately redacted. That is, imo, the only part of this suit that has any merit. Like you said, everything else is opinion.
I am still not convinced I actually saw the papers where Romine ADMITTED to starting up and using a second company under pseudonym to trick people into buying more of his crap. This kind of crap is too stupid to be real.
Romine says in the articles (page 25) that Jim became a "competitor" with other indie devs by becoming a part of Plague Road, as though Jim is seeking to "clear the way" of any devs on Greenlight, good or bad, to ensure his own game's success. Oh, and he thinks Jim's Patreon is a "subscription fee" rather than, in his case, what basically amounts to a monthly tip jar in terms of audience contribution.
Very true. Fees are mandatory. Patreon subscriptions are completely voluntary. Much the same as Romine fails to comprehend the difference between a TH-camr utilizing video footage of a subject vs his making use of purchased unity assets. Romine attempted to paint the 100 Steam users with the same brush, intimating that they were in direct competition with him due to the fact that they were active within the Gaming community. He basically is very much of the mentality of if you aren't with him, then you are against him. A very unhealthy mindset and one that more often than not is self-defeating.
Well, you gotta admit, the man is persistent. At this point, he might just want to go down fighting. Or he just got in too deep to give up now. Wants to go down in a blaze of glory. And what a blaze it will be. *Burn bright, douchebag, burn bright*.
probably made the amount 50 million so he'd settle for way less but Jim will win this is the most stupid suing I've ever seen. I'd actually pay to go to court and watch the trial or whatever play out. Jim would factually disprove EVERYTHING and keep his credibility as an honest reputable man. The Romines could Google themselves and see that EVERYONE hates them and knows they are lying shady scum. Hope thats all that needs to be said
This is going to go very badly for Mr. Romine, I think. I expect that on reviewing the amendment, the judge will not only dismiss with prejudice *immediately*, but further hit James Romine with either a Contempt of Court penalty, or start a Misuse of Proceedings for the Purpose of Harrassment case (not sure if that's the right term, nor if there's a law in AZ covering that or not) or both.
I have minor legal knowledge, however, I don't believe this filing can actually make the case continue. As it was stated on the order on the 13th "ORDER: IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED granting in part Defendant's Motion to Dismiss (Doc. 19), as detailed above; denying as moot Plaintiff's two Motions to Amend (Docs. 11, 33). Plaintiff may file an Amended Complaint that complies with this Order by February 10, 2017. Claims made on behalf of an entity must be filed by a licensed attorney. Failure to timely file an Amended Complaint will result in dismissal of this case without further notice. Signed by Judge John J Tuchi on 1/13/2017. (REK) " James Romine even still in this recent filing referred Micro Strategic Game Design as another entity, and as the judge stated, actions on behalf of an entity must be represented by an attorney which means James still hasn't complied with the order. All that would be required from this is either for the judge to view it or for Jim's legal team to file an additional amendment to amend/correct against the terms of the docket and the lawsuit will most likely be dismissed immediately as it would deem this docket filed on the 3rd Feb as moot which would also mean that the terms would be failed to have been complied to on the required date.
Pretty open question but if you're referring to if in the case Sterling's legal team filing an additional amendment and the case being closed, I don't believe Romine will be up for consideration if that were to occur because it means that Romine still failed to meet the Judges orders.
I think the Micro Strategic Designs bit is supposed to be there to say that instance was not a distinct corporate entity, but a persona of the plaintiff (as the sole proprietor) and try to carry over his case from DHS to himself by claiming that Jim lumped them together and thus attacks against DHS were attacks against MSD and therefore the Plaintiff. So he's trying to continue pro se by using this as a response to the judge's ruling. I don't know if the Judge will accept this as an amended complaint, since he's actually trying to justify his previous complaint instead of amending it and is therefore making the case far more complex and mired than it needs to be. I'm not a lawyer, though, so we'll see what happens.
I think it's worse than that. The Plaintiff is trying to shift the defamation claims back to an individual and away from an entity. This makes sense if no lawyer would pick up the case and the Plaintiff must continue Pro Se, since law requires lawsuits filed on behalf of an entity must come from a licensed attorney. It is obvious the judge considers the defamation claims to be towards DHS, not an individual. Otherwise the ruling wouldn't make any sense. So if the Plaintiff continues the complaint as an individual, any argument the judge deems to damage the entity goes out the window. That is, unless the Plaintiff can prove DHS is an alter ego (not likely).
Yes, THAT Podquisition will be a thing of beauty...unless he's just fed-up with the entire thing, or has legal bullshit still hanging over him regarding the Romines...Not Jim's style, though...hope he goes full Sam Jackson on their arses...
Well Jim knows that everyone is just waiting to hear from his own word what happened so he most likely will do a video about the whole trial and schenanigans which went on. Now hwo detailed it will be I cannot say but of course Jim can always run it through his lawyers to check if it could land him in trouble if he fears it.
saifis Chances are that entire episode will be titled Fuck Digital Homicide News. The episode to send DigiHom off with a farewell Fuck You. I too am counting the days until that episode airs. Course if he's going to keep suing Jim under every name he published games under, he's got another 15 plus lawsuits to have thrown out first.
I posted this video on NeoGaf and one member, who has some knowlege about the legal system, posted this: Nothing in the proposed amended complaint addresses the judges order w/r to entities (in this case Digital Homicide) having to be represented by an attorney. I dont see where this avoids being dismissed around 2/10 for failing to comply with the judges order. Furthermore, Romine admits (in section 14 and others) that there are several other companies that were created to use for future DH style business including some sock puppet like accounts that wouldn't be attached to the Romine name. I dont know if those companies were properly created with the relevant state agencies (to actually create a company). www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=229714729#post229714729
The fact, alone, that Romino attempted to avoid being identified _as_ those sock-puppet accounts tells us two things (keep in mind, I am not a lawyer): 1. These sock-puppet "sole proprietorships" are absolutely NOT alter-egos, and... 2. The connection between DHS and the sockpuppet companies is newsworthy and commenting on it is inherently protected speech.
All this seems to be is an attempt to extend the deadline that the previous set down by trying to stall the lawsuit until they can come up with anything to try and keep this going. From this document it is obvious that he is desperately trying to come up with any reason to avoid the fact that a judge has already ruled that they have no leg to stand on unless they can find a lawyer willing to take this case now but obviously haven't. They have 6 days left and are obvious panicking and are willing to try anything to keep this vendetta going.
Sid, these people are just plain losers, they put no effort into their games, coding, talents, or anything. Earlier they mention they were going back into the workforce, probably couldn't even land a decent job at Starbucks. Otherwise, as you and Jim said, it takes great effort to make a good game and even then the sales profit isn't guaranteed. Just look at how System Shock 2 was even though it won a lot of awards, but didn't make a profit (only 58,671 copies were sold by April 2000). I think the loser brothers just want to hold on to the lawsuit and use it as a scare tactic.
As far as I see it, even if this motion is accepted (which I really doubt) the suit as a whole will fail because defamation claims in the US are notoriously difficult to win even with a good attorney. Beyond even the regular difficulty, defamation requires a lie (or deliberate disregard for the truth) with the intent to cause harm but I don't recall Romine alleging any cases where Sterling actually lied or deliberately ignored the truth. Defamation never applies to cases where the person said the truth (or at most got things wrong by accident).
from what I understand about this case, in Arizona, if you make an untrue statement, and then issue a retraction or correction, you are still liable for the initial statement. part of what jams is arguing is that he purchased most of the assets he's accused of flipping, and that makes Jim liable, as in the original Jim sterling review he states that they were stolen.
By the way, didn't the Romaine brothers commit fraud by tricking people to buy games under a different trade name, and if also true, having multiple companies that may not be registered?
He also has a longer video (bit over 2 hours) going through the legal briefs, it is really some astounding legal/mental gymnastics by DHS. Take a look at both if you get the chance. Based on the state of things, DHS is legally screwed.
How does this lawsuit continue exactly? Digi Hom didn't follow the the Judge's instructions to get an attorney and file as Digital Homicide. This lawsuit will likely be dismissed.
There you have it. They admitted to creating what is essentially a false identity in order to do business on Steam. With this identity not being a recognized persona like with a T.V. or Movie celebrity, or even an Internet celebrity, he created an identity to do business which is similar to someone who catfish's for a persons personal information or an e-mail money laundering scheme. I think Jim's lawyers should be able to argue against this pretty easily.
I'm not sure he even effectively amended his claim, he basically said "but he treats digihom similarly to me as a person, and he totally profited from this as a competitor!" which is at best related to only half of what the judge told him to do, and tangentially at that (unless I'm missing something). Here's hoping the judge simply rules this as insufficient and sticks to his original orders timeline.
If Romine wins this, you can kiss games like GTA, Doom, Skyrim and FF7 goodbye. You can look forward to Batman: Arkham Knight and Aliens: Colonial Marines. Why put in the extra time, effort and money to develop a good product when Romine has shown that you can poop out an inferior product more quickly, easier and cheaper and be guaranteed to at least break even after suing anyone that badmouthed you?
Well, that's ALREADY happening, as long as Valve allows people to have "early access" for all eternity without ever releasing any final version. Why have a final version, when you can just hurl unfinished games under the guise of "working with the community"? xD DayZ for instance has been in that shit bag called early access for *years*.
CriTheCricket Actually, if he repeatedly files frivolous lawsuits, he can be deemed a vexatious litigant, which would severely restrict his ability to file additional lawsuits at all.
Thanks for the shout-out! This, unfortunately, seems to grant Romine a loophole, as he can now continue the case - obviously, this is exactly what he wants; he's clutching at straws, probably still looking for money in order to finance his quest for vendetta.
SUnk-cost fallacy. He HAS to get something out of this or else he might be forced to face reality. He would apparently do anything and everything to avoid that.
Since valve now makes marketplace items no longer sellable or buyable from publishers/devs kicked off of steam Digihom key selling or giveaways ain't making them cash from card sales anymore.
Back in July the Judge struck down the last attempt to link the Business thing and Arizona, for repeating previous points. So I'm impress he still insist, but now I think he his making his case worst by putting out a connection with IndieDevs, Jim's past business with them and Steam Itself and I don't think that will fly , mostly because is a NON-Physical presence for profit outlet. Also, it doesn't necessarily mean the case won't be dropped by the Judge on Feb.13th, since Romine still failed to enact on one of the Judge's keys orders - he needed a lawyer if he still was going to state claims Damages for DigiHom. Now, for some weird reason, Romine is stating claims as the multiple entities he was when the whole Identity Debacle happened. Which would still require him to HAVE a Lawyer. This is important because Federal Judges RARELY change their orders, specially when one sets a Deadline for a clear and specific reason. Romine is putting himself on the risk of been under contempt of court for this move, since the Judge stated already (AGREEING with the defense) Romine WAS NOT the correct entity to state claims and the Judge could see this as bothersome to the court. Of course, Jim's defense needs to respond asap and I think they'll remind the Judge to tell Romine of the order given two weeks ago. but to be Sure contact Leonard French the Copyright Attorney who is looking both at the Romine v Stanton and The Bold Guy v H3H3 lawsuits th-cam.com/video/SUahTUQ4WMw/w-d-xo.html
I'm no lawyer, but there's a major difference between doing voice over work and actually doing game development. If I could the difference, then any competent attorney and judge would definitely spot the difference.
If the Plaintiff is attempting to push the complaint back towards an individual rather than an entity, wouldn't that remove DHS as a party? If that's the case, doesn't that mean any complaints of defamation towards DHS (which is likely all of them based on the judge's order) are trivial? I could see a defamation case if it can be established the Defendant is a competitor with DHS (which is a paper thin argument). However, if the complaint is pushed back to the Plaintiff as an individual, then the competition argument is moot. If there was competition the Defendant doesn't compete with the Plaintiff as an individual, and as an entity.
I installed a minecraft mod yesterday. Thats like 6 million dollars of work that I am definately going to sue someone for. On top of that now minecraft crashes which is technically Assault. Anyone that plays minecraft is affiliated with Mojang, and will also be contacted by my lawyer..
If I had to guess I'd say he was cheating and counting open and closed curly brackets as their own lines e.g. void public method() { x++: } would be 4 lines rather than the 2 or less it could be counted for. His code must be ugly and inefficient. *shutter*
Which do you find (a) more likely, and (b) scarier: that he's including comments in the "25,000 lines", or that he's bashing out 25,000 lines of code with no comments at all?
I consider Jim Sterling a consumer advocate first and foremost, and a games journalist and reviewer second. His flagship series, The Jimquisition, is all about consumer advocacy and putting the interests of the consumer first - something quite distinct from his reviews.
So basically, what James Romine seems to be claiming is that since he's doing business under a new name, Jim Sterling can't connect him, his new named company and the new company's crappy games to the old named company and their crappy games. But yet he's not calling Micro Strategic Designs a new company at all. He's calling it a "complete rebrand". This kind of reminds me of how ValuJet, after the crash of Flight 592 and its aftermath, decided to buy a smaller airline for the purposes of using its name. ValuJet then became AirTran, and pulled the wool over the eyes of the public by making them think it was a different company.
I am learning a lot about what is going on. Like how you can create a new company within the same industry doing the same things and think that it is not okay to associate the new company with the old company when it is all the same people. Also Jim Sterling and Valve are business partners.
kinda unrelated but has anyone else noticed the second timer on slaughtering grounds counts down from 60 to zero each minute rather than counting down from 59 to 00, essentially making each minute 61 seconds long. how do you even do that?
Thank you for taking the time to give updates Jim can't give. I came here from Jim yesterday (sorry for the freak out we all caused you!) but sticking around cos you seem a very thoughtful and sensible reviewer. I really hope you do well. I also know this post is 2 weeks old, so you are far too fancy and YT millions rich to notice one comment these days ;) Also, hope you don't get bored of this joke too quickly.
They're commited; even when an idiot still repeatedly hits a wall, sometimes you gotta look at them and wonder if they think it's still worth while to throw themselves at that wall that physically hurts them. It's almost like seeing 2 people trying to make their life-raft made of paper-mache stay afloat. Every attempt so far has been for naught, and yet they keep flailing their arms to make it work (25000 lines of code coded within 300 hours of work is somehow a laughable achievement they think somehow matters in a legal document); you'd think they'd quietly continue to make games but, no, they stopped all production and sunk ostensibly their entire reputation and legal foothold in handling Jim's videos filled with the message of "don't buy their shovel-ware" with the retort of "he was super-mean about it..." "So he owes me a gajilion dollars to make me feel better."
I'm confused - The judge told James Romine to get a lawyer or have his suit dismissed. From the sounds of it, he was unable to get legal help. How was the suit not thrown out?
I'm hoping for the positive resolution of Jim's case too! Hopefully the drama ends very soon. Also, something quite incredible just happened -> www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-02-10-valve-is-removing-steam-greenlight-this-spring. Now, that's some pretty groundbreaking bit of news - at least if Valve really delivers. Some aspects of this new idea are still quite concerning, so we'll see how it pans out...
Very basically what the documents say is that James has enough companies that he can do this over and over again and continue to waste the courts time until they break down and give him what he wants.
I find it remarkable that Romine makes the leap from recognising business relationships between Sterling & Steam to calling that a "Partnership" - yet overlooks that he himself had a buiness relationship with Steam & doesn't make the equivalent leap. When one purchases the services of another buiness entity, one is not in partnership. One is a customer. It appears this guy's understanding of the economic theory is as bad as his understanding of Law & ethics & game design & customer service. I would find this whole thing hilarious if it not for the fact that Romine is essentially engaging in stalking via Vexatious Litigation (look it up, caution, I'm no lawyer) & wasting the time of Sterling. If Romine handed Sterling the means to sue him into oblivion, I don't think there would be too many that would think any less of Sterling were he to take that course of action.
According to my understanding of the information in this video. James Romine/Digital Homicide does have a case. The legal battle will come down to whether Jim Sterling can convince the court that he did his due diligence and informed his audience that his opinions were presented as opinions and allegations. Romine pointing out that Jim Sterling is technically in competition with him for being involved in development, will hurt Jim Sterling. The discretion of the judge will determine whether it matters or not. But a strict enough judge might say that Sterling does have a financial incentive to damage Romine. I hope that Jim Sterling wins. And James Romine is banished from game development for all time. But this won't be a quick and simple court case.
25.000 lines of code is ridiculous for a finished game. I worked on a mod for vermintide with some people. It adds a few new features, nothing too crazy really. But it still has 13.000 lines already.
Why doesn't he just give up? Romine is losing and still clings to his false hope that he'll win. So in order to get around the judges order concerning the the legal entity of DH he tries to claim on behalf of another of his companies. Like you Sid I do hope this fails as I hate to see a world where criticism of poor games can lead to lawsuits and the stifling of free speech. I do hope the judge just throws this case out and orders Romine to pay the legal fees of both Jim Sterling and the courts.
Well: I see the case as almost over. The judge asked for something specific and it was not provided. It is not the job of a judge to string together a case from various, legally unsound accusations.
When this lawsuit fails, and Jim emerges victorious, I cannot wait for the Jimquistion episode that puts the final nail in the coffin on these disgusting brothers.
You probably already know of this but you should check out Leonard French's channel, he's a copyright attorney who goes over the legal motions and gives a bit of clarification on some of the more obscure legal motions and terminology.
They don't seem to understand that for something to be legally defamation, it has to be a factually _false_ statement. A factually _true_ statement, as well as a _subjective opinion,_ cannot be defamation. It doesn't matter how much those statements may "hurt" somebody's business, livelihood or social status, it's not defamation if the statements are not outright _false._ For example saying "the people behind company X are the exact same people as the ones behind company Y" is not defamation if that's a factually accurate statement, even if saying so casts company X in a bad light. Likewise saying "company X sucks" is not defamation because it's a personal opinion. For something to be defamation, it has to be a factual claim, that's false. An example of actual defamation would be, for example, "company X has stolen money from its customers", if that statement is clearly false.
What I find myself wondering in all of this: doesn't James Romine have a family? I seem to recall him mentioning having kids in his phone call with Jim, at least. How are they faring in all of this, with all the time and money he's undoubtedly wasting in his insane pursuit of one man who called him out on his bullshit? And are they worried about his mental health in any way?
That was Robert Romine who said that and the one that Jim was talking to during that whole interview. In terms of James, I don't think it was mentioned anywhere that he does have any family at all. I mean at least according to the arizona central article about them where it only specified Robert's family, but not James.
James has three Arizona court divorce cases. At least that's how it read on some Digital Homicide thread/s/. His ex-wives really needs those millions I guess.
I find it insane how Mr. Romine can at once be so utterly incompetent at this lawsuit, and yet still find out and scrounge together every single loophole he can find.
I think the worse precedent set by them winning (which sincerely think/hope they won't) would be that a company has the right to rebrand themselves to, from a legal standpoint, disassociate themselves completely from their past actions. Any criticism of them being or doing things as their past identity would be slanderous or inaccurate, as they are not legally that entity any longer.
Dradeeus I think the worst precedent would be "opinions aren't opinions and you can't have unfavourable opinions when reviewing something". This whole suit boils down to "Cana reviewer/critic have a negative opinion?" And,imo, the dissociation/rebrand issue you mention pales in comparison to the overarching issue of opinions and if they're allowed. Who needs to rebrand if no one can say anything bad in the first place?
I thought the dude once said "i'm going back to the work force". Turns out its another BS again And now the students majoring law or those aspiring to be a lawyer, you have an example of a ridiculous lawsuit and can probably use it as a homework material.
To be quite honest here, James Romine will never give up. It has come to a point where Mister Sterling would have to be destroyed financially before James Romine give's up the chase. BUT, I also see that this sort of person never giving up until one day we see in the newspapers, and/or TH-cam that James Romine has either been admitted into an asylum, or he has been put up on charges for hiring a hitman. Either way, no matter if Mister Sterling wins, James Romine will never let go. Seriously, I think he is slowly, if not all ready gone insane.
Are they actually claiming that Jim felt so threatened by the Digital Homicide's games that they think he reviewed their games badly to make them loose money so people would buy games he did voice work in instead He's crazy
I feel sorry for the judge, he probably just wants this to be over. It's plain he is grasping at straws at this point , i hope the judge demands he pays all legal fees for Jim.
Digital Homicide should be focusing all resources and efforts in making 1 solid game than pursuing this pathetic lawsuit. Both Romines are completely delusional.
Exactly! The Romines are so blind and brain damaged that they have lost all sense of humanity. I pity their children and grandchildren who will be humiliated by this atrocity in years to come.
to play Devil's Advocate - as far as the paperwork goes this is NOT the Romine brothers or even Digital Homicide - this is just ONE of the brothers with an apparent chip on his shoulder. (if memory serves, even the other brother has walked away from this to an extent). i'm not trying to justify ALL of their actions, but part of me can sort of empathize with the filing somewhat - not a full point, but about 1/1000000000000 if a full point. These guys have had their families threatened and things sent to their families homes, and possibly even voicemail left on private phone lines. there were lines crossed here on BOTH sides. IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY THEIR BEHAVIOR TOWARDS STEAM USERS OR THEIR COMMENTS ON STEAM - but by the same token, I do feel that those who made such threats, phone calls, and sent packages to their HOMES, (not the business), are equally, if not more responsible for this fiasco than this guy.
Good point. However, these threats wouldn't have happened if the Romines had been more responsible from the get-go and not be too critical about everything. In a way, I don't really blame the critics because with the way Romines have been acting, anyone would want to take action although harassment is not okay so some critics did go overboard. At least the likes of Hello Games and Scott Cawthon have kept their cool despite aggressive responses from the Internet. That's professionalism. Digital Homicide are not professional in any way.
Hey Sid! You got your wish for a lawyer to look at this. Leonard French did a short video analysis of the amended complaint a couple hours ago, it is both informative and hilarious.
"IF" this ends on Friday (and let's prey it ends on Friday) you, LordCrocosquirrel and Mellow should have Jim and Leonard on the livestream for a full interview post lawsuit;)
I'm sure Jim will have his own plans for when this is all over. Plus while I'm sure he appreciates the visibility being maintained on Romine and all of the well-wishes, our channels really aren't large enough to be a draw for his. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a discussion or interview afterward, but I don't really see it being in the realm of possibility.
I know he appreciates your work, he comments on a lot of your videos. XD You do good work Sid! And Id love to see a livestream with the three of you. Actually, the three of you and Romine. His "discussion" with Jim nearly killed me I laughed so hard.
The problem is that Romine thinks that Jim Sterling is the cause of his problems. Of course, it's the fact that his games are crap is what causes his problems.
I highly doubt that this case will continue due to the judge's order of requiring James to have a lawyer to do anything else. Around next week, Jim's lawyers will respond to this and/or the judge will immediately deny his amended complaint where at the same time, angering him for not following his orders. Then again, who knows what might happen.
Unfortunately what this does is provides a loophole for Romine via his assertion that Micro Strategic Designs was a sole proprietership, which would invalidate the order requiring an attorney and allow Romine to continue pro se for MSD.
Not necessarily - if they respond, the defense will remind the judge of a key point of his order which he agree with the defense, as Romine is still representing a 3rd Party (now more than one) without a licensed legal counsel. Because there was a date set in the last order, this matter can be looked at on the question if Romine is the legal entity to state claims of nameless 3rd parties, which the Judge agree in his partial dismissal with the defense that he was not and had to get the lawyer. It doesn't delay deadline, but have to look at this now in order whether to postpone the deadline. The Judge will likely deemed this moot if he doesn't change his order. All that Romine did that is new here was add the mess of the 2nd lawsuit, blames Jim for the banishment from Steam and adds the multiple entities DigiHom was, plus Jim past voice work in other games. Everything else is repeated points from past motions and complaints that the judge already discarded.
James Romain is mad to accuse Jim and Steam as partners. The personal grudge is too much and he's still gonna get his ass handed by Jim's lawyers. This where a Tomberry would come in handy for Jim Sterling to use against the Romains.
most likely this will be trown out as well . there is not really enough evidence about this ' statement ' . i doubt that this will be re-opened . also the judge has yet to decide on the matter (Quoting the Dismissal order; pg. 3) "Several of Defendant’s arguments in the Motion to Dismiss may have merit. However, the Court’s present analysis begins and ends with Defendant’s first argument, that, according to his own allegations in the Complaint, it is insufficiently clear that Plaintiff is the proper party to bring his claims." if he finds the amended complaint acceptable, the MTD has yet to be ruled on in its entirety. but i highly doubt that he will find this acceptable.
Wasn't the whole point of this amended complaint basically to change the plaintiff to either Digital Homicide the business OR James Romine the person? And if it's the business then he HAS to get a lawyer or else be dismissed. That's what I got out of the judge's order anyway, but I'm no lawyer :P
Pretty much. What he's attempting to do instead is shift the corporate name to one of the sock puppets so he can try and claim sole proprietorship and not be forced to hire an attorney (that he probably can't afford). I'm confident it will amount to nothing except potentially drawing out the lawsuit even further.
Ah I thought it was just him trying to level more accusations. Certainly can't deny they have gone through quite a lot of "rebranding" with the numerous alternate names they used in just a few years. Guess we'll see if this new gambit pays off, though looking back over the documentation their assertions are flimsy at best and only further undermines their case at worst. We can only hope that the judge deems this new amendment insufficient and dismisses the lawsuit.
"The lawsuit that never ends" Pfft I'm pretty sure most lawsuits take longer, Romine didn't get a lawyer, his amended complaint will get thrown out the window and the case will be closed. Romine has no fucking clue what he is doing and usually both sides have lawyers.
This doesn't change the fact that he needs a Lawyer to represent his business! Why waste more of other people's time and money? Unless he thinks he will have a Lawyer by the 10th?
I wonder what would have happened to Digital Homicide if Jim Sterling hadn't done a video on the Slaughtering Grounds, seeing as the Slaughtering Grounds was their second game and they were already operating under a new "trade name". Hell Jim Sterling said that no one would have paid much attention to DH if they hadn't flipped out over his Slaughtering Grounds video and ended up putting themselves under a microscope.
He was correct. It would have simply been yet another low-brow title that Jim pissed on that people had a giggle over and then moved on. Their "Review the Reviewer" stirred the pot and then their false DMCA take down of the video ignitited the ire of not only Jim Sterling, but other TH-camrs as well. Their subsequent actions and reskins of asset flips doomed their reputation. Every action James Romine has taken has seem that of a child lashing out and crying foul when they don't get their own way.
Would be amusing is the statute of limitations kicked in on most of James Romine's "evidence" when this finally goes to trail, because most of this evidence is what already over 2 years old (I'm not a legal person, so I don't know how the statute of limitations works).
Statute of limitation usualy only applies to when a case is brought to court not to evidence presented in the case. It's based on the time the incident happened and how long you can wait before bringing a complaint to court. It doesn't have anything to do with dismissing evidence. Since this case has already been brought to court, it wouldn't apply here.
I'm not a lawyer, but even on a viewer level, this sounds a lot like dribble. Furthermore, it sounds like he still hasn't gotten legal representation, and without such, this may be seen by the judge as nothing that changes the lawsuit and may be tossed out
Wait, wait. From what I heard, the judge ordered James to get a lawyer, or to take this this case under his name. What the fuck does that rambling bullshit about their sock puppet have to do with compiling with that order?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the "competitor" part about Jim voice acting in some game? I also may be wrong with this but isn't voice actor paid for their talent once after job is done, not with profits as business associate? If so, it directly doesn't affect voice actor if game sells nothing so JimFuckingSterlingSon doesn't have any reason to affect thoses sales numbers, at least not as rival for Dig Hom
reminds me of dudes who figure out their career is sham but litigation is their fallback job . would be funny if it wasn't a complete waste of society resources and other people time
Romine doesn't want to have to earn a honest living, so he's never gonna let this go. And if this recent presidential election is any indication, I'd be a fool to not be a bit worried.
Thank you for your kind words. It is a tiresome and disgusting situation, but I remain confident.
As do all of your fans, Jim. Myself included.
Best of luck Jim, they're REALLY reaching at this point.
SidAlpha and Jim, as long time fans of you both I just wanted to say Leonard French as already put up some legal analysis of the amended complaint. To quote "the acts of a desperate man". It is a short video, and worth checking out
Cannot wait for the Jimquistion or The Jimquisitions plural.
You got all of our support. In fact I am betting Robert now wears the shirt he got from Shark daily with pride and support as well :D. Or maybe all of this is just a result from his extra large testicle going out of control? Good luck buddy! And as always... Thank God for me. Whoops I mean you.
So ... he is trying to claim that Jim Sterling is in a legal relationship with Steam to the extent that Jim Sterling actually has some sort of control over Steam Greenlight?!?
What are they smoking?
He's trying to establish jurisdiction (AKA "why the hell did you file this in Arizona?").
If he was in bed with Steam and Greenlight it would be in a far better shape lol.
Clearly saying something in a game once proves that Jim Sterling has teamed up with Steam to destroy indie game developers! What part didn't you understand? /sarcasm
The reason James will not let go is because he is a scam artist. He makes money by scamming people. And he sees this is his big score. It's the only way of making money he has left.
Jim Sterling has done some voice over work in some games sold on steam. This doesn't mean he is a developer or is involved in the game development. He is paid to do a job or does it for free and he discloses when he does this especially if he covers the game in question.
You forget this is an argument by an idiot that _bought_ a Jim Sterling t-shirt through a third-party seller, and had it delivered to him, to claim that that meant Jim was "doing business" in his state.
not arguing in anyway just wondering - Why the hell would it matter that Jim was "doing business in his state" ? I've never heard something so ridiculous. How could it even be relevant? like lol "MY STATE" piss off Digital Homicide
it is actually relevant to Arizona law. Romine couldn't sue otherwise.
Exactly, State Courts don't have jurisdiction outside of their state. So someone from Arizona can't just simply sue someone from California or New Jersey. But according to International Shoe Co. v. Washington, 326 U.S. 310, if a person has "minimal contacts" with a state, you can sue them as if they were a resident of that state.
Owning a business and having part of that business in that state would probably count, being able to buy a t-shirt of the internet and get it shipped to your state... doesn't.
*Disclaimer: I haven't poured over all of the pages of the lawsuit, so my knowledge is most likely limited, I'm also not from the U.S., so my knowledge of U.S. civil law is most certainly limited and I might not always use the correct technical terms.*
I'm about to be a lawyer in *Germany* (already have my master's degree and almost certainly passed the written part of the bar examn), so my knowledge of U.S. civil law is *limited*, however:
This lawsuit *appears* to be *frivolous*, for essentially one major reason:
"Jim Sterling" only accused Digital Homicide (and its "masterminds" and "subsidiaries") of *things that are true* (that they have subsidiaries) and things that he *has a right to have an opinion about* (that the games are low effort and "terrible").
*None of these things are diffamation or slander !*
The fact that James Romine - appearently - completely misunderstood what the judge *actually* wanted him to amend regarding his lawsuit makes the whole thing laughable in my opinion.
The judge wanted James Romine to basically "switch" the lawsuit from himself as the plaintiff to Digital Homicide as the plaintiff because he claimed that the damage was done to Digital Homicide *not* himself.
He also wanted James Romine to get a lawyer to represent himself, but - like you said - no lawyer with half a brain would do so without a hefty retainer !
The points James Romine tried to make here do nothing but *confirm* that "Jim Sterling" did not, in fact, use slander or diffamation against Digital Homicide or the Romine Brothers.
He basically said: "Jim Sterling accused me/us of rebranding, so here is proof that we actually rebranded."
Yeah . . . that is the *opposite* of slander, as far as I understand the legal term regarding the U.S. justice system.
You've got it more or less in the bag. The whole thing is frankly, ridiculous.
Ah, good to know, thanks. It kinda sounded the other way around in this video, so I got it mixed up.
He got lucky, then, that the judge didn't just throw out his case immediately - probably because judges usually give more leeway to non-lawyers who represent themselves (at least from my court experience in Germany).
And yeah, he clearly *is* an idiot, at least when it comes to legal procedure. That whole "Jim Sterling accused us of rebranding, here is proof that we actually rebranded" - argument shows why you should *always* get a lawyer to represent you, no matter the country or case !
Using circular logic, contradicting arguments, arguments that lead nowhere or actively *harm* your case are pitfalls that almost all non-lawyers (or people without any legal degree, at least) constantly fall into - even smart people and bad lawyers (on occasion).
Thanks, I hope I will.
Nr4747 I think there was one thing said that could be conveyed as slander. When Sterling accused DHS of, iirc, ripping a photo (possibly stealing? Been a while) it could have been false/non-opinion. However, Sterling quickly retracted his statement and admitted his wrong doing. So, the whole basis of DHS getting knocked off Steam effectively boils down to a single statement that was quickly and appropriately redacted. That is, imo, the only part of this suit that has any merit. Like you said, everything else is opinion.
VP Perga That may be true, but he did retract his statement, meaning it can't be used as evidence anymore. I think.
its like an incompetent con artist suing the investigators and journalists who covered his crimes... the shear audacity of it all ...
It's not like that. It IS that.
I am still not convinced I actually saw the papers where Romine ADMITTED to starting up and using a second company under pseudonym to trick people into buying more of his crap. This kind of crap is too stupid to be real.
Haan22 I don't think that's even legal is it?
I'm unsure of the legal side, especially in Arizona, but it seems close to admitting to fraud. It certainly is unethical.
Haan22 true. People have a right to know who they are buying products from.
he still doesn't have money for the lawsuit. and no lawyer is going to touch this case. it's scammer against the scammed
Romine says in the articles (page 25) that Jim became a "competitor" with other indie devs by becoming a part of Plague Road, as though Jim is seeking to "clear the way" of any devs on Greenlight, good or bad, to ensure his own game's success.
Oh, and he thinks Jim's Patreon is a "subscription fee" rather than, in his case, what basically amounts to a monthly tip jar in terms of audience contribution.
Very true. Fees are mandatory. Patreon subscriptions are completely voluntary. Much the same as Romine fails to comprehend the difference between a TH-camr utilizing video footage of a subject vs his making use of purchased unity assets.
Romine attempted to paint the 100 Steam users with the same brush, intimating that they were in direct competition with him due to the fact that they were active within the Gaming community. He basically is very much of the mentality of if you aren't with him, then you are against him. A very unhealthy mindset and one that more often than not is self-defeating.
I love how someone forgot to tell DH that a large amount of code is not actually a good thing.
Wow. He won't let this go. Does he really think he's going to win or figure that Jim will settle??
Well, you gotta admit, the man is persistent. At this point, he might just want to go down fighting. Or he just got in too deep to give up now. Wants to go down in a blaze of glory. And what a blaze it will be. *Burn bright, douchebag, burn bright*.
probably made the amount 50 million so he'd settle for way less but Jim will win this is the most stupid suing I've ever seen. I'd actually pay to go to court and watch the trial or whatever play out. Jim would factually disprove EVERYTHING and keep his credibility as an honest reputable man.
The Romines could Google themselves and see that EVERYONE hates them and knows they are lying shady scum. Hope thats all that needs to be said
This is going to go very badly for Mr. Romine, I think. I expect that on reviewing the amendment, the judge will not only dismiss with prejudice *immediately*, but further hit James Romine with either a Contempt of Court penalty, or start a Misuse of Proceedings for the Purpose of Harrassment case (not sure if that's the right term, nor if there's a law in AZ covering that or not) or both.
Thank you for covering this and keeping people informed.
He's insane.
Lee McDonald Correction: He's insane, and an idiot
pustulio81 Duly noted.
I have minor legal knowledge, however, I don't believe this filing can actually make the case continue. As it was stated on the order on the 13th "ORDER: IT IS THEREFORE ORDERED granting in part Defendant's Motion to Dismiss (Doc. 19), as detailed above; denying as moot Plaintiff's two Motions to Amend (Docs. 11, 33). Plaintiff may file an Amended Complaint that complies with this Order by February 10, 2017. Claims made on behalf of an entity must be filed by a licensed attorney. Failure to timely file an Amended Complaint will result in dismissal of this case without further notice. Signed by Judge John J Tuchi on 1/13/2017. (REK) " James Romine even still in this recent filing referred Micro Strategic Game Design as another entity, and as the judge stated, actions on behalf of an entity must be represented by an attorney which means James still hasn't complied with the order. All that would be required from this is either for the judge to view it or for Jim's legal team to file an additional amendment to amend/correct against the terms of the docket and the lawsuit will most likely be dismissed immediately as it would deem this docket filed on the 3rd Feb as moot which would also mean that the terms would be failed to have been complied to on the required date.
Question - Since he is Compel by the Judge's order, right? Is Romine under contempt then?
Pretty open question but if you're referring to if in the case Sterling's legal team filing an additional amendment and the case being closed, I don't believe Romine will be up for consideration if that were to occur because it means that Romine still failed to meet the Judges orders.
Again, I also want to point out I have limited legal knowledge, I could still be wrong, this is what I'm reading.
I think the Micro Strategic Designs bit is supposed to be there to say that instance was not a distinct corporate entity, but a persona of the plaintiff (as the sole proprietor) and try to carry over his case from DHS to himself by claiming that Jim lumped them together and thus attacks against DHS were attacks against MSD and therefore the Plaintiff. So he's trying to continue pro se by using this as a response to the judge's ruling. I don't know if the Judge will accept this as an amended complaint, since he's actually trying to justify his previous complaint instead of amending it and is therefore making the case far more complex and mired than it needs to be. I'm not a lawyer, though, so we'll see what happens.
I think it's worse than that. The Plaintiff is trying to shift the defamation claims back to an individual and away from an entity. This makes sense if no lawyer would pick up the case and the Plaintiff must continue Pro Se, since law requires lawsuits filed on behalf of an entity must come from a licensed attorney.
It is obvious the judge considers the defamation claims to be towards DHS, not an individual. Otherwise the ruling wouldn't make any sense. So if the Plaintiff continues the complaint as an individual, any argument the judge deems to damage the entity goes out the window. That is, unless the Plaintiff can prove DHS is an alter ego (not likely).
Didn't the Judge also say that the lawsuit had to be amended by a licensed lawyer? Last time I checked James isn't a licensed lawyer.
Who knows what he thinks he is.
Leandro Pontes A developer? A lawyer?... A PR Consultant?
I await the Jimquestion Jim will do when this all ends. And the Fuckonami news he'll casually stick on the end of it.
Yes, THAT Podquisition will be a thing of beauty...unless he's just fed-up with the entire thing, or has legal bullshit still hanging over him regarding the Romines...Not Jim's style, though...hope he goes full Sam Jackson on their arses...
It doesn't have to be inflammatory or demeaning, I am genuinely curious as to how it is on Jim's side about the whole thing.
Well Jim knows that everyone is just waiting to hear from his own word what happened so he most likely will do a video about the whole trial and schenanigans which went on. Now hwo detailed it will be I cannot say but of course Jim can always run it through his lawyers to check if it could land him in trouble if he fears it.
saifis Chances are that entire episode will be titled Fuck Digital Homicide News.
The episode to send DigiHom off with a farewell Fuck You.
I too am counting the days until that episode airs.
Course if he's going to keep suing Jim under every name he published games under, he's got another 15 plus lawsuits to have thrown out first.
It won't just be the Steam Meltdown Story, it won't just be the steam meltdown saga...
It'll be the steam meltdown legend.
I posted this video on NeoGaf and one member, who has some knowlege about the legal system, posted this:
Nothing in the proposed amended complaint addresses the judges order w/r to entities (in this case Digital Homicide) having to be represented by an attorney. I dont see where this avoids being dismissed around 2/10 for failing to comply with the judges order.
Furthermore, Romine admits (in section 14 and others) that there are several other companies that were created to use for future DH style business including some sock puppet like accounts that wouldn't be attached to the Romine name. I dont know if those companies were properly created with the relevant state agencies (to actually create a company).
www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=229714729#post229714729
The fact, alone, that Romino attempted to avoid being identified _as_ those sock-puppet accounts tells us two things (keep in mind, I am not a lawyer):
1. These sock-puppet "sole proprietorships" are absolutely NOT alter-egos, and...
2. The connection between DHS and the sockpuppet companies is newsworthy and commenting on it is inherently protected speech.
All this seems to be is an attempt to extend the deadline that the previous set down by trying to stall the lawsuit until they can come up with anything to try and keep this going. From this document it is obvious that he is desperately trying to come up with any reason to avoid the fact that a judge has already ruled that they have no leg to stand on unless they can find a lawyer willing to take this case now but obviously haven't.
They have 6 days left and are obvious panicking and are willing to try anything to keep this vendetta going.
Derpital Herpicide really are the gift that keeps on giving, aren't they?
(Or the sicophant that keeps suing?)
I just realized that even the timer is screwed up in The Slaughtering Grounds. 61 seconds in a minute?!
Indeed, they can't even code a timer properly. This tells how these "devs" are this "good".
Truly masters of game development. Groundbreaking stuff here.
Sid, these people are just plain losers, they put no effort into their games, coding, talents, or anything. Earlier they mention they were going back into the workforce, probably couldn't even land a decent job at Starbucks. Otherwise, as you and Jim said, it takes great effort to make a good game and even then the sales profit isn't guaranteed. Just look at how System Shock 2 was even though it won a lot of awards, but didn't make a profit (only 58,671 copies were sold by April 2000). I think the loser brothers just want to hold on to the lawsuit and use it as a scare tactic.
As far as I see it, even if this motion is accepted (which I really doubt) the suit as a whole will fail because defamation claims in the US are notoriously difficult to win even with a good attorney. Beyond even the regular difficulty, defamation requires a lie (or deliberate disregard for the truth) with the intent to cause harm but I don't recall Romine alleging any cases where Sterling actually lied or deliberately ignored the truth. Defamation never applies to cases where the person said the truth (or at most got things wrong by accident).
from what I understand about this case, in Arizona, if you make an untrue statement, and then issue a retraction or correction, you are still liable for the initial statement. part of what jams is arguing is that he purchased most of the assets he's accused of flipping, and that makes Jim liable, as in the original Jim sterling review he states that they were stolen.
This changes nothing. The complaint is still referring to them as a business with both brothers involved.
By the way, didn't the Romaine brothers commit fraud by tricking people to buy games under a different trade name, and if also true, having multiple companies that may not be registered?
This case continues to grow strangely more and more intriguing with each update.
Well done, human. You have earned yourself another subscriber.
Thank you!
Digital Homicide - The trolls of Game Development!
Leonard French is covering this and he is a lawyer and has a youtube video of it
Can you provide a link?
I think I started watching that one but hadn't finished it.
He also has a longer video (bit over 2 hours) going through the legal briefs, it is really some astounding legal/mental gymnastics by DHS. Take a look at both if you get the chance. Based on the state of things, DHS is legally screwed.
How does this lawsuit continue exactly? Digi Hom didn't follow the the Judge's instructions to get an attorney and file as Digital Homicide. This lawsuit will likely be dismissed.
They have till the 10th to comply.
Brian Jensen
2 MORE DAYS TIL THE STRUGGLE IS OVER.
Tony Davis yeah I got the feeling the judge isn't going to accept this bullshit.
There you have it. They admitted to creating what is essentially a false identity in order to do business on Steam. With this identity not being a recognized persona like with a T.V. or Movie celebrity, or even an Internet celebrity, he created an identity to do business which is similar to someone who catfish's for a persons personal information or an e-mail money laundering scheme. I think Jim's lawyers should be able to argue against this pretty easily.
I'm not sure he even effectively amended his claim, he basically said "but he treats digihom similarly to me as a person, and he totally profited from this as a competitor!" which is at best related to only half of what the judge told him to do, and tangentially at that (unless I'm missing something). Here's hoping the judge simply rules this as insufficient and sticks to his original orders timeline.
If Romine wins this, you can kiss games like GTA, Doom, Skyrim and FF7 goodbye. You can look forward to Batman: Arkham Knight and Aliens: Colonial Marines.
Why put in the extra time, effort and money to develop a good product when Romine has shown that you can poop out an inferior product more quickly, easier and cheaper and be guaranteed to at least break even after suing anyone that badmouthed you?
Well, that's ALREADY happening, as long as Valve allows people to have "early access" for all eternity without ever releasing any final version. Why have a final version, when you can just hurl unfinished games under the guise of "working with the community"? xD DayZ for instance has been in that shit bag called early access for *years*.
If steam can eventually have enough of the Romines, then I think that a federal judge can too.
CriTheCricket
Actually, if he repeatedly files frivolous lawsuits, he can be deemed a vexatious litigant, which would severely restrict his ability to file additional lawsuits at all.
CriTheCricket I think romine is pulling everything in the book to just drag this along just to piss sterling off.
this will be over by the 10th. i cant see the judge accepting that.
Thanks for the shout-out! This, unfortunately, seems to grant Romine a loophole, as he can now continue the case - obviously, this is exactly what he wants; he's clutching at straws, probably still looking for money in order to finance his quest for vendetta.
SUnk-cost fallacy. He HAS to get something out of this or else he might be forced to face reality. He would apparently do anything and everything to avoid that.
Who the hell writes 25000 lines of code in 300 hours (5 weeks of work?) and thinks this is enough! I don't even..... FFS FTS*goes to bed*
Just when I think its finally gonna be over this month.*sigh*Some people never learn.
Since valve now makes marketplace items no longer sellable or buyable from publishers/devs kicked off of steam Digihom key selling or giveaways ain't making them cash from card sales anymore.
Back in July the Judge struck down the last attempt to link the Business thing and Arizona, for repeating previous points. So I'm impress he still insist, but now I think he his making his case worst by putting out a connection with IndieDevs, Jim's past business with them and Steam Itself and I don't think that will fly , mostly because is a NON-Physical presence for profit outlet.
Also, it doesn't necessarily mean the case won't be dropped by the Judge on Feb.13th, since Romine still failed to enact on one of the Judge's keys orders - he needed a lawyer if he still was going to state claims Damages for DigiHom. Now, for some weird reason, Romine is stating claims as the multiple entities he was when the whole Identity Debacle happened. Which would still require him to HAVE a Lawyer. This is important because Federal Judges RARELY change their orders, specially when one sets a Deadline for a clear and specific reason. Romine is putting himself on the risk of been under contempt of court for this move, since the Judge stated already (AGREEING with the defense) Romine WAS NOT the correct entity to state claims and the Judge could see this as bothersome to the court.
Of course, Jim's defense needs to respond asap and I think they'll remind the Judge to tell Romine of the order given two weeks ago. but to be Sure contact Leonard French the Copyright Attorney who is looking both at the Romine v Stanton and The Bold Guy v H3H3 lawsuits th-cam.com/video/SUahTUQ4WMw/w-d-xo.html
So in the amended lawsuit he is actually admitting to committing fraud by using a false name.
I had a sinking feeling that this wouldn't be over that easily...
I'm no lawyer, but there's a major difference between doing voice over work and actually doing game development. If I could the difference, then any competent attorney and judge would definitely spot the difference.
If the Plaintiff is attempting to push the complaint back towards an individual rather than an entity, wouldn't that remove DHS as a party? If that's the case, doesn't that mean any complaints of defamation towards DHS (which is likely all of them based on the judge's order) are trivial?
I could see a defamation case if it can be established the Defendant is a competitor with DHS (which is a paper thin argument). However, if the complaint is pushed back to the Plaintiff as an individual, then the competition argument is moot. If there was competition the Defendant doesn't compete with the Plaintiff as an individual, and as an entity.
25000 lines of code for one of those crappy games? How much of that is asset code? and if not then that some really bad programming...
20,000 of those lines are the real gun sounds.
I installed a minecraft mod yesterday. Thats like 6 million dollars of work that I am definately going to sue someone for. On top of that now minecraft crashes which is technically Assault. Anyone that plays minecraft is affiliated with Mojang, and will also be contacted by my lawyer..
i programmed a game in unreal engine, i do all from scratch, menus, logic, AI, etc... i do using just 8000 lines entirely made by me...
If I had to guess I'd say he was cheating and counting open and closed curly brackets as their own lines e.g.
void public method()
{
x++:
}
would be 4 lines rather than the 2 or less it could be counted for. His code must be ugly and inefficient. *shutter*
Which do you find (a) more likely, and (b) scarier: that he's including comments in the "25,000 lines", or that he's bashing out 25,000 lines of code with no comments at all?
I consider Jim Sterling a consumer advocate first and foremost, and a games journalist and reviewer second. His flagship series, The Jimquisition, is all about consumer advocacy and putting the interests of the consumer first - something quite distinct from his reviews.
So basically, what James Romine seems to be claiming is that since he's doing business under a new name, Jim Sterling can't connect him, his new named company and the new company's crappy games to the old named company and their crappy games. But yet he's not calling Micro Strategic Designs a new company at all. He's calling it a "complete rebrand". This kind of reminds me of how ValuJet, after the crash of Flight 592 and its aftermath, decided to buy a smaller airline for the purposes of using its name. ValuJet then became AirTran, and pulled the wool over the eyes of the public by making them think it was a different company.
As a Developer, lines of code is quite interesting. For example The Witcher 3 contained 1,135,617 lines of code and counting :)
I am learning a lot about what is going on. Like how you can create a new company within the same industry doing the same things and think that it is not okay to associate the new company with the old company when it is all the same people. Also Jim Sterling and Valve are business partners.
kinda unrelated but has anyone else noticed the second timer on slaughtering grounds counts down from 60 to zero each minute rather than counting down from 59 to 00, essentially making each minute 61 seconds long. how do you even do that?
Robot Raptor it gets worse. 00 takes 1 second to move on to the next minute so 62
Thank you for taking the time to give updates Jim can't give. I came here from Jim yesterday (sorry for the freak out we all caused you!) but sticking around cos you seem a very thoughtful and sensible reviewer. I really hope you do well.
I also know this post is 2 weeks old, so you are far too fancy and YT millions rich to notice one comment these days ;)
Also, hope you don't get bored of this joke too quickly.
Holy Shite... this is just believable.
Oh yeah. They just won't give up!
Yup this is a very very deep hole. Why do they keep digging?
they think gold is at the bottom thats why
They're commited; even when an idiot still repeatedly hits a wall, sometimes you gotta look at them and wonder if they think it's still worth while to throw themselves at that wall that physically hurts them. It's almost like seeing 2 people trying to make their life-raft made of paper-mache stay afloat.
Every attempt so far has been for naught, and yet they keep flailing their arms to make it work (25000 lines of code coded within 300 hours of work is somehow a laughable achievement they think somehow matters in a legal document); you'd think they'd quietly continue to make games but, no, they stopped all production and sunk ostensibly their entire reputation and legal foothold in handling Jim's videos filled with the message of "don't buy their shovel-ware" with the retort of "he was super-mean about it..." "So he owes me a gajilion dollars to make me feel better."
I'm confused - The judge told James Romine to get a lawyer or have his suit dismissed. From the sounds of it, he was unable to get legal help. How was the suit not thrown out?
Grasping at straws, though still, oh boy.
Today is February 10th so let us hope that the judge throws out the case today :)
I keep refreshing my browser.
I'm hoping for the positive resolution of Jim's case too! Hopefully the drama ends very soon.
Also, something quite incredible just happened -> www.eurogamer.net/articles/2017-02-10-valve-is-removing-steam-greenlight-this-spring. Now, that's some pretty groundbreaking bit of news - at least if Valve really delivers. Some aspects of this new idea are still quite concerning, so we'll see how it pans out...
Oh, EXTREMELY concerning. Corporations are idiots.
So what happened?
it looks as if we have to wait until Monday before we know anything about the case
Very basically what the documents say is that James has enough companies that he can do this over and over again and continue to waste the courts time until they break down and give him what he wants.
If only he put this much effort on making good games instead of wasting the court's time.
I find it remarkable that Romine makes the leap from recognising business relationships between Sterling & Steam to calling that a "Partnership" - yet overlooks that he himself had a buiness relationship with Steam & doesn't make the equivalent leap.
When one purchases the services of another buiness entity, one is not in partnership. One is a customer. It appears this guy's understanding of the economic theory is as bad as his understanding of Law & ethics & game design & customer service.
I would find this whole thing hilarious if it not for the fact that Romine is essentially engaging in stalking via Vexatious Litigation (look it up, caution, I'm no lawyer) & wasting the time of Sterling. If Romine handed Sterling the means to sue him into oblivion, I don't think there would be too many that would think any less of Sterling were he to take that course of action.
And it goes on and on my friend
According to my understanding of the information in this video. James Romine/Digital Homicide does have a case.
The legal battle will come down to whether Jim Sterling can convince the court that he did his due diligence and informed his audience that his opinions were presented as opinions and allegations.
Romine pointing out that Jim Sterling is technically in competition with him for being involved in development, will hurt Jim Sterling. The discretion of the judge will determine whether it matters or not. But a strict enough judge might say that Sterling does have a financial incentive to damage Romine.
I hope that Jim Sterling wins. And James Romine is banished from game development for all time. But this won't be a quick and simple court case.
25.000 lines of code is ridiculous for a finished game.
I worked on a mod for vermintide with some people.
It adds a few new features, nothing too crazy really.
But it still has 13.000 lines already.
14:49 That counter at the top of the screen infuriates me! How do you fuck it up THAT bad?!
Well look on the bright side when they get slapped down in court that means they can't bring it back ever again.
Why doesn't he just give up? Romine is losing and still clings to his false hope that he'll win. So in order to get around the judges order concerning the the legal entity of DH he tries to claim on behalf of another of his companies. Like you Sid I do hope this fails as I hate to see a world where criticism of poor games can lead to lawsuits and the stifling of free speech. I do hope the judge just throws this case out and orders Romine to pay the legal fees of both Jim Sterling and the courts.
Nice "Frozen" reference, SidAlpha.
I made a Frozen reference? I was so tired I don't remember lol. I'll need to watch the video again.
Well: I see the case as almost over. The judge asked for something specific and it was not provided. It is not the job of a judge to string together a case from various, legally unsound accusations.
Grats on Breaking 2k subs dude!
Thank you! Today 2k subs, tomorrow the world! Muhahaha!
*James Romine of Digital Homi(sui)cide is the Charlie Zelenoff of the video games industry.*
When this lawsuit fails, and Jim emerges victorious, I cannot wait for the Jimquistion episode that puts the final nail in the coffin on these disgusting brothers.
You probably already know of this but you should check out Leonard French's channel, he's a copyright attorney who goes over the legal motions and gives a bit of clarification on some of the more obscure legal motions and terminology.
Seriously, the egos of those guys.
They don't seem to understand that for something to be legally defamation, it has to be a factually _false_ statement.
A factually _true_ statement, as well as a _subjective opinion,_ cannot be defamation. It doesn't matter how much those statements may "hurt" somebody's business, livelihood or social status, it's not defamation if the statements are not outright _false._
For example saying "the people behind company X are the exact same people as the ones behind company Y" is not defamation if that's a factually accurate statement, even if saying so casts company X in a bad light.
Likewise saying "company X sucks" is not defamation because it's a personal opinion. For something to be defamation, it has to be a factual claim, that's false. An example of actual defamation would be, for example, "company X has stolen money from its customers", if that statement is clearly false.
What I find myself wondering in all of this: doesn't James Romine have a family? I seem to recall him mentioning having kids in his phone call with Jim, at least. How are they faring in all of this, with all the time and money he's undoubtedly wasting in his insane pursuit of one man who called him out on his bullshit? And are they worried about his mental health in any way?
That was Robert Romine who said that and the one that Jim was talking to during that whole interview. In terms of James, I don't think it was mentioned anywhere that he does have any family at all. I mean at least according to the arizona central article about them where it only specified Robert's family, but not James.
James has three Arizona court divorce cases. At least that's how it read on some Digital Homicide thread/s/. His ex-wives really needs those millions I guess.
I find it insane how Mr. Romine can at once be so utterly incompetent at this lawsuit, and yet still find out and scrounge together every single loophole he can find.
Everyone is capable of surprises. Even James Romine.
I think the worse precedent set by them winning (which sincerely think/hope they won't) would be that a company has the right to rebrand themselves to, from a legal standpoint, disassociate themselves completely from their past actions. Any criticism of them being or doing things as their past identity would be slanderous or inaccurate, as they are not legally that entity any longer.
Dradeeus I think the worst precedent would be "opinions aren't opinions and you can't have unfavourable opinions when reviewing something". This whole suit boils down to "Cana reviewer/critic have a negative opinion?" And,imo, the dissociation/rebrand issue you mention pales in comparison to the overarching issue of opinions and if they're allowed. Who needs to rebrand if no one can say anything bad in the first place?
I thought the dude once said "i'm going back to the work force". Turns out its another BS again
And now the students majoring law or those aspiring to be a lawyer, you have an example of a ridiculous lawsuit and can probably use it as a homework material.
Romine really doesn't know who he's dealing with. Sterling has dealt with harder cases than this.
To be quite honest here, James Romine will never give up. It has come to a point where Mister Sterling would have to be destroyed financially before James Romine give's up the chase. BUT, I also see that this sort of person never giving up until one day we see in the newspapers, and/or TH-cam that James Romine has either been admitted into an asylum, or he has been put up on charges for hiring a hitman.
Either way, no matter if Mister Sterling wins, James Romine will never let go. Seriously, I think he is slowly, if not all ready gone insane.
Thank god for jim sterling and you kind sir Sidalpha your a good man
Are they actually claiming that Jim felt so threatened by the Digital Homicide's games that they think he reviewed their games badly to make them loose money so people would buy games he did voice work in instead
He's crazy
I feel sorry for the judge, he probably just wants this to be over.
It's plain he is grasping at straws at this point , i hope the judge demands he pays all legal fees for Jim.
Digital Homicide should be focusing all resources and efforts in making 1 solid game than pursuing this pathetic lawsuit. Both Romines are completely delusional.
Can you imagine if they put all that persistence into making a game? =O
They should rebrand themselves as "Tenacious Tantrum".
Exactly! The Romines are so blind and brain damaged that they have lost all sense of humanity. I pity their children and grandchildren who will be humiliated by this atrocity in years to come.
to play Devil's Advocate - as far as the paperwork goes this is NOT the Romine brothers or even Digital Homicide - this is just ONE of the brothers with an apparent chip on his shoulder. (if memory serves, even the other brother has walked away from this to an extent). i'm not trying to justify ALL of their actions, but part of me can sort of empathize with the filing somewhat - not a full point, but about 1/1000000000000 if a full point. These guys have had their families threatened and things sent to their families homes, and possibly even voicemail left on private phone lines. there were lines crossed here on BOTH sides. IT DOES NOT JUSTIFY THEIR BEHAVIOR TOWARDS STEAM USERS OR THEIR COMMENTS ON STEAM - but by the same token, I do feel that those who made such threats, phone calls, and sent packages to their HOMES, (not the business), are equally, if not more responsible for this fiasco than this guy.
Good point. However, these threats wouldn't have happened if the Romines had been more responsible from the get-go and not be too critical about everything. In a way, I don't really blame the critics because with the way Romines have been acting, anyone would want to take action although harassment is not okay so some critics did go overboard.
At least the likes of Hello Games and Scott Cawthon have kept their cool despite aggressive responses from the Internet. That's professionalism. Digital Homicide are not professional in any way.
Hey Sid! You got your wish for a lawyer to look at this. Leonard French did a short video analysis of the amended complaint a couple hours ago, it is both informative and hilarious.
I saw. Might reach out to him for an interview. It's not normal content on my channel, but we'll see.
"IF" this ends on Friday (and let's prey it ends on Friday) you, LordCrocosquirrel and Mellow should have Jim and Leonard on the livestream for a full interview post lawsuit;)
I'm sure Jim will have his own plans for when this is all over. Plus while I'm sure he appreciates the visibility being maintained on Romine and all of the well-wishes, our channels really aren't large enough to be a draw for his. I certainly wouldn't be opposed to a discussion or interview afterward, but I don't really see it being in the realm of possibility.
I know he appreciates your work, he comments on a lot of your videos. XD You do good work Sid! And Id love to see a livestream with the three of you.
Actually, the three of you and Romine. His "discussion" with Jim nearly killed me I laughed so hard.
Jim Sterling posted a public response to Romine's crazy move on his TwitLonger. www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spjiga
The problem is that Romine thinks that Jim Sterling is the cause of his problems. Of course, it's the fact that his games are crap is what causes his problems.
I highly doubt that this case will continue due to the judge's order of requiring James to have a lawyer to do anything else. Around next week, Jim's lawyers will respond to this and/or the judge will immediately deny his amended complaint where at the same time, angering him for not following his orders. Then again, who knows what might happen.
Unfortunately what this does is provides a loophole for Romine via his assertion that Micro Strategic Designs was a sole proprietership, which would invalidate the order requiring an attorney and allow Romine to continue pro se for MSD.
Not necessarily - if they respond, the defense will remind the judge of a key point of his order which he agree with the defense, as Romine is still representing a 3rd Party (now more than one) without a licensed legal counsel.
Because there was a date set in the last order, this matter can be looked at on the question if Romine is the legal entity to state claims of nameless 3rd parties, which the Judge agree in his partial dismissal with the defense that he was not and had to get the lawyer. It doesn't delay deadline, but have to look at this now in order whether to postpone the deadline. The Judge will likely deemed this moot if he doesn't change his order. All that Romine did that is new here was add the mess of the 2nd lawsuit, blames Jim for the banishment from Steam and adds the multiple entities DigiHom was, plus Jim past voice work in other games.
Everything else is repeated points from past motions and complaints that the judge already discarded.
I can hope it gets thrown out and the guy goes bankrupt from court fees. Seems like he's only a game dev for a quick buck.
I don't see the judge accepting this honestly.
I hope when Romine goes to get a job they search him up on the internet and sees his awful reputation and he fails to get employed
James Romain is mad to accuse Jim and Steam as partners. The personal grudge is too much and he's still gonna get his ass handed by Jim's lawyers. This where a Tomberry would come in handy for Jim Sterling to use against the Romains.
most likely this will be trown out as well . there is not really enough evidence about this ' statement ' . i doubt that this will be re-opened . also the judge has yet to decide on the matter (Quoting the Dismissal order; pg. 3) "Several of Defendant’s arguments in the Motion to Dismiss may have merit. However, the Court’s present analysis begins and ends with Defendant’s first argument, that, according to his own allegations in the Complaint, it is insufficiently clear that Plaintiff is the proper party to bring his claims." if he finds the amended complaint acceptable, the MTD has yet to be ruled on in its entirety. but i highly doubt that he will find this acceptable.
Wasn't the whole point of this amended complaint basically to change the plaintiff to either Digital Homicide the business OR James Romine the person? And if it's the business then he HAS to get a lawyer or else be dismissed.
That's what I got out of the judge's order anyway, but I'm no lawyer :P
Pretty much. What he's attempting to do instead is shift the corporate name to one of the sock puppets so he can try and claim sole proprietorship and not be forced to hire an attorney (that he probably can't afford). I'm confident it will amount to nothing except potentially drawing out the lawsuit even further.
Ah I thought it was just him trying to level more accusations. Certainly can't deny they have gone through quite a lot of "rebranding" with the numerous alternate names they used in just a few years.
Guess we'll see if this new gambit pays off, though looking back over the documentation their assertions are flimsy at best and only further undermines their case at worst. We can only hope that the judge deems this new amendment insufficient and dismisses the lawsuit.
Digital Homicide is not a developer nor was he ever a developer.
"The lawsuit that never ends"
Pfft I'm pretty sure most lawsuits take longer, Romine didn't get a lawyer, his amended complaint will get thrown out the window and the case will be closed. Romine has no fucking clue what he is doing and usually both sides have lawyers.
This doesn't change the fact that he needs a Lawyer to represent his business! Why waste more of other people's time and money? Unless he thinks he will have a Lawyer by the 10th?
It does indeed change exactly that. As a sole proprietorship he could represent the business without an attorney.
SidAlpha if he goes that route he has to drop the dhs claims because he can't represent the partnership. He can only file claims as MSD.
I wonder what would have happened to Digital Homicide if Jim Sterling hadn't done a video on the Slaughtering Grounds, seeing as the Slaughtering Grounds was their second game and they were already operating under a new "trade name".
Hell Jim Sterling said that no one would have paid much attention to DH if they hadn't flipped out over his Slaughtering Grounds video and ended up putting themselves under a microscope.
He was correct. It would have simply been yet another low-brow title that Jim pissed on that people had a giggle over and then moved on. Their "Review the Reviewer" stirred the pot and then their false DMCA take down of the video ignitited the ire of not only Jim Sterling, but other TH-camrs as well. Their subsequent actions and reskins of asset flips doomed their reputation. Every action James Romine has taken has seem that of a child lashing out and crying foul when they don't get their own way.
Would be amusing is the statute of limitations kicked in on most of James Romine's "evidence" when this finally goes to trail, because most of this evidence is what already over 2 years old (I'm not a legal person, so I don't know how the statute of limitations works).
Statute of limitation usualy only applies to when a case is brought to court not to evidence presented in the case. It's based on the time the incident happened and how long you can wait before bringing a complaint to court. It doesn't have anything to do with dismissing evidence. Since this case has already been brought to court, it wouldn't apply here.
I'm not a lawyer, but even on a viewer level, this sounds a lot like dribble. Furthermore, it sounds like he still hasn't gotten legal representation, and without such, this may be seen by the judge as nothing that changes the lawsuit and may be tossed out
The change is that as a sole proprietership it can be represented by Romine pro se, negating the Judge's previous order.
Wait, wait. From what I heard, the judge ordered James to get a lawyer, or to take this this case under his name. What the fuck does that rambling bullshit about their sock puppet have to do with compiling with that order?
Skyrim, Disgaea 2, Civ 6 and Battlefield are available on Steam. Are the Romine brothers gonna claim Bethesda, Nippon Ichi, 2k and EA as codefendants?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the "competitor" part about Jim voice acting in some game? I also may be wrong with this but isn't voice actor paid for their talent once after job is done, not with profits as business associate? If so, it directly doesn't affect voice actor if game sells nothing so JimFuckingSterlingSon doesn't have any reason to affect thoses sales numbers, at least not as rival for Dig Hom
"25000 lines of code"? To me that seems small for the list of games Digital Homicide has made.
He copy/pasted a lot, I'm guessing.
Makes me wonder what the 300+ hours of work entailed. Them copying and pasting? Or them scrolling through the asset stores :P
reminds me of dudes who figure out their career is sham but litigation is their fallback job . would be funny if it wasn't a complete waste of society resources and other people time
Romine doesn't want to have to earn a honest living, so he's never gonna let this go. And if this recent presidential election is any indication, I'd be a fool to not be a bit worried.
True dat. But you know what's just as scary... look what we DID get.