Do Killers REALLY Have To Tunnel/Camp in DBD?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ย. 2024
- This is an Experiment to see if Killers actually HAVE to tunnel camp or slug to win as some people claim.
Vod of the challenge: www.twitch.tv/...
Video Explaining Why HIGH MMR Is a Myth: • HIGH MMR Is a MYTH And...
I stream 5 times a week at / hens333
Community Discord: / discord
Many of you have rightfully pointed out that I am way more experienced than the survivors that I play against in these 10 games and you are totally right.
Dead by Daylights matchmaking has a very low softcap on the MMR, the entire point of this is that if you are good enough you can win almost any game because you outskill your opponents.
I'm not saying Tunneling Camping or Slugging are bad or that you shouldn't do them at all costs, there are games where you will have to to win, BUT in the majority of games that you play you can win if you are just good enough at playing Killer.
If you are curious why I do not play against equal opponents check out this video I made 7 months ago, it is still 100% accurate: th-cam.com/video/lHk8IcjjSXE/w-d-xo.html&
I feel like people who tunnel and are not as good as you dont really learn anything by tunnelng. The only reason I dont really tunnel is because I feel I improve way faster when I dont.
"there are games where you will have to to win" - This is exactly Tru3's point though. You can say he's exaggerating about how frequently those games happen but that's all.
Again, people like Tru3 are not arguing that you have to tunnel every single game to win. If you watch even a handful of his videos you would see a good mix of games where the Survivors are weak and he doesn't have to try at all, versus games where the Survivors are extremely skilled and without tunneling they would all escape in a matter of minutes. He explains all of this time and time again. When he plays against weak Survivors he points this out. When he plays against highly skilled groups he points this out. I have already said this but, competitive DBD revolves around proxy camping, tunneling, and banning many of the problematic perks. You cast tons of games and seem to gloss over the fact that core competitive play revolves around this without asking the question as to why.
@@llimdaerthpue9835 Thats literally how this started, I said you can win 95% which I think is totally fair considering we had no killer power at all here, he said he gets good teams 50-75% of the time. That is a massive difference
@@justalilbit8759 well said, couldn't have said it any better myself. Against low skill surv there is no reason to tunnel or camp, against survivors that are at Hens level, if you don't camp and tunnel you will insta lose. Don't know why that's so complicated for people to understand.
The whole point of the challenge was 1. To prove that player skill matters more than using toxic strategies or relying on broken killer powers/ add-ons and 2. To prove just how poor the current state of matchmaking is. Obviously this wouldnt be possible if the survivors were actually good, but if anything this challenge proves just how rarely you go against actually good survivors in pubs
The goat bligth.
Good swfs go through gens like there nothing especially without gen slowdown perks which he had to waste 3 perk slots just to contend with average survivors. Also is it really "skill" to use gen slowdown perks?
@@Im_a_Hom0ph0be In comp games yes in pubs depends.
my dude, first game survivors were literally running into walls, 2nd game survivors were also dogshit leaving tri-gen. 3rd game he lost because survivors actually did their objectives, 4th game he was in a chase on the edge of the map and the two other survivors DIDN'T DO GENS NOR RESET. 5, 6 and 7 the survivors were so bad he didn't even SHOW the games and judging by how bad the survivors were in all the other games I can only imagine. In the 8th game he said the survivors were 'good' when all they seemed to do was fuck around trying to get flash saves and they all just swarmed the hook without a single one of them doing gens. NOT ONE. And again, he didn't even show the other two games. Sorry, but the game clearly shows that some people get preferential treatment in lobbies. My games are 90% like his 3rd game and I will only get the players he got in his 9 other games in ONE game out of those ten. It's literally the complete opposite experience.
He literally ended up slugging and tunneling by game 8.
I think tunneling and camping is needed sometimes against strong squads that push gens or comp players. You don’t need to camp and tunnel all the time though to win matches. You can do fine in most matches since most survivors aren’t even that strong at looping. It also depends on your build as well.
The weaker the killer is, the more likely you'll have to do some camping and whatnot when you run into a strong SWF team
@@KyokujiFGCskill issue
@@KyokujiFGC true
@@KyokujiFGC the more camping/tunneling you do, the more you win, and the more you win, the more you gonna face strong team.
Good luck
@@dommassa2667 yeah your right, that also means more tunneling.
The problem starts when you're a very casual player and matchmaking still drops you in versus survivors with 10x more time in the game....such was the case with me a few days ago: I haven't played Killer in like 8 months and barely and DBD in general because I was busy with Uni, but then my first killer match coming back was a 4 man SWF with meta builds and all of the clocking 3000+ hours vs my 500. I got 3 hooks at least 😅
yeeaahhh… i have 700 hours and got matched against an actual comp team that got banned from dead by oce league. two hook states and a lot of flashy clicking, flamed for having a clan tag in my name cos they thought i was another comp player lmao
I started recently have 50hrs and green perks on my trickster I got matched up with players who have 2.5k hrs how am I supposed to win with crap perks against people who have meta perks who can loop me while others rush gens
@@Praneeth_- You aren't supposed to win. In any game with a semblance of balance, a 50 hrs player is absolutely SUPPOSED to lose against a 2.5k hrs player.
@@Christian021RThat’s the problem right there. Those players shouldn’t be getting matched up against those players. That’s what people are saying. It kills the ability to have new players want to stay if there’s a really good chance you get paired up with overly competitive players who don’t want to have fun and treat the game like a competitive sport. There’s a reason why some games separate casual and ranked modes. But even then some people are assholes who instead of playing in ranked knowing they’re really good go into casual to abuse their knowledge and their opponents lack of knowledge to make themselves feel good about themselves at the cost of others I guess. Point is there’s no overall fix to any of this but you take measures to lessen the extent of it happening.
Skill issue.
I definitely agree that you don't need to camp or tunnel if you are good enough at killer and have a survivor team that isn't the best either, but my problem with the hate on these playstyles is that both of them can in many cases act as punishment for a misplay but are still treated as a trashy style for killers to use. A great example of both is the first match, with the last gen he hooks nancy, Hens even brings up that he is kind of camping because the gen and Nancy are close and he needs to stay near the gen, so by getting downed near the gen and having the whole team there the proxy camping is a form of punishment for them messing up, but survivors hate it all the same. Later the Nancy taps the gen while injured and Hens chooses not to chase because it would be tunneling, that area has very little looping potential left at that point and he could have easily downed nancy, she messed up by going for the gen while injured on death hook so she should have been punished for the misplay by being tunneled in that moment, but survivors still would argue against it just because it is tunneling. All playstyles have a moment for them, and while you shouldn't solely realy on camping, tunneling, or slugging, you should not stear away from them at all costs, just play how you want and how you feel helps you improve your own gameplay.
Stop with the generalisations, holy f*ck.
No, people with two brain cells would not argue it's camping or tunnelling if the survivor literally provoked the situation. Yes, salty babies would whine about it and accuse the killer of camping and tunnelling. And guess what ? I've faced a lot of survivors who've provoked camping or tunnelling and then whined about it, and when I go check their profile about half the time I'm shocked to see the "survivor" is in reality a killer main. The cherry on top is when their profile is full of comments saying how they're a face camping Bubba or a tunnelling Nurse :)
So no, it's not a "survivor thing," it's an entitled morons thing. On either side they exist and whine because they're losing and refuse to accept they brought the loss on themselves. Like how you have killers who will d/c and get salty in chat because they spent the whole game hard tunnelling someone who had an anti-tunnelling build and who ended up escaping. Or when I see that in almost every endgame chat or killer main YT videos I see morons whine about "gen rushing" when the survivors had literally zero toolboxes or gen perks, they just did gens while the killer spent 2 minutes in every chases. What else are they supposed to do ? Sit in a corner and drink tea ?
Tru3's original tweet was obviously about forcing camping, tunnelling and slugging, while Hens's point was "You don't need to *rely* on that," he never said if the situation gives it to you you should never do it, he was just proving a point. And even then, in that video, he actually "camped," slugged and tunnelled a lot because the survivors were literally forcing it.
Great points. I tell my less dbd experienced friends all the time when we play that we have to make the killer make tough choices. You can’t complain about camping if you led the killer somewhere it’s convenient for them to stay in that area. That is a situation the survivor created they have no place to speak ill about the killer. What I’ve learned from playing with my friends that are of widely varying skill level is that the average survivor isn’t even aware when they’re making such huge misplays. They literally don’t understand or didn’t think in the moment why going down at the last gen with 90% progress or dying near basement has completely changed the game in the killer’s favor lol. But I agree with your points. And one of my own beliefs is that camping killers are created by survivors. Wether by making misplays or rewarding camping killers with extra hooks/kills these killers are camping bc they’re gaining something from doing it. If killers camped and only got 1 kill every game they did it I bet there wouldn’t be so many killers ready to camp a match out from hook 1
These are great points.
If you ever play fighting games, the analogy i like to use is complaining about fireballs when you can block them and close the distance. You can jump over them. You can shoot your own. The point being is there a solution to dealing with it, and usually its not putting yourself in positions where its a good option for the opponent.
exactly, don't make it easy for the killers to camp. never understood why some of my "friends" would get mad at the killer for camping when they are looping right next to, or sometimes literally at the hook
That last sentence you typed encompasses literally everything. Don’t only use it, but you might have to use it and that’s ok.
The thing i notice playing killer and survivor is that by the time you finish one chase usually 1-2 gens get popped if the survivors spread out and it forces the killer meta to either go super slowdown to fight for the last 1-2 gens or to go super aggressive to try and snowball early. The problem is that killers only win by snowballing. If they apply consistent pressure usually the survivors can fully complete gens with around 4-6 hookstates. The common fix is just make gens go slower but that seems like a bad fix.
There was a great idea to make it so survivors had to gather parts before they could start repairing gens which would greatly help. Force players to roam more and also put a bit of delay on gens being done. Maybe each part letting you do 25% of a gen?
The time advantage they have early game will be flipped over the course of match if u split the pressure properly.
Only if you fail at your job you have to camp and tunnel to correct ur mistakes
@@SenkoVTHens was literally on low MMR and the gens would pop fast. If that's what low-tier survivors are doing, what do you think happens at high-MMR? It's not a case of not being able to apply pressure well, it's because there isn't enough time to pressure the entire map. This is why the 1 dead, 5 gens and 3 gen became strategies because you either stop survivors from being able to apply pressure early or you apply pressure to a smaller area later.
@@tecgoku3200 nonsense, hens had all kinds of opponents in his session!
Also dont forget that he didnt have any power to apply pressure.
The 3 gen strats are leftovers from a time when killer was weaker and when gen kick meta was strong.
You dont need either anymore
@@SenkoVT Yeah, except the 4 man he ended up slugging despite saying it wasn't allowed. He even says in his comment that he was playing at a low-MMR and that this isn't representitive of higher-tier survivors
For me the problem is that you can only win without camping or tunneling if you are just way better than the survivors. If you have 1k hours as killer and the survivors all have 1k hours, you will get smoked if you don’t camp or tunnel. Obviously when you are way better, you can afford to play nice.
Not wrong, but matchmaking in dbd is very loose
@@hens333 the issue is you don’t know that when you load your killer and perks. Honestly I don’t believe the game is balanced well enough to take seriously so I don’t and try 8 hook every game. I’ve tanked my rating to such a degree it’s more likely I’ll get a kill by the team not rescuing them or them hook suiciding then me failing to get the 8 hook, it’s very rare I fail and I use silly backpack builds and themed builds.
It’s not fun sometimes cus it’s so easy but better this then feeling like I have to make other people miserable in order to win. Some people are super grateful to me and yeah I play survivor too, I know what’s it’s like, so I try give people a break from people playing like their family will be shot if they don’t get a 4k.
That’s such a looser mentality. Yeah like you gonna get better against good survivors by camping them
@@hens333 "Not wrong, but matchmaking in dbd is very loose"
It sure is. Which is, why this scenario of "but what if the survivors are all as good as me?", rarely applies anyway. In almost every game, that I play as killer, I typically have one or even more CLEARLY weaker survivors, which are swiftly identified. And it can really bring down a team massively, even if the other survivors are grade A loopers. Simply because it squanders resources and forces altruistic out of position plays, which also easily hurt the strong survivors and make them vulnerable.
The MMR system is just so insanely hot and cold. Perfect example: Yesterday, I played the Twins for the second and third time (in total respectively). In the first game, I went against a bully squad, with map offering, hook distancing offering and flash lights/background player. Two of it’s gamers were pretty good and they were either a 4-man with a dedicated gen-jockey or a 3-man with a random. After that, the game put me against 4 randos, who were reasonably effective on gens and one of them was P100. In my third ever game as Twins! Again, with a map offering.
After that, I switched to Spirit. A much stronger and far more straightforward killer, that I get decent to good results with constantly (sometimes even at 5 gens). I easily have two dozens of games under my belt with Spirit, at the least. I got booked twice against teams, that had one or two members, who seemed COMPLETELY new. Never looked behind them, hugging the edge of the map in chase, completely running past pallets and loops. And that was on a Saturday evening, when a large player pool should make for MORE reasonable match-making (in theory).
I truly believe that MMR is far more dodgy and self-compromising, than people realize. It only seems to be “somewhat” consistent on the fringe ends (newbie pool and elite gamers/streamers). In the big middle part …….. everything goes!
Well, now I agree with you. It's very easy to win 95% of games without camping or tunneling (but only if you play against people who barely know how to play)
The thing that people don't get for some reason is that the mmr system does not work properly, most of the time they face really bad players, but the times they do face good players is what sticks with them, which would probably explain why people feel like "killers are weak" even though they're in a pretty good spot rn
@@starchase3311 the fact that good survivors just destroy killers and that only really bad survivors can be 4k'd without much sweat shows that killers are not in a good spot
@@starchase3311 most of the time I face swfs with full meta perks, I have no clue how you people face 'bad players' on killer side. Maybe it's a region issue.
@@justwatcher1539 you really are just bad if you're believing that huh
@@Natsukashii-Records mmr does not work properly because it tries to give you fast queue times, so most of the time you end up facing a player that's waaaaay below or waaaay above your mmr because no one else is playing at that time
What I get from this is that good perks go a long way
Being paired with no killer power. Just imagine if he had a decent killer with power. No wonder I only with about 15% of games as survivor in solo que
I mean u have also to be good with basic m1 killers in mind games, run tiles etc...
@@fresh_Mancio the survivors he went up against literally ran into walls most of the time and didn't know how to loop a fricking L loop without getting smacked in the face.
@@Natsukashii-RecordsI mean no matter how many hours a person plays u gon get ppl who are genuinely wack. Like I have 900 on pc and sometimes I get 3k 5k hour ass survivors who are horrible at loops or maybe a 1k hour dude who’s a god. just how it is with the damn game
@@OHITZJOE I find it hard to believe someone has played 3k hours and doesn't know how to loop properly unless they are actually disabled.
I think the question is a silly one, why should the game be balanced in a way where you can win 100% of your games with any killer. Like true saying "I can win 50%-75% of my games" as if that's like a bad thing. What other game can you play and have a 50-75% win rate in and feel like that's not high enough?
Thank you
I think the commentary after the garden of joy match says it the best.
"Garden of Joy against decent survivors was too much to handle"
Decent, not even good survivors, managing a 4 state match against someone who is much better than us.
Ty for the content as always as well.
That map and Eyrie are the two maps I despise the most.
Totally agree. There are too many extremely good survivors (and im not talking about pros in comp) that you as a 10k hours killer maybe you will never see 4 in a lobby (maybe 1 or 2, but a team is made of 4)
ok much better but literally not even using a power lmao
And that's killer without a power, Nurse without add-ons clears easily
you dropped some cherries there, bud
I find it funny that this video came out the same day Otz released a video showing how broken survivor perks are.
gotta avert sight from the handholding callouts
not a contradiction tho this video just shows how bad mmr is and even with op surv perks you can still get destroyed if you're bad enough at the game, doesn't change that MFT for example is completely busted on a very good comp player
You mean the (one perk) MFT Video?
I agree MFT is strong but not the 3% more the 10s bt (extra health)
Make BT on CD= Problem solved.
Wish more watch/ppl play like otz he is a good Killer compare to majority crybabys here
Okay so basically you only need to tunnel and camp with good survivors.
The only issue with that is it’s not always obvious if the survivors you are going against are good or not. Playing it more by ear weather or not if you have to tunnel or camp game by game. Then going for it out right from the beginning.
This just in: Pro player doesnt sweat against randoms.
Exhilarating experiment, bro.
Yea. Nba pro versus some street hooper BUT he won't dunk! This will prove that dunking in basketball is completely optional and not needed!
@@metamorforz5534 I get the intention, camping and tunneling is unhealthy for the game, I don't think most people will argue that. At the same time I don't like it when long time veterans purposefully obfuscate the issue like this, like they don't know better.
@@peterpotts7482 Honestly? Agreed. Most people are noting compared to Hens. Would be better if a avarage player did this test and not only 10 games around 100 would be a better pool of data.
Ikr. Great to know after thousands of hours 9 can finally play the game normal
At 2:33, slugs nancy while carrying bill and admits to camping nancy at 2:56 then tunnels her out at 4:18. First loss. second unknown third loss 10:17 tunneled steve fourth is loss fifth unknown and sixth unknown camped at 14:00 and slugged at 15:19 slugged again at 16:12 loss last match unknown
To me its a matter of intention. Tunneling, camping and slugging are fine when used strategically, but if you go into a match looking to do that basically unprompted (the classic „1 dead/3 hooks at 5 Gens“ scenario), thats just rude
Edit:
Before anyone says anything, its the same thing for survivors. Sabotaging, Flashy Saving, „Gen Rushing“ are all fair as strategies but become toxic when you‘re going into the match with the goal of bullying/annoying the killer (duh)
Sabotaging and going for flashlights saves are in no way comparable to camping, tunneling, and slugging.
@@pukerat7562 they are comparable as they can be very toxic strats too
@@pukerat7562 then what is? Its unfair to talk about it differently when its the same problem at the end of the day
This has always been my view as well. We get 2-3 quick gens while the killer only hooks 1 person, so they camp/tunnel them? Sure, they have to do that for a chance of winning. A person plays basement Bubba? Nah, f*ck you.
@@pukerat7562 I think it's easy to think this way because sabotaging and flashlight saves were clearly intentional additions to the game, meanwhile camping, tunneling, and slugging are just products of the gameplay itself and not *obviously* intended by the developers. The thing is, both sets of strategies are used as ways to waste the time of the other side and give your own team an advantage or leg up. As well as that, these things are also widely regarded by both sides as one of the most obnoxious playstyles to go against. There are a lot of ways you can compare these two playstyles, so it's not really fair to claim that one is incomparably worse to the other.
“Am I tunneling?”
Silly Hens, to the survivor main, you are ALWAYS tunneling
Exactly like survivors are dumb as fuck they think tunneling is literally the killer getting hooks.
Actually, i think there were some moments he may actually accidentally may have tunneled,slugged, and camped, but it just may have been how the video was edited so i dont know would have to ask a dbd referee to judge that
@@maxdragonslayer while you might be right, the phrase “tunneling” has become meaningless in my opinion. If I hook a dwight and then go around the map looking for another survivor and end up stumbling across that same dwight after he’s been healed and initiate chase, ill be labeled a tunneler, despite the fact that I actively left the hook and looked around for other survivors but didn’t see anyone except the dwight again. Survivors expect you to pretend you didn’t see the dwight and continue looking for another survivor, even if they are hiding. Survivor expectations get ridiculous pretty quickly.
Ha, I 8 hook so never kill anyone unless the survivors fail to rescue each other. I cannot be accused of tunnelling. I do however get accused of hacking by using aura reading and mad grit or using ‘skill less killers’ like addon less Myers so what can you do.
@sapereaude7376 and those are the rules hens and his crew had to play by...meaning if he didn't, those wins dont count and actually are losses. Meaning he had more losses than wins by the end, proving he was wrong
I had a Pig player who bought into the whole camp/tunnel philosophy so much they brought Undying to try to protect their NOED.
Fair enough
Those are the real champs. I've only faced ONE killer who did that in so many years of DbD...
Now though, with the aura change to NOED I wonder something: does it show the aura of both totems (Undying and NOED) to the survivors ? Since NOED's aura is shown but Undying protects it ?
Alot of these survivors where clearly not experienced, it really comes down to the skill/experience of the players in general. Do you need to tunnel/camp/slug every game? No definitely not but there is instances where if you want to win as killer you have to against those teams were the survivors have alot of skill/experience. Regardless match making makes no sense in this game and needs to be looked at. I know personally ive had constant games in a row where I play like this and dont need to use any power or even perks but the flip side has also happened where ive needed to rely on more tactics and slug or tunnel more just to squeeze out a win and it happens back to back. I would say a 50-60% split is accurate for me on how much I can chill vs how much I need to use these tactics.
All it proved was that an experienced player can destroy your average players. The one game you faced against good players that did gens, you lost. Every other team was average or not doing gens, in some cases both.
That’s the point tho. NO ONE is facing “high mmr sweat comp swats” all the time. That’s a myth killer mains tell themselves. Matchmaking is so bad (for everyone) that you simply don’t need to tunnel every game to win most of your matches. IF you’re good at killer that is
I think that was exactly the point. He isnt talking about comp gameplay (even though I have also seen comp games with no camping or tunneling still resulting in a win)
He tried to point out that it isnt necessary to tunnel/camp/slug in order to win in pub matches.
So for pub games you have basically two options: you go for tunneling and camping wich, as we all know doesnt require experience or skill in any way, or you actually try to go for chases without chasing only one person though.
This requires skill in chase, experience and macro gameplay)
Now surely people can take the short cut using very simple yet very effective "strats" in order to win OR decide to go for a skillfull win.
(The result => if you are actually skilled you win arround 90% of your pub games even if you play trapper without using trapps, camping or tunneling)
Pub matches include literally every player since mmr is kind of a joke.
So you will have, beginners, and casual gamers and also veterans.
You will be matched with soloq players, with duo players and with swfs
You will be matched with peolpe mainly going for archieve challenges/dailys. You will be matched with so called bully squads that are just trying to mess arround. And you will be matched with sweaty players as well.
He argued that if you are good with a killer you will win arround 95% of your games in public matches.
Surely you will lose against certain teams but hey killer players just like surv players shouldnt be entitled to win 100% of there games anyway.
Hens has defenitly reached the mmr soft cap so the game will match him with everyone above that soft cap but also with peolpe below it due to q time. The System works in the same (bs) way for everyone.
Now he did lose one game but please do not immediately simplify it.
Lets not forget that he played one of the weakest killer in the game without using the power at all. And lets not forget that this match was on garden of joy which is one of the strongest surv maps in the game (might actually be the strongest now)
So he proved that an experienced and skilled player can win arround 90% of the pub games even with no traps trapper.
@@sartrecamus386and what happens when you’re not good at killer? you can’t learn, you keep getting destroyed so badly you don’t even know where you went wrong without having someone point it out. there are no minor mistakes as a bad killer, there’s only getting completely obliterated every second of every match.
The better player should obviously win 😂
The fact that killers can tunnel and camp just because they are worse than the survivors they are facing is just stupid. Same thing with survivors who stay in locker all game just to escape through hatch only because the killer is better.
The person who is less skilled should always lose. I swear I have never had to say this bullshit when it comes to other games but dbd.
At this point it's just a skill issue.
@@theangriestcrusaderthen it's honestly a skill issue. Maybe try playing survivor? You can also kinda learn as killer what survivors are gonna do at a tile if you do it yourself.
No, you actually dominate harder by playing mindgames, disappearing randomly from spots, leaving survivors alone immediately into a chase. I use the term crowd control because i used to play alot of mobas, but a person who decides to run the killer (if the killer doesnt take the bait) to the end of the map, a downed survivor, a looping survivor, and a hooked survivor are all crowd controlled and unable to do gens. I genuinely believe that the easiest way to 4k is to consistently try to crowd control as many players as you possibly can as a crowd controlled survivor cannot physically contribute towards the survivor win objective.
I feel like too many people underestimate pathing in this game too
Made for this literally makes chasing targets with no hook stacks unviable for most of the killers.
Camping is essentially trading 1 or 2 gens for a hook stack/health state and doing this isnt always benefitial depending on the killer/add on/perks.
But what ive noticed is tunneling usually pays off. Turns out, asking survivors to choose between covering for their teammate to save them vs. Not covering and finishing remaining gens with 1 surv killed is a decent way to force survivors hand regardless of how much you inow about what kind of build survs are running.
lol
I think that you won 9/10 games while powerless and not tunneling/camping cuz:
*Main reason) Most of the survivors you played against werent that good (they just werent as experienced as you or some of them were just playing fully for fun and didnt care about winning)
*Second reason) You at least had a really good build to back up your skills as a killer
I have around 1300 hours and for the past few months I felt like (and I still feel like that) almost every game I play is a tournament and to stand a chance for winning I need to tunnel. I very frequently go against people with 4k, 5k,7k or more hours + those are often SWF's. I even played against members of team eternal once (no joke nicks were matching) and ofc I got absolutely obliterated 😂. I guess that I am just unlucky that I get matched with such an experienced survivors but it can sometimes get really annoying. Another thing that probably contributes to the fact that I frequently need to tunnel to win is the fact that I play only low tier killers - I used to main trapper, then legion and now clown.
Killers can also be pushed to camping/tunneling if survivors just bring the best stuff they can (for example strong perks, BNP's and map offerings) - if gens get completed super fast cuz of BNP's and the killer cant pressure gens enough cuz of bad map, then they have to try to get rid of one of the survivors before the engame.
I know that playing only to win is a bad mindset and I dont support it, but only losing isnt too satisfying and sometimes its hard to have fun despite of losing cuz survivors can just be toxic :/
Overall I think that low tier killers against experienced survivors (especially coordinated teams) really often need to tunnel/camp if they want to win or draw at least
*Of course when I see that I am playing against goofy survivors or they just arent too gen efficient then I adjust my playstyle and I dont tunnel :]
Right I'd like to see him play like this against people closer to his skill level and see if the results are the same.
you could have summed up this whole comment better by simply saying:
"you won because you're good
i struggle because i'm not"
Did you seriously say that him bringing good perks is a reason that this experiment is not accurate?
he is not going to answer you because hens is survivor site
@@Iamxxxx389 wut henz plays a ton of killer infact i believe he started as a killer main
You, too, can M1 your way to victory if you're in the top ~10% of killers! The rest of us however...
True. When you also take into account that out of all the survivors faced in this video, the vast majority were new, inexperienced or just bad. They really should not have been paired with him. However, the only survivors on par with Hens actual skill defeated him.
M1-ing your way to victory with no power, no slugging/camping/tunnelling etc. is quite easy if there's no real threat of the other side winning.
yes, its almost like you should avoid using lame tactics to get better at playing killer. crazy concept i know
@@JS-my4jw the only survivors who got one of the worst if not the worst map in the game for killer defeated him. its a lot less to do with skill in that match compared to how much it had to do with poor map design
@@zackmash851 I know which side you main ;) In all seriousness, it's just the state of the game. Killers have to be wildly efficient with downs (I read recently that a chase needs to end in a down in
@@kylekent4464 skill issue.
The thing is tho, you’re very experienced (as you said in your comment). If you play against survivors with a similar experience level I think it would be very hard if not impossible to not camp or tunnel a bit, especially with a killer like trapper. When I play spirit I don’t really have to tunnel or camp bc she’s good enough to not do that. But as soon as I play clown, Myers or even a decent killer like huntress I definitely need to proxy or tunnel someone here and there. Made for this is also horrible to play against for 110% killers and killers without mobility
Me watching the killer with thousands of hours face bedrock mmr survivors and then win almost flawlessly before declaring you dont need to camp or tunnel to win 😮
I mean, you don't. You only need to camp/tunnel if you're shit and/or want to be an asshole.
You just unironically said 'Bedrock MMR survivors' and 'thousands of hours killer' are you saying he has bugged MMR that never goes up? Mine you this man has something like a 500? win streak
@@GoldKitsuneBrony are you watching the survivors he faces? They look bloody lobotomised!
You’re misunderstanding his point. His point is that you can win most of your games in pubs without camping or tunneling, and a lot of people think you can ONLY win games by camping and tunneling. Obviously if you went against comp players every game this wouldn’t happen. This video also shows how poor matchmaking is, because these survivors are in the highest MMR bracket yet lose against a trapper with no traps.
@@julcandain this video you are looking at a pro killer player with the best perks go against survivors who are clearly new or have little time in the game. I myself have like around 1000 hours in the game as killer and still facing pub players can still be very difficult, considering the horrible maps there are, the god like perks survivor have and that the majority of fun killers are not pretty goodñ
You don't need to tunnel, if you have enough slowdown perks...
Not true in any way in almost all situations
@@Papajohn6954 how so?
Slow down perks give you the time you need.
Tunneling is just a shortcut for best slowdown in the game.
I don't think you *have* to camp/tunnel every game, but it *is* an important tool to use when you need to. I don't personally like to camp, but if I'm present with the choice between someone I've already hooked twice and someone I've never hooked at all, I'm *going* to target the person I've already hooked, especially if I feel I can get away with it.
>"I dont like to camp"
>"If I'm given the choice to camp or not, I'll choose camping"
Never say "but" when you're giving a statement about yourself. Especially when you're trying to present yourself in a good way. Now you sound like a hypocrite.
@@assetaden6662 camping and tunneling are two different things. I never camp (I don't count guarding a hook as camping if there were survivors swarming the hook unless you keep sitting there instead of chasing survivors/looking for them), but I will tunnel if takes no effort to do it (i.e. unhooked survivor is doing a crap job of trying to body block for the unhooker).
Camping is boring.
Tunneling is a valid tactic as long as you don't throw the game, but is kinda sweaty.
When playing survivors, when I see a camping killer with Kindred, I just do gens and we trade out when they're getting close to the next hook state, rinse and repeat until the job's done and everyone escapes with little effort. It's not a very thrilling match.
@@AlsoMeowskivich U missed the point the other person was making. Smh
@@godfrey4461that person was speaking nonsense though
IMO depends on the killer. Wesker/Blight/Nurse, no. Trapper/Pig/Freddy, sometimes yes. This has been made worst with Buckle up buff, MFT and the changes to fast vaults. The strength distance between killers is getting larger and larger and as a result lower tier killers have to play dirtier/sweatier or just give up and switch up to one of the high tier killers to stand a chance.
I mean he just did it without any killer power
ofc if you play nurse or blight you’re winning more games but part of the point here is that matchmaking is incredibly bad
@@julcanda I 100% agree that you can if you get lucky in the matchmaking. My main issue is the current game and how both sides after the recent update have been basically split down the middle. Ranged/Fast Killers vs M1 killers and SWF vs Solo. The game balance is only getting worst and worst and we’re getting to a point where eventually a majority of the player base will only play in a SWF and only a few killers will be played constantly… I mean, that’s basically what’s going on now. Solo queue players are either giving up or getting in teams and people are getting tired of only facing Wesker and Blight.
@@julcanda notice how bunch of games were skipped because it was against low tier survivors and even the games he didnt skip, survivors were just not doing gens. if survivors did gens, those games will have been much closer.
@@loctite417 yeah but isn’t that the point? His point is that matchmaking in pubs rn is bad
Everytime I play Killer and try to be fair, the survivors T-bag at me if I am not sweating my ass off to stomp them. So, I sweat and try hard to win no matter what. People like to blame killers for toxicity but survivors drive them to play like assholes.
Yea but one game of survivors doing that doesnt mean be an asshole to other survivors. Plus they probably are doing that for a reason
You could easily make the argument that toxic survivor squads exist due to the toxic playstyles from killer mains. Just becomes a never ending circle of blame, mainly because we have people trying too hard to "win" in my opinion.
I play survivor and focus on perk value, escaping is just a bonus. As killer while I do in fact try to win, I do so without prioritizing grimey tactics like camping, tunneling and excessive slugging. I also never slug for the fourth, whoever finds hatch first, finds it. I don't care to focus on trying to raise mmr for either side and it's made the game feel far healthier than previously. Something I'd recommend for everyone to consider.
i don't understand why people get so mad on tbags, u have literally to be dumb af to ruin u'r game cuz someone is crouching
very real.
I agree tbh. On killer I mostly do the same but there are times you have to tunnel/camp to not lose I'm not gonna lie but for the most part I don't have a problem getting a 3k or better in almost every match I play (except for the odd game where there are those god squads) but those are very rare to face. I play to win but also to have fun if that makes sense like I'll try for the 3k if I can and then give the last survivor hatch as I don't need the 4k to feel good about the game or to stroke my ego or whatever lol. On survivor I'd like to escape if I can but it's not a 100% priority either I just want to have some fun and a decent chase of two and feel like I helped my team out and if I escape then great and if not then it's not the end of the world.
I just try to play killer in a way that I would like to face as a survivor for the most part.@@TheKaiserSiege
Dude just proved that you dont have to camp and tunnel against low mmr bots
Tunneling is a killer tactic… camping can leave but you’re stupid if you think you could wipe every team out with their op perks/ gen rushing. Everybody complain about killers, but never expose the fact survivors kill fun by gen rushing
"low mmr bots"
Yeah, sure bud. That is the tru3 echo chamber (AKA: "killer mains" feeling really sorry for themselves) speaking out of you.
@@MightyJabroni i dont like him, but your reaction just proves that you are one of the bots bud
@@worgenlord3424 "but your reaction just proves that you are one of the bots bud"
How so? Or were you just reaching for a punchline? Because that doesn't make any god damn sense.
How low do you figure Hens' MMR is, Mr. Dunning Kruger?
So with this video you just proved us that yes you do need to camp, tunnel and slug to win
How? He’s playing the worst killer in the game with no addons and basically no use of his traps at his mmr.
The fact that he won any of them is surprising with that much of a disadvantage AND not tunneling or camping.
@@Idontknowwhat2type He ain't playing against good survivors tbh, almost every match I get into im forced to slug since I can't pick up because they'll get a flashlight save or I have to proxy camp since every single other survivor is trying to pick up the other.
@@w2rdog Im praying for you, maybe one day hens and the rest of us will reach the top secret super mmr bracket that you and tru3 are at :(
@@darkchicken7389 or maybe instead I should let survivors win because that’s why I want to do when i get on dbd
@@Idontknowwhat2typeAt 2:33, slugs nancy while carrying bill and admits to camping nancy at 2:56 then tunnels her out at 4:18. First loss. second unknown third loss 10:17 tunneled steve fourth is loss fifth unknown and sixth unknown camped at 14:00 and slugged at 15:19 slugged again at 16:12 loss last match unknown
Hens, now do the experiment with a less experience killer main in the game. Looking foward for that video :)
I guess TrU3Ta1ent is just less experienced
but the whole point is to prove that if you are good enough you can just play normal
@@dandbd1748If you're good enough you can play the game handicapped with no power and still win 90% of them time. Therefore your average killer should have no problem winning without tunneling as long as they use their power.
@@Zettaaaaaaathat's a bit of a false equivalency because of just how good these killer players are in terms of experience and time sunk into the game but I see your point.
Hello Everyone! Regarding Hens video if killers really have to tunnel and camp in DBD in order to win. It's a really interesting experiment, but I had an idea of how the experiment was going to end. Personally the end results doesn't really surprised me at all. Why? You might be asking because he is an experience and knowledgeable killer with more than 10k hours in the game. Also, the data he acquired from his friends doesn't amazed at all because I said Because of most of them are really good killers and also part of COMP DBD with a lot of hours in DBD. Personally I would love to see this experiment with less experienced killers on DBD of course less hours in the game. In order to prove if killers do really have to tunnel and camp in DBD Because we are aware that pro players can get wins without relying on this type of gameplay. I'm looking forward to see how less experienced players will perform among these rules.
So basically a couple players who has been playing the same game for 6 yrs was able to win against tomato cans but could barely get 4 hooks against a halfway decent team, not a comp swf team just a random public match and somehow this proves you don't need to camp and tunnel? Right..
The problem is that if the killer doesn't tunnel (or camp), needs to be very precise and can't do any mistakes. If the game punishes a mistake, that's okay. But the fact that survivour can do multiple mistakes without risking anything "big" (like going down with 0 hook at 1 gen for example) is just bullshit. And killer can't do a single piece of mistake in the whole match for the win. A good team (not even a top) will force out this mistake even from the best killers so let's not talk about a casual high mmr killer.
And we don't have any crazy perk like MFT or Adrenaline. Yes, Pain Res and Pop together are good, Deadlock is life saver sometimes, but if you wanna run something else, sorry bud. Devs also nerfed the other options like Eruption, COB, Overcharge and gave us nothing instead of them, not a single perk. While survivours got crazy perks but at least usable ones.
So yeah.. we are in high mmr but this game is not our "job", we can't play with this 0/24. What should we do now? Watch how the survivours tbags us while they had 15-20 sec chases max? And only the busted gen speed saved them from being destroyed? Thanks no. Change my mind.
Cries in unskilled killer main
People who play this game for a living don’t agree with you, wake up. Killers can make 1000 mistakes and still win the match. Everyone knows that.
Dead hard is gone. Healing is gone. Etc
Cry about something else
@@jo.elle.swtf are you saying? You schizo kid touch Grass and meet reality.
@@jo.elle.s People who play the game for a living live and breath the game. They don't make many mistakes because the game is a job. Most people play the game on the side or for fun. What a ass backwards take lmao. This doesn't even count as an argument as it commits the Appeal to Authority Fallacy.
Tru3 and Hens are both right from their own experiences. Hens and his friends are very good at the game and even if you think they got "lucky" or had weaker survivors they've shown that they can consistently win a majority of their games. But regardless of that you should never be able to win more than 75% of your games at max mmr imo. Tunneling and camping letting players win in situations where they should lose is a problem with the mmr system as a whole and should be addressed. Tunneling and camping is essentially a cheese strat to get wins when you realistically shouldn't. Then again DBD is just unbalanced for any sort of competitiveness without restrictions in place. There's too many perks, items, killers and addons that are just better than the rest. So if you don't always bring the very best then even if you are the better player you could still lose. Even a master swordsmen would lose if they went against someone with a gun and that's why DBD in a non competitive setting will never be balanced.
The entire point is against good survivors that are playing optimally an m1 killer loses probably 8/10 times. On top of this, Killers "winning" a lot of the time aren't based off if they are playing well, it's based off if the survivors are making mistakes/playing optimally. This video just proves this. Not only is Hens tremendously more experienced in both survivor and killer than almost every other player he went against, but he also has an extremely powerful set of perks backing this up. In the matches with actual solid survivors, he lost completely and there is nothing he could have done to change this outcome. So yeah TLDR, for 99.9% of the playerbase, yes tunneling/camping is absolutely required in order to achieve what most believe is "winning" as killer. For someone as experienced as Hens with a strong build it is *barely* possible consistently. Using the excuse of "if you were just good enough at killer", not everyone has 8,000 hours on dead by daylight LMAO. 99.9% of players yes Tunneling/camping is required to "win".
Edit: The more you think about it, the final statement of "you can win a large number of your games if you are good enough at killer" is the exact same thing as saying "If you are a professional and or play this game for a living you can win majority of your games" I mean yeah...?
Damn. This got less likes than comments adding nothing but calling tunneling/ camping “toxic”. W comment right here.
Dbd is a long progress game the first 500 hours you are Beginner you need at least 1000-2000 hours to say im playing well
This is way different than Playing CoD/CSgo where you can good at the first 5 hours when you have good Aim
Most ppl who complaining are under 1000hours
@@muysli.y1855 tunneling and camping is effective in higher mmr though. Watch the goat, king wolfe. He is god at killer.
@@belitithd284aye a fellow Wolfe fa what’s popping
@@DivineCJ_ Yes SIR
Depends on a lot of context.
Is your skill too low? Yes
Is the map seriously out of your favor? Maybe
Are the survivors bringing full meta? If its not countered by their perks, go for it. (Full meta users on both sides are annyoing)
For me? No, not really. I only do it if they match the energy of your typical dbd tiktok player (overly competitively and apathetically cringey)
Also sometimes its just smart to, as in the unhooked surv tries to tank hits, they kinda give up the chance to go, or if they just run into a wall/dead zone and ur falling behind in pressure, wasting freebies usually gets you nowhere
Still if ur stomping would be nice to make blind eyes but its no usually the case
Curious to see if anyone agrees with me. I have no issues with tunneling or camping if it's brought on by the survivors. If you don't bodyblock after unhooking, or you hide, and the unhooked survivor gets tunneled out I have 0 issue. If two survivors are just standing near a hooked survivor giving the killer incentive to leave. 0 issue. But doing stuff like dropping chase to go cross map and tunnel unhooked survivor. And to a lesser extent ignoring all other survivors getting in your way to tunnel one person out. I'm not a fan of that at all.
A player in the top 1% of DBD players going against survivors (most likely) not in the top 1%. The only thing this video proofs is that Hens is REALLY good at the game. You need look no further than "professional" DBD to see that you must camp and/or tunnel to even get 2 kills. And that is with survivors being limited in what they can bring, ie no BNP, syringes or duplicated perks.
All that said, I think the game is in a good spot for the majority of killers. The problem is that any nerfs to survivors disproportionately buff the S and A-tier killers. Increasing gen speed to 100 second completion would make Trapper feel better but would make Nurse and Blight even more oppressive. Everyone just needs to get it through their heads that you're only supposed to win 55-60% of the time. These folks that go on 300+ win streaks on killers are the far, far outliers. And guess what? They need to strategically camp, tunnel and slug to achieve those results.
I love how you just told Tru3 he's trash like a true gentleman, props to you! He's probably gonna argue back with "you don't know the survivors I go against, these are obviously baby survivors unlike the comp teams I get" or something along those lines.
Didn’t you know there’s a special tru3 matchmaking system that only applies to him and his community? While everyone else is facing babies, the tru3 community is facing sweaty comp swats every game. The devs did this because they hate killer mains /s
@@sartrecamus386you’re missing the point
Bro just stop look at every single match he had no one was efficient on gens and if they were they couldn’t loop mfs got mind game around a car like bro….
I have a lenient stance towards tunneling. I think game sense can make up for a lot of lost pressure by not tunneling; just having an idea of where people are, what gen will pop, how long you have to make a hook and when to slug or not is more important than waiting out the BT. That aside, some games you wont have a choice if you really want to win. The 10%ish margin of games where the killer will lose not camping or tunneling is the margin where the God squads lie. So in theory, you should only HAVE to camp and tunnel in 10ish % of your matches, the rest is more of a decision for you to make.
Overall, i think it depends on the perks, the killers, and the maps more than anything else. Tunneling can be effective, so can camping. Just dont let it become your only skills, is all I'll say.
Before i say this i just want everyone to know that i have nothing against hens, infact he is one of my fav dbd content creators, but this vid dosent prove much. Out of the games shown none of the survivors seemed like they 100% knew what they were doing, not making windows they coulda made, greeding pallets they shouldnt have and falling for mindgames you shoulda lost. This isnt even something thats hidden, hens even mentioned himself that 4 of these games he went against "inexperienced survivors" and didnt show them. Plus you got graced with alot of bully squads which killer does win eventually and teams that werent to good. Infact the only game that i'd say the survs were competant was the game you LOST on garden of joy, and even then they make mistakes that just dosent happen and if you tunneled you probs woulda won. Im not saying that i play against perfect survs, people do make mistakes but i dont think that this video in itself has enough to prove that some games, you just get unlucky and the survs DICK on you and You ont even get a 1k if you dont tunnel/camp/slug. I havent seen the other videos you linked and ik they are some really top tier killers and ill go look at them now but for now im sorry bro but this video in itself, dosent prove anything.
Edit: Am i blind or did he not put the vods of those other guys in the description?
I Don't think it's needed but it's the strongest thing a killer can do, similar to how Survivors don't need to gen rush or flashlight save etc but it's the best thing they can do and to tell either side that they shouldn't play to the best of their capability then that's just not realistic
Wdym "they dont need to genrush"? They're supposed to do 1 gen at a time?
@@assetaden6662 it means having fun, cleansing totems, doing challenges, entering/assisting chases not because they need you but you want to be involved and move around loops be creative, they don't need three people on gens cranking out multiple gens at once while a single person runs one loop between main and shack
Asking for a killer not to tunnel, slug, camp, hold a 3 gen, or even not use blood lust is basically asking to play with a bot. Its like asking survivors not to flashlight save, dont loop, do chest and totems before doing gens. It's pretty ridiculus how mad people get for playing a certain way. People will play to win and will do what they need to do to win. Those who like to mess around, well sucks to sucks cause the community has made this game into a comp game.
Okay, now do it against equally skilled survivors. All this really demonstrates is that if you're significantly better than your competition, then it won't matter what killer or strategy you use.
Exactly. He needs to face KL, Laser etc... with this same setup and get destroyed, proving it IS needed on equal playing field.
@@AmyLovesYou but matchmaking doesn’t provide an equal playing field. So what’s the point of fantasising about that. If one of the best dbd players that we know doesn’t need to tunnel, then you don’t need to tunnel as well
But if someone is better, don't they deserve to win? 😅
These matches showed that he is more skilled that the survivors he faced and in that case he should win. People shouldn't win against someone that is better than them. While playing dbd, this is the first time I heard someone say tunneling and camping is fair because the survivors are simply better. At this point it honestly is a skill issue.
@@AmyLovesYou since when no traps trapper an even playing field?
@@AmyLovesYou
Makes no sense. Those are competitive players who'd predrop every pallets. In real games, survivors don't pre-drop every pallets despite why you all want to believe.
Also, he'd be against a full SWF with comms which isn't the majority of the survivors we face in PUBs (and once again: despite why you all want to believe.)
It wouldn't even be about "skill" anymore but purely comp strategy vs PUB strategy which is why it'd make no sense.
On top of that, he had no powers. You think facing decently but not insanely good survivors *without any powers* isn't enough of a handicap ?
You all just want to easily stomp anybody, that's honestly all there is to it, and that's why no matter what kind of videos and tests people make, you guys are never satisfied and say "The survivors/killers were babies."
You're all constantly acting like you're facing top tier survivors which is why you *need* to camp/slug/tunnel, when in reality half the survivors you're facing have less than 500h and have spent a good portion of their game hiding, cleansing totems, opening chests, and memeing with emotes.
Can you win without tunneling, slugging, or camping?
Ignore the bringing massive slowdown...
Match 1: Camps and tunnels. (challenge loss)
Match 2: Brings a team he said wasn't trying to do gens. (would not count it as a win)
Match 3: Loss
Match 4: Slugged Meg to chase the Felix and force him away. (challenge loss)
Match 5-8: Noobs
Match 9: Slugged the Tapp three times. Slugged the Mikaela twice. (challenge loss)
Match 10: Noobs
It would seem if we were honest about the games, the answer would be no.
you CAN win without all of these tactics but remember that the best playstyle possible revolves around all of these
I just made a perfect game as a doctor with a good anti-genrush cancer build.
I had made 3 hooks and 4 generators still up, I still loose the game.
There were 2 decisive strike, and another shit.
Let it go, he doesn't understand anything.
You just can't win a high elo game against good players with cheated perk that adds life points if you don't tunel.
His works versus random player.
@@user-fm9rf2ij2z those extra life point perks... yeah they do nothing if you dont tunnel the person
@user-fm9rf2ij2z ds only works if you go after the same survivor, and your comment implies you in fact did not. Somethings not coming along here
I think some people are missing the point. Alot of the survivors might be babies but the point wasnt that m1 only can beat pro player swfs. It did prove that if you are skilled enough you will win most of your public games as an m1 killer.
The problem I have with this video is that you need to sack a bunch of hours into the game to become "experienced" while I do not have a problem with playing the game to learn as a casual player I don't want to spend my time learning every single structure in the game just to try and loop it better. I don't want to need to become one of the best players in order to make sure I'm winning a majority of my games. While I am not here to justify tunneling, camping, or slugging, I do think that "well me and my friends who are some of the best players won a majority of our games so you shouldn't need to do this." This a bit unreasonable as a justification to say stop using this playstyle. While I once again don't advocate for doing those three playstyles, I do think they have their time and place depending upon the game.
in my opinion when you're a super experienced survivor and killer main and making a video like this it kind of defeats the purpose because you know how to play around the obvious tactics for example the "mind games" and the strategies because you have so many hours in the game that its easier for you im sure even without perks and addons the games you have wouldn't be as hard as a casual player with no knowledge of loops/strategies/etc.. not everyone in the community watches tuts on how to effectively deny these things so they resort to the easier tactic Camping/Tunneling even Otz camps/tunnels against some survivors when it makes the game easier so im not sure if i can say camp/tunneling are the most effective for Beginners/casual players but for experienced killers ofc its not necessary As you pointed out these are "top tier" players with these results
Yo cant wait for the Alien I wonder what the mori is gonna be, im kinda hoping it brings out a facehugger I think that would be cool
I want it to be the skull punch
i thought of that exactly when i saw the teaser. maybe a facehugger will come out of its chest and infect the survivor or maybe break its jaw
I would reather it use it's tail which would be iconic
@@KujoMCin AvP 2010 there was a special Harvest kill you could do on unwitting scientists. It basically looked like the Alien forcing them to the ground and holding their face up too a hugger that walks up and hugs them. If the Mori is the facehugger then I imagine then i feel like it'd be like that
There are gonna be 2 Moris similar to Sadako and PH
The answer is yes, the average player does need to. You cant compare this gameplay to what every killer should have to do- it’s hella stressful to win. Like who would want to sweat their butt off every time they play a video game..
The thing is for most the answer is yes. Sure if you have 2000 hours you obviously won't have to. But for the average killer player they will have to tunnel and/or camp to win.
the debate started from Tru3Talent saying that killers have to camp and tunnel in order to consistently win, and he is an experienced killer
@@semplar2007If you want the truth and only the truth Tru3 will give you that. Even otz sometimes says stuff which are just not it chief
"hey guys im coming at you with a video where i take offense to the true statement that you need to camp or tunnel or slug sometimes, to disprove this im going to change myself to an m1 killer against a group of 4 random survivors of lower skillgroups, enjoy"
i just feel the need to point out that you did almost nothing of what the challenge asked for and called it a job well done, no harm or hate meant, im just petty and felt like pointing this out:
its like you understood exactly why this is the wrong approach to take and still went with it. Look, its purely about which team can be better at managing generators, going against a group of lower skilled random survivors is the worst approach you could take, all you have done here is paint yourself like a clown a little bit my dude. because they are 4 random survivors that almost escaped several times but lost because you had triple slowdown perks along with them barely missing last second of finishing a generator, congratulations, in the very first game you proved that a high skill killer with 3 slowdown perks can be beat by lowerskilled, random survivors when you dont tunnel or camp or slug
okay i have to add again, but in the second last game you had 2 ppl on the ground and tried to down david, not long after that you chase one of the girls after shes been unhooked and stay camping the pallet to get her specifically... just felt like i needed to point that out
So if I'm understanding correctly, you can't against good survivors?
like wasnt the point of this was "vs good players" and this was almost all just avg to bad players lol every comp game iv seen shows killers having to force stage 2 hooks before doing anything else
Some killer dont have the potential to win again a good teams. Remember survivor are skins but you cant go whit a B or C Tier Killer trying to get 4K. You need tunnel or camping, if you wan "win" the game.
@MichaelxVoorhees the point of this was not "vs good players"
Right. Only a team or 2 was actually good.
No just 90% of the community is shit at the game
Tl;dr Killers are the ones making themselves feel the need to camp and tunnel. Camping and tunneling is a "cheese" strat to win games you shouldn't and raise your mmr making the game harder for yourself which then makes you think you need to do it more creating and endless cycle of camping and tunneling. Tru3 spreads this mindset to his community from his own experiences making the problem even worse. Killer players don't need to win the majority of their matches and should lose close to 50% of them.
The "I need to win most of my games without trying or the game is unbalanced" mindset will kill dbd. That's my biggest problem with tru3's take. Rather than accepting that you can lose games and people can be better than you he will tunnel and camp and say that the game is unbalanced because he "had" to do that to win. Tunneling and camping is an oversight in the mmr system and is essentially a cheese strat to win when you shouldn't because of flawed game design. So by doing it he is making the game harder for himself by making him versus better players that will make the game harder which will make him feel like he has to do it more to win thus reinforcing his "tunneling and camping are necessary" mindset. If you don't tunnel and camp then your mmr will naturally balance out to around a 50-60% winrate which is what any games winrate should be at. You should never win more than that once you've reached your appropriate mmr and that's what tru3 doesn't understand since he thinks he is so much better than everybody. Yeah he is good. I'd even say very good but that doesn't mean he should be winning every match and if he feels like he needs to tunnel and camp to achieve that then maybe he shouldn't be winning those games at all and belongs at a lower mmr. Of course items and perks play a part in how likely you are to win a game but that's a different point. If both sides bring the same level of stuff then the better player should win but with tunneling and camping that isn't true. If you camp or tunnel out 1 person then your odds of getting a 4k as killer go up exponentially. So by doing that you can win against players who on paper are better than you. And as I said before by winning those games that you shouldn't you will only make your future games harder for yourself
good lord jesus im not reading all of that
You don't need to tunnel or camp if survivors don't do gens. Thanks for the experiment.
The answer is 100% yes.
with tunneling and focosing one player out, you play mutch better. As better the survivors are, as more you need it. Thats why on turnaments (when the survivors are at the best) killer allways try to tunnel one out. Depending on your skill vs. the survivors skill it might not be needed, but if the victims reach a certain level over your ability you have to.
Maybe not everyone play dbd for a living Hens
yeah that doesnt take away from the point, that you dont need to camp/tunnel if you're actually decent at the game
@@zackmash851 Lets seem him try this against Eternal. He'll prove real fast how needed cheese tactics are.
@@AmyLovesYoubro NO ONE is playing against fucking comp teams on a regular basis. What’s the point of bringing up comp dbd when the discussion is about public matchs
@@AmyLovesYou ok, lets see him come up against eternal in his pub lobbies so we can see
Man With Machete is my favorite play style because it’s base-lot DBD. Very liberating in a way, and I feel it tests my mastery of Killer fundamentals.
Survivors: complaining about camping, tunneling and slugging 🤓🤪
Killers: complaining about genrush, flashlights, and OP perks 😤😬
Me: shamelessly abusing all these things on both sides 😎😈
finally a normal person in this comment section
I think this whole debait just really falls apart when we talk about your avarage match. If there are 2 sides who are equally as good with one side doing their best while the other is not, there is no way the side not trying should come out on top 95% of the time. If survivors are as good as the killer and want to win while the killer is just chilling, trying to 12 hook them (and it isn't a Blight or Nurse...) why should the killer ever win? Unless the survivors make a massive blunder, they most likely won't. What is more likely is that simply most teams are nowhere near Hens' skill level for example and/or the ones that come close are messing around which would better fit an avarage match. There is no way good survivors that actually try should consistently lose against a killer that is barely trying aka. not using the most powerful tools in their arsenal, unless its a very oppressive killer with strong builds. Comp shows that killers NEED to tunnel bc they can't contest 4 survivors for too long that are all working together, this is obviously an extreme example btu I think it presents my point the best. You need these strategies its just sometimes rare to bump into a squad that makes you need it, at least for someone like Hens who's a God at the game but, your avarage match also involves avarage killers, right? So why wouldn't they need to try against a similarly skilled avarage opponent?
I have around 1000 killer hours and it used to be a point of pride with me that I would always go for a twelve hook game with zero camping or tunneling if possible. But recently, after far too many 6 hook/4 man escape games, I've found myself camping those hooks in endgame just to get some sort of result. Still don't tunnel though. You go to a special hell for that.
lol the last part cracked me up
To be honest tunneling or camping when you have 0 sacrifice at like 2/1/0 gens left is fine, because u need points/results at the end of time so yes, when i play killer this is what i do, i'll try to put everyone stage 2 before killing. if i'm losing then i'll go for tunneling or camping ONLY if i have few gen left without sacrifice
So I go into a special place of hell, just because I want to play effective and win the match? Survivors do the exact same, by trying to finish gens really quick, so I hope they go to hell too. Seems only justified to me after this wild statement.
@@clusterfeld8192 You play the way you want, for my side i just want everyone to have their fun, spending more time to queuing than playing is frustrating. ihate being tunneled or camped to death (except of course if he is loosing so doesnt matter) so i just want to spread love to everyone, if u want to sweat your life over a fun game it's up to you
@@anatawayowai4396 so what if I get my fun through winning? tunneling and sometimes camping is a good strategy to win and therefore to have fun in my opinion.
This is kind of like a math prodigy doing a video called "Do you really need a calculator to work out the cube root of Pi?"
"I did it in my head and got 20 decimal places correct. I also asked my other PhD math savant friends, and they all had no problem without a calculator either."
See it’s interesting though. Even tho there’s still a good amount of winnable matches. Look at Hens’ build. He has to run triple slowdown with STBFL. I’m CERTAIN he would’ve lost NEARLY every match if he didn’t have a mega build while still playing like this.
Yea but killers use builds like this while tunneling and camping💀
You've go to remember he didn't use his power along with any add ons so any observation you made cancels out.
I don't get why people say this, it's like they're wanting to win every single game while not tryharding, bringing shit perks, playing the worst killer in the game and with 1 hand only, and if they don't they complain that the game is unbalanced, like what?
That wasn't the point of the video, the point was that you can still win while not tunnelling, camping and slugging.
Hens : Play M1 Trapper
You : well if he doesn't have any perks, he would've lost.
Like huh, you want him to play blindfolded with one hand to prove that you don't have to tunnel and camp ?
HENS MY GUY, finally a someone with some influence in this community is talking about this. I feel like i've been banging my head on a wall this. I not so long ago heard another top content creator for DBD say in his video that "if you are hook spreading, you've already lost". I played few weeks before Wesker Release and played 600 or so hours on Xbox. I quit for around 6 months due to irl stuff. After returning from my break ive played cloe to 1k hours across both killers and survivor and since coming back i hav found that tunneling n camping has become the most common tactic. I recorded data from over 200 matches, where i documented myself and the team being tunneled or camped, And even had screencaps of some of the convos ive had with people. As you can imagine most responses are toxic like GG Ez or Get Gud Kid etc etc, but there was many many killers who felt that slugging, tunneling n camping i the only way they can get kills.
I made a HUGE reddit post about it with some screenshots to open a discussion and within 10 mins post was deleted for over saturation, and after having around 10 posts removed trying to discuss the topic and being called out by mods for over saturating the sub, even thou every 2nd post was a huxley meme post frustrated me and i ended up calling out the mods in a post that got me banned, and in frustration i just deleted the folder with all my evidence n took a week break.
At the moment all I ever see is people talking about how unfun killer is with overpowered perks like Buckle Up or Made for This etc, but funnily enough in 90% of matches all i see is Claustrophia or Trail Torment, and i see almost no one using Buckle up, most peeps still running the old MAde for This, Resil builds.
It is so hard to start a discussion on this topic and it has got to the point where i went from being a 4 person group of friends playing socialy ( we are not competitive but we used to play alot ) to being myself until i convinced my brother to play around Knight's Release/. And even he is thinking about not going on anymore due to him being a survivor main, and finding this frustrating and most importantly unfun.
I understand some situations call for a slug or a tunnel. But this stuff doesnt happen in dire situations, it usually starts from 1st chase n hook on 5 gens most of times, so its not being used as a o crap im doing badly tactic. And unfortuantly i think people are to selfish to allow others to enjoy the game aswell, myslelf included. I have on some occasions gone in as killer and just played toxic af tunneling hook camping hitting on hook, because i get frustrated with it myself, afterwards feeling like im part of the problem and slapping myself.
If tunneling n Camping doesnt get resolved somehow, other than competive players, this game is gonna die out for the longterm non competitive players, and will be filled with competitive players or new players and nothing in middle.
Sorry for spelling wall of text and my eyesight not the best today :P
There is only one solution for killers. Git Gud. And don't obsese over invisible MMR bragging rights.
Honetly like this video and shows how if you are able to apply pressure by committing to more chases you can at least get around a 1k most of your matches. When more killers camp and tunnel, especially during early game, they just end up loosing a lot of pressure on gens and overall end up winning less matches.
Not true at all lmao. Most survivors suck at this game. Tunneling from the start is a strong strat to crush most surv teams. Only good swfs counter it.
The main issue with dbd is that the majority of the players that play it are just not good at the game plain and simple lol. As a survivor idc if the killer tunnels and camps if my teammates are good and make reasonable plays. I don’t want or expect to escape every game that would be boring. I just want reasonable decisions and plays to be made then I can have fun and be okay with any result of a game
Last night I had a game where I looped a Bubba for 4 gens. He eventually got me down on a pallet and slugged me there. Too scared to pick up and risk me getting saved. My health bar got to about 30% from this and the whole time all 3 of my teammates came to the area and crouched around waiting for this bubba that obviously wasn’t gonna leave me. One of them finally does something and picks me up in front of him which the bubba of course chainsaw and puts us both back on the floor. Hooks me and face camps me. Then the rest of the game goes my teammates all dying to the face camping bubba at my hook without even unhooking me. Just running up then away a little and dying to chainsaw. The last gen never gets done. What should have been a 3 escape for the camping bubba turns into a long ass boring 4k where 3 of the survivors just commit suicide to him. They rewarded his camping. Survivors are the ones creating campers
Thank you for making this content. I see so many killers with this mindset hard tunnelling at 5 gens and saying "I have to". They don't believe anything else.
Personally I think the vast spread in killer effectiveness also makes the camping/tunneling question way more complicated.
When I play Artist or Nurse I don't tunnel or camp at all and I still frequently end games against really good survivor squads at 3-4 gens. I don't even notice whether they're running the tryhard meta perks or not since these don't really change much about my chases.
When I play a low tier killer like Legion or Nemesis, a half-decent survivor squad frequently gets 3-4 out. Its also super noticeable when they're running good perks like made for this, as they have a huge impact on chases and a half-decent survivor using them can extend a chase beyond all reason. A survivor squad can be much lower in skill than the ones my artist rolls over and still win.
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As long as such a ridiculously huge disparity in killer power and perks exist, I feel camping and tunneling happen frequently. I'd rather low tier killers get buffs and high tier killers get nerfs.
It honestly just depends on the team if they’re good than yeah play accordingly but most games in pubs aren’t like that so people saying they have to camp/tunnel every game is just a massive skill issue
This comment is so low mmr
@@averagedoomenjoyer1232 i think you need to get you’re eyes checked bub did you just not read my comment at all
The clear tajeaways are:
* Map matters A LOT.
* MMR matters A LOT.
* Good perks help but can't overcome maps for determination factor.
Overall it does speak volumes about how factors outside your control can determine how a match goes for most players with perks and power being the main way to take back control. I don't personally like how much map matters but it isn't too shocking that you can just win matches on MMR alone as it's terrible
"killers dont have to camp and tunnel" says top 1% of players
Well if you’re good, you don’t have to
Honestly I used to think yes but as of recently something has just clicked and i play my main killers extremely well. I think against swfs tunnelling and camping is needed but I would argue rarely in random public matches is it actually needed. Personally I think the camp/tunnel style comes from wanting to win rather than playing for fun and to improve. Ever since I started running huntress aura reading build I’ve fell back in love with the game. I think people just take it way too seriously now and streaks/challenges are often the cause of that too imo
My opinion before watching this: depends on the killer. Lately I've been playing wesker doing my damnedest to play him in a way I'd be fine going against instead of the Weskers i always get as survivor, who always hard tunnel, camp, ignore the unhooker, etc. I always try to twelve hook, and I've been doing pretty well, usually 2-4 kills
He's pretty strong and when played without camping/ tunneling he's pretty fun to play AGAINST as well. I don't know why people have to play like that with him
You can do that for a while until the higher MMR hits you like a rock and you get people who actually know how to counter him. That is what happened to me and I cant get any good games as him anymore without sweating, I just switched to another killer and started getting easier games again. Shame really because I liked playing as Wesker, all his techs make it really fun to speed around.
The problem is that most players are not "top players", they're casuals. That's the big "BUT": you cannot expect a high winning rate as player if you don't know how to play, so most people choose the easiest way: tunnel/camping
Being tunneled sucks, but i think steps could be taken to balance camping because some killer powers benefit from camping more than others, the hook grab going away for example was a positive step.
*hook grab at full health I mean
but then what do killers get in return? it’s just a nerf to killer with no compensation.
I got a hook trade really everytime so the removal of hook grabs didn't bother me.
@@theangriestcrusaderwho cares they are toxic anyway stop complaining
@@Metalmimikyu and that right there is how i know you’re the toxic one in every lobby.
It frustrates me to no end how 'high tier' killer players will equip Pop Goes The Weasel, use it once per match (if even that) and walk past an prime, supple, 80% generators the other ~11 times.
Knocking 10 seconds off a gen isn't really worth losing a chase over most of the time
So this proves the fact that if survivors had brains, mechanics, and SWFs it’s ok to tunnel, slug, camp etc
not if you play a killer that, you know.. uses their power, unlike in this video
I feel like this just proves the disparity in maps more than anything else
i feel like this mainly proved save the best for last as a perk is better than trapper's power lol, also getting someone out at 2 to 3 gens regardless how its done will increase your ability to win substantially which seemed obvious. it's also also pretty hard to judge what is happening because the video jumps around a lot. it goes from your first hook on someome else to suddenly bill has 2 hooks and I'm wondering what happened during a lot of those interactions throughout the video.
The thing about tunneling and camping is that it's "necessary" when playing against a 4-man comp squad. In your average public match of DBD, you don't really need to do it. You can freely 8 hook and generally AT LEAST get a 2k because of how less coordinated survivors tend to be easier targets (like solo q or just friend swfs). It's kinda funny, the survivors that are best equipped to deal with being tunneled or camped or w/e are the teams that it's more necessary against, while 4 solo players who can't really deal with tunneling too well because there's no actual coordination get completely destroyed by it sometimes.
I genuinely think BHVR should just add some indicator to the lobbies of who is queued together. Sure, more killers will dodge 4-mans but I think a lot won't and can adjust their "playstyle" accordingly. Not every 4-man SWF is a comp squad, which is the problem. Sometimes it's just 4 friends who all wanted to play DBD together and have fun.
Camping & tunneling is kind of a "crutch" for worse killers though. It's a VERY easy way to generate a lot of pressure on the survivors and force them to act, which can cause mistakes.
It's a shame that the devs caved into those wanting more balance for the game, making it far more competitive than it should have been which has further increased animosity towards both sides. Just saying there's both sides is pretty odd to me when I thought most of us played both sides, usually playing survivor or killer a little more than the other.
As I've stated before, if more people played survivor for perk value without prioritizing escaping and people playing killer didn't feel like they were entitled to a 4k at all costs, the game would feel far more chill. You can absolutely still enjoy killer when not camping/tunneling at 4-5 gens or slugging multiple people early on, can still win and have fun.
I don't usually play to escape I just do what I can while I can. Then I get matched up with killers that seemingly have anger towards survivors and decide to tunnel and camp and hit people on the hook.
Took a break and came back a week later. My first game on and the doc was camping my teammate who got hooked pretty quickly. I went to her and he was just hitting her on the hook. After that match I decided to Perma quit.
Sometimes camping for a moment is simply the best choise to make. If I know someone is near the hook waiting for me to leave I'm not going to just randomly walk around to allow free unhooking.
Imagine if survivors would have to for example stop doing gen if they see that killer is approaching to kick it. It's rude to finish gen infront of killer without giving them a chanse to stop it.
These honor rules really only go one way and only killer is expected to make game "fun" for other side.
This is less of a "Do Killers REALLY Have To Tunnel/Camp in DBD?" and more of a "Do killers REALLY Have To Use Their Power in DBD?"
Love your channel and streams. No disrespect intended. To make a fair assessment, I think you should play Trap-less Trapper against four survivors of your skill level (like a competitive team) and see how that goes. Having one of the best players in DBD pub-stomp isn't really comparable to an average killer who doesn't have 10,000 hours in the game trying to take out a team of decent survivors. It's similar to the people wanting to nerf Blight because this one player is so good he crushes everybody while the average Blight probably has far more issues during matches. Stategy and perks should be balanced on the average rather than the far extremes of the measuring stick. I look forward to your future vids.
I think the final conclusion here kind of buries the leed. A killer with 10,000 hours doesn’t need to camp, tunnel, or slug. Most killers don’t have that many hours in the game and most likely never will.
I don't know why you're implying that someone's skill continues to go up 10k hours in. DBD is not a deep or mechanically demanding game.
@@pukerat7562 With that statement i see you don't understand the game or play survivor
@@pukerat7562 At 10k hours you'll be able to instantly identify loops and their weaknesses and how to mindgame them and what can't be mindgamed and where to not waste your time and where to waste your time. Hens plays competitively, knows every perk instantly and knows how to play all around that at a moments notice.
99% of players don't have this information engrained into them.
Especially when half the teams were CLEARLY inexperienced. As usual for these kinds of tests, invalid, poor, or incomplete data.
you're interpreting it as some lofty amount of hours is the gate to not needing to camp and tunnel, which is wrong. the actual caveat to not needing to camp and tunnel is to simply be good at the game. dont need 10k hours to be good
"If you are good enough at playing killer" the burn lmao
I think the key thing to remember is how different people define the key terms being tested. There were multiple instances where people could argue you tunneled, camped, and/or slugged in this video. At the end of the day, you did an amazing job, but some people will still says it’s hard not to do those things to win depending on how they define them.
i feel like an element a lot of people have forgotten about dead by daylight is that it’s a video game, and that video games are supposed to be fun. i think on both sides, people need to stop tryharding as much.
i play both survivor and killer, and i notice that survivors only do gens, but this is the objective so there isn’t much else they actually have to do; but they also do this to avoid the 20 minute 3-gen+eruption+jolt+pain-res. that most killers run.
and killers counter the gen progress by camping and proxy-camping survivors on hook to make up for the lost time
TL;DR, the meta needs to change on both sides to make dead by daylight fun again
My question is: if you did the opposite of this and tunneled every game, how many games would you expect to lose? Because if tunneling is the most effective way to win games then the conversation isnt about *needing* to tunnel but more about "why would you do anything else?"
I agree. If someone's goal is efficiency, and slugging/tunneling/camping is more efficient than going for chases, then their obvious pick is slugging/tunneling/camping. This isn't a matter of "needing" to do something; rather, it's a desire to do something for more consistent results.
the only downside is no one will take you seriously for it, but if youre commiting to the rat strat, who cares
To have an enjoyable experience. Unless you're a streamer or something like that, DbD is not a job, it's a game. If you play ultra sweatlord, camping and tunneling every chance you get, you lose the main point of the game, which is to have fun.
11:10 Pour one out for the console homies who get cucked at vaults. This is why I always drop items away from vaults.
To address the crux of the issue tho, I only slug when there are survivors just following me around and meaning that I have to at least chase them off if not down them so I can pick up. For camping I just don't, plain and simple. It's a losing strategy unless the whole team of survivors are just way too altruistic for their own good. Tunneling I only do if I need a kill for pressure and it's getting down to the wire. I remember not finding survivors until I ran into a recently unhooked survivor so I slugged, but wasn't going to hook until two gens popped and it was suddenly one gen. Then I said, "well, sorry buddy, you were going to get spared."
Yeah, I can only imagine the disappointment console gamers feel when they try to heal and drop a pallet, or try to vault and pick up an item. It must be awful being punished by the game simply because you like console.
You said you weren't slugging, except to outplay flashlights, so you WERE slugging because you were forced to.
Exactly this!
Regardless of whether or not you "NEED" to camp, slug or tunnel, you always SHOULD do those things as a baseline when they are appropiate to the situation. If I have 2 people on the ground and 1 dead I would have to actively be trying to throw the match to not simply leave the two survivors slugged on the ground and go kill the third person if I can see them. Stopping to hook a survivor gives away the entire momentum of a match for literally 0 actual reason beyond " I wanna play nice ".
Conversely if its fucking end-game and I don't have an end-game build and the doors are powerd you bet your ass I am going to camp that person, leaving does literally nothing for me unless I have an insta-down and survivors don't have immediate resources to extend the chase. I already know where everyone is going to be at in end-game, either at the doors or more likely swarming the hook, me leaving does jack shit to help my chances at winning, i'm better of staying put and trying to snowball from where I am.
Finally, if I got 2 hook 4 people injured and one person on death hook and everyone else on 0-1 hook states, I would actively be throwing to not tunnel that hooked survivor out of the game. A 0-2 hooked survivor does literally everything just as fast as a survivor on death hook. The difference is if I kill the fucker who is on death hook its now a 3v1 match in which I am all but garanteed to win unless its like 1 generator remaining. Going for anyone else at that point does nothing to actually advance my goal and just lets them pressure me more effectively since they know they have hook states remaining to spare.
Obviously there is going to be allot of nuance to each situation, and sometimes it really is better to just cut your losses and not tunnel the mlg pro 3069 god tier looper who happens to be on death hook but its now also around a strong structure but in a good 90% of the cases choosing to tunnel them out is the correct choice.
Same thing for camping, if all 4 of them are bringing reassurance, kindred and comradaire, sure maybe camping probably isn't the best play but that isn't what your going to run into most matches, so camping a hook for 10 seconds to ensure someone either trades a hook state to stop the hooked person from going second stage is almost always worth it.
And yeah, if I am going up against 4 fucking no meither, unbreakable, plot twist, soul guard players, slugging probably isn't the play, but that again, isn't what your finding in 90%+ of your matches.
Camp, tunnel and slug every game as the default because doing so when appropriate IS THE CORRECT PLAY.
To add to what you said about “if you’re good enough” if you always rely on camping/tunneling how will you ever get better at killer? I feel like there are certainly times you need to use it strategically or when the match is almost over and you don’t really have many options.
LMAO at the end, he basically just tells killers to get good.
Brain pdead surv main
I wonder if people are willing to admit that they don't actually face that 1% of extremely strong swfs, I feel like so many people have convinced themselves that they do in order to play using those unnecessary playstyles. It's pretty unfortunate, more lax mindset from both survivors and killers would go a long way for the games health.
I think you’re kind of underestimating the other 99% of players. Truth of the matter is this game is growing. More people are starting to get better at this game. With videos on how to play survivor, which perks to use etc. etc. at this point, all you have to be is competent in order to be competitive.
@@TwintheCreator That's not entirely the case from what I've seen over the years of playing this game. The community is extremely casual, most people with the exception of a small handful don't stay around long enough to actually improve and then those that leave are simply replaced by more casual/newer gamers. Which proves further in my opinion that it's not necessary for the camping/tunneling and slugging playstyle for at least 95% of matches for those that are average to slightly above average as killer.
11:09 empty brown tool box in front of window.
Most OP anti chase mechanic against console gamers.
Now, with a well timed Franklin's demise, everybody can be Doctor!
it's impossible to win, streamers always face baby survivors that can't even loop.
these streamers from this thughouse - hens otz etc, are unethical af. They play 100 games, then nitpick and show on youtube the ones that fit their narrative
I think Otz will be very glad to see that trapper is actually very strong now. Even against good survivors. 🙂
Hens is just goated, trapper is still ass